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30 March 2013 at 22:29 #3745
“Summer Falls”, and an Autumn leaf… and Christmas was definitely the winter of the Doctor’s discontent.
Death and rebirth (as per our Easter theme)?
Clara is resurrected in this episode. Twice previously she died and this time the Doctor resurrects her. He plays the part of God. This parallels his own death and resurrection at Easter by Lake Silencio.
Did anybody see any eggs?
30 March 2013 at 21:33 #3741Two Doctors again
Yes, it’s been a long-standing obsession of mine -going all the way back to “Amy’s Choice” and the Dream Lord and the two “realities”…
Agreed that we have no way to know which Clara is the “original” and, if we are in true post-modern style, there won’t be an identifiable “original”, just a multitide of larger-than-life copies.
I need to get a closer look at the new TARDIS interior, as these seem to reflect the Doctor’s state of mind.
30 March 2013 at 21:11 #3731@jimthefish I missed your “The Great Intelligence has been Doctorised” theory. But yes – bring me dark mirrors, bring me doppleganger Doctor, bring me the Doctor as light and dark versions of the Pied Piper stealing children away, either for good or for ill.
I don’t share your grump. Maybe I’ve eaten too many magic jammy dodgers 🙂
30 March 2013 at 20:35 #3725@phaseshift – I know! And honestly, the nesting thing has really destroyed the feeling I used to have over there. I just violently dislike the consequent lack of continuity and flow.
Now why would The Great Intelligence be uploading people, particularly people with good computing skills (as Clara is only “suitable” once she’s had a computer-skills upgrade)? What is it trying to hack? The Time Lock on Gallifrey perchance?
Could Richard E. Grant/ The Great Intelligence be The Valeyard? There WAS something creepy about seeing that both today’s villainess and the Grant character at Christmas were hijacked by the Intelligence as children. We’ve seen the Eleventh Doctor “hijack” Amy and River and now Clara as children. Wow it would be wonderfully dark if Grant was a dark-mirror of the Doctor!
30 March 2013 at 20:19 #3719@chickenelly – nice to see the pipe of contemplation is in action once more!
@scaryb – hope the demo went well! Couldn’t agree more on the skulduggery of the “bedroom tax”, introduced of course, by those with more than one wing to their own homes…
Nice to see Unit making an appearance – hope we get to see the Brig’s daughter again before the year is out.
30 March 2013 at 19:42 #3707Oh and how much do I hate that you cannot edit your posts on The Guardian. I have just spelled “dystopia” incorrectly and now I am covered in shame 🙂
Thanks again to our webmaster for our comfortable home here!
30 March 2013 at 19:27 #3705Hi comrades! Well, I just posted over on Dan Martin’s thread. He wasn’t that impressed, but actually I love it. Maybe it’s the holiday spirit but it could have been subtitled “a very British romp” or “the ’60s Mon Amour” and I’m ok with that!
Jammy dodgers, the fez, a bow-tie, a new TARDIS interior with a lot of Gallifreyan symbology above the main console? Excellent.
Jenna Louise is more than the Doctor’s equal in stubborness, sass and smarts and that makes me happy too.
Richard E. Grant again – what is the Great Intelligence up to?
30 March 2013 at 15:23 #3685Right – time to go forth and get supplies before the TARDIS lands! We will be able to “live blog” here on the sofa! See some of you folks here amongst the comfy cushions later 🙂
29 March 2013 at 10:05 #3635Hi folks! Is that coffee I smell @scaryb? Mmmmmnnnnn
I’ve got so much catching up to do. I think I saw news somewhere that Barrowman has confirmed he won’t be involved in the 50th? A damn shame if true.
Re the Guardian – gods I still can’t get my head round the nesting. Isn’t nesting supposed to be snuggly with blankets?
I will definitely head over there to wave at Dan and other fish comrades before settling in here with chocolate alien eggs!
19 March 2013 at 20:28 #3309@jimthefish and @phaseshift I can confirm your deductions – I looked our friend up on the Grauniad pages once and a blog was listed called…. Truculent Sheep (it had, I might add, about three followers).
16 March 2013 at 19:55 #3219Haha I doubt VERY much I could write anything that would tempt you to watch The Vampire Diaries.
However… you know I like a challenge 🙂
I am still drowning in work alas, but a semblance of sanity will return in a couple of weeks so then you’re on!
@pedant I haven’t seen Veronica Mars but now you’ve tempted me. So many shows, so little time! I haven’t even got started on The Walking Dead yet.
I’m about to catch up on the Neverwhere radio adaptation – thanks to @bluesqueakpip for reminding me.
16 March 2013 at 19:48 #3217@phaseshift – thanks – looks good!
There’s also the 50th Trailer here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8g5BrLm7uQ&feature=player_embedded
(sorry if someone has already posted this!)
16 March 2013 at 17:18 #3213Oh sorry @jimthefish, my bad – didn’t see you’d already posted the “discovered scripts” news just upstream! That’s what comes of swimming in too many time-streams at once 🙂
16 March 2013 at 08:24 #3203Hi folks,
I found this little piece of news – some original (unused) Dr. Who scripts by Anthony Coburn (who created the TARDIS) just discovered http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-03-14/doctor-who-never-before-seen-scripts-uncovered-in-kent
Looks as if TPTB might try and incorporated them into an exhibition this year.
9 March 2013 at 15:43 #3097That IS a really great idea. It actually gave me a chill because, huge cheesy “I am Spartacus” reference or not, I think it would be a very powerful participatory tribute to the show at the 50th Anniversary.
Wow it’s SO cheesy (but in a grandiose kind of good way) that it reminds me of RTD – are you him in disguise? 🙂
Moffat – steal this idea immediately if you haven’t already planned it!
Although – is it too similar to all earth inhabitants chanting the Doctor’s name to “empower him” during Martha’s year saving the planet from the Master in “Last of the Time Lords” to get a look-in?
Naw – Moff loves repeating themes in different forms…
8 March 2013 at 19:17 #3083@chickenelly Yes – thanks for the photo links! I see the bow-tie now has spots and dots and patterns and plots and OMG I need to write a treatise on this 🙂
@phaseshift Oh I am SERIOUSLY tempted by the convention. I’ve only been to one fan convention ever and that was a Buffy one and it was hideously commercial (but anthropologically fascinating). But this – I mean – we’re not going to live to see another 50th anniversary are we? I expect demand for tickets will be tremendous. I’m going to sign up to the newsletter to keep my eye on it!
I am so desperate for Easter now – not least because my work will ease up slightly then and I will actually be able to breathe again…
28 February 2013 at 17:51 #2935@whisht Hmm – now I look more closely it’s not a cyberman is it – it’s the K1 robot from Tom Baker’s first story, right?
28 February 2013 at 17:43 #2933@phaseshift I haven’t even looked at the new profiles page. I can’t keep track of my digital footprint as it is – aargh Charlie Brooker’s Black Mirror IS right – it’s a nightmare…
Honestly, we’re not trying to get you to have a nesting rant 🙂
Yes I’ll nip over to support Dan’s blog at some point too.
I’m looking forward to his actual episode blog opening again as well. I’m sure I’ll start over there after each episode airs and then end up here in our lovely chill-out space for late night cheese and port!
I remember reading the Dalek Invasion of Earth Target novel (being too “young” to have seen the original on TV), and the Robomen were enormously chilling, far scarier than the Daleks In Manhattan human-dalek hybrids – a dark commentary on control and forced labour.
Bring on the Easter avatar celebrations @bluesqueakpip @janetteb and @whisht (is that Mary cuddling a cyberman?). @chickenelly we will have to see if any of the Doctor’s outfits warrant a revamp of the pigeon!
As for me I am going to smugly await all further iterations of the “two-doctors” theory and hop between blue-fish and red-fish personalities to match…
28 February 2013 at 12:40 #2923@jimthefish <waves at fellow fish>
Yes, I’ve been watching Black Mirror!
<SOME SPOILERS FOR BLACK MIRROR and UTOPIA (although I’ll avoid twists in the tales)>
I find Charlie’s particular dystopian and self-referential vision (as in, priviledged media worker reflects on “the masses” uses of media) both darkly compelling and irritating at once. There are some good actors involved. In fact I thought Leonora Crichlow (from Being Human) was particularly good – it can’t be easy to maintain those kinds of levels of hysteria throughout shooting for a full hour’s worth of drama!
My irritation stems from the fact that all Brooker’s scenarios comment on media manipulation and political vacuity, but they offer a world without escape from either on a repeat-meme loop.
However, I infinitely preferred Black Mirror to Utopia. I disliked Utopia quite intensely because it combined stunning cinematography with shock-violence and a lack of character development. I just couldn’t care about the people, or rather, the narrative didn’t give me enough time to care about them before it began torturing them for visual effect.
However sardonic Black Mirror is, the main characters, I have to hand it to Charlie, are written with empathy.
JuniperFish over and out!
24 February 2013 at 15:23 #2879<waves> Yes, RIP Ray Cusick – single best use of a sink plunger in the history of civilisation.
Thanks for the link @scaryb – I saw Mark Ravenhill’s first play “Shopping and F****ing” many years ago and was not impressed by the bleak nihilism and deliberated shock-for-shock’s-sake, but, he’s probably matured since 🙂
24 February 2013 at 15:13 #2875Hi everyone 🙂
That made me smile @phaseshift – I miss Dr. Who Confidential and the behind-the-scenes glimpses.
Adding my congrats @miapatrick – you deserve it.
I went into a shop on my way home on Friday evening and it was all decked out in fluffy chickens and Easter chocolate eggs (already) and all I could think was – Dr. Who is coming back!
23 February 2013 at 11:29 #2849LindaLee meets Freema Agyeman – Linda Lee interviews the former companion…
http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/43499715460/four-year-old-doctor-who-fan-lindalee-rose
[crikey she’s sweet but look at all those cameras – I hope fame doesn’t ruin her 🙂 ]
18 February 2013 at 11:29 #2739Hi @blenkinsopthebrave and @janetteb – I’ve posted over there and flown the flag for our little haven too.
I don’t see the two spaces as competing but as complementary. It’s rather like discussing Dr. Who in a noisy bar over there and more like discussing Dr. Who on the sofa with a bunch of friends over here 🙂 Both can be fun.
I must check out the BFI website – there are talks and screenings – exciting!
16 February 2013 at 16:59 #2709Well this is the episode that launched the delightful Jenny and Vastra and it was positive feedback from the fan community, I’m certain, that led Moffat to bring them back for more as the Paternoster gang. I would so very much like them to travel in the TARDIS for at least a couple of adventures too.
It goes without saying that Vastra is majestic; a fighter and a thinker, a real swashbuckling adventurer. Jenny I really adore, because what could be braver than defying several of the prohibitions of your era at once to say “yes” to a partnership with a lizard woman from the dawn of time? I would love to see some further character exploration unfold for her (although I suspect that will be left up to us in fan-fiction).
This was also the episode which asked explicitly – is the Doctor a “good man”? He very clearly tells us (and Madame Kovarian) that he is not, that he has “so many rules” to try and keep himself in check.
This is, indeed, an episode I hope desperately we will be returning to, thread-wise, to find out more about the Omega insignia and who Kovarian and the Silence are working for/ with. I am also holding out for more of the “dark Doctor” glimpsed here, the one who gratuitously blew up a Cyber battalion to make a point, the one who gave me chills with his Colonel Runaway speech, whether that be doppleganger Doctor or the Valeyard or the Trickster or simply further-into-the-future Doctor.
Finally, this was the episode where we learned that the Doctor can speak “baby”, with adorable results, and where River at last revealed her Pond affiliations. So yes, very many things to recommend this.
@phaseshift – agreed on the hilarity of the S-E-X scene 🙂 Matt Smith is always superb but he shone so much in this episode – in that speech, then the Colonel Runaway speech, then his final confrontation with River (where he slipped from dangerous to giddy).
15 February 2013 at 18:09 #2685With The Master and Ming the Merciless as moderators the trolls will not be a problem. Ha ha ha! [Twirls moustache]
Too right! 🙂 @craig and @phaseshift !
Yes – a pretty interesting development over at The Guardian. Someone has been doing market research on our blog!
I say let’s interact over there and over here and mention our wonderful Who-haven occasionally and not treat them as competition but as interesting interactive spaces.
We have a nicer sofa tho’!
<Waves at everyone> work has been absolutely slaying me of late but I’ll drop back in and catch up at some point over the weekend (in between more work)
La Juniperfish
10 February 2013 at 14:01 #2593Thanks @craig 🙂 Yes, that was fun. I vote for Fiona Shaw (who isn’t on the list).
Check out this lovely piece of Fan-Video by MetalPandaAlex on YouTube. It’s sepia line-drawing credits for Jenny and Vastra’s adventures as Watson and Holmes:
6 February 2013 at 18:38 #2439@rob – oh brainstorm away in this thread I say – as much as this little corner of the Whoniverse is “public” 🙂
Unless you have some surefire scheme I doubt our fan ideas, however glorious, will go on to make millions?!
What did you have in mind?
Personally I’d like a “foe” of great moral ambiguity – a people who have done terrible things and yet are composers of some of the most beautiful music in the universe, as for instance…
6 February 2013 at 18:32 #2435Swiftly passing by the sofa to remark that the blog is looking fine!
Seems to be buzzing with all sorts of good-stuff crazy theories and cameraderie…
All hail the Blogmeister @craig and what a fun 50th year it’s going to be!
xx to all,
TheJFish
3 February 2013 at 21:19 #2359@scaryb I am a bit evil 🙂 (good evil, naturally)
[follows on from another thread rather than apropos of nothing!]
Why is it Monday tomorrow? I desperately need a time machine so I can fit everything I need to do into an impossibly small space that happily turns out to be bigger in the inside <sulks>
3 February 2013 at 21:15 #2357@miapatrick – nice post, and good to “see” you in this wee corner of the Whoniverse again <waves>
I didn’t think any Doctor would ever be able to live up to “mine” (Tom Baker) but Matt Smith is now equally beloved.
Yes, like you, I thought Tennant was great at the time (wished Ecclestone had stayed for longer as his take was very intriguing) but Smithy didn’t take long to blow right past him in my affections.
I think you’ve put your finger on why I can’t quite roll with comrades @jimthefish and @bluesqueakpip‘s “total reset for the 50th” theory. By connecting Smithy to the history of Dr. Who, newer fans, as you’ve demonstrated, get pulled into that history (and, not to be too cynical about it, but also potentially into all that lovely “historical” merchandise) 🙂
3 February 2013 at 16:05 #2351@whisht – I hadn’t come across Oswin as “I snow” before – love your theory that the GI could have been the one responsible for the exploding TARDIS (and therefore presumably the “silence will fall” hiss?).
What would connect the Great Intelligence to the Silence or indeed to silence? Any ideas anyone? Is its other name “The Great Bringer of Mute-ness”?
Clara as bait is also a nice idea. She keeps dying to intrigue the Doctor (who also likes a pretty face) so that he will follow her trail like breadcrumbs until… OR, maybe she is a double agent “Run you clever boy, and remember…” being a coded warning.
Now, does the GI like green eggs and ham, soufles, or other egg-baked goods so we can make another tenuous connection? 🙂
2 February 2013 at 11:56 #2295@rob Clara as the Master’s Idris is a fantastic idea and if it turns out she isn’t, then a Who writer in the future should definitely run with this as an arc plot, maybe even much further ahead, say for the next incarnation of the Doctor (noooooooooooooooooooo Matt, don’t leave us!)
A companion who really breaks the Doctor’s hearts as the result of a betrayal would be an excellent story.
30 January 2013 at 23:12 #2189@phaseshift sorry about the weird (bad weird, not good weird – good weird always being a GOOD THING)
@jimthefish LOL 🙂
Look at the link @craig has just posted – it will make you smile…
30 January 2013 at 23:08 #2185@craig – oh no those are great! Maybe post in Fan Creativity too?
I particularly like her rendition of the third and tenth Doctors, because those drawings somehow capture the personality of Pertwee and Tennant’s Doctors particularly well, in a certain mood anyway (twinkly/ naughty for Three and a bit mardy for Ten) Ha ha – love it!
30 January 2013 at 22:34 #2173Welcome back @phaseshift to the Who sofa! We’ve sworn a lot whilst you’ve been away…
Of course, I mean sworn undying fealty to the Whoniverse a lot, not actually “spent time seeding the blog with on-purpose-obscenities”
🙂
30 January 2013 at 22:07 #2169As there is a nice picture of Neil Gaiman’s mug above here, I want to say that I hope the code to the TARDIS’ old control room in The Doctor’s Wife “crimson, eleven, delight petrichor”, which our presently absent moderator @phaseshift did such a good job de-coding way back when (“the blood of the Doctor will bring new life and renewal”) comes back and has continued significance.
It seems to me that it is ripe to, what with the death and rising again sacrificial God themes of Easter, and the situating of the Doctor’s death around Easter last season and now the upcoming significance of Easter (and eggs) this season.
30 January 2013 at 22:00 #2165@jimthefish – I had to go and look at the Telegraph comments after you said that!
Some Telegraph readers live in a dimension quite opposite to my own.
Quoth someone there:
As long as they do not introduce more homosexuality and cross species lesbianism into the show
and there was me thinking as long as we get more of Jenny and Vastra and a return of Captain Jack for the 50th! 🙂
30 January 2013 at 17:20 #2147could our impossible woman have been scattered through the timerverse by some sort of Tardis mishap? Bad Wolf in humonoid form?
@rob – yes indeed – and that TARDIS mishap could have been the exploding TARDIS could it not? If Oswin’s scattering in time/ space was a result of “Big Bang 2” that would be great, because it would mean that Moffat was tying it all together rather than just moving on and leavin loose threads behind.
Personally, I’m convinced we will return to “Big Bang 2″ plot-wise because of the”Silence Will Fall” hissing voice in the TARDIS as River got stuck in its time-loopy explosion, particularly given that the theme of “”The Silence” is not over yet.
Rebooting the universe is some pretty big mojo and I wonder whether hubris is involved…
28 January 2013 at 21:42 #2059Lots of great Time Lord society / Time Lords “incoming alert” posts.
I am not convinced that the kind of full-on reset that comrades @jimthefish and @bluesqueakpip are suggesting will happen.
I can go with the idea of the Doctor dying and being reborn with a new set of regenerations. I can even buy “amnesia Doctor” for a while – a mad man in a box with no memory of who he used to be.
But, wiping his memory/ the universe’s memory clean completely and permanently for a full re-boot? I don’t know – that’s a big mythography / merchandise stream to jettison (as new fans won’t plug into the Doctor’s history if he can’t remember it himself).
I felt so sorry for Omega in The Three Doctors as a child – abandoned and trapped in the singularity, without corporeality.
Hmmn – what if the Doctor is the “Alpha” (beginning) to Omega’s the “end”?
Perhaps Gallifrey doesn’t escape from the Time Lock, but the Doctor and River’s children founds a new Gallifrey. The weight of responsibility for the universe is lifted from the Doctor’s shoulders, and he can go back to being a wandering iconoclast?
Cue future fun with New New Gallifrey?
28 January 2013 at 21:25 #2055@jimthefish those are lovely – very “old skool” feel to them!
I do adore the fan creativity thread.
I might have to blow a rasberry tho’ – not at you I hasten to add – just to see whether our phase-shifted moderator @phaseshift shows up to tick me off 🙂
27 January 2013 at 17:32 #2005Dammit – I can’t resist… Hmmn well this has exercised my mind. You say that River in The Impossible Astronaut knew how it would all play out, including Tesselecta Doctor.
I’m not so sure. River tries to shoot the astronaut and then when her shots have no effect she murmurs “Of course not” but to herself – she’s not putting on a show for the others here. So the first time it plays out, I don’t think she knows for sure that the astronaut is her. She knows she is in the Stormcage for killing the Doctor, but she doesn’t know how it happened.
In The Wedding of River Song this dialogue, about River not being able to remember the murder, indicates that in “Version 1 of the Doctor’s Death” River had no memory of herself in the suit:
River: I tried to fight it but I can’t. It’s too strong.
The Doctor: I know. It’s okay. This is where I die. This is a fixed point. This must happen—this always happens. Don’t worry. You won’t even remember this. Look over there.River: It’s me. How can I be there?
The Doctor: That’s you from the future. Serving time for a murder you probably can’t remember. My murder.
River: Why would you do that? Make me watch?
The Doctor: So that you know this is inevitable. And you are forgiven. Always and completely forgiven.
The thing is, because River is clever, she found a way to re-write time, so that the second time around she does not shoot the Doctor, she freezes time instead and then he has to go on a quest to undo that freeze (which is causing the universe to collapse) and in doing so he works out the Tesselecta Doctor solution.
So, the second time it happens, then the-River-shooting-the-Doctor remembers it all and promises the Doctor she will go to the Stormcage for him, to cover up his faked death.
27 January 2013 at 14:55 #1985@scaryb – I am also up to my eyeballs in work 🙁
But, as the Doctor says in Let’s Kill Hitler “You should always waste time when you don’t have any…”
Just had to pop back onto the sofa to profer requested jammy dodgers, as per Emergency Protocol 11 – perhaps with hot toddy?
<mmmn that’s better – oops, hope I didn’t eat them all myself – shakes packet 🙂 >
27 January 2013 at 14:46 #1983Re-watched this episode yesterday.
I still love it. In fact, I think it deepens now we know more of the pieces of the puzzle than we did on first watch.
In particular I contemplated the loneliness and bravery of River, travelling with her parents and her husband on this adventure at points in their time-streams when only she knew what they all meant to each other. Moreover (we know now) she was forced to witness the murder of the Doctor by “the impossible astronaut”, strongly suspecting that it might be herself in the suit, given that she knew she was in the Stormcage for killing the Doctor (even if, in that time-stream, she didn’t remember the particulars). Again, she unable to share the burden of her knowledge with anyone.
Props to Kingston for carrying all that in her performance, so that it works both as a mystery and as a now-we-know delivery.
I did notice something – when Amy was reading about the Doctor’s adventures in history in the red book at the start, it mentioned that the “mysterious Doctor” was borne aloft in his escape from the Tower of London by a “shining sphere” not by a blue box. The make-shift TARDIS which, we now now, the Doctor and IDRIS built in The Doctor’s Wife resembled a shining sphere.
This happily feeds into the resurrection of the “two Doctors” theory once again and links this Idris TARDIS perhaps to the Lodger TARDIS/ abandoned Silent-inhabited TARDIS…
Mr. Hyde (or perhaps Ganger) Doctor alert! <adjusts blue and red bow-ties with hauteur>
26 January 2013 at 15:57 #1957This is a message from Moffat to Dr. Who fans on Tumblr, but I’m sure he’s talking to us too:
“We hope to fuel your mad ideas yet more, with some more of our mad ideas…”
http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/19912114889/dear-tumblr-moffat-knows-what-youre-doing-and
Contemporary sci-fic/ fantasy genre television fiction is essentially a conversation of mad ideas between writers/ the totality of the show’s creatives (because actors, directors and editors contribute to the finished creative work) and their creative fans.
Welcome to the conversation!
25 January 2013 at 20:00 #1939@craig – I echo @scaryb – thanks for the link.
@bluesqueakpip Undoubtedly significant! Those egg references from the five “blockbuster” episodes were going to go somewhere…
To go back to @phaseshift‘s idea that Clara is a computer virus created by the Doctor, @blenkinsopthebrave and I were wondering whether she might be a “patch” for fixing whatever code error crept in during the Big Bang reboot. Perhaps she is an “Easter egg” in computer terms, a hidden piece of coding whose purpose is discoverable by those who can decrypt the puzzle and reveal the “egg”,
25 January 2013 at 19:49 #1937Well who can resist the post notification ” @SallySparrow on the sofa ” ! 🙂
Hello @SallySparrow ! Yes @craig our Overlord is definitely awesome.
We need a Fish Tank and an Aviary next as spaces I think – still makes me smile how many fish and bird themed noms de plume our corner of the Whoniverse has spawned…
24 January 2013 at 21:32 #1873@craig – yes I heard the Jame Naughtie item and it made me smile – definitely us! 🙂
Although, actually we wouldn’t bother with letters, we’d just mine the inner meanings of apparent discontinuities for spiraling clues to infinity…
23 January 2013 at 18:42 #1849@janetteb said, over in the Vincent and the Doctor thread…
Or, or, your last comment inspires another idea, maybe it is all the work of the Time Lords from beyond the time lock, manipulating those on the other side to destroy the Dr before they make their triumphant return. Though personally I would be sorry to see the Time Lords portrayed as evil. Snobbish, arrogant, inflexible yes but evil no. I see them more as “lawful good”, which makes them rather hard to live with.
I think we have already seen the Time Lords depicted as “evil”, in The End of Time (where Timothy Dalton played Rassilon). Deciding to become beings of pure consciousness at the expense of time itself, and all other beings in the universe, is pretty evil – it’s genocide of the universe basically – and it of course “justifies” the Doctor’s “genocide” of the Time Lords (although actually they are just locked in a Time Lock). The desperation of an endless time war with the Daleks pushed Time Lord society to a point where it was willing to consider a “final solution”.
I found that story problematic for a number of reasons. Tennant’s Doctor was getting overwrought by that stage and (as I’ve said elsewhere) Sims doesn’t do it for me as the Master.
So yes, I feel certain that the Time Lords will reappear, most probably in the 50th Anniversary year as they are part of the Doctor’s “origin” story.
What I would have liked more exploration of re The End of Time was the Time Lords side of the story. The depiction of the Time Lord vote on Rassilon’s proposal was worthy of further narrative – whispered politicking in corridors on Gallifrey, the agonies of a few “moral” Time Lords who dared to campaign openly against Rassilon’s proposition and who were “disappeared”…
Something I do miss from past Who was a willingness to tackle political systems and choices in some of the stories over time – I’m thinking about Genesis of the Daleks. There are indeed instances of that in Nu Who, such as the future Earth-society (and sinister corporation) which created “the Flesh” or the Cat Nuns of New New Earth and their terrible experiments (both stories possibly linked) but, when storylines ran over several episodes, there was more room to deliberate world-systems before moving on.
23 January 2013 at 18:25 #1847@janetteb Yes I’m convinced the Time Lords are coming back. You’re right this should probably continue in the Season 7 Part 2 speculation – I’lll head there…
23 January 2013 at 18:22 #1845Hello @haveyoufedthefish you’ve made it over here! Extremely caffeinated or no 🙂 to join @blenkinsopthebrave‘s fourth wall crew.
This can also tie in with mine and @jimthefish ‘s “two Doctors” obsession, as perhaps the version of the Doctor who built the “Lodger TARDIS” is Ganger Doctor or Mr. Hyde to “our” Doctor’s Dr. Jekyll. I would love it if the villain of the piece (the “silence will fall” hissing voice) turned out to be the Doctor himself in “dark Doctor” form.
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