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Hi all, new member here. Just thought I would introduce myself.

I first started watching Who about 2 years ago. 9 was my first Doctor. I was immediately hooked. I was completely fascinated by the character of the  Doctor. Here you had a hero who was really complex and layered and who faced some difficult situations. And I loved the added element of the companion and the dynamic between them and the Doctor.

I have read that many have fond memories watching Doctor Who as youngsters. Being a fan from across the pond I didn’t have that opportunity. When I was young my family and I would watch Star Trek:TNG. That was where my love of Sci-fi started, and my appreciation of a good fan community. So I was really excited to see that this show that I was completely in love with had so many other people that love it too.

I was really glad to find this community too. I love a good friendly debate and I love reading other people’s perspective on things. I really must commend this community on keeping the atmosphere so positive. I’m looking forward to the future of Who and reading all the possible bonkers theories as well. 😉

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@purofilion @bfinch Love the debate, you both make good points. Just wanted to point out one thing. 12 also changed the parameters of his relationship with Clara. Whereas we see 11 perfectly willing to pose as her boyfriend to her family at Christmas, 12 soon tells her “I’m not your boyfriend”. So from the Doctor’s perspective what changed? We have established that from Clara’s perspective he goes from young looking to older looking, but that wasn’t really the only thing that changed. The Doctor spent hundreds of years on Trenzalor too. He regenerated. Who he was changed just as much as how he looked. I’m just saying that I don’t think it’s fair to put everything on Clara. I think they both contributed to the change in their relationship.

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@mudlark Loved your insight on the cybermen in the mausoleum. I didn’t pick that up but it totally makes sense. You also mentioned something about the second shower of seeded rain. I thought Missy said that was going to kill the living humans and turn them into cybermen also so the Doctor would have a whole planet of cybermen army. That was why it was so important Danny stop the second rain. He literally saved the whole planet. Also considering that Missy must know how the Doctor feels about Earth and about humans her plan to wipe out the competition so to speak fits right in with what you were saying about her need of an equal to appreciate her. And her being a psychopath she probably didn’t consider that the Doctor’s care for people would stop him from accepting what she probably considered the perfect gift.

 

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@arbutus I also had a laugh at the “Queen, that would be good too.” comment at the end. But it also left me a little worried that SM is hinting at a future gender change for the Doctor. But maybe it was a reference to the Master turned Mistress. I’m going to choose to believe the latter.

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@bluesqueekpip I don’t really think that we can compare the boy’s return to a teleport. CAL stored the original body and brought it back later. This is not what Missy was doing. She took the consciousness and left the body to be buried or cremated etc. How can you bring back something that you didn’t store? I do agree that’s it’s like a perverted sort of resurrection. She needed minds for the cyberbodies she was creating. There was nothing to guarantee that the mind that was downloaded into the cyberman matched the body that was used to create said cyberman. I think Danny’s mind went into his same body because he was so recently deceased. And it made for a better story. A few people have mentioned that the brigadier’s body didn’t look like it would fit into the cyberman. Well who’s to say it was his body used to make that cyberman?

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@geoffers re: returning from the nethersphere. Perhaps when the nethersphere up loads the minds it stores the DNA as well. Or it uses information stored in the mind to construct the physical appearance. Surely we all have information about our physical appearance in our memories. Of course the second theory would not necessarily lead to a perfect replication of the body. I’m theorizing based on the assumption that the Afghani boy’s physical body was remade since surely his body that died was no longer in tact. Since we have established that the cybermen were using nanotech to make new cybermen perhaps the nanites could also construct a human body.

This discussion has inspired me to propose a new bonkers theory. We have established that it is possible for a stored mind to reenter the physical world, to live again. I predict that in the next season the Doctor will use this tech to bring back River Song from the data core and she will be his new companion. Whether or not they are still married will be a topic of discussion, since it’s til death do us part and technically she died. They marry again and River becomes wife number 3 and number 5. And this will later lead to the revelation that Clara is in fact the daughter of 12 and River and for reasons of the preservation of the time line was left with the human couple that she believed to be her parents.

Have I gone too far?

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@cmbwhovian I think Missy brought the Doctor and Clara together just so she could have some influence over him, to feel like she’s in control. With her history with the Doctor she would have known what qualities would appeal to him in a companion. And maybe what qualities this companion would bring out in him. And since she wasn’t ready to reveal herself to him yet, she wanted to have some control, to feel connected to him through Clara.

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Okay so, so many things to process in this episode. For me the moment that gave me all kinds of feels was when Clara was talking to cyber Danny before she knew who he was and in that speech about the Doctor she says he is “the one man I will never ever lie to”. First of all, super super hurtful to Danny because that lying has been the biggest problem in their relationship. The first time I watched at the end where her and the Doctor are saying goodbye I thought, well there’s another thing she lied about. But on re- watching that scene she doesn’t really lie to him, he assumes he knows what she is going to say and she just doesn’t correct him. He is the one who outright lies to her.  But she starts out by saying “There’s something I have to tell you and it’s not good news”. First I thought she was going to tell him she’s dying, but now I think she was going to tell him she’s pregnant with Danny’s baby and that’s why she won’t be traveling with him any more. And that’s how we still get Orson.

Also super sad about Osgood. Just when I was thinking ‘ there’s the next companion ‘.

And I found it almost surreal that during the lead in to the Christmas special the voice through the door was saying just what I and probably many viewers were thinking. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Clara yet. Or Missy….

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Another thought, the Nethersphere even looks like a Toclafane. Small floaty sphere thing. Hmmmm

 

 

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So I was thinking about the three words in this episode. The master/mistress is using human’s natural fear of death and the unknown to manipulate them to his/her own ends. And this is not the first time he’s done that. Remember the Toclafane. He basically did the same thing to them.These were humans at the end of the universe that were searching for utopia or paradise. Sounds a lot like the theme for this season doesn’t it? It’s not clear if he regressed them to a child like state or if they did it to themselves and he just came in and took advantage of the situation but he turned them into his weapons to carry out his evil plan. Here he/she is doing the same thing. It does seem highly likely that the work of Dr Skarosa (you can’t tell me that isn’t the female version of Skaro) is fiction created to get bodies for the Cybermen army Missy is trying to build. Some how Missy’s plan seems to involve Clara, she needs her somehow. I would bet money that she staged Danny’s “death” to use him as a bargaining chip for some aspect of her plan. We the audience have seen no visual confirmation that he truly died which you would expect with a true character death. I’m interested to see what Missy’s end game is, obviously she doesn’t want an army of Cybermen just because it’s cool. I just hope it’s a little more imaginative than take over the world.

On another note, nothing has been mentioned about the drums. It seems plausible that since they were sent by Rasillion, they stopped at the resolution of the Master’s last appearance. I would like to hear some discussion of that in the next episode since they were such a huge part of the Master’s character. What is it like if she really doesn’t hear them anymore? What drives and motivates her now? Is she still crazy or just evil without them? Truly can’t wait til Saturday!

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I may be the only person to have noticed this, but right after the group of wolves that was chasing Maeve jump the fence they run right past a red telephone box in the trees. Looks just like the one in a certain poster for this season behind Missy. The same red telephone box that had everyone speculating that Missy is a Time Lord. Honestly seeing that was the most exciting thing in this episode for me. It was a perfectly nice episode, but nothing that will really be remembered.

@papermoon Orson had the toy solder. He’s not another Danny but was suggested in that episode to be the grandchild of Clara and Danny. I think that’s why Clara makes such an effort with Danny on their date even though it went so horribly, because she had a sign that they end up together.

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