[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

Even though the trails of the formation of UNIT has been found, has the secret of  Lethbridge-Stewart been uncovered yet? How can a guy retire from UNIT, even before he is UNIT?

The latest episode seems even more convoluted and surprisingly stagnant when it comes to the timeline of the Brigadier. Does anyone have any insights?

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

Welcome to the new members. I am a new member myself. Few weeks old. Have been inactive for a few days…

 

I am liking the threads that are bringing up Sarah Jane Smith and K9. They, specially Sarah Jane, were my favorite plot points/topics/interests in Classic Who. As well as after the revival.

Like Tom Baker (And the character of Romana II), Sarah Jane had become the advertised face; the notion to transitively link back to the show called Doctor Who.

Plus her body language was refreshingly funny and witty.

A lot of characters were funny, but the inception and enunciation of a line like “I could murder a cup of coffee..”; her delivery and sense of using the term murder. It’s both equally funny and erratic.

Plus her expressions were golden. Specially when 3 regenerates to 4. It’s like the Brigadiers’ expressions of “I am so done with this space-hobo with teeth and curls, but oh…wait, we need him still” was carried on to her for a moment or two.

 

 

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

@winston

Thank you for the warm embrace and kind words. Double the amount of thanks for mentioning those.

Those are the little moments I had absolutely forgotten about. Now that you mention it, I absolutely want to embiggen my list by tenfold! 😛

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

Hi,

David Bonanz here…

 

Wholesome Who: Moments in Time

Doctor Who is undoubtedly one of the greatest shows on Earth. Probably one of the only shows in Television history, where even the weirdest ideas are canonical and mainstream, which is what I love about it. Sure, it has its wibbly-wobbly moments. But there are some moments that you just live for. Some scenes that feel wholesome and nostalgic. Not heroic and fast-paced, always. But one to remember, nevertheless.

11th Doctor

The 11th Doctor had quite a few such moments.

• Vincent Van Gogh discovering his legacy
• “Hello, I am the Doctor”
• -“The one thing you never place in a trap – Me!”
• Discovering the links between Oswin Oswald and Clara Oswin Oswald
  Looking back, I would say 11th had quite a few good and underrated moments during his tenure as the Doctor

Other such moments include:

• 10th saving River in the Library; gives a good fulfilling aftertaste in your mouth that makes you happy how the episode ended
• Tom Baker’s intro as the Doctor. Even the 3rd Doctor had some fumy moments in his first outing as the Doctor
• 3rd straight-up ignoring Brigadier Stewart, and the Brigadier and his eye-rolls!
• River realizing who the 12th was and him saying “…Hello Sweetie!”
• David Bradley’s entry at the end of The Doctor Falls/World Enough and Time
• David Bradley’s parallel with Sir Hartnell, scene to scene recreation, with the background music
• 11’s theme song as a whole, in any scene
• 10 and Donna’s unspoken reunion in Partners in Crime (probably one of the best)

What’s your go-to list of wholesome moments and memories in all of Doctor Who

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

@ichabod

But, We have already had the best female Doctor ever! With all the aforementioned qualities you just stated.

It’s Joanna Lumley! She even had the best Sonic Screwdriver ever made by any Gallifreyan.

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

@missy

Thanks for the reception

I personally do not feel that the new series and methodology has taken that much of a turn to be a different kind of travesty for sure. That is one thing I like about Whoniverse the most; the long-running legacy and the fact that one completes and complements the other. Both classic and new Who. Both have their faults and both have peaked at times. Whoniverse is a product of both put together.

Just today I was commenting elsewhere that where does the Doctor lore get its authoritative stance of being a proper “badass”;  pardon my usage of the term. Where does the characterization take a turn from “Savior” to “Warrior”; like River suggested in A Good man goes to War. Is it a product of the Classics or New Who.

I would suppose it is both.

7th and Warrior played the biggest parts in that. 6 was brash and 8 had muck-ups, but compared to those two, they were soft kitties. The Warrior accidentally destroyed the whole population of Loshann and resulted in the death of Fey Truscott, in a botched mission. In a risk he did not have to take. Even the War Valeyard (Valeyard being a deeper and darker aspect of the Doctor himself, did something similar). Most of the reverence yet profound sense of fear by some, put into the word ‘Doctor’ comes from 7th. He was super-manipulative, even to his own companions, like Ace. He manipulated the Daleks to pretty much fire upon themselves. He took the rigorous acts of war as a gospel. “All is fair in love and war” was probably his motto. The Warrior and his efforts are what has earned him so many nicknames such as the Butcher of Skull Moon, oncoming storm. He was basically a Dalek-destruction engine. The theme was already present in classic Who. But it reprised after new Who, once Gallifrey was destroyed, I think. You don’t just up and destroy your own planet like it’s a Tuesday. Nine had the best portrayal of the pain that caused him, considering that he had let Gallifrey burn. He never chose to be like that again. But 10, 11 and 12 had the subtlety of hinting the “Time Lord Victorious” traces and urges between them. They had a different kind of passion (1o and 11). In some ways they would openly own up to burning down Gallifrey (House says to fear him cause he has killed many Time Lords; 11: “Fear me, …I’ve killed them ALL!”). In the comical arc The Fourth Doctor, the Voords detonate a continuity bomb that shows the multi-Doctors their worst possible outcomes, while they themselves are viewing them, as Time Ghosts. 10, 11 and 12 were present. But the 9th wasn’t called, even though he was post-Time war (The Last Great Time War). The other Doctors deduce that this is because the 9th, along with Rose Tyler, never chose to be anything less but ‘fantastic’ for the rest of his life and tenure as the Doctor. 10-12 did not have that in them. There were darker shades. I suppose to complement this, the lore of the Time War and the sense of urgency and utter desperation put into it, was stretched over the years. To balance out the “Time Lord Victorious” urges, companionship such as Amy and Clara was produced. And to balance out the Doctor’s actions, the War Master and War Valeyard, even War Susan, the efforts of President Romana after she thinks Leela has died, were introduced. All in all, I would say it is a product of both classic and New Who. But more so- the decision to let Gallifrey burn. If Gallifrey were to be intact, they could have left off, considering 7th to be manipulative and dangerous as an incarnation. But the loss of Gallifrey meant that the Doctor had to be a Time Lord victorious by other means and wins.

Then came the question of the rights and revival of monster-characters like the Daleks. Would New Who still be the same without Daleks? How would things have gone about if they weren’t revived?

Rob Shearman was of the idea to put out the notion of a form of humanity (or extraterrestrial humanoid cultures) to be its own enemy. Like Mutated version like Toclafane, that came after Daleks. He said-

“I think the cleverness of Russell’s idea is as exactly has been said – that the only other Big Bad that would have worked as the opponents in the Time War was humanity itself. But my draft of it was sold upon the mystery of their identity. The idea was that somewhere, out of the blue, this unknown alien race had appeared and attacked all sentient life – wiping out in the process races like the Daleks, and decimating ones like the Gelth. When the Doctor annihilated both Time Lords and enemy alike, he still would have had no idea what they might have been. He’d have destroyed them without ever knowing what it was that had cost him his own planet, and that would have haunted him.”

The thing Toclafane and Daleks have in common is us; the human element in the viewers. Which is why despite all that the Master has done over the years, many watchers are of the view that converting the last of the humans to the Toclafane was the worst. It is true that in a sense, that was an act of mercy, as they were cannibalized by that point. But my perfect headcanon is that somebody as skilled as the Master would have found other ways to revitalize their life-mechanisms without hacking their limbs off and sticking them into balls, like a kill-machine of his own. i suppose as merciful as that was, it was mostly for his own selfish reasons for carrying out the Invasion on Sol-3. There is always a precarious trend of exploring the darker sides of humanity and considering it the worst dangers to ourselves. This thread of thought has been explored multiple times in Doctor Who, where human are worse than the extraterrestrials they fear (Torchwood attacking the Sycorax, burning down the troop-ships of Sontaran Temporal Command when they were retreating, the killing of a tied-up Silurian by a human and the threat of wiping out their civilization, shown many times in televised Doctor Who). Toclafane would fit well into that mold. But the greater aspect of the designs of Toclafane is the human-factor, like I said. Same goes for the Daleks. The Kaleds were mutated and stuck inside Dalekanium armor shells. So our minds dread to think what they would be like inside that shell. What life would be like for any such humanoids, stuck up in shall or rolled up in a ball, even us, albeit the difference in origins. I suppose that is the factor that went into play with the creation of Toclafane, and partly the classic Daleks. My headcanon would be that, without the Daleks or any other mutated form of humanoid, we would revert back to storytelling exploring the evil in the likes of humanoids themselves. Like the Gallifreyans. Their pompous arrogance, their sanctimonious status quo reverberating throughout galaxies as the self-proclaimed Lords of Time. The hidden evil and geopolitical shrewdness hidden amidst their aristocracy, and so on. Their willingness and discriminative stances to look down upon other civilizations. Extreme measures taken at the peril of harming other races, and cover-ups. I think Gallifrey would have been a could topic to venture.

So the storytelling had to re-tweak and remodify according to the circumstances, products of both old and new Who cultures.

Series 11-13 is usually deemed bad. Series 11-13 has not been that bad for me, from a critical POV. But it isn’t definitely at par with a lot of other seasons. Jodie’s tenure as the Doctor had more modern problems for the modern world- discrimination and bias, utter desperation, social statures and stigma, institutional influences and agendas. It wasn’t bad overall. Not all Doctor stories can be about mad people in a blue box fighting the unknown.

So all in all jury isn’t out on what to think of it as a whole.

 

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

@ichabod A very belated but well deserved wishes on passing your 82nd. May the god above bless you with more and better years to come…

We all miss 12th. However, you forgot the best stuff about him: attack brows! 😉

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

@dentarthurdent Our generation was different. We started everything from the newer versions, and then moved back. Ultraman and Goji series, Doctor Who, Lost in Space, Star Trek, Star Wars trilogies. Even something simpler like the Seinfeld series!

But with Doctor Who, it never felt out of touch to see the classics later. It just got more interesting.

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

A bit out of topic from what everyone is discussing, but does anybody know where to mail DW fan letters or fanart to?

dwm@panini.co.uk – The official Doctor Who Magazine letters page is not working. My simple artworks are getting blocked, along with the whole mail.

Any help would be appreciated.

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

@jimthefish

I have heard about that novelization. Turns out they ALL get out of the Tardis in that one. You are right; that is going to make things even more wibbly-wobbly!

Kudos on the choice of your username though…..

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

So I have had lingering doubts about The Day of the Doctor for a very long time.

How come the Doctor never remembers trying to save Gallifrey, if all his previous versions were there together? It was always theorized and kind of surmised that maybe the Tardises did the calculations and the all the saving; and all incarnations of the Doctor were very poor drivers to even notice. But that theory seems kind of lazy. And to be honest 7th was actually a good driver of the capsule.
Another surmised and kind-of-universally accepted notion is that when multiple incarnations of the same person come together, only the latest version remembers the deeds. All the previous incarnations loose their memory due to them being out of sync with their own timelines. But that should not hold true because none of the other Doctors left the protective fields of their Tardises (only War and 10th). So was it really lazy writing and fanfare? OR is it something else?

The episode is from the perspective of 11th. But when 12th enters, should it not be metaphysically impossible for him to remember anything!? They did not interact, but they still are the same person, in the same temporal plain of existence. So that should make 12th the oldest among all the Doctors, right?

Also-

This one doubt is kind of extreme and rubbishly thought of and crudely framed. But I think it’s still better than Rory being a Master because of a wibbly-wobbly migraine and Simm-like haircut!
If the 10th had only the intention to cozy up to the queen for exposing her as the Zygon that he thought she was, and if he forgets marrying her due to the timeline being out of sync, then how does he remember all the flirting and everything that followed (in The End of Time Part 1 he jokingly reveals to the Ood that Queen Elizabeth cannot have the nickname the Virgin Queen anymore). Did he not wait to find out if she was a Zygon before all the snogging!?
Plus why does 11 not feel weird when seeing the portrait of his earlier incarnation with Queen Bess in what looks like ceremonial wedding gown? This episode is from the perspective of his timeline. Up until that moment, 10th should have forgotten everything except pursuing the possible Queen-Zygon and 11 hasn’t yet lived through The Day of the Doctor episode yet, in and as his own timeline. 10th shouldn’t even remember if the Zygon case was resolved. So who exactly remembers how much!?

Is there a prose or novelization where 10s story and why he pursued the Zygon is told?

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

@dentarthurdent

You are gonna love the Capaldi era even more in the years to come. I have watched it so many times. Not spoiling anything, since it has been out for so many years, but you are going to love him in the last few episodes. With his long coat and big hair. A perfect combo between 3, 4 and 1 IMO.

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

Talking about my favorite Doctor, the 12th, there is something I want to put out there into the world. Just a random thought.

I feel that most of the Whovian fandom I see online, while discussing the Doctor and his name take it for granted that 11 had the only chance to tell River his name in The Wedding of River Song.  12th spent decades with her, so logically he would have the best chance and setting to tell her his name. Also there was a really good theory I once read that the name of the Doctor is more than just a name. In rare instances, it is like a security protocol or passwords. Like the Greater Intelligence wanted his name to open his tomb at Trenzalore. So maybe, just maybe…, his name can do that again, ELSEWHERE. After a Time Lord of Gallifrey dies, his or her mind, all they have seen, all there memories gets uploaded to The Matrix, without the physical incarnations. Maybe there can be corners of the Matrix accessible only by the real name of a Time Lord, once they have died. So if they have a name and they somehow are within the Matrix, then maybe they can open it up and change events in real time. For someone like the Doctor, who has saved numerous lives in so many universes and defeated so many enemies along the way, somehow undoing all that in real-time can be catastrophic. Maybe that is why the name is such a big secret. The theory is really good and someday might even hold true; if not in the televised stories then maybe in an alternate universe Big Finish production or Comic arc. The only drawback I find is that this would be highly unlikely, because other species that have attacked and probed the Doctor’s life over the years would have taken drastic measures to find out his name. Instead of a faction of a security church ordering the species of Silents to ensure that the Doctor never gets to speak his name and that “Silence should fall”, there would be more intrusive steps by Organic-Daleks, Augmented humanoids and species with Hiding mechanisms and psychic abilities like post-hypnotic suggestibility like the Angels and Silents to plant someone in the Doctor’s life and gain his trust, or maybe to spring a trap worthy of the Doctor with a savior-complex, where the name could be psychically extracted. My perfect headcanons is that the Wedding that River Song had was a short version, within a version of a kind of Time War (more like war for Time). So maybe the 12th and River renewed their vows/ had a child together, the Gallifreyan version of which has stipulations or naming ceremonies where the groom/father must speak out his name. Alternatively, outside the scope of our knowledge, the 12th Doctor and River might have started something together, maybe a collection or end-time protocol or security convention and safe haven where they can reach each other, which required their original versions of the names as a passcode. Stretching on the previous point, my personal opinion is that while River fell in love with the 11th, the 12th Doctor was the one who fell in love with River Song, all over again. Not that 11 did not love her, but he had greater struggles – end of universe, loss of friends, nearing the bottom of his regenerative cycle, dealing with mysteries like the Impossible Girl, knowing that he is nearing the end of his time with River. But 12 had only one concern – is he a good man? An idea that was resonated throughout his entire tenure and all seasons as the Doctor, even at the last moments where he instructs out his next version to be good, never cruel or cowardly and hold the true essence of being the “Doctor”. Even his theme in the official release was “A Good Man (Twelve’s Theme)”. Maybe for him, a part of being good was directed at River as well. Maybe I am opinionated because of the little but amazing chemistry Alex Kingston and Peter Capaldi had in The Husbands of River Song, but I strongly stand by the notion. They had very little scenes together in the history oh Who, compared to the whole, but that one scene with 12 saying “Hello sweetie” to River is enough to make a grown man melt down!

However, this is purely my speculation.

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

Hello, David.B here. Just dropped in today and warmed up a spot on the sofa. This seems like a topic as good as any to start. For years the 4th Doctor Tom Baker, and the 10th have been my go-to Doctors from new and Classic series. Not that they still aren’t. I have a place reserved for them in a small pocket dimension, in my heart. Archived.

But right now, I would consider Peter Capaldi as my new, and probably all time favorite Doctor. He is the perfect amalgamation of everybody I know. It also helps that I have been his fans from years. He is basically the 3rd Doctor, acting and behaving like the 4th Doctor, with the goals of the 1st Doctor (Sir Hartnell version), and the temperamental behaviorism and fashion of the 9th Doctor. He has great acting skills and micro-expressions. His monologues make you ‘Listen’. His limited number of interaction with River Song is a pure goldmine. Instead of just being the Doctor, his tenure was marked by trying to be a “Good man”. Even his theme in the official release is aptly named so (‘A Good Man’, Twelve’s Theme). Plus who else can rock the look of playing a guitar, on a tank, in medieval times, with sunglasses on!?

 

[David the “erratic” Whovian @replies]

Hi! Just Popping in to say hello. New member here. David.B from Montreal. Hotelier; Junior Service Associate and Food Management Associate at Co-working Space. A hardcore sci-fi enthusiast, tattoo and mini-comic strip artist. I also try making fan-fiction of Doctor Who, based on Prose and Audio sources. A major fan of Whoniverse since 2008. Then went back to binge the Classics and New Who together a few time more. Like so many of my generation, I have been smitten by New Who fever, forever, until I got to reconnect back to the classic series as well. For most fandoms, we, the newer generation have seen episodes further down the line, first, then gone back. Happens for any kind of series and fandom (Sentai, Ultra and Goji series, fandoms like Star Trek and Star Wars). But Doctor Who was one of those rare fandoms, that pulls you in, like a magnet, wherever you start. Some might say it’s “wibbly-wobbly“. I like to think that the DW Universe (Whoniverse) is just such a wonder, which attracts you and mesmerizes your senses wherever you choose to start. Or ‘whenever’. Personally, I like Doctor Who best because everything ties in so well together, both classic and new versions. They are part of the same ongoing legacy, of sorts. And anything, even the most random of thoughts is mainstream and canonical. Nobody refutes you by mentioning some other source of information. That is the thought that crosses my mind the most, as I take my place in this ‘sofa’; how big and astonishingly ever-increasing the Whoniverse is…..and how utterly I am going to enjoy whatever comes next.

[Author]

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