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1 April 2013 at 20:18 #3985
@craig Brill yourself 🙂
I’ve just had another River Song related thought (not that I’m obsessed or anything).
Clara has been a nanny with computer skills in the incarnations we’ve encountered, as folk above have discussed.
So – children and uploads.
I’m reminded of River tucking those kids into bed in the Library – behaviour I’ve always found rather incongruous regarding the River we came to know. But she is, at her end <sobs> in the Library, an adoptive caregiver as well as a computer upload. Is Clara a manifestation of River?
I think people have already speculated as to whether Clara could be a manifestation of CAL, haven’t they?
These things, together with that leaf in the first page of Clara’s book – a leaf in a book in the forest of the dead (the Library) where the only water is the River?
1 April 2013 at 18:45 #3977Hey Comrades, in the midst of our Who excitement can I just highly recommend BBC 3’s “In the Flesh” (zombie three parter but so much more).
All three parts have now aired and I think the first part is only available in i-player until tomorrow so I’d urge you, if you love good drama (and I know you do) to give it a go. I’ve just watched the final part and cried my eyes out. It’s beautifully written and acted.
1 April 2013 at 16:57 #396910.2 and Rose happy and detecting together would make a million shipper hearts explode with joy (they are still a much loved pairing in fandom).
Yes, Smithy as the villain I like very much. He’d be great at it.
BUT I am still in denial/ traumatised at the thought of losing him this year <sulks in a corner with a packet of jammy dodgers>.
1 April 2013 at 16:52 #3967@haveyoufedthefish – brilliant on the John Donne deduction front (I’ve loved his poetry for a long time myself). I am sure you are right!
Maybe that deduction is one to post back on The Grauniad?
This recalls the TARDIS cloister bell chiming in the room of the Doctor’s greatest fear in “The God Complex”, doesn’t it…
On the exploding TARDIS – hmmn. I’ve been pretty certain we’ll return to it because the hissing “Silence will fall” voice is still unexplained and “the Silence” remains a running theme. Of course, the person in the TARDIS when it exploded was… River. Back to wondering about a connection between Clara and River…
What if River was pregnant with Clara at the time of the explosion?
1 April 2013 at 08:59 #3939@bluesqueakpip I know, right? 🙂
Wasn’t trying to nick your great thoughts, just noting that, alas, alas and woe is me, Amelia Williams’ book lends credence to them.
This is the damn trouble with trying to post in two places!
Reposted from The Guardian:
Silence will fall..
The fall of the Eleventh (Trenzalor)..
Summer falls…The eleventh chapter of the book will make us cry…
<sobs uncontrollably at the thought of losing Smithy so soon>
OK – I need a coffee…
31 March 2013 at 22:05 #3921Oh and I forgot to mention that, on the hints and parallels front, we do of course, have a doppleganger Doctor in this very episode <cue Hitchcock-ian music>
31 March 2013 at 19:14 #3897@bluesqueakpip Interesting on the “dealing with fan critique” angle.
Sadly, I think this is an issue for women genre writers. I noticed that the rather wonderful, in my book anyway, Sera Gamble, erstwhile writer and also erstwhile showrunner on Supernatural, came in for far harsher criticism than her male colleagues on fan message boards.
@whisht Disagreement is allowed 🙂 Not a Miranda fan huh? I’m not a “must watch” fan, but I do have a soft spot for gawky and adorable, in any gender. Her brand of writing would only work on slapstick Who, as I said.  There is also Katherine Tate, of course, in a similar vein…
31 March 2013 at 18:41 #3889On the subject of women script writers and Who, discussed upstream by @jimthefish and others and mentioned by @pedant on the “Bells of St. John” thread, I think Stella Duffy’s original blog post, from which the Guardian article stemmed, had a point.
Jane Espenson is a great suggestion. Duffy herself expressed an interest and I’d be vey happy to see her have a go, remembering her sassy Serpent’s Tail detective novels from a while back as I do.
It does trouble me that Moff hasn’t, apparently, thought to invite a single woman guest writer to the 50th year, when guests such as Gaiman and Curtis have clearly worked well. I wonder if Miranda Hart would work for a more comedic-toned episode such as another return for Craig a la The Lodger or Closing Time?
31 March 2013 at 17:37 #3871@scaryb Yes – and I do find it a very difficult line to walk “squick”-wise (to use a fandom term) these days because, as @bluesqueakpip was discussing with someone over at The Guardian, an 1000 year old guy who keeps picking up young Earth women in their twenties IS sort of at the permanent edge of potentially creepy…
I think that’s why I will forever love “Amy’s Choice” as an episode, because it addresses this modern problem head-on.
Smithy, for me anyway, just manages to be hopelessly at sea enough not to be creepy in this new relationship. However (and no disrespect to Ms. Coleman, whom I love already) I do hope the future continues to bring us a variety of companions again, including older, such as Donna, and guys as well as gals etc.
I’m so very much looking forward to more of Jenny, Vastra and Strax!
31 March 2013 at 17:08 #3863Hello webmaster @craig and Happy Easter!
Did anyone else enjoy the Doctor’s bad dancing on the bijou roof-top cafe? I do love Matt Smith’s physical comedic abilities so very much.
31 March 2013 at 15:28 #3837@wolfweed Ah ha – the leaf may be another “Pond” reference, when we recall that “the only water in the forest is the River”…
Camels live in the desert, where there is no water? Last one is pure stretch…
31 March 2013 at 15:08 #3833I’m sorta feeling guilty about The Guardian. I prefer it over here, but we did “meet” over there and I’d like to keep a sort of exchange/ traffic going between here and there. There are a few folk over there who haven’t migrated here whose posts I always enjoy when they show up, like @HTPBET and @branfish.
I think I’ll post there every now and again and also every now and again (without over doing it) mention the delights of this place as a sort of “after hours” continuation watering hole…
31 March 2013 at 15:02 #3831@phaseshift – oh no, so sorry about the back! Hope it de-knots soon enough.
Is everyone else sitting comfortably?
Yes, @IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan aka @pedant we did indeed discuss Peter Pan back in the day, and I think it was @whisht who recently wondered if the audience will be asked to have a Tinkerbell/ Spartacus cross-over moment –Â “We believe in the Doctor”/ “I am the Doctor” to bring the Doctor back after he’s forgotten who he is (a la @bluesqueakpip‘s “anything which can be remembered…”) theory.
@feralcat Hello! Yes, but what is the significance of camels? Are we heading into the desert?
Agreed, I think the Doctor could taste that the leaf was somehow “time disordered”.
I can’t wait for River to show up again. Still moping a bit that Captain Jack isn’t going to be in the 50th…
31 March 2013 at 09:58 #3787@bluesqueakpip Oh it was @blenkinsopthebrave who had the fourth wall theory – although he was convinced the Kennedy assassination was involved and it might still be.
But yes, nice catch – the numbers therefore do seem to reveal that Clara IS Doctor Who (the programme) don’t they. So a play on words makes her Doctor Who the programme – the computer programme. She is the Doctor in computer programme form? A version of @phaseshift‘s ghost in the machine theory?
So all the previous incarnations of the Doctor, working together, to add in @haveyoufedthefish ‘s theory, have created a computer programme of themselves – perhaps of their future twelfth incarnation or perhaps simply a composite of the eleven so far – in Clara?
31 March 2013 at 09:52 #3785In relation to the lovely Paternoster Gang post-Demon’s run webisode which @phaseshift posted the links to and which I also saw via a link on Tumblr. All UK links have now stopped working and “removed due to a copyright claim by BBC WorldWide” appears on YouTube etc.
This article explains that the webisode is currently only availabe to view in North America http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/03/demons-run-250313230008.html
I can’t tell you how irritated I am by this.
On Tumblr Doctor Who is marketing itself to a young US audience full steam ahead. No problem with that per se – share the love – but why are we in the UK not being given access to content paid for by our license fee?
It does feel a little like being taken for granted whilst the BBC’s commercial arm pursues marketing Who abroad?
31 March 2013 at 09:28 #3779Hmmn – so page one of Clara’s book has an Autumn leaf which links in with Amelia Williams’ novel “Summer Falls”, and we know we’re going to cry at the eleventh chapter. Clara begins (her page one) when Eleven falls?
This could tie in with @bluesqueakpip‘s speculation that Clara could be the next incarnation of the Doctor…
Also, does the Doctor’s “monk period” deliberately recall the Meddling Monk and hence is a hint that the Time Lords are coming?
31 March 2013 at 00:58 #3767@Bluesueakpip – nice work on the numbers!
And @haveyoufedthefish – love the idea of the other Doctors leaving messages for Clara / Eleven in time. I missed the scarf – a re-watch is required.
Clara told her young charge (as a nanny) that it was Chapter 11 of Amy Williams’ book “Summer Falls” which would make her cry. So (although this version of Clara may not consiciously know it) she has been “reading ahead”?
In other words, she knows the Doctor’s future (buried in there somewhere).
31 March 2013 at 00:15 #3759Has anyone else been watching “The Flesh” on BBC Three? Three part zombie story? It’s really good (The Fades good). I highly recommend it – won’t spoiler except to say “partially deceased syndrome”…
30 March 2013 at 22:29 #3745“Summer Falls”, and an Autumn leaf… and Christmas was definitely the winter of the Doctor’s discontent.
Death and rebirth (as per our Easter theme)?
Clara is resurrected in this episode. Twice previously she died and this time the Doctor resurrects her. He plays the part of God. This parallels his own death and resurrection at Easter by Lake Silencio.
Did anybody see any eggs?
30 March 2013 at 21:33 #3741Two Doctors again
Yes, it’s been a long-standing obsession of mine -going all the way back to “Amy’s Choice” and the Dream Lord and the two “realities”…
Agreed that we have no way to know which Clara is the “original” and, if we are in true post-modern style, there won’t be an identifiable “original”, just a multitide of larger-than-life copies.
I need to get a closer look at the new TARDIS interior, as these seem to reflect the Doctor’s state of mind.
30 March 2013 at 21:11 #3731@jimthefish I missed your “The Great Intelligence has been Doctorised” theory. But yes – bring me dark mirrors, bring me doppleganger Doctor, bring me the Doctor as light and dark versions of the Pied Piper stealing children away, either for good or for ill.
I don’t share your grump. Maybe I’ve eaten too many magic jammy dodgers 🙂
30 March 2013 at 20:35 #3725@phaseshift – I know! And honestly, the nesting thing has really destroyed the feeling I used to have over there. I just violently dislike the consequent lack of continuity and flow.
Now why would The Great Intelligence be uploading people, particularly people with good computing skills (as Clara is only “suitable” once she’s had a computer-skills upgrade)? What is it trying to hack? The Time Lock on Gallifrey perchance?
Could Richard E. Grant/ The Great Intelligence be The Valeyard? There WAS something creepy about seeing that both today’s villainess and the Grant character at Christmas were hijacked by the Intelligence as children. We’ve seen the Eleventh Doctor “hijack” Amy and River and now Clara as children. Wow it would be wonderfully dark if Grant was a dark-mirror of the Doctor!
30 March 2013 at 20:19 #3719@chickenelly – nice to see the pipe of contemplation is in action once more!
@scaryb – hope the demo went well! Couldn’t agree more on the skulduggery of the “bedroom tax”, introduced of course, by those with more than one wing to their own homes…
Nice to see Unit making an appearance – hope we get to see the Brig’s daughter again before the year is out.
30 March 2013 at 19:42 #3707Oh and how much do I hate that you cannot edit your posts on The Guardian. I have just spelled “dystopia” incorrectly and now I am covered in shame 🙂
Thanks again to our webmaster for our comfortable home here!
30 March 2013 at 19:27 #3705Hi comrades! Well, I just posted over on Dan Martin’s thread. He wasn’t that impressed, but actually I love it. Maybe it’s the holiday spirit but it could have been subtitled “a very British romp” or “the ’60s Mon Amour” and I’m ok with that!
Jammy dodgers, the fez, a bow-tie, a new TARDIS interior with a lot of Gallifreyan symbology above the main console? Excellent.
Jenna Louise is more than the Doctor’s equal in stubborness, sass and smarts and that makes me happy too.
Richard E. Grant again – what is the Great Intelligence up to?
30 March 2013 at 15:23 #3685Right – time to go forth and get supplies before the TARDIS lands! We will be able to “live blog” here on the sofa! See some of you folks here amongst the comfy cushions later 🙂
29 March 2013 at 10:05 #3635Hi folks! Is that coffee I smell @scaryb? Mmmmmnnnnn
I’ve got so much catching up to do. I think I saw news somewhere that Barrowman has confirmed he won’t be involved in the 50th? A damn shame if true.
Re the Guardian – gods I still can’t get my head round the nesting. Isn’t nesting supposed to be snuggly with blankets?
I will definitely head over there to wave at Dan and other fish comrades before settling in here with chocolate alien eggs!
19 March 2013 at 20:28 #3309@jimthefish and @phaseshift I can confirm your deductions – I looked our friend up on the Grauniad pages once and a blog was listed called…. Truculent Sheep (it had, I might add, about three followers).
16 March 2013 at 19:55 #3219Haha I doubt VERY much I could write anything that would tempt you to watch The Vampire Diaries.
However… you know I like a challenge 🙂
I am still drowning in work alas, but a semblance of sanity will return in a couple of weeks so then you’re on!
@pedant I haven’t seen Veronica Mars but now you’ve tempted me. So many shows, so little time! I haven’t even got started on The Walking Dead yet.
I’m about to catch up on the Neverwhere radio adaptation – thanks to @bluesqueakpip for reminding me.
16 March 2013 at 19:48 #3217@phaseshift – thanks – looks good!
There’s also the 50th Trailer here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8g5BrLm7uQ&feature=player_embedded
(sorry if someone has already posted this!)
16 March 2013 at 17:18 #3213Oh sorry @jimthefish, my bad – didn’t see you’d already posted the “discovered scripts” news just upstream! That’s what comes of swimming in too many time-streams at once 🙂
16 March 2013 at 08:24 #3203Hi folks,
I found this little piece of news – some original (unused) Dr. Who scripts by Anthony Coburn (who created the TARDIS) just discovered http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-03-14/doctor-who-never-before-seen-scripts-uncovered-in-kent
Looks as if TPTB might try and incorporated them into an exhibition this year.
9 March 2013 at 15:43 #3097That IS a really great idea. It actually gave me a chill because, huge cheesy “I am Spartacus” reference or not, I think it would be a very powerful participatory tribute to the show at the 50th Anniversary.
Wow it’s SO cheesy (but in a grandiose kind of good way) that it reminds me of RTD – are you him in disguise? 🙂
Moffat – steal this idea immediately if you haven’t already planned it!
Although – is it too similar to all earth inhabitants chanting the Doctor’s name to “empower him” during Martha’s year saving the planet from the Master in “Last of the Time Lords” to get a look-in?
Naw – Moff loves repeating themes in different forms…
8 March 2013 at 19:17 #3083@chickenelly Yes – thanks for the photo links! I see the bow-tie now has spots and dots and patterns and plots and OMG I need to write a treatise on this 🙂
@phaseshift Oh I am SERIOUSLY tempted by the convention. I’ve only been to one fan convention ever and that was a Buffy one and it was hideously commercial (but anthropologically fascinating). But this – I mean – we’re not going to live to see another 50th anniversary are we? I expect demand for tickets will be tremendous. I’m going to sign up to the newsletter to keep my eye on it!
I am so desperate for Easter now – not least because my work will ease up slightly then and I will actually be able to breathe again…
28 February 2013 at 17:51 #2935@whisht Hmm – now I look more closely it’s not a cyberman is it – it’s the K1 robot from Tom Baker’s first story, right?
28 February 2013 at 17:43 #2933@phaseshift I haven’t even looked at the new profiles page. I can’t keep track of my digital footprint as it is – aargh Charlie Brooker’s Black Mirror IS right – it’s a nightmare…
Honestly, we’re not trying to get you to have a nesting rant 🙂
Yes I’ll nip over to support Dan’s blog at some point too.
I’m looking forward to his actual episode blog opening again as well. I’m sure I’ll start over there after each episode airs and then end up here in our lovely chill-out space for late night cheese and port!
I remember reading the Dalek Invasion of Earth Target novel (being too “young” to have seen the original on TV), and the Robomen were enormously chilling, far scarier than the Daleks In Manhattan human-dalek hybrids – a dark commentary on control and forced labour.
Bring on the Easter avatar celebrations @bluesqueakpip @janetteb and @whisht (is that Mary cuddling a cyberman?). @chickenelly we will have to see if any of the Doctor’s outfits warrant a revamp of the pigeon!
As for me I am going to smugly await all further iterations of the “two-doctors” theory and hop between blue-fish and red-fish personalities to match…
28 February 2013 at 12:40 #2923@jimthefish <waves at fellow fish>
Yes, I’ve been watching Black Mirror!
<SOME SPOILERS FOR BLACK MIRROR and UTOPIAÂ (although I’ll avoid twists in the tales)>
I find Charlie’s particular dystopian and self-referential vision (as in, priviledged media worker reflects on “the masses” uses of media) both darkly compelling and irritating at once. There are some good actors involved. In fact I thought Leonora Crichlow (from Being Human) was particularly good – it can’t be easy to maintain those kinds of levels of hysteria throughout shooting for a full hour’s worth of drama!
My irritation stems from the fact that all Brooker’s scenarios comment on media manipulation and political vacuity, but they offer a world without escape from either on a repeat-meme loop.
However, I infinitely preferred Black Mirror to Utopia. I disliked Utopia quite intensely because it combined stunning cinematography with shock-violence and a lack of character development. I just couldn’t care about the people, or rather, the narrative didn’t give me enough time to care about them before it began torturing them for visual effect.
However sardonic Black Mirror is, the main characters, I have to hand it to Charlie, are written with empathy.
JuniperFish over and out!
24 February 2013 at 15:23 #2879<waves> Yes, RIP Ray Cusick – single best use of a sink plunger in the history of civilisation.
Thanks for the link @scaryb – I saw Mark Ravenhill’s first play “Shopping and F****ing” many years ago and was not impressed by the bleak nihilism and deliberated shock-for-shock’s-sake, but, he’s probably matured since 🙂
24 February 2013 at 15:13 #2875Hi everyone 🙂
That made me smile @phaseshift – I miss Dr. Who Confidential and the behind-the-scenes glimpses.
Adding my congrats @miapatrick – you deserve it.
I went into a shop on my way home on Friday evening and it was all decked out in fluffy chickens and Easter chocolate eggs (already) and all I could think was – Dr. Who is coming back!
23 February 2013 at 11:29 #2849LindaLee meets Freema Agyeman – Linda Lee interviews the former companion…
http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/43499715460/four-year-old-doctor-who-fan-lindalee-rose
[crikey she’s sweet but look at all those cameras – I hope fame doesn’t ruin her 🙂 ]
18 February 2013 at 11:29 #2739Hi @blenkinsopthebrave and @janetteb – I’ve posted over there and flown the flag for our little haven too.
I don’t see the two spaces as competing but as complementary. It’s rather like discussing Dr. Who in a noisy bar over there and more like discussing Dr. Who on the sofa with a bunch of friends over here 🙂 Both can be fun.
I must check out the BFI website – there are talks and screenings – exciting!
16 February 2013 at 16:59 #2709Well this is the episode that launched the delightful Jenny and Vastra and it was positive feedback from the fan community, I’m certain, that led Moffat to bring them back for more as the Paternoster gang. I would so very much like them to travel in the TARDIS for at least a couple of adventures too.
It goes without saying that Vastra is majestic; a fighter and a thinker, a real swashbuckling adventurer. Jenny I really adore, because what could be braver than defying several of the prohibitions of your era at once to say “yes” to a partnership with a lizard woman from the dawn of time? I would love to see some further character exploration unfold for her (although I suspect that will be left up to us in fan-fiction).
This was also the episode which asked explicitly – is the Doctor a “good man”? He very clearly tells us (and Madame Kovarian) that he is not, that he has “so many rules” to try and keep himself in check.
This is, indeed, an episode I hope desperately we will be returning to, thread-wise, to find out more about the Omega insignia and who Kovarian and the Silence are working for/ with. I am also holding out for more of the “dark Doctor” glimpsed here, the one who gratuitously blew up a Cyber battalion to make a point, the one who gave me chills with his Colonel Runaway speech, whether that be doppleganger Doctor or the Valeyard or the Trickster or simply further-into-the-future Doctor.
Finally, this was the episode where we learned that the Doctor can speak “baby”, with adorable results, and where River at last revealed her Pond affiliations. So yes, very many things to recommend this.
@phaseshift – agreed on the hilarity of the S-E-X scene 🙂 Matt Smith is always superb but he shone so much in this episode – in that speech, then the Colonel Runaway speech, then his final confrontation with River (where he slipped from dangerous to giddy).
15 February 2013 at 18:09 #2685With The Master and Ming the Merciless as moderators the trolls will not be a problem. Ha ha ha! [Twirls moustache]
Too right! 🙂 @craig and @phaseshift !
Yes – a pretty interesting development over at The Guardian. Someone has been doing market research on our blog!
I say let’s interact over there and over here and mention our wonderful Who-haven occasionally and not treat them as competition but as interesting interactive spaces.
We have a nicer sofa tho’!
<Waves at everyone> work has been absolutely slaying me of late but I’ll drop back in and catch up at some point over the weekend (in between more work)
La Juniperfish
10 February 2013 at 14:01 #2593Thanks @craig 🙂 Yes, that was fun. I vote for Fiona Shaw (who isn’t on the list).
Check out this lovely piece of Fan-Video by MetalPandaAlex on YouTube. It’s sepia line-drawing credits for Jenny and Vastra’s adventures as Watson and Holmes:
6 February 2013 at 18:38 #2439@rob – oh brainstorm away in this thread I say – as much as this little corner of the Whoniverse is “public” 🙂
Unless you have some surefire scheme I doubt our fan ideas, however glorious, will go on to make millions?!
What did you have in mind?
Personally I’d like a “foe” of great moral ambiguity – a people who have done terrible things and yet are composers of some of the most beautiful music in the universe, as for instance…
6 February 2013 at 18:32 #2435Swiftly passing by the sofa to remark that the blog is looking fine!
Seems to be buzzing with all sorts of good-stuff crazy theories and cameraderie…
All hail the Blogmeister @craig and what a fun 50th year it’s going to be!
xx to all,
TheJFish
3 February 2013 at 21:19 #2359@scaryb I am a bit evil 🙂 (good evil, naturally)
[follows on from another thread rather than apropos of nothing!]
Why is it Monday tomorrow? I desperately need a time machine so I can fit everything I need to do into an impossibly small space that happily turns out to be bigger in the inside <sulks>
3 February 2013 at 21:15 #2357@miapatrick – nice post, and good to “see” you in this wee corner of the Whoniverse again <waves>
I didn’t think any Doctor would ever be able to live up to “mine” (Tom Baker) but Matt Smith is now equally beloved.
Yes, like you, I thought Tennant was great at the time (wished Ecclestone had stayed for longer as his take was very intriguing) but Smithy didn’t take long to blow right past him in my affections.
I think you’ve put your finger on why I can’t quite roll with comrades @jimthefish and @bluesqueakpip‘s “total reset for the 50th” theory. By connecting Smithy to the history of Dr. Who, newer fans, as you’ve demonstrated, get pulled into that history (and, not to be too cynical about it, but also potentially into all that lovely “historical” merchandise) 🙂
3 February 2013 at 16:05 #2351@whisht – I hadn’t come across Oswin as “I snow” before – love your theory that the GI could have been the one responsible for the exploding TARDIS (and therefore presumably the “silence will fall” hiss?).
What would connect the Great Intelligence to the Silence or indeed to silence? Any ideas anyone? Is its other name “The Great Bringer of Mute-ness”?
Clara as bait is also a nice idea. She keeps dying to intrigue the Doctor (who also likes a pretty face)Â so that he will follow her trail like breadcrumbs until… OR, maybe she is a double agent “Run you clever boy, and remember…” being a coded warning.
Now, does the GI like green eggs and ham, soufles, or other egg-baked goods so we can make another tenuous connection? 🙂
2 February 2013 at 11:56 #2295@rob Clara as the Master’s Idris is a fantastic idea and if it turns out she isn’t, then a Who writer in the future should definitely run with this as an arc plot, maybe even much further ahead, say for the next incarnation of the Doctor (noooooooooooooooooooo Matt, don’t leave us!)
A companion who really breaks the Doctor’s hearts as the result of a betrayal would be an excellent story. Â
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