73 Yards

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  • #76163
    TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit

    I was quite worried about this episode as soon as I heard the title was “73 Yards”. I wondered if it meant 73 back yards. I didn’t think it was referring to the antique measurement of length.

    Unforunately, my fears were confirmed while watching the episode. Ruby said that the woman kept her distance at 73 yards away from her!

    Even though Star Trek TOS was made in the USA by US companies, written by Americans, and shown on NBC, they used Metric measurements, although they sometimes used measurements of a system based on but not officially British measurements or Imperial measurements. I have heard these called “US Customary Measurements” and “The English System”. The units of distance have names including Feet, Yards, and Miles. These had been phased out by the time of Star Trek: TNG, though.

    I don’t understand why Doctor Who has decided to re introduce these measurements!

    This episode reminded me of the RTD series “Years and Years”.

    Apart from the serious crime of using antique measurements, I didn’t like this episode that much, for the following reasons.

    1. The Doctor hardly appeared at all, apart from at the beginning and at the end. I don’t think anything like this has happened since the episode “Love & Monsters”, or a few indivual episodes of multi part stories in the classic series. There were some episodes where The Doctor didn’t appear, because the actor was on holiday. The only classic series story where The Doctor didn’t appear was “Mission to The Unknown”, though.

    2.  In 2046 Ruby says she wants to donate £1,000 to the Albion Party. I wonder how little £1,000 would be worth in 2046? Perhaps inflation has been reversed or the Pound has been revalued, but this isn’t explained. As a fairy circle about “Mad Jack”, which it seems means the Prime Minister Roger Ap Williams, is already there at the beginning of the episode, it sounds like it’s set in or after 2046. A Coke in the pub costs £5. However, when Ruby goes home from the pub it looks like she’s in 2024, or possibly 2025, because I’m not sure how long she’s been away from home.

    3. For part of the episode, including on the Football pitch near the end, I think Ruby is wearing 1970’s style clothes. Why is this?

     

     

    #76293
    VickyMallard @vickymallard

    And straight into the next one. I loved it! Although I’m still not sure what actually happened. If I understood it correctly, the woman who stays 73 yards away from Ruby is her own older self. Or her ghost, after dying? And the reason she was there was to stop the Doctor stepping on that fairy ring setting free (?) Mad Jack. Who then became the most dangeours Prime Minister. Which the Doctor remembers, but nevertheless vanishes. But why did he vanish? I mean, if he does remember that very dangerous PM, then he obviously survived meeting him. Oh well, maybe he got erased from the timeline at a later point. Timetravel gives me headaches, really.

    Anyway, I liked Ruby’s story and desperation (yes, I do like a good whump) when everyone turned away from her after coming into contact with the mysterious woman. And Katherine Lethbridge Steward was back, I loved that!

    I also loved that Ruby comes back to visit the Tardis, which (who?) is still standing on that clifftop. Overgrown and dead, or at least seemingly dead, but people bring flowers there even if they don’t know why. A dead Tardis is really such a heartbreaking sight, like lost hope. Although in this episode, I wasn’t really sure whether the Tardis was really dead, it felt like a dog lying on their master’s grave waiting for him to return.

    So, it was sort of a weird episode, but I loved it! (And I really need to go on holiday to Wales, I think. I’ve never been there!)

    #76315
    bunface @bunface

    A dead Tardis is really such a heartbreaking sight, like lost hope. Although in this episode, I wasn’t really sure whether the Tardis was really dead, it felt like a dog lying on their master’s grave waiting for him to return.

    Aww, @vickymallard, that’s both lovely and awful! But so true…

    A ghostly TARDIS is right, though, for what’s coming…

    #76583
    TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit

    I really liked this episode! A few things weren’t explained though. Why did The Doctor have to disappear? What year was it at the beginning of the episode? It seems like it was after 2046, because of the fairy circle notes mentioning “Mad Jack”. Also £5 for a Coke in a pub is more expensive than in 2024. If it was after 2046, then how could Ruby travel back home by train and find her Mum there to welcome her back? It looked like 2024. Another point about money is how much were Ruby’s savings of £1,000 worth in 2046 when she donated them to the Albion Party?

    Of course, we never found out what the future version of Ruby was saying to everone which made them run away screaming. I think it coud have been something like “I’ve got a disease that made me very elderly and forced me to haunt my younger self over there. Run away now, before you catch it!”

     

     

     

     

    #76776
    robink2567 @robink2567

    Wasn’t this episode good? Maybe my all time favourite who.

    I’ve a bonkers theory that it’s a scifi explanation rather than supernatural….

    Breaking the fairy ring throws the perception filter in Ruby’s tardis key into reverse.  The Doctor is rerendered (from Ruby’s perspective) an unapproachable figure, a caricature of Welsh folklore. Ruby is suddenly very noticeable and out of place. People notice her clothing and are hostile towards her. When people stand at the edge of the filter and look back at Ruby, they perceive her as whatever is most noticeable for them – Sue Twist sees right through the 4th wall, Gwilliam sees a super powerful entity.

    D15 can’t time travel back into his own timeline, and the sonic doesn’t work on rope. His only hope is for Ruby to change her memory of when she encountered the woman, distracting himself from breaking the ring, and collapsing the paradox with just an echo. All he can do is keep waiting, Ruby’s whole life. As she dies, the filter collapses and she finally understands who the woman is.

    I love all the different interpretations of the ep, it makes it so special. Love to know what you think of this take.

    #76873
    robink2567 @robink2567

    Extended bonkers theory…

    The Tardis lands on a cliff edge, teetering between land and sea, next to a sign in Welsh and English: Perygl! Camwch yn ôl! Llwybr yr Arfordir ar gau oherwydd erydiad. Dargyfeirio: troi i’r chwith Danger! Step back! Coastal Path closed due to erosion. Diversion: turn right

    The diversion has been mistranslated – ‘turn right’ in English, ‘turn left’ in Welsh – and that unresolvable discrepancy flummoxes the Tardis translation circuits, and she renders it for her passengers as something that ‘fits’ with her locality, and knowledge of local lore – a fairy ring, a circular paradox between turning left and right.

    I’ve no supporting evidence for this, it’s purely conjecture. Turn left/right obviously from the similar Doctor-lite episode that Donna experienced. There’s real-life incidences of turn left being ‘mistranslated’ on Welsh signs, something that would resonate with Welsh viewers (in line with the series dog whistles theme). Diversion from the old joke about the name of a Welsh sign-writer. Coastal erosion is both topical, and links in with the nod to  TWBTLATS. Step back! the phrase whispered as a warning in the misremembered second iteration of the loop. It all has just the right amount of silly, self-referential in jokes that RTD might just have concocted.

    #76902
    robink2567 @robink2567

    just realised that the ap Gwillion stuff is a big old pointer to The Sound of Drums/Last of the time lords, where it was established that tardis keys have an associated perception filter.

    #76990
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Well that was different.

    First, no opening titles? Or did I just miss them? Is there any significance to this?

    Second, no Doctor (for most of it). No offence to the Doctor, but the story was well enough written to keep my interest without him.

    Third, what did we just watch? It was *good*, but completely baffling. Who was the woman? – future old Ruby frozen in time? Don’t know. And possibly more significant – *what* did she say to everyone that made them run away from Ruby in terror (except Roger ap H-bomb who just – resigned)? Why was his reaction different?

    And of course there was a bloody huge Reset button at the end.

    So many questions, so much unexplained. Normally the number of unexplained bits would really bother me (see my comments on Kill the Moon for just how much gratuitously breaking physical laws wholesale bugs me!), but somehow in this – more mystical – story, it didn’t matter.

    Tough luck on Ruby, who had to live a solitary life – not without romance, but without any permanent attachments because the 73 yard woman was so distracting.    I have noticed (in retrospect) that 73 yard woman only gave the horror treatment to people who Ruby had pointed her out to.   She left Ruby’s other acquaintances and passing romances alone.

    I’d rank this up with Boom.   A vast improvement on earlier episodes, and (I hope) promising for the rest of the season.

    #76991
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Further conjecture:    Why 73 yards? Did ’73’ have any significance as a number?
    219 feet, 66.7 metres (as the episode told us). 66.7512 metres, to be precise. Actually, rounding, that’d be 66.8 metres.
    But I can’t make anything of it. If it was 66.6 feet it would be the ‘mark of the beast’ or somesuch but it ain’t.
    So I’m sure the ’73’ must mean something but I can’t guess what. It’s prime, but so are (mumble mumble) 23 other numbers under 100. So I dunno.
    And (contra TranslatorCircuit) I can’t see any significance in using yards rather than metres either. Britain still uses miles and mph for large distances, metres and millimetres and feet and inches for short ones. Also, buying petrol in litres but the trip computer in my little Toyota Aygo rental proudly showed 56 miles per gallon. It’s somehow gloriously British to be using two incompatible systems at one and the same time.

    #76992
    ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u

    @dentarthurdent

    according to Perkins in Mummy on the Orient Express, 66 seconds is ‘about’ as long as it takes to change the phase of matter. So a meter per second means… what? Dunno.

    73 yards cropped up again in the ‘time window’ and was one of my least favourite things in Legend of Ruby Sunday which, after all, was not a terribly impressive episode.

    I did start watching this again… got as far as ‘look at the state on THAT’ in the pub. That was quite droll. I kept expecting Nardole to turn up as Dewi from Little Britain.

    I wondered about Glengatwg and why Roger ap Williams should sport a full on (Norman) Welsh name… admittedly the leader of Plaid Cymru does, but you would think there was a reason RTD chose it.

    2 possibilities…

    he is famous spear son of ambition hat = Rassilon in full regalia??

    or narratively he is the equivalent of Harold Saxon (= major knife boy… oh never mind), the guy who assembled a planet full of missiles and who RTD hinted was as big an abuser as Rog…

    Will enjoy finishing the story tonight!

     

     

    #76993
    robink2567 @robink2567

    “73 Yards” is significant. It’s rather clever because it’s a huge clue to what’s going on in the episode. But it’s the unit rather than the distance that’s the clue, that this is all about a perception filter gone on the fritz.

    Normally the tardis/ tardis key perception filter is all about blending in, making the subject less noticeable and translating local languages. But Ruby suddenly stands out – the hiker comments on her clothes being unsuitable, the friendly locals at the pub treat her with hostility because she stands out, the price of coke is expensive, the pub sign is in Welsh.

    Somebody of Ruby’s age would use metric for short distances. Using yards, and using it as the title, is such a great hidden-in-plain-sight clue, very cheeky, RTD at his best.

    #76994
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @robink2567     Good point about the perception filter.   I’ve just realised that explains why 73 yard woman only terrorised people who Ruby had pointed her out to.   The rest just didn’t notice her (the woman) because of the filter.   I’m very slow sometimes.

    I’ll take your word for it that young people (in Britain) would use metres rather than yards, I can’t judge as I live in New Zealand.   But I know that, for greater distances, it’s miles, as every road sign will confirm.   🙂

    The perception filter being attached to Ruby’s Tardis key (and malfunctioning) – that works.    I wondered if 73 Yard woman was just a hologram generated by [something attached to] Ruby e.g. the perception filter.   And the filter would have been pre-programmed by the mystical forces of the broken fairy ring to target Roger ap H-bomb.

    OR, she could be the Doctor, trapped by the mystical powers of the fairy ring and unable to do anything but watch (until his chance came to terrorise Roger ap H-bomb, which would be entirely consistent with his history of saving the Earth from itself).   But I don’t think the Doctor would deliberately cause a split between Ruby and her mother, so I think that theory is ruled out.

    Probably all this has been exhaustively discussed in this thread, which I’ve only just skimmed through.

    #76995
    ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u

    @dentarthurdent @robink2567

    oh… so the perception filter is mentioned in Sound of Drums and that’s also where we first realise who Saxon is… the man who’s moniker (and behaviour) is reflected in Rog Williamson.

    Makes me wonder who Alien Life Form Garnett might be.

    #76997
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @ps1l0v3y0u     You said (on 25th May)    “I saw a transcription somewhere on the web but can I get it back???”

    (See, I do read a lot of these threads!)

    Might that have been on Chrissie’s transcripts site at  Chakoteya.net?   (It’s the only one I know of)

    #76999
    ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u

    @dentarthurdent

    The considered opinion seems to be it’s neither BSL nor ASL. You mentioned Python starting on 5th October, could be semaphore??? Though without the flags. As in the Wuthering Heights sketch. Or the cover of HELP (The Beatles)…

    nearly finished 73 yards. Keep getting interrupted. Still no insight as to what the woman means… could she represent the ‘untempered schism’, a reflection of the torment visited on Harold Saxon?? I’m really liking that connection, but then ‘famous spear ambition hat’ was also cool.

    Can’t have both… though Saxon’s torment was visited on him by Rassilon.

    #77000
    robink2567 @robink2567

    @dentarthurdent yeah metric for short distances, imperial for long distances! Petrol in litres and gallons. It’s bonkers!

    My theory is The Woman is the Doctor. The perception filter is working in reverse, so as well as Ruby being conspicuous, things appear warped to Ruby. So the Tardis, which she sees as full of life, excitement and escape, appears lifeless. She sees the Doctor as a close friend, so he’s always depicted to Ruby as distant – at the furthest of the perception filter’s range (73 yards). He’s rendered as a spooky hag because it’s gone for something it thinks fits it with the Welsh location.

    Who’s perception filters seem to be psychic rather than holograms and act both on the person at the centre of the field, and everybody within it’s range.

    I’m also speculating that fairy ring isn’t mystical, or even a fairy ring. It’s a sign, written in Welsh and English warning of the danger of the cliffs. It says something like “Danger, step back from the cliff edge. Costal path closed due to erosion. Diversion, Turn Right” In Welsh the sign reads almost the same, but it’s mistranslated and says ‘Turn left’ instead. The paradox of one sign pointing in two directions confuses the perception filter so much it starts playing up.

    @ps1l0v3y0u yes, there’s a nice call-back to Sound of Drums, which introduced perception filters based on tardis keys, and the ap Gwilliam sub-plot.  There’s a Dafydd ap Gwilym in Welsh history, he was a poet who recorded lots of Welsh folklore, the Triads. Triads is an anagram of Tardis, which is a nice coincidence.

    #77002
    ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u

    @robink2567 @dentarthurdent

    ok… finished it… there is a contrast in this Who reboot… RTD2 if you like… and previous nuwho, certainly the quite four square exposition of series 1-4.

    How much of the information is there to throw us off I’m not sure but, until the strange and apparently unsatisfactory resurrection of Sutekh, each story echoed Russ and Moff’s greatest hits. Splice might even be a nod to Zchib’s definitive if risible work.

    73 yards, with Boom and Dot & Bubble are the strongest episodes. It doesn’t need saying that 73 yard is intensely mysterious. What the hell has happened to The Doctor? Who is the witch woman and what does she say. What exactly was released from the fairy circle?

    Kate’s perception filter info dump may be key because it links this story firmly to Utopia, Drums, &  Last of the Time Lords. The Doctor unwittingly resurrects Yana/Jack, the Tardis is lost, Saxon/Rog obtains an arsenal and is then defeated by Martha/Ruby.

    Lots of nice touches. The pub is hilarious. Clara’s side eye from the taxi is chilling. The witch in Old Ruby’s bedroom is David Bowman at the end of 2001 space odyssey. Not sure why Ruby should choose to eschew boats and planes in that the witch is ignored unless Ruby introduces her. Over thought, or did some element not survive the final edit?

    The question is… what is the design behind this design? And wherefor Sutekh, who was NEVER the messiah or a god, but a very very crazy alien. Stuck in a time corridor. Not forever. Just til he died.

    You would think reality is being replayed and distorted… but why do that? To extract information from the Doctor Confession Dial stylee? A bit like old Ruby living out her life to warn young ruby, but without the wall of impossibly hard stuff, impossibly worn away by much softer stuff.

    You see, I’m not sure these are tropes exactly. RTD2 is being seeded with its own past.

    #77006
    ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u

    Also. Mrs Flood’s front door. Very clearly Tardis diary blue.

    #77046
    robink2567 @robink2567

    Anybody see the deleted scenes they released? RTD mentioned again that The Woman is Ruby which rubbishes my theory!

    I’m currently watching Constellation (Apple+) which is all about a quantum mechanics experiment in space, where multiple realities are accessed simultaneously. They talk a lot about liminal spaces where multiple states exist and lots of stuff about the observer effect.  Although Mrs Flood exists in two states, so maybe the whole season is a Superposition of states.

    #78332
    nerys @nerys

    As I mentioned in my “Boom” post, having just watched it and “73 Yards” I feel like I’ve watched an entire season. I loved this episode. It felt reminiscent of Doctor Who, but without being derivative. Many others have pointed to past episodes that it harks back to, so there’s no need for me to repeat any of that.

    Can I ask a basic question? What, exactly, was Ruby doing on the football pitch? I know she was counting until she reached 73 yards, so I assume she had walked to a point that was 73 yards away from Roger ap Gwilliam, bringing her old self in proximity with Gwilliam. I wonder what she said that caused him to run off and resign. But we don’t need everything explained. Allowing us to imagine is a good thing.

    I loved the appearance of UNIT, though they certainly weren’t helpful to Ruby. And I wonder what “old Ruby” said to Carla to cause her to disown “young” Ruby. That was heartbreaking.

    This is one of those stories that time travel can tell so well: The Doctor and Ruby accidentally breaking the fairy circle the first time around, and then not breaking when we return to that moment in time, means that all’s well.

    I’m hoping that this wonderful feeling I have, after having watched these two episodes, will continue as I carry on with the rest of the DVDs. I’m happy to have Doctor Who back, even if it’s just for today.

    #78386
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Yowza! That was some episode. I think this time round I could follow the plot better, or at least understand what was going on. But I’m still completely baffled as to why, and how.
    Was the 73-yard woman Ruby all along? Or a holographic projection? And what could she possibly have said to make people run in terror, and keep (effectively) running, like Roger ap William?
    And was the episode  end just ‘reset button’? Alternative future?

    Anyway – cracking good episode. Now I think I’ll read some of the other comments and see if I can get a clue.

    #78387
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @nerys    Well yes, Ruby was on the football pitch precisely in order to ‘target’ (or terrify) Roger ap H-bomb.   She actually got too close and had to back away to exactly 73 yards, and she knew her ‘follower’ would do the necessary.   Exactly what her follower could possibly say to get that result, I don’t know.   Possibly it wasn’t just words, maybe it also induced a psychic state akin to a ‘panic attack’.     (I – just once – experienced a panic attack, or maybe a brief intense depression.   It lasted a couple of hours and it was terrifying.   A feeling of being trapped and helpless.   All this, despite the fact that I knew I was in no danger, and the circumstances were all positive – weather was fine, I was staying with our daughter who I get on well with – there was absolutely no reason to feel depressed and that, in a way, made it worse, I was terrified that it might be permanent.   Eventually managed a short sleep and when I woke up the fear was gone and it was a lovely day.)    So maybe Ruby’s ‘follower’ had the power to induce that mental state in people.

    #78388
    nerys @nerys

    @dentarthurdent I’m sorry you had to go through the experience of a panic attack. It sounds awful.

    But I like your theory of how Ruby’s “old” self (yes, I think that’s who her follower was) could induce that state in those she came in direct contact with. Their reactions seemed to be ones of abject terror.

    #78389
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @nerys not watched the episode recently but wasn’t the part of the  theory at the time that Ruby was experiencing an alternate universe created by the breaking of the “magical” circle/item in which she experienced an accelerated time line and that the “woman” was some kind of guardian/entity created by the Tardis that was kept at the perception filter effect limit to watch over her.

    #78390
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @nerys It was awful, but relatively brief, and left a lasting impression but no lasting scars. Far worse things have happened.
    As a further aside, five years ago next Monday I was walking on a bush track near the beach and I came on a young dead woman hanging from a tree. It was a lovely morning and a beautiful spot, and she had friends who were looking for her, I just couldn’t imagine why anyone in apparently good health would want to do that. I’m ashamed to say I was inclined to the ‘just get over it’ sceptical school of thought about depression.

    Well, since my little ‘episode’, I think I can now understand. If that feeling of hopeless, nameless dread that I briefly experienced was to persist, I’m not sure what I might do.  (I assume she was depressed). It is not a rational state of mind – as I said, I had no reason at all to be sad about anything, and I told myself that repeatedly, to no avail.

    Didn’t Doctor Who do an episode about that?

    @devilishrobby I think the alternate universe (or alternative future) is probably correct. That ‘Tardis perception filter’ idea has some credence, except I think it must have gone wrong and instead of protecting Ruby, it just warned off anybody who got too close to her. Umm, that could work, an over-protective defence mechanism. “You will be protected whether you like it or not.”
    So many unknowns in this episode (which is not always a bad thing).

    #78391
    ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u

    @dentarthurdent @devilishrobby @nerys

    I must admit of all this series, 73 yards is the most erm… enigmatic.

    The distance is about the Tardis in some way: who the woman is; what she says to third parties at 73 yards, I’ve no idea. Nor why Mad Jack should be imprisoned in the ring BEFORE he manifests Roger ap Gwillem…. but that’s magic… or timey wimey or whatever.

    I did have theories re Rog…

    1. echo of Harold Saxon… name, missile obsession, toxic masculinity… which makes me wonder anout his other obsession… DNA. Obviously, half the genetic heritage/history social media posts are stirring the alt right pot. But could it also be about Gallifreyan dna?

    Also, what did all the Zygons do?

    2. Then the interpretation (translation) of the name… ‘renowned spear’ and ‘helm of domination’… the rod and coronet of Rassilon?

    But that would make the arc a ‘Mindrobberesque’ Virtual Reality… eventually including other Virtual Realities in a recursive loop reminiscent of… Castrovalva?

    RTD has a new (brief) interview. The Special has been written ‘in his head’ since 2021… because it was the initial idea apparently. So, resolution of the arc, or a tease?

    Wonder if there are some surprises in tWBtLatS that may feed in?

     

    #78394
    nerys @nerys

    @devilishrobby OK, I’m sure your explanation about the fairy circle, perception filter and so on is correct … and it’s too timey-wimey for my brain to comprehend. Which explains why I was confused about much of what happened. Yet, I loved the episode, so my confusion wasn’t enough to put me off.

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