Doctor Who News (2)
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11 October 2013 at 00:49 #1820411 October 2013 at 00:50 #1820511 October 2013 at 00:52 #1820611 October 2013 at 00:54 #1820711 October 2013 at 00:56 #18208
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@htpbdet Hope you’re enjoying this as much as we are. I think they couldn’t have wrapped up a better get well soon present for you. So, do it! (get well soon)
(downloading… computer going sloooo..oo..ow)
*with apologies to @blenkinsopthebrave11 October 2013 at 01:16 #18213
And before ANYONE starts to moan about having to pay for them – just shut it, right!! 😉
The quality of Web of Fear in particular looks AMAZING! I presume the BBC and/or Philip Morris or whoever had to hand over cash for these films. And all the antsy and ARSEy online activity only serves to hammer home the potential market value of old DW. You’re not negotiating from a position of strength here. Plus you’ve got all the nonWho general public who will go – “You paid WHAT (of OUR licence fee) for 9 episodes of a 46 year old black & white kids science fiction show???!!” (But they’re probably not as bad as the fans with large ARSE)
And I’d imagine restoration takes a while. But I do hope they broadcast them as well. That’d be a nice gesture. I reckon most people who are interested will download and/or get the eventual DVD as well.
Now… if I can just find where itunes has put the files on my computer (dammit! I’ve only just got the hang of buying music). Still, there’s a lovely warm comforting tingly glow about knowing that somewhere on my computer is either 9 or 10 (why does itunes say there’s 10 episodes..?!) of prime Troughton DW. That’s a whole 3 months worth (Dec-Mar) in old money (as we used to say).11 October 2013 at 01:20 #18214
@scaryb – the BBC already had one episode in archive. So they’ve found nine, you’ve got ten.11 October 2013 at 01:33 #18215
@bluesqueakpip Thanks – I’m all in a tizz! Did they not have 2 in archive tho…? There was epi 3 from Enemy and Epi 1 from Web… I should have downloaded 11 surely..? (Or is it 12 – is there a recon for epi 3 of Web? *confused*) Oh well, I’ll find out when I when I find them. You happy?11 October 2013 at 01:37 #18216
@scaryb – Very happy. Especially happy about Web of Fear – we can live with one episode still missing; the DVD release isn’t until February, which raises hope that they’re planning an animation.11 October 2013 at 02:00 #18218
Ok, worked it out – itunes – you get Enemy – 6 episodes plus a trailer and Web is 5 plus episode 3 as stills and audio. Which is 13. Not 9. Or 10! (@Bluesqueakpip Some of the recent animations have been pretty good eg the one for epi 4 of Tenth Planet, so yup, fingers x’d)
*scratches head in happy bemusement and heads to Rose and Crown for a nightcap*11 October 2013 at 02:00 #18219
“Pyramid” clip from the recently discovered ‘The Web Of Fear’
May contain ‘Spoilers’…11 October 2013 at 02:22 #18220
Enemy of the world DVD available November 22nd
The Web of Fear DVD available 24th February 201411 October 2013 at 09:41 #18231thommck @thommck
Any news on whether Clara can be spotted in any of the newly discovered episodes 🙂11 October 2013 at 11:25 #18242Anonymous @
Just been reading comments on the ‘Have your Say’ section at BBC News. A few ‘who cares’ comments but most seem ok with TWoF and TEotP being available on-line but feel that, as BBC programs, they should be on iPlayer not iTunes.11 October 2013 at 11:43 #18243
@fatmaninabox – and, as someone noted last night, if they’d put them on iPlayers there’d be people complaining about the massive waste of people’s licence fee in remastering these programmes that nobody wants to watch.
They can’t win. That said; programmes were found in Nigeria, therefore they’d been sold overseas, therefore it was probably BBC Worldwide’s remit from the get-go. I doubt Philip Morris goes trawling round Nigerian relay stations for the sheer fun of it, so he’d want to be paid – and quite possibly the Nigerian TV channel wanted paying too. After all, they had legitimately bought those tapes, had stored them so well that they survived – and now they turn out to be valuable. It’s like rolling up to the Antiques Roadshow and being told that your granny’s old painting, that you’ve carefully looked after, is actually a Turner.
Then you’re looking at the cost of remastering. Add it all together, and putting them back on air for licence payers probably wasn’t an option.
Sadly, I’m going to have to wait until I’m paid to get the iPlayer copies. But this is as nothing to the thought that I can now look forward to watching Web of Fear. 😀11 October 2013 at 12:27 #18245PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
Yeah, I think it’s important to realise we’re probably getting a very simplified story of a much more complicated scenario. Philip Morris is a professional archive hunter and as Mark Gatiss said in his intro yesterday “dares to tread” in what can be hostile territories. As a middle man for Worldwide, I’m sure he’s able to grease the appropriate palms in a country that regularly features highly on the UNs own appraisals of general corruption, and make inroads with people who Worldwide themselves probably wouldn’t want to be seen dealing with.
Fundamentally – money will have changed hands I’m sure, and this is going to be a problem for BBC home to justify. Thankfully, with Worldwide as a separate commercial entity they have more freedom, but it’s always going to be based on a business case and profit. They exist really to exploit the BBCs heritage and return money to their shareholders (the BBC).
Some nice audio clips from the event embedded in this write up by @danmartin on Buzzfeed11 October 2013 at 13:04 #18248FishComBobulated @fishcombobulated
@phaseshift – But because the BBC has certain clever rights to this footage, they stand to make a more than substantial amount of money by slowly releasing the lost eps on DVD and digital downloads. This will create a relatively huge influx of money for them (which sadly won’t be in part funneled to some degree back into the nudget for new Who over the coming years, from what I understand of the profit redistribution system in place.11 October 2013 at 13:37 #18254Anonymous @
I don’t think I’ll be downloading them from iTunes. I’ll wait for the DVD rather than be dragged into Cupertino’s walled garden.
It is a tricky situation for the Beeb and money will definitely have changed hands so they have to be very careful, especially at the moment. I imagine that they’ve gone with iTunes because it allows them to get them out there for sale in anniversary year and I really don’t blame them for that.
However, I don’t think that that should preclude the shows from being put on iPlayer for a week or being shown on one of the channels. I can see the argument that the licence fee payers of the 1960s were the ones who paid for these stories and have already seen them but it also seems a bit of a mean-spirited and mealy-mouthed defence also. I don’t think a little magnanimity in anniversary year would have killed the Beeb. It does make me wonder whether Apple insisted on exclusivity as a condition for hosting the episodes and if they did, I’m not sure it’s a demand that the Beeb should have acceded to.
And on a more general note, I don’t think it’s automatically ARSE to criticise the Beeb or the production team for the way they’re handling the anniversary. It’s ARSE to expect preferential treatment or for the show or its presentation to take special consideration of the whims and wants of fans (including us), but that doesn’t mean that people should be afraid to challenge what they think are questionable decisions or the way that the Beeb to date seems to have treated the anniversary as a bumper marketing opportunity rather than just a legitimate cause for celebration.
I think we should be careful that we don’t create our very own ‘weasel word’ to neuter dissent or challenge, in the same way that PROs now use ‘disappointed’ and ‘offended’ and ‘bullied’ and sometimes even ‘troll’ as a means to control or manipulate the online narrative. There’s enough of that crap out there as it is without us adding to it.
In terms of the episodes themselves, very excited about The Web of Fear which is another one of my formative Who stories but not as bothered by Enemy of the World which has to count as one of my least favourite Troughton stories.11 October 2013 at 13:54 #18256
@jimthefish – we don’t know that they’re not going to go on iPlayer after an initial ‘licence’ period. The BBC frequently shows stuff that’s also available on iTunes.
But I suspect that they need their money back. Quickly. That might be the reason for the slight undercurrent of ‘fans made this more difficult for us’ – that the rumours and excitement made it horribly obvious that these were extremely valuable tapes. And that the rumours also meant that BBC might have found itself competing with someone else who was offering a lot of money.11 October 2013 at 13:55 #18257Anonymous @
@bluesqueakpip — yes, I think you’re almost certainly right with all of that…11 October 2013 at 13:59 #18258thommck @thommck
As the BBC Director General mentioned a few days ago, the BBC will soon enable people to buy programmes directly from iPlayer, that way they don’t need to pay Apple their 30% of the download cost (although I’m not sure if that announcement would include archive shows?)
In the meantime, iTunes is the most popular and established video distribution platform enabling a way for fans to get these episodes immediately. I don’t really understand why there is such a fuss about it? The BBC actually made the right choice for once!
In 10 years time people will laugh at conversations about how we managed our video libraries. I imagine that people will just have access to absolutely any video ever digitised for about £10 per month as part of an “Entertainment” subscription.
One question I was wondering about. Now the episodes are going to all start being over 50 years old, does that make the copyright go into the public domain or am I getting confused with old laws? :-S11 October 2013 at 14:09 #18259
@thommck – copyright for a recorded dramatic performance rests with the actors, directors and writers who created the performance/script. If the contract doesn’t specify ‘rights in perpetuity’ (and every union going will tell you NOT to sign such a contract), then you have rights in that performance for as long as you live. Thereafter, your heirs will have rights for a legally specified period (I forget how long that one is).
As long as any of the original actors/directors/writers are alive, Who is still in copyright.11 October 2013 at 14:15 #1826011 October 2013 at 14:46 #18262
As someone mentioned above – we don’t have the full story on this. I can be as ARSEy as the best of em (see responses to @jimthefish‘s blog rant) but I’m actually fairly sympathetic on the missing/(now found!!) stories. BBC’s iplayer couldn’t handle the demand and itunes is probably the biggest worldwide platform (and that’s from someone who’s not a big itunes fan)
There are 4 episodes currently in itunes top 10 (TV shows) – again that’s an international platform.
The youtube trailers are on 13,000 and 16,000 views.
By putting an embargo on letting the story out in the press they made sure it’s on Sky, front page of the Mirror (and several other papers I believe) and all the main UK media cover it as a major news story.
As @bluesqueakpip mentioned there must have been a fair amount of cash involved just to make this happen, which has to be justified to the BBC licence payers). Ian Levine for example, claims he spent £500/episode back in the 70s.
And it’s worth comparing the new clips to what we had before in terms of quality – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujVrvA3GMY
I came across a clip where they showed the found episodes with the remastered version side by side with the state it was in when they found it, which was illuminating… but I can’t find it now). There’s been a lot of work gone into restoring these. For all they were in “good condition considering” they were still dusty, scratchy, the film was fragile.
@jimthefish and other Target readers – I understand the gap between your imaginations and what was technically possible in 60s TV, but at least with these you can compare it with the closest possible to what actually went out, albeit from an older person perspective. This is top quality Dr Who – Web was directed by Camfield – if you don’t like it at least you know you’ve given it a fair chance.
@thommck – re adding Clara into the episodes – LMAO – was just thinking about that11 October 2013 at 14:51 #18263
Also this annoncement, for those of us near the northern capital, Edinburgh’s Filmhouse says it’s teamed up with the BFI and is screening a “once lost 60s episode of Dr Who” at beginning of December
Ah, now if only someone would track down the missing Francie & Josie episodes – that would really be a cause for celebration!11 October 2013 at 14:52 #18264Anonymous @
What @scaryb said.
And to be fair who isn’t today feeling a little thrill of pride at seeing Troughton on the front pages of a great many newspapers and websites?
And I have to say I do like the new DVD covers (if they’re not just fanboi mock-ups). Much nicer than the (I think) slightly over-templated ones that are currently used…11 October 2013 at 15:43 #18266
And to be fair who isn’t today feeling a little thrill of pride at seeing Troughton on the front pages of a great many newspapers and websites?
Also laughed at this apology from Northern Echo for breaking the embargo (online for 20 mins and far and away their hottest article)
Hopefully by maximising publicity (inc outwith fandom) they might just send a few more folk scurrying into their attics to see if they can unearth some DW “gold”. The more I hear about the search that uncovered these new ones the more gobsmacked I become. Gathering dust on a shelf in a TV relay station “somewhere in Nigeria” (when they were originally sent to Hong Kong) nearly 50 years after they were exported… just WOW. The search for the Key to Time was a walk in the park compared to this!11 October 2013 at 16:50 #18272
I have to agree with @jimthefish about being neutered by our own terminology. I don’t think anyone’s outraged about the itunes set up, so much as mildly disappointed.
The annoying bit is Worldwide’s attempt to justify it.
If they’d simply said ‘Would you pay the ransom?’, we’d all have had a whip-round.
I myself would have done a telethon & announced that Mr Levine was also bidding for them in competition…
It should be remembered the exclusion created by having to pay for it, for those who can’t afford it or don’t want to pay for it 2 or 3 times. (All other classic Who can be found free online, but we fans are happy to bankrupt ourselves to get nice dvds when we can).
There have been the obvious interviews on Breakfast & BBC News. Newsround was just on, & it was interesting to see what kids made of the episodes. Half of them liked them (possibly more than the new stuff) & half of them wouldn’t entertain it because it’s in B&W & they’ve got ‘funny accents’.
Something that irks me (sorry) is that the Beeb keep saying old Who is creaky, whilst new Who has ‘state of the art special effects’. Neither statement is generally true…
Nice to see that Yonko has a Troughton toy & an Ice Warrior on the CBBC desk…11 October 2013 at 17:08 #18275Anonymous @
David Tennant shares his thoughts on Patrick Troughton in a clip from Doctor Who: Revisited
From the looks of it, that was recorded during the filming of Broadchurch.11 October 2013 at 17:28 #18277
Enemy of the World is actually available from the 25th of November & both stories are actually single disc releases (which means few extras)…
There will also be special editions with artwork that will also be available as T-Shirts…
11 October 2013 at 18:38 #18280Arkleseizure @arkleseizure
Okay, I’ve given in to temptation, and The Enemy of the World is now resident in my iPad (so many years on a shelf in Nigeria, and suddenly it’s everywhere: makes you think, huh?)
I’m going on a train journey around Europe next week, so I’m desperately refraining from watching until then. I share the common frustration about the iTunes deal, but I have to admit it’s worked out pretty well for me.
As for The Web of Fear, I’m more than confident that the animated part 3 is a when, not an if, so I’ll hold out for that. With the animated completion of the Ice Warriors, it would mean eighteen episodes of season five that could be watched back-to-back: isn’t that just bloody fantastic?11 October 2013 at 19:01 #18293
Peter Purves on missing episodes on The One Show NOW!12 October 2013 at 02:08 #18309
The One Show Segment on Doctor Who’s Missing Episodes
12 October 2013 at 12:14 #18325janetteB @janetteb
My keyboard was throwing a hissey fit yesterday and wouldn’t let me post (nothing to do with the glass of white it consumed a few days before I am certain). I was naturally thrilled by the news. There are so few Troughton stories left than any find is wonderful news, to have found a complete story is beyond hope. It would have been nice for the BBC to have shown these stories, especially in this anniverary year. The ABC has been repeating all the old stories again. They showed all the extant episodes last decade. I was amazed to read that these episodes were never repeated on U.K. tv when we got to see them repeated every year. I am certain that the BBC will recoup the costs of acquiring these with or without showing them on free to air tv.
I hope that @htpbdet is enjoying re watching these long lost stories and I also hope that we hear from him soon.
Janette12 October 2013 at 13:01 #18326Anonymous @
@janetteb – you lucky Ozzers! It is decidedly strange how both Australia and America have been blessed with plenty of ‘classic’ ie. BG Who episodes, but here in Britain, it’s a whole ‘nother ball game.
But I’m chuffed that we have two Troughton stories available now. I simply cannot believe that there aren’t more, so I’ll live in a cloud of positive hope that more heretofore ‘lost episodes’ will be revealed and made available.12 October 2013 at 23:02 #18378Anonymous @
From HTPBDET’s blog…
1. There are more episodes to come. Definitely.
A few months ago, when Ian Levine accepted that rumours of re-discovered episodes were most likely true, he implied that, according to his ‘sources’, whilst it wasn’t all of them as had been suggested, it was certainly a considerable amount, i.e more than 9.
I’m really puzzled by the BBC’s attitude. For months they’ve been more or less denying that anything’s been found which we now know wasn’t the case. If more have been found ( while I don’t take Levine at his word, I’ve no reason to doubt @htpbdet ) why, instead of all the denials, haven’t they just issued an announcement along the lines of “We have found X amount of episodes thought lost. Of the find, TEotP and TWoF were in the best condition so we’ll be restoring those first and releasing them. The others, whilst recoverable, aren’t is as good condition and will take longer to restore but will hopefully be released during 2014”.
The BBC, as we know, don’t like leaks. A statement like this would surely prevent the chance of certain, nefarious characters (naming no names) from leaking the news. And we all know that, given the opportunity ‘this person’ would.
I’ve just been chatting to a friend of mine who used to work at the BBC Pebble Mill Studios (Birmingham) in Marketing/Promotion and even he’s perplexed by their behaviour. Constantly lying about what has/hasn’t been found is just making them look untrustworthy and, given recent scandals, that’s really not a good move.12 October 2013 at 23:19 #18379
@fatmaninabox – if you’ve heard about the Tenth Planet 4 hoax, you’ll know why the BBC can be simultaneously buzzing with stories of ‘more episodes’ and denying that they’ve found anything.
As I recall, the ‘denials’ generally consist of the Press Office saying ‘I know nothing’. Which they probably don’t. 🙂13 October 2013 at 01:08 #18387Anonymous @
Thanks for the info. I wasn’t aware of the hoax but just ‘googled’ it and am now fully versed. I can understand their caginess now. Sort of.
I hope no-one is under the impression that I think the BBC don’t care. Obviously they do or they wouldn’t have spent so much time and effort in tracking them down. I just wish they’d announce definite finds straight away, if only to stop a certain attention-seeking, rumour-monger from raising/dashing our hopes.
I know I’ve been a bit ARSEy towards the Beeb of late but I’m putting it down to giving up smoking last week. I decided to go ‘cold turkey’ and it’s temporarily (I hope) turned me into ‘Mr Kranky Pants’ 🙂
I’m off to watch the rest of ‘Tomb’ now. I know I really should wait till next week but I just can’t resist it any longer 🙂13 October 2013 at 09:39 #18391Anonymous @
@fatmaninabox – congratulations on giving up smoking. With the money you’ll save on not buying ciggies, might you be able to buy a train ticket to London next month? 😉13 October 2013 at 13:31 #18403
Agree the Beeb’s communications re DW have been a bit on the murky side recently – and Worldwide’s comment (reported by @craig) re “well you should’ve watched them when they first came out!” was insensitive to put it mildly. But there could be a lot of stuff ongoing under the surface/behind the scenes that we don’t know about. I think we just have to keep the faith and be patient.
Agree with @bluesqueakpip that the Publicity Dept probably don’t have the full story either. Everyone else is being very cautious – the recent denials usually went along the lines of “There’s been no episodes found in Ethiopia”. Which according to the info now released, is strictly speaking, quite true.
And with @Shazzbot – congrats on giving up the weed. We’ll put up with Mr Kranky Pants for a whle, LOL13 October 2013 at 14:41 #1841513 October 2013 at 14:49 #1841713 October 2013 at 17:09 #18428Anonymous @
Congratulations to Alex Kingston who’s been voted ‘Anglophenia’s 2013 Fan Favourite’ 🙂
The site also has a ‘thank you’ video from Ms Kingston.13 October 2013 at 17:16 #18429Anonymous @
@fatmaninabox – she is truly lovely, isn’t she?! Thanks for posting that.13 October 2013 at 17:37 #18432Anonymous @
@shazzbot – she certainly is. Can’t understand why some people loathe River so much.
Also noticed on the BBC America home page that they claim 11 ‘lost’ episodes have been found. Typo? Or have I missed something?13 October 2013 at 17:49 #18434Anonymous @13 October 2013 at 22:09 #18440Anonymous @
According to the Cheltenham Literature Festival Twitter feed, ‘The Moff’ says it’s far to early to screen NoTD trailer 😥13 October 2013 at 22:13 #1844213 October 2013 at 22:20 #18443Anonymous @
@bluesqueakpip – if I had to guess, I’d say ‘Spoilers’ 😉13 October 2013 at 22:24 #18444
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