General Open Thread – TV Shows (3)

Home Forums General General Open Thread – TV Shows (3)

This topic contains 76 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  grahamwarren 3 hours, 57 minutes ago.

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  • #70497
    nerys @nerys

    @blenkinsopthebrave I’m with you on Picard. I think what I loved most about it is that for a Star Trek series, it was beautifully restrained. The action was just enough, not relentlessly over the top the way Discovery has been (at least, for me). The characters’ nuances really shone through, in the best “show me, don’t tell me” tradition. My husband and I both loved it!

    My husband is far more familiar with Picard’s past than I, so the only drawback for me was not knowing all that Next Generation backstory. But it didn’t detract to the point where I lost the thread of the story.

    #70501
    winston @winston

    @nerys and @blenkinsopthebrave   I have not watched the last episode yet but I love this show and so does my husband or as I like to call him “my social isolation buddy”. My son gets them for us and we actually put off watching them because we don’t want it to end. We both like all the old and Next Generation Star Treks and this show makes us happy. What I like best is how Picard has changed from the strict upright Captain who always followed the prime directive to this older man who is willing to break rules to save others and do the humane thing even if it isn’t the right thing. We think when we are young that we are so cool and flexible but really I think that being flexible in thought and emotion comes with age and empathy and sympathy. I like this old Picard, fighting to right a wrong and to make a difference far more than young ,know it all Picard . He has mellowed with age like one of his wines.

    I love the Doctor because he never follows the prime directive, something I never do either.

    #70502
    janetteB @janetteb

    @winston I think there you have nailed my issue with old Star Trek and why I much prefer Picard. Like you I prefer the more rebellious (neutral good) old Jean-Luc to the lawful good younger version.

    We are about to do a re watch of Galaxy Quest, inspired by our recent discussions about Star Trek but in general are finding no more time than usual during lockdown, probably because it has made little difference to us.

    cheers

    Janette

    #70507
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Have just finished watching the new version of “Worzel Gummidge”. Loved it. Many here will remember the 1970s show with Pertwee. This version, by comparison, is very much in accord with “The Detectorists”, written, directed by, and starring–Mackenzie Crook. Both shows are about the wonder and mystery of nature. This one is a children-focused show, but one that can be appreciated by old fogies who identify with the innocence of childhood.

    There are many things I could wax lyrical about, but the one thing I will mention is the performance of Francesca Mills as Earthy Mangold. (You have to watch the show–both episodes, but especially the second to understand what I mean.)

    To cut a long story short, if you have the opportunity, watch it. It really is utterly charming.

     

    #70628

    Anyone been watching the latest series of Britain’s Got Talent?

    I think it’s quite a strong year personally, although last night’s was pretty weak. I wouldn’t begrudge the majority who have gone through so far winning.

    #70661

    Who Wants To Be A Millionaire has been fantastic this series so far. So many big wins (and a few rubbish ones). I really hope somebody wins the million at some point during Clarkson’s run, because after the calibre of some of the recent contestants that seems more likely than ever now.

    #70688

    Britain’s Got Talent was much better on Saturday. Loved the old lady on the drums!

    #70708
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Hi, just popping my head up above the hibernation parapet.

    So – I notice a lot of people on here liked Picard, but I’m currently on Episode 5 and feel as if the writers have mislaid their Prozac. Does it get any more cheerful? Any slight hint of optimism? At the moment I’m half expecting Picard to return home to discover the chateau has been torched, the Romulan bodyguards have died protecting it and the dog has been nailed to the gatepost a la Gladiator. All the characters seem to have a little sign above their heads saying ‘tragic angst delivered here’.

    Currently I vastly prefer Discovery, especially Season 2.

    #70710
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip

    Hang in there. Some old faces are going to start to appear, and the new, dark universe of Picard is going to connect with the optimism of The Next Generation.

     

    #70711
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Good to know.

    I suspect the reason I’m liking Discovery better than Picard (apart from one being straight-up action adventure and the other aspiring to drama) is that Discovery stuck to the episodic style and Picard seems to be designed for a binge-watch. Since I don’t binge-watch, the current downward curve seems blinkin’ endless.

    #70712
    winston @winston

    @bluesqueakpip   I really enjoyed Picard and I really like Discovery also. I do like the episodic style of Discovery especially for rewatching later when I can watch favourite stand alone episodes. The new style of Picard on the other hand makes me want to watch it all to solve the mysteries and finish the arc but I am not going to watch any episodes on their own. I will watch the whole series again so I don’t miss anything. Picard does get pretty exciting at the end.

    #70713
    Ant @antpage

    I love this show since i used to watch Tom Baker in the role when i was a kid in the 70’s. Ive seen all his episodes as well as all the Peter Davison, Colin Baker most of the Sylvester McCoy and all of the episodes since the reboot with Christopher Eccleston. I plan to finish the Sylvester McCoy episodes and then see all the episodes of the other Doctors before Baker. Hope they got them all found in one way or another and uploaded by the time i get there lol. I have seen some of their episodes too but not many.

    So i’m a big fan of the show and love it dearly. Thing is i haven’t been liking it recently. I have some ideas about this and i’d like to run them by you guys and see what you think.

    I haven’t been liking the Jodie Whittaker episodes. Thing is it doesn’t feel like Doctor Who. This is very disappointing for i was looking forward to seeing a female Doctor. And i think its a problem of casting. Here’s why i think that.

    THE DOCTOR

    To me the Doctor has always been an authoritative figure. He comes on the seen and says “I’m the Doctor and this is the situation and you need to do this to fix it”. That’s quite a thing to say. “I’m the Doctor”. I remember one time i had jury duty and there was a Doctor among us on the jury. When he spoke everyone listened. He pretty much lead that jury. If a Doctor shows up at a scene he commands respect cause hes a Doctor. Hes there to fix things. And “Doctor” could mean other things. Medical or the person could have a doctorate in mathematics or one of the scientific disciplines. Any way hes an authority figure. Looking at British culture and especially when this show came out in the early 60’s there was definitely this dynamic going on. And i think this dynamic has been going on till now. Sorry if this is obvious.

    JODIE WHITTAKER

    Well now we finally have a female Doctor. In the role is Jodie Whittaker. But when she shows up on the scene do you get that impression? I dont. you get this quarky, loony kind of “chick”. She doesnt seem to have a lot of gravity. So the Doctor is missing. The main character in Doctor Who is missing. Where is the Doctor? How come the show feels shallow? I feel like the Doctor has taken a long hiatus. Watching the show I feel like a child missing his parent lol.

    So I feel better casting could have fixed this. Michelle Gomez made a very good “Master”. I feel someone like her would have been a better match. Since this is the first time for a female Doctor i think they should have gone all out. A more matriarchal figure. And older women. Upper class British accent maybe. The female Doctor has got to pull off the authority of the Doctor. Who’s know? Maybe one of the dames would have done it? But Whittaker looks very young. Does not come off as a authority figure and along with the Yorkshire accent really seems ill equipped to play the “Doctor”. She plays the “kooky” funny girl too much.

    Am i wrong about this? I hope Whittaker does not reprise her role for another season. They need a new Doctor and i would like them to try another female. I’m afraid of they go male again people will think it didnt work out and who knows when they will try it again.

    So who would make a great female Doctor when Whittaker leaves?

    CHRIS CHIBNALL

    Chris Chibnall is another reason i feel its not working. Hes a good writer. But right out the gate he got the Doctor wrong with the casting of Whittaker. They worked on Broadchurch together and i’ve always thought he pushed for her to be the Doctor. Maybe i’m wrong. But this a big mistake to make. Does he really understand the Doctor? Is this the right gig for him? Producer/Writer of Doctor Who?

    The “Timeless child” episode is a good example of someone who is not right for this job. He pretty much stepped on Doctor Who with this rewriting of his entire canon origin from the beginning till now. Undermining nearly everything. Is this someone who truly loves Doctor Who? I’m really not seeing the love and respect for the character. If you dont love the show and your not inspired by it, please dont take the job. There are many, many people who love this show and want to watch Doctor Who. Not some other invention taking its place.

    FUTURE

    So who do we get to replace Chibnall for the next season? This is tough. truly tough. We were extremely fortunate to get Steven Moffat as a writer for the show. And he has proven time and time again how great a writer he is. I just saw his Dracula recently and I was blown away by it. And i didnt even know it was his till the end (BTW wouldn’t Claes Bang make a great Doctor?). He is a unique talent that even Spielberg recognized. We got very lucky. How are we gonna get another writer of his caliber? If one even exists? If he does exist is he gonna want to do Doctor Who? Will he be inspired by it like Moffat was? We are in a lot of trouble for the future of this show.

    #70714
    Shepherd @shepherd

    @antpage

    I agree with you and have expressed a lot of the same thing on other fan sites. The barriers you face come from several groups, some well-meaning and some not.

    One group is from my generation who saw Doctor Who get canceled. A new hope with the 1996 movie that hurt in so many ways and then 15 years before the reboot. You must support Doctor Who no matter what. If not it will get cancel again and no telling how long before it return or who would control it. I personally would like for Big Finish to get it from the BBC. The one place I do not want the TARDIS to materialize is Disney.

    Another group is the fans who support the power to be without question and treat anyone who question the power to be as if we don’t understand how TV is done. We don’t understand what the production team is trying to do. We are mad because they just want do it the way we want. This is a difficult group to deal with because they are true fans and really care about the show.

    The next group are supporters of the current politically correct agenda whatever it may be at the time. They believe that everything must reflect that agenda. They are Doctor Who fans but not first. They are agenda first and everything else must reflect it are they label it with phobia, ism or ist. These are the same type that have politicize everything. A bad show that reflects my world view is better than a good show that does not.

    Only haters and denials want to watch something just for the enjoyment or to get a break from the real life events.

    The next group is the one that get shows cancel because once they get what they want they move on their next target. These are the anti-fans. Anti-fans were once found only in sport.

    They are not really a fan of the team they pull for. The truth is that anti-fans dislike a team or school so much that to take part in the discussion they feel they need a team/school to pull for. They pick the team they hate arch rival, instate rival or the team that seem to beat them the most and state they are a fan of the arch rival, instate rival or the team that seem to beat them the most. They are the kind of fans who have the bumper sticker “I pull for Y team and anyone who is playing X team.”

    When that discuss, post or call in about their team they may make a taken remark about the team they say they pull for but 95% of their remarks are attacks and put downs about the other team.

    With TV shows anti-fans are fans of the show. As previous group the anti-fans are supporters of the current politically correct agenda. Unlike the previous group they are not true fans of the show. They claim to be fans as a way in. Once in they have two goals. One, to change the show to reflect their world view. Two, to drive away as many fans that does not agree with them. Once done they leave for their next target.

    #70715
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @antpage

    So who do we get to replace Chibnall for the next season? This is tough. truly tough.

    Especially tough because he’s already confirmed for the next series. Or season. So is Jodie Whittaker. Sorry about that.

    If your internal conception of the Doctor is an authority figure, then the Whittaker Doctor isn’t going to be your cup of tea – because her Doctor is experimenting with a less authoritarian, more truthful, more dare-I-say-it feminine style of leadership. And one of the funny things about the stereotypically female leadership style (participatory and team-building) is it tends to be seen as losing authority when it’s used in a male-dominated area. Such as playing a role where most actors and writers have gone with:

    “I’m the Doctor and this is the situation and you need to do this to fix it.”

    This particular thread is for TV Shows that aren’t Doctor Who, so I’ll bring in Picard – in the episodes I’ve seen to date, the production team are also playing with the idea of ‘authority’. Picard isn’t an ‘authority figure’ any more, and he clearly finds it both disconcerting and upsetting. It raises the question of whether his ‘authority’ was accepted not because people realised Picard was right, but simply because of his place in the Starfleet hierarcy.

    The point is that looking at ‘authority’ – whether through how we perceive it or through leadership styles or whether it changes when someone’s gender changes – is a perfectly valid thing for a writer to do.

    I’d go further and say that casting a woman in the role of the Doctor and then demanding that she play the part exactly like the men did is a complete waste of time; might as well not bother. Moffat, for example, didn’t demand that Michelle Gomez base her Missy on the previous Masters (I think Gomez has said she didn’t even look at the previous performances).

    He pretty much stepped on Doctor Who with this rewriting of his entire canon origin from the beginning till now.

    Since you could say that about just about every major change in Doctor Who since William Hartnell regenerated into Patrick Troughton, I’d say a willingness to rewrite canon when required is part of the Showrunner’s job description. I’d also say that the angst over the Timeless Child rewrite is a bit of a Twitterstorm – again, comparing it with other TV shows, Star Trek: Discovery rewrote canon to give Spock an entirely new foster-sister who not only has her very own show but then proceeded to rewrite half the previously accepted canon about Spock’s backstory. And the mushroom drive? Since when did Star Trek spaceships fly on mushrooms? That metaphor didn’t just extend, it achieved warp speed and visited entirely new dimensions.

    I believe Discovery’s rewriting of canon also created something of a Twitterstorm, but I enjoyed the story. 🙂

    #70716
    Shepherd @shepherd

    @antpage

    I had no problem with a female Doctor. It is the way they went about it I did not like. We older fans know the Doctor and the Master were not the only renegade/political rebel Time Lords. Hedin, Ophiuchus, Ruath, the War Lord, Borusa, Morbius, the Monk, the Rani, Dax and Salyavin to name a few.

    Rather than pushing the Transgender agenda the writer could have had the Doctor met a Time Lord who had been off Gallifrey at the time the Doctor locked Gallifrey outside of time. At the end of his last generation he would have turn over the TARDIS, his title and knowledge over to the other Time Lord. I had no problem with the other Time Lord being female, I did not care about the race nor sexual orientation. I had no problem with Jack Harkness and watched both Doctor Who and Torchwood. I had no problem with Bill. I could tended to watch Doctor Who even with the poor writing and storylines.

    I like Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor, thou should have been a Doctor. It is the companions that are the problem. First three is too many for a new Doctor. As for Chibnall I believe he has a check list of agenda items he is going to get in even if it get the show cancel. He will fine other work and we know it is never about the fans.

    #70717
    winston @winston

    @shepherd    There are many great shows featuring transgender characters and many wonderful transgender actors including Bethany Black who appeared in the Doctor Who episode “Sleep no More” but the Doctor is not one of them. The Doctor is an alien from Gallifrey, a Time Lord who can “cheat death” by regenerating. Every cell in her body dies and is replaced and anything can happen. The 9th Doctor says he could have 2 heads or no head and the 11th thought he was a girl for a second. In other words they can be male,female or something else entirely. There is no transgender agenda only a plot device to replace actors and keep our favourite show going.

    #70718
    Shepherd @shepherd

    @antpage

    We all have our likes. No one is right or wrong. If we all had the same likes the whole world would drink Tabs. Every Doctor has been different. That what helped to keep the show going so long. Look how long the original, 26 years don’t forget the 18 months lay off, and the reboot, 15 years no 2019. How many shows last as long? Fans come and go with each Doctor. Always been that way and always will be. Not right or wrong just choice. The older fans would tell fans leaving to hang in there because there will be another change.

    I have been a fan since 1977. But my Doctor Who has ended and it has nothing to do with a female Doctor. The “Timeless child” ended the Doctor Who I loved and supported longer than many of today fans have been alive. That fine with me. Unlike 1989 I have Big Finish so I can continue to enjoy Doctor Who. And the new fans, as with the reboot of Star Trek, have their Doctor Who. And if you don’t like the next Doctor hang in there will always be change.  And who knows about Chibnall will leave and the next writer will pull a Dallas.

    #70719
    Shepherd @shepherd

    Next Doctor Craig Charles or Emma Watson. Should have been the Doctor John Cleese. First female Doctor should have been Judi Dench.

    #70720
    Ant @antpage

    “Next Doctor Craig Charles or Emma Watson. Should have been the Doctor John Cleese.”

    Sorry but these are perhaps the worst suggestions for the Doctor that i have ever heard

    #70721
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @shepherd
    As @winston says, there isn’t a transgender agenda. Female actors have been taking male roles for centuries (and male actors have been taking female roles for millennia). Women have played Prospero, Hamlet and King Lear – and I promise you that I can find you examples of women playing some of those roles before the word ‘transgender’ was even coined. The Doctor isn’t transgender, just as the pregnant male in the Tsangra Conundrum wasn’t transgender. The non human characters in Doctor Who do stuff differently, that’s all, and Moffat and Chibnall between them found a way to make our Gallifreyan shape shifters able to change gender as well as bodies.

    In Star Trek they were able to get round it by placing the female Captains in different ships, but regeneration is now so firmly established that only Doctor Who can headline Doctor Who.

    Personally, I think RTD making the Doctor a genocide was a much bigger change to canon than the discovery that she may have been adopted from a non-Gallifreyan species. Especially since the Timeless Child reveal was positioned as a between-series cliffhanger – and as @blenkinsopthebrave has pointed out frequently, the Master isn’t exactly Mr Reliable Narrator. 🙂

    #70723
    grahamwarren @grahamwarren

    I’m acting as executor for a friend who has passed. There are LOTS of BBC Dr Who VHS cassettes to offload. Am I wasting my time? I haven’t got the time nor inclination to post them individually on eBay (they don’t seem to sell). Was wondering if any collectors out there want them at all. I don’t know if there’s any rare ones in amongst this lot but they go right back to include Hartnell stuff. Failing that it’s going to be landfill, which is a shame.

    Any advice gratefully received.

    #70724
    Shepherd @shepherd

    @grahamwarren I don’t feel there is much of a market out there. Copying them to DVD would take a lot of time. There are places that does that but the cost is high.

    I teach special needs and what I do with old VHS tapes is to use them for vocational tasks. This has also been a great way for family, friends and co-workers to get rid of their old VHS tapes. I have most of the Doctor Who VHSs and used them as displays before my sons took over my hobby room. If you are a Doctor Who fan shadow boxes type displays may be nice.

    There used to be used records and tapes stores that you give some money. It has been years since I dealt with ones and not sure in today’s market that are still around.

    If not contact your local school system and see if a special needs/education teacher can use them as a job skill task. Sorry I could not be more help. I just finished as executor of my parents’ will. I know this is not an easy task. I’m praying for you.

    #70727
    janetteB @janetteb

    @grahamwarren I know that locally the “opp shops,” (second hand/charity shops) take VHS videos still, around where I live anyway so that is always worth a try. I assume they are all pre-recordeds not taken from TV? I doubt you will get any money for them unless there happens to be something recorded from TV (using reel to reel I believe) in the 60s but that is unfortunately more unlikely than finding a time travelling police box that is larger on the inside on your street corner.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #70729
    Shepherd @shepherd

    @grahamwarren Jarette is correct. Goodwill will also take VHS and if you do the long form you can take them off of your taxes. Not much but something.

    #70731

    Hello all, long time no see. Sorry, I’ve been busy with my Doctor Who With The Dogs YouTube series.

    Latest Britain’s Got Talent was brilliant. So much talent in one episode. Loved Dev the singing Devil, and the Attraction-style aquatic animals performance troupe was so impressive! Going to be hard to call who wins when they can eventually do the live shows.

    @shepherd

    Next Doctor Craig Charles or Emma Watson. Should have been the Doctor John Cleese. First female Doctor should have been Judi Dench.

    I like Craig Charles but not convinced he’s Doctor material. I see him as playing more of an everyman like Craig Owens. Emma Watson seems more like companion material; great actor but sadly too famous for the BBC to afford. Judi Dench thirty years ago could have worked, but now I think she’d be a little too old to do anything physically demanding.

    #70733
    Shepherd @shepherd

    @dalekbuster523 Both Cleese and Dench would have been 90’s Doctors. My view is that if there were going to be a female Doctor it should have been done sooner and Dench should have been given the chance. As some has stated the Doctor should show up in charged. She would have been that Doctor.

    As for Craig Charles I think too many fans limits some actors to one role or role type. It is easy when you play a signature role as Craig Charles has. But watching him and seeing some of his interviews I just would like to see how he would handle the role of the Doctor. May not work. If not there is always regeneration now that the numbers are unlimited you could do a Doctor a week.

    #70734
    grahamwarren @grahamwarren

    Thanks for the advice.

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