The Winchester

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u   @nerys    I would take any comment by tRump as the exact opposite of its face value.   That is, if he thinks Kamala is ‘very, very nasty and disrespectful’ I’d regard that as high praise for Kamala.   Only slightly diminished by that fact that almost *everybody* is ‘nasty and disrespectful’ to the narcissistic, malignant tumour that is tRump.

By the way, ‘stop plastic’ is a gross over-simplification.   Phones, computers, cars and aircraft, even electric power wouldn’t exist without plastic.   Or they would be massively bulky, brittle and expensive.   Even packaging – these days I can walk along the beach without, usually, cutting my feet, largely due to jars and soft drink bottles now being made of plastic not glass.   The occasional cut is usually due to some cretin with a glass beer bottle.   NO WAY would I ever want to see soft drink bottles revert to glass!    Of course the real cure is to persuade people not to litter, then it won’t matter what the bottles are made of.   (And stop selling bottled water in non-returnable containers – what a criminal waste of plastic and energy that is!    In third world countries where tap water isn’t safe, there might be an excuse, but none whatever in a country like NZ!)   OK, [/rant]

(Which means, by the way, that the heavy-handed message in ‘Praxeus’ did not go down well with me)

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

Apologies, I too tend to oversimplify.

I suppose most ‘just stop’ agitation is bound to appear self defeating, but no plastic recycling technology was available in the early 70’s when plastic was considered relatively neutral in the environment. But concerns were already being raised then. Fifty years later we see the threat of microplastics.

It does look as if it may be possible to prevent plastic introduction to the ocean via estuarine capture, but most plastic recycling is one generation only, if it takes place at all. Let’s face it, historically, most ‘recycling’ was actually export. Incineration is vastly polluting. Is there really no option for widespread ‘feedstock’ recycling? If ever there was a role for green energy, it is there (hey! Let’s do the plastic recycling on sunny and windy days).

Industrial and tech plastic recycling should be easily managed because of the higher value components retrieved. But you still need to make the plastic elements amenable to reuse. That must be a role for international governmental intervention. Any objection is pseudo ideological, in that no one espouses an ideology anymore… it’s just power = money… drill baby drill.

In short, plastic packaging could be largely eliminated, with some difficulty, but it has to be done with international agreement, or you’ll just import the problem or export it to BRICS and Wagnerland.

It will, I’m afraid, be a globally warmed world but let’s not make it a Paleocene/Eocene thermal maximum… I assume a Permian/Triassic event is beyond us… famous last words. Saving our civilisation is enough… if fear it will become a ghastly Spartan autocracy but let’s see.

It is happening. Even tRump knows it must happen, but he can’t turn down donations, just like our own delightful Mr Rees-Mog.

Plastics need to be sorted pretty quickly. My advice: wear sandals on the beach.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u   I will address just one comment – your last.   It is formally rejected (grin).   These days I wear sandals if catching a bus or a train (because bare feet for some reason make operators nervous) or – usually but not always – at the supermarket.    But not otherwise.   I used to have to wear shoes to the office but now I’m retired, so I don’t.

I just like going barefoot.

 

 

[nerys @nerys]

Re: the wildfires in Canada, I’m heartbroken to read the latest news about Jasper, Alberta. My husband and I vacationed there in 2002 and loved it. But it looks like the town suffered devastating fire damage, and the beautiful national park may be a charred ruin, as well. As @winston noted, the threat to wildlife is awful to think about. One can only hope that many animals can outrun or outfly the fires and escape to safety. But where is safe?

[winston @winston]

@nerys   We were there about 10 years ago and it was such a beautiful place. Everywhere I looked took my breath away and some brought me to tears. Now I cry for the people and the animals and the loss of so much forest. So many fires all across Canada in the last few years all causing devastating damage.

Communities across the country are asking for help to small towns and villages  that are not equipped to deal with all these new threats like fires ,floods and extreme heat. They say we need help to adapt to these climate changes and I have to agree. Humans are really good at adapting to new challenges and environments , it is probably the reason we are still here but we are fast facing our limits.  It scares the heck out of me.

On a lighter note, Mr Winston has a way with wild critters of all kinds (the kids call him Snow White) and has a red squirrel, a chipmunk and a cottontail eating out of his hand, literally. He recently befriended a blue jay who lands on his hand for peanuts. The problem is the bird mistaking me for him when I go out to garden or hang laundry to dry and coming out of nowhere to land on my head. I where a hat now.

stay safe

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@nerys I’m sorry I missed your reply, I wasn’t ignoring you 🙂 Just semi-sentient recovering from my trip. Like you, I’ve been ‘woke’ (ugh!) on climate change for a long time. The world can’t keep absorbing more people with a higher standard of living (and hence energy and materials consumption) forever. The old traditional methods of controlling the population viz. wars and epidemics are quite rightly considered inappropriate these days. Partly I think it’s also a spectacular failure of economics – the only successful economies seem to be ones that are continually growing and demanding more people or generating more waste. Howcome the economists can’t devise some regime that works with a static or shrinking economy without massive job losses and the like?

But then I’ve just been to France and England for a month with no excuse other than taking a holiday, so who am I to judge?

I do hope your in-laws in Calgary are all right and the wildfires are back under control.

[nerys @nerys]

@winston @dentarthurdent Thank you for your kind replies. Yes, my in-laws appear to be safe from this wildfire, which thankfully did not spread in their direction and is still 25 kilometres away from them. It is now classified as “being held” (meaning that given the current resources and anticipated weather, the wildfire is not expected to grow beyond pre-determined boundaries).

It’s so sad to think about Jasper, the community, and also the national park. I was somewhat relieved to learn that the entire town wasn’t leveled (which I had feared). But it’s still devastating for those whose homes and businesses were destroyed. And then there’s all the destruction to the larger home for the wildlife. Heartbreaking.

@ps1l0v3y0u Responding to your comment from On the Sofa 11:

The pictures of Jasper are horrific. When the UK had its record breaking day (40 degrees) 2 years ago about a 1/4 of a village called Wennington went up in flames. Tiny place. The fire started in an over-heated compost heap. Many years before I would cycle down the high street on the way to work… just a row of Victorian cottages and a 4 square medieval church. But it was the first rural place outside London. Familiar. Very much of a shock. Homes visibly destroyed. Horses running in panic. Nothing to what a Mediterranean country faces most years.

The reality of climate change is dwarfs the relevant debates and political manoeuvrings around what ought to be possible.

This conjures up horrific images, and a far more horrific reality for the people who lived through it. What you describe is very much what we here on the South Shore of Nova Scotia experienced last summer. When we moved here, I never imagined that we would face drought, much less wildfire, in such a moderate climate. And yet it has happened. In 2016, our drought was so severe that many wells (most of which had never run dry before) dried up. Most small communities in Nova Scotia have no municipal water supply, so people rely on their well water. It was surreal. We’re surrounded by ocean, but many people had no water in their homes to drink or cook and clean with.

Last summer’s wildfire was almost unimaginable. Because our groundwater supply was still diminished by the 2016 drought, we were already behind. Add in a hot, dry spring and human stupidity, and you’ve got the recipe for wildfire. We were saved by rainfall that started about a week after the wildfires erupted, and then didn’t let up. So we were fortunate in that way. It could have gone so differently. Firefighters here told me that if the rains hadn’t come, they couldn’t have stopped the fire. Most of Nova Scotia’s interior is forest, so they guess that without the rain, the wildfire would have burned across the province to the Bay of Fundy on the other side. It’s a terrifying thought, not only for the humans but for all the animals.

[ahr147 @ahr147]

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[ahr147 @ahr147]

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[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@winston @jeanetteb @nerys

Non Moff best eps

Series 1: Dalek. Nu Who has arrived.

Series 2: controversial… Rise of the Cyberman/Age of Steel, but only because I know Love and Monsters would be howled down

Series 3: controversial 2… Human Nature/Family of Blood should do it but it is saddled with that voice over exposition. Boo! The Shakespeare Code was fun. Expelliarmus!

Series 4: Turn Left. Midnight was excellent too but I like AU. Strong series.

Series 5: Amy’s Choice

Series 6: The Doctors Wife… though God Complex was a worthy challenger. Strong series, pity about Go to War and Hitler.

Series 7: Power of Three?? A Zchib story?? If not then Hide

Series 8: Flatline just pips Mummy on the Orient Express

Series 9: some people like the Zygon story but I found it a bit tiresome. Under the Lake/Before the Flood is flawed but pretty out there.

Series 10: Oxygen

Series 11: Scrape that barrel! It Takes You Away for originality

Series 12: Villa of the Wicked Poets for addressing the Lady Doctor issue. And good dialogue. Well dialogue rather than muh muhmuh muh

Series 13: no no no I can’t do it mummy!

Series 14: Dot and Bubble. 73 yards was fantastic too  but I don’t understand it (yet)

Specials, sundry, all eras: Waters of Mars. But only because End of Time is a Christmas Special

Christmas Specials: ironically, Voyage of the Damned

 

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u @winston @janetteb @nerys

I can’t resist a list like that, or rather, making my own.

Best non-Moff eps. (By the way, was there any season to which the Moff contributed in which the best ep of the season was NOT one of his?)

Season 1 – The End of the World was fun, visually, and satisfied the classic sci-fi trope of space aliens. Parting of the Ways was epic, Rose as Bad Wolf was visually stunning. But Dalek was an excellent ep too. I find it hard to judge – maybe I’ll give it to Dalek.

Season 2 – Girl in the Fireplace. (Oh hang on, who wrote that? – the Moff. What a surprise). Then, Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, both for its emotional impact and for the pissing match between the Daleks and the Cybermen (“Daleks, be warned. You have declared war upon the Cybermen.” “This is not war. This is pest control.”)

Season 3 – Blink, by a mile, and we all know who wrote that 🙂 Shakespeare Code was fun, but I think I have to give it to Human Instinct/Family of Blood.

Season 4 – I’d say, Midnight, very narrowly edging out Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead. (I think this is the ONLY season where the best ep was not by Moff).

Season 5 – Nothing outstanding. I’d be split between Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone and The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang but all those were Moff so I can discount them. Next best I’d say Vincent and the Doctor.

Season 6 – A cracker of a season. The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and The Wedding of River Song were Moffs, and equal best (IMO) with The Doctor’s Wife and The Girl Who Waited. The Doctor’s Wife was brilliant, but then The Girl Who Waited was so tragic in its dilemma – I just have to give them all first equal. I’d be useless as a judge.

Season 7 – Asylum of the Daleks (Moff again, as was The Snowmen and The Name of the Doctor, and does The Day of the Doctor count as part of this season?). Which leaves A Town Called Mercy (Toby Whithouse), Cold War (Mark Gatiss) and Hide (Neil Cross) – I’d pick A Town Called Mercy, just. (“Everyone who isn’t an American, drop your gun.”)

Season 8 – Listen (but that’s Moff, as were Dark Water/Death in Heaven) so Flatline (Jamie Mathieson) with Mummy on the Orient Express (also Jamie) as close runner-up.

Season 9 – Last Christmas, The Magician’s Apprentice, The Witch’s Familiar, Heaven Sent, Hell Bent – all Moff. Which leaves Face the Raven and The Zygon Invasion/Inversion, of which I’d (narrowly) pick the latter. Except the Moff shared a writing credit on those too. Okay, Face the Raven (I’m pretty sure Moff had a hand in that too, but his name isn’t on it).

Season 10 – Extremis. Oh, Moff again. Ditto World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls. Which kinda really just leaves Oxygen, Jamie Mathieson again. Eaters of Light was quite good too.

(And now the bar gets abruptly lowered to just a couple of inches above the ground…)

Season 11 – It Takes You Away, I suppose.

Season 12 – Fugitive of the Judoon, definitely. Resolution was not bad. Can You Hear Me – I must watch again, refresh my memory, it might be okay. And Villa Deodati I seem to remember was – okay.

Season 13 – Umm no. I can’t. Village of the Angels was the only one that had any good bits in it at all.

If we consider the specials that followed, Eve of the Daleks was actually *good*. I seem to recall Power of the Doctor was – okay.

And of the three Tennant specials, Wild Blue Yonder – by a mile. Really good. The bar just went back up to normal height.

Of the various specials Christmas and otherwise pre-Chibz (i.e. pre-Season 11), of which there were a plethora, I’d rate them Day of the Doctor (by a mile), Last Christmas, The Snowmen, The Time of the Doctor, then (rather sentimentally for me) A Christmas Carol – all by the Moff(!) – then Planet of the Dead by Russell T.

[nerys @nerys]

I feel like this series of posts may have been somehow redirected from The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances thread?

@dentarthurdent Season 4 – I’d say, Midnight, very narrowly edging out Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead. (I think this is the ONLY season where the best ep was not by Moff).

Season 7 – Asylum of the Daleks (Moff again, as was The Snowmen and The Name of the Doctor, and does The Day of the Doctor count as part of this season?).

You just named my other favorites: Midnight, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, Asylum of the Daleks and The Day of the Doctor 50th anniversary special, along with the two-parter The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances mentioned up top. If I have only those episodes to watch, I am a happy camper!

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@nerys

the challenge are to find the best episodes NOT written by Moffat.

As a friend of mine commented Moffat was the best writer for RTD, and also the best writer for Moffat. What of the others? What makes good Who?

To that end, I suggest, aside from the obvious ‘seasons’, the specials and Christmas Specials are their own categories, outside the arc and… into the world.

Or you can just pick your favourite stories, so long as  it’s not by Moff. Cos he’s too good.

[janetteB @janetteb]

I do like making lists. Had to refresh my memory of every series and make notes. So series by series,

Series 1 Dalek with an honourary mention for Bad Wolf.

Series 2 School Reunion because Sarah Jane Smith. This is in my view one of the worst series. There just were no other decent episodes except the obvious. (Girl in the Fireplace)

Series 3 Some “bangers” in this series. Human Nature/Family of Blood are outstanding. Gridlock is a close runner up, and Shakespeare Code was fun.

Series 4 Turn Left. Lots of good episodes, Fires of Pompeii, Planet of the Ood, Midnight.

Series 5 Vincent. Vampires of Venice is not bad. This series has the worst episode penned by Moffat, the Beast Below. (Not as bad as RTD’s worst)

Series 6. I could not choose any one not written by Moffat, I have never really liked The Doctor’s Wife so maybe The Girl who Waited.

Series 7 Cold War.

Series 8 Another solid season with one notable exception. Hard to chose a “best” but will settle for Mummy on the Orient Express because Jelly Babies with Flatline a very close runner up. Into the Dalek and Time Heist also very good.

Series 9 Face the Raven, followed by Under the Lake two parter.

Series 10 Eaters of Light. then Oxygen and Thin Ice.

Series 11 It Takes You Away. Love a fiord. Demons of the Punjab wasn’t bad. Witchfinders was silly but fun.

Series 12 Villa Diadati was watchable and featured Mary Shelley. But by now the bar is low as @dentarthurdent observed.

Series 13. I’d given up so nill.

Series 14 Yay, there is competition again. 73 Yards probably but Rogue would be a contender and Dot and Bubble is also worthy of a mention. I have not yet rewatched so this might change.

Cheers

Janette

 

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb Interesting list. We seem to broadly agree on most, but far from all – which is as it should be.

Was The Beast Below Moffat’s worst? – probably. I can’t think of any worse ones. Um, how about The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe (checks – yep that was the Moff’s). I’d say that was his least good in the sense of, just not having anything notable or memorable about it. (And if that’s the worst I can say about Moff’s worst ep, it just shows how high his standard is).

So what, in your view, was RTD’s worst? Personally I won’t say Love & Monsters, not because I wish to avoid a rocket from ps1l0v3y0u, but because I have a soft spot for the little fans’ social club – it reminds me a bit of this website, actually. What fans do when they’re not fanning. I can’t really find a RTD ep that I consider to be unusually bad.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@dentarthurdent I like The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe. Trees that grow baubles, Manny, and likeable kids, especially the Doctor. Matt Smith worked well with children. He played well to the childish side of the Doctor.

I would have voted Love and Monsters as RTD’s worst (avoiding rockets) however I think the first two episodes of this most recent series would be contenders for that award. I agree it started out well with the fan club. It just went downhill sharply. The rest of RTD’s are generally good. I did not like the specials, and really didn’t like the Tennant finals. (I don’t even remember the names of those because I have never re-watched. Tried and gave up.)

Cheers

Janette.

 

[nerys @nerys]

@ps1l0v3y0u the challenge are to find the best episodes NOT written by Moffat.

Ah, OK, thanks for clarifying! Often I am slow on the uptake.

That really is a challenge for me, because obviously those Moffat episodes are my favorites. The only ones I can think of are:

“Smith and Jones” – March 2007 season opener introducing the Doctor’s new companion, Martha, written by Russell T. Davies (Our Doctor Who viewing had been interrupted because, as I recall, the channel we were watching it on kept switching its time slot, so we never knew when it was on. We watched this episode on the plane while flying to Denmark. We liked it so much that we vowed to search for Doctor Who‘s time slot when we returned.)

“The Fires of Pompeii” – April 2008, second episode of Season 4, written by James Moran (This is when I began to warm up to Donna, because she shows genuine shock when she realizes that the Doctor can’t save anyone … though, after she pleads with him, he relents and saves Caecilius and his family.)

“Vincent and the Doctor” – June 2010, 10th episode of Season 5, written by Richard Curtis (This may have been the first episode I watched featuring Matt Smith’s Doctor and his companion, Amy. I so loved David Tennant that I had resisted watching this new Doctor for quite some time. But once I started, I was hooked.)

“The Power of Three” – September 2012, fourth episode of Season 7, written by Chris Chibnall (one of the few episodes of his that I genuinely like)

There’s a nearly 10-year gap, because I simply can’t find any non-Moffat-penned episodes in the interim that rise above the rest.

“Eve of the Daleks” – January 2022 New Year’s special, written by Chris Chibnall (surprisingly, given his writing overall for the 13th Doctor)

P.S. I’m reminded that another favorite episode is “Last Christmas” … but, of course, it’s a Christmas special, and it was written by Moffat. And I loved “Heaven Sent” (also written by Moffat), but not so much the “Hell Bent” conclusion. Oh, and “The Angels Take Manhattan” … yeah, Moffat again.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@nerys @dentarthurdent @janetteb

It’s interesting that there seems to be broad agreement here… I guess that a lot of the chosen episodes either show:

a strong sci fi idea

or a good spiky script ala Moff, even if it’s not Moff

Moff and Mathieson alone deliver both the swerves and the big image… this is what foxed everyone in Empty Child/Dances. It’s gasmask zombies and The Doctor’s valediction for the Time War but actually it does seem to be the start of a ménage à trois. Or we are misreading the script? Let’s face it, we’re not.

Personally, I like,

AU

reference to speculative physics that isn’t dumb

ditto classic sci fi, ditto not dumb.

Don’t like…

exposition. You CAN tell and not show. It’s how you do it. Rassilon gives us a sermon. It’s a bit ridiculous but it is Christmas and RTD also delivers The Master Race… after a brief foray into Prisoner Cell Bock H. Well it was brief.

Also Uncritical fantasy. In particular worship of CS Lewis. To paraphrase Pratchett, ‘if you didn’t like him when you were ten, there was something wrong with you. If you still like him when you’re seventeen, you are an Incel.’

Ludicrous plot devices. You get a lot of those. Oh for the complex simplicity of Blink.

Continuity? You got to do it right. And no one will like you for it even if you do manage it.

Bad Moff? Beast Below was a bit average… reworking of an unmade classic script. Not sure about Flesh and Stone/Time of Angels, or Go to War/Kill Hitler. Brilliant bits. Do either really add to the arc? Hitler in the cupboard in  1938, Tesselector rocks up. Hmmm. Are Rory’s actions suddenly a fixed point in time?

 

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb I wouldn’t say The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe is a _bad_ episode. It just didn’t do anything much for me – I guess that’s a matter of personal taste.
In general those vaguely Dickensian ones (Lewisian ones?) don’t appeal to me. One that I did really like – which surprised me – was A Christmas Carol.

Of the specials, I really like about half of them. The Day of the Doctor, Last Christmas, The Time of the Doctor, and so on.

Some of them are tied right into the ongoing plot (such as those I mentioned), others are standalones and have no bearing on the series, such as The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe, Return of Dr Mysterio, A Christmas Carol, etc etc.

The Tennant finals – my reactions are mixed. The Next Doctor is one of those forgettable ones. Planet of the Dead was fun, I loved Lady Christina. The Waters of Mars was just too angsty for me. The End of Time, I liked, I thought Timothy Dalton was excellent as Rasillon (ever notice what a masterful voice he has?), I liked the clash between him and The Master (I think this was the best of the John Sim – Master eps if you discount World Enough and Time), and I thought the spiky green people were fun – Sinead Keenan does ‘exasperated’ relly well. Didn’t much like the way Wilf managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and Ten got a bit too emotional.

@nerys I see you too have a minor problem with finding really good episodes not written by Moffat 🙂 I do agree about Eve of the Daleks – far and away Chibs’ best episode, I think.

Vincent and the Doctor drew me back to Who, exactly as it did you. I’d somehow drifted away after the first couple of Amy episodes (The Beast Below, I think), then – in a completely different non-Who-related forum – I saw a reference to the Louvre scene – and I’ve always liked Bill Nighy (the curator) – which caused me to watch the episode, then jumped back to the start of Season 5.

I do love Last Christmas – sarcastic dwarves. Santa pointing out how unlikely he is. Dreams within dreams. Unlike you I absolutely loved Hell Bent, particularly the diner scene where you’re not sure which of them actually knows, until the last moment – Moffat does those multi-layer scenes so well.

@ps1l0v3y0u You’re being cryptic again. What’s ‘AU’?

I do agree about too much exposition and the preferability of ‘show not tell.’ Whitdoc is a particular offender in the talking-too-much stakes. I thought Rassilon (I assume you’re talking about The End of Time?) got away with it, mostly because of Timothy Dalton’s delivery. It’s a gift a few actors have, of imbuing their words with significance. I thought the Tesselector was a brilliant invention, though its raison d’etre – taking revenge on bad people – seemed somehow both petty and a vastly insufficient justification for such a sophisticated piece of technology.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@dentarthurdent. The only specials I am not keen on were those at the end of Tennant’s first run. Perhaps I should re watch the End of Time. It might be deserving of a second chance.

I am a fan of all the Christmas Specials though I didn’t mention them as they are mostly Moffat’s and I love Dickens so the Dickensian elements are fine with me. Last Christmas is probably the best of them. Husbands of River Song maybe the worst. It does not start of well but that scene on the spaceship when she realises that the Doctor is indeed standing there next to her gets me every time. It makes the episode worth watching.

RTD’s Christmas Specials were pretty good too. I disliked the giant stompy robot crushing half of London that nobody ever heard of in The Next Doctor. Liked the episode, except from some wacky costuming, up to that point. Why no mention of something that destructive in history? Moffat gets a pass for the dinosaur in the Thames because it is explained. Maybe not a particularly convincing explanation but at least Moffat tries.

Cheers

Janette

 

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent @nerys @janetteb

AU… alternative universe: generally it adds a new perspective to the run of the mill stuff we’ve become too comfortable with. Always tell a story 2 different ways if you can.

exposition… it’s a sign that the story can’t be resolved through narrative and really doesn’t add anything.

So Family of Blood. The voice over at the end, mixing science and fantasy is supposed to be the Baines Scarecrow. How is he stuck there? And how does he protect England? How do you trap a girl in a mirror? Event Horizon? Cool, but at what point does Mum get sufficiently irradiated? One feature of the messy end to what should have continued as a fantastic story.

The Time of The Doctor. An unusual Christmas Story. I loved the first twenty minutes: Clara’s Turkey, Tasha Lem talking urban, but the siege was rubbish and the voice over a very unsatisfying filling in of the stuff that hadn’t been explained in series 6. Without explaining most of it. Again. Actually that is probably the worst Moff story.

The End Of Time. Skeletor vs Food. ‘They’re going to BE me!’ ‘Financial Crisis? Deleted!’ But then it kicked off with Prisoner Cell Block H. Hmmm. And part 2 was quite tedious in places. Here, the exposition, like Sardik in A Christmas Carol, was an attempt to ‘do’ Christmas. RTD obviously HATES Christmas so Dalton treats us to the full 9 lessons. Annoying. Didn’t get it at first. But allowable. The real problem is the story is overlong.

Lastly Fugitive of the Judoon. It was pretty incoherent. I wanted to know about Lee. Open goal really. That could have been a 2 parter if not a properly constructed arc. And police box tardis?? We’ve discussed this. Wherefore Impossible Girl’s sales rap in Name of the Doctor? Is it a mistake? Is Ruth really post 1? I go back to 2’s regeneration…

 

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent @nerys @janetteb

AU… alternative universe: generally it adds a new perspective to the run of the mill stuff we’ve become too comfortable with. Always tell a story 2 different ways if you can.

exposition… it’s a sign that the story can’t be resolved through narrative and really doesn’t add anything.

So Family of Blood. The voice over at the end, mixing science and fantasy is supposed to be the Baines Scarecrow. How is he stuck there? And how does he protect England? How do you trap a girl in a mirror? Event Horizon? Cool, but at what point does Mum get sufficiently irradiated? One feature of the messy end to what should have continued as a fantastic story.

The Time of The Doctor. An unusual Christmas Story. I loved the first twenty minutes: Clara’s Turkey, Tasha Lem talking urban, but the siege was rubbish and the voice over a very unsatisfying filling in of the stuff that hadn’t been explained in series 6. Without explaining most of it. Again. Actually that is probably the worst Moff story.

The End Of Time. Skeletor vs Food. ‘They’re going to BE me!’ ‘Financial Crisis? Deleted!’ But then it kicked off with Prisoner Cell Block H. Hmmm. And part 2 was quite tedious in places. Here, the exposition, like Sardik in A Christmas Carol, was an attempt to ‘do’ Christmas. RTD obviously HATES Christmas so Dalton treats us to the full 9 lessons. Annoying. Didn’t get it at first. But allowable. The real problem is the story is overlong.

Lastly Fugitive of the Judoon. It was pretty incoherent. I wanted to know about Lee. Open goal really. That could have been a 2 parter if not a properly constructed arc. And police box tardis?? We’ve discussed this. Wherefore Impossible Girl’s sales rap in Name of the Doctor? Is it a mistake? Is Ruth really post 1? I go back to 2’s regeneration…

 

[nerys @nerys]

@dentarthurdent I do love Last Christmas – sarcastic dwarves. Santa pointing out how unlikely he is. Dreams within dreams. Unlike you I absolutely loved Hell Bent, particularly the diner scene where you’re not sure which of them actually knows, until the last moment – Moffat does those multi-layer scenes so well.

It’s not that I don’t like “Hell Bent” … but somehow I didn’t feel the catharsis I was expecting, given that it was Clara’s last episode, so it was a bit disappointing in that way. I liked it more on subsequent viewings, but it still didn’t quite come together for me the way it did for you and others.

[winston @winston]

@ps1l0v3y0u  @nerys   @janetteb  @dentarthurdent   I am late to the table but here goes my attempt at my favourite non Moffat episodes for each series.

1.  Dalek     The 9th Doctors reaction when he saw the Dalek and his frenzied attempt to get away let me know  how dangerous they were and the Doctors contemptuous rant  was some pretty great acting.

2. School Reunion    Sarah Jane and K9  and  Mickey. The Doctor is forced to explain to Sarah Jane why he just left her in Croydon and she gets some closure.

3. Gridlock     What can I say? I like cat people.

4.  Fires of Pompeii    Donna’s rage against fate and history is heart wrenching reminding me of times when I felt utterly unable to change the unfair and unjust.I also really like Peter Capaldi in this episode.

5. Vincent and The Doctor    My favourite episode of all!  All the feels.

6. The Doctors Wife.   I love the mad bitey woman and am scared of House. It has a sad but beautiful ending.

7.Hide  The casting was perfect as was the set and it had a happy ending, kinda.

8. Mummy on the Orient Express  It had excellent music, jazzy clothes,  a mystery and Frank Skinner.

9. Zygons because of the Doctors emotional plea for peace.So good.

10. Oxygen    I actually think this one is depressing.

I am still working on which are my favourites for series 11 and on.

stay safe

4.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@winston I liked the cat people in Gridlock too. And kittens!! and Father Dougal though when I first watched Gridlock I had only seen him in My Hero. Not a great comedy series but the boys liked it when they were young.

Oxygen is depressing but very good.

cheers

Janette

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb I think The End of Time deserves a second chance. It has a lot of good things in it – the climax was the sort of three-way duel between the Doctor, John Sim’s Master and Rassilon, where we’re not sure which way they’re going to jump. Sarcastic spiky green people. The Master turning all of humanity into replicas of himself. And so on.

I agree that Last Christmas was the best of the specifically Christmas specials. And Husbands of River Song definitely the weakest – though it had a sweet ending. (I keep confusing it with The Wedding of River Song, for obvious reasons connected with the title, though the two are nothing alike. My favourite line from the latter – “River Song didn’t get it all from you, sweetie”. (That has to be taken in context to get the full implication of that).

The Next Doctor – yes I agree that was pretty weak. I did like Rosita, the (Next) Doctor’s assistant, even though he seemed to be blind to her affection for him. Seems to be almost a theme for RTD Doctors. And I do agree about the giant stompy robot. The Moff did seem more conscious of the problem – as with Day of the Doctor – KATE: What’s our cover story for this? OSGOOD: Er, Derren Brown. KATE: Again? OSGOOD: We’ve sent him flowers.

@ps1l0v3y0u I do have to agree, Time of the Doctor started out really well (I loved Tasha Lem) but it sort of faded later, the siege was rubbish. Fugitive of the Judoon, in a Moffat season, would count as a middling ep, probably not worst of season. In a Chibz season it seems much better by comparison, such that nitpicking Ruth’s police box seems like – nitpicking. And wasn’t it nice to have a proper Tardis interior as a change from the Crystal Grotto?

@winston I actually agree with about half of your list, and the ones where I picked a different episode, I would still happily watch your pick. Oxygen, as janetteb commented, is depressing but very good. World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls come in the same category – with less expert writing they would be too gloomy to watch, as it is they are compulsive viewing (at least for me). (Yeah I know they’re Moff episodes so excluded from comparison, this is just an aside remark from me 🙂

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

RTD Christmas Specials, apart from EoT, but more specifically VoD, were serviceable but a bit drab. The Next Doctor was a regeneration tease, and part of the Doctor sans companion arc. I liked Dervla Kirwan… oh and ‘that is designated A LIE!’

We’re comparing that with Moff, who turned Christmas Who into a fantastic panto-like experience. The second, The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe (which turned out to be card box didn’t it?) underwhelmed, but criticism is a bit unfair; there were a lot of nice touches. Maybe it’s the cast. I mean everyone is good these days, but you can’t always have Michael Gambon. He made Christmas Carol. How nervous must Matt Smith have been, playing against him??

Later Moff xmas fare? I’ve heard people knock Dr Mysterio and it’s ‘Brixtonesque Manhattan’ but it was charming really.

The Snowmen was odd because not everybody lived. A redemption story ought to be appropriate… but can you successfully splice redemption and continuity? It’s just a little uncomfortable.

‘Husbands’ was fantastic. Probably didn’t do Moff’s Who career any favours and the final shot was a bit ill judged. Otherwise, the only time Greg Davies made me laugh: ‘do NOT put the head in the bag!’

Last Christmas was a thing of wonder… though I still wonder about the volcanic landscape at the end.

The Time of the Doctor… the beginning promised so much. Exposition: never use it but, if you do, make a deal at the crossroads. The actual regeneration scene was very moving. A curate’s egg.

Twice Upon a Time… was fine. Subtle stuff, like the western front meshed with the crapsack woild of ‘unshelled’ daleks. The dialogue between the Doctors. Jobs for loyal allies. Underwhelming? Well, it is the other Moff regeneration story… it’s not an evil plot, but it is half way through the dark.

Well done.

 

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u I think that’s quite a good summary. Voyage of the Damned – I though Kylie Minogue made that episode. There was something refreshing about Astrid Peth’s slightly naive enthusiasm, and she managed to not be annoying (which is always an occupational hazard with such characters).
Christmas Carol was, as you say, made by Michael Gambon, and had the fantastic twist that keeping Abigail on ice was not from evil intent, but well-intentioned because she only had a few days runtime left.

Dr Mysterio was fun. Like Husbands of River Song before it (and remembering that I watched all these in sequence one after the other with only a day or two in between) it suffered from following the climactic Heaven Sent/Hell Bent so could only be an anticlimax. But it was a good parody of the Batman/Superman genre.

Last Christmas – aside from being great fun – was, I think, as precisely plotted as Blink. A little confusing on first watch through, (not surprising since the Dream Crabs relied on deception), but I think the clues were there and it all followed logically and satisfyingly.

Twice Upon a Time – also slightly anticlimactic after World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls, but entertaining enough, even if the Doctor hardly needed to do anything (“It isn’t an evil plan. I don’t know what to do when it isn’t an evil plan!”) And I did like, very much, that the Doctor’s memories of Clara were restored.

[winston @winston]

@janetteb  @dentarthurdent   @ps1l0v3y0u   @nerys    I really enjoy the Christmas episodes and watch them again every year in order. I like them all though of course I have some favourites like The Husbands of River Song and Doctor Mysterio and Voyage of the Damned. I like the fun ones I guess and I appreciate some others for being great episodes if not cheerful ones.

Since I was a kid I have liked it when my favourite TV shows have their Christmas episodes and I still do, so I am not a very good critic. Give me a hot chocolate, a comfy chair by the fire and any Doctor Who Christmas special and I am a happy camper. It almost makes me look forward to winter………almost.

stay safe

[janetteB @janetteb]

@winston we watch the Christmas episodes every Christmas too in order. We usually start in early December but never seem to get through them all so our Christmas sounds a lot like yours only in our case it is usually hitting 40c and we are worrying about whether the garden will make it through another blasting summer and hoping there will not be too many bushfires.Doctor Who is a welcome relief from all that. I particularly like the episodes that feature snow.

I am really looking forward to this year’s special. Moffat and Christmas go together. He does whimsical well. (I am currently watching Douglas is Cancelled. Not whimsical but very Moffat.)

cheers

Janette

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

20th August is Sylvester McCoy, Sophie Aldred’s birthday (81 and 62 respectively). Also Anthony Ainley’s, who would have been 92.

Quite the coincidence.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@whohar I did not know that. They worked so well together and shared a birthday along with their favourite enemy. (Was the Master in the McCoy series? I have only watched the later ones.)  A now belated Happy Birthday to Sylvester and Sophie.

I know that several Doctors have birthdays in April but that is due to personal bias. My S/O shares a birthday with David Tennant.

Cheers

Janette

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb The Master was definitely in the very last story of Seven and Ace, Survival.

Do I take it from your previous post that Moff is doing the Christmas special? Or am I reading too much into it?

[janetteB @janetteb]

@dentarthurdent I should remember that because I have watched Survival but it was a long time ago.

Yes Moffat is doing the Christmas Special. (I hope that doesn’t count as a Spoiler.)

Cheers

Janette

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb I’m fairly certain the identity of the writer can’t be a spoiler. I think a spoiler has to disclose an unexpected character or event in the plot of the episode itself, thus generating an element of surprise. Take the episode I’ve just watched, ‘Fugitive of the Judoon’ – I don’t think ‘It takes place in Gloucester’ could be a spoiler, or ‘Ruth is a tour guide’, since any other town could be substituted without affecting the plot, as could any other occupation for Ruth. The identity of Ruth would be a major spoiler, as would the result of the final confrontation. (I hope I haven’t trod too near the line…)

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb I meant, a spoiler has to undercut an element of surprise. Not literally what I said. The opposite in fact. What a surprise 🙂

[janetteB @janetteb]

@dentarthurdent I did not think it would be but some people are very sensitive when it comes to spoilers. The question of what is or isn’t a spoiler has led to many a heated family argument in our household.

A Christmas Special written by Moffat is really more of a present than a spoiler.

As to meaning the opposite of what one says, we are currently doing driving lessons with son2 and constantly saying the opposite of what we mean, “left, no I mean right,” , “turn, no keep going.” (We have currently done about 20 hours out of 65. As people who rarely venture beyond the boundaries of our provincial town it is proving challenging.

Cheers

Janette

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb Um driving lessons. Did the Doctor ever give driving lessons in anything but the Tardis? (And Mattdoc, I think, always left the handbrake on).
I can probably safely tell this now – when I first worked for Ministry of Works in Rarotonga, my girlfriend (now Mrs D) and I only had bikes. There was a visiting engineer due in on the Sunday plane, for whom the MoW rented a little car – I picked it up on the Friday, and it was parked outside our flat waiting for me to meet him with it. And my gf kept asking me ‘give me a driving lesson in it’. Eventually I weakened and asked “Can you drive?” and she said “Yes.” So off we set, across the deserted golf course (which is laid out around the radio station with huge masts and guy wires as hazards). So – we were obstacle-dodging on the golf course (where we shouldn’t have been) in a car which I shouldn’t have been driving at that time, never mind my gf who should never have driven it, if we cracked up on one of those guy wires I could think of absolutely no story that wouldn’t get me even deeper in it. After a brief but agonisingly long excursion we successfully made it back in one piece. So I said to gf, “When did you drive a car before?” “I said I could, I never said I had!”
All I could do is laugh, for a first-time driver she was quite good. Her motor-bike experience doubtless helped.
Best of luck with son2.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Coming for Christmas!

Same trailer, but with new photos.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt17163970/?ref_=tt_mv_close

@janetteb

I immediately thought of you when I saw  this, remembering your response when I posted the trailer a while back.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@blenkinsopthebrave I do like Wallace and Gromit. The original three films have a lot of happy associations for me, good times at work, (few and far between) old friends and of course the boys when they were young. Our eldest was given a Wallace soft toy for his second birthday and he loved that toy so much.  Still have it of course. It was later joined by a Gromit toy, then a penguin and a sheep. We also collected the little plastic figures from cereal packets.They are lined up on a bookcase. Oh and the eldest now how a set of spaceships on his bedroom door. (Almost as much Wallace and Gromit merch as Dr Who merch in this house.)

cheers

Janette

[Maria Kristen @mariakristen]

I’m Maria Kirsten, a proud team member at Tops and Bottoms USA, a premier fashion store. With a passion for style and a commitment to helping customers find their perfect look, I strive to enhance every shopping experience. My dedication to excellence and customer satisfaction drives my work, making me an integral part of the Tops and Bottoms family. godspeed clothing

[winston @winston]

@janetteb We always enjoyed Wallace and Gromit in our house , they were great family movies. I also admit to a fondness for Shaun the Sheep. He is one tricky sheep!

I recently found a Pop figure of the 12th Doctor (still in his box) at our charity shop and I bought him for 3 dollars. I don’t usually buy merch but my kids give me stuff as gifts and I have ended up with quite a lot of it. I had to buy it because after years of looking I have only found 2 dvds and 1 vhs tape in any charity shop I’ve searched in. Plus how could I leave the 12th Doctor there surrounded by DC characters? Would he like Batman or the Joker?

Stay safe

 

[janetteB @janetteb]

@winston. I just typed out a long reply and got logged out when posting. grrr.

You did well to rescue the Doctor from the DC merch. I have never found any Dr Who merch at charity shops, (called opp shops in oz) I did find two Terry Pratchett books yesterday amid boxes of books and dvds that were donated to the librayr/youth centre so that was a find. There was one Dr Who book but it wasn’t a very interesting one so I left it. There are more boxes of dvds to be unpacked so I will be keeping an eye out for Dr Who dvds.

Cheers

Janette

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb I feel your pain 🙂 I’ve done that many times – written a screed and then clicked away for a moment and ‘lost’ the page, for example.
What I do now (if it’s going to be a long post) is write it in a text editor, then just copy & paste it into the forum edit box.

I just watched The Star Beast, by the way. Might post on that soon.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Forgive me if someone got here ahead of me.

The actual anniversary of Susan!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly6kx3ywq4o

So! No impersonators???

Pity. I always thought Wilf’s phantasm woman might be her. It’s in the eyes…

[janetteB @janetteb]

Greetings all.

Sorry for not posting for so long. I have been trying to keep up with all the discussions but always seem to be either too busy or too tired or I start a response but never finish it.

@ps1l0v3y0u It would be so cool for Susan to reappear but she is a timelord and can regenerate. Maybe in fairness Carol Ann Ford should be the older Susan who has spent her life on earth, trying to work out how to get back too the Tardis and adventures with “Grandfather” and is due for regeneration, thus introducing a new Susan.  (I was never a fan of C.A.F. but I liked the idea of the character.)

So we have just returned from a trip to the Flinders, tried ‘bush camping”. It was an interesting experience. We arrived at about 3.00 pm, it was nearing 40c, unexpected in early October, the flies were thicker than the dust, and there was only a thin lacework of shade thrown by a couple of spindly gums. We had to wait to dust to put up the tents then we found that the blow up mattress could not be blown up, so the S/O was grumpy, and the BBQ was missing the hose, so the S/O and two sons were grumpy and we could not get out of the camp ground because it is too dangerous to drive at dusk due to ‘roos and the road in and out was so corrogated that we did not want to drive over it any more than necessary. We did manage to rustle up a very modest camp fire, and were able to open up the tents for ventilation. The flies eventually dissipated and we tried to ignore the little shining lights reflecting in our head torches that were indeed spider eyes. We did have a lovely view of the rangers however and we succeeded in putting up the tent without any swearing. So small wins.

the following morning we drove around to the other side of the ranges, the scenic side. Turns out we were camping on the desert side. It had rained and there were roos all along the road drinking water from the edge of the bitumen. Emus were out grazing in the wet grass and peregrine falcons were drifting overhead. It was more than compensation for the previous night.

And now I am home and looking at the lists of jobs to be done left on my keyboard. Hey ho. I will deal with them all tomorrow.

Cheers

Janette

 

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

new trailer

coming this Christmas in the UK and Jan 3 everywhere else.

 

[janetteB @janetteb]

@blenkinsopthebrave That is truely terrifying. I can’t wait.

Cheers

Janette

[winston @winston]

@janetteb   I loved your camping story and like real troopers you all made the best with what you had.The animal life all around you sounds wonderful!  I have been camping since I was a child and we always took our kids as they grew up. It is a great way to spend time with your family enjoying being outside in the real world, until they are teens and then it could be like the Lord of the Flies. Years later I realize that the best memories involve some sort of  camping disaster like a leaky air bed or 4 days of rain or raccoons that go through all your stuff as loudly as they want as soon as you go to bed. When we were camping on Vancouver Island on the Pacific coast it rained so much that our tent not only leaked but actually had a couple of inches of water on the floor. As the night wore on and the rain kept falling me and the husband and our very big dog moved as close together as we could in the middle of the air mattress to avoid the water.It was a long, wet and miserable night.We crawled out the next morning to the sun shining and the beautiful ocean in front of us and mountains behind us.What a view!

I hope you have a great week.

stay safe

[WhoHar @whohar]

Gallifreyan Translator:

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