General Open Thread – TV Shows (2)
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Craig 4 years, 2 months ago.
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7 May 2016 at 23:36 #52195
Anonymous @
I actually liked Happy Valley -don’t know if there’s a S2 in Aus yet but it struck me that the young James Norton (seen in Who in Cold War episode with Smith) is wonderful. He’s great in the procedural Grantchester opp Robson Green but as the terrifying murderer in HV he was undeniably good.
Kindest, PuroSolo
8 May 2016 at 01:56 #52197@puroandson It took me a while to warm to Grantchester, but I wound up really enjoying it! Well, it’s hard not to enjoy pretty much anything with Robson Green — a very notable presence, that one. I’m looking forward to more.
8 May 2016 at 01:58 #52198Oh, and where might I find “Happy Valley” on line? I’ve heard a lot of good about it, but it’s not being carried by any broadcaster or network in my area (the American southwest).
8 May 2016 at 02:02 #521998 May 2016 at 02:29 #52202@ichabod I love Penny Dreadful but have not had a chance to see the new season but I can’t wait.Very dark and spooky and kinky. It has a great cast.
8 May 2016 at 20:41 #52215@puroandson
It’s not that I don’t like Happy Valley it’s just that I happened to miss it first time round! If it’s very good maybe I should look into it!
Enjoy series 2!
8 May 2016 at 22:07 #52216What is so special in “Game of Thrones”? Strong Language, sex every single episode, or murdering momments? I just don’t get that… For me it’s very cheap entertainment done in very expensive way. So what is so special right there, in this series? Seriously?
20 May 2016 at 13:59 #52421@craig @ichabod (and @puroandson since you like to be in the loop :))
Have finally got round to checking out iZombie and discovered to my joy that it comes from the same stable as the sublime Veronica Mars. A very fresh and witty take on a genre that is getting a bit tired. A sort of Veronica Mars meets Shaun of the Dead meets Wonderfalls (the intervention scene in the pilot is exquisitely judged). And, much like VM very well cast.
Also, zombie fans might enjoy Z Nation (which had passed me by). It’s like a not-quite-so-far-up-its-arse version of Walking Dead.
20 May 2016 at 17:09 #52426@winston Penny Dreadful is an amazing take on every Victorian nightmare ever fixed in verbal form for us to play with later — they’ve got a wonderful vibe going between the outrageous cheek of stuffing their story with sweetly twisted versions of the grotesques all bouncing off each other in world-spanning adventures, and then endowing them all with tragic depths that make it all somehow *serious*. Except that the scripts are also *funny*!
Example: Sir Malcolm is discussing rescuing his imperiled werewolf pal with Wes Studi, the latter playing a wise old American Indian warrior (or the ghost or revenant of one); or rather he’s trying to avoid going to try to help, and the Indian is responding with brief brief, portentious remarks warning of an Apocalypse if they don’t go. There’s a pause after the Indian has dropped one of these “mystical” comments, and the white guy says, “Are your people always so cryptic?” There’s a perfectly measured silence of 2-3 beats — Studi moves not one iota, might as well be a carved wooden Indian stationed outside a drug store.
Then he says, “Yes,” without even a twinkle in his eye; but you can her him laughing his ass off, inside.
Brilliant.
ichi
20 May 2016 at 17:46 #52428@pedant- we’ve just started watching izombie! It’s fantastic. I didn’t realise the Veronica Mars connection, but makes sense now. It’s hard to do something fresh with the whole zombie genre.
20 May 2016 at 23:50 #52430So, I should keep watching? I’m on ep 5 and a bit “bored”. Not good, obv that’s me done (cooked) with zombies.
I expect it will get better?
<plugging in the DVD player again>
21 May 2016 at 09:44 #52436@puroandson- might just be a taste thing. We’re on episode ten and love it. There is a series arc which is building nicely through the whole, rather than it just being ‘story of the week’. And part of me, I’ll admit, is just mesmerised by the detective’s lovely shirts and jumpers. Seriously, it’s very well and cheaply made, his wardrobe must take up a chunk of the budget.
What I like about it is that most of it could almost have been written about vampires. Only we’re used to sympathetic portrayals of vampires. Main reason for this I think is that Zombies are usually these mindless creatures. ‘Warm Bodies’ was quite interesting, but even then they had to slow the main character down. The tension in ‘IZombie’ for me, comes from the fact that there isn’t any glamour to it (aside from her pretty emo look.) If they don’t eat brains, they don’t just turn into killers, they turn into ugly, disgusting, brainless killers.
I’m trying to remember what happened when, I think there is an interesting twist coming your way, and a source of conflict. Because zombies are always evil… and there are evil zombies. I would try a few more, if I were you, and then, if its not for you, there is plenty of good television out there. I’m also really enjoying the chemistry between the lead characters, (the one’s in the credit sequence, which, by the way, masterfully summarises the pilot episode in a few frames) the way they say things to each other, make eye contact and smile and react.
@pedant- I should probably check, but I take it this is from a comic, which they retain in the scene beginnings. Have you seen the comic? I’m weary of looking it up because I don’t know how close it is to the series.
21 May 2016 at 16:28 #52438I think it takes inspiration from a comic, but does not follow it as slavishly as Walking Dead did at the start
@puroandson
I’m not that far in, so I guess it’s a taste thing. I just like the idea of an expert who is fascinated, rather than terrified and there a lot of in-jokes for the attentive.
22 May 2016 at 00:02 #52442You are right -I took another look at it as S7 of House wouldn’t work in the damn DVD player. So, on went izombie.
(I’m safe here, in the Pub I got yelled at -sorta. Phew).
Puro
22 May 2016 at 04:55 #52450Yahoo, other Penny Dreadful fans here. I love that show! Also (in no particular order): Broadchurch, The Fall, Orange is the New Black, Vikings and The X-Files. Hubby and I watched one episode of Happy Valley, liked it but weren’t sure if we wanted yet another bleak series (we had much the same reaction to Luther), so we didn’t continue.
In the midst of a lot of other bleak television we were watching, Hannibal made its way in. Can I say I liked it? Odd choice of words. I admired it, especially the first season, but became less enamored as seasons went by.
Canadian TV series: 19-2 and The Romeo Section, the latter by Chris Haddock, who gave us the brilliant Da Vinci’s Inquest and the underappreciated Intelligence (not to be confused with a lame U.S. TV series of the same name).
For comic relief: Episodes, Angie Tribeca and The Mindy Project.
Oh, and I’m currently enjoying The Night Manager mini-series, plus catching up on some wonderful old Twilight Zone episodes.
22 May 2016 at 09:02 #52458@pharellman in defence of Game Of Thrones- which I know has few if any other fans on here.
I can tell you what I like about it. One thing is the very human moments it shows between characters. They have, in each season, and to with varying success, pairings between two characters whose interests don’t join up, they don’t trust each other, but contain moments of warmth as well as conflict.
Another is the history. Both book and series begin long into the major events of the world. The story begins a generation after what you might think would be the story, a rebellion, someone seized the throne. In the first episode there are hints that the circumstances leading to this are not quite what the official story says. All the events that kick off the story are direct consequences of what happened and choices that were made, every character is formed by decisions made by them or for them at this time. And now, on season six, we are finally getting to what really happened at this time. But the underlying irony of the series, is that the events of a generation ago are not as important as people think. People are jostling for control of the throne that was seized from one ruling dynasty, and few people (though the number is increasing) are really thinking about what really matters- why this disposed dynasty swept in from abroad and sized the throne/were able to seize the throne in the first place. There is a huge wall of ice (which seems clearly to have been built by a more advance civilisation than that currently in existence) supposedly to keep out tribes of people who refuse to live under the feudal system. There are men sworn to spend their lives protecting the wall and keeping these tribes out. In the first episode there is another reason given for the wall. This is disregarded, but this real cause is shown more and more as the story progresses.
To me it is a story about forgotten history. It is a fantasy story that begins with most people no longer believing in magic. The dragons died out, the real threat from the north is an old bogey story. The old, nature religion has almost completely been supplanted by a new theology based faith, and there is a of cult religious fanatics whose god can actually produce powers.
So there is the story that stretches back a generation. There is one that stretches back to hundreds of years before. There is also the older organ story of this continent. There were cultures that existed before the ancestors of the current inhabitants came to Westeros and places where they inherited these older faiths.
The closest the story has to a hero is a coinflip between being wise and benevolent or batshit crazy and dangerous. There is at this point no realistic ending that would not come with great devastation. But there is also at times a great deal of warmth in this story. It gives a pretty grim portrayal of human nature, there are (though these have decreased over the years) scenes of ‘sexpotion’ which we could all do without, and there are some (though this is not all of them) gratuitous scenes of violence. But in essence it is about a continent fracturing and infighting over the throne, when, if they understood their history, they would be joining together and fighting for survival. It’s the slow drip of historical information that keeps me interested more than anything else, and the tension created by the readers/audience able, from a distance, to see the bigger picture unfold while the characters are too small and close to the action to see it.
Plus I like dragons and direwolves. 😉
22 May 2016 at 12:37 #52461Oooooh! Broadchurch. A dangerous word around here 😉 .
22 May 2016 at 17:35 #52462Broadchurch: one of the few TV shows around these here parts where flame-proof undies are the recommended dress code.
Let’s just say that some of us like it, some of us don’t, and the result tends to be what politicians refer to as ‘full and frank discussions’. 😉
23 May 2016 at 00:00 #52466@miapatrick Thanks for that well-articulated defense of Game of Thrones. I have never watched it, so I can’t call myself either pro or against, but the impressions I have had have never tempted me. Regardless, the story elements that you describe suggest more complexity than I have ever seen hinted at elsewhere (many people’s stated reasons for watching don’t bring much to the conversation, in my view!).
23 May 2016 at 03:00 #52467I have mixed feelings about Broadchurch, as I do about The Fall. I felt the first seasons of both were stellar, then both fell down in their respective sophomore seasons. So I suspect there will be complaints, especially about the second season of Broadchurch, that I would agree with.
23 May 2016 at 07:19 #52473A dear friend loves Game of Thrones. Although I haven’t seen it, and therefore cannot judge it, what I have heard, from several people, is there is a lot of bloody ( as is blood and gore) violence and sex. Even our friend told me as much, but she loves it. Not for me.
Really enjoyed the Fall and the first Broadchurch.
Ttfn
Missy
23 May 2016 at 07:57 #52474@missy- ah, but though I don’t deny the blood and gore. There is more to it than that, and it is the other things I watch it for. The Medieval period was itself rather bloody- I wouldn’t want to watch someone being hung drawn and quartered. People used to watch quite gory executions, for entertainment, I suppose the point I want to make is not all (some, and yes we do worry about them) of the people who watch Game of Thrones watch it in the same spirit as that. Most of us- I expect your friend included- tolerate it in parts, in other parts find that it serves the plot and setting. But if you really don’t care for seeing these things on the screen, it would be rather heavy going.
@Arbutus- Thank you! Though I’ve just read it back and the typos make me wince… Indeed some people do seem to like it for the sex and violence. I’ll admit that my watching of it has been enriched by reading the Guardian episode blog by Sarah Hughes. Although the blog is about the TV version she, and many of the commentators, have Read The Books. (How do you know if someone has read the books? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.) This means some of the talk boarders on spoilers, but I like it in the way I like reading discussions of Old Who on here, it gives me a lot of background and makes some things in NuWho make sense which I might not have picked up on. The books are not, by all accounts, well written, but the world building, characterisation and, in the first few at least, plotting are wonderful.
23 May 2016 at 09:58 #52478It’s strange, because I recently bought The Plantagenets and you couldn’t get more gory than that.
As you say, people in Medievel times, were very violent and brutal, but when it’s true (as well as they can make it, after all they weren’t there) I don’t mind it as much. Still, I haven’t seen it so cannot judge it.Ttfn
Missy
23 May 2016 at 11:46 #52482The thing worth watching – bar one low series, is Rake as Cleaver Greene with Richard Roxburgh.
Fabulous first episode of S4.
Great humour; nice and pacey; completely unpredictable (well, almost)
23 May 2016 at 13:01 #52484@missy – A Song of Ice and Fire (which is the book series from which the program is made) is very informed by medieval times. I like it when writers who want to use a medieval setting, but don’t fancy the ton of research an historical series was require to be any good, so they make a fantasy as well. Which also allows dragons and such like. But the writer does use the medieval setting well, he’s used a lot of influences from European history and also done quite a good job of creating a world like that, but without Christianity and its positive and negative effects.
I can see why people have more problems with the invented brutality of a fantasy series, in comparison to accounts of actual brutality of the past. I did have a history teacher who disliked the horrible histories series, especially the ‘terrible Tudors’ because, he said, ‘these were real people’. I took from that that people ought, when approaching real historical figures, to approach the subject seriously- in his view at least. And also that he had never fully recovered from studying under Starkey, known Tudor botherer. I’ve meant to look at the Plantagenet’s. How do they treat Richard III?
23 May 2016 at 15:35 #52485Hello Everyone, Im new here, And I hope Im not breaking any rules, if I am please remove this post, and let me know, but just wanted to share with everyone a group in facebook that me and my friends are just starting up, we were tired of getting flooded with adverts for t-shirts in our news feeds in a popular fan group for doctor who on facebook so we created a new one and are inviting anyone who wants to join and share memes and videos and the like to join us. Everyone is welcome and we will never sell out to commercialism. This is a group for fans if you want to join come on over. Thanks in advance for letting me share this with everyone if this is allowed, if this is not allowed, i apologize, I only wanted to share the joy and fun with everyone. https://www.facebook.com/TheDWHub/
23 May 2016 at 18:58 #52488Speaking of gore, Vikings is no walk in the park. We’ve been treated to the blood eagle, as just one example. Yet one thing I appreciate about this series is that it goes beyond the barbarism and shows these people as complex: ruthless, yes; there’s the stereotype. But also ingenious, ambitious, tender, loyal, suspicious, bewildered, shuttered, insecure, driven, brave, joyful … all the aspects of human character. Obviously Vikings is a contemporary rendering of Norse mythology, but watching Norsemen (and women) striking out into the unknown, attempting to conquer foreign lands and deal with the people living there, has caused me to think very differently about them.
23 May 2016 at 22:11 #52489@missy re GOT or which your friend says: there is a lot of bloody (as is blood and gore) violence and sex.
Yep. Lots. But IMO, it’s not so much the presence of these elements as the relish with which they’re handled. Reminds me of little boys (mostly) staring at road kill etc., and torturing small animals (including their younger siblings) to entertain themselves and indulge their morbid curiosity. I avoid the worst of the show when I can, which is often (it’s usually pretty crudely signposted; subtle, this show is not). What keeps me coming back is all the tantalizing intrusions of supernatural forces and events, which I find much more interesting than the endless political scheming and bickering; the latter being a bit too close to home in a US election season, perhaps . . .
I also grant GOT major kudos for including goodly numbers of females in the cast of characters, as people as significant to the plot and the action as the males are. Fantasy fiction usually falls down in this respect, partly because if your model is some form of feudalism and rival kingdoms, it’s going to war all the time, with little interest in women except as prizes, victims, or variable exceptions by virtue of class. Martin has managed to do the war stuff effectively while keeping women in the story as foregrounded characters, not luscious background-candy.
24 May 2016 at 00:45 #52490So I treated myself to this. Almost entirely for sentimental reasons, but as soon as I started watching I remembered exactly why the house I shared at the back end of the 80s/ early 90s, full of graduate students and those making there way into the graduate job market, got up religiously on a Sunday morning to watch it.
Just sublime and it is totally obvious why they had to nail down the music licensing before doing it (it was made in pre-DVD times so nobody thought to do it at the outset). The thought and skill with which the music of the late 60s is deployed is outstanding. Faking it would never have worked.
If you have some spare cash, treat yourself.
Really weird and delightful to think that Danica McKellar is 41 now, and a brilliant mathematician with part of a proof name after her.
24 May 2016 at 01:14 #52491Yes, that IS a treat at 80 pounds! That would be about $150. I actually have heard of it but don’t remember much about it at all.
I must goggle it.
P.
24 May 2016 at 01:19 #52492@pedant Really weird and delightful to think that Danica McKellar is 41 now, and a brilliant mathematician with part of a proof name after her.
Is she? That’s really cool. She was lovely as Winnie, it was a great show altogether. I loved it. And I always like hearing about these multi-talented people, who can send off their bolts in different directions!
24 May 2016 at 04:20 #52501@puroandson I have been lucky enough to watch the first two series of Rake and I really like it. It is gritty and yet very funny at the same time. I hope that we get to see more. But oh Cleaver when will you ever learn to behave yourself?
24 May 2016 at 04:37 #52503My hubby loves GOT and I like listening to it from the next room while I talk to nice Whovians like all of you.The violence is way too much for me , all that screaming.
24 May 2016 at 07:53 #52510That is the one thing about Plantagenets (the DVD) which annoys me, they barely touch on Richard 111.
Richard 11, yes.
Quite frankly I feel daft not being able to cope with sex and violence when it’s part, or all fiction, but can when it isn’t. *rolls eyes* I believe that The Hollow Crown (series 2) is rather brutal in parts. Oh well, I shall have to grin and bear it.Hello there, you should love it here. Welcome.
Ttfn
Missy
24 May 2016 at 07:55 #52511Funny you should say that. We watched one episode of the Vikings and turned it off.
What whimps we are.I much prefer Merlin and Harry Potter.
Ttfn
Missy
24 May 2016 at 08:00 #52512Thank you, that makes sense about GOT. Little boys pulling wings off flies?
However, I too love the magic and supernatural elements, so it’s a great shame.Ttfn
Missy
24 May 2016 at 08:02 #52513My hubby loves GOT and I like listening to it from the next room while I talk to nice Whovians like all of you.The violence is way too much for me , all that screaming.
I rest my case.
ttfn
Missy
24 May 2016 at 08:16 #52514one last thing you might not know? When you are tagging people you can do so all at once.
That way, there aren’t 7-8 posts by you which are shown on the activity area.
In other words if posting to Miapatrick or Winston you can do this in the one post and not separate out your posts into several.
Just an idea.
Cheers,
Son of Puro.
24 May 2016 at 11:02 #52518@missy, @ichabod, @winson – there really isn’t that much screaming. Or quite as much violence as some critics claim. The show features a couple of young men who really are like boys pulling wings off flies. But there is a balance. The last episode (though you’d need to watch it from the start to get the impact) was in my opinion GOT at its best. In some places better than it has ever been.
@ichabod, yes, what they’re doing with the supernatural is the main thing I like about it. And the history- the two are linked.
24 May 2016 at 19:59 #52522@miapatrick Of GOT: there really isn’t that much screaming. Or quite as much violence as some critics claim.
A matter of taste, I suppose; and it depends on how much the context appeals to an individual viewer. I have to admit that there’s a ton of (usually more subtle) cruelty on Penny Dreadful (case in point, last Sunday’s episode), and I did consider turning it off during the extended scene with Vanessa in the asylum cell — but I’m glad I didn’t, since it morphed gradually into such a delicate development of the kindness one person can slowly learn to do for another who is in extremis (and then — well, ’nuff said).
And it really does feel, in that series, that the beauties and the horrors are driving passionately *toward* somewhere well worth reaching, whereas with GOT, it feels like an exceptionally vicious gang-war, with occasional time-outs for sight seeing, sex, and bad dreams. Since the real world feels way to much like that most of the time to me these days (the relentless drumbeat of bad news, atrocities, conspiracy, and corruption, I mean), I don’t have much tolerance for it these days in my entertainment. I think I favor less diffuse cast of characters, with tighter focus on a handful of individuals who show a capacity — and have the time, between — for complex thought and feeling, which Penny Dreadful at least counterfeits well.
I am cheery this morning anyway, however — we learned today that the Archbishop of Canterbury is a bastard! A bastard son of nobility, no less — and nobody seems to give a flip! There’s a photo of him (BBC news, I think) in his full regalia and wearing a delightful expression that I read as, “You’re kidding me, right?” Rather endearing, I thought.
24 May 2016 at 23:23 #52526Not only that, but has also written two books designed to get girls to engage with maths (or math, to use its American diminutive).
Just watched the episode when Kevin’s sister runs away from home. Unspooled a little. I doubt Donovan’s Catch The Wind has ever been deployed to greater impact. In fact the last 5 episodes of the second season are an extraordinary essay on the pain of childhood loss – of the brother killed in Vietnam, of childhood starting to slip away and for society showing the first signs of fragmenting.
25 May 2016 at 04:19 #52534Judging by the first ep of the new season of Rake, I think Cleaver will never learn!
Part of that is endearing and the other part would happily permit me to knock him off the Sydney Tower after his first three ‘apple-tinis’ -or his first three scotch and cokes.
I came across Danica McKellar’s writing at a conference on ‘building communication with Girls and Boys’ in literacy and maths. I had no idea of the connection. I remember this because I needed verbal threats before attending any work conferences. I managed only a few, and bar one or two, they were very good and memorable -hence the light-bulb moment.
25 May 2016 at 08:54 #52538@Ichabold- what did you think of the latest episode? Apparently ‘the feminists have taken over’ according to the ever understated reactions of some commentators… I do agree it gets too much. Really what I’m responding to is the idea that it’s all about the sadism and watchers are mini sadists, when there is more. And it has lost its way on occasion. For example, one little sadist made sense, with his background and circumstances, you could see how it came about, but I still think more could have been done with dialogue. The second little sadist also made a kind of sense, but… too much, overkill. You can show people going through horrific things and the changes it makes without so much detail.
The archbishop of Canterbury is a bastard? Of nobility? I think my grandmother was descended from a noble bastard. That is rather fun, and bless him (and everyone else) for that reaction.
25 May 2016 at 10:31 #52542Since the real world feels way to much like that most of the time to me these days (the relentless drumbeat of bad news, atrocities, conspiracy, and corruption, I mean), I don’t have much tolerance for it these days in my entertainment. I think I favor less diffuse cast of characters, with tighter focus on a handful of individuals who show a capacity — and have the time, between — for complex thought and feeling, which Penny Dreadful at least counterfeits well.
I am cheery this morning anyway, however — we learned today that the Archbishop of Canterbury is a bastard! A bastard son of nobility, no less — and nobody seems to give a flip! There’s a photo of him (BBC news, I think) in his full regalia and wearing a delightful expression that I read as, “You’re kidding me, right?” Rather endearing, I thought.
I feelings exactly, but there are sometimes exceptions.
Penny Dreadful is a new one for me, is it on Foxtel?
I really must google the Archbishop, I haven’t heard about this.Ttfn
Missy
25 May 2016 at 17:15 #5254625 May 2016 at 22:43 #52548The archbishop of Canterbury is a bastard? Of nobility?
Not of nobility, exactly, but his biological father was certainly extremely well-connected. Sir Anthony Montague-Browne, FO (and also KCMG, CBE, DFC), former Private Secretary to Sir Winston Churchill.
It appears it was one of those ‘I slept with him exactly once! Once, I tell you!’ things. 🙂
26 May 2016 at 02:38 #5255526 May 2016 at 05:33 #52558According to Wikipedia, the Archbishop’s biological father was related to James 1st and James 2nd.
Ttfn
Missy
26 May 2016 at 06:32 #52560clear, precise, poignant and not moribund: true writing. Thank you for that treat.
Kindest always,
Puro and Son
15 June 2016 at 06:10 #52704Have any of you seen “The Illusionist?”
We watched it the other evening and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Missy
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