• blenkinsopthebrave replied to the topic On The Sofa (6)

    @JimTheFish

    I got 4, which I was rather surprised by. It does make you wonder what sort of answers would get you Colin Baker.

  • @purofilion

    On Christmas choices I have quite a lot, some of which have been mentioned already.

    You may not have been around when I wrote about The Avengers: Too many Christmas Trees for a group watch, but its still here. Christmas doesn’t really start for me until I watch it.

    Like @JimTheFish I also have a Bones episode, but mine tends to be t…[Read more]

  • @JimTheFish

    Planes, Trains and Automobiles

    Ooooh – good shout. Totally forgot about it.

    I like the Patrick Stewart Christmas Carol, but I find that he strays into full I’m A Shakespearian Actor mode once or twice too often. Sims’s restrained paranoia is a treat.

    Trading Places is, indeed, always a delight.

    And The Great Escape (The Likely Lads:…[Read more]

  • @JimtheFish @DrBen

    apologies for not responding sooner. I did write a reply but the system wiped it before I could post. I’ve been away since.

    The “problem” that the audience faces is the Doctor looks Human, […]

  • @JimTheFish

    The coffee shop/ chocolate shop in Martin Place was right at the top, around the corner from the legal centre of Sydney, hence one of the victims being a barrister. I think it only opened about 10 years ago, so you may never have seen it. It was beautiful. Really beautiful. I used to go there, as did many friends. In fact, I used to…[Read more]

  • Barbara Lefty replied to the topic Website comments (2)

    @Craig, @JimtheFish or other MODs, clue an eejit in, would you? From a tablet, thus lacking a control key, is there a way to paste without downloading a full keyboard emulator, or breaking into Mr Lefty’s rubbish laptop?

    Ta muchly

  • @Purofilion @Pedant and @JimtheFish

    Awww – just dropping in on the Buffy-fest to say how much this show still has a special place in my heart. It ends up being a heroines journey to the underworld story for our times.

    I think writers Marti Noxon and Jane Espenson should get especial credit alongside Joss, because, looking at Dollhouse (which I…[Read more]

  • @JimTheFish

    That’s well done.  As a web designer I love seeing this sort of stuff.  CSS isn’t very exciting, but I like what you are doing with the HTML5.  Love it.

  • Juniperfish replied to the topic Website comments (2)

    I will definitely also vote for The Cloven Hoof joining @Craig and @JimtheFish , The Beast Below would also work, although I do like The Fox Goes Free very much @Phaseshift 🙂

  • Craig replied to the topic Website comments (2)

    Oh choices. So many wonderful ones. @Phaseshift @JimtheFish @FatManInABox I’m quite happy for you to start a new “pub”. I do kinda like The Cloven Hoof though.

  • Ack!  That should be @JimTheFish — Whither Edit Button?

  • Katharine replied to the topic The Rose & Crown

    @JimTheFish Agreed, very careful about spoilers. As far as Angel goes, I suppose I feel cheated of the season already planned by JW, because he had to wrap it all up without much warning; but he did do it pretty well. I have very mixed feelings about the end of Buffy – it didn’t help that teasers about the upcoming season of Angel spoiled a m…[Read more]

  • @Jimthefish @BESD1

    Hi there. I think your points of view are both right of course and I find it easy to agree with both sides of your argument based on certain criteria. However, I’m not sure that you can make […]

  • @Bluesqueakpip

    Nope

    And definitely don’t mention the greatest exercise in misdirection of all time….

    (We’re just taunting you now @purofilion – like @JimTheFish I am profoundly envious that you are discovering BtVS for the first time)

  • @JimTheFish

    Hope you don’t mind but I thought it would be interesting to bring our discussion from the other place as I think its a fairly fundamental disagreement (with the emphasis on the fun) and I’d be […]

  • Bluesqueakpip commented on the post, Death and the Doctor

    @JimTheFish

    but it struck me that this year we’ve seen the very idea of Who monsters questioned.

    I absolutely agree. I think Moffat’s been heading in this direction for a bit. But I don’t think it’s the […]

  • @JimTheFish

    Hello Captain Controversial, my fishy friend.

    I’m not sure that postmodern relativism counts necessarily as a ‘bad thing’. I’m not sure the story needed to go deeper into historical context

    Oh well, I suppose I will have to reply to this as well.

    I will do it by repeating something I said in response to discussion of our viewing…[Read more]

  • @Jimthefish

    Re Missy’s formidable hypnotic/manipulative powers as per @Bluesqueakpip suggests – I agree the in-episode evidence is sparse, but it is hinted at eg the phone call from the “woman with the Scottish […]

  • Craig here. It gives me great pleasure to post another blog by guest blogger – @cathannabel !

    Sometimes everything you read or watch seems to have a connection, a theme that’s so clear it feels as though it cannot be mere coincidence, even though it is impossible for it to be otherwise. It’s been that way lately with death. Obviously once one heads into middle age and beyond, intimations of mortality come thick and fast. But it really isn’t just that.

    The theme that has been so inescapable over recent weeks is not just mortality in general. It’s the blurring of the boundaries between death and life, about attempts to make the barrier between the two permeable. I’ve just finished reading Stephen King’s Revival, about which I can say little without risking spoilers, but which, suffice it to say, explores this theme in compelling and haunting fashion. And then there was Lynn Shepherd’s latest literary thriller, The Pierced Heart, after previous works drawing on, variously, Austen, Dickens and the Shelleys, this time turning to Stoker and the Dracula mythos, subverting the genre tropes without losing the chills. So when I picked up Peter Carey’s Bliss, and read the first sentence: ‘Harry Joy was to die three times, but it was his first death which was to have the greatest effect on him’, I was tempted to say, enough already with the whole thing.

    Especially as this season of Doctor Who has had such a preoccupation with death. Death and regeneration/rebirth, death and afterlife. These themes have percolated through the episodes, with varying degrees of intensity, culminating in the series finale, whose first part saw the highly disturbing notion that the dead maintain consciousness, aware of what is happening to their mortal remains, and that the message they want to convey to us, the living, is ‘Don’t cremate me!’. Of course, this was a con, but it was unsettling, to say the least, and the thought, once planted, may prove difficult to uproot. Part two showed us mortuaries and graveyards giving up their dead, now encased in cyberman armour and awaiting orders to destroy and/or assimilate the living.

    Not only this, but the finale presented us with the deaths of Danny, Osgood and Kate, to name only those who have had the chance to embed themselves in the consciousness and affections of regular watchers of the show. (The body count in previous episodes has been high too, whether significantly higher than in previous series I will leave to other Whovians to assess.)

    However for some, death proved to be less than permanent. Danny Pink reappeared as a semi-cyberman, retaining enough of his humanity to resist the orders of Missy and lead his cyber army to suicide rather than to victory. Is he now gone, for good? Kate fell to earth but her dead father saved her. Osgood appears, as far as we know now, to be simply dead.

    Sci fi and fantasy take liberties with the boundaries between life and death, on a regular basis. In The Walking Dead all who die, unless despatched in a particular way, will reawaken as zombies (walkers). The living are engaged in a constant battle against the dead. French series The Returned gives us more mysterious revenants, seemingly unchanged from their living selves, and seemingly not out to harm the living (though we will see, in series 2, whether that is really the case).

    In the context of Who, however, I’d suggest it’s more relevant to look at the way in which the Buffyverse handles death. @JimTheFish has already noted the nods to Buffy in the finale: ‘And again with the Buffy maybe? Plucky lone girl surrounded by gravestones as creatures rise from the grave. Not to mention tear-jerking goodbyes with her now-undead boyfriend.’

    death-and-the-doctor

    Clara rages about Danny’s death, that it should have been significant and instead it was mundane, ‘boring’:

    It was ordinary. People just kept walking with their iPods and their shopping bags. He was alive, then he was dead and it was nothing. Like stepping off a bus.

    This had echoes too, of the death of Buffy’s mother – a prosaic tragedy without supernatural cause and, particularly, of Anya’s speech about it:

    I don’t understand how this all happens. How we go through this. I mean, I knew her, and then she’s – There’s just a body, and I don’t understand why she just can’t get back in it and not be dead anymore. It’s stupid. It’s mortal and stupid. And – and Xander’s crying and not talking, and – and I was having fruit punch, and I thought, well, Joyce will never have any more fruit punch ever, and she’ll never have eggs, or yawn or brush her hair, not ever, and no one will explain to me why. (‘The Body’, season 5)

    Osgood’s death, and Kate’s, whilst not mundane in terms of cause, are almost casual in presentation. No time for heroics, or farewell speeches. Joss Whedon despatches Anya almost casually – she dies fighting the uber vampires, but blink and you’ll miss it, it’s not highlighted or dramatised. Death’s like that. Arbitrary, stupid, pointless.

    Except that there’s another strand, of death as chosen, heroic, self-sacrificial. In Death in Heaven, Danny gets a crack at a less boring exit. He’s given the chance to choose death second time around (and to make a speech about it).

    Attention! This is not a good day. This is Earth’s darkest hour. And look at you miserable lot. We are the fallen. But today, we shall rise. The army of the dead will save the land of the living. This is not the order of a general. Nor the whim of a lunatic…. This is a promise. The promise of a soldier. You will sleep safe tonight.

    The speech may appear to be aimed at his cyber-comrades but clearly its real audience is Missy, the Doctor and above all Clara. It’s – perhaps deliberately – classic eve of battle rhetoric – think Idris Elba cancelling the apocalypse in Pacific Rim, or Leonidas sending his Spartans into battle.

    We await the Christmas special to find out Danny will have a third go at some sort of life. I kind of hope not. Not that I begrudge Clara a chance to make a better job of loving him than she did first time around, or Danny himself a chance to redeem his past through living rather than dying. But where death is chosen, self-sacrificial, does its reversal squander the emotional weight of the sacrifice? Not necessarily – Buffy’s return in Season 6 was shown as something itself painful and traumatic, rather than just the cancellation of the pain and trauma of her death in the finale of Season 5. It can work, but Buffy, after all, whilst mortal, is kind of a super-hero, and they play by different rules. Danny, as far as we know, is just a bloke.

    Kate’s rescue seems to me to make Osgood’s less likely. Along with so many viewers, I really wanted Osgood not to die, and there was much shouting at the screen when we realised what was afoot. But I’m not sure that I want another death to be overturned.

    There are a number of issues here. The first is common to all long-running TV dramas – how to keep real suspense and tension when the audience knows that certain characters cannot be killed off. When the Enterprise crew beams down onto a hostile planet, we know full well that it is the red shirts that will be zapped or otherwise despatched into oblivion, not the captain or any of his core crew. Occasionally that confidence is misplaced. But mostly, if one of the core characters appears to be dead, we are pretty sure that some plot device is in motion to bring them back (see Spock, Tasha Yar, Buffy, Loki, the Master/Missy…). And of course the sci fi/fantasy context means that a way can always be found, retro-engineered if need be into the cosmology of the show, to get around the problem of losing a character that is felt to be essential to its long-term success.

    Not that the absence of timey-wimey or supernatural mechanisms prevents soap operas from playing fast and loose with death. News just in – Madge and Harold Bishop are back! Both of them have been previously killed off, but the writers are undeterred, it’s Neighbours 30th anniversary, and it wouldn’t be the same without them. And unless one has personally checked the corpse for vital signs and got a DNA match it would be unwise to believe in the demise of anyone on Hollyoaks. It might seem odd to claim a greater degree of realism for a programme whose protagonist is a two-hearted time travelling alien than for the soaps. But far happier to suspend my disbelief with regard to Who, Buffy and other dramas which play havoc with the laws of physics but at their best offer us emotional truths.

    Doctor Who has the particular challenge of its status as a family/children’s programme. It’s never been just a kids’ show and certainly with each regeneration it has retained the children who first watched it into their adulthood and parenthood whilst gathering in their children, and so on. It is still a show that the generations watch together, but the adults are there not just to comfort and reassure their frightened offspring but to enjoy it for themselves. But the presence of the children is a constraint which Buffy did not have to work within. That’s why the deaths, when they occur, are off-screen, or else clean – people are vapourised rather than eviscerated. We rightly shield younger viewers from the kind of gore that The Walking Dead so delights in. We can’t and shouldn’t however skate around the issue of death.

    Of course children’s stories have always brought us face to face with death. My own and earlier generations wept for Bambi’s mother, as my children’s generation did for Simba’s father. In fact, the child heroes of many of the classics had misplaced one or both parents, even if the manner of their loss was not dwelt upon. The generations contemporary with Louisa May Alcott, Frances Hodgson Burnett, Lucy M Montgomery and their ilk were familiar with death, after all, with child mortality and perinatal maternal mortality at levels unimaginable to us today, at least here in the First World. Stories give us ways of understanding, of dealing with, the stuff that happens to us, and the best ones don’t just sugar the pill, cosying everything up, with rainbow bridges and happy ever afters, but acknowledge mortality in all its cruelty, that it takes whoever it wishes, pets, parents, friends.

    I have no problem therefore with death – real, permanent, boring, pointless death – being part of the drama of Who, nor yet with the freedom that sci-fi/fantasy allows to take some of the sting of death away. But for the reversals to have any dramatic or emotional weight, we need there to be the possibility that this time it’s for keeps, that the danger is real, that we may lose someone we care for and that others we care for may be plunged into terrible grief.

    We will not know until the Christmas special – if then – whether Danny Pink will return. We’ve been given the nod that things can’t be left as they were at the end of Death in Heaven. Quite right – that was bleak. Too bleak for the kids, too bleak for me. But I hope that there will be a different way of making things better, so that we can leave the Doctor and Clara in a more hopeful place, without simply erasing the loss and hurt that they’ve been through.

    After all, what have we learned this series? OK, that there’s no such thing as an arboreal coincidence, which may or may not ever be a particularly handy bit of info. More importantly, we’ve learned that ‘stories can make us fly’. And we’ve learned about our ordinary human superpowers, not just the power to forget, but the most important one, fear. And all of the things that we fear come back to this – our own extinction, or the extinction of the people we love.

    Fear is a superpower. Fear can make you faster and cleverer and stronger. … if you’re very wise and very strong fear doesn’t have to make you cruel or cowardly. Fear can make you kind. It doesn’t matter if there’s nothing under the bed or in the dark so long as you know it’s okay to be afraid of it. So listen. If you listen to anything else, listen to this. You’re always gonna be afraid even if you learn to hide it. Fear is like a companion, a constant companion, always there. But that’s okay because fear can bring us together. Fear can bring you home. I’m gonna leave you something just so you’ll always remember. Fear makes companions of us all.

  • @JimTheFish

    I agree that UNIT were acting so stupidly, it was as if they were under some kind of mass hypnosis.

    ::cough:: Missy ::cough, cough::

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