Forum Replies Created
8 January 2014 at 20:43 #24083
Hey Everyone! I’ve only just got round to watching the episode since I was away at Christmas. As usual myself and my friend Richard have done a video review and since I made a silly bet in the last video that I would eat my Fez if John Hurt did not regenerate into Capaldi – here it is…25 December 2013 at 23:51 #23384
It was meh! I really loved it to start with. The stuff about gallifrey and when it finally seemed to be coming back to the question that will be asked was great. The way they kept wrapping up all the loose ends was good, the Silence, the crack etc. However it very slowly started to feel like they were cramming all the answers in at last minute and in the end all that stuff was just there because this was the last chance they could fit it in. I can imagine Moffatt at the keyboard with a checklist of things he needs to resolve so was making things up to fill in the cracks like a bad pollyfiller job. Also most of the episode we had to watch Matt Smith with dodgy old man makeup shambling around, this should have been his last chance to be the crazy energetic doctor we all love and they had him sat around for most of it. And come on, the timelords gave him extra juice through the crack and somehow got them out of that situation – thats just lazy writing! So now he just has extra regenerations? Hopefully Capaldi’s confusion at the end will pay off, maybe what the timelords did has side effects?
Anyway I need another watch because Im dwelling on what I didn’t like instead of the stuff I did which Ill cover in my video review next week. Either way it looks like im going to be eating my fez on camera as promised in my predictions video : http://youtu.be/-nuEzLF9cM410 December 2013 at 23:52 #22607
@timeloop I had no idea the River Arc was disliked I loved it. Was that why they seemed to close her storyline off so soon? I might be wrong but I seem to remember it just fizzling out and their entire love affair was condensed across a few scenes by the end. Did he ever give her that old screwdriver and notebook? It was fun trying to figure out in my head where both characters were in their respective timelines at the same time as she got out her notebook. Im just starting a rewatch of that series starting with Impossible Astronaut so hopefully that will answer my questions. Lets Kill Hitler was a fun romp and opened with a bang. I didnt like Cold War either but I loved the idea that the Ice Warrior was a scary alien in a big suit. I actually got a bit annoyed when I saw the trailer for that episode because I directed a short film that was all to similar (here if you want to see it). I prefer my doctor who dark and creepy, slimy monsters and the like. I loved the Empress of the Racnoss as a monster for example because it was so big and imposing and really felt like a physical threat.
@scaryb Been trying to make my way through the comments before I joined the conversation and there is so much to take in! Haha I like your spin on my Apples analogy. It’s true though that It has changed since each of the new series has been so different. Watching Eccleston’s episodes compared to Tennant’s later ones there is a vast difference in tone and style and even Moffat’s run with Smith has evolved as we’ve progressed. I was weary of Smith’s first series but it has grown on me. The second series with the River Song Arc was a great big adventure with a fun story arc that was building towards the Doctor’s apparent death and kept me guessing. The third series in concept was amazing and was advertised like each week we were going to see a big sci-fi adventure film but it felt like a bit of a mixed bag really, although there were some great episodes in there.
Can’t wait to see what the Capaldi era will bring. Its a chance to change things up again completely and the prospect of a search for Galifrey story arc sounds great!10 December 2013 at 20:10 #22586
@scaryb you raise some really good points there. I just watched Night of the Doctor again since my first viewing was on my phone at work (dont tell anyone!) and I like the tragedy that he is about to whisk Cas away in his big blue box only for her to fear him and rather die than run off with him.
I really like a lot of the discussion going on in this foRum. People are rasing points and bringing things up about the episode I totally missed the first time and I think i was still stinging from dissapointment after my second viewing only a few hours after the first. I think I will have to go back and watch it again to see if my opinion has changed.10 December 2013 at 19:07 #22580
@martyb Yes it was fantastic that Billie Piper was the moment, I did not see that coming an expected 10 to show up with rose during their first series together. Bit of a pity that Tennant did not get to interact with her but at least we got that little moment where he heard “Bad Wolf”
I must say that my first real introduction to Doctor Who was the Paul McGann TV Movie and then I obviously watched from Eccleston onwards so I don’t really have too much knowledge of the timelords other than what we have seen since then. I loved their depiction in the end of time as scenery chewing baddies (well Timothy Dalton anyway) so it was quite jarring to suddenly see them different in Day of the Doctor. On that note I loved the reference to the events of that episode in Day of the Doctor when we first see the Timelord command centre they mention that the council has another plan. I like to imagine that Rassilon’s plan to pull Galifrey out of the time lock was happening concurrently with that last battle.
I understand what you are saying – “thats what doctor who is”, but its not what it used to be. It’s like looking at a bruised apple and saying “thats what apples are”. Weve tasted apples before and they were quite tasty and didn’t have those awful brown spongy marks so why can’t we have those apples again. Strange comparison I know but look at Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon – a two parter which when put together come to about the same length as Day of the Doctor. Yet the writing is so much stronger and it delivers a clever and exciting story with twists and turns. We get the great Silence plot and the way it ties up with the Doctor’s clever plan to broadcast a command to kill them on sight was inspired writing and very satisfying. Compare that to the plan to make Galifrey disappear so that Daleks shoot themselves by accident – the equivalent to someone making a timely duck when two enemies at perfectly opposite sites shoot at you in the centre.
Now obviously the story that Moffat had to get across in Day of the Doctor was entirely different but at the same time it did not excite me in the same way that many other episodes had in the past. Doctor Who has and can be better than it is right now and fingers crossed we will be back to shiny apples next series. I have so much respect for Stephen Moffat and what he has done with his Who tenure as it is an impossible undertaking to keep everybody happy. There have been so many strong episodes in his few series and the River Song storyline was mind bogglingly wonderful and yet tragic to watch. I can’t wait to see what he cooks up for ‘The Search for Galifrey’ story arc!10 December 2013 at 13:28 #2255310 December 2013 at 13:24 #22551
As much as I love big blockbusters like the Hobbit and I was very entertained by Pacific Rim, I’m a big supporter of independent British Films. There is so much more than just football and east end gangster films out there that seem to get a lot of the mainstream attention. Myself and my friend Paul have started a little youtube review show called ‘Best of British’ trying to dig up films that most people may have missed. The first film we watched was ‘The Hide’, a contained thriller with just two characters which ended up being the best film ive watched all year!10 December 2013 at 13:15 #22550
@wolfweed I love the top one of lissabt’s work with river song’s timeline. I would hang that on my wall!10 December 2013 at 13:12 #22548
@craig haha I might put that bet out in the pre-show predictions part of our Xmas Special video review and promise to eat my fez on camera if I am wrong. That could be fun.10 December 2013 at 13:06 #22546
Following on from that I’m thinking about something along these lines for the Xmas Special:
Matt Smith dies and Clara and his companions are all sad, they expect him to regenerate but nothing happens, its all very sad. Then a voice off-screen says: “It was his 13th regeneration, a timelords final life. This is the day the doctor dies. But its also the day the doctor is reborn”. The figure steps out of the darkness and it’s Capaldi! Cut to black. Then we have to wait until August to find out what the frick happened where he explains that he regenerated from Hurt – they will cut to a flashback of Hurt’s regeneration scene from Day of the Doctor and now we see the extended version. He will start to regenerate into Eccleston when the yellow energy that surrounds him flashes a different colour, he cringes in pain as his face violently morphs into Capaldi instead – a new 10 formed due to the changes in the timeline. And to avoid angering the fans and undoing everything from Eccleston’s adventures to Smith’s he will somehow gain the memories and experiences of those doctors.
Having watched Moffat’s style of storytelling over the past few series I wouldnt put something as crazy as that past him. Either that or Smith will regen into Capaldi who is in his final life and he must find the lost timelords and galifrey (by the end of his series) before he dies permanently.10 December 2013 at 12:54 #22544
@craig I’m still not convinced. If they already had an existing shot to transform into then why not do it? It cuts before we can clearly make out any of Eccleston’s features. They may have used that shot as a template but they must have cut it early for good reason since they have all the rights to use his face….hmmmm. With everything that happens between shooting and the end of post-production perhaps they had planned to morph him into Eccleston before Moffat decided he wanted him to regen into Capaldi instead or even just to keep the fans guessing? Its working! My money is still down on Capaldi!10 December 2013 at 12:18 #22539
@bluesqueakpip I’m absolutely positive that Hurt regenerates into Capaldi! I’ll put money on it! 10 Doctor mk2!10 December 2013 at 12:11 #22538
@purofilion I dont agree about it being ok that they only showed a little of the war. Sure they talk about it a lot but the point we tried to make in our video review was that it does not feel that the stakes are high enough to warrant even using The Moment in the first place. If we had seen the Time Lords wipe out a civilisation just to stop the Daleks, if we are shown that they are willing to go to such dire lengths just to stop them then maybe the Doctor would think “right, now i really have to put a stop to both sides”. But we dont see that. Why are the time lords so bad? Tennant says they are bad in The End of Time and we certainly see that Rassilon has an evil plan that will destroy Earth but in the Day of the Doctor they seem like the good guys fighting against an unstoppable force. Even in the Night of the Doctor prequel with Eight the woman Cas seems scared of the Timelords. Why? What have we seen that shows that they should be feared.
While im taking about the Night of the Doctor, that minisode was pretty much Moffat’s chance to set up why Eight became The War Doctor. Why would a man whose role it is to protect the universe suddenly decide to drink a potion and decide to become a ‘Warrior’? Sure, Cas the woman he failed to save died but does one human’s death drive him to change his entire morality? If the minisode had seen the Doctor give his all in stopping the Daleks from exterminating a peaceful planet, saving them and having his hero moment only to see the Timelords swoop in and destroy the planet in a barrage of fire to kill a single Daek left alive on the surface then that would have given him the emotional drive to change into the War Doctor. That would have been effective and powerful. We would have also seen that the Timelords are just as bad as the Daleks, giving resonance to Cas’ fear of the Doctor.
Also, John Hurt’s war doctor was built up to be such a terrifying figure from the Doctor’s past but when we see him in the Day of the Doctor he does not do anything remotely warrior like. If he had grabbed that soldier’s gun and blasted the hell out of a Dalek squad then it would have got the point across. Instead he stands in the middle of a battlefield and shoots words into a wall to give everyone a message. We know the Doctor hates guns and would never use outright violence against a foe so what better way to show this Doctor is different that to have him blast the Daleks with a big gun!
I watched the episode again recently and although I enjoyed it more it still really stands out that using the moment is unnecessary. Sure, if they dont use it the Daleks will probably destroy Galifrey but its almost the mentality that if we can’t win then we will blow ourselves up to stop them. Again it all goes back to that fact that we don’t see the effect of the war on anyone but the time lords and Daleks so why should we care? It’s just like Star Wars the Phantom Menace – Queen Amidala talks about how her people are dying, they say people are being taken to camps and are starving but whenever we see the planet its so green and lush and shiny. Where are the starving people, where is the damage. Show don’t tell. It’s hard to invest in something if we cannot see it!
Anyway the episode still had its good points but it all comes back to what myself and Richard (my co-reviewer in the video) keep saying after every episode. The writing can be much better! I used to eagerly await each new episode of Who but not i dont get my hopes up because im almost always dissapointed. I really wish I loved the Day of the Doctor and was writing fanatically about how amazing it was but it pains me to say that im falling out of love with Who. Theres a great aricle on io9 about falling out of love with fandom, partiularly when you grew to love something as an adult http://io9.com/what-to-do-when-you-fall-out-of-fandom-1472607281.
In the end though this is just my opinion. I’m glad so many people loved the episode, in fact I envy you. I want to go back to the days when I was left with a sense of fulfillment after watching Who and hopefully that day will come again. I think The Impossible Astronaut/The Doctor’s wife were the last ones I remember watching with a big happy grin on my face.
Stewart (gctv)5 December 2013 at 17:48 #22281
Hey guys im new here so hello! Felt so strongly about the episode and actually recorded a video review with a friend to let out or feelings which id love you to watch (http://youtu.be/fR5yp9UGLmg) but if not here are my thoughts…
• Good set up for the next season’s arc. The search for galifrey like a big adventure for lost treasure, should be fun?
• So why is Tom baker the curator of the museum? I know its really just a bit of fan service to have him show up but he talks about retiring to become the museums curator but obviously he regenerated when he was quite young? But he also hints that he knows about Matt Smith’s future and that he will be revisiting a few of his old faces again. Does that mean that he will end up as Tom Baker again one day? Im confused or just stupid.
• Either way the teaser for the Christmas special looks good. The silence are back, the best villan since the weeping angles. Very underused since their first great appearance. I was worried we wouldn’t get to see the trensalore stuff after last series finale but it’s a relief to see it back.
• Also I have a crazy theory that because they did some wibbly wobbly stuff with the timeline that John Hurt will actually regenerate into Peter Capaldi. Mainly because we didn’t see him turn into eccleston even when it cut to a close up of his regeneration. They could have easily morphed his face into an existing shot of eccleston if they wanted (we know he didn’t come back but it could have been done). I think the doctor will die at Trenzalore permanently since we have the dead tardis there and all. Capaldi will be an alternate 9 essentially following John Hurt.
• Finally the episode really sums up Moffats era of Who so far. Setting up big impossible things that sound great in concept but when we get to the resolution it never really turns out as fantastic as we expected. The impossible astronaut death, the name of the doctor. All of these questions were answered without really being answered and really it’s the journey that is the fun part, not the destination. However, at least with Russel t davis who we got very clear answers to the questions that were set up in the first or so episode of his seasons – arks like bad wolf and torchwood paid off whthout leaving people puzzled. Lets see if the Christmas special answers all the outstanding questions.