The Day of the Doctor

[gctv @gctv]

Hey guys im new here so hello! Felt so strongly about the episode and actually recorded a video review with a friend to let out or feelings which id love you to watch (http://youtu.be/fR5yp9UGLmg) but if not here are my thoughts…

• Good set up for the next season’s arc. The search for galifrey like a big adventure for lost treasure, should be fun?

• So why is Tom baker the curator of the museum? I know its really just a bit of fan service to have him show up but he talks about retiring to become the museums curator but obviously he regenerated when he was quite young? But he also hints that he knows about Matt Smith’s future and that he will be revisiting a few of his old faces again. Does that mean that he will end up as Tom Baker again one day? Im confused or just stupid.

• Either way the teaser for the Christmas special looks good. The silence are back, the best villan since the weeping angles. Very underused since their first great appearance. I was worried we wouldn’t get to see the trensalore stuff after last series finale but it’s a relief to see it back.

• Also I have a crazy theory that because they did some wibbly wobbly stuff with the timeline that John Hurt will actually regenerate into Peter Capaldi. Mainly because we didn’t see him turn into eccleston even when it cut to a close up of his regeneration. They could have easily morphed his face into an existing shot of eccleston if they wanted (we know he didn’t come back but it could have been done). I think the doctor will die at Trenzalore permanently since we have the dead tardis there and all. Capaldi will be an alternate 9 essentially following John Hurt.

• Finally the episode really sums up Moffats era of Who so far. Setting up big impossible things that sound great in concept but when we get to the resolution it never really turns out as fantastic as we expected. The impossible astronaut death, the name of the doctor. All of these questions were answered without really being answered and really it’s the journey that is the fun part, not the destination. However, at least with Russel t davis who we got very clear answers to the questions that were set up in the first or so episode of his seasons – arks like bad wolf and torchwood paid off whthout leaving people puzzled. Lets see if the Christmas special answers all the outstanding questions.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@magnetite – Apparently the cinema clips are not on the DVD or the Blu-Ray…

[Anonymous @]

@gctv, hello back to you and welcome.

I think that the appearance of Tom Baker’s dr was a fan nod which was great -never meant to be understood. Perhaps, he’s able, at some point, to return when he’s ready to absorb another face; to ‘retire’ and die an old, happy man -all in the future so no need to puzzle it out, I think.

The Tom Dr could, as some writers have speculated, be The Moment in disguise. If it’s sentient, then it might never actually stop (interfering)! It might keep on arriving at odd ‘moments’. Is The Moment ever returned to Gallifrey’s Omega arsenal? I think not!

Many would disagree with your assessment of Moff’s run with Dr Who. I think the questions are there to tease us and confuse -without that, where would a site such as this be? 🙂

With RTD, I think it was more simplistic -funny, clear, with no real plot confusions. These arrived only when Moff wrote individual stories such as ‘Silence in the Library’ (which heaved up questions that have never been answered yet) and ‘Blink’.

I was tired, frankly, of everything bigger and more ‘epic’ with Russell -the sheer quantities of Cyberman and Dalek ships and then the End of the Universe followed by The End of All Time and then the freakish dobby  creature that was the aging Dr 10 with a song, sung by all humanity (apparently at the same time) on an angel channel which meant that love was in the air (no, that’s the Love Boat). Well, it was all about ‘love’, anyway.

This time, we have battles that are cleverer, with a reality far more interesting than any idealised version of Russell’s. For the first time, the stilted mannequins of my own initial acquaintance begin to yawn and stretch and come to life. Here, the companions show us more: the inside of their minds (other than Rose, I’m not sure if the companions were as fully formed  under RTD -even Donna was a bewildering gag to me); the capacity to love, with Rory’s long suffering Roman; River’s adoration that is Moffat’s absolute trump card-  a woman whose knowledge (and total trust) of the doctor is regressive to his own.

setting up big impossible things that sound great in concept but…it never really turns out as fantastic as we expected

With the anniversary special, I think we got more than we bargained for-not less. A zygon plot which seeded the solution for the time war? All in 75 mins with a whole lot of running gags (a nod to RTD) and heaps of laughs blended in with yet more questions: why is the TARDIS accepting of Clara? Is it because she’s indebted to Clara for helping the doctor out of his collapsing time stream? Is it because, like River Song, Clara is more than the Impossible Girl as shown in The Name of the Doctor?

Sure, there are some things we might never know? Who is in the Doctor’s room in the Hotel in the season before last? But, sometimes these little tit bits stay tantalising forever and just maybe, maybe Moffat, wants the viewers to be a part of the story and to solve some riddles all by themselves. We’re grown up enough, after all, even if the Doctor isn’t! 🙂

kindest,

purofilion

[Anonymous @]

cripes @gctv, I watched your youtube thingamy. Can I say I disagree, again?

You say that the first 50  mins is B plot? and the last ten, A Plot? Not at all!

The solution to B plot is in the A plot! Please read @bluesqueakpip and her unbelievably good summary on the Day of the Doctor: anything I suggest will be better explained by her marvellous post including diagrams! The entire film, then, combines both, and weaves together its parts in a most intricate and delirious fashion.

No-one, surely, wanted all the battles of the Time War? It’s not necessary! We’ve heard about it so much, to see the Skaro degradations and the Nightmare Child and the Steps of the Neverwere (referred to and shown in the Pandorica Opens anyway) is simply not essential to the plot. I think war is a cruel and terrible master. I think that it is easy to lose oneself and is so doing lose the other (the other being the cleverer, mysterious untangling of time and its ramifications when someone -like the dr -presses a big red button -what are the consequences, the nightmares which result?). If one loses oneself, it is easy to become enslaved and miserable to the most capricious of all gods: War and the usual 21st century gratuitous need for it.

If Moffat had done this, he might have catered to a few people but the majority of viewers would have been lost.

From the beginning of Doctor Who, it has never been about that war; the ravaging consequences of it, most certainly.

kindest

purofilion

[Anonymous @]

@wolfweed, Thank you for uploading that! I appreciate it and to @craig, our emperor? I read through some of your much earlier posts and realise there are indeed, ‘drive by trolls’. I get the impression when people ask questions whilst providing nothing of their own, they want everyone to do all this work -to convince them, and then you never hear from them again! Which is fine, but you’re (or I’m) left feeling a little bit foolish. All that blabber… and the ‘youtubers’ who’ve added their own ‘unique perspective’? Grr…..

Anyway, it’s a modern world…and people come by and then pi** off!

Kindest,

purofilion

 

[Whisht @whisht]

Watched this again, and have to say it was even better having read all the timey-wimey analysis here!

Just a couple of things I noticed:

At the beginning, the Tardis is located on an expanse of countryside beside a road. This reminded me strongly of the poignant moment in An Adventure in Space and Time where Hartnell has stopped in his car, confused and staring at a Police box in the countryside. I know just a coincidence, or taking advantage of a location (or my faulty memory).

Oh, and the Handbook on Advanced Quantum Mechanics that the Doctor is carefully reading has a logo of the Tardis on the cover (as if published by the Tardis).
Bonkerserise away with that one!

What I found pretty straightforward (and thus surely I’m wrong!), was that throughout the 50th, there was mention of the Doctor’s ‘job’ (and lack of) with him insisting “I’d be good at having a job” etc.
We then see Liz 1st ‘give’ him the job of Curator of the Under Gallery. And at the end, he faces ‘an old face’ who is Curator (possibly of the Under Gallery).

Well, it all ties together in an obvious way, so why wouldn’t this job (Curator) not be where the Doctor retires to?
Or am I thinking like an 8 year old (it happens! 🙂 )?

[Rob @rob]

@whisht

My simple take on the curator was that (apart from being Tom Baker Squeeeeeeeeee) it was showing us that the Doctor had in fact taken faces from his past/future.

The Curator can be seen just as someone who has had an impact on the Doctors life so their visage was used in regeneration.

Alternatively the Curator maybe where the essence of a regenerated Timelord ends up in a mortal body sort of thing like Doctor 10b with Rose in Alternative Universe.

So he may be the so the Curator may or may not be The Fourth Doctor, I think he is both 😛

This coffee is very good 😀

[Anonymous @]

@whisht and @rob, yes that’s interesting; the regeneration cycle complete or a choice of mortal body made, the doctor can retire at some time in the far future….and choose a face. Just as he chooses a ‘Peter Capaldi face’ for this next regen -having met the man in Pompeii (and as a public servant) who said “it’s volcanic; it’s a volcano”

The book has a TARDIS logo on cover -I didn’t see that! Well spotted. I was taken with him really concentrating on it instead.

[Anonymous @]

#22331  – my earlier post. well, I woke from a nap and realised that I’d been cranky and needed the nap. OOh ignore that second part. Eerr.hm.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@whisht and @rob – my take on The Curator was very simple: he’s a Doctor from the future. He’s retired, he’s taken a face that’s well known to UNIT, and he’s settled down peacefully with Liz I’s job; curator of the Undergallery. It was quite possibly him who told UNIT to look for the TARDIS.

Since Gallifrey’s been found by his time, he can afford to ‘retire’. Maybe Gallifrey has reformed from its ‘non-interventionist’ stance after the shock of the Time War. The Doctor is no longer the Last of The Time Lords, and no longer has the sole responsibility for saving the universe.

The constant references to ‘job’ are a reference to the childish nature of the post-War Doctors. The Third and Fourth Doctors actually did hold down a job. The later Doctors didn’t – but the only one I have problems imagining in a job is the Sixth (mainly because he’d be fired on the first day). Even our semi-retired Curator is pottering along quite happily keeping an eye on dangerous stuff.

But it’s genuinely difficult to imagine Smith’s Doctor with a job. We’ve seen him with a job twice, and it’s still difficult; both times were ‘comedy special’.

The Tennant and Smith Doctors are – as per the War Doctor’s anguished cry – having a mid-life crisis. They don’t want to be responsible adults; the adult they were had to take on too much responsibility – and it broke him.

But if you see The Curator as a future Doctor, you see that the Doctor (even in retirement) is again a responsible adult, holding down a responsible job.

 

[Whisht @whisht]

ah – @bluesqueakpip – glad you agree that the Curator is simply the retired Doctor (who can even pass on the mantle of Doctor…). mainly glad as it means I’m not going mad (or simple).

I love your analysis of Tenn/Smith reacting against the ‘adult’ Hurt who made the wrong ‘adult’ decision (rather than a childish rejection of what ‘had’ to be done and find another way).

But I have to smile that that means that the Doctor “is again a responsible adult” – yet choosing the face of Tom Baker who was the biggest 4 year old of them all*! 🙂

.

*and I loved him for it!

[Whisht @whisht]

oh and @purofilion – hadn’t thought you were cranky.

Completely agree that the Time War is best served by the effects in the imagination (btw a novel by Ursula Le Guin called The Lathe of Heaven – although not about a Time War – had incidents that give a sense of what it might be like living through one. And I cannot imagine that sense of confusion and dread being served better as a movie).

hey ho!

[Anonymous @]

That was proper!! @bluepipsqueak you are totally awesome.  People don’t remember Pertwee enough, he had a ‘proper job’.

@Whist – I saw that moment too, on the road, and felt for poor Hartnell.

[Anonymous @]

I’ve just dumped myself.  Sorry @bluesqueakpip and @whisht.  Trying too hard as a new person.  (Does anyone know how to work these controls?!?)

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@whisht

I have had The Lathe of Heaven in mind, too, while thinking through all of the timeline issues. I almost referenced it in an earlier post, but I couldn’t come up with a logical explanation for why the Time War reminded me of it so strongly. But it definitely does! I think it must be that Le Guin portrays very effectively a sense of mental confusion, of trying to reconcile conflicting memories, that it seems to me might be a by-product of the Time War. I love her as a writer, she paints her worlds so vividly, and the inner workings of her characters make them very memorable.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

I just had another watch through the special yesterday, and as well as being a simple fan made very happy, I’m still impressed with it as a piece of story-telling as well. I loved the way the classic opening morphed so subtly from b&w to colour, and placed us very quickly in the modern setting. I really enjoyed the energy of the airlifted TARDIS scene, I remember just beaming through it the first time I watched, it was so much fun! I thought the transitions were just about perfect, using the paintings to carry the doctor back into his memories of earlier incarnations, and move us into those parts of the stories. And I loved the linking of three different “doctor realities” by means of the traveling fez!

I loved the way that, after seeing the War Doctor at the end of his battle, in all his grim acceptance and implacability, we are shown immediately upon his joining his later selves that he really is still the Doctor. He has that politeness and affability that is always an essential part of the doctor’s character, as well as a healthy dose of rather cutting humour! If I were forced to chose one favourite moment from my first viewing, it might well be the line about the sonic screwdrivers: “It’s a scientific instrument, not a water pistol!” I wanted to kiss him when he said that!  🙂

(The main competition for my affections would be the brief scene where doctors ten and eleven are enjoying the sudden appearance of “the round things”, clearly speaking for BG fans, their voices filled with a world of affection: “I love the round things.” “What are the round things?” “No idea.”)

I was impressed that Moffat made no attempt to cater to fans by shoehorning in loads of past characters. I was pleased that Rose Tyler did not return; ditto Captain Jack, who I know was on the wish list of many AG fans. And while I know the lack of BF doctors was disappointing to some, I thought that acknowledging the show’s history through Tom Baker’s brief cameo was flawlessly done. He is the oldest living doctor, the longest serving doctor, and arguably the most iconic, and he was the right choice in my view. The sound of his familiar voice off-screen, and the long, long moment that follows before we see him, was brilliantly played.

I loved Osgood the fan-girl; with her mantra, “The Doctor will save me,” she was clearly a nod to fifty years’ worth of children watching the show and thinking the same thing. Can I just give here, though, my mental response to all the comments I’ve read in various places speculating about where she got the scarf? I’m pretty sure that it cannot be the fourth doctor’s actual scarf, unless he had more than one hidden in his TARDIS, because didn’t that one get unraveled in Castrovalva, the Fifth Doctor’s first episode? I’m pretty sure that I remember Peter Davison, wandering around the TARDIS in a confused state, using it somehow like a large ball of wool? I think Osgood made the scarf herself, like a proper fan!

Possibly the only moment that worked less than perfectly for me (and only because I had to think up an explanation for it, rather than feeling it as an organic part of the plotting) was the issue of Doctor Eleven’s solution to the ending of the war. I did wonder, when as he said, he had had 400 years to think about it, why he didn’t suggest it immediately rather than wait for Clara’s intervention. On thinking it through, I believe that it was a case of him not truly understanding that he could change his own history (remember Ten’s shock at the suggestion); that he could change his mind. So even that bit works for me, it was just noticeable that I had to think about it to come up with an answer, whereas most of the narrative flowed effortlessly.

Forgive the long ramble; I’ve had all these thought going around since my first viewing, and it’s been fun sorting them out. It’s nice to work out why I loved something, rather than just accepting its awesomeness.  🙂

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

“Calling the War Council of Gallifrey. This is the Doctor.”

The 1st time the 1st Dr says ‘Gallifrey’ (apart from The 5 Drs). I think John Guilor mimics Hartnell very well.

[The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman]

I heard somewhere that the voice that says “no sir, all 13” when Peter Capaldi appears, is actually Capaldi himself. After watching the clip again, I noticed that it does sound quite like him. What do you all think?

[Anonymous @]

@thekrynoidman

I had the subtitles on as I’m getting a bit hard of hearing. It was The General (Ken Bones) who, off screen,  announced 13’s arrival. Also, it was definitely an English accent and PC has said he’ll be using his own accent for The Doctor.

[Anonymous @]

@thekrynoidman, yes as @fatmaninabox said, it was definitely the general, noticeably with the ‘sir!!’

and @arbutus what a beautifully written review you’ve made of that episode. I agree wholeheartedly with using Dr Tom as the cameo, with that ‘silence’ as we waited and then heard that impossible voice! And then we saw….we saw…we saw him! And it was a lovely moment, wasn’t it?

Not to have Capt Jack (although I’ve always liked him –liked) and to have Rose but as The Moment: a perfect coalescing of character and actor as she grinned that delightful ‘hello, it’s me’ and stomped around saying “no more, no more”; everyone was bouncing of each other! So great. You know @arbutus, check out some of the you tube reviews: no, don’t! Most said “we wanted more action, we didn’t understand it”. Dear dear. That’s why I was cranky earlier. People are entitled to their opinion…. that’s hard to cope with, being a Leo, or so people say…

kindest

purofilion

[The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman]

@fatmaninabox Your right it was defiantly an English accent.

[TardisBlue @tardisblue]

:::waves excitedly at all the new avatars, lurkers-no-more and bonkers-theorists:::

@arbutus, wow.  I agree with @purofilion.  A splendid first post.  Please don’t wait a year until your next one!

@TheMasterOfAllHeSurveys, you’re a Third Doctor fan?  Or a UNIT fan?  Or just a fan of the working class?  (If I can gently kid you with the last question …)  I loved the Brig in PG (pre-gap) Who.  There’s just something about a man in uniform, especially with that great hat and ‘stashe.

@gctv.  I watched your review of TDOTD.  I enjoyed the conversation you and your mate were having — it felt “real,” from your Whovian fanboy hearts.  I could see Mr. Speake’s love for Who, and the interest the other chap has in the show (kept expecting a postscript percentage adjustment, though, as he’s up to a little more than 16% of all the shows now, having seen this one twice).

Truth be told, I was — and am — far too excited by TDOTD to harbor any disappointments.  So I’m with @purofilion on this.   I can’t help wondering, though, if those oh-so-great-expectations might have colored your feelings about TDOTD.

I’ve had the experience of seeing a movie after everyone who’s seen it has raved and raved and raved about how great it is.  So my expectations going into the theater are up to *here* and I am bound to be disappointed.  Not saying that this is true for you, just musing and casually considering the possibility.

But I am truly excited about your presentation of this review.  Always nice to see some true-blue-Who love out there on YouTube.

@whisht and @Artubus, I’m not familiar with that particular Ursula K. LeGuin work, but I’ve really enjoyed what I’ve read of hers.  My someday-I-really-should-read-this-list keeps on getting longer and longer, the more time I spend on this forum.

@timeloop, wrong thread, I know, but I really liked your alarm clock ringtone clip over on the General Music thread.  Think you could stream that over the web to me in about 5 1/2 hours?  Gotta get up at 8 a.m. my time.  Which is just about 5 1/2 hours from now.  :::insert conflicted and slightly tsk-tsk-tsking at self emoticon here:::  I *know* better.  Just couldn’t resist saying hi to all the newbies and joining in the UKLeG fan club.

‘night, all

 

TardisBlue

 

 

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@whisht What a spot on the TARDIS symbol on the Doctor’s Quantum Mechanics book.  You get the Eagle-Eyes award!

🙂

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@tardisblue Whoah were are you from?
The Song is called Doctor Wanna Do by Caro Emerald. You can always set it up as your alarm ringtone. 😉 The rest of her music is great as well. You should check it out. Live concerts are incredible, a very positive atmosphere. I got to see her in Berlin.

I guess good mornin’ then. Welcoming new people is always a good reason to stay up late 😉

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@timeloop

Love Caro Emerald. Nice alarm thingy. (Sympathies on the geting up thingy. I always find it’s kind of related to how much sleep I’ve had before the alarm goes off, haha)

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@scaryb Get out! You too? This place really collects people that think alike, doesn’t it?

Though I should start to wonder why most of you are just so oooooold 😛

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@timeloop

Though I should start to wonder why most of you are just so oooooold

Oy!

Compared to the Doctor we are all mere babes 😀

 

PS That’s what you get watching a show that’s just celebrated its 50th anniversary!  (I can’t think of another TV prog that encompasses such a wide demographic. You could see it at the cinema, and at the Excel celebration.  Lots of little bow-tied 4 yr olds, a couple of tiny 6th Doctors (bit ironic that), a fair no of doddery ones with white hair, and all ages in between, all happily united in their love of a TV show. Instant communication, age is irrelevant).

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

[Whisht @whisht]

@timeloop, @elouise and in terms of an alarm ringtone, I use the default one on my phone. However, I went through extremes for a phone ringtone that would actually cut through my headphones. I thought this would work as its the most ‘annoying’ piece of music on my iTunes (other than the stuff i actually dislike) [the normal].But it kept ringing at work when I wasn’t at my desk so I went with this which is far nicer (and lets face it, if I have my headphones on I’m not going to answer the phone anyway!) [bells 2 shj] *warning may contain drum and bass you actually might like.

but thanks for the Caro Emerald – liking the jiveicity!

@arbutus – I really liked your take on TDoTD and agree as to The Lathe of Heaven (if I wrote tLoH I’d have everyone wondering which episode I was referring to… which I may do in the future as I’m a tad mischievious!).

@tardisblue – I’ll admit I have far far too many books/movies/stuff I haven’t seen yet. In terms of Ursula Le Guin I’m no expert as have only read two (Lathe and Left Hand of Darkness) as they were recommended by so many people.
They’re both interesting in terms of setting up a possible world, what it reflects on today’s world and pure characterisation of what would a ‘real’ person do in those circumstances. For that reason they felt more ‘satisfying’ than for instance Arthur C Clarke (great concepts – poor characterisations), but weren’t at the other end of the rollicking-space-operas-spectrum (Harry Harrison/ Ben Bova/ Mieville/ Stephenson etc etc).

But there are more literary (and literate!) people here who’ll recommend better than I over on the Books thread!

[Whisht @whisht]

ah @scaryb – “Eagle Eyes??!?? – does that mean I get another badge or simply explain the strange switch protruding from the back of my skull??

Either way its a win!

🙂

[Whisht @whisht]

hm, as that one worked, I’ll try replying again to a couple of people here as the replies may have got jammed in the gears of auto moderation.

@arbutus – I really liked your take on TDoTD and agree as to The Lathe of Heaven (if I wrote tLoH I’d have everyone wondering which episode I was referring to… which I may do in the future as I’m a tad mischievious!).

[Whisht @whisht]

@tardisblue – I’ll admit I have far far too many books/movies/stuff I haven’t seen yet. In terms of Ursula Le Guin I’m no expert as have only read two (Lathe and Left Hand of Darkness) as they were recommended by so many people.
They’re both interesting in terms of setting up a possible world, what it reflects on today’s world and pure characterisation of what would a ‘real’ person do in those circumstances. For that reason they felt more ‘satisfying’ than for instance Arthur C Clarke (great concepts – poor characterisations), but weren’t at the other end of the rollicking-space-operas-spectrum (Harry Harrison/ Ben Bova/ Mieville/ Stephenson etc etc).

But there are more literary (and literate!) people here who’ll recommend better than I over on the Books thread!

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@purofilion   @tardisblue

Thank you for your kind encouragement! I’ve always been a little shy about sharing my personal views, so I am trying to be braver here.  🙂

I too thought that Captain Jack was a great character: fun, likeable, and different. I just wasn’t convinced, as many fans were, that his relatively few appearances warranted an automatic return in the anniversary special, particularly when most actually companions were not coming back. I liked Billie Piper very much as The Moment, more to be honest than as Rose. (I really liked the scene when she told the War Doctor that the TARDIS noise brought hope to everyone who heard it, “Even you!” and turned on her amazing 200 kw smile as he turned around.)

I haven’t seen the YouTube reviews, although I have read lots of written reviews and opinion posts. Frankly, I wasn’t too surprised, as I suspected going in that there were many people that just weren’t going to be happy, no matter what. Too much AG and not enough classic doctors; too many nods to the past and too few AG characters; not enough Time War; too complicated a plot; Zygon plot either unnecessary or insufficient; should have used (choose one) Silence, Angels, Daleks, etc. etc. etc.  Ha. I think some people were just not realistic in their expectations; that lovely term that coined by this forum, ARSE, comes to mind.   🙂

I guess, finally, my joy in the special comes a bit from my slight surprise that Moffat really did get it right (IMHO) when I wasn’t actually sure going in that he was going to make me happy. I was okay with that, as I never deluded myself that he was writing it for me.  I was prepared to enjoy it for whatever it was. It was when I saw The Night of the Doctor, which I felt that he got absolutely right (I am by the way a huge fan of McGann’s Big Finish audios), that I began to have an inkling that I might be quite pleased with what was to come.

 

 

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

if I wrote tLoH I’d have everyone wondering which episode I was referring to… which I may do in the future as I’m a tad mischievious!

@whisht – oh, please don’t. It takes me bloomin’ ages to decipher the initials when they refer to genuine episodes. Stick in a LeGuin novel, and I could be staring at the screen all night! 😈

@scaryb – I was also really impressed by the spread of demographics at the Excel and the cinema. It wasn’t just all ages, it was all ethnicities and nationalities as well.

[The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman]

I agree with @arbutus, there are just some fans who are never pleased.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@wolfweed

John Guilor also does a mean Tom Baker

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@craig – Cheers. I think I posted that track in the Rose & Crown about 6 months ago. Never realised until now that it’s the same person who did TDOTD & also the Planet of Giants  eps 3&4 recon…

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@craig – I see that he’s done some new stuff on Soundcloud. I’m off for a listen…

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@wolfweed

The guy is a genius with voices. Should be much more famous than he is. This is great as well. A birthday present to Ian Levine.

[Rob @rob]

Just re-watching this again and the opening credits made me rewind

As the camera scrolls along the street name

Man

Foreman

R E Foreman

so we get (bear with me)

Man Foreman R E Foreman

or

Man form man re-form man

10 forms 11 who both reform the War Doctor

ok back to the percolator 😀

 

[Whisht @whisht]

oops – apologies for the double-ish posting. My first wasn’t appearing for me, so I tried again and then again but by splitting it up.

sorry!

[BadWolf1999 @badwolf1999]

Hello does anybody know if the curator was actually the doctor or was he just tom baker starring as the curator

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

[Rob @rob]

@wolfweed Fantastic 😀

For whatever reason it happened,  no blame to any party involved, I believe 9 would have added to the programme

[Anonymous @]

@wolfweed

As Doc9 and @rob said – fantastic 😀 and thank you!

It looks like I’ll have to download this clip and give TDoTD a quick re-edit 😉 I’m glad I haven’t got round to burning my recordings to DVD* yet.

* Just in case anyone from the BBC is reading, it’s for my use only, honest 🙂

[Anonymous @]

TDoTD re-edit done. It’s amazing what a difference a few extra frames make.

[TardisBlue @tardisblue]

@badwolf1999, hi.  What do *you* think?  Please join in our discussion  by sharing your theories and the reasons why you’ve come to your conclusion(s).

The scene between the two of them was, I believe, wasn’t intended to definitively establish who Baker was playing — curator, himself/fourth doctor in retirement, a aspect of the doctor from his own future, or some other person or role..  I think Moffat wanted us to be open to different potential “futures” as well as an ambiguous present.

But that’s just what I’m thinking right now …

With Moffat, a single word or phrase of dialogue — easy to miss or not pay too much attention to on the first viewing — speaks volumes.  You might find quotations from the special helpful.  From Planetclaire.org:

Clara: Oh, by the way. There was an old man looking for you. I think it was the curator.
The Doctor: I could be a curator. I’d be great at curating. I’d be The Great Curator. I could retire and do that. I could retire and be the curator of this place.
The Curator/Four (Tom Baker): You know I really think you might.
The Doctor: I never forget a face.
Four: I know you don’t. And in years to come you might find yourself revisiting a few. But just the old favorites, eh?

Four: You were curious about this painting, I think. I acquired it in remarkable circumstances. What do you make of the title?
The Doctor: Which title? There’s two. No More and Gallifrey Falls.
Four: No, you see, that’s where everybody’s wrong.. It’s all one title. Gallifrey Falls No More. Now, what would you think that means, eh?
The Doctor: That Gallifrey didn’t fall. It worked. It’s still out there!
Four: I’m only a humble curator, I’m sure I wouldn’t know.
The Doctor: Then where is it?
Four: Where is it indeed? Lost, perhaps. Things do get lost, you know. And now you must excuse me. Oh… you have a lot to do.
The Doctor: Do I? Is that what I’m supposed to do now? Go looking for Gallifrey?
Four: That’s entirely up to you. Your choice, eh?. I can only tell you what I would do. If I were you–ah! If I were you…. Perhaps I was you, of course. Or perhaps you are me. Congratulations.
The Doctor: Thank you very much.
Four: Or perhaps it doesn’t matter either way. Who knows. Who knows.

TardisBlue

 

Maybe reading a transcript of the dialogue between Tom Baker and Matt Smith might help you PlanetClair

[toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond]

@tardisblue

Why would Clara not have recognised Tom Baker as the doctor?

Also, I’m sure I remember The Doctor saying He might retire one day and run a museum or something. possibly to amy but I can’t remember when that was. Anyone?

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@toinfinityandbepond

Clara doesn’t say that she doesn’t know who she saw: she says “There was an old man looking for you. I think it was the curator”.

If you’ve read the novelisation of Summer Falls (and Clara did – she says so in Bells of St John), you would know perfectly well who The Curator really is. 😉

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@tardisblue Nice job in welcoming new people to discuss their ideas *high five*

@tardisblue @bluesqueakpip @toinfinityandbepond

I actually had another idea the other day. I think Moffat slipped that in to explain Capaldi.

“Four: I know you don’t. And in years to come you might find yourself revisiting a few. But just the old favorites, eh?”

He liked Capaldis appearance …? He didn’t forget him from way back with Donna. The man and the family he saved. That’s one way to explain Capaldis past. He just liked what it represents: a new future.

What do you guys think?

[Author]

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