Lux

[Craig @craig Emperor]

The second episode, and this one is supposedly a good one – a high-concept bit of craziness.

The Doctor’s quest to get Belinda home takes the Tardis to Miami in 1952 at the height of segregation. An abandoned cinema is hiding a terrifying secret, Lux Imperator, God of Light, who has taken on the form of a living cartoon character called Mr Ring-a-Ding.

This is, once again, written by RTD, and it’s directed by Amanda Brotchie, who is also directing next week’s episode, so it better be good. She’s an Australian director known for the multi-award-winning comedy series ‘Lowdown’ on ABC and BBC4, Amazon Prime’s series of ‘Picnic at Hanging Rock’ and Netflix’s comedy series ‘Girlboss’.

And guest starring are the ever-reliable Linus Roache, and Alan Cumming having a blast as Mr Ring-a-Ding.

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Well an enjoyable romp. I think I now know  where the online rumour of Ncuti filming a regeneration scene came from so maybe Ncuti isn’t leaving the show anytime soon, though to be honest given his increasing “fame” and I assume offers of work I wouldn’t  be surprised if he only does 3 or 4 seasons and I think the overall average is 4 seasons. Yes there has been actors that have done many more seasons ie Pertwee  I think, and Tom Baker pre gap and Tenant and Smith post gap so expecting an actor to commit for much more is probably  impractical of fans we will probably be lucky if we get 4 seasons.
Anyway back to the episode it’s obviously hinting that the mad/chaos gods are definitely  behind events in the whoniverse here we have another mad god creating mischief. Obviously something has happened on May  24 and I’ve just realised the season finale  is going to be broadcast about that date though it may be the weekend before I can’t remember if the season is 6 or 7 episodes. Also I see we have another episode that is heavily making social commentary on the times the episode is set.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

That was very enjoyable. Take aways…

This is definitely in The Mind Robberverse. I was a bit annoyed by the ‘don’t make me laff!’ ‘Why? Oh it’s the giggle!’ After which some letters fall off Rock’s credits on the OUTSIDE the cinema revealing… but it is the Doctor, who’s INSIDE, who says ‘hey it’s only the chuffing Harbinger!’ Well, if it is a sort of dream, then that kinda thing does go down eh? I’m surprised no one was naked on the bus. Baldrick, you’ve turned into an Alsatian, stop it! Probably explains the ersatz Beatles and Stupid Sutekh too.

Ooops look like something may really have happened to The Earth!

2025 – 1952 = 73!!

The V’indicator could be a nod to the V’linx???

A quite outrageous attempt to upstage Gatwa even more than Davison was at the end of Caves of Androzani.

Would Mrs Lowenstein, 1952, Miami, really address The Doctor as ‘sir?’ But nice nod to Trump’s ai ‘arrest’ fake photos with the NYPD uniform.

And the meta fan appearance! That might be a bit too much for some people.

Best bit? ‘I’m Velma.’

[WhoHar @whohar]

@devilishrobby @ps1l0v3y0u @craig

An enjoyable ep. A bit trippy and very meta at times. I liked the joke about Mr Ring a ding not having emotions as he was a two dimensional character

24th May is the airing of the penultimate episode.

I also had the same thought about the regen scene.

And, yes, I was also confused by how the Doc saw the letters.

Music notes restraining people in the last series, film stock in this. Another Mrs Flood cameo, and this one means she can time travel.

I thought Varada Sethu was excellent.

 

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

First impression–I thought it was pretty good. And it was the one episode of the RTD2 years so far that made excellent use of all that Disney+ money.

I really liked the meta allusions  with the trio of fans and their constant answer to the question of which was the best episode–“Blink”,”Blink”,”Blink”. In fact, the trio of fans reminded me the group Anderson had got together in Sherlock”, coming up with theories about how Sherlock survived the fall.

@whohar Yes! Mrs Flood must be able to time travel.

I am sticking to my idea of the Time Lord Nanny…

[syzygy @thane16]

Rich score

Amy’s theme and in the diner, a take on the Adagio Molto Beethoven’s Symphony 1.

[WhoHar @whohar]

@thane16

Lots of callbacks. I think also a song from Doc 11 (during the scene with the fans). Sad Man in a Box.

Also the Mr RaD laugh was the same as Stooky Bill’s from The Giggle.

And did anyone catch the mid credits scene?

[syzygy @thane16]

@whohar yup. “Sad Man.” It was nicely done

[winston @winston]

Well, I liked all of it from the scary start to the finish. I have loved the mix of live action and cartoons since I saw Gene Kelly dance with the mouse from Tom and Jerry when I was a little kid.Then I thought it was magic and after this episode I still do. I just wish the Doctor and Belinda were animated a little longer.

The music as usual was perfect and hearing Amy’s theme and Sad  Man made me feel very nostalgic.  Mr. Ding had his own  theme music, funny.

Who or what is Mrs Flood? She is starting to bother me now.

If it wasn’t so late I would watch again right now and I haven’t felt that way about an episode for awhile.

@whohar I didn’t catch the mid credit scene so thanks for the heads up, I’ll catch it next time.

stay timey-wimey

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

There is a scene in the cinema, where they are screening an old black and white Western. It immediately reminded me of one of the most wonderful 1950s British comedies ever made,  “The Smallest Show on Earth,” about a young couple who inherit a run-down cinema, and try to make it work, by showing cheap movies, including an old Western. As I watched the show tonight I really wondered if RTD2 was using the same cinema footage of the old Western  from “The Smallest Show on Earth”.

If If you have never seen the movie, with Margaret Rutherford, Peter Sellers, and many more, I encourage you to seek it out. It is one of the most wonderful British comedies of the 1950s.

 

[TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit]

I liked it! I think it was great how characters on film could be brought to life and I started to have fantasies about using this technique. I think the fans watching on TV was a nice touch, as well. It was a shame it was set on Earth, though. I want to see some stories which are completely set on other planets. We haven’t had this so far in this series. Lux was shown draining lots of regeneration energy from The Doctor, so I wonder how he’s supposed to recover from this drain. I was surprised to see Gaumont British News being shown in a cinema in the USA. Was it really shown?

I think there was a continuity error compared with the Thirteenth Doctor episode “Rosa”. “Lux” is set in Dade, Miami, Florida in 1952, but “Rosa” is set in Montgomery, Alabama in 1955. I’m not sure if that makes any differerence in this case, though. They mentioned racial segregation. This was described as banning “black” people from the Diner, as well as from the Cinema. However, both Yaz and Belinda are obviously of ancestry from the Indian subcontinent. In “Rosa”, Yaz was allowed to board the bus at the front, instead of in the middle, so this meant she was classified as white. She was called “Mexican” in a restaurant and refused service, though. However, in “Lux”, The Doctor said that Belinda was “black” and therefore banned from the Diner and the Cinema. Is this accurate, or not? I think there were very few people of Indian or Pakestani ancestry in Florida or Alabama in the 1950s, so they weren’t classified as “black”. I think that people with darker skin from other countries, such as Australian Aborgines, would have been classified as “black”, but not from India or Pakistan.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@translatorcircuit

I could be very wrong on a number of details but I THINK the Montgomery bus policy wasn’t a matter of law per se but actually the bus company’s own rules. Diners may have had their own rules.

Clearly this representation of Miami is very conscious of Cuba… which rings true and was also a bit weird. Bastista kidnapping people? Is this going to be a theme in the arc? I think Belinda may be assumed to be hispanic rather than first nation.
I thought this was better on balance than Rosa, where I wonder if Malorie Blackman’s original script might have been different. Rosa Parks WAS politicised and she did have a problem with that particular bus driver, but she was also very upset about Emmet Till’s death. They kind of covered that aspect with Ryan’s confrontation scene and ok, show don’t tell, but really?
And apparently it was Graham what done it. Well done Graham!

[Cath Annabel @cathannabel]

I’m pretty sure that the rules about who and wasn’t included in the ‘non-white’ category were made at state level or even more locally, but also interpreted ad hoc by police officers, bus drivers, diner owners and so on. Someone on the other site complained that Logan would not at that time and in that place have called the Doctor ‘sir’ – it would certainly be unusual, but Who often reminds us that even in dark times and places there are people who can rise above the bigotry and hatred and I like to think that a few years later, Logan is getting involved in civil rights protests, and perhaps remembering his encounter with the Doc…

Oh, and I loved this episode.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@cathannabel

Yeah! The tone, concept and execution of this ep were all good.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

I loved it, but my brain is completely tied in knots with all the meta bits! 😛 (In a good way).

The Doctor and Mr Ring A Ding have lots of visual (and other) parallels – bow ties anyone? Blue suit? Picking up a (simpering, Betty Boop-alike) female companion (in a yellow dress!) as he starts an adventure. And Mr R-a-D’s style very strongly influenced by Disney’s not exactly PC 1950’s cartoon style.

Breaking of 4th walls (literally) left, right and centre… not to mention up and down, and outwards.

I think I need @juniperfish to sort my thoughts out 😉

@ps1l0v3y0u I’m definitely feeling your Mind Robber/Land of Fiction theories here – possibly with Mrs Flood as the source. Are we heading for a complete re-set when everything (including Sutekh) since 1968(???) is a story within a story?! Last week was also about a created (fictional) world.

The fans think they’re not real… but then it strongly suggests at the very end that they actually are (much to their surprise).

As at @winston‘s avatar reminds us – we’re all stories in the end.

Hi @cathannabel – great to see you back. I agree, I think Asians generally weren’t included in definition of “Blacks” and segregation, but in practice, especially in the deep south, if you were brown skinned you were at risk. Not so different in US now sadly – anyone not white, with a Latino sounding name is a potential target, And I love your theory – I like to think that a few years later, Logan is getting involved in civil rights protests, and perhaps remembering his encounter with the Doc…

Definitely my kind of Dr Who though. Off to ponder a bit more.

(Meta theories not helped by my difficulties in trying to watch this! iPlayer on TV kept re-setting and throwing me out every few seconds, Disney+ doesn’t seem to have DW on it anywhere… Ended up watching on my phone!)

[BobbyFatv2 @bobbyfatv2]

As Mr Ring-a-Ding ascended, it looked to me like he left behind some tears? Which makes me think there is something definitely going on behind the tears… a flood of tears as it were. Is Mrs Flood stalking the Dr to collect his tears and unleash them on earth in a biblical flood?

[BobbyFatv2 @bobbyfatv2]

Also whatever is up it’s been going on since the start of RTD so I’m speculating on Wild Blue Yonder, salt, breach of the walls between our universe and the pocket universe of the Mind Robber.. causing bi-generation, explaining the time time loops in 73 Yards..

 

but then this is RTD2 so not hopeful.

[WhoHar @whohar]

@scaryb

Re: Disney+, I think Who is on there for Rest of the World, in the UK it’s BBC / iPlayer.

I don’t think even RTD would retcon the entirety of Who, by making it a story within a story. Would he? He can retcon The Timeless Child as much as he likes, though. 😀

@bobbyfatv2

Tears is definitely this Docs thing. It appears to be Gatwa’s choice (according to RTD), but that seems an odd thing to do every episode (and it’s now in the next trailer), so maybe they are scripted and, therefore, important.

[Whisht @whisht]

Well, just seen this (I know, very tardy of me!).

I really enjoyed it.
Enjoyed the fun, seriousness, and switches between the two (which could’ve been awkward but I didn’t find them so).
Loved the fans (why oh why didn’t they say “We enjoy making up theories even more bonkers than what’s actually going on”????!!??).
;¬)

Not much to add except, here’s my theory even more insane yadda yadda who I think Mrs Flood is.

She’s…

The Watcher.

Hence she’s everywhere the Doctor is.
But obviously not great if we love our Ncuti.

Now to think what choons for this ep!

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

@whisht nah she can’t be the watcher the watcher was a foreboding presentation that indicated to TomBakerDoc that his regeneration was approaching and was in fact the PeterDavisonDoc, oddly enough this could have been a pre Gap form of BiGeneration as the two of them (tombakerdoc and the watcher/Davidsondoc) merged upon the “death” of TomBakerdoc

If you mean she is one of the two Guardians, if so I would say she is likely to be a manifestation  or servant of the White Guardian given her predilection to wear white, though that could be a red herring in 2 senses 1. RTD lies (a given) and 2. The Black Guardian has been known to masquerade as the White Guardian. 😀

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

After reading some of the previous comments I’d missed a sudden thought occurred to me. At the time Lux is set I was under the impression that the film reels were owned by the major production companies and were effectively rented out to the individual cinemas so surely there wouldn’t have been a big store room of film reels. Though my knowledge of how cinemas worked then may be wrong and yes I am aware that each film often consisted of multiple reels hence the need for multiple projectors and they would have needed some form storage for the films currently being played, but not to have what looked like hundreds of films as most cinemas then only had 1 or 2 screens unlike today’s multiplexes. The only reason for all those reels was to make the “explosion” possible as a plot devise.

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

@devilishrobby @whisht

If it is another old Who callback, and one of the Guardians, I’d be a bit surprised. But…

1. I’ve been wrong before, pretty much everytime actually.

2. I’d reckon she would be the Black Guardian, given her previous statement about “bringing terror”.

What is interesting is that she’s been the neighbour of both of Doc 15s two companions. That can’t be coincidence, and maybe the fact she seems to be dressing as former companions e.g. Romana’s white coat, suggests a deeper interest in the Doctor’s friends, at least some of them.

She can also time travel as we saw this week, although other explanations may be available for her appearance in 1952.

I’m actually hoping she’s a new character (see also @blenkinsopthebrave ‘s nanny theory), although Susan or Omega would also work (for me). Or maybe she’s the one who waits?

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@whohar Well, my Nanny theory was a second glass of wine theory. Even I recognize that  inebriation is not always the equivalent of illumination…

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

My theory about the Brontosaurus, was it was thin at one end, thick in the middle and thin at the other… a  bit like the last series.

Otherwise…

Mrs Flood is PROBABLY River post New York girl, pre Mel from Leadworth. Some Time Travel ensues.

How is she (and Susan Triad) everywhere? VR built to reflect The Doctor’s life.

Why? The bigeneration. Something’s gone wrong with 14… watch The Ultimate Foe, if you can face it. Or, if you’re RTD, bring the other Mel back! There had to be some reason.

How? What is The V’linx? Never explained. Why accept it? Well, has the thing ever been questioned? THATs like something out of a dreeeam…

Why give a bit of average tech a name like V’indicator, before shoving it back in The Tardis? It’s a hint, isn’t it?

I’m thinking Villengard, Norse for ‘the Wild Garden.’ I’m thinking Valeyard, French for ‘Old Man.’ I’m thinking both.

The Guardians were a biggest load of sci fi sewage since before The Ultimate Foe. Please NO! Who appoints monochrome (pale or dark) Universal Tutolatory Spirits, especially ones who wear dead vultures on their bonce? No. But, while we’re at it, can we also NOT have The Rani nor Sabalom Glitz? Please?

Sil? Hey. Cool. Marsh Minnow?

[winston @winston]

I rarely have any good theories and I don’t now, but that Flood women is driving me crazy. Sometimes she seems very menacing and creepy but then she is cheeky or funny. Wait, maybe that was my Nanny?

No matter where you look even in the 50s  she is there being all mysterious.I am enjoying this series so far but I can’t wait to find out who she is.

Lux was great.

stay sane

[WhoHar @whohar]

Or – if we are going with the Mind Robber / Land of Fiction theory, then Mrs F could be the Mistress (not Missy), an English writer controlled by the  “Master Brain” computer.

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Mind_Robber_(TV_story)

But maybe something’s gone wrong? Eg the computer has a virus, or Mrs F has a conscious or unconscious (maybe she’s neuro divergent or neuro compromised) desire to meddle.

If we are in the LoF, it could certainly explain “mavity”, the continual 4th wall breaking, other anomalies we have observed.

One other point – if the schwup has caused / been caused by the destruction of Earth, then what is Doc 14 doing about it? “Nothing” seems to be the answer, so he’s either dead, away from Earth, doesn’t actually exist (as it’s all a story), or RTD has not thought thru the consequences of the bigeneration.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

I am sure this must have been suggested before, but given all the meta references in this story, what if every episode we have seen with 15 is not reality? Perhaps even from when Jodi Whittaker became Tennant. The salt, mavity, and so on. Hmmm.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@scaryb

I loved it, but my brain is completely tied in knots with all the meta bits! 😛 (In a good way).

The Doctor and Mr Ring A Ding have lots of visual (and other) parallels – bow ties anyone? Blue suit? Picking up a (simpering, Betty Boop-alike) female companion (in a yellow dress!) as he starts an adventure…

I think I need @juniperfish to sort my thoughts out 😉

Hello @scaryb old friend, and all <waves> . I’m a bit late to the party on this episode – only watched it yesterday.

Yes, excellent call about the similarities between Mr Ring A Ding and Miss Sunshine and the Doctor and Bel. I think we can read that as a meta-commentary clue about the nature of reality being squiffy in Gatwa-Doc’s universe, as well as a meta-commentary on the darker side of the Doctor – a fantastical being like Mr Ring A Ding forever seducing/ kidnapping innocent young things like Miss Sunshine to take them away in his time machine! Mr Ring A Ding is magnetic (literally full of light and magic, as he’s made of moonshine) and sinister, just like the Doctor who has, after all, effectively kidnapped Bel and is currently unable to return her to her parents, despite her desperate wish that he do so. Gatwa Doc has compared himself to Willy Wonka (he sings some lines from “Pure Imagination” when he welcomes Rogue to the Tardis in 14×06 Rogue) and we’ve previously compared him to Peter Pan. The goblins in 14×01 The Church on Ruby Road who kidnap babies to eat them are a bit of a dark mirror for the Doctor, who “kidnaps” orphan Ruby (I mean c’mon he is back on his bullshit of going for human companions who are, in their early 20s, only a few years out of childhood). Both Wonka and Pan are fantastical and deeply attractive characters with dark sides who entrance children away to magical realms (Wonka’s “golden ticket” factory and Pan’s Neverland). I really like this subtextual element of RTD 2.0 – the Doctor as a Pied Piper figure.

I was also struck by the similarity between Bel’s yellow 1950s dress and the pink 1950s dress worn by Rose in The Idiot’s Lantern, which was set in London in 1953 (and this episode is set in 1952 in the US).

Also I was struck by the similarity between the red-bodied robots in the first episode of this season, The Robot Revolution, and the cyborg King Hydroflax in The Husbands of River Song. Incidentally, the robots of The Robot Revolution were designed, according to the production notes in the Wikipedia entry for the episode, with a “retrofuturistic” look influenced by the 1950s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Robot_Revolution

Possibly that desire for a ’50s look is part of RTD’s underlying critical theme in the Gatwa era, tackled explicitly through the Al-as-coercive-incel character in that episode, and the Jim Crow segregation in ’50s Florida in this one, about how our contemporary moment (with its retrogressive “anti-wokeness”) is insisting on time-travelling back to the 1950s.

However, the broader theme we’re discussing here is whether the cartoons-become-real in Lux hints that call-backs to previous Who in the Gatwa era are part of a meta-narrative, whereby the Pantheon have trapped Gatwa Doc in an Alternative salt-line-has-been-crossed “mavity” Universe or, as in @ps1l0v3y0u ‘s great theory of it being The Mind Robber’s pocket universe.

Essentially, that would mean the similarities we’ve been noticing to past episodes and characters in Gatwa’s run are the result of the Pantheon remixing the Doctor’s past. So bubbly blonde Ruby Sunday is a bit of a Rose Tyler echo (for example) and Sutekh of course is a Baker’s Doctor’s old god villain redux. We’ve previousl remarked, here on The Doctor Who Forum regarding similarities to previous Doctor Who in Gatwa’s run. In particular, we talked at the time about the way in which Rogue seems like a perfect mash-up between River Song and Captain Jack Harkness – catnip or bait, for the Doc, you might say.

The name “Lux” is familiar from Doctor Who audio stories Escape from New New York and others, where the Lux are a species who attempt to take over the planet by creating cybernetic servants, the Lumen:

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lux

There is also John Lumic (another light reference) who was the creator of Cybus Industries on the parallel Earth in 2×05 Rise of the Cybermen.  And one of the Doctor Who fans in Lux (who think they’re fictional constructs but bend “reality” by remaining at the end) is wearing a cyberman T-Shirt with the word “Telos” written on it. That is the planet Troughton Doctor visits in Tomb of the Cybermen.

We could read the cyborg references (the robots of MissBelindaChandra and the cybermen reference in this episode) as other clues to the artificial, created, nature of the universe Gatwa Doc is currently travelling in.

And we’ve speculated before that perhaps the reason Gatwa-Doc cries in every episode is that on some level, his Time Lord bi-generated body already knows that he’s inside a gigantic trap. And perhaps the solution is that the bi-generation has to re-merge, Gatwa-Doc and Tenant 2.0 Doc coming back together, ending Gatwa’s run?

 

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@juniperfish

I was also struck by the similarity between Bel’s yellow 1950s dress and the pink 1950s dress worn by Rose in The Idiot’s Lantern, which was set in London in 1953 (and this episode is set in 1952 in the US).

Also I was struck by the similarity between the red-bodied robots in the first episode of this season, The Robot Revolution, and the cyborg King Hydroflax in The Husbands of River Song. Incidentally, the robots of The Robot Revolution were designed, according to the production notes in the Wikipedia entry for the episode, with a “retrofuturistic” look influenced by the 1950s:

Ditto, ditto ditto.

In The Robot Revolution my immediate thought on seeing the robots was the similarities in the design to Hydroflax, and the design of their rocket ship was straight out of 1950s SciFi comics. That the 1950s vibe was deliberate was of course confirmed when I subsequently watched Doctor Who Unleashed. Cool in it’s way, although I couldn’t help wondering how a cute little rocket ship of such design could possibly be supposed capable of navigating interstellar distances. But where the Whoniverse is concerned that kind of reasoning leads to madness; best not to pursue it.

As for the design of Bel’s dress in Lux with its full skirt and multiplicity of petticoats, and Rose’s outfit before that, they are more 1959 than 1952, but as with the similar anachronism in the 1960s outfits in The Devil’s Chord, I suppose anything which recalls the decade seems appropriate.*

RTD was born in 1963, the year that Doctor Who came into being, so never experienced the 1950s, but it does seem as if he has a fascination with the decade. Perhaps for him it has an air of the exotic.

 

*I wonder if it ever occurs to the designers that there may be people watching who are old enough to have worn such clothes.

[WhoHar @whohar]

I do have some sympathy for the prod crew here. Their job is mainly to give a feel of the period, rather than an accurate representation. Possibly this is driven by the age of the people involved (as mentioned above). Perhaps the music on 1920s-set shows weren’t accurate? I’m not an expert in this area, so can’t comment Help : @thane.

I think this is a modern TV thing though, in that it is less of an issue to be historically faithful.

That said, there is perhaps a drop off in “standards”.

Also, concerns about these things, pre-internet  were not large, mainly because who would have picked this up (and also be able to broadcast it).  When you have “fans” complaining that nails were visible in Andor, and that wasn’t aligned with the world, then perhaps fans should all step back and breathe. Just my 2c

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@mudlark and @whohar – I also  realised that the yellow and blue of the Doctor and Bel’s outfits in this episode look like Disney’s Beauty and the Beast (1991):

https://people.com/movies/disneys-1991-beauty-and-the-beast-fun-facts/

Could the fact Belinda Chandra is called “Bel” for short, and Belle is the name of the heroine in Beauty and the Beast, suggest the Doctor is “the beast”? So perhaps we will find out that he is a (lost) member of the Pantheon of Discord? Maybe he knows that (bodily) and that’s why he’s always crying?

There’s also Donne’s famous line from his poem For Whom the Bell Tolls; “Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee”. So perhaps Bel(inda) Chandra is (like Ruby Sunday) an illusion or a trap? “Chandra” means “moon” in Hindi, so that’s also interesting given we’ve just met a character, Mr. Ring A Ding, made of moonlight.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@juniperfish

The 50’s generally in nuwho:

Remembrance of The Daleks (strictly 1963 but see below), The Idiot’s Lantern, Rosa, The Devil’s Chord (on the basis of the quote about the sixties really starting with the release of Please Please Me): it’s NOT a big sample.

Yes I think RTD may be attracted by preppy/mod stylings… he may think it appeals to a specific and much younger demographic. More importantly it gives a snap shot of the reality of the traditions that preceded ‘The Devil’s Decade,’ long cursed by fogeys and reactionaries. The people who harp on about diversity.

Season 2 was quite uneven so I’m not keen to revisit Maureen Lipman screaming ‘hungry!’ The costumes ought to be similar. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russ’ greatest hits – and in this case a b side – was being revisited. It’s happening all over.

Otherwise… 2025 – 1952 =73

73!

 

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@juniperfish

A couple of thoughts from Mrs Blenkinsop:

1. Would RTD2 really want anybody to think of the first Black Doctor, as the “Beast”?

2. The Doctor’s tears: When this Doctor bi-generated, he was full of positivity, whereas the Tennant  Doctor was completely devastated. Indeed, the new Doctor had to hold and comfort the Tennant Doctor. But as the new Doctor has gone from one adventure to another his positivity  has given way to the burden of being the last of his kind and the loss of of Gallifrey. All of which he inherited when he bi-generated. And perhaps the tears are a manifestation of that.

 

[janetteB @janetteb]

We are running a week behind with viewing so watched Lux last night. I really did not expect to like it. The premise of the story annoys me, cartoon character coming to life. I also knew that the S/O wouldn’t like it because he dislikes the trickster type characters. Despite disliking the central premise I really enjoyed it. The breaking of the fourth wall won me and the reference to Galaxy Quest elevated it from a 6.5 out of ten to a solid 7.

As to bonkers theories I don’t have any.I am just enjoying the crazy roller coaster ride for now. it does seem Mind Robber-ish but I want that to be the case and so expect it won’t be. The new, new Dr Who universe is full of crazy impossible beings or forces. I would prefer Who stories to be a little more grounded but it is fun.

cheers

Janette

[WhoHar @whohar]

@juniperfish @mudlark @ps1l0v3y0u

@blenkinsopthebrave

Some intetesting points here. I tend to agree that the optics of a black Doc being “bad” would tend to rule it out. It would be interesting though to have the Doc turn to the dark side as it were. And it ties into the idea of the bi-generation splitting the Doc into two (this sounds a bit Valeyard-like)

“Chandra” means “moon” in Hindi

This is a great spot but, alas, RTD2 has already mentioned the late casting of Sethu, (with her performance in Boom apparently convincing him to make her the companion) and that she was originally written as Belinda Finch (?), or another Anglo name. Could be a misdirect by RTD though.

@janetteb

I would prefer Who stories to be a little more grounded

This got me thinking about the 3rd Doctor and his “grounding” on Earth, and how the current season is the opposite to those (Doc 3 wanted to leave Earth and couldn’t, Doc 15 wants to get back to Earth and can’t). Maybe that is something RTD2 is consciously playing with.

Of course we know that Doc 3’s exile was finally revoked by the TLs after the 3 Doctor’s, a kind of tri-generation at a push. And we all know who the Big Bad was there…

[janetteB @janetteb]

@whohar Mrs Flood is the Master? Might be. she is mischievous enough and certainly ambiguous in terms of motive. He does point out that he is the last of his kind. Last time he said that he was proven wrong. RTD does seem to be repeating a lot of ideas and themes.

I just hope she ends by confessing that the destruction of Gallifrey was all a lie. .

cheers

Janette

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@janetteb

Yes! Bring back Gallifrey!

I am with you!

[WhoHar @whohar]

@janetteb @blenkinsopthebrave

I was thinking more of Omega (S10) than the Master (S8) but, if my observation about RTDs thought process has any legs, then either one works.

Another old-Who TL that is rarely mentioned is the Meddling Monk. I don’t know all that much about him except that he was a Monk, and he meddled. I vaguely remember something about him in a story involving the Battle of Hastings, and the MM’s attempt to change the outcome by giving modern weapons to Harold.

I don’t think RTD will retore Gallifrey anytime soon – this reboot of the show has a lonely Time Lord (apart from the other one on Earth!), and I suspect he’ll prefer that thematically. Season 3 or 4 for a big TL reveal is my guess. That said he could bring a single one back at any point.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whohar @blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb

If Mrs Flood turns up with a gold tooth, then she is Missy Master. I surrender. Thing is, last time I saw it, gnasher in question was last seen in Max Capricorn’s gob while he plummeted into the Titanic’s Storm Drive with Kylie. Explain.

Safe to say, Moff was pro Gallifrey; RTD and Duff Chris were anti. Is the big red world coming back? Don’t look good. Unless TCC has really been relegated to the Land of Fiction – and imagine the fall out from that – Gallifrey should be safely death particled into submission.

Death by Death Particle! I can hear the teeth grinding in Russ’ head. Death by Crayon.

The Monk was a blithering idiot. Rather have The War Chief, if he wasn’t actually a pre Magister Master. Or the Rani… if she isn’t Tecteun.

But IF it was only Gallifrey that bought it, we must be looking at a Time Lord who couldn’t be scragged.

Aside from The Doctor…

The Master is a tooth, apparently.

Omega is ‘safe’ and ‘mad’ in antimatter land with all his happy chicken headed mooks.

Romana may or may not have been embroiled in The Time War, but I should think the Master’s pre T’floox entropy flim flam might easily have mucked up all those handy charged vacuum embodiments, leaving her marooned in E space with all the yummy lion people long time. What Time Ladies get up to on holiday.

River is in a VR already. With Doctor Moon, Dot and Bubbly tech and nasty woodlicey Vashta Nerada maybe?

But… what exactly happened to The Division? I dunno. Don’t want to look, mummy.

I know no one wants to go there, but you would think The Division should be harder to flush away than Star Trek’s Section 31, surely?

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Gallifrey.

I am sure there is a perfectly simple answer to the question I am about to raise–there usually is. But here goes anyway.

Gallifrey was destroyed. But Gallifrey existed before it was destroyed. The Doctor has a time machine. Does this not beg a rather obvious question…?

 

 

[janetteB @janetteb]

@blenkinsopthebrave Yes. Indeed. And when was Gallifrey destroyed and how does that fit with previous Who canon because we saw Gallfirey at the end of time.

cheers

Janette

[WhoHar @whohar]

@ps1l0v3y0u

But Sutekh had supposedly perished in PoM, so anything is in play I think.

@blenkinsopthebrave

The Blinovich Limitation Effect?

@janetteb

Erm…

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whohar

Surely Stupid Sutekh was too stupid to actually be Sutekh? A case of Artificial Unintelligence.

@blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb

Gallifrey was hidden CLOSE to end of The Universe because of Infamy… apparently The Universe had it in for them. I have days like that. But it wasn’t the ACTUAL end, presumably because the heating bill was too high and you couldn’t get Uber Eats.

The Doctor went close to (three different bits of) The End of Time. Yana’s world (an accident) Orson’s world (a mad endeavour) and Gallifrey, the hidden track (to get Clara’s heart going again). Gallifrey presumably died some time after The Doctor stole his second type 40 (unless it was actually the first one but earlier on) to get there. Ashildr presumably got there after Death by Particle, having outlived The Universe. Must be overuse of the Vortex Manipulator makes your face go like Boe’s.

Can The Doctor go back to pre Death Particle Gallifrey? Yess. He might not want to (God, I hate this place!) And he’s really not very popular there. Also, got to be careful about crossing his own Timeline. Not sure BLE applies to card carrying ‘Time Species’ or we wouldn’t then have all the fun and games with 2, 3, 5 Doctors, The Day of The Doctor, or Twice Upon a Time.

Gallifrey of The Deadly Assassin, Invasion of Time, Arc of Infinity and even Hell Bent, is a bit shonky. You really want it back? I need to finish Chris and The Division. Bet you they didn’t have stupid collars.

But still… urghh.

 

[Whisht @whisht]

oooh a random thought.

@juniperfish [waves] mentioned in this post above
‘Bel(inda)’s a name may have meanings.

Also as @whohar [another wave but I’ll stop after this] says in this post above
The character’s name was changed when they cast Sethu.

But they only changed the surname.

They kept ‘Belinda’.

Does this mean he needed “Bel(l)” as a name?

Will the Tardis Cloister Bell may be ringing soon..?

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