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29 April 2013 at 02:29 #7115
Aaaaand another inconsistency this episode raises: How could the Eye of Harmony – an inherently non renewable power source, actually inside and powering the Tardis – possibly square with the Tardis being completely drained of power in Rise of the Cybermen (and gradually recharging, sparked off by the Doctor) and indeed with it needing to be recharged by the Rift in Cardiff in BoomTown?
Neither of these is consistent with a super-massive black hole trapped in stasis providing power…
29 April 2013 at 02:24 #7114@shazzbot – ah, wise words. The Tardis being pretty much an dumb machine (one of many, and a not very good example of its kind – it was scheduled for deactivation when the Doc stole it) from Edge of Destruction through to TDW has kind of stopped me from sharing your perspective. Its clearly not now quite the same entity it was in the classic series (Maybe its been fitted for battle?)
Anyway yeah the doctor looks like he’s somewhat afraid of her capriciousness and tantrums (not a feature before – if anything, he was simply baffled by her)
So, OK, I can go with the idea that she could make anything – but won’t
I think you might be on to something with the Tardis being given centre stage… The initial phase of the Cartmel Masterplan – especially Silver Nemesis – seemed to suggest that the Doctor had some kind of overall plan or mission (making the universe safe enough for SN to be given her freedom, perhaps?). However, maybe Moffatts update is that it is the Tardis that is the one with secrets and a hidden mission, and the doctor is a pawn in her game?
Skirts that bit close to Tardis being God and the Doctor being Sam Beckett though (TDW, with “I took you where you needed to be” is already dangerously close)…
29 April 2013 at 00:27 #7109Aaaaaaand another thing: ArchRecon can “build any machine”. Now, a good % of who stories are resolved by the Doctor building some contraption; he needed a big gun in Dalek, In Parting of the Ways he sets about building a Delta Wave generator – just 2 examples from a single nu who series.
So, why would he do any of that if he can just pop into the tardis, dial something up and have a cuppa while the Tardis bakes it up for him. Whole bunch of previous stories trashed, and that before we even start on Classic who: how could the Time Lords banish him to earth if he could just cook up his own dematerialization circuit in ArchRecon? How could the chameleon circuit ever be broken and never fixed? I could go on for hours!
My only conclusion is that he was exaggerating the capability of ArchRecon and in fact its limited to just manufacturing Tardis decor/parts (but that still doesn’t explain unfixed dematerialization and chameleon circuits). But how could that make sense, since telling a porky immediately lead the salvager’s to start vandalising the “eggs” (the very last thing the Doc wanted, you would assume)?
28 April 2013 at 23:47 #7106@whohar @scaryb – I know I keep moaning when they tinker with continuity (e.g. eye of harmony) but an infinite tardis also really bugs me; much of the premise of the first 2 eps of Castrovalva hinge on the tardis having finite mass (and thus being able to convert 25% of mass of the Tardis into energy to escape Event One). If the tardis has infinite mass, that’s trashed. And to what end?
Even if the tardis encompasses Gallifrey, every Bowship and every dalek cruiser in it’s hold, it doesn’t need to be infinite, just very big. And what would be the point of an infinite space? You could’t use all of it, or even visit all of it in all the 13.5Bn years the universe has existed.
Not to mention that you’d need an infinite mass means you’d need an infinite amount of energy to shift it, so you’ve also trashed the premise that the Eye could even power it, making the story not even internally consistent.
Ir.ri.ta.ted.
This is what happens when you let literature graduates write Sci-Fi. There should be a requirement for peer review!!!!!
If he simply meant “as big as ever needs to be” that’s what he should say!
28 April 2013 at 16:53 #7052@wolfweed – the papal mainframe, a combination of 2 ideas: an obsolete, inflexible command and control structure serving as a centralised seat of absolute, infalliable power, without checks and balances and frequently a source of corruption. And a Pope.
Nothing like a weak IT joke to while away a Sunday afternoon…
28 April 2013 at 16:42 #7048@phileasf – I think moffatt has be nursing this gameplan for 20 odd years, and has refined it with RTD; it’s inevitable that there are roots right back in Rose (even if not, they can make callbacks that seem that way)
Agree that both the way she read the page and “in that tiny…” refer to an illustration. But it can’t be a picture of the doc, he had another face during the time war… So how did she know it was him? Best guess – an illustration which featured the tardis, perhaps?
28 April 2013 at 12:27 #7031@miapatrick – oh I like that; doctor: “you didn’t go looking for my name? But I told you not to so that I knew you definitely would! You humans alway ignore what I tell you to do! Oh gawd – what am I going to do now??!!!!”
28 April 2013 at 11:49 #7027@scaryb – I likes! I agree that there’s hints that he doc not only inspired the GI but also created it (I suggested a matrix tie-in but yours is better as it sticks within the scope of nu who)
You could sort of say the GI collects uploads to meet its needs in the same way the doc acquires companions to meet his (unconscious need to not go postal on the entire universe), like it was a residual trait.
Maybe his great mistake was not to meld with it in web of fear, which would have reintegrated the two split minds …?
28 April 2013 at 11:36 #7025@ardaraith – yes! The only character I know of who was fragmented is Scaroth the Jaggaroth in City of Death who was fragmented in time when his ship (not a time ship) exploded taking off at warp 3. So there’s precedent that exploding craft is the only known way to fragment a character, so far.
Alternatively, there’s princess astra of atrios who rather than a person who fragmented, was a fragment of a thing (the key to time – a big crystal with timely wimey powers) which was disguised as a person (and unaware of what she was)
28 April 2013 at 10:44 #7017@whisht – good find, interesting that the drawings for both the remote AND the archRecon “tree fruit” both explicitly call them “eggs”.
28 April 2013 at 10:33 #7015@scaryb – agreed that one the doc. I don’t think it’s a mannerism, so much as the hand is actually fused to his face (just as the brothers are fused together).
Possibly this explains at least his zombies antagonism – his last addled thought is to protect his name in the book?
28 April 2013 at 10:18 #7012@scaryb @badwolf99 – you are 100% correct, it’s the big button on the remote. I’ve not woken up properly yet, brain is still scattered through time and space!
Hmmm ok this is timey wimey. The remote Clara picks up has writing on it to burn into her hand. The remote the doc picks up is blank (because he writes on it using the sonic). Therefore the one the doc picks up is the one the salvagers genuinely dropped and not the one Clara dropped. So there’s now 2.
Therefore its not a paradox and although it’s not impossible Clara willed a remote into being, that’s not necessary for the plot to work.
Technically that means every iteration of the loop creates an extra remote on the console room floor. Since they’re not awash with them, they can only have gone around the loop once before @scaryb
28 April 2013 at 10:14 #7011Ok it’s quite possible this story actually resolves some of the major threads weve been discussing:
In at least one iteration of the loop, they all get barbecued by the finest in TimeLord grilling technology. The already destroyed engine room was held in a temporary stasis, so in that iteration although not shown, the tardis innevitably explodes. 2nd tardis explosion – Check.
Clara is in the tardis at the time so conceivably this explosion is what scatters her across time and space. Possible Check.
I’ve written elsewhere that I thought this eventuality and the doctors failure of his duty of care for Clara has a devastating effect on him. This basically just happend, and the doc is clearly left with new doubts, so – check.
At the same time, there is a crack in time connecting to at least one other console room, so it’s conceivable that this also connected to Rivers Big Bang tardis which we also know had a crack (on the console screen) and was the cause of this hitherto unexplained explosion – Check (as it turned out, no multi tardii pile up required)
It’s also therefore the same crack the doc reached through and retreived a piece of tardis debris way back. Check.
Destroying the universe just turning off the shields for a few secs during a driving lesson – talk about butterfly effect!
Although it wasn’t spelled out (moffatt tends not to signpost “and this is the explanation” for arcs, as we know) I think he’s just wrapped at least some threads up quite neatly (this explaining Clara fracturing needs more corroboration though), ready for the finale.
My usual fins and foils – @bluesqueakpip @scaryb @juniperfish @whisht @jimthefish @phaseshift @whohar @ardaraith @lula @thedoctordude @bobbingbird @chickenelly @wolfweed @craig @shazzbot @badwolf99 @phileasf – what do you guys think?
28 April 2013 at 09:24 #7006@badwolf99 – I don’t think Clara willed a new button into existence, the “big button” was just for the shields the doc had just disabled moments earlier, was it not?
The circular paradox nature of the resolution makes it hard to attribute it to either Clara or the doc. The doc writes the message, Clara shows it to the doc, inspiring him to write it and deliver it to her in the first place… looped, with no causation event.
28 April 2013 at 00:31 #6993@wolfweed – I thought the same, I’m assuming they used the same cgi model with minor tweaks to save money.
28 April 2013 at 00:29 #6992@scaryb @juniperfish – oh don’t get me wrong, the letting definitely develops over time. I’m just saying it’s fully legible before the engine room!
27 April 2013 at 23:23 #6980@besd1 – Clara passes the observatory just before the pool. You see it actually named later on the tardis map on the console room screen.
27 April 2013 at 23:19 #6977@juniperfish – actually if you rewatch Clara’s hand is quite readable (except they cut away too fast, so you need to freeze frame) when Clara is in the corridors on her own for the 2nd time seeing recent echoes.
From the doctors “2days” remark, I assume he remembers the whole thing and was possibly testing if Clara remembered anything.
27 April 2013 at 22:55 #6964@bluesqueakpip @ardraith – damn good point. We’ve already established in AGMGTW that the tardis will not translate high gallifreyan… Hmmmm.
27 April 2013 at 22:47 #6961@phaseshift – I did say any tardis, not necessarily his own. The doctors would have been a sweet act of revenge…
However – “massive act of revenge on the time lords” … Yeah, OK, I’d buy that for a dollar.
27 April 2013 at 22:42 #6958@juniperfish – not if he didn’t run off in the tardis till past 100 years old …
27 April 2013 at 22:00 #6947Continuity boo boo – “big friendly button” is written in a completely different way on the grenade and Claras hand – different justification, line spacing and alignment.
Also worth pointing out that as a plot point it borrows from 2 different star trek tng episodes IMHO (albeit, both great ones)
Also @wolfweed @pedant @scaryb – theres no parchment at the end, it’s just the rag the doctor was holding – he tosses it over his head and briefly out of shot then it falls on the console. Sorry!
Also, again I noted that when the doc says “anything could happen (with me)” there’s more than a hint of flirting in her reply! Their relationship is absolutely bordering on romantic rather than familial, though to be fair, it could be Clara mistaking his obvious fascination with her as infatuation.
27 April 2013 at 21:24 #6929No no no! Ok even just “an” eye of harmony being in the tardis is hugely problematic. Otherwise the premise of a Deadly Assassin is trashed – anyone needing a new regeneration cycle just needs to take a wander down to the heart of any tardis, and the Master, as we know, has one of his very own. And the eye can hardly be lost in time to the point of being considered a myth if engineers are merrily fitting them on the tardis production line. And without deadly assassin you have no premise for keeper of traken, no logopolis, no destruction of most of the universe in heat death … and no 4th regeneration. These are not minor continuity problems! Argh!
I was way off with my shada idea. I quite like the charred echos from their future – very macabre – but why would being horribly burnt turn you homicidal?
Interestingly we’ve been wondering how Clara can seem to intuit solutions – well Gregor at the end implies the mechanism: a some point coming up, if time is majorly rewritten (I’ve suggested elsewhere right back 50 years) it will leave Clara with a vague feeling of what needs to be done when retreading her story again (And a feeling what the doc is called and presumably what he did in the time war, of course!).
But what’s interesting is Gregor remembers because the doctor told him to, Clara says that she wants to remember as he steps into the rift and of course Clara pivotal instruction to the doctor is “remember” – this all lays the groundwork for it to be her last words to him before the upcoming reboot…
27 April 2013 at 15:46 #6873I’m gnashing already @wolfweed. I think we have to accept the whole movie as canon. It’s just so painful because it’s the creation of someone will no love, interest or even vague understanding of the shows premises and history.
26 April 2013 at 19:39 #6749@galactus – the link… Or selling your people into slavery in a misguided deal with the daleks?
If the latter, make sure you keep the receipt, there’re right buggers when in comes to returns…
26 April 2013 at 14:31 #6729Passing thought – the Tardis seems to have been transformed from the white walled, peaceful enclave of old into some dark, dank, industrial place, which it’s dangerous to wander too far into (he’s mortally concerned when Clara wanders down there, something is clearly lurking down there.) and – crucially – is now heavily locked down. We’ve seen hints of this in Doctors Wife (e.g. passworded doors), the next ep really ups the ante.
Theory – after Gallifrey is put in a Time Lock, Shada (Doctor Who’s Arkam Asylum) no longer has wardens! So the doc transfers all the crazy inmates into the depths of the tardis and locks it all off, with plenty of booby traps.
Possible Clue? The key to Shada was an innocent looking academic book on history(The Worshipful and Ancient Law of Gallifrey) and the prison opened by turning to the last page … seem a bit familiar?
26 April 2013 at 14:05 #6726@bluesqueakpip – One facet of Clara=”Pheonix Doctor” I really like is that it looks like (from the next ep trailers) idealistic Clara is about to be horrified by what she discovers she was/will become (though it works almost as well his daughter too).
Distinct parallels with Christmas Carol, that …
26 April 2013 at 13:49 #6725@bluesqueakpip – good point, had forgotten about Madam etc. But I also do kind like the idea of River hiding the sprogs from the Doctor, just because he’s such an irresponsible so-and-so; “just taking her in her stroller for a walk around the Eye of Orion … Oh look, its been invaded by cybermen … Here, cyberleader, just hold this nappy a sec while I get my sonic screwdriver out, there’s a good chap …”
etc
26 April 2013 at 13:32 #672425 April 2013 at 21:58 #6684@juniperfish – ingenious! Maybe that’s the paradox that caused the crack around Amy, and it gives a get out clause for the “docs mum was human howler” … What he meant was the Mother of all time lords is human.
The logical conclusion is that Clara is their daughter and for reasons best known to herself, river hid her from the doctor until she was an adult, then nudged her towards her estranged father by posing as a IT advisor in a shop, i.e. in the usual way.
It fits the “she’s adopted” and the “tardis doesn’t like the paradox” theories. And it’s a thankfully completely normal way to raise a child so no worries there.(to be fair,it makes sense river hides the child so the doc is not tempted to take her on some crazy adventure till she’s grown up)
It might even pave a way to bring the timelords back – she’s the only person to outrank spittle ejecting, big collared nut job, Rassilon, and thus can talk them down.
And it gives then daleks one last way to win the time war – by killing Clara before she gets down to begating a civilisation.
Clara would bear the time sensitives who went on to be the first time travellers in the Caramel Masterplan (the most delicious of the Time Lord origin stories)? Possibly she is Pythia?
I thinks I likes it! It still leaves multiple claras to be explained though, and we don’t have any evidence yet that she has TL physiology, despite some people giving it a lot of intense study.
@whisht – Arf!
25 April 2013 at 19:05 #6665@ardaraith – and of course don’t forget the subject of my doctoral thesis – the Theta Trouser Uncertainty co-efficient, which is laymans terms is an attempt to define the exact ratio between trouser length and inside leg, where the trouser is not quite short enough that you will definitely get rid of the trousers, but not quite long enough such that when you wear them, you’re not entirely, 100% confident that you don’t look just a little bit of a prat*
*with acknowledgement to Doctor Max Wall and Professor T Cooper who did much of the seminal work in the trouser area **
**In retrospect, that last sentence didn’t quite come out the way I planned.
25 April 2013 at 18:50 #6664OK a question I’ve been meaning to ask for a few days: It’s implied that some great secret of the Doc is about to be revealed. My question is, not what do you think it will be, be what do you want it to be?
Some options are:
He’s the Other
He’s Rasillon
He’s Omega
He’s a TL master criminal on the run who killed the original Doctor and used his identity to flee Gallifrey as a harmless Type40 joyrider, and subsequently devoted his life to penance for his crimes
He’s another TL who was standing next to the Doctor when he was killed during the Time War, and subsequently took over his life at the Sterling Cooper Advertising Agency (uh – wait a minute …)
He’s guilty of genocide
He’s guilty of genocide, but it included One Direction so it’s OK
He’s actually God and now requires JLC to complete some arbitary task in order to be able to “leap” into to the next episode. For some reason, she will never say, “You know what, fuck it, I’ll stay here”
JLC is actually his father and the Master is his twin sister
The doctor stole the hand of omega and silver nemesis and went on the run. Everything since then has just been him putting everyone off the scent
The doctor is his own mother
Everything so far in the Doctors life has actually been a convoluted set up for the most complex practical joke of all time. We’re just 3 more episodes away from finally getting the Emperor Dalek to put an ink covered telescope up to its single eye-stalk.
OK I was getting a bit silly, please don’t feel to be as purile as I am. Just tell me what you want, what you really want. No, tell me what you want, what you really, really want
etc.
25 April 2013 at 18:14 #6661@phaseshift @jimthefish @ardaraith – right you are sir, my apologies. Have you ever considered adopting PhaseFish as an honorary title 😀 ?
I really like the idea that Theta Sigma is a schoolboy pun on his real name which was some much more complex expression. Like if someone were called E=MC2 and ends up with the nickname CeeCee.
25 April 2013 at 18:05 #6660Well you learn something new every day – thank you @ardaraith !
25 April 2013 at 17:59 #6657@lula – I’m the worst person to ask about accents because I have no ear for them at all. From what I’ve heard of Tennant (I’ve seen him on stage a few times before Who, notably in Look Back in Anger in Glasgow) his RP isn’t great (the Scottish inflection kept leaking through). His Who is generally what I think most people would call “esturary english”, which shares the same southern root as RP, but has a strong inflection of working class London Cockney mixed in. I reckon they asked him to use that to cover up the hints of scottish-ness he couldn’t reign in, but I still think they kept escaping, especially when he starts shouting, or saying things like “Ohhhhh Yesssssss”.
Actually I say all the doctors pre Ecclestone were RP, forgetting poor Sylvester and his marvellous RRRRRRRrolling R’s hailing from Argyll (Scotland). I did say that my accent is just mental – at some point I picked up rolling R’s and I’m looking right at you McCoy to blame for that one (actually its just a tremendously good way to do some scene stealing in meetings. Unexpectedly dropping into broad Yorkshire works pretty well as well. Aye lad, that t’it does n’all)
25 April 2013 at 17:35 #6656@ardaraith @phaseshift – Greek letters inexplicably crop up a lot with Timelords: the docs nickname was Theta Sigma, he graduated with a Double Gamma, one of the founders of Gallifrey is called Omega. Curiously Underworld (which tells the story of the fate of the Timelords wards, the Minyans) is rife with Greek mythology references. Not sure what to do with all of that other than say that there’s a precedent for Greek getting in there somewhere.
Personally I don’t think we’re going to get either his name or anything other than more tantalising hints about his origins that ask more questions than they answer.
What I think we will get in terms of “secrets” will all be within the scope of Nu-Who – i.e. things he had to do of questionable morality during the Time-War, or maybe even over the last few series off-camera while travelling on his own.
25 April 2013 at 16:36 #6652@lula – with pleasure (although @whohar has already got in an excellent concise answer)
RP is “received pronunciation” – its the accent the all actors and announcers working on the BBC were trained to adopt for “maximum clarity” for the majority of listeners right through to the end of the 20th century . What’s odd about it is that it’s not an accent of anywhere – no-one naturally speaks like that in “real life” (though it’s fairly pervasive to anyone who’s been through the top end of the public school system). It’s an accent of a posh nowhere, but because it’s what’s in our TV, it’s what most people outside the UK think of as a “British” accent.
What’s ironic is that when it was actually researched, it turned out that most people found certain posh regional accents with high over-ennunciation – especially those from around Aberdeen (such as Cults) – actually had the most clarity and were the easiest to listen to. This has lead (along with a general effort to be seen to decentralise the BBC away from London) to RP being phased out in favour of a mix or regional accents.
All Doctors up till Ecclestone used RP, and because it’s so pervasive in their working life, many actors just end up talking with it all the time.
I say all this needless detail as a preamble to a question: is there a US equivalent to RP?
Trivia: there is for frogs! There is only 1 frog in the world which goes “Ribbet” and it happens to be found just outside LA. Because it was the first frog an early talkies sound engineer recorded (and which everyone has thereafter reused – lazy sods), we’re now all – incorrectly – convinced that is the sound all frogs make … but they don’t …
25 April 2013 at 16:18 #6651@bluesqueakpip – I didn’t necessarily mean professionally; i just mean she’ll have spent a lot of time in the last few years either living, workshopping or auditioning round London, hanging out with the London media crowd in soho etc. It inevitably wears the edges off your natural accent, especially if professionally she’s not had to concentrate on maintaining a “working” accent (e.g. RP) but has been on cruise control using her own.
That’s basically what happened to me (I’m not an actor though), noone can ever place my accent now. I’ve always suspected that the softer accents from lancashire/derbyshire/cheshire are quite prone to erosion (where as a hard Mancunian accent like Ecclestones will withstand a thermonuclear strike)
24 April 2013 at 23:28 #6628@lula @badwolf99 – a shout out for Breaking Bad from me too; I’ve met all sorts of people hot and cold on Wire, Mad Men (especially) and the Sopranos etc. But I’ve never met anyone who wasn’t gripped by BB from episode 1. I stayed up all night watching the whole series – I have never done that for any other show, before or since.
On a completely different tack, but on my mind because I was lucky enough to see it earlier today; The Book of Mormon is every bit as good as the hype, if not twice as good (and unexpectedly sweetly supportive of the importance of church and faith, it turns out). If you ever get the chance, do, do, do. I’ve seen hundreds of live shows, but only ever seen two genuine (spontaneous, and the whole audience as one) standing ovations – this was the second.
24 April 2013 at 23:00 #6627@lula @bluesqueakpip – hell I’m just enjoying hearing a cosily familiar accent on telly, wobbly or not from JLC. Not heard often enough (comedy continuity announcers do not count)
I can’t say I’m noticing it wobbling so much myself, but it does seem odd as its her own natural accent (Matt slipping from RP makes sense). I reckon she’s simply gone a bit trans-pennine (like trans-atlantic but smaller and more bumpy) – i.e. it’s her own accent, but meed-yar land over the last few years has blurred it. If so, I’d hate to think what your friends in Bedford would make of mine these days!
24 April 2013 at 22:53 #662622 April 2013 at 23:41 #6419@phaseshift – how about the Kendal Masterplan? (freshly minted)
22 April 2013 at 23:35 #6418Seriously though, does anyone on here think love is NOT going to save the day?
I still think there’s an outside chance on the day being saved by 6ft4 shape changing trans-sexual kangaroo named Gerald. But failing that, yes, love.
22 April 2013 at 19:38 #6397@whisht –
being ‘normal’ means I wasted a disproportionate amount of time trying to figure out an anagram of Clara Oswin Oswald.
The problem with anagramming Clara’s name is that she has more letters on the inside than on the outside …
22 April 2013 at 17:44 #6391And if anyone was wondering why I (rather than the cloister bell) won’t shut the hell up – http://xkcd.com/303/
22 April 2013 at 17:42 #6390Actually more to the point @lula I’ve been meaning to ask this for a couple of days; why, exactly, is the cloister bell ringing at all? It’s supposed to warn of imminent danger to the Tardis, not the doc (the doc’s always in danger, of course. If would never shut up if it was just that)
So what precisely did the Tardis think was a threat?
22 April 2013 at 16:32 #6388Oh one last thought – @shazzbot (and others) point out that Clara must be human (not say, some space-time anomaly) because she has a family.
(Maybe it shows how far Who has come, but noone blinked an eye and said “but what about her family” when princess astrid turned out to be a bit of crystal…)
Anyway – good point, but the Doc has now posited the mother of all get out clauses – “Paradoxes by and large resolve themselves”. Including, I guess, creating retrospectively whole family line if needed to explain the existence of the paradox! And all it took to retrospectively biologically create Clara was for fate to nudge a leaf on the wind into some mans face…
Also I do kind of realise that I’m playing devils advocate arguing in favour of “special” Clara after just making clear that companions must be “normal” (at least at the start of their journey). But baddies … baddies often start out with special abilities… (that’s my get out clause! :D)
I think these can be fitted together though – she’s an paradox that exists because it’s already changed the universe, so it has to. Time resolves the paradox of her existence by retrospectively creating a family to give birth and raise a perfectly normal (pretty, clever, bit scared) human girl. Which of course it itself a paradox, since she needs to be special. So now time needs to take her on a journey which takes her from human to special, which is where the doc comes in. Both are now unwitting actors in Times plan to resolve the paradox.
… And I’m wondering if the only way for the doctor can find to resolve that paradox is to completely undo his own timeline – right back to totters yard as the ultimate sacrifice (after all, all he is is those memories, which he’ll have to lose), thus rebooting the show from scratch.
22 April 2013 at 16:19 #6387@phileasf – totally agree, see my earlier post about the same scene. Watch carefully Clara’s expression as the doc says “love story”. That is suddenly one very knowing and happy smile that you don’t often see outside classic screw-ball romance comedies – and suddenly the doc feels self-conscious and whips away his arm …
22 April 2013 at 16:14 #6386@Shazzbot – don’t worry, the doc promised crooked man that he would take them “somewhere else where they could be together”
Minor literary point – if the docs last uttering in the episode is “jump!” (can’t remember and I’m stuck on a train for next 4 hours) that’s also – famously – the last word in Catch-22; also the advice given to a character (Yossarian) seemingly endlessly trapped in a crazy universe that misunderstands him…
22 April 2013 at 16:08 #6385@bluesqueakpip – oh you clever pipsqueak you! We never thought that “Rose” doesn’t have to refer to Rose Tyler. Why should it? And that opens up all sorts of interesting literary references. tNOtH is one, and the last line does seem very pertinent. It makes complete sense that in the end, all that he leaves is the name he (according to River) gave the universe – the word for “healer” and “wise man”. Given Moffatt has been nursing that origin of the name (or more strictly , the origin of the word) for 15 years, it makes sense that is the resolution of “the name of the doctor”.
The poem that inspired Eco also seems apt:
Red rose growing in the meadow,
you vaunt yourself bravely
bathed in crimson and carmine:
a rich and fragrant show.
But no: Being fair,
You will be unhappy soon(And shakespeare of course).
One thing worries me – Pip if you’re blue, does that mean soon you won’t exist? 🙁
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