Doctor Who memories
5 March 2021 at 22:25 #71474baines @baines
I agree, Moffat has a real talent for creating iconic and terrifying monsters! The fear of what you can’t see is used to some extent with the gas-mask zombies and the clockwork droids as they wear those creepy masks, and they are brilliant villains as well. I actually think the most disturbing monster ever in Doctor Who is Davies’ creation: that creature in Midnight. The fact that we know so little about it makes it work so well. It’s even more chilling that the humans were the real monsters in that episode …
Yeah, Amy’s departure is really moving and well-done. I thought it was the saddest scene ever when I first saw it, although on re-watch I think Donna’s exit tops it as the most tragic of the revival and probably the whole show.7 March 2021 at 02:50 #71476
@missy The Vashtra Nerada Sure scare the heck out of me. A lifelong coward when it comes to the dark they gave me the creeps! Look what they did to that chicken bone. The Weeping Angels are pretty frightening, who of us doesn’t blink? @dentarthurdent Did you become aware at how many statues there are out there? Even in our little town there are a few in parks and at my Dads cemetery there are a few actual weeping angels.
@baines What happened on Midnight, what or who was it? It didn’t take the mob long to turn on each other, was it the entity or human nature? Spooky episode.
I would like to add my own invisible monster and that is House from “The Doctors Wife”. That one is very bad, he lures Time Lords there and kills them, he uses people like machines changing parts to keep them working until he doesn’t need them anymore and he tortures poor Amy and Rory like a cat with a mouse. All in all a terrible entity.7 March 2021 at 03:30 #71477
Good to hear from you, I was feeling invisible! 🖐
I too am afraid of the dark and still make sure that neither foot is hanging over the side of my bed – just in case (as Clara does) someone or something, grabs it!
Weeping angels definitely frightening and the House, as you say (love that one, trust Neil Gaiman to think of bringing the Tardis to life)
As for Midnight, it was the human element which scared me. Savagery is only just below the surface of we humans, fear releases it.
Missy7 March 2021 at 08:13 #71478
@winston Yes, statues are everywhere. To adapt the saying about Vashta Nerada, “it’s not every shadow, but any shadow could be”. Same goes for statues and Angels.
@baines @missy Yes, the monster in Midnight was one of the most classic. Even though the human mob mentality was at least as dangerous to a rational being like the Doctor. The stewardess redeemed herself at the end, and then nobody even knew her name. That was a masterly touch of – [I can’t think of the word. Pathos? ]
The clockwork repair droids of Girl in the Fireplace, though scary, weren’t intentionally malevolent. Just misprogrammed. They just wanted Madame de Pompadour as a spare part to fix their ship – nice twist in the tail. But the ending of that episode was tragic, in the way that loss always is – the Doctor just missed Reinette by a few hours.
The Silents also qualify as an ‘invisible’ monster, I think. They look hideously scary when you see them (remind me of Edvard Munch’s ‘The Scream’), but of course you forget the moment you look away. So – if you can’t see a Silent right now – that doesn’t mean there isn’t one, standing right behind your chair. That is spooky! That not only plays into the invisibility factor, but also our fears of amnesia. If you can’t trust your memory, what grip do you have on reality? And then you see all the count marks you made on your hands, and you realise you’ve had many, many encounters with them you can’t remember and they’re probably all around you right now.9 March 2021 at 03:33 #71481
@missy Hi to you too! I don’t even like my blankets to hang over the edge of the bed, an old habit from childhood when I suffered from terrible night fears. Maybe that is why I am scared by the unseen threats more than the obvious ones.Like the thing under the blanket in Listen or who\what bangs on the ship in the same episode and of course the entity in Midnight. Imagination is everything.
I hope everything is OK with you and that you are getting through these tough times with a little help from the Doctor and his friends.
@dentarthurdent I think that the monsters who have no motive and ” just do what they do” are even scarier. Like the clockwork men using human body parts to repair their ship or the little robots who want you to be happy or they will kill you or even the Vashtra Nerada who were hungry. They don’t hate you or fear you and they aren’t crazy, they just kill you. Its what they do. Chilling.
Stay safe.9 March 2021 at 07:12 #71482
@winston Oh yes, those happy-face robots in ‘Smile’ were scary. Not least because of the idea that your own fears would cause them to kill you. Be happy or you die. By the way, wasn’t the architecture in that episode fantastic? I’m NOT a fan of most modern architecture but I am of Calatrava, since I arrived at Lisbon Oriente station on a train and was struck by how amazing the place looked. (Yes I had to look him up, never heard of him before that. He did the City of Arts and Sciences in Valencia where Smile was filmed).
Also in the way of well-intentioned white bots who will kill you, the robots in ‘The Girl Who Waited’. ‘This is a kindness’ indeed. With an absolutely tragic ending and a magnificent performance by Karen Gillan. That episode, along with Midnight and Blink, is right up there on my list of low-budget one-off episodes that prove that sometimes, less is more.
@missy I have to admit, if I’m alone in the house at night, I used to be nervous of the dark. Not really terrified, it was more like being apprehensive *in case* I started to panic. Which is weird. For some reason, recently, I’ve got a bit more fatalistic about it, there’s probably nothing there and if there is, there’s nothing I can do about it anyway. But I still feel much more relaxed if there’s someone else in the house, which is also quite irrational. I’d still avoid watching ‘Listen’ late at night and alone, though.12 March 2021 at 02:26 #71484
@dentarthurdent Well you learn something new everyday. I had no idea that the set for Smile was a real place.It looked so futuristic that I thought it was special effects. Next stop is googling the place. Thanks.
All that white feels too antiseptic to me like the cubicle you sit in for a blood test. Beautiful but way to hard to keep clean.
Stay safe.14 March 2021 at 20:55 #71485
@missy I too am part of the “afraid of the dark” club. Like @winston, I suffered from night terrors as a child. Horror films and scary TV shows (The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits) would keep me awake with night sweats for weeks on end afterward. Seeing The Godfather, a story of human monsters, at a drive-in movie theater nearly did me in. I kept pulling up the blankets all night long, imagining that poor horse’s head at the end of my bed. Jaws was the last film to have that effect on me … thank God!
To all who remember the power of “Midnight” … it is one of my favourite episodes, for the very reasons everyone has cited. The monster was unseen, rendering it even more frightening by leaving most of the details to our imagination. The fact that it was produced in such a streamlined way, almost like a play, made it even more effective. I was totally riveted by the acting, especially between David Tennant and Lesley Sharp. The moment when Sky’s mimicry of the Doctor meets, then precedes him is terrifying. But the monster in us, the mob mentality that threatened to destroy them all, proved most terrifying.16 March 2021 at 03:25 #71486
@nerys It is surprising how scary and shocking that horse head in the bed was. I remember the movie making me feel stressed and anxious for days even though I was a young adult when I saw it. I have a low tolerance for scary movies to this day and rarely watch things that make me feel that way. Even some episodes of Doctor Who ,like Midnight , scare me and I don’t watch them very much. The people in that episode who seemed so nice and normal, when scared, turned into monsters themselves. It happens all the time in the real world and that is why that episode is so scary.
I still don’t like the dark night to this day. Bring on the morning.
Stay safe.20 March 2021 at 20:11 #71487
@winston I was in Grade 7 when I saw The Godfather. My parents took me to see that, if you can believe it. I guess they didn’t want to leave me at home alone (my older sister was working at the drive-in). I would have been far better off without seeing that. My mother and sister especially loved scary stuff. I think they got an adrenaline rush from it … and maybe they still do. I had to learn to live with it, because it was always part of our household.
I’m OK with horror fiction. I loved reading Stephen King on into my young adult years. Then one of his books (I think it was Gerald’s Game) just didn’t enthrall me the way the others had, so I took a hiatus. Just this year, I got back on the Stephen King train and am enjoying it. I am amazed at his continuing ability to create new stories in the horror genre.
Back to The Godfather: You know what’s weird? Now I love that trilogy of films (though the third is vastly weaker than its predecessors). What changed it for me was when NBC ran Parts I and II as a miniseries, in chronological order and with scenes not included in the theatrical releases added in. The violence was muted, because it was for a television audience. Somehow, seeing it in that way made me understand the family story that was told, and I could see the brilliance in the acting, writing and direction. Without that miniseries, I doubt that I would have learned to appreciate those films. For decades now, I’ve been able to watch them without my childhood terrors creeping in to repulse me.24 March 2021 at 01:11 #71490
@nerys My mother took us to see The Night of the Living Dead at the drive-in way back in the 60s.They used to play a family movie than a not so family movie that us kids were supposed to sleep through. I did not! What were they thinking? Anyway when I wanted my granddaughter to watch Doctor Who I was worried it might scare her but it didn’t scare her in the least. I know they see way more on screen now then was ever possible when I was a kid. If I had watched the Doctor when I was a child it would have scared me stiff. The Angels would have given me nightmares.
Stay safe.27 March 2021 at 02:34 #71497
@winston: Yes, me too. At my great age you would think I would have got over it? Not at all.🙄 Yes, thank you, I am bearing up. As I tell my children I still have a pulse!😄 What about you?
@dentarthurdent: When I am alone – which is all the time – in the house, sudden noises, bangs etc make me jump,
Usually, it’s just the water pipes!
@nerys: It’s odd, I can watch the occasional horror film, but NEVER a ghost story before I go to bed! I also went through a phase of Stephen King, my favourites are Salem’s Lot and Christine.
Missy27 March 2021 at 05:32 #71501
@missy Well, last night while Mrs D was out babysitting, I was watching TV and there was an Unexplained Thud in the kitchen. Or maybe it was an Unexplained Clonk. And a definite whirring noise. Quite unnerving. I can only imagine that it was the fridge, starting up. The Noise had gone when I went to investigate, half an hour later 🙂
We used to get occasional scrapes and thuds in the ceiling, but I think that was just possums that had got in.
I do avoid watching anything too scary late at night. Such as ‘Listen’ 🙂29 March 2021 at 03:16 #71502
@missy I am happy to see you are doing OK. Of course a pulse is important. We are doing fine, keeping to ourselves and staying home most of the time. We just finished doing a batch of maple syrup which keeps us busy and sticky for days. It just tastes so good. We usually get enough for family and friends but the spring weather was too warm so we didn’t get as much sap so we only have enough for family. Home made is always better.
We have discussed the episodes that scare us but which ones do the opposite and calm or cheer you. For me it is often the Xmas episodes because I like Xmas and happy endings. One that makes me happy is The Husbands of River Song. It is funny, exciting and romantic and it gives us a satisfying end to the River Song saga. It also introduces us to Nardole who becomes a great companion.
The Empty Child\ Doctor Dances is also worth it for the great feelings we share with the Doctor at the end when”Everybody lives!” and it introduces us to Captain Jack who always makes me smile. It is also a story of strength and survival against all odds and has an ending that might make you cry happy tears. Plus the Doctor dances.
These days we need cheering up now and then , maybe my picks will do the trick. Maybe your picks will too.
Stay safe.29 March 2021 at 04:21 #71504
@winston, now that is going to be a long list. Definitely the Christmas Specials, The Christmas Invasion, A Christmas Carol, the Snowmen, The Doctor the Widow and the Wardrobe and Husbands of River Song with Runaway Bride, Voyage of the Damned, the Next Doctor, Time of the Doctor and Doctor Mysterio not quite so good but still a joy to watch. I have not included Twice Upon a Time on this list because it is not a “happy” watch. (Still a favourite though)
I try to save the Christmas Specials up though for the run up to Christmas. During the year my “happy” list would have to include the Empty Child and the Doctor Dances, The Eleventh Hour, School Reunion because it brings back Sarah Jane, Gridlock, (it has kittens) Partners in Crime, a silly episode but I love that scene where they are messaging through the windows, Turn left, it is sad but ends up with Donna undoing all the horrible things that happened, if only we all could do that.. The Lodger, A Good Man Goes to War, Cold War, Robot of Sherwood, Listen, Time Heist, The Caretaker, In the Forest of the Night, Thin Ice, Empress of Mars and Eaters of Light, It Takes you Away.
I have not re watched the most recent series yet and so don’t have any favourites thus far.
Some of the scarier episodes like Blink, Listen and the Empty Library/Forest of the Dead, are also for me at least, some of the most heartwarming. That is due to Moffat’s brilliance as a script writer, deftly blending fear with humour and warmth. the “humanity” of the characters and the values of the Doctor shine through. That quality is amplified in the Christmas Specials. And of course there is Day of the Doctor which probably should be top of the list as it exemplifies all those qualities.
As I said, it is a long list. I should also often watch Old Who when I need cheering up, usually a Tom Baker, Pyramids of Mars, Invasion of Time or City of Death would probably top the list. While not strictly Dr Who An Adventure in Space and Time and the Five-ish Doctors are also worth an honourary mention on this list.
And now I feel like watching all of those just mentioned, right now.
Janette29 March 2021 at 09:52 #71505
@janetteb You forgot Last Christmas! The best ‘happy’ of them all, in my opinion. Where else could you have a sarcastic Father Christmas and sarcastic elves drawing attention to the unlikeliness of their own existence – and all strictly explained in sci-fi (and not magic or fantasy) terms? (You could in Pratchett’s Discworld, but that functioned explicitly under the influence of a pervasive magical field so it doesn’t count). But quite aside from that, it was hilarious.
Anyway, that’s my number one. I do like Twice Upon a Time, I don’t know why you didn’t think it was ‘happy’. The Doctor gets to see Bill again, Testimony restores his memories of Clara. And Testimony turns out to be benign – “It isn’t an evil plan. I don’t know what to do when it isn’t an evil plan.” Priceless.
A Christmas Carol was much sadder. Lovely, but very sad. I did like that Kazran hadn’t frozen Abigail out of spite, but because he didn’t want to lose her. But many of the Christmas specials weren’t ‘happy’ ones. Voyage of the Damned – which I quite liked – okay, Mr Copper was lucky, but Astrid died.
You also forgot The End of Time (two-parter) with the Master and the Time Lords. That was a cracker. Timothy Dalton as Lord President was formidable. But also not a ‘happy’ episode.
And The Time of the Doctor wasn’t a ‘happy’ episode either. Actually a good episode, sad in parts (where the Doctor was growing old). Actually I always mix it up with The Name of the Doctor, both very good episodes but they get overshadowed by the dazzling Day of the Doctor sandwiched in between them.
I love Blink and Listen of course, even though they’re both scary. Which just shows that my favourite episodes aren’t always the ones that relax me. I like a good comedy, or a good tragedy. You’re absolutely right about Moffat’s ability to mix scary with humour. (Why I used to like Xena – the writers – sometimes – could come up with marvellously ironical black humour).
And I see you just gave top billing to Day of the Doctor. Right on! (Technically not a Christmas special but I never attach much importance to the date of screening – since I never saw them on TV, but on DVD, my chronology is a bit different from many fans.)
Makes me want to go and watch some of those right now, too. Think I’ll restart with Eleventh Hour, I like to try and keep in sequence, I might omit a couple of eps that don’t do much for me (but that’s surprisingly few). That’ll keep me busy for the next few months…29 March 2021 at 13:43 #71507
@dentarthurdent You are right, I forgot Last Christmas which is one of the best of the favourites. (currently hanging my head in shame.)
I think Twice Upon a Time is sad because it is the last Capaldi episode and because it shows the trenches that wonderful night. I love the story of the Christmas Truce but it saddens me too because it did not last and so many died or were permanently maimed as a result so the episode touches too much on reality for the “feel good” effect but it is sad and beautiful and so good to see Bill again, not to mention Rusty and Clara.
Time of the Doctor is also sad and beautiful. I love the scene where the Doctor and Clara watch the sunrise. To me though it does not feel overly “christmassy”.
I disliked the End of Time two parter when I last watched it many years ago and have not watched it since. Maybe now in a happier frame of mind I should try it again.
Janette30 March 2021 at 03:54 #71508
@janetteb Great happy list! Gridlock has cat people and singing and all those wonderfully different people living in their vehicles. The Lodger is a fun fish out of water tale with a great cast. I like all your choices and I am going to watch some of them tomorrow while I paint. I also save the Xmas episodes to watch leading up to the day.It is my Who Xmas tradition.
One of my favourite Who binges is to watch all of the first episodes for the Doctors , starting with Rose. It is a great thing to do on a rainy or snowy day.30 March 2021 at 07:03 #71510
@janetteb A number of Christmas eps aren’t very Christmassy (not that I care because I never watch eps on their TV release date). The End of Time is one of those. But quite a powerful ep. A good voice-over always adds weight, especially when it’s voiced by someone like Timothy Dalton. Some people just have voices that ring with authority. I quite liked the John Sim version of the Master in this one, now that he was vulnerable and not the main enemy; and I liked Lucy’s revenge. And the Vinvocci (did anyone recognise Sinead Keenan as the werewolf from Being Human?) were great comedy. It’s hard to look exasperated when you’re green and covered in spikes but she managed it. I did have a credibility failure when the Doctor crashed straight through the glass dome and survived. Much liked the firefight between the Master and Rassilon. Wilf getting himself stuck in the control room was annoying and a bit of a downer since it killed the Doctor. It also seemed rather contrived.
Speaking of Specials, other than Christmas, the previous one, Planet of the Dead, was good. The horde of metallic scavengers was frightening. The fly creatures were surprisingly sympathetic, pity they got killed off. And Christina (Michelle Ryan) was a great intrepid character, I was convinced she was going to become a companion. And she might have done, if Ten wasn’t reaching his use-by date. I think there could have been some good clashes between her and the Doctor. Or maybe she might have been a recurring character like River Song.
@winston As it happens, I’ve restarted watching with Matt Smith and Amy’s first ep, The Eleventh Hour (yes the very next ep after The End of Time). Although I wasn’t alone in the house last night, I still half-closed my eyes for the jump-scare when the hideous Prisoner Zero appears behind Amy. This time round I could follow the sequence of the Doctor’s appearances to Amelia Pond rather better. And I’ve grown more used to Matt Smith, first time round I found his youthful food faddery quite annoying after the far more serious Tennant. Not sure if I’ll carry on with The Beast Below or skip it, I might take it in for the sight of Sophie Okonedo as Liz 10.1 April 2021 at 11:31 #71512
Well, I just watched The Beast Below (carrying on from The Eleventh Hour). Almost didn’t bother, but I did because it had Sophie Okonedo in it. And – it was very good indeed. There was a lot more in it than I remembered. The dialogue between the Doctor and Amy was engaging. The little girl (Mandy) was a very appealing character. The plot point about voters choosing ‘Protest’ or ‘Forget’ was well worked out. Sophie Okonedo as Liz 10 was magnificent, I would have loved to see her as the 13th Doctor for example. When she said “*I* am the highest authority”, that was convincingly regal. And the plot twist that she herself had perpetuated the regime she was now investigating (and had chosen to Forget) was brilliant. The Star Whale was a rather absurd concept, but I could easily overlook that because, as always, it was the character interactions that made the story.1 April 2021 at 13:26 #71513
@dentarthurdent Agree Sophie Okonedo is fantastic as Liz 10 and would have been a great Doctor. The star whale is hard to swallow as a concept but there are a lot of good elements in the episode.
We have just rewatched Robot, Tom Baker’s first story and it was fun. I did not realise that he very first line is “Sontarans interfering in the course of human history”. (as repeated in Listen) Moffat really did his homework when writing scripts. We often find something in the older stories that Moffat has referenced.
Janette1 April 2021 at 22:47 #71516
hey everyone 🙂1 April 2021 at 22:59 #71519
hey everyone 🙂 the discussions on this topic is really interesting ‘which eps calm us’ though if I think too hard about the question I get jumbled with what calms us and what we find fun and safe
For example Gridlock is my all time fav but I wouldn’t say its calming for a big chunk of it and more now as I am older I sometimes cry when I watch the ep as the emotions hit really hard which I think I mentioned in reviews/discussions of the ep before but I still find it comforting in a way especially when everyone is freed 🙂
Unicorn and The Wasp which I saw recently (as I mentioned) has always been an ep which hasn’t slipped my mind , I had a better way to put that but ironically I forgot lol and I think about the Wasp a lot and there are new comforts for me like Orphan 55 and pretty much the whole second half of Series 10 starting from Oxygen (not including the final cause I haven’t watched them yet)
So what would I enjoy watching without any fear or sadness even though those elements can be in great eps I love or boost the ep but if I want calming I think I should avoid them even if it removes a lot of eps I would happy watch like New Earth and a lot of Series 4 (which kinda highlights the power of Series 4 to scare and make you toil over something like Shadows) expect for Gridlock cause its my fav and I love the thrill of it and the sadness in a way plus dozens of other reasons 🙂
Shakespeare Code – Really fun, interesting, I love that Shakespeare is soo smart he sees through the physic paper 🙂 , love the Doctor’s utmost respect and love for Shakespeare singing all his praises even after he learns how fowl mouth he can be haha 🙂 the ending where they had to put the right words together was great 🙂 love the smoke and red lightning that spins and flashes around The Globe Theater, lots of cool things and humor in the ep 🙂
Gridlock of course 🙂
42 – I like it a lot more since recently watching it and its fun 🙂
Unicorn and the Wasp – Really fun, interesting, clever lots of humor and a good mystery 🙂1 April 2021 at 23:01 #71520
hey everyone , sorry about the message before the one that talks about eps , I have a lot more but it wouldn’t send so I was testing to see if I could send anything which worked so I will send what I said in a couple chunks
Regards – Declan Sargent4 April 2021 at 02:53 #71529
It’s so difficult when there are so many to choose from, but no one (I think?)has mentioned THE CARETAKER.
Not, I agree, one of the most brilliant episodes, but one where the Doctor and Clara finally fit together and some of the
dialogue among the funniest. Although the episode is co-written, I put the humour down to Mr. Moffat.
Here is an example, which actually had me in tears I laughed so much.
(Clara enters from her living room.)
CLARA: So, where we off to?
DOCTOR: Clara, you, you look lovely today. Have you had a wash?
CLARA: Why are you being nice?
DOCTOR: Because it works on you. Listen, I’m sorry but there’s going to be no trip today. I’m sorry. Er, I’ve got to do a thing. It might take a while.
CLARA: What thing?
(He keeps the scanner with the flashing red light out of her view.)
DOCTOR: Just a thing.
CLARA: You’re being mysterious, and do you know what means?
DOCTOR: I’m a man of mystery.
CLARA: Hmm. It means that you are a very clever man making the mistake, common to very clever people, of assuming that everybody else is stupid. Where are you going?
(She grabs the scanner and he switches it to the view of the galaxy.)
DOCTOR: Undercover. Deep cover.
CLARA: Can you do deep cover?
DOCTOR: What do you mean?
CLARA: Have you seen you?
DOCTOR: Of course I can do deep cover.
CLARA: (giggling) Where, the Magic Circle?
(The Doctor snaps his fingers, and the Tardis doors open.)
DOCTOR: I’ll see you when I see you.
(Clara snaps her fingers, and they close again.)
CLARA: When’s that?
DOCTOR: When I see you.
CLARA: Hmm. Hmm. I’ll be sure to have a wash.
DOCTOR: Excellent. I was meaning to bring it up.
(Clara leaves, shutting the doors then opening them again and pointing meaningfully at her eye before finally leaving. The Doctor calls up the glowing area on the map which is on the scanner – East London.)
Missy5 April 2021 at 18:20 #71530guy @sparkycherr
I’m doing a cancer research run in honour of 10 weeks since Elisabeth Sladen passed away in 2 weeks. please donate or share if you can 🙂 https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/sparkycherry?utm_source=Sharethis&utm_medium=fundraising&utm_content=sparkycherry&utm_campaign=pfp-email&utm_term=04e52d62fae14c59997e470d88129c37.6 April 2021 at 02:32 #71535
@missy A very funny scene from a great episode. I like the Doctor making assumptions about Clara’s boyfriend because he looks a little like his previous self. The Doctor is wonderfully crusty in this episode, just the way I like him
Stay safe.6 April 2021 at 12:06 #71537
@missy and @winston Yes another episode like Robots of Sherwood, where the camaraderie and general character interaction makes up for massive plot holes. The Caretaker is another of those that I watch when I need cheering up and most definitely should have been in my list. Sometimes it is episodes like these that work best because the “monster” is not what the story is about. (But then the boys tell me I am way too forgiving when it comes to Dr Who though I am super critical of almost anything else, but few other shows warm my heart in the way Dr Who does.)
Janette6 April 2021 at 15:15 #71539
The Caretaker. If that’s what the Doctor calls ‘undercover’ – Worst. Disguise. Ever.
I seem to recall that Danny and the Doctor weren’t too impressed with each other (to put it mildly). And this was where Clara’s efforts to lead a normal life and indulge in adventures with the Doctor came unstuck. In fact I wasn’t too impressed with Danny. He seemed too controlling. But this was probably because I regarded Clara’s arrangements with the Doctor as normal (for a companion), how did the newcomer Danny have any business dictating to Clara how she lived her life? Of course I was biassed.
As for Courtney – no. Just no. Impossible brat.
It got worse with Kill The Moon (though the clash between Clara and the Doctor at the end was impressive). But that had plot holes and physical impossibilities that made anything in The Caretaker or Robot of Sherwood look like pinpricks. Got a lot better with Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatline – those are two I would go to for ‘feel-good’ episodes. I loved the mini-Tardis in Flatline.7 April 2021 at 13:51 #71542
So I just watched Victory of the Daleks, because it was next in sequence.
Churchill was not particularly good, though not atrociously bad either. A bit too fat and the accent not quite right.
Stukas over London? I didn’t think they had the range. But Googling shows the occasional one did drop a bomb on London, though not a dozen of them in daylight. So we can count that as semi-accurate.
Curious that Amy doesn’t remember the Daleks – a first hint that her world is not the same one.
There is a HUGE continuity problem with the Spitfires in space. It would take weeks to fit the antigrav units, develop a pressurised cockpit (so the pilots could exist), and make three aircraft. It would take many hours (even with antigrav) for them to take off and reach the Dalek mothership. In the episode it takes 5 minutes.
One Dalek could shoot down a dozen Stukas – howcome the Dalek mothership couldn’t get three Spitfires? And how much damage would a pair of 20mm Hispano cannon do to a Dalek mothership? What were the Spitfire engines running on? How did they manouvre with no air?
Why do I get the urge to nitpick this? Because WW2 aircraft are among my interests, I guess. The more you know about a topic, the less likely to be able to accept inaccuracies around it. But I think that continuity gap over the time for the Spitfires to reach the mothership would bother me even if I cared nothing about aircraft.
Never mind, Time of Angels next.8 April 2021 at 02:36 #71544
@janetteb I forgive Doctor Who almost everything. I don’t care if it is sappy, hokey or silly or has plot holes the size of a crater. I have no explanation or excuse for my uncritical love of the Doctor. My kids also tease me as does hubby but I do not care, I am a Whovian through and through. I am OK with my inner nerd and have let her loose over this long isolation. It is either that or jigsaw puzzles.
Stay safe.8 April 2021 at 07:22 #71545
Nothing wrong with jigsaw puzzles. 🙂 There’s something very satisfying about completing a good 1500 piece puzzle. Mind you, I do ‘cheat’ by making sure the puzzle I choose has plenty of detail and no big areas of low-contrast visually ‘samey’ extent. Then I make little piles of e.g. sky, sea, building, etc, and I usually do the edges first. I suspect that’s how the Doctor would do it (unless of course he wrote a computer program to exactly match the shapes of the edges of the pieces).
Has the Doctor or anyone else in Who ever done a jigsaw puzzle?
Anyway, plot holes (and physical impossibilities). I’ll allow pretty big ones for an episode I like. I’ll happily accept time travel, anti-gravity and teleports (because it’s sci-fi). But things like the golden arrow in Robot of Sherwood bother me because an arrow is a common everyday item with no supernatural properties, and the Doctor didn’t ‘magick’ it. The more ‘current technology’ a thing is, the more it bothers me when it does something physically impossible *unless there’s alien tech involved*.
Kill The Moon went well over the physical-impossibility border in so many ways, it was as if it was trying to stretch my credulity. Victory of the Daleks has this huge time jump in the middle (unless I missed something) where the antigrav-equipped Spitfires suddenly appear. I can accept the antigrav and gloss over how the pilots could breathe, and even their chances of destroying the mothership with 20mm Hispano cannon, but the time element baffles me. If the Doctor had managed to time-lock the Dalek mothership for a couple of months I would not have been so puzzled.
I think I’m revealing my inner nerd 🙂16 April 2021 at 00:00 #71579
@missy I enjoyed those early entries in the Stephen King oeuvre, too!
I can read horror fiction before bed. Obviously I’ve been doing it since my return to Stephen King. But there are times when I read something so unsettling that I find it difficult, if not impossible, to fall asleep. Usually it’s something that takes me unawares. When I’m reading Stephen King, I have a pretty good idea of what I’m in for! But if I’m reading something that I think is going one direction, and then it unexpectedly diverts into unpleasant territory, then I have a harder time processing it. And, since my usual reading time is before bed, that’s when I’m processing it.
@winston Dear Lord, Night of the Living Dead terrified me … as an adult! I can’t imagine what it would have done to me as a child. (Well, yeah, I can. Because of all the other movies that kept me awake as a child!) I don’t envy you having to deal with that in your youth. And you are so right about the Weeping Angels having a similar impact!
I so agree with you about the emotional resonance of “Everybody lives!” I think that’s when I fell in love with Doctor Who. It seemed to be heading to a very dark place, ending-wise. But then the Doctor’s jubilance at being able to save everyone, just this once, was so endearing and uplifting. One of my all-time favorites!
@dentarthurdent “Last Christmas” is another favorite. It, too, seemed headed in a rather dark direction, but swerved at the very end. I was fine with that, bad makeup job and all!16 April 2021 at 05:08 #71580
@dentarthurdent Victory of the Daleks is not an episode I have ever re watched. It only had one thing to recommend it, the Dalek in Camos. I loathe “Kill the Moon” for many reasons not just the sheer absurdity of the concept, which lost viewers unsurprisingly, but also the proposal that the earth should be sacrificed to save the moon creature. Kill all life on earth to save one life in space. How can that be justified? Not just sentient life but all life. As moral arguments go that was as much a fail as the science was. Also disliked the argument between the Doctor and Clara. So if I was giving these two a score “Victory” would get two out of ten for the camo dalek but Kill the Moon would be a zero.
@nerys I think I saw Night of the Living Dead when at Uni but I don’t remember much about it. I probably fell asleep as soon as the lights went down in the theatre. Our films studies lecturer was a big fan of all those movies. Me not so at all.
Janette16 April 2021 at 10:23 #71581
@janetteb Kill the Moon probably started as a high-concept musing – ‘what if the Moon were an egg?’. Unfortunately, while many such postulates result in extraordinary episodes, sometimes the practical difficulties are insurmountable. But in KTM they just blandly ignored them all, a list a mile long. I think every practical detail was wrong. For just the first example, landing a space shuttle – which is a big (and very poor) glider, on the Moon – gliders need air. But even the non-techy bits were wrong – how could Clara ‘consult the people of earth’ by having them turn their lights off – how long would that take to organise? If the risk to Earth was from chunks of Moon, released by the creature, hitting Earth, then what happens if you blow the Moon to pieces? (Actually orbits don’t work like that, generally). Also, I doubt a dozen nukes would even scratch it. Why would the Moon ‘putting on weight’ cause massive disruption on Earth? ‘High tide everywhere at once’ – how? Where would the extra water come from? And if it was an egg, why would it put on weight – eggs don’t. And how would it, it’s not eating. And if just ‘putting on weight’ caused massive disruption, what about the gravitational effect of the creature flying off and another Moon popping into existence, the gravitational variations from that would surely be spectacular. Also disastrous. Nothing about the story works!
I do like the situation that they have to consider detonating the bombs and killing themselves to save Earth – that’s a weighty situation. Could be good in some other episode.
And Clara’s decision was (as you note) absolutely wrong, but portrayed as right. The only thing I did like was the argument with the Doctor, Clara was quite justified in being incandescent with rage at the situation the Doctor left her in. It was also absolutely out of character for the Doctor. (And I can’t help but note the difference with the 13th Doctor, who scolds other people for killing things and then does exactly the same herself in the same scene *and nobody ever calls her out on it*, which is intensely annoying).
Yes I’d much rather the Doctor and companion got along, but if they’re going to clash then it should be a good one.
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