On The Sofa (10)

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    Missy @missy


    What do I mean? Have you watched Elementary?  Sherlock Holmes it ain’t! More what I’d call a ‘spoof.’

    If you enjoy it, fine there is always room for spoof TV.


    They all regenerated in front of our eyes. If she is your Doctor, that’s fine. I am not that easily pleased unfortunately.



    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @missy must have missed a post or two didn’t  realise you we’re actually talking about Elementary, which in my opinion is probably a good example of why Americans TV  shouldn’t attempt to Americanise what is a British  literary character there is always something off about the production.

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey everyone 🙂 how are you all

    Just a quick thought I had , what if we had a Doctor Who Series from the perspective of the aliens and we see their plans ect and how to them The Doctor is ruining everything , mayby we have many types of aliens through the Series and some that are looked down upon or weaker threats to The Doctor , now we the audience dont like The Doctor and when he regenerates at the end of the Series it wont be a sadness this time it will be a triumph from our and the aliens view, I think that would be a really cool though sort of classic story telling way to twist and make the regeneration impactful but celebratory.

    What do you all think about it and would it still be Doctor Who ? 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @oochillyo Interesting concept, though I think it would be more suited to a spinoff than a series of Doctor Who.

    The problem I can see is, that as soon as we the audience start seeing things from the point of view of someone, we start sympathising with them, even if they are ‘evil’. That certainly happened with Battlestar Galactica with the Cylon ‘skin jobs’, though in that series the effect may have been intentional.

    But I really don’t think there’s any mileage for a TV series in trying to make the Doctor disliked. The producers need people to like the Doctor (and companions) as much as possible so they’ll keep tuning in. Admittedly we all love to watch interesting villains (like the Master or Missy) BUT we always want the hero (in this case the Doctor) to win in the end. Also, the concept of seeing it from the point of view of different villains (in different episodes) means the audience ‘identification’ with the protagnists is weakened. And making the Doctor disliked undercuts the main Doctor series.

    You can deviate from the normal formula of ‘heroes – good, enemies – bad’ occasionally, or for a limited number of episodes. I can think of a number of episodes of various series** that were the more interesting for breaking the usual rule of ‘good guys win’. But they need to be the exception, not the rule, otherwise the ‘good guys’ are seen as useless and not worth cheering for.
    (**For example, Danger Man, Blakes 7, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, just off the top of my head, had episodes which gained impact because they were more nuanced).

    So I think that concept might work for a single episode (and it could be a highlight of the season), but it would need to be really well-written to take advantage of the novelty factor.

    That’s my thoughts anyway.


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Still plodding my way through my rewatch of Who…   Into the Dalek

    – a very well-written episode. It did borrow one major element from ‘Fantastic Voyage’, but beyond that it was its own episode.   Random reactions:

    What a bastard Journey Blue’s uncle is, wanting to shoot the Doctor just on general principles.

    Danny Pink I instinctively disliked in the first two seconds, having once myself experienced the travesty that was ‘cadets’ in a school. It took a couple of minutes to realise he was human, specifically when he was kicking himself re-living the conversation where he gave Clara the brush-off. That was just so ‘true’, every guy has done that, I think. But not every guy has had a girl as quick and intuitive as Clara to rescue them from their mistake.

    “I’m his carer” “Yeah, she’s my carer – she cares so I don’t have to.”

    The Doctor has a savagely sarcastic streak. “Is Ross here?” “Yeah, top layer, if you want to say a few words”. Ouch! No wonder Clara observes “He’ll get us out of here. The difficult part is not killing him before he can.”

    “I am not a good Dalek. You are a good Dalek.” That’s telling him, Rusty.

    Journey Blue would have made a good Companion, I think. But the job was already taken. I did like her version of “It’s smaller on the outside” (yes I know it’s not new).

    CLARA: So, er, who makes you smile or is nobody up to the job?
    JOURNEY: My brother. But he burned to death a couple of hours ago, so he’s really letting me down today.
    – that stung.

    There were a couple of, um, logistic glitches, where I couldn’t be sure how they got from point A to point B. And their ‘escape’ from the Dalek was simply glossed over, not that it was important for the plot. But on the whole, the episode worked well.

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey everyone 🙂

    first off all thank you @dentarthurdent for your thoughts on my idea , I agree with your points that making The Doctor look like the enemy for a long time may = bad unless done really well for like important reasons.

    I think I will leave it there for now cause maybe I have other things to say about it but I am not entirely sure which sounds silly but its just a feeling ever since I say your response.

    In other news I finally decided to watch the new Doctor Who trailer and wanted to talk about it a little , spoilers in case you are planning to go into the Series with fresh eyes 🙂

    I think some of the aliens looked a bit off, not soo much the new ones cause most are pretty interesting and we haven’t seen them before so to us thats just what we have to go on looks wise however The Odd’s face looks off especially the eyes and The Sontaran’s look a bit mis-molded I know they are the classic ones but still its not quite right I think.

    The second new person in the trailer (the women with the hat) bothers me, you think its a women and 99% sure thats the case but her voice sounds like a man and I dont know whats going on there, is the way she sounds an accent I dont know of ? even still some accents dont really change they way you sound in your native dialogue and biological gender.

    I hope I have explained that well not trying to offend anyone.

    I like many of the new aliens and the battle looks cool 🙂

    Some theories I have –

    I think the black sort of dust escaping the skull guy’s eyes are the Vashta Nerada just after feeding which would be awesome 🙂

    Everyone is saying something called ‘The Swarm’ is important and maybe thats what we see around the planet (in the trailer) , or it could be the death particle spreading even through time cause of Time Lord Technology like the ‘its bigger on the Inside’ prison ship for the Daleks but I really think that perhaps it is millions of Vashta Nerada finding a new place to feed or forests to raise their young, just thought the Vashta Nerada hunt in swarms and the does seem to be a planet with trees around it but everything looks all toxic so maybe the forest is dying perhaps the Sontarans have started another breeding ground cause of the war effort not going well and have made this planet toxic which is damaging the Vashta Nerada breeding ground plus its kinda a jab at cleaning up The Planet which seems like something important Chris Chibnall will draw our attention to 🙂

    The Doctor sometimes say times in flux I think The 10th and The 11th Doctor have said that at points so mayby thats what this big story is about and anything can happen as the fabric of reality or the Void wall breaks down like in Series Two and so all these aliens and wars are molding together and time is breaking or like the proper time line is breaking.

    Admittedly I have only seen two video discussion but I am surprise I haven’t heard anyone suggest the blue crystal skull guy is The Master, is it just me ?

    First of all his voice really sounds like him, two his appearance could be cause of the effects of The Death Particle (or The Vashta Nerada at a stretch) and mayby he started regenerating but he couldn’t full heal cause of the effect of it.

    3 The TimeLord CyberMen are back which he made and they listen to him.

    Small 4 or d or the little hyphen haha just using that little joke from Voyage of The Dammed even if its a bit improvised from memory The Master always loves a big stand off with The Doctor preferably in the mist of a battle raging near them, the big scale war/ending his just his cup of Tea 🙂

    And yes there are other blue crystal skull people but mayby they were attacked by The Vashta Nerada too or The Master created or experimented on them like he did with Toclafane in Series 3 , again seems like his cup of Tea 🙂

    I keep looking at the trailer while I am typing this so not to miss or forget things and I saw 2 discussion vids and one said there may be different time periods for this event and I am really seeing that not just like visually but the Victorian looking women who says ‘its happening again’ and then you have characters from other time periods it seems I really do think this ‘event’ or the idea of it like maybe a way of life for some species is happening or happens through out many centuries

    The Doctor has said The Sontarans have been fighting the Rutans for ten’s of thousands of years maybe we are seeing some of that through these time periods and the other aliens are helping either party and maybe its the big day where Victory may be had for one side and perhaps The Doctor is trying to find peace for both sides.

    The Doctor does say ‘we dont have any more time’ maybe they dont have any more time periods to jump into to solve this war and are facing the big day or The Tardis has been shut down as the discussion vids said The Doctor and Companions may be on Gallifrey.

    Dan seems funny 🙂

    I know everyone is saying that fluffy guy looks like Chewy hehe 🙂 but I hope he is a funny or cool character and not just a joke cause the more I see him the more I am intrigued and like him just wanna hug him after all the fighting, hugs to you my friend 🙂

    As you can all tell I started off by saying I will speak a little about what I thought of the trailer and then it carried on into a movie plot itself as my ideas kept running haha 🙂 I now know that feeling of speculation buzz and joy and its wonderful hope you all enjoy the next Series and we will all have lots of fun talking and complaining about it as usual haha 🙂

    Take care everyone hugs and kisses 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey everyone 🙂

    Just realized Doc from Back To The Future often says time’s in Flux so maybe I got the wrong Doc hahaha 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Just finished watching (with Mrs Blenkinsop, of course) “Doctor Who and the Silurians”. What a great show. 1970 (I was 18) Mrs Blenkinsop would have been 15, so she came to the show a little later (I think at about 45, after we had been together for a while).

    Why is it great? The Doctor is both a serious scientist and a paragon of humanity. Liz Shaw is (as a companion) also a serious scientist, and not the flighty girl that subsequent companions would become. An admission: Liz Shaw was probably my favourite companion, and might even help explain why I married Mrs Blenkinsop.

    It is fascinating to compare it to the subsequent Silurian story with Matt Smith (also a personal favourite). The Matt Smith version retains a very similar tone (particularly the desire of humanity to destroy a perceived threat).

    The other reason I find these two Silurian stories fascinating is that Chibnall wrote the later. And I loved it. Why did Chibnall fail to deliver (in my opinion) when he became show runner?

    Anyway, to anyone who has never seen the 1970 Pertwee “Doctor Who and the Silurians” I heartily recommend it.


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @blenkinsopthebrave       “Chibnall wrote the latter. And I loved it. Why did Chibnall fail to deliver (in my opinion) when he became show runner?”

    I’m always a sucker to try and answer these questions. I’ll try not to start any fires 🙂

    The Silurian episodes were competently-written enemy-alien stories. But if you take ‘The Power of Three’ for example, it had a really fascinating premise – the cubes – but it failed to deliver in a convincing way. I was quite disappointed by that, I felt the cubes were so neat they really deserved a suitably ingenious explanation.

    But I don’t think Chibnall has the Moff’s talent for (a) really clever, ingenious and witty dialogue, and (b) keeping track of complicated plots. (I know (b) doesn’t appeal to some, but it does to me).

    So I think Moff was able to inject enough originality into the series to make them successful. Not every episode of course. And of course I like his style so I’m biassed.   For example, the next ep I’m due to watch is ‘Listen’, I just can’t imagine anyone but the Moff ever writing that.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Just watched Robot of Sherwood, which is a lightweight episode, enjoyable enough if you don’t take it too seriously.

    Ben Miller was good as the (surprisingly rational) Sheriff of Nottingham – “Why would we create an enemy to fight us? What sense would that make? That would be a terrible idea.”

    The one thing that gave me major trouble was the golden arrow at the end. Yes I know they needed a McGuffin that required the co-operation of Robin, Clara and the Doc, but its execution was lacking. First, I doubt anyone could shoot an arrow far enough to hit the ship. But far more difficult – why would hitting the ship give it any extra power? I can accept needing gold for ‘power grids’ or whatever. But the arrow had no time to be built into circuitry. And gold certainly couldn’t be used as a power source, its unreactivity (along with its conductivity) is what makes it so valuable. (I’m an engineer, I have my own idiosyncratic set of things-I’ll-suspend-disbelief for, and things that just don’t work for me).

    A pity, after they went to the effort to explain why the weather was so unseasonably warm.

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Hi fellow whovians set your, set tops, vcrs for 18:25  BBC1 next Sunday for the first episode of the new who season. Of course the Episode is titled Halloween Armageddon.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Leads me to wonder, how do Whovians in other regions of space-time than the UK, manage with new episodes?    (I just do it asynchronous, don’t even try to catch TV series on TV, just get the DVD’s.   So I’m always a couple of years behind the latest, but it’s ‘new’ to me).

    winston @winston

    @dentarthurdent    I usually have to wait until the series is over and I see my son ,who tapes them for me. I am always a little behind except last series when I watched the first few episodes at a friends house. It was played with commercial breaks and that really gets on my nerves (they never get it right)  so I gave up and waited for my son to bring them to me. I always tell Mr Winston that as a Who fan I am very patient and since I have waited this long a few extra weeks won’t matter. As I say that I realize how much I like watching it at the same time as all the other Whovians but the budget doesn’t allow for satellite TV or streaming  or whatever so I wait.

    But………I really want to watch it on Halloween!

    Stay safe

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    To all Canadian Whovians. I have discovered that season 13 is available on CTV SciFiChannel…if one knew how to access it…

    Any and all advice would be wonderful.


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @winston    I hate commercial breaks too.   That’s one of the advantages of watching on DVD (along with being able to watch it when I want, and some of the DVD extras are interesting).

    I do miss video rental shops (I used to rent Who before I took the plunge and acquired my own sets).    There was something very satisfying about a big well-stocked shop full of DVDs.    A quarter mile from where I worked, there was a video store that specialised in ‘cult TV’ – series, whether sci-fi, fantasy, westerns, period dramas and the like.   It had everything sci-fi – Trek, Who, Blakes 7, Galactica, Farscape, Red Dwarf, Stargate, X-files, yadda yadda…   (not that I followed all of those!).     Sadly, eventually the lease expired and it closed.

    (As an aside, I was going to post my comments on ‘Listen’ (because that is where I’m up to) here, but – given that Who is about to resume on TV so I guess this area will fill up with chat, it doesn’t need more from me  🙂   – I stuck it in the designated thread for the episode.)

    winston @winston

    @blenkinsopthebrave  I know that SciFi is on Bell satellite but also on Crave (owned by Bell) which I think is a streaming Netflix type thing. Maybe Crave has a free trial?  I am really hopeless with this stuff. Sorry.

    Stay safe.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    So here I am, plodding my solitary way through the abandoned ruins of Season 8, while everyone has fled to the bright lights and the attractions of New Episodes. I’m sure I could try to locate a streaming service of some sort, but I haven’t even watched (or acquired) Season 12 yet…

    I can’t find a forum for Time Heist so I’ll just plonk my impressions here – Time Heist – quite an intriguing episode, though tends to be overshadowed by ‘Listen’ which preceded it. The intro certainly grabs you, with the jump from Clara’s flat to the conspiratorial hidey-hole in the bank.

    The recorded message, which ends “A team will have been dispatched to terminate you” – so, not wasting time! The usual stock sequence that used to take up ten minutes of screen time in those old ‘action’ clunkers like “The A team”, here takes 30 seconds.

    “Open up, and you will be humanely disposed of.” “Please stand away from the door. We do not wish to hurt you before incineration.” – I detect the fine hand of the Moff in this dialogue. PC threats, how nice.

    Gotta love the classic heist-movie-style slow-mo shots of them striding in formation through the courtyard. But the Teller is terrifying.

    DOCTOR: Oh, don’t be so pessimistic. It’ll affect team morale.
    SAIBRA: What, and getting us blown up won’t?
    DOCTOR: Well, only very, very briefly.

    PSI: Still don’t understand why you’re in charge.
    DOCTOR: Basically, it’s the eyebrows.

    Interesting collection of crims that Psi projects to distract the Teller from Clara – I can see the Gunslinger, an Ice Warrior, a Slitheen, a Silurian, doubtless others.

    It was a pleasant surprise that Psi and Saibra weren’t dead, just teleported. And I never, ever, suspected they were going to be rescuing the Teller. That was a twist.

    Is this the first episode where the Doctor deliberately involves Clara in a highly hazardous adventure? (Rather than the adventure creeping up on them?) Never mind that Clara is ‘up for it’, I do rather have to question the Doctor’s judgement. Not complaining mind you.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent  I am also wallowing on old episodes. We have yet to watch the new episode. I admit I want to see what the series has in store before i watch it. We are currently watching some classic Moffat, Girl in the Fireplace.

    Perhaps becasue it followed Listen which is so good initially I did not warm to Time Heist but it has really “grown” on me. Psi and Saibra are such good characters, there are so many good moments in the episode and Capaldi has really hit his stride by now.




    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent


    Yes,  Time Heist had the same effect on me – it seemed far better to me this time around (when I wasn’t expecting much) than the first time I viewed the season coming straight off  Listen.

    Sometimes expectations lead to inverse results.   I remember the second time I watched Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid, it fell very flat because, after the first watching blew me away, I was just expecting too much.   The third time, much later, I enjoyed it again.   The same went for the Beatles film ‘Help’.

    Girl in the Fireplace is always a good episode, though.   There is something very Doug Adams-ish about the literal-minded droids just wanting a spare part for their ship.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    It’s a long time since I last viewed Time Heist, but it remains in my mind as one of the more memorable ones of the Moffat/Capaldi era; the plot was so ingeniously and elegantly constructed, the production very stylish and, like you, I found much to savour in the dialogue. I don’t recall feeling that it was a come-down after Listen, although it is very different

    If you want to investigate the original discussion on the episode, it can still be found under Forums, on the third page of 12th Doctor episodes. The episodes aren’t listed in the order in which they were shown, which can be confusing.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @mudlark     Oh, right!    Just found it.   I did go looking originally, but totally failed to find it.   I missed that there was more than one page of Twelfth Doctor episodes  (should have had more faith in this site!)      I also looked in ‘Steven Moffat retrospective’ (since he co-wrote it) but it definitely wasn’t there.    My fault I guess.

    Sometimes forums do take a bit of searching.   Sometimes  On The Sofa  and  Winchester  are quite hard to find (I now know to look under ‘Forums – General’).   There are direct links on the home page but they’re buried way down it.

    Coming back to Time Heist, I find it really odd that – on the DVD set – neither Listen or Time Heist has a commentary, I would love to hear the writers’ take on the plot.    But it’s weird, almost as if the boxset producers had perversely said ‘we’ll only do commentaries on the so-so episodes, not the top-rated ones’.   (These are all the series 8 and 9 eps that got commentaries:  Into the Dalek, Robot of Sherwood, The Caretaker, Kill The Moon, Last Christmas, Under the Lake, Before the Flood, The Woman Who Lived, Sleep No More.    That’s it.  All the rest didn’t.   Even allowing that tastes vary, I find it hard to believe that most of the eps on that list outrank  Deep Breath, Listen, Mummy on the Orient Express, Flatline, Dark Water, Death in Heaven, Magician’s Apprentice, Witch’s Familiar, Zygon Invasion / Inversion, Face the Raven, Heaven Sent, or Hell Bent.)

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    So I just posted a massive (and uncomplimentary) screed on the Kill The Moon thread. If you loved KTM then please, don’t go and look. 🙂      I don’t want to retrospectively spoil any one’s enjoyment.

    I was almost dreading coming up to KTM in the sequence. I sort of overcame my reluctance by writing down my impressions as I went. There was a lot more than I remembered.

    Why did it fail to impress me? Too many impossibilities. Yeah, I know, I accept time travel, sonic screwdrivers and bigger on the inside, but they’re well established elements. Other factors – like, say, the bubble universe in The Doctor’s Wife – all take place far from Earth in a suitably fantastic part of the Universe. But gravity magically changing by itself, the Moon causing high tides ‘everywhere at once’, a Space Shuttle (which is a great big glider) landing on the airless Moon, and a dozen other things that I know are impossible – just causes “impossibility overload.”

    A bit like McGyver – I could never watch a single episode of that, because every ‘clever’ trick seemed to have been made as gratuitously ridiculous as possible. I suspect the producers’ legal department had issued a diktat – “make it so it can obviously never work in case someone tries it and sues us”.

    Also, Courtney was annoying. And I don’t think it’s in this Doctor’s character to suffer fools gladly. But then the Doctor (who in various incarnations has saved the Earth more times than I can count) decides this is the moment to faff off and leave ‘humans’ to figure it out for themselves? Sort of undercuts all the other times he’s helped, I think.

    Never mind, Mummy on the Orient Express next.


    idiotsavon @idiotsavon

    Well hello!

    Many apologies for being such a fairweather friend, only rocking up when there is new Dr Who to be watched.

    Some of you may have clocked that it’s been a crazy couple of years. I hope you and yours have all stayed well and in good health.

    And also that you’ve remained in good spirits. Apocalyptic turmoil, dread and seclusion can take their toll on the best of us.

    I haven’t seen any of this season’s episodes yet. Just wanted to drop in now, say hello and hopefully catch up with the threads when I’ve had a chance to watch.


    Mostly, just want to say, I’m so glad this forum is still here! Thank you @craig for keeping it going.

    I’ve missed this <3


    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey @idiotsavon how are you 🙂

    You are new to me if that makes sense but I find it lovely that this Community is always open to everyone no matter how long you’ve been away and its nice to have a part of the Community back 🙂

    Ps I think the New Series is amazing so far hope you enjoy it too 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    janetteB @janetteb

    @idiotsavon Good to have you back. Lots to catch up on 🙂

    I have not started watching the new series either. I am waiting for it to end then I will watch it. I like to know what I am “in for”. (Yes I am one of those people who already reads the back page first.)



    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Hi @janetteb    I also haven’t started watching the new series (or in fact the one before that.   I have yet to acquire the boxset).   I’m used to coming late to the party though.

    Oddly enough, I was just reading some of the comments in the Mummy on the Orient Express thread (I just posted my comments on the episode, then I went back and read some of the thread).    There was quite some discussion on Clara’s then-current attitude and much speculation about whether she was going to settle down with Danny and leave the Doc, or whether she was embarked on a destructive downward course that would End Badly…   foreknowledge adds a distinctive ‘edge’ to the discussion   (a bit like the scene in the diner in Hell Bent, where what the characters are saying has overtones they don’t know about).     I had a strong urge to grab a handy time machine, go back seven years and post in the middle of the discussion, “You guys have not the slightest idea what’s going to happen    🙂 ”


    Missy @missy


    I don’t believe it!

    A friend and I were talking about people who actually do read the back page of a novel first?

    You obviously don’t like surprises. *grins*

    Why bother to read the book at all, or watch any series? *scratches head*

    Glad everyone is well.


    Missy @missy


    So sorry for delay, I agree with you.


    nerys @nerys

    So happy to be back in the land of the masked and physically distanced! My solo road trip to visit family and friends in Indiana and Ontario was well timed and enjoyable. So glad I did it!

    Stuff happens in threes, right? Rear turn signal bulb burnt out (fixed in Auburn, Mass.); tire blowout (fixed in Albany, N.Y.); and muffler coming loose, damaging the catalytic converter, which may have been a casualty of the New York pothole (Band-Aid fix in Florenceville, N.B.). So my southern tour featured stops in mechanics’ garages all over North America.

    On one hand, it might seem unlucky that I had these mishaps. But, on the other hand, I was able to get every mechanical issue fixed quickly, and I was safe and in good hands every time. So it felt like I had a guardian angel sitting on my shoulder the whole way there and back.

    And a new season of Doctor Who started up while I was away! On to the episode threads ….

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @nerys     Pleased to hear your trip went OK,  I seem to recall you were quite anxious about the prospect before you went.    To tell the truth, I often get slight feeling of trepidation when setting out on a long trip, even though I know a fair bit about my cars and have done almost every mechanical job on mine at one time or another.   But there’s a big difference between fixing something at my leisure in my garage with all tools at hand, and trying to troubleshoot on the roadside at night in the rain with a storm going on   🙂    Once I get going the uncertainty disappears, at least until the reassuring noise up front develops a hiccup.

    Anyway, pleased to hear you were fortunate with mechanics and nothing disastrous happened.

    Um, Florenceville, N.B.     (I won’t Google yet but – N.B. ?     New Brunswick?    (Can’t think of any US state with those initials).

    winston @winston

    @nerys  Good to see you back in one piece even if your car has a few new pieces.It is nice that all your issues were fixed and you were on your way. A guardian angel for our car would be nice.

    When we drove to B.C. we damaged the muffler day 2 , hubby repaired it but day 4 we hit a bump and it broke again. It sounded like a stock car until he repaired it again so all was good for a day and then the car windows wouldn’t open. That was a pain but manageable and all was good till a few hours from my daughters house(our final destination) when we hit a bump and the muffler all but fell off. We pulled into her little town in our giant Crown Vic, named the Princess Vickie,  sounding like a tank and puffing smoke. Poor girl.

    Have fun catching up on the new series!

    Stay safe.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @nerys good to hear that you are back safely despite car problems. Cars are such a mixed blessing.

    Our second son is currently camping with friends and decided to take our large family tent which has not been used for a few years. He rang at about 7.00 pm last night to say that the tent poles were broken. Not sure how that eventuated.



    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    So I just posted a longish screed on the Flatline thread.   This is an absolutely delightful episode, even better than Mummy (in my view).   And the logic of the episode hangs together well, I can follow it even better on subsequent viewings when I’m familiar with the plotline.  Just a joy to watch.

    The exchanges between the Doctor and Clara are fascinating, both from the Doctor’s sarcastic in-Clara’s-ear comments, and the reversal of roles where Clara is unavoidably in the driving seat.   I guess people who think Clara (or any companion) is too important will hate this ep, I’m perfectly okay with that aspect of it.    And unlike Kill the Moon where Clara’s reluctant prominence was forced on her by some completely out-of-character behaviour by the Doctor, in this episode it all happened perfectly naturally and credibly.

    nerys @nerys

    @dentarthurdent Well, my long reply just vanished into the ether, so I won’t even try to retype the whole thing. But yes, N.B. stands for New Brunswick, the province to our north and west.

    I drove 6,289 kilometres (3,908 miles) round-trip. ‘Twas a long one, especially doing it solo. But having the Appalachian Mountains as your backdrop (Berkshires in New York, Blue Ridge Mountains in West Virginia, Poconos in Pennsylvania, Laurentians in Quebec and the Cobequid Pass in New Brunswick) turns it into the most scenic of drives.

    And to see family and friends for the first time in two and a half years was such a joy! It took a weight off my shoulders that I didn’t even realize was there … till it was gone.

    Now, to bring this back on-topic: We finally received the Season 2 DVDs for Unforgotten. So, between that and new Who, TV viewing is exciting again!

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    Hay I managed to get in at last!

    Which is great because this new series is at least providing much to think about (and bonkerly speculate). But also because I’m struggling to follow – this might be a problem with this run, I’ve already seen I’m not quite the only one but it’s also because…

    We came home from spending the night away on the 31st to find my mother, who lived with us, had died. I did end up watching the first episode, once the paramedics, police, and coroner person had left. I didn’t take much in then (though I enjoyed it), and I haven’t seemed to take in much of the subsequent episodes either. Which is kind of a shame because between trying to finish my dissertation and organise various legal things, I feel a need for speculation. But reading a lot of comments on the threads is actually helping, so thanks everyone.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @miapatrick Sorry sorry  to hear about your Mum. It always takes a long time to process, to adjust to a changed reality I hope that Dr Who helps.



    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @nerys   Almost 4000 miles – that is a long trip.   I can’t really match that – in NZ one tends to run out of land.   The furthest I can go is about 1000 miles (and that needs a ferry crossing), then I have to turn round and come back.

    But yes, from what I can tell, (and I only know North America from reading and a liking for geography and landscape), you ‘chose’ a scenic region for your trip.   (I say ‘chose’, maybe ‘had it furnished by geography’ would be a better way to put it   🙂



    winston @winston

    @miapatrick   I am so sorry for your loss and the shock of it all. No matter how old we are the loss of our Mom is hard to take. Only time will ease your pain but I hope you find comfort where you can and Who is good for that.

    Stay safe.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @miapatrick My deepest sympathies. You take care.


    Hi! Just Popping in to say hello. New member here. David.B from Montreal. Hotelier; Junior Service Associate and Food Management Associate at Co-working Space. A hardcore sci-fi enthusiast, tattoo and mini-comic strip artist. I also try making fan-fiction of Doctor Who, based on Prose and Audio sources. A major fan of Whoniverse since 2008. Then went back to binge the Classics and New Who together a few time more. Like so many of my generation, I have been smitten by New Who fever, forever, until I got to reconnect back to the classic series as well. For most fandoms, we, the newer generation have seen episodes further down the line, first, then gone back. Happens for any kind of series and fandom (Sentai, Ultra and Goji series, fandoms like Star Trek and Star Wars). But Doctor Who was one of those rare fandoms, that pulls you in, like a magnet, wherever you start. Some might say it’s “wibbly-wobbly“. I like to think that the DW Universe (Whoniverse) is just such a wonder, which attracts you and mesmerizes your senses wherever you choose to start. Or ‘whenever’. Personally, I like Doctor Who best because everything ties in so well together, both classic and new versions. They are part of the same ongoing legacy, of sorts. And anything, even the most random of thoughts is mainstream and canonical. Nobody refutes you by mentioning some other source of information. That is the thought that crosses my mind the most, as I take my place in this ‘sofa’; how big and astonishingly ever-increasing the Whoniverse is…..and how utterly I am going to enjoy whatever comes next.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @miapatrick My sympathy for your loss.
    You said ‘we’ so I think you have someone with you – I hope so, it would be a bad time to be alone. Hopefully Who can provide some distraction, though (I know the feeling) you can watch an episode and realise at the end that you never took any of it in. As you said.

    nerys @nerys

    @miapatrick I am so sorry about your mother. I’m glad that posting and reading here give you some respite. Hugs!


    A bit out of topic from what everyone is discussing, but does anybody know where to mail DW fan letters or fanart to?

    dwm@panini.co.uk – The official Doctor Who Magazine letters page is not working. My simple artworks are getting blocked, along with the whole mail.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    My sympathy and condolences in the loss of your mother. You must still be in shock, but it is good to know that visiting this forum helps provide some distraction, however brief, from everything which you are currently having to deal with.

    Missy @missy


    What a dreadful shock, I am  very sad for you my dear.

    When someone close to you dies, it leaves an empty space.

    You will fill it though, it just takes time.


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    I must have seen a favourable review of the 7th Doctor’s episode Remembrance of the Daleks, because I ordered the DVD – arrived a couple of days ago in the mail.   Two disks, one devoted to Davros, the other to the episode, complete with a commentary.

    There doesn’t seem to be a forum for this episode, so I’ll put my comments here…

    Remembrance of the Daleks

    I watched the ep last night, now just listening to the commentary, with Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred. (That’s how commentaries *should* be, with the stars, not just some nominal make-weight with the wardrobe assistant and one of the supporting cast who got killed in Part Two…). So this is a sort of combined impression of the episode plus the commentary.

    Sophie does have a lovely light clear voice (in the commentary) – maybe not quite right for a tough teenager, but I’m not complaining. Ace does look very – young, but this was the first full episode she appeared in (I think). She got more assured in later episodes.

    I was surprised at Ace’s perplexity at Old English Money – what planet is she from? I hadn’t realised decimal currency came in so long ago…

    That Bedford van! – column change, brings back memories (and not good ones!) And (bit later) there’s a Morris Commercial! Which Sophie thought was antiquated even when they made the episode (it was!).

    And then we have a Dalek at last. Lots of Daleks, in fact. The Dalek budget for this episode must have been quite generous.

    Sophie waxed indignant at the reputation of Who for ‘wobbly sets’ but as McCoy pointed out, that was mostly much earlier Who. (And besides, if any series had a trademark in wobbly sets, it has to be Blakes 7). And Sophie has evidently read Hitch-Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, I’m happy to note (ref Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters).

    And now we have – the first time ever (McCoy just confirmed it) that a Dalek can climb stairs. (And I thought that was a new thing in ‘Dalek’). Apparently done with a couple of stagehands behind the ‘wall’ dragging it up on a rail. I had assumed it was hung on wires, but of course CGI wire removal wasn’t a thing in those days.

    And Ace gets her hands on a anti-tank missile (both that, and the various rifles, looked pretty authentic, I assume they were the correct period). And Sophie actually got to fire it (I presume it was a dummy round, but the rocket part of it worked). It certainly looked impressive.

    The floating casket with the Hand of Omega in the cemetery looks very two-dimensional – the limitations of early CGI.

    McCoy delights in pointing out production glitches, like scripts poking out of the Doctor’s pockets.

    Big fake-out of the black Darth Vader-like Dalek commander who we assume is Davros…

    And we have Ace enthusiastically whacking the daylights out of a poor unsuspecting Dalek. (The wrong Dalek, as it later turned out).

    Then we have the egghead Dalek – what Sophie aptly called the ‘roll-on deodorant’ but reminds me of Marvin the Paranoid Android from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy movie.

    And we’ve had black Daleks and white Daleks, and now grey Daleks. No shortage of Daleks in this episode. (And Ace and the Doc hiding behind a Ford 100E Prefect. No that couldn’t possibly be a nod to Doug Adams…?)

    The ‘time controller’ plasma globe still looks impressive, even though it was turned into a popular toy shortly after. Of course Ace goes to grab it and the Doc has to swat her hands away with his hat – it’s this sort of by-play that makes this Doc so entertaining. And then he does a genuine conjuring trick with a playing card – nice! Re-watching it several times, I can see how he does it – but the first time, I thought it was a trick jump cut.

    And yet more white Daleks. And… the Special Weapons Dalek. Now that thing really looks like heavy artillery (which of course it is).   Most impressive.

    And the roll-on deodorant can turns out to contain Davros. Somehow it looks too ridiculous to be sinister.

    So anyway – not a bad episode. At least when the monsters are Daleks, they don’t suffer from the common rubber-monster failing of looking absurd. Davros is the only rubber monster here and he’s passably convincing. Would still be nice to see the episode with modern levels of special effects.


    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent I did try to watch it a few years ago but did not get past the first few minutes, that however might have been more a reflection of my mood at the time and not the watchability of the story. I really should try it again. I enjoy the later McCoy stories. Ace was a good companion, the best since Romana left. It really felt as though the show was picking up again and had potential when it was cancelled.



    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb   Yes, I got that feeling – that the show had potential as you say – from the last 3 stories (which are the only other Seven stories I’ve seen).   Certainly from what I’ve seen of con footage, and from the commentary to Remembrance,  Ace and Seven (that is to say, Sophie and McCoy) seemed to get on really well together.     I may try and pick up some more Seven stories in the near future.

    @dentarthurdent    (This is just a test to see if the Forum sends me a copy –  I just changed laptops & I’m not sure if I set all the mailserver settings right)

    Your-Favourite-Thing @your-favourite-thing

    Hello All,
    I am new to the site and was wondering what are the rules about selling items?

    I recently bought a sight unseen storage unit and amongst the items inside were some Doctor Who figures. I am still going through the stuff I took out the storage unit and putting them on eBay.

    In addition, a pristine copy of Time’s Champion (2008) book was there, amongst some other books. I’ve looked on the internet and eBay and cannot find a listing for it, do you think anybody would want this book, or shall I give it to a charity shop along with the other books I found.

    Best Regards,

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @janetteb, @winston, @blenkinsopthebrave, @dentarthurdent, @nerys, @mudlark, @missy,  thank you all. And yes, I live with my partner, who actually found her (I didn’t see her) and he’s been fantastic, doing most of the sorting through of things in her rooms upstairs (she was something of a hoarder) while I try to plug on with finishing my dissertation. I can’t imagine what it would have been like if I was here alone, I’m very lucky.

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