The Faces of the Doctor (2)
30 December 2018 at 11:19 #66972Craig @craigEmperor
Continuing on from the previous “The Faces of the Doctor” thread, this is a place to discuss the Doctor, the many actors who have played him and the production team behind them. Who was your Doctor? Which are the interpretations you like, and are there ones you don’t? How has the show we love changed over the years?
Remember – anyone can have an opinion, but the value to others is a justified opinion.
You can find the previous thread here:30 December 2018 at 12:44 #66975Anonymous @
…the many actors who have played him…
or her. Fixed that for you. 😀30 December 2018 at 13:18 #66976Craig @craigEmperor
Cheers @kevinwho. That’s what happens when you copy and paste from the previous thread and don’t read it properly! 🙂31 December 2018 at 02:12 #66978
I didn’t have a preference until Peter Capaldi became The Doctor, I was fond of all three (you missed out Christopher Eccleston. *grins*)
What surprises me, is why Chibnall didn’t really push the boat out and choose a black actress to play the Doctor? The General (Ken Bones) regenerated into a black women, so why not the Doctor?
Thandie Newton of Line of Duty, would have been good, she is a really good actress. Instead he stayed with a blonde white actress?
Perhaps it occurred to him, he asked and got knocked back, but I’d be very surprised.
However, that’s my opinion.
Happy New Year to you.
Missy31 December 2018 at 19:12 #66991Anonymous @
(This entry is the result of a PM, and being urged to share these thoughts for everyone.)
My sweetie’s opinion of this last season wasn’t positive. She only liked the finale, and remained lukewarm about that. She’s skipping the New Year’s special to watch something she wants to see more.
I know why. She wants a Doctor who’s a cross between Sherlock Holmes and Mr. Spock. Someone who isn’t afraid to show their intellect, with a larger-than-life personality who can command the room when necessary.
Thirteen (Whittaker) isn’t like that and isn’t meant to be. But it means this season has left my sweetie behind.
And, to be honest, I think my sweetie has a point. I can understand why this Doctor doesn’t make bombastic speeches. But, you know, I’ve seen where a number of fans have said that they love the Doctor’s weapons being words. True that. But this Doctor doesn’t seem to get listened to.
Go see the scene in The Witchfinders where she makes the impassioned speech to King James, and not only is he not convinced, his response shuts her up.
Winning the repartee battles isn’t actually my point, though. It’s that the writers could arm her better for them.
See, after watching eight days of AG Who on BBC America, lots of dialog sticks in my head. By series:
- 1. “Stupid ape!” “Everybody lives!”
2. “It’s a fightin’ hand!” “Six words. Six.” “Lonely angel.” “You can spend the rest of your life with me, but I can’t spend mine with you.”
3. “Don’t blink. Don’t even blink. Blink and you’re dead.”
4. “Hello, Dad.” “Hey! Who turned out the lights?” “Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved.”
5. “Life is a pile of good things and a pile of bad things. And something added to the pile of bad things doesn’t take away from the good things.” “I. Am. Talking!”
6. “Shut up, Hitler!” “I always took you where you needed to go.” “You shout at them because they’re happy, and you know they’re going to be sad. And it breaks your heart.” “You saved me a place?” – “We always do.”
7. “Eggs… Eggs… Eggs…term…in…ate.” “We don’t walk away.”
8. “Fear is a superpower.” “And did you think that would make any difference to the way I feel about you?” “A hug is just a way to hide your face.” “Am I a good man? I’m an idiot!”
9. “No one else will ever feel this pain!” “When you come into this world, something else comes with you.” “I’m not scared of hell, it’s just heaven for bad people.” “Don’t you trust me?” – “Not when you’re shouting.”
10. “Everything looks evil from the other end of the cutlery. Or did you think your bacon sandwich loves you back?” “Just be kind.”
Honestly, other than nonsense about rebellious sheep and salad-throwing taunts, I can’t remember any dialog from Series 11. None of it seems memorable. The relentless focus on the ordinary seems to have included ordinary dialog.
I don’t mean to be unfair. I think Graham said some memorable things. And there were facts I don’t need about acetylene gas. The Doctor probably said some good lines too, but maybe didn’t stop long enough for me to remember any. And her speech at the end of The Battle of Random Namings was pretty good, but it was about exploration, and there wasn’t much of that in Series 11, a lot more about being unable to prevent evil.
Still, there’s no reason this should detract from your enjoyment of the show or series. You’re not me.
Me, I have a huge problem with it. During my working career, I had bosses both good and bad. Series 11 too often was just like time with a bad boss, knowing what needed to be done, making an impassioned speech and being shut up in response.
So Series 11 for me has been too much like bad days at work, but without the paycheck. Or benefits. A life insurance plan, I insist on that.
Maybe the New Year holds something better. Maybe something special, something good and memorable in our lives. I hope so, for every one of us.1 January 2019 at 14:20 #67007Anonymous @
I want to do one more post on Series 11 before we head into the special, and it’s about one element that I know has given reviewers trouble, and that I find interesting: names.
The episode titles have been a bit hit or miss, I think, given how many reputable reviewers I’ve seen who have to struggle to remember Ranskoor av Kolos, or consistently misspell Tsuranga. If reviewers can’t remember, that suggests to me that something could have been better. A Good Man Goes to War avoided that problem, as did Sontaran Stratagem. So maybe Ranskoor av Kolos should have been left out of the title? Name the hospital ship after something most English-speakers associate with medicine? I don’t know.
My criticism here isn’t entirely negative, though. Just because some episodes had titles that gave trouble doesn’t mean they all did. The Woman Who Fell to Earth is excellent in just about every way, including the reference to the androgynous David Bowie suggesting that Thirteen wouldn’t be “girly.”
And Kerblam! sure turned out to be what was going on in that episode. My season favorite, It Takes You Away, was both evocatively and accurately titled, too.
Some of the names within episodes left me scratching my head a little. Is there an Uxbridge or Uxton or the like in the UK that will make British viewers think of something massively powerful but a bit misguided, like the Ux? I don’t know.
Let me see if I can show you what I mean, about a few names that weren’t bad or anything, just didn’t seem to fit the creature the way some comparable critters in AG Who have:
- Mr. Sweet
And anyone else think Crass-co would have been a great name for not-Trump?
Well, that’s it for that topic for me, and maybe Series 11 too. It’s certainly been interesting, and anything that gives me something to write about is welcome. Not, as you all know, that it takes much…3 January 2019 at 00:47 #67039coach.t @coach-t
I am new here, first post, so please don’t fault me if I post in the wrong thread. I have watched this show since the late 70s and have been a fan since then. I often watch TV and sometimes picture in my mind who the next Doctor could be and who I would love to see star in that role. Hugh Laurie, also known as Dr. House. There could be so many innuendos from his previous show, not to mention, I do think he is a wonderful actor.3 January 2019 at 16:54 #67049Anonymous @
@coach-t – I’d say this is the right thread! Sorry no one’s commented, but it’s not because you’re doing anything wrong, it just hasn’t caught anyone’s interest. (I don’t watch much TV, and can’t comment on Hugh Laurie.) Stick around though, please!3 January 2019 at 18:21 #6705710th Doctor Fan @ddoherty95
@coach-t I’ve never heard of him. Jodie should be returning in early 2020 for another season and then there are rumours that she and Chris Chinnibal May leave after that, so Hugo May have a chance!8 May 2019 at 06:51 #67651gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar
Hi everyone. It’s been awhile since I’ve wrote anything on the forum. Wish I’ve been more active here over the past few months. Haven’t even said much about our new Doctor. Hope it’s still relevant to analyze her character. It’s that something really struck me about this Doctor and I haven’t seen anyone else mention it online. This Doctor is so different from her past incarnations and I have a theory why and of course I want to hear everyone’s thoughts on this.
Here it is, in the last season The 12th Doctor didn’t want to continue doing what he does. There had been too much emotional weight put on his shoulders and he didn’t want to gather anymore. So when he regenerated, instead of a new body and mindset to hold the same feelings he gathered through hundreds of years, all that pain could now be placed in the back of her mind. The Doctor took on the mindset of her younger self, someone child like, who haven’t gone through the stress that comes with everything she does. That’s why I think she is like no other Doctor, because she took on a mind set of The Doctor we haven’t seen before, one that haven’t even left Gallifrey yet and was more young and hopeful than ever before. That’s why she seems a little disconnected from her past selfs. It’s also why I think she is a little more forgetful or doesn’t strategize her actions. Why would she, she doesn’t have the mind set of a solider. She’s thinking like her younger self, someone who didn’t have this thinking process as part of her lifestyle. That’s why she might forget details when solving a mystery like in “Kerblam!” or ignore common sense like when she held her sonic screwdriver too close to the Pting (hope I’m spelling that right). Now, the only reason she isn’t completely like her younger self and remains as the protecter of the universe is because she is still living by the rules she has created for herself. Those rules she has gathered and shaped through her years of being in the positions she’s in keep her as The Doctor. Now, there is a bit of evidence to support my theory. From the 12th Doctor’s final words to make sure his new incarnation remembers the codes he lives by. To this Doctor talking about her childhood, including childhood stories and days at the orphanage. Even the idea of her calling this new Team Tardis her “family” might support this theory. Jodie’s Doctor is very child like, from the positive attitude about things most people wouldn’t think about (apple bobbing for example) to the way she dresses. I know her child like behaviour isn’t a new observation but I’ve just haven’t heard anyone put it in the context I am. I also want to point out that I’m not saying that she has forgotten or doesn’t think about her past experiences, she just has a more active positive personality now, from a simpler time that can now help her heal.
Well that’s it. I’ve had this idea for a long time and just haven’t said anything. Again, wish I’ve said it sooner. Hope everyone at least found it fascinating even if you don’t agree. Let me know what you think. It’s nice to talk to everyone again.8 May 2019 at 08:23 #6765210th Doctor Fan @ddoherty95
Following on from GamerGirlAvatar I thought I’d give my opinion on the new series.
For me there is one crucial thing missing. Continuity. Each episode was so alone and isolated, there was no continental storyline. I am aware why Chris Chinnibal did it but I feel that it really lacks without it. Don’t get me wrong the new series is excellent, the FX are brilliant and I can’t wait for 2020, however I do miss the continuity.15 June 2019 at 18:29 #67743doctor-levina @doctor-levina
At the moment, I am in the middle of the 5th season so I can’t really join the whole female doctor talk. However, my opinion about the different doctors went through a funny transformation.
When I started watching, I was kind of sceptical about the whole series, because the only series I watched before that dealt somehow with extra-terrestrial beings etc was x files. I liked x files but never got into it as much as I did with game of thrones for example. So I started with the 9<sup>th</sup> doctor, first season of the reboot, ready to be disappointed, but – I loved it! I loved his wit especially, how he was always making jokes in dangerous situations, reminded me of a very close friend of mine.
Needless to say, when he regenerated I was soo angry. I thought it would never be the same, I didn’t like the looks of Tennant etc. 3 episodes later and I’m all in again, loving his acting, in my opinion he was still witty and childish enough for me to sustain the feeling it was the same doctor in a different shell and oh was I a mess when the Tennant era ended. Happy end for the companions and a lone doctor, back at it again.
Matt Smith was not such an easy transition. Besides the different looks, I think it was also the writing, because there was less old school wit in the situations, more stuff you know from modern Hollywood comedies, but by episode 5 I was back in the old mode, eating up the episodes. What helps is that I really like the whole concept of Amy Pond, with Donna she is among the more relatable companions to me, I love Rose, because she’s… well Rose and I love Martha Jones, because she had legit skill and was such a cool, strong character.
I am a little nervous about the next doctor. Also River Song annoys me a lot at this point in time. I am eager to see how I will feel about them down the road and pretty impatient for the moment I will be able to take part in the whole conversation.16 June 2019 at 03:46 #67745
@doctor-levina I envy you meeting all of the Doctors for the first time.I remember my journey through Who and it was much the same as yours. The 9th Doctor was my first and I was so sad when he regenerated but then the 10th came along and he was so good then the 11th and so on.Each time I am sure I won’t like the new Doctor and each time I am wrong.What a great show!
Matt Smith as the 11th Doctor is an old soul ,sweet and silly with a core of steel. When he gets angry it gives me chills. Have fun watching it all and believe me you are going to love the 12th Doctor too.19 November 2019 at 05:51 #68391blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave
I just spent part of my sadly reduced income to buy a copy (just released) of a new BBC animated reconstruction of a lost Patrick Troughton story “The Macra Terror” from 1967. Although I was watching back then, I have no memory of the story (but that could be said of so much more). But after a bit of research, I realized that the story (about the Doctor and his companions trapped in a society that, while seemingly idyllic, demanded absolute obedience) would have been made about the same time as “The Prisoner” with Patrick McGoohan (one of the most influential TV experiences of my jaded youth). I knew I had to purchase it.
Here is an interesting comparison of the original (what remains of it) and the animated reconstruction.
Since the faces of the Doctor (real and animated) are different, I decided to post here. I await the arrival of the DVD in the mail, and will report back after a viewing.22 February 2020 at 15:11 #69780BeeMartha @beemartha
Hi everyone xx
on the topic of who your favourite doctor is i want a ask everyone if you could be any doctor which doctor would you be and why ???
I can’t make my mind up between David Tennant and Jodie Whittaker they are both a lil bit of me if I must say24 February 2020 at 03:55 #69806
@beemartha Hi and welcome to the site! I have never thought about being the Doctor , more about what Doctor I would like to travel with. I think being the Doctor would be exciting and fun and maybe even fulfilling being able to save planets and people but I also think it would be very sad. The Doctor doesn’t and can’t save everyone including companions and other people he loves and that must be terrible. The Doctor lives far longer than most people he meets and he will outlive them and that is so sad and lonely. He\She is always faced with an emotional dilemma, be alone in the Tardis or bring along a companion that you know you will lose some day. So I think it would be easier to be a companion of the Doctor and travel in the Tardis while you can than to be the lonely Doctor.
Mind you I am a prickly sort of person , crusty outside but soft inside so I think I am more like the 12th Doctor but I wouldn’t want to be him.27 February 2020 at 00:44 #69871
I agree with you. I wouldn’t want to be the Doctor either.
Then again being a companion isn’t good, the loss of him would be heartbreaking.
Like you, The 12th is more my style. *grins*
Missy18 May 2020 at 16:00 #70689The Idiot From Gallifrey Base @dalekbuster523
So many faces of the Doctor now after the Timeless Child it’s hard to count!26 September 2020 at 23:32 #71002HHSpeedy @hhspeedy
I am a long-time fan of Doctor Who, watching classic Who from my youth. I have seen almost every episode still in existence and love the Doctor’s story. Well mostly…
I think it’s time for a mulligan. The video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXe82G8A_B4 does an excellent job of explaining why Timeless Child ruins Doctor Who. In a nutshell, the Doctor used to be special because of what he did, but now she is special because of who she is. Now the Doctor would seem selfish if she didn’t lay down her life to save anyone.
Not to mention the inconsistencies. Matt Smith’s Doctor was dying of old age in the town of Christmas and lacked the regenerative energy for a new incarnation, until the Time Lords on Gallifrey sent him a new set of regenerations (presumably 12 additional regenerations).
Matt Smith’s Doctor was dying by poison in Berlin and lacked the regenerative energy to save himself, but River Song used her remaining regenerations to save the Doctor.
River Song (Melody Pond) was conceived in the time vortex and therefore gained regenerative abilities.
William Hartnell’s Doctor enters a plain Type 40 Time Capsule when he and Susan leave Gallifrey. The time capsule disguises itself as a police box upon landing in 1963 London and the chameleon circuit gets stuck. There is no reason for any earlier version of the Doctor to have a Police Box.
It’s as though the show has been handed off to people who don’t know anything about it. Speaking of which, the sex change…really? Spontaneous sex changes only occur in lesser life forms. I understand the drive to bring a strong female character to Doctor Who, but Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor isn’t that anyway. Romana, on the other hand, was one of the best characters ever on Doctor Who. With Gallifrey safe again, there was opportunity to have another Time Lady companion. (Not sure why the reboot writers hate Gallifrey)
In my opinion, the best shot of saving Doctor Who is to bring Peter Capaldi back to make the whole Jodie Whittaker Doctor a dream sequence before he regenerates into a different Doctor. And this time, cast a better Doctor, don’t change his sex, and hire better producer/writers. If you want a strong female character, bring one on as a companion. The point of Doctor Who is that it doesn’t matter who you are, but what you do.9 November 2020 at 08:03 #71108
In my opinion, the best shot of saving Doctor Who is to bring Peter Capaldi back to make the whole Jodie Whittaker Doctor a dream sequence before he regenerates into a different Doctor. And this time, cast a better Doctor, don’t change his sex, and hire better producer/writers. If you want a strong female character, bring one on as a companion. The point of Doctor Who is that it doesn’t matter who you are, but what you do.
I couldn’t said this better myself. *grins*
Missy7 April 2021 at 11:29 #71541Jenniferkayle @jenniferkayle
Peter Davison played the fifth Doctor from 1981-1984. Davison made his first appearance in the season 18 finale,”Logopolis:Part Four,” released March 21, 1981. Ihomedental Davison played The Doctor for all 26 episodes from season 19 (1982), all 23 episodes from season 20 (1983), & all 20 episodes from season 21 (1984).
Tip #2: Speak up if you have any questions or concerns.
You have a right to question anyone who is involved with your care. To be sure you have all the information you need, it can help to write down questions to ask for the next time you visit the doctor.
Tip #3: Identify yourself.
Be sure the healthcare professional asks your name and birthdate. Also, don’t hesitate to inform the healthcare professional if you think he or she has confused you with another person.
Tip #4: Ask healthcare workers tell you what they plan to do before you consent to any procedure.
Healthcare workers should tell you what they plan to do before any procedure. Also, you can remind healthcare workers who have direct contact to wash their hands. Handwashing is an important way to prevent the spread of infection.
Tip #5: Bring your doctor a list of your medications and mention any allergies you have.
This list should include all over-the-counter medications, home remedies, and herbal medications including tea, vitamins and weight gain or loss products such as shakes, pills or bars. Sometimes they can be dangerous when you take them with other medications.11 April 2021 at 14:18 #71560Pez @pezwf
Am I alone in wondering why the next doctor needs to be either black, or a woman or both?
I have watched Doctor Who since the Jon Pertwee years in ther 1970s, and I will be the the first to admit that some doctors (and companions) seem to ‘fit’ better than others – while they each have their own ‘style’, they have not always been the figure that the audiences can get behind and root for.
Now I don’t honestly care what age, ethnic origin, gender, or even sexual orientation the next doctor is, as long as they have well written stories, and can make the role their own – I just don’t understand why white males seem to be being omitted from the candidate list.
Now I’m sure that some of you will dismiss me as being racist or sexist and that is your choice – everybody is entitled to their own opinions as long as they don’t harm anybody else.
All I’m really trying to find out is whether the BBC is deliberately aiming to get minorities interested in the series or if they just feel that the series needs changing around. Again.13 April 2021 at 15:06 #71562
Happy Birthday to Peter Davison who turns 70 today. I still think of him as young Tristan. He always impressed me more in that role than he did as the Doctor but I admire his dedication to the role over the years and just love the Five-ish Doctors. I hope he is able to celebrate with family, the Doctor’s daughter, Doctor 10 and the rest. Now that will be a very doctory birthday party.
Janette13 April 2021 at 18:14 #71563Oochillyo @oochillyo
@janetteb wow it feels like a big shock to hear Peter Davison is 70 today I was surprised to hear recently he was in his 60’s so he must have been in his late 60’s when I heard this.
I always think of him being in his early 20’s or late teens in Doctor Who since he looks soo young and till Matt Smith he was the youngest actor to play the Doctor but he was closer to his 30’s at the time and I thought Matt Smith was in his very early 20’s too when he started the role but he is nearly 40 now like how I at-least thought he would be in his 30’s now wow.
Anyway I am likely to continue thinking of Peter Davison as a very young Doctor Who who has aged gracefully, one of my Favorite Doctors a wonderful, funny and caring Individual and a superber Actor I hope he has a wonderful Birthday full of love, joy and laughter with his family and friends and no Doctor Who Villains hehe 🙂
Regards – Declan Sargent14 April 2021 at 03:44 #71564
On the subject of birthdays Today is Peter Capaldi’s birthday and of course next Sunday is David Tennant’s. A lot of Doctor’s born in April it seems.
Janette14 April 2021 at 11:45 #71565
Okay, I’ll pick that one up, cautiously.
First, I like every Doctor from McCoy through to Capaldi. (I thought McCoy looked silly in still photos, but after seeing him in The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot I watched his last three stories and I thought he was good. Great chemistry with Sophie Aldred. And I thought Matt Smith looked too foolish initially, but he rapidly grew on me).
I don’t think the Doctor “needs” to be female, or black, or white male for that matter. In fact I distrust people who say someone else “needs” to do something, I think they’re just projecting their feelz as an imperative onto everybody else.
Roles like, say, the next James Bond should – I think – continue to be white and male for simple continuity reasons. (For strict continuity he should still be played by Sean Connery, of course). Changing his colour/gender is just too much of a jump. Invent a new spy if that’s required. Halle Berry or Michelle Yeoh could play them.
But the Doctor and his regenerations is, almost uniquely, the one case where the ‘continuity’ consideration does not apply. So a black/female Doctor can fit perfectly well in my opinion. I do think there’s a certain amount of ‘wokeness’ (ugh) operating, in that the Doctor’s been white male for so long, there’s a feeling it’s about time blacks/females got their turn, which is fair enough. I’d be annoyed if there was one obviously best choice who happened to be a white male and who was bypassed for an inferior choice just for that reason, but I can’t suggest anyone who ‘owns’ the role so I can’t cavil.
That said, I just do not like Chibnall’s writing or Whittaker’s interpretation of the Doctor. It seems to be the case that Chibnall wanted to do everything differently and Whittaker never watched any previous Doctor Who, and it shows. No presence, no underlying depth of character, no menace. (Disclaimer: That’s based on Season 11, haven’t watched 12 yet).
If I had to suggest an actor off the top of my head, I’d say how about Sophie Okonedo (Liz 10 from The Beast Below). She looks like she absolutely could kick ass. But I’m sure there are dozens of actors of any colour/gender who could do a perfectly good job given decent writing and direction.14 April 2021 at 12:29 #71566
@dentarthurdent that is well said and I would pretty much agree though I would not have a problem with James Bond being less white as he has changed face so many times anyway but as for a female Bond, well I would rather see a new story featuring a woman. But I am not a James Bond fan and have never watched a single movie and don’t intend to do so ever, so perhaps I am not the best person to be commenting. Now if there had been a series of films featuring Emma Peel (The Avengers) that would be very different.
The Doctor as you say, regenerates, new DNA, new rules. As the character has been played by white males for so long I think a change is well and truly overdue but the choice should still be the best actor and it takes a very special kind of actor to “be” the Doctor. I think Sophie Okonedo has the quality that the role needs, she does funny and serious and has the twinkle in the eye. Sacha Dhawan has that same quality and he topped my wish list for next Doctor but given his current casting in the series I’m guessing that is now impossible. There are heaps of great actors who lack that necessary quality, and some less great actors that have it in spades. Jodie Whittaker tries but it can’t be acted. I felt that same way about Peter Davison. They are both likeable as the Doctor but neither lifts it off the page and it is not due to lack of acting ability in either case. Tom Baker was not a great actor but he just was the Doctor.
There have been some good episodes in series 11 and 12 but overall I don’t like the story arc. IT seems as though Chibnell is very determinedly ripping up everything Moffat did and closing a lot of narrative door for future writers in doing so. While there were episodes I enjoyed in series 12 I have not re-watched because of that. It also annoyed me that they cast my next Doctor in the wrong role…
Janette14 April 2021 at 14:55 #71567
@janetteb Well, as to James Bond, I guess you’re right and continuity of the main character is a lost cause (though Mrs D still refers to Sean Connery as ‘James Bond’). Talking of actors who didn’t ‘fit’, (I know you were talking about the Doctor but I’m applying it here), Sean Connery fitted perfectly, George Lazenby (who only did one) for some reason didn’t fit very well, and Roger Moore didn’t fit at all, he was far too debonair and lightweight and the series degenerated from a slick spy thriller into a camp comedy caper. Later on, when Moore got a bit older and acquired a few lines on his face, he improved markedly, just before he was replaced.
Though of course The Avengers did replace their female lead with Emma Peel (Diana Rigg). (Oh, I just did a quick Google and had to revise that! John Steed’s first notable partner was Cathy Gale (Honor Blackman) who started the whole leather-clad action thing. Then, well into the run, she was replaced by Emma Peel, who continued in the same style. And later on, Emma Peel was replaced by Tara King (Linda Thorson). Though I think, for most people, Emma Peel will always be the classic Avengers girl.
But anyway, Avengers did explain those changes in the plot, so continuity was preserved.
Back to the Doctor – I’ve never seen Sacha Dhawan so can’t comment, I’m sure you’re right 🙂 Of course they managed to work around Peter Capaldi’s previous appearance, but that was quite a long time gap (6 years, or 2000, according to how you count it) and they did put in a little reference to explain it, not that it mattered much. Didn’t it also happen to Martha Jones (Freema Agyeman)? But transmuting from The Master might be a bit too hard to explain. For the exact same reason Michelle Gomez could not have become the Doctor. (And of course Sophie Okonedo would have needed some explaining too, but probably manageable).
It’s just occurred to me (though it must have become painfully obvious to casting directors) that a long-running TV series like Dr Who has such a vast appetite for ‘secondary’ characters that the pool of ‘unused’ actors becomes seriously depleted. It certainly happened here in NZ where I guess the number of actors is much less, over the course of a series like Hercules/Xena some extras racked up half-a-dozen different roles (I think the record was ten). That’s speaking parts, crowd scenes didn’t count.15 April 2021 at 03:00 #71568
@janetteb and @dentarthurdent I get how people are protective of their favourite characters, I feel that way about Sherlock Holmes who I think should be a British man as should Watson. James Bond can be a man just let the women in the films be kick ass instead of eye candy. But the Doctor is different, he\she regenerates into totally new people. This started to keep the show going but turned into the most important thing about the Doctor. I accept all the Doctors even if I don’t like them all the same. The 13th Doctor may not be my favourite now but in the future she might be because like the Doctor I am always changing. She will always be the Doctor who made her own screwdriver and wore braces and had a Tardis like a crystal cave. The more I watch her the more I like her.
I just want more Doctor Who!15 April 2021 at 11:41 #71570
@winston I agree about Holmes and Watson should be British males. But I’m not ‘protective’ of the Doctor in that sense that I require him(/her) to be a certain character. Since the Doctor regenerates into a whole new person there’s nothing to protect. What I do want is that the new Doctor be an interesting strong character (and, I guess, not break continuity with any previous incarnation, which should be fairly easy to not do, but I think Chibnall failed to not do it). But I’m afraid Jodie Whittaker just doesn’t ‘work’ for me.
Incidentally, I tend to like Bond movies better when they’ve got a strong female lead to match Bond – such as Die Another Day (Halle Berry) and Tomorrow Never Dies (Michelle Yeoh) – both kick-ass (as well as eye candy). Having a strong female co-lead actually adds a lot of interest to the story, for me.15 April 2021 at 14:56 #71574
@winston I did think Jodie Whittaker was growing into the role in season 12 and from memory there were some good episodes but the overall arc put me off a bit and I think that is why I have not done a re watch yet. It is on my “watch” list for this year.
I am looking forward to the next series and hoping that Chibnell will not tear up too much more of the “canon” that Moffat established because I will always get a little thrill when I hear the whirr of the Tardis and that wonderful throbbing music. Dr Who warms the heart and teases the brain just a little.
Janette18 April 2021 at 01:32 #71594Oochillyo @oochillyo
hey everyone 🙂
Question – Who do you have in mind if you could cast the next Doctor ?
For me I would pick Hugh Jackman 🙂 he is such a kind and humble man for instance he was being interviewed by the press and immediately noticed his former student (he used to be a P.E. Teacher) asked how he was and made him laugh ect 🙂 , he is always happy, keeping healthy, never pompous or rude cause of being rich and or famous he is always kind to everyone and helps lots of people a true role model 🙂
He is my favorite actor and a phenomenal actor too boot, he was incredible as Wolverine in the X Men films for around 17 years and is the main reason I got attached and fell in love with The X Men and Wolverine my fav character 🙂
I could see him being a very kind Doctor to his companies and aliens that need help but very intimidating and emotional almost ruthless (like Wolverine) when there are bad aliens or bad things happen plus he is 6ft 3 so can be very scary if you cross him or a big friendly giant if he loves you 🙂
Off topic a little I really like Sacha Dhawan’s Master 🙂 he is funny, kinda crazy, lots of energy, ruthless, smart and very menacing when you make him angry.
He is like a spoiled kid who just wants to win in style his way (example being the catchphrases) and its funny when he messes them up cause he is too focused on killing someone, keeping his plan on track or battling the Doctor which make him very unique and entertaining to watch so much so I want him to win sometimes and I hope he doesn’t regenerate anytime soon 🙂
I am sorry to 13th Doctor and Jodie Whittaker fans but for me Sacha Dhawan’s Master out classes or out shines Jodie’s Doctor.
I am not sure if Sacha Dhawan has any other acting roles to note but in Doctor Who at least he seems like a really good actor and is my fav portrayal of The Master so far with Missy very close behind unless both finals change my mind.
Regards – Declan Sargent18 April 2021 at 21:05 #71596nerys @nerys
@oochillyo I am sorry to 13th Doctor and Jodie Whittaker fans but for me Sacha Dhawan’s Master out classes or out shines Jodie’s Doctor.
I am not sure if Sacha Dhawan has any other acting roles to note but in Doctor Who at least he seems like a really good actor and is my fav portrayal of The Master so far with Missy very close behind unless both finals change my mind.
Oh yes, Sacha Dhawan has an extensive filmography … including An Adventure in Space and Time, a wonderful Doctor Who film!
I have mixed feelings about his Master. I so enjoyed Missy. Michelle Gomez’s portrayal was deft, giving us a convincing mix of menace, humor and pathos that made her an effective antagonist for the Doctor. Dhawan’s Master is a throwback to John Simm’s portayal, which felt very over-the-top to me.
In my opinion, the writing of Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor does not always serve her talents well. Sometimes it feels like she’s still finding her feet in portraying the Doctor, which shouldn’t be the case this far along. Having said that, I think she’s had many shining moments, and I appreciate what she has done thus far.14 June 2021 at 18:13 #71757PengeSal @pengesal
t12 November 2021 at 22:34 #7236516 November 2021 at 01:49 #72410ichabod @ichabod
I’m having a tough time with this Flux story, I have to admit (so I’ve been quiet here about the show for a while). In fact, I couldn’t stick with Chibnul’s most recent episodes, partly because the sound balance is (at least on my TV) awful and I can hardly hear what people are saying (or shouting) over the damned loud, lurchy music. Either I’m going deaf, or I need to get a sound bar that selects for and amplifies voice over music (would make no real difference now that Murray Gold is gone and the new composer’s work is completely un-distinguished and instantly forgettable. Sorry as I am to admit it, I haven’t been able to get to the end of the last two eps — too much noise, too much jump-cutting, too many fragmented plot bits flying around unthethered to any grand design that I can make out. Maybe I’m just too old now for DW.
Anyway, from slow, flat, comic-book-depth stories of no particular impact in his starter series, Chibs has now gone kitchen-sink and seems to be throwing together whatever he can think of and having Doctor Whittaker shout paragraphs of info-dump here and there . . . it’s like a backlash against Chibs’ critics: “Oh, you thought that first series was kind of slow and simple-minded? Well, how’s this — a veritable mulligatawny I fling into your faces!
Watching now it’s exhausting. There seems to be no “there” there, or rather maybe far too much and far too chaotic to work for me, as a viewer; it just gives me a headache. Missy, Anonymous @, HHSpeedy and janetteB, I lean toward your more negative positions. In fact, I’m on the brink of giving up altogether and waiting for RTD to dispose of all this whirligig of stuff somehow (keeping any bits that can be made worthwhile by a bit of re-design) and get us back on some kind of firm (but new — I’m not talking about going backwards) ground.16 November 2021 at 03:22 #72412blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave
@ichabod It is great to see you again! Don’t give up. I totally agree with you about the sound. My initial assumption is that my hearing is declining, but then I realize it if there is a problem, it is not mine.
As for the show, I like to think of it in context. When Troughton took over from Hartnell (I am 69!) my response was “that’s not right!” but by the time it got to the departure of Troughton I thought it was all brilliant.
Yes, a lot of Chibnall has been awful, but maybe part of the appeal of the show is to take the good with the bad.
And at the end of every episode, you just don’t know what the next one will reveal.
Hang in there.16 November 2021 at 07:11 #72415
Hello, David.B here. Just dropped in today and warmed up a spot on the sofa. This seems like a topic as good as any to start. For years the 4th Doctor Tom Baker, and the 10th have been my go-to Doctors from new and Classic series. Not that they still aren’t. I have a place reserved for them in a small pocket dimension, in my heart. Archived.
But right now, I would consider Peter Capaldi as my new, and probably all time favorite Doctor. He is the perfect amalgamation of everybody I know. It also helps that I have been his fans from years. He is basically the 3rd Doctor, acting and behaving like the 4th Doctor, with the goals of the 1st Doctor (Sir Hartnell version), and the temperamental behaviorism and fashion of the 9th Doctor. He has great acting skills and micro-expressions. His monologues make you ‘Listen’. His limited number of interaction with River Song is a pure goldmine. Instead of just being the Doctor, his tenure was marked by trying to be a “Good man”. Even his theme in the official release is aptly named so (‘A Good Man’, Twelve’s Theme). Plus who else can rock the look of playing a guitar, on a tank, in medieval times, with sunglasses on!?16 November 2021 at 08:11 #72416
Talking about my favorite Doctor, the 12th, there is something I want to put out there into the world. Just a random thought.
I feel that most of the Whovian fandom I see online, while discussing the Doctor and his name take it for granted that 11 had the only chance to tell River his name in The Wedding of River Song. 12th spent decades with her, so logically he would have the best chance and setting to tell her his name. Also there was a really good theory I once read that the name of the Doctor is more than just a name. In rare instances, it is like a security protocol or passwords. Like the Greater Intelligence wanted his name to open his tomb at Trenzalore. So maybe, just maybe…, his name can do that again, ELSEWHERE. After a Time Lord of Gallifrey dies, his or her mind, all they have seen, all there memories gets uploaded to The Matrix, without the physical incarnations. Maybe there can be corners of the Matrix accessible only by the real name of a Time Lord, once they have died. So if they have a name and they somehow are within the Matrix, then maybe they can open it up and change events in real time. For someone like the Doctor, who has saved numerous lives in so many universes and defeated so many enemies along the way, somehow undoing all that in real-time can be catastrophic. Maybe that is why the name is such a big secret. The theory is really good and someday might even hold true; if not in the televised stories then maybe in an alternate universe Big Finish production or Comic arc. The only drawback I find is that this would be highly unlikely, because other species that have attacked and probed the Doctor’s life over the years would have taken drastic measures to find out his name. Instead of a faction of a security church ordering the species of Silents to ensure that the Doctor never gets to speak his name and that “Silence should fall”, there would be more intrusive steps by Organic-Daleks, Augmented humanoids and species with Hiding mechanisms and psychic abilities like post-hypnotic suggestibility like the Angels and Silents to plant someone in the Doctor’s life and gain his trust, or maybe to spring a trap worthy of the Doctor with a savior-complex, where the name could be psychically extracted. My perfect headcanons is that the Wedding that River Song had was a short version, within a version of a kind of Time War (more like war for Time). So maybe the 12th and River renewed their vows/ had a child together, the Gallifreyan version of which has stipulations or naming ceremonies where the groom/father must speak out his name. Alternatively, outside the scope of our knowledge, the 12th Doctor and River might have started something together, maybe a collection or end-time protocol or security convention and safe haven where they can reach each other, which required their original versions of the names as a passcode. Stretching on the previous point, my personal opinion is that while River fell in love with the 11th, the 12th Doctor was the one who fell in love with River Song, all over again. Not that 11 did not love her, but he had greater struggles – end of universe, loss of friends, nearing the bottom of his regenerative cycle, dealing with mysteries like the Impossible Girl, knowing that he is nearing the end of his time with River. But 12 had only one concern – is he a good man? An idea that was resonated throughout his entire tenure and all seasons as the Doctor, even at the last moments where he instructs out his next version to be good, never cruel or cowardly and hold the true essence of being the “Doctor”. Even his theme in the official release was “A Good Man (Twelve’s Theme)”. Maybe for him, a part of being good was directed at River as well. Maybe I am opinionated because of the little but amazing chemistry Alex Kingston and Peter Capaldi had in The Husbands of River Song, but I strongly stand by the notion. They had very little scenes together in the history oh Who, compared to the whole, but that one scene with 12 saying “Hello sweetie” to River is enough to make a grown man melt down!
However, this is purely my speculation.16 November 2021 at 10:24 #72417
@davidwho Well, Capaldi is my all-time favourite Doctor too. He just fits the role so well, complete with his slightly-eccentric mannerisms (mostly courtesy of Steven Moffatt). I’m currently working my way through the Capaldi era of nuWho and thoroughly enjoying it.
As to the Doctor’s full name being some sort of password or key, yes that’s quite a good theory (IMO). It would explain why the Silents were so insistent that his name should never be spoken. And there’s a long mythical and fantasy tradition that names have power, for example naming some entity could summon it into existence. So the Name of the Doctor could well have significance way beyond Trenzalore.
But I’m not an expert on Who lore, it could well be that someone with more geek cred than me will blow that out of the water.16 November 2021 at 17:53 #72419
You are gonna love the Capaldi era even more in the years to come. I have watched it so many times. Not spoiling anything, since it has been out for so many years, but you are going to love him in the last few episodes. With his long coat and big hair. A perfect combo between 3, 4 and 1 IMO.17 November 2021 at 02:30 #72431
@davidwho Don’t worry, you won’t spoil me. I watched right through to the end of Jodie W’s first season, last year. Now I’m repeating it, from Eleventh Hour onwards, currently up to Flatline.
I don’t know so much Old Who, though I did see the first episode when it first aired (I’m nearly as ancient as the Doctor, dammit). Troughton was my favourite Doc of those days, I thought he looked the part. After that, I sort of lost touch. Back then, you watched it when it was screened, or the repeat a week later, or never. And as a late teen, sci fi was just not cool anyway, we were into cars and girls and stuff.
(A decade later, I made a bad impression on the boss, sprinting out of the office at 4-30 on Thursdays. I only got dirty looks, he never actually said anything, so I couldn’t point out that I happily worked a few minutes extra on other days. And as a young engineer, there was no way I could explain that some prat had scheduled a re-run of Blakes 7 at 5-30p.m. All except the final episode, which they screened months later unannounced at 9p.m. All TV schedulers should be sent to Skaro and used by the Daleks for target practice 🙂17 November 2021 at 04:21 #72432
@dentarthurdent Our generation was different. We started everything from the newer versions, and then moved back. Ultraman and Goji series, Doctor Who, Lost in Space, Star Trek, Star Wars trilogies. Even something simpler like the Seinfeld series!
But with Doctor Who, it never felt out of touch to see the classics later. It just got more interesting.17 November 2021 at 10:55 #72434ichabod @ichabod
@blenkindsopthebrave — dear Brave Blenx, thanks for your welcome and encouragement. Just passed my 82nd birthday, so I can only hope to hang on long enough to see what Davies will do to rescue the wreckage of the show I loved (well, we all did).
@davidwho — I like your speculation re CapDoc and River. One of those examples of less is more — we got almost just enough, and it was golden: grown-ups in love and mutual respect. Grand!
Gods, I miss #12 . . . Wit; sorrow; rage; clever quips; and joy. I refuse to give up without seeing what the promised fresh start will bring, a couple of years (argh!) from now. Meanwhile, I’m off doing streaming — lotsa good stuff.17 November 2021 at 14:16 #72436
@ichabod A very belated but well deserved wishes on passing your 82nd. May the god above bless you with more and better years to come…
We all miss 12th. However, you forgot the best stuff about him: attack brows! 😉17 November 2021 at 22:13 #72440Mudlark @mudlark
Welcome to the forum, the home of bonkers theories.
I like your suggestion that the reason the name of a Timelord is not normally revealed is that it can be used to gain access to secret information. It is reminiscent of the old belief in some cultures that to know a person’s real name was to gain power over them, so that everyone also had a use-name by which they were known to all but their most intimate friends.
I don’t know if you have discovered the discussion on the subject of Capaldi’s Doctor, summarising our views at the end of his run. If not, it can be found by clicking on Forums, which will take you to all the archived comments on episodes, listed according to the successive Doctors. You are certainly far from alone here in thinking that his was among the greatest incarnations.
It’s good to see you surfacing again, and I agree with you about the sound balance and quality. My hearing may not be as acute as it once was in the upper registers – it is a long time since I was last able to hear bats squeaking – but it is only in drama that I ever normally have any difficulty in following what is said, and then I have to resort at times to sub-titles. In particular I tend to have trouble following Jodie Whittaker’s speech, not because of the accent – I was born not far from Huddersfield – but because of the speed of delivery; sometimes I even yearn for the bad old days when TV and film actors still ar-tic-u-la-ted the dialogue as if on the stage of a large theatre.
Like you, also, I am looking forward to RTD taking over and hoping to hang on until then. I am three years younger than you, to the day*, but not in the best of health at the moment. It’s not that I have found nothing to enjoy during Chibnall’s run, but I rapidly came to the conclusion that he doesn’t really have the right kind of imagination for science fiction/fantasy, and doesn’t fully ‘get’ the essence of Doctor Who and what makes it special.
*you probably won’t remember, but we have a birthday in common.18 November 2021 at 00:47 #72443
Hello and welcome. I don’t post much nowadays, because I refuse to watch a travesty of such a past wonderful series.
Everyone knows my views, so I shan’t bore them by repetition. *grins*
Peter Capaldi is MY Doctor too. He is supposed to be the most ‘alien’ of all the Doctors, and yet I found him to be
the most ‘human.’ Mostly thanks to Steven Moffat of course. He is the only Doctor to actually bring tears to my
eyes, when he was sad.
Missy18 November 2021 at 00:52 #72444
Hello stranger. Your word ‘wreckage’ is far better than mine.
Gods, I miss #12 . . . Wit; sorrow; rage; clever quips; and joy. I refuse to give up without seeing what the promised fresh start will bring, a couple of years (argh!) from now. Meanwhile, I’m off doing streaming — lotsa good stuff.
Oh how I agree with you. By the way, Happy 82nd. Birthday – I beat you by one. *laughs*
Missy18 November 2021 at 01:00 #72445
Good question. However, the next Doctor – apart from being a MALE *winks* – should be British.
I have always fancied Kris Marshall. He can be an absolute nutter, but when he becomes serious, one knows about sharpish.
Whoever they choose, he will have to be very agile.
Missy18 November 2021 at 01:05 #72446
Thanks for the reception
I personally do not feel that the new series and methodology has taken that much of a turn to be a different kind of travesty for sure. That is one thing I like about Whoniverse the most; the long-running legacy and the fact that one completes and complements the other. Both classic and new Who. Both have their faults and both have peaked at times. Whoniverse is a product of both put together.
Just today I was commenting elsewhere that where does the Doctor lore get its authoritative stance of being a proper “badass”; pardon my usage of the term. Where does the characterization take a turn from “Savior” to “Warrior”; like River suggested in A Good man goes to War. Is it a product of the Classics or New Who.
I would suppose it is both.
7th and Warrior played the biggest parts in that. 6 was brash and 8 had muck-ups, but compared to those two, they were soft kitties. The Warrior accidentally destroyed the whole population of Loshann and resulted in the death of Fey Truscott, in a botched mission. In a risk he did not have to take. Even the War Valeyard (Valeyard being a deeper and darker aspect of the Doctor himself, did something similar). Most of the reverence yet profound sense of fear by some, put into the word ‘Doctor’ comes from 7th. He was super-manipulative, even to his own companions, like Ace. He manipulated the Daleks to pretty much fire upon themselves. He took the rigorous acts of war as a gospel. “All is fair in love and war” was probably his motto. The Warrior and his efforts are what has earned him so many nicknames such as the Butcher of Skull Moon, oncoming storm. He was basically a Dalek-destruction engine. The theme was already present in classic Who. But it reprised after new Who, once Gallifrey was destroyed, I think. You don’t just up and destroy your own planet like it’s a Tuesday. Nine had the best portrayal of the pain that caused him, considering that he had let Gallifrey burn. He never chose to be like that again. But 10, 11 and 12 had the subtlety of hinting the “Time Lord Victorious” traces and urges between them. They had a different kind of passion (1o and 11). In some ways they would openly own up to burning down Gallifrey (House says to fear him cause he has killed many Time Lords; 11: “Fear me, …I’ve killed them ALL!”). In the comical arc The Fourth Doctor, the Voords detonate a continuity bomb that shows the multi-Doctors their worst possible outcomes, while they themselves are viewing them, as Time Ghosts. 10, 11 and 12 were present. But the 9th wasn’t called, even though he was post-Time war (The Last Great Time War). The other Doctors deduce that this is because the 9th, along with Rose Tyler, never chose to be anything less but ‘fantastic’ for the rest of his life and tenure as the Doctor. 10-12 did not have that in them. There were darker shades. I suppose to complement this, the lore of the Time War and the sense of urgency and utter desperation put into it, was stretched over the years. To balance out the “Time Lord Victorious” urges, companionship such as Amy and Clara was produced. And to balance out the Doctor’s actions, the War Master and War Valeyard, even War Susan, the efforts of President Romana after she thinks Leela has died, were introduced. All in all, I would say it is a product of both classic and New Who. But more so- the decision to let Gallifrey burn. If Gallifrey were to be intact, they could have left off, considering 7th to be manipulative and dangerous as an incarnation. But the loss of Gallifrey meant that the Doctor had to be a Time Lord victorious by other means and wins.
Then came the question of the rights and revival of monster-characters like the Daleks. Would New Who still be the same without Daleks? How would things have gone about if they weren’t revived?
Rob Shearman was of the idea to put out the notion of a form of humanity (or extraterrestrial humanoid cultures) to be its own enemy. Like Mutated version like Toclafane, that came after Daleks. He said-
“I think the cleverness of Russell’s idea is as exactly has been said – that the only other Big Bad that would have worked as the opponents in the Time War was humanity itself. But my draft of it was sold upon the mystery of their identity. The idea was that somewhere, out of the blue, this unknown alien race had appeared and attacked all sentient life – wiping out in the process races like the Daleks, and decimating ones like the Gelth. When the Doctor annihilated both Time Lords and enemy alike, he still would have had no idea what they might have been. He’d have destroyed them without ever knowing what it was that had cost him his own planet, and that would have haunted him.”
The thing Toclafane and Daleks have in common is us; the human element in the viewers. Which is why despite all that the Master has done over the years, many watchers are of the view that converting the last of the humans to the Toclafane was the worst. It is true that in a sense, that was an act of mercy, as they were cannibalized by that point. But my perfect headcanon is that somebody as skilled as the Master would have found other ways to revitalize their life-mechanisms without hacking their limbs off and sticking them into balls, like a kill-machine of his own. i suppose as merciful as that was, it was mostly for his own selfish reasons for carrying out the Invasion on Sol-3. There is always a precarious trend of exploring the darker sides of humanity and considering it the worst dangers to ourselves. This thread of thought has been explored multiple times in Doctor Who, where human are worse than the extraterrestrials they fear (Torchwood attacking the Sycorax, burning down the troop-ships of Sontaran Temporal Command when they were retreating, the killing of a tied-up Silurian by a human and the threat of wiping out their civilization, shown many times in televised Doctor Who). Toclafane would fit well into that mold. But the greater aspect of the designs of Toclafane is the human-factor, like I said. Same goes for the Daleks. The Kaleds were mutated and stuck inside Dalekanium armor shells. So our minds dread to think what they would be like inside that shell. What life would be like for any such humanoids, stuck up in shall or rolled up in a ball, even us, albeit the difference in origins. I suppose that is the factor that went into play with the creation of Toclafane, and partly the classic Daleks. My headcanon would be that, without the Daleks or any other mutated form of humanoid, we would revert back to storytelling exploring the evil in the likes of humanoids themselves. Like the Gallifreyans. Their pompous arrogance, their sanctimonious status quo reverberating throughout galaxies as the self-proclaimed Lords of Time. The hidden evil and geopolitical shrewdness hidden amidst their aristocracy, and so on. Their willingness and discriminative stances to look down upon other civilizations. Extreme measures taken at the peril of harming other races, and cover-ups. I think Gallifrey would have been a could topic to venture.
So the storytelling had to re-tweak and remodify according to the circumstances, products of both old and new Who cultures.
Series 11-13 is usually deemed bad. Series 11-13 has not been that bad for me, from a critical POV. But it isn’t definitely at par with a lot of other seasons. Jodie’s tenure as the Doctor had more modern problems for the modern world- discrimination and bias, utter desperation, social statures and stigma, institutional influences and agendas. It wasn’t bad overall. Not all Doctor stories can be about mad people in a blue box fighting the unknown.
So all in all jury isn’t out on what to think of it as a whole.
- 1. “Stupid ape!” “Everybody lives!”
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