Spoilers (3)

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  • #59807
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @wolfweed, @jimthefish,

    Oh, come on. The thread is called “Spoilers” after all. People enter at their own risk. Why? Because they want to see the spoilers.

     

    #59808
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed–

    Yes, saw a couple of them but they really just confirmed what I’d already heard from a lot of sources already. But you’re right, definitely a ruiner. And the perfect riposte to all those complaining about the early reveal of the Cybermen and the Master. If you try to keep a lid on it, this kind of thing happens.

    #59809
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Alternatively, I suppose we could ask @craig to put up a new thread called “Complete and Utter Ruiners: You Have Been Warned”

    #59810
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Sorry – make that 6 photos…

    Okay then…

    spoilers

    The RUINER has been removed… (I’ll go & look!)

    (Clue was Blackadder – told you it was cryptic)

    UTTER RUINER – YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

    #59811
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave — The wartime setting is interesting and not what I expected at all. And now @pedant‘s unseen location shots from months back make sudden sense.

    #59812
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @wolfweed

    Hmm…I have just thought of a cunning plan…

    #59813
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish

    Indeed. Very interesting.

    #59814
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    other 3 photo spoilers…

    Wibble wibble wibble… (etc.) [With pencils up nostrils]

     

    @jimthefish  Also, famous football comes to mind (think Xmas)…

    Nuff said…

     

    #59815
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    In fact, the more you think about it, it does raise the prospect of where it might be leading to…

    And I am thinking of my all-time favourite Who story….

    If so, that would be too awesome for words.

    #59816
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed — yes, did think that… and also The War Games… can it be coincidence that this alleged three-parter has already included the villains from one doctor’s final story? If someone leaks a pic of a big giant spider than we’ll know for sure….

    #59817
    Nick @nick

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    What’s your favourite story then ?

    #59818
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @nick

    war ?

    #59819
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @nick

    If the location shot is WWI, and if the location photo from sometime back was WWII, then it might involve the Doctor (or Doctors) visiting earth during times of great peril, which could lead them to…”The Dalek Invasion of Earth”, which was where the Doctor famously made a promise that he has not yet kept:

     

    #59820
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Hmmm….. World War 3 is a Chris Eccleston story, whilst World War 5 (49th century) is mentioned in TUD…

    10 downing

    Just grasping at straws…….

    #59821
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed @blenkinsopthebrave @jimthefish

    Hmmm. The photo’s suggest WW1 and WW2 as you suggest. The ice regen scene from last week suggests Antarctica (and Tenth Planet giving a link to the first Doctor). The picture of Susan from episode 1 was either a sign post for fans or a complete red herring leading to Susan. There are different levels on the Ship, which could be a call back to the War Games concept (or not).

    Fascinating.

    #59822
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Bonkers: The Doctor comes back, only to find that Susan’s marriage to David became dysfunctional. He became old & jaded, a cynical alcoholic. Susan stayed young.

    David beat her so badly that she died, so she regenerated into a man built like a brick shithouse and proceeded to batter him to death.
    Then the Doctor walked in. ‘I told you I’d be back, child.’

    ‘But you came back later earlier, Grandfather’, she replied ‘Back when my children were murdered by the Daleks.’

    ‘Good-O’, replied the Doctor. (He raised a glass of bubbly & looked to the camera) ‘And a merry Christmas to you all.’

    #59823
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed– uncanny. You are Steven Moffat and I claim my five pounds….

    #59836
    MissRori @missrori

    Hmmm…but a wartime setting doesn’t make sense for the Twelfth Doctor’s finale.  He’s getting his latest fill of war in “The Doctor Falls”.  And Moffat said the Xmas show would be a story of redemption and hope, of moving on, not another sad tale of death and destruction.  There’s no redemption or hope in the trenches.  Why not a warm place where the home fires burn, where people who love him are so he won’t die alone and anguished?  Why No Man’s Land instead of the Promised Land?  And where will Bill and Nardole fit into all of this?

    #59837
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @missrori — dunno. a lot of redemption happens in wartime. Have you never Sgt York?? Besides which, let’s not jump to conclusions. This does not mean the Xmas story is set in the trenches, merely that there are scenes set there.

    But at the same time, I just don’t see 12 getting the warm and fuzzy regeneration that you’re wishing for him. And as for Bill and Nardole, well, maybe they don’t make it to the end of The Doctor Falls. Maybe there’s no de-Cyberisation for Bill.

    #59838
    MissRori @missrori

    @jimthefish Never seen “Sergeant York”.  But I don’t see why, if Moff wants to do an uplifting story, he’d set it during a war, especially an real, Earthly one he can’t stop from happening.  I’m assuming this isn’t going to be Twelve’s version of “The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe “, though I guess it could be. But if he’s going to be bereft and hurting, especially because his companions are gone — I doubt there’s a new companion waiting for him here, though again there could be — I can think of many better places for him to be to embrace life again than a time and place marked by the worst of humanity, where life is cheap and Death rules.

    Unless it turns out Clara is here?…

    #59839
    janetteB @janetteb

    @missrory but amidst all the horrors of war there are stories that are uplifting, stories of people defying orders or risking their lives to help another human (or animal). There are examples of beauty in all the horror and those stories are vital because they remind us that at the worst of times our “humanity” can prevail. The Christmas Truce is one such story. Would love the series to visit that one Christmas. So often the Doctor is the good that prevails so it works.

    cheers

    Janette

     

    #59840
    MissRori @missrori

    If the Doctor wants to prevail though, why not focus on saving Bill in the finale this Saturday?  Why is he wasting time with those farmers in “The Doctor Falls”?  Think about it — the Mondasians are doomed, they can’t make it.  He can’t change that, but he can save Bill.  He and Nardole should focus on getting to the lifts and getting her back to the TARDIS, to heal her.  It would also be a great way to stick it to the Masters!  😉   But nooooo, he helps out others too and is “rewarded” with lonely death in the snow.  An inspiration to us all…

    Basically, I think following one story involving war and battlefields with another story involving war and battlefields is a weird idea if the Doctor is seeking peace and joy. If anything it’s a reminder of why humanity just ain’t worth the trouble.  As Missy said, he’s too arrogant and sentimental…

    #59842
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    ‘But you came back later earlier, Grandfather’, she replied ‘Back when my children were murdered by the Daleks.’

    ‘Good-O’, replied the Doctor…….

     

    #59843
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @missrori — well, as mentioned above, the battlefields of WW1 were the locale of a key story of the Troughton era. The Mondasian Cybermen were introduced in a key story of the Hartnell era. Perhaps we are going to see a Doctor in despair at the loss of all his companions and who is guided by a ‘certain figure’ from his own past and through his own past to find hope again a la It’s a Wonderful Life.

    #59844
    Anonymous @

    @missrori I’d have to point out what @jimthefish has added and @janetteb as well. It may not be  your understanding or even knowledge of war time but by heaven did my own parents experience great joy during war. They also were very scared and desperate. But why were they joyful?

    Because as I keep harping on about, it’s not about you, or the Doctor or the companions. They’ve made a choice. And also: shit happens. But in war it’s about others. No life is worth more because they’re the Doctor or the companion. The ordinary people are of equal worth.

    My parents at age 16 helped the Resistance during ww2. They hid 100s of people in my father’s pub (which was run by his father). The loud accordion playing and the pretend voices of over-enthusiastic drunks meant they could protect the  children hiding in the basements for several months: they were often babies, crying, with scared mothers and fathers frightened of the internment camps. These people were moved to safety and lived. Many others in Poland and elsewhere, died.

    This is real life @missrori.

    Then, knowing that the very communists who were their allies would swiftly turn against the Resistance -particularly the educated and clever ones meant my parents left their families without saying goodbye. They never saw them again. They took no mementoes and left no notes so suspicion could be diverted. My parents were 19 and mum was carrying my brother.

    They hid in the mountains during a cold Autumn begging for meat and scraps from the occasional village they passed. They escaped Bohemia and found lodgings in ‘refo’ camps in Northern Italy. Three years later they arrived in Melbourne. Their offspring and relations are all over Australia now. Had they not come none of us would be here.

    That’s a story consistent with LIFE: embodying hope, sadness, despair, betrayal and a reflection upon the joys and texture of real living.  Happiness? Reward? They would never have considered this.  They did recognise life existed without witness or reward; but with courage and determination to push on, and push ever upwards.

    The Doctor is an alien. He will manage. If Bill dies, then she has at least lived cramming decades into months, seeing things beyond our mortal imagination. Not a bad bucket list -considering she’s never had a bucket!  As for the Doctor: 2000 years and all the stars to see? Married and loved unconditionally by River?

    The Doctor’s the luckiest man alive, @missrori and I hope one day you come to see that.

    All the best (stay positive!),

    Your friends, Thane and Puro.

    #59845
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    #59846
    Anonymous @

    @missrori. This right here is the problem:

    Why is he wasting time with those farmers

    The Doctor defends the people.  And his time is rarely “wasted”   😉

    #59850
    MissRori @missrori

    @thane15  But doesn’t he owe it to Bill to save her ASAP?  I mean, he could have saved him and her and the universe so much trouble if he’d just let Missy fry back in “Extremis”…destroying evil is not an evil act, after all.

    In the meantime though, wow, you come from very strong stock indeed Thane and Puro!  Thank you for sharing that story, and your kindness.  I wish I had the means to be so brave for others.  But my situation as an autistic woman who depends on others for transportation, lodging, and such means I can’t participate in the causes I would like to.  (Charity donations and such, I do those…but it just isn’t the same.)

    #59852

    @missrori

    he’d set it during a war, especially an real, Earthly one he can’t stop from happening

    Did you not watch Human Nature/ Family of Blood?

    There’s no redemption or hope in the trenches.

    Have you not heard of the football match in no man’s land?

    Why not a warm place where the home fires burn

    Did you not notice Nancy and her sons – or Doctor Constantine – in The Empty Child/ Doctor Dances?

    Why is he wasting time with those farmers

    Did you not notice that, when he returned to Gallifrey, the Doctor went not to the citadel and the generals, but to the barn and his people?

    Saving life is never wasting time.

    For heaven’s sake, you are becoming a parody of yourself.

    #59853

    @missrori

    “Extremis”…destroying evil is not an evil act,

    Actually, it is – that’s why civilised countries don’t have the death penalty. It reduces the State to the lowest level of the criminal.

    #59854
    MissRori @missrori

    @pedant  I suppose I am.  I actually have noticed the symmetry of the Doctor aiding the rural folk in “The Doctor Falls” with the kindness and courage of the Drylanders in “Hell Bent” (can’t be a coincidence they’re both season finales) — but not in the way you’re pointing out.

    #59855
    MissRori @missrori

    @pedant  Well, I’m from the United States…I confess I don’t get the death penalty myself.  I mean, I see where the arguments come from, but I can’t wrap my head around it.   🙁

    #59859
    Anonymous @

    @missrori

    I appreciate the autism spectrum -in general. But if you have no means of transport (and neither do I due to mega meds!) then you have the internet and books: check out the football ‘break’ for Christmas when a white flag was raised?

    See, one thing you can do is read those stories, the real ones (not about a fictional doctor) but about why those stories are chosen as a backdrop for The Doctor Dances.  Humanity defies cowardice and menace, and so from immense struggle, strength and resilience grows.

    Without such pain and struggle we gain nothing: as I said “farmers” or not, they are just as worthy as Bill. Perhaps more so because they’ve seen the Time War; lost families and friends and are treated dismally by the TLs on Gallifrey.  But in the end I’d have to agree that no person is worth less than any other.

    If you simply choose to destroy evil you may end up like the very people you despise. You’re unable to teach others how these evil acts are wrong: and why and how to defeat them without losing your core sense of purpose and dignity. Showing acts of love and kindness without an expectation of acknowledgement is true sacrifice; it is in the dark places that virtue is tested.

    Had my parents (butchers and farmers) been considered less than ‘the other’ they would’ve perished  – it was thanks to the random help by total strangers -soup and bread -that they survived. Fortunately these strangers chose to help despite the possibility of arrest.

    So, does Bill need to be saved? I’m not sure. Would it be terrific if she was? Absolutely. But the world is never absolute and it’s not always fair or gentle. Which is why we occasionally rage into that good night 😉

    #59861
    MissRori @missrori

    “Rage” is a good way of putting it!  And we know Twelve is full of that!  I think it will help him.  😉

    #59867
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    In the trailer for TDF, the Doctor (as well as having a bandaged hand) is holding a stick (presumably) for a walking stick.

    Foreshadowing you know Who?

    stick

    #59868
    Nick @nick
    #59869
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @nick  Nope. I’m getting sloppy. They don’t pay me enough…..(!)

    Here’s where you find the hi-res ones…..

    hi res

    I notice that the Sam Spiro conspiracy remains, even though she denies that she is no. 13. She might be lying or she might be Susan or she might be the Master. Or she might not be…

    #59870
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    Thanks. I wonder if the cyberman in the pictures with the Doctor and Missy/Master are Cyber-bill ?

    I suppose we’ll find out next week. If she isnt in that episode (and it only makes sense to keep it secret is she’s playing a name character) then an older Susan must be a real possibility. In which case @blenkinsopthebrave ‘s hope just might be coming true.

    #59872
    MissRori @missrori

    @wolfweed I don’t think there’s enough room for any more X-is-Y reveals myself.  They’ve only got an hour to wrap this up and there’s enough on the platter as it is, and then big action scenes… 😀

    I didn’t catch the walking stick, but yeah, it could well be foreshadowing.  It’ll be interesting to see what’s bringing out the golden glow and how much time passes for him…imagine a crumbling Doctor!  Maybe he needs to put in false teeth by the halfway point, a hearing aid, etc.  😉

    #59873

    @thane15 @missrori

    If you simply choose to destroy evil you may end up like the very people you despise.

     “He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
    And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.

    #59875
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Biggest COMPLETE & UTTER RUINER just leaked…

    Where’s that new thread?

     

    Don’t even ask.

    Someone else can bear the brunt this time.

    #59876
    MissRori @missrori

    @pedant In one of the Twelfth Doctor comics from Titan, he uses part of that quote in a conversation….and then says “Should never haven given that quote away.  Could’ve dined out on it all across the universe.”  😉  (Seriously, the Twelfth Doctor monthly title is great for anyone who likes comics.)

    #59883
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed–

    So no chance of another cryptic clue then? Or even a non-cryptic one?

    #59885
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @jimthefish

    Girly Letters on twitter has it. I just don’t want to be the leaky (linky) one again…….

    leaky

     

    #59888
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Maybe it’s not so bad. It’s just that I was expecting to see a soldier with trenchfoot or something…….

    #59889
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    She has several spoilers. The one that stood out for me was the picture on the canon camera. It seemed like a very familiar hair style to me !

    #59890
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed — nah, not a massive surprise or anything.

    #59892
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    How would we feel if Missy became Pearl Mackie to honour Bill, whilst the Doctor became Michelle Gomez to honour Missy?

    holes

    #59903
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Just had a horrifying thought.

    What if Bill was (somehow) simply the Doctor’s ‘imaginary’ friend all along, created to test Missy’s behaviour outside the Vault?

     

    [Or perhaps she’s like Pete from Thin Ice?]

    pete

     

    #59904
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    ‘I mean, one heart? It’s your most important organ, and you’ve no back up. It’s like a budget cut!’

    If the Doctor or Missy donates Bill one of their hearts, will Bill become an offshoot of that donor?

    donor

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