S33 (7) 14 – The Name of the Doctor

[thommck @thommck]

I think I can prove* Clara isn’t a future Doctor and it’s quite obvious why not

Clara has seen all over the Doctor’s timeline so instead of her saying “I’ve seen all 11 of you” she would have been more likely to say, “I’ve seen me change into you!”

Also, she would have been affected the same way as the Doctor was by being so close to his timeline

(*as much as anyone can prove anything about this show!)

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@thommck – she can’t see the Doctor change into her if she’s only a potential Doctor – if her real job is to change his timeline so that he has a future (and not the Dark one). As I said above “If she doesn’t save ‘The Doctor’ she will never be born at all”.

Hence the Pinocchio reference – she’s not a real girl. She’s someone who can become a real girl. Right now she only exists as an echo of the possible future.

Unfortunately, what you’ve just ‘proved’ is that the show has to finish when Matt Smith leaves.

😀

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Anyway, another possibility is that Clara is an ‘echo’ of the Doctor – the light side  ‘echo’ to the Valeyard’s dark side. (Can’t remember who mentioned this, sorry).

Which would explain why the actress keeps ‘mirroring’ Matt Smith, but would more probably lead to a storyline resolution like the one for the Princess Astra fragment in Key To Time. Clara doesn’t fade back into the Doctor, she gets to stay ‘Clara Oswald’.

[PhileasF @phileasf]

And she might have seen herself in the timestream and not realised she was seeing the Doctor — she’d have thought she was seeing herself, now that she’s all scattered over the Doctor’s life.

[PhileasF @phileasf]

I know a lot of us have been thinking about the possible interpretations of the Whispermen’s verse (the last song in a season of songs).

The man who lies will lie no more
When he lies at Trenzalore.

Here’s my attempt to tease out a few interesting interpretations:

I’ll express my interpretations by paraphrasing the ‘lies’ in a way that removes the ambiguity.

Interpretation 1
The man who (tells) lies will (tell) lie(s) no more
When he lies (dead) at Trenzalore.

This seems to be the ‘obvious’ interpretation; that the Doctor is the man who lies, and he’ll stop telling lies when he’s dead.

Interpretation 2
The man who lies (dead) will lie (dead) no more
When he lies (dead) at Trenzalore.

Figuratively speaking, the Hurt Doctor could be said to lie in the Doctor’s tomb. So it could mean that the Hurt Doctor will be restored to life when the Doctor dies at Trenzalore.

Or ‘the man who lies (in the tomb)’ could just be ‘the Doctor’, not a specific incarnation: so it could mean that the Doctor won’t stay dead if he dies at Trenzalore.

Or everyone (at least every man) who’s buried at Trenzalore comes back to life. Trenzalore is the Planet of the Zombies! Unlikely… but it could be suitably cinematic for the 50th.

Interpretation 3
The man who lies (in this tomb) will lie (in this tomb) no more
When he (tells a) lie(s) at Trenzalore.

In this case, the Doctor (or the Hurt Doctor) will be restored to life when the Doctor (or the Hurt Doctor) tells a lie at Trenzalore. I suppose this would make sense if the Hurt Doctor somehow escaped by telling a lie.

If Clara has to save the Doctor, she might feel compelled to save the Hurt Doctor too, if he tells her he’s the Doctor (i.e. lies).

Interpretation 4
The man who (tells) lies will (tell) lie(s) no more
When he (tells a) lie(s) / or lies (dead) at Trenzalore.

However you interpret the last ‘lies’, this interpretation says the Doctor won’t be able to tell lies any more after this episode. This would seem far-fetched, but it could be consistent with Dorium’s ‘when no living creature may speak falsely’. It would also qualify as a game-changer :).

Or is it that the Doctor will stop telling a specific lie, about his past or his true identity or his name.

Interpretation 5
Forget about ‘lies’. Think about ‘The man’.  After the Doctor dies at Trenzalore, he won’t be a man who tells lies. He’ll be a woman.

[thommck @thommck]

@phileasf but she would have seen herself regenerate!
@bluesqueakpip I think I understand what you mean about her possibly being a future echo, I just think that may be one paradox too far!

[7thdoctor @7thdoctor]

well if im correct your not supposed to be able to lie on trenzalore so the doctor couldnt lie on trenzalore we mighteve been able to here his name if river hadnt have whispered it to open the tomb.

 

and also my wife thinks clara can be an echo from the doctors future but i disagree just like you thommk the paradox would be massive

[penny @penny]

Questions:

Does this mean that the Doctor will never have contact with River again?

More importantly, when the heck does River decide for herself that she wants to be with the Doctor?  None of the maps that show where their timelines intersect mention when River actually falls in love with the Doctor of her who free will.

[7thdoctor @7thdoctor]

i mean you can find a timelin video on youtube that explains there every meeting in chronological order

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@penny That may have been post-library River’s last appearance, but not necessarily. Much discussion about that earlier in this thread, if you want to check back. And plenty of dangling ends if any writer wants to pick her up from before the Library.

River and Dr’s relationship is never at a place where one meets the other for the first time without knowing that the other one means a lot to them in the future. (One of them always knows much more about their relationship/future than the other).  🙂

[Anonymous @]

@phileasf – I was thinking about doing just that, but you did a better job than I would have, so thank for the lies!  🙂

“Or is it that the Doctor will stop telling a specific lie, about his past or his true identity or his name.”

Or, that he’ll stop saying ‘This won’t hurt a bit’ right before doing something very painful?  😀

I like your interpretation 3:

The man who lies (in this tomb) will lie (in this tomb) no more
When he (tells a) lie(s) at Trenzalore.

If Clara has to save the Doctor, she might feel compelled to save the Hurt Doctor too, if he tells her he’s the Doctor (i.e. lies).

Clara fainted after seeing Hurt Doctor, and after hearing ‘he’s me’ from 11 … but she missed Hurt Doctor’s speech about doing what he had to do, and 11 saying that’s why you’re not The Doctor (heavily paraphrased).

I really hate the trope of fainting female*, and your 3rd interpretation sets up the tension for Clara in the 50th doing what she believes best … only for it to be the worst possible thing.

* ps:  yes, yes, she’d just been through an absolute wringer of a million fragmentations, so it’s not really a ‘weak female’ gesture.

[Anonymous @]

@7thdoctor – how many of those timeline videos [River’s linear life] that you speak of, incorporate the events of TNotD?

Because it has been posited here that the only time the Doctor would have / could have (cf. 10 in the Library) told River his real name, was when she was sealing up his tomb.  Which means, mirror-like, that not only did 10 witness River’s death in the Library – she also witnessed his death at some point we haven’t seen.

I’m a sucker for cerebral sentiment* and that theory sounded wonderful to me.  I admit it’s hard to shoe-horn in logically, remembering that she had her first inkling in the Library that hers and the Doctor’s timelines weren’t running synchronously; and surely she would have expressed surprise at seeing him alive — not saying ‘Hello, Sweetie’ with a twinkle in her eye?

Unless it’s the utterly unflappable River we’re talking about, who could take a real-live Doctor in front of her after sealing him in his own tomb utterly in her stride, and with a cheeky ‘Spoilers!’.

Unless, her sealing him up at Trenzalore happens after she’s in the Library but before TNotD.

* yeah, yeah, it’s an oxymoron at first sight.  But think about it – Doctor Who (the programme) practically demands cerebral sentiment.  🙂

[penny @penny]

@scaryb

Not necessarily, because we know from the mini episodes that Eleven is the face that says goodbye to River Song forever.  So River’s stories on screen will have to end before they recast Matt Smith.

[Anonymous @]

@phileasf — good work on Trenzalore interpretations. I think I like number 2 the best…

[7thdoctor @7thdoctor]

@Shazzbot–

true very true however im thinking that it waits for us in the future , i mean thew will show the rest of river songs story, maybe not in chronological order however we know they love throwing us all for a loop.

[brotherjohn @brotherjohn]

I don’t have access to my DVR right now, but if I’m not mistaken, isn’t the Whisper rhyme:

“The man who lies will lie no more,

When THIS MAN lies at Trenzalore.”?? (not “when he”)

Maybe I’m wrong.  Anyone??

If it’s “he”, it strongly implies it’s the same man in both lines.

If it’s “this man”, it strongly implies they’re different men.

If the latter, my interpretation is this:

The man who lies will lie no more = The Hurt Doctor (the “man who lies” as in sleeps) will be “awakened/released/set free” to cause whatever havoc he will cause.

When this man lies at Trenzalore = When the Doctor tells a lie at Trenzalore.

This would be a deviation from everyone thinking he needed to tell the truth/say his name to open the Tardis.  Perhaps what causes the problem is his lying, as he has arguably already done to Clara in his timestream (That IS The Doctor, he just can’t face it.).

Some of you have already posed the possibilities of his lying here, and throughout his life, about the true nature of who he is.

I don’t know; perhaps I’m wrong about the language.

But even if it’s as @phileasf quotes above (good theorizing BTW), I think Interpretation 3 is close to mine above.  I see now that some of his interpretations assume 2 different “men”…  but not Interp 3.  However, if Interp 3 is true and someone else lies to free the “laying (Hurt) Doctor”, that could just as easily be “The Doctor” (Smith).

[Anonymous @]

Ooooh, good catch @brotherjohn – the episode is still available on BBC iPlayer and obvs I need to watch again.  (not a chore, believe me!)

However, let’s invert your little gem of a comment, just as a game:

The  real Doctor ‘lies’ at Trenzalore, in that his timestream is trapped in the dying Tardis there.  And it’s the Hurt Doctor who ‘lies’ (as in tells a massive fib) at Trenzalore – perhaps by telling Clara he needs to get out, and Clara believes that, since it’s really the Doctor – he was in the Doctor’s timestream, after all – she facilitates that?

Yay!  My new favourite theory – Clara in the 50th does what she believes best (mirroring the only thing we currently know about the Hurt Doctor), only for it to be the worst possible thing –  is still alive.  🙂   Because this ties in with my misgivings that perhaps every clean-up job she did after the GI in the Doctor’s timestream, didn’t perhaps go as well as she wanted / it could do …

[brotherjohn @brotherjohn]

@Shazzbot – Yeah, go ahead and flip things again so my brain can hurt even MORE! 🙂 (it already feels like a pancake)

[7thdoctor @7thdoctor]

agreed , but that is why one falls in love with the doctor……..the timiey wimey wibbly wobbly of his own stream

ALLONS-Y

[Anonymous @]

@brotherjohn – as our (don’t blink!) friend @scaryb always says, it’s a hive mind here.  The most entertaining thing about this website, for me, is seeing people riff off other people’s theories, debunking them, teasing them out further, adding interesting details (like @bluesqueakpip ‘s ‘trenza = braid of three’), adding input from their encyclopaedic knowledge of the show and its various alternate media offshoots, and generally having a good time flipping our brains like pancakes.

Me?  I’ve held 15 definite views a day – all of them contradicting each other, and some of them at the same time! – which is confusing but satisfying.  I guess that is what marks out a certain kind of DW theorist – we don’t care if our minds explode, as long as the resulting explosion leaves other people wondering ‘was that one mind or three?  or two minds splitting in half?  and what does that fish-in-a-bathtub painted into the lower-left corner REALLY mean?!?’  😀

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Clara fainted after seeing Hurt Doctor, and after hearing ‘he’s me’ from 11

@Shazzbot – not quite. She faints at a much more interesting moment – on hearing 11 say “he’s the one who broke the promise.”

I really must start making a list of where and when Clara faints. 😀

[Anonymous @]

@bluesqueakpip – I told brotherjohn I need to (aww, heck, ‘have been looking for another excuse to!) rewatch TNotD to pick up those pertinent details.

But speaking of Clara fainting … I can only remember Cold War and that distinctly odd black-out moment under water, which might also merit a re-watch to see exactly what was being said pre- and post- .

And if Clara fainted in TNotD when you say – ‘He’s the one who broke the promise’ – then my much-liked Theory of the Day is in tatters.  (But wouldn’t it be fantastic mirroring if Clara went on to do what Hurt Doctor has already confessed to doing – and what 11 has already soundly denounced him for doing?  What a conundrum for 11 — empathy for one but not the other?)

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@brotherjohn – yes.

• This man must fall as all men must
• The fate of all is always dust.
• The man who lies will lie no more
• When this man lies at Trenzalore. 
• The girl who died he tried to save
• She’ll die again inside his grave.

Cheery bunch, aren’t they? But it’s an interesting set of lines.

[Anonymous @]

Well, @bluesqueakpip, having been occupied elsewhere, I now see you’ve done my homework.  (Is it a bob, or a satsuma, you require?)  🙂

That last couplet:

• The girl who died he tried to save
• She’ll die again inside his grave.

So, Clara? It’s back to that parsing, again.  As of the end of TNotD, he tried to save Clara, who obviously has died millions of times.  We still don’t know what happens next.

Ol’ sentimental me, I immediately thought ‘River’.  10 ‘saved’ her in the Library, and she died again, in the dying Tardis – the Doctor’s grave – a dying of the hope of ever seeing him again, albeit knowing  (not that she’d ever show it, mind) that she would die happy here, inside his grave, with the goodbye she always wanted.  {sniff}

 

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@Shazzbot – I wouldn’t go for River, simply because the couplet says ‘girl’. River isn’t a girl – she’s a woman, a married woman. And it’s fairly easy to substitute words that would still keep the rhythm: “His wife who died he tried to save/she’ll die again inside his grave.”

 

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@Shazzbot

what does that fish-in-a-bathtub painted into the lower-left corner REALLY mean?!?

what fish…??? dammit I missed that!!

😉

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@bluesqueakpip

Nice work – and love the bullet points 🙂

So, thoughts on

The girl who died he tried to save, She’ll die again inside his grave?

Is that just a threat/doomy forecast or was Clara meant to die from eg jumping in the timestream The fact that (we hope) she hasn’t – does that change anything?

Or could it be about Jenny? She died, killed by the GI, which is why we’re at Trenzalore – the Dr trying to save her (although it’s Strax who actually does). She then dies after the GI jumps into the timestream which is presumably what he planned in luring the Dr to Trenzalor. (Jenny being collateral damage from the GI changing all the Dr’s victories to defeats). The rhyme doesn’t say that she was saved again, because the GI didn’t predict Clara undoing all the damage he does.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@scaryb

I’d definitely go for Clara: simply because she’s the only female person on-screen at the time that couplet is spoken/hissed. 🙂

Okay, so: possibilities: 1/It’s meant to be simply a threat. The whole set of couplets are threats, not meant as prophecy.

2/They’re prophecies. In which case, they have multiple meanings.

This man must fall as all men must/the fate of all is always dust.

That’s fairly straightforward in a sense: Eleven will die. Everyone does. After all, he’s looking at his own grave. 🙂

But it could also mean ‘fall’ in a different sense; be defeated – death as a defeat. So we’re back to ‘The Doctor must die’ again; basically the theme of the episode. Everyone must die. Everyone does die. The only person who makes it through the episode without dying/being in their grave is Madame Vastra – and that’s probably because somebody had to carry the exposition.

But everyone who dies in this episode – doesn’t stay dead. They may be ‘dust’, but this episode contains the liveliest set of ghosts in existence; practically a haunted house party.

River’s playing an active part, Jenny is brought back twice, Strax comes back when the timeline is mended, and the Great Intelligence lives on in terms of his effect on the Doctor’s timeline. Clara dies a million times: but is still alive at the end of the episode. If unconscious.

Death is death – but it’s not necessarily a defeat. That’s one of Steven Moffat’s constant themes; everyone dies – but that doesn’t mean everyone loses. Those who die become memories, stories – and if that story is a good one, it’s a victory, not a defeat.

We’re back to rebirth again. The Doctor dies: and comes back to life. The clock ticks over from Twelve (who may be The Doctor Currently Known As Eleven), but doesn’t reach Thirteen. It resets to One.

[Whisht @whisht]

blimey – lots of great theories! Thanks everyone!

Loving the idea(s) that the Hurt Doctor started the War in the name of sanity (just how mad was time-travel and the Timelords getting??!??), and that Clara releases him by mistake.

[sigh], I could do with an army, a sprinkle, a dusting of Claras to tidy up my life.

Would these splintered Claras be “Claricles”?

I was thinking of snow, and stories. (and Claraflakes sounds like a cereal).

And if they are, can anyone spare a few to solve/keep tally of all the bonkers theories??

;¬)

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@brotherjohn Thanks for pulling apart my theory 😀

You are right, of course, it is open to interpretation. I am still not convinced that at that point “no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer”. It seems only the Doctor could not speak falsely or fail to give an answer, but only if he wanted to protect his friends. He could have let them die, and actually did seem to be choosing them dying over saying his name. Dark, dark Doctor!

I am going to go on record as thinking that this is what is going on/will happen:

I think Hurt is between 8 and 9, but because of starting the Time War, ending the Time War, or his actions during it, he is not considered the Doctor. He is no 4th Doctor, he has no conscience when it comes to wiping out the Daleks (and the Time Lords).

I think Hurt will be considered the 9th Doctor by the end of the 50th though – redeemed somehow.

I think the tomb we’ve seen on Trenzalore is therefore Tennant’s Doctor’s, as he is now the 11th. That would explain why we only see 10 Doctors plus Hurt in his timestream (Smith’s Doctor was not in the timestream). And Tennant’s Doctor was the only one not running about – he was in The Library, at rest, so to speak…

One problem is the TARDIS tomb had the same cracked window as Smith’s, and they made a bit of a deal about that. Perhaps Smith and Tennant swap TARDISes?

As for the story, I think it has to involve the events of the Time War and the battle at Trenzalor where Tennant’s Doctor will die to save Smith’s Doctor. Can he do that and still have regenerated into Smith? Who knows? I just don’t think Moffat will make it canon that The Doctor has to die at Trenzalor, it’s too restricting for future writers. I think it is a tomb that will be shown not to be the FINAL resting place of The Doctor, just one of what will become one of his many resting places.

But then there are Zygons in it, how do they fit in? I have no idea yet. 😀

[budinacup @budinacup]

@craig  Zygons??????????????  SPOILERS!!!!!!! THANKS FOR THAT!

[SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe]

Zygons? Never heard of them. I predict they’ll somehow help the Doctor out of the timestream using Nessie. Does it matter that they seem to be enemies?

[Whisht @whisht]

Hi @budinacup – apologies on @craig‘s behalf, but there were lots of speculation although also one of us here (I may be wrong but perhaps Bluesqueakpip or ScaryB) suggested that they’re the easiest misdirection that the production team could use to confuse speculators (even bonkers ones like us).

or especially bonkers ones like us (who still think Ganger Doctor is on the prowl).

Its all speculation as we haven’t seen the episode yet and Moff may be misdirecting.

So – shall we keep this thread entirely devoid of press clippings, Film set photos, BBC postings, interview-watching speculation, etc and only for bonkers speculation?

even if we think everyone must have seen [thing we’ve seen no matter how media pervasive as others live in other countries].

please?

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@budinacup Apologies, I’m not one for spoilers either. In my defence it was properly, officially announced on the BBC website and The Radio Times website (with pictures) so, within our unofficial rules, is no longer counted as a spoiler.

However, if it makes you feel better, I have a sneaking suspicion that it may be a slight-of-hand and that they released pics of a Zygon just to make us think they would be the main focus. They may just be in it in passing, just like all the Doctors in the finale were.

[Whisht @whisht]

and the note above gives me the pleasure of posting on the Music thread.

I mean, how else can I tell Craig he’s Modded?

;¬)

[budinacup @budinacup]

@satsumajoe they are shape shifting power mad aliens from the 4th doctor.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@whisht

@bluesqueakpip , who has more experience of running a forum than me, suggested that the rules should be that if it has been on the BBC’s site or The Radio Times (basically the BBC’s magazine) Moffat is happy for it to be released, as he is a control freak, and so should not count as a spoiler. I guess then it is more of a teaser.

If it comes from some dark corner of the internet, then it should go on the Spoilers thread.

I think keeping this thread free of even official BBC postings is unrealistic, but perhaps I should have thought twice. I assumed everyone on here would also be interested in official Doctor Who news. My bad 🙁

(But like you I think it is misdirection, that was kinda implied in a “How do they fit in?” way.)

[budinacup @budinacup]

@whisht @craig I hate spoilers and try to avoid them at all costs but have never counted trailers or “Next time” bits as such…………. until i came on here and made the mistake of mentioning a trailer…Argh. as such i am now just about the bonkers speculation in here. and lets face it, looking through this thread, there is some bonkers stuff going on 🙂

Baths overflowing with fishes!

1. Will we find out the Doctors real name?

2. Where does Hurt doc fit in?

3. What will the theme of the 50th be?

your thoughts please

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@whisht

LMAO @craig being modded 😆

Am probably one of the most paranoid on here re spoilers, but even I accept that there are some things I’m not going to be able to avoid before Nov. Zygons being one of them. Hurt in whatever costume it is that seemingly drops big hints about which where he fits in (but I’m still trying with that one 😉 ).

Having watched the trailers for NiS and NotD retrospectively, I’m glad I didn’t see them before.

Apologies @budinacup – there was a widespread discussion on here about Zygons a month or so back, which is why they slipped through – or they were disguised as a member! Damn sneaky things. But if they’re being dropped in this early (and they were practically being flown from the rooftops with a big sign on them by the official channels), especially with their back story, I do suspect misdirection. But I’ve been known to be wrong! Many times  🙂

PS No time just now, but will get back re your list (@craig – any concensus on opening  new 50th thread or staying on here?). Fellow angel, you know my thoughts on the first 2 🙂

 

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@craig (stuff the business end – back to theories 🙂 )

One problem is the TARDIS tomb had the same cracked window as Smith’s, and they made a bit of a deal about that. Perhaps Smith and Tennant swap TARDISes?

Tardis could def be significant in light of other suggestions re the makeover not being mentioned, the Tardis’s poss odd behaviour in RoA and this, as you point out.  Where does the spare Tardis come from?

Or HurtDr is rehabilitated and forgiven by dying @ Trenzalore? (oops, but then we’ve got a non-regenerated Nine (or whoever comes after))

[SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe]

@budinacup Thanks. Yeah, sorry, the thing about that ‘trailer’ was the Silence mention. They’ve been such an integral part of the Eleventh’s tenure, you see, and have been out of sight – whether defeated or gone to ground – for some time. That was my reasoning behind spoiler query. Kneejerk reaction before considering (read: having pointed out) it was likely much too early for such things but you never know in the circumstances. Probably. Then came the other reflex of slapping my own face.

Other ‘enemies’ are much more ambiguous, especially if they’ve not appeared in the show for a ridiculous amount of time. Like Zygons. Personally, the Ice Warriors also fit that description. I knew one was in Cold War but not the context beyond ‘classic monster returns’.  The drawback/benefit of only seeing from Nine on?

Now, jammie dodger?

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@scaryb Yeah, I’m modded 😀 Yeah!!!! It had to happen sometime.

I think I will be opening a fresh 50th thread sometime this weekend, have quite a bit of work to do on the site as the suggestions have been coming thick and fast.

I also saw your post re a poll. Have added it to my ever growing list! 😕

It will happen… eventually.

[budinacup @budinacup]

@satsumajoe I prefer just taking bonkers theories anyway 😉

So long to wait before we find out what SM has in store for us it may just make my head explode like 1,2,3,4? TARDIS,TARDISIES, TARDII! (im going with 1 singular TARDIS)

Night all.

 

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@scaryb We’ve just seen that two TARDISes (supposedly the same TARDIS) can be on the same battlefield in the same time (although one was dying/a tomb). Smith’s Doctor and Tennant’s Doctor both come with a TARDIS. Hurt may come with one too.

I did come up with an alternative theory that Hurt Doctor sacrifices himself at Trenzalor, redeeming himself, but then how could he be the Eleventh who falls? He would need to be between 10 and 11, unless they discover there were maybe two Doctors before Hartnell? Or maybe the fall of the Eleventh really is Moffat’s joke about not jumping but falling – but how that would make it into a prophecy is questionable as it was just a passing line, and as there was a big tomb there containing The Doctor that would probably be more the focus of any prophecy (Occam’s Razor and all that).

[SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe]

Oh, back to theories, what happened to the ‘cameos’ for past Doctors? Did that run throughout this half of the series?

[Whisht @whisht]

Hey (oi) @craig – thing about a Modded – you have to listen and reply!

;¬)

Mind you, you could also point your ring at me*.

[ahem]

.

.

.

*that’s a movie ref. honest.

[WhoHar @whohar]

@bluesqueakpip @jimthefish @scaryb

Bluntwin Hootwhistle

If that character does appear in the next series of DW, then we’ll deifnitely know the Moff’s been on these boards.

[WhoHar @whohar]

There were alot of references to dust in this ep, which brings me back to:

crimson eleven delight petrichor

Well, we’ve had Crimson (Horror), Eleven (Hurt / Tennant / Smith), Petrichor (dust) – any mention of Delight?

I keep thinking of Angel Delight but can’t get that into the show (yet).

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@whohar – Petrichor isn’t dust. Petrichor is rain on dust; the smell of the rain after the drought.

I agree that the Doctor’s time-stream is full of dust. Clouds of dust, in fact. If the only water in the forest is the River, the Doctor’s time-stream is a place where it’s very apparent that the River has died.

Zygons are on the Official BBC Doctor Who site as appearing in the 50th, so do count as a ‘teaser’ rather than a spoiler – though yes, I am one of the people who suggested that their real purpose is to ensure that we can’t be sure any character appearing in a ‘spoiler’ photo is actually that character. It could be a Zygon in shape-shifted mode.

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@Bluesqueakpip Thanks! I always wondered if a name for that existed. Is it a very common word in English? I love learning new (certain) stuff!

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