Hell Bent

[Anonymous @]

@ichabod @missy

What? Or as Buffy says when confused “Hamnoo?”

Maybe the material you’re writing about (3 seasons and Chibnall) should be on the News (4) page?

Not sure. I won’t write anything here! in case we’re on the wrong page? -or something.

Thane.

PS: still “oh-ing” from The Final Problem. I feel pretty drunk. I’ve never drunk anything beyond soft drinks and the entire Sherlock thing has me dizzy.

[Missy @missy]

@thane15: Am I missing something here? Ichi and i were talking about PC and the chance that we might have kept him a bit longer. Final Probem, is’nt that Sherlock?

No, I’m not being sarcastic, just confused. *grins*

Missy

 

[Anonymous @]

@missy

I apologise for interrupting your conversation with @ichabod.

I was simply referring to something which appeared to be about “three more” -in other words, a News issue associated with a forthcoming episode of Who which is a Chibnal run season which led to my own confusion.

Then, in my postscript I mentioned (but didn’t ‘spoil’)  tFP.

Again, if I stated something I shouldn’t, I apologise sincerely. 🙁

Thank you and cheers,

Thane15

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy  @thane15  Ichi and i were talking about PC and the chance that we might have kept him a bit longer.

Yup; and I’m still talking about it, under my breath, to myself, grumbling and growling and snapping at the air . . . good thing it’s bed time, after a nice soothing glass of wine . . . But DRAT! and damnation!

But I also think Thane’s right — this is about PC’s recent announcement re S10, not about Hell Bent, so we should probably we doing our snapping and snarling on DW News.

 

[Missy @missy]

@thane15:

Ah! Now I see. No apologies required or necessary. I am so incensed about Chibnal and his big gob (forgive the crudity) that I could scream. Thank you once more. *thumbs up*

@ichabod;

Yes, you are right. But here is as good a place as any! Wish I liked wine. *sigh*

Missy

 

[Chris Biffen @chrisbiffen]

I was so surprised when he finally broke through the wall to find not the TARDIS but a portal to Gallifrey! The first real Gallifrey episode of New Who! It kind of changes things though. If you look back to 9th and 10th Doctors episodes where they have this setting of “The Doctor is the only time lord and it’s a big deal if another time lord exists” which is pretty cool. The Doctor being the only one in the universe. However I do like the Timelords especially when Rassilon faced off with Tennant. I really wished Timothy Dalton was still Rassilon in Hell Bent. However, This is in my top 5 Capaldi episodes!

[Missy @missy]

@chrisbiffen;

Yes, it’s a good episode, but Heaven Sent is my favourite.

Missy

[The25thDoctor @the25thdoctor]

I hope somone sees this since it’s been awhile since this particular episode was posted about.

Why in Hell Bent when The Doctor comes back from talking to Me does he act like Clara should be surprised to see her? Just a few minutes prior to this when Clara asked hm what was out there he says “Me”. I hope the answer to this is not something obvious. 🤷‍♀️

Thanks.

[Missy @missy]

@the25thdoctor

Hello there and welcome.

I don’t think that Clara realised the Doctor meant ‘Madam Me’, she may have taken him literally. She was going through a difficult moment, with no pulse.

Well that’s what I think, but it doesn’t mean I am right. *winks*

Missy

 

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@the25thdoctor I agree with @missy – and that’s kind of the point of the name.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

First, I think Missy (above) is correct when she says that Clara thinks the Doctor is outside the Tardis when he says “It’s me”.

Now back to my reaction to the episode…

Wow. Just, wow.

I just watched Hell Bent and it is an emotional rollercoaster. Besides being a beautiful-looking ep (especially after the grimness of Heaven Sent).

The whole recurring scene with the Doctor and Clara in the diner was delightful but bittersweet, with that special kind of delicious irony that imbues lines that have more levels of meaning than the characters realise. (There should be a word for that but I can’t think of it). As when Clara says “She could be me, for all you know”, and Clara knows it, we know it, but the Doctor doesn’t. That entire scene had me smiling but my eyes were damp.

Those scenes where the Doctor confronted the military might of Gallifrey – and they all deserted and walked over to his side – were amazing, visually and dramatically. I did like that the pilot of the gunship was so careful and restrained – obviously acting under orders, but highly professional. And the General, too, was unfailingly polite and honourable – I felt rather sorry for him/her when the Doctor first clocked him one then shot him. But I had to admire the economy of the exchange – “Regeneration?” “Tenth” “Good luck” “You too, sir”

And it took me entirely aback (though it shouldn’t have) when the direction of the story changed abruptly from the Doctor as new Lord President to suddenly going rogue and absconding with Clara.

All the dialogue was beautifully written, from the frivolous – for example why the Doctor never asked how the Time Lords unfroze Gallifrey – “I didn’t ask. It would have made them feel clever” to the intense, as with Clara’s dialogue with the Doctor in the crypt, to the really clever reveals such as Clara’s answer when Ohila asked what she said to the Doctor – “Nothing I’m going to tell you. Except maybe this one part. I said Don’t worry, Doctor. They’ll all be looking at me” and the camera pans back to reveal an open trapdoor where the Doctor had been. I’m a sucker for clever and original dialogue.

The whole episode was just crammed with little Easter eggs for fans, such as the knocking on the door at the end of the Universe – four knocks, of course. But we never did find out whether the Hybrid was Ashildr/Me, or the Doctor (who might be half-human), or the Doctor plus Clara, and it didn’t really matter. It was just a mystery myth encouraged by the Doctor so the Time Lords would have to let him finish his ordeal on Gallifrey. I did ask myself, why did the Doctor encourage this mystery in the first place, since it made the Time Lords kidnap him and Clara got killed in the process? But my answer is, he didn’t – if he’d been captured (with Clara still alive) he might have simply told everything he knew and got let out of the Confession Dial; but when Clara died, he formulated the plan to make it back to Gallifrey (the slow way) and use Time Lord tech to save Clara.

And – this is where the emotional roller-coaster kicked in again – the realisation that Clara’s pulse wasn’t going to restart. The second time in three episodes that Clara’s had bad news, as in fatal, though this time it was the Doctor’s miscalculation not her own. And the scene where Clara would rather die than lose her memory was tragic. (Of course this wasn’t new, Donna underwent the same thing. The difference was, Donna had an established life to slot back into). That aside, I think the Doctor hadn’t thought it through – if he took away Clara’s memories of him, and even if her pulse restarted, what was he going to do with her? He couldn’t put her back in London at the time of her death – time paradox. He couldn’t keep her with him in the Tardis if she had no memory of him. Where could he put a girl with no pulse?

As it turned out, Clara found her own niche – travelling in the Tardis with Me. But that final scene in the diner was as touching as any ‘parting’ scene in Doctor Who (even though the Doctor didn’t know it). I think Moffat managed the most skillful ‘loss of a companion’ sequence in all of SciFi. He managed to spread it out over two episodes so I feel she’s been properly farewelled, without dwelling on long teary farewells. Much better if the characters restrain their emotion and let the audience do the feeling for them.   And personally I love that Clara’s not dead-and-gone, even if we won’t be seeing her again.    I rather like to imagine the concept of Clara and Me spreading a little bit of chaos through the Universe.

 

[winston @winston]

@dentarthurdent  I so agree with you on this episode. It has all the feels you need. It went from funny to so sad in moments and the conversation between Clara and the Doctor in the crypt is one my favourite scenes in all of Who. When Clara asks the Doctor why he would suffer so much to save her and he says “I had a duty of care” I cry every time. Such a simple yet elegant line that says so much.

Clara and Me flying through the universe in a diner shaped Tardis with a broken chameleon circuit is a great send off for both those characters.

Stay Safe.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

Thanks @winston

Just a couple more reflections. I said previously that putting Clara back in London would have created a time paradox. But then the Doctor said he would put her ‘somewhere safe and out-of-the-way’. But (if her pulse had returned) then when she died (again) a paradox would arise. If her heart hadn’t restarted she would have been in a strange position, not knowing why or how. Flying off with Me in the Tardis was certainly her best option. Would the Time Lords bother to pursue them? Maybe not, they didn’t seem to bother too much about chasing the Doctor except when they had a specific aim in mind.

Just re-watching – the first ten minutes are pure spaghetti Western. Once Upon a Time in the West is my favourite, and Rachel Talalay is taking a leaf out of Sergio Leone’s book, with the near-wordless, unhurried, almost stylised action, in a vast open space. And Murray Gold has gone full Morricone. Gallifrey looked gorgeous, as did Skaro at the start of the season.

I had thought that the Doctor losing his memory in the Tardis, then being woken by a passer-by, then walking into the diner were successive events. But obviously not, since, between being woken and the initial Diner scene the Doctor had acquired an old pickup truck, and he said he’d been to London to look for the Tardis. Which confused me a bit initially, but there’s actually no conflict there. But in that case, Clara must have dropped the unconscious Doctor off, collected the Tardis from London, and then waited weeks for the Doctor to travel to London and back the slow way, and materialised the Diner on the Doctor’s route. But then, the dialogue of the final scene with Clara and Me makes it appear as if it follows closely on the Tardis memory-loss scene. I suppose in Diner time that was possible – dump the Doctor, collect Tardis, and jump some weeks into the future for Clara’s final encounter to return the Tardis. Does this mean Clara was watching over the Doctor to make sure he was all right? I guess that’s okay with me.

I watched the scene in the diner with even more attention this time round. Of course it was written so, first time through, we didn’t know which one had lost their memory. Clever Moffat, operating on so many levels. But now *we* know: so, did the Doctor guess who Waitress Clara was? He must have become certain when the diner dematerialised and he saw Clara’s portrait on his Tardis. But did he know from the first moments and he was just hiding that from Clara? In which case “If I met her again, I would absolutely know” was a double bluff. Well I still can’t tell. But after reading many posts in this thread, I’ve concluded that “Memories become stories when we forget them” was a very cogent statement. I think the Doctor could remember the facts of most of his interactions with Clara, just the emotional impact was missing – for him. But still very much there for Clara. Those scenes in the diner are beautiful. Superlative acting. “You said memories become stories when we forget them. Maybe some of them become songs.” Awwww.

 

[janetteB @janetteb]

@dentarthurdent That is a wonderful and very comprehensive analysis of Hell Bent. Reading it was almost as good as watching the actual episode. It is a beautiful episode and as you demonstrate the writing and acting are both close to perfection as is the directing. I do think this episode and Heaven Sent are two of the best of the best Who stories.

Cheers

Janette

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@janetteb

Thanks for your kind comment.   It’s almost like therapy for me to write comments on an episode which made a deep impression on me, as this one did (specially since it’s the farewell to Clara).   I watch the episode, then I want to do something to celebrate the qualities of the episode, or just to ‘wind down’ from the emotional high that it induces.    Obviously everyone who watched it at the time has had their discussion, years ago.   The best I can manage is to post my comments in some suitable spot  (like Rigsy painting the Tardis? – that’s way too fanciful a comparison!) and if someone happens to read them and respond – well, that’s nice.   Thank you janetteB.   🙂

 

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

[Well, I’ve done it again. Re-watched Hell Bent and written a great long blurb about it. Went to the episode thread and what do I find? Me, (as in me-Dentarthurdent, not Ashildr-Me 🙂 from a year and a half ago. I’d forgotten I posted. Since my comments below are somewhat different from first time round, partly because I knew where the ep was heading, I’ll post them anyway.]

Hell Bent – is for me, the very best Doctor Who episode of all time. Brilliant dialogue, visually beautiful, deeply moving, and with the Moff’s trademark plot twists and irony.

This is going to be long, not really a review, more just impressions that struck me watching it.

And we start, unexpectedly, not on Gallifrey from Heaven Sent but in the same ‘Nevada’ scenery we saw in Season 6. With Clara, who is still very much alive, but who doesn’t seem to recognise the Doctor. And if the Doctor recognises her, he isn’t letting on.

“You been travelling?” “Yeah. From time to time.” Such nice phrasing, with extra undertones of meaning.

So then we’re back on Gallifrey (Tenerife), with the most spectacular red-gold landscape. (Someone’s been tweaking the colour grading to within an inch of its life).

And a welcome reappearance of the Sisterhood of Karn. Quite why they’re there is not apparent, I guess they just like to watch over the Doctor, and though Rassilon tells them they have no business there, I notice he makes no move to evict them. It would seem that even the Time Lords are hesitant to cross the Sisterhood.

So now we have the barn which featured in Day of the Doctor and Listen – presumably where the Doctor grew up.

The gunship is massive (excellent CGI, it looks absolutely real hanging there above the Doctor).
Though the Time Lords have (presumably) formidable armed forces, they do seem to have a conscience –
“Attention! Will all non-military personnel step away from the Doctor.”
“I repeat. All non-military personnel, please, step away from the Doctor.”
“At least move the children away.”

I rather like the General.
“Suggestion, sir. We could talk to him.”
“Words are his weapons.”
“When did they stop being ours?”

Ohila to Rassilon: “He does not blame Gallifrey for the horrors of the Time War. He just blames you.”

When the Doctor steps out of the barn to confront Rassilon, the colours of the landscape are spectacular, and the cloud shadows convey the vastness of the countryside. Beautiful cinematography. And the dynamics of the confrontation between Rassilon and the Doctor – and the rebellion of his troops – are fascinating.

Rassilon: “You have nothing, Doctor. Nothing! Do you know what I have, out here in the Dry Lands, where there’s nobody who matters? No witnesses.”

Clara: “Is this a story or did this really happen?”
Doctor: “Every story ever told really happened. Stories are where memories go when they’re forgotten.”
– that’s sheer poetry.

Rassilon knows how to do menace: “How many regenerations did we grant you? I’ve got all night.” But then he’s outgunned by his own (now the Doctor’s) gunships.

The threat of the Hybrid (a prophecy that the Hybrid would one day stand in the ruins of Gallifrey) is manipulated by the Doctor to get the Time Lords to ‘extract’ Clara a moment before she dies. The extraction chamber is another visual tour de force – everything except people is over-exposed to almost blank whiteness. Gives a surreal appearance to the scene. It’s left to the General (who is quite a sympathetic character) to explain to Clara that she’s dead and will have to be returned to her death soon.

What was unexpected and quite out of the normal character, was the Doctor’s punching the General on the jaw and grabbing his gun. But then the Doc’s quite a desperate man these days; I found it believable.

“Everybody, stay exactly where you are! No moving about. On pain of death, no-one take a selfie!” The Doctor just can’t resist those quips.

“I will not let Clara die.”
General: “She’s been dead for half the lifetime of the universe. If you tried to change that, you could fracture Time itself. Doctor, Lord President, are you really going to take that risk?”
– so the Doctor is now Lord President, is he? Logical enough, now Rassilon’s gone, but he’s about to abdicate.

Doctor: Regeneration? General: Tenth. Doctor: Good luck. General: You too, sir. (Doctor shoots him). – I love the economy of the writing there.

And of course the General regenerates as a black female – and why not? The implication (“The only time I’ve been a man, that last body”) is that gender changes are possible but infrequent, which would be compatible with the Doctor always being a man (up to that point). And anyway, Missy’s already done it.

Clara: I thought you said Gallifrey was frozen in another dimension?
Doctor: Well, they must have unfrozen it and come back.
Clara: How?
Doctor: I didn’t ask. It would make them feel clever.
– well that is lampshading it *and* handwaving it! But I think we can allow the Moff that bit of handwaving, and besides, the mechanism of how the Time Lords unfroze it is really not essential to the story.

In the diner:
Clara: So what was it, the thing you took?
Doctor: There was only one way to keep Clara safe. I had to wipe some of her memory.
Clara: Of what?
Doctor: Of me.
– so this is, I think, the first point where we have it confirmed that one of them has no memory of the other. And the way Clara looks at the Doctor, I wonder if her memory is going to come back now he’s right in front of her. And – that is definite misdirection by the Moff. But note, entirely compatible with the facts as later revealed. Clever, clever writing.

The cloisters are fairly spooky, with Wraiths, Daleks, Weeping Angels and Cybermen. And a Dalek croaking “Exterminate … me” is really rather pathetic. (I’m sure someone at some time has tried to read that as “Exterminate Me” but I can’t make it fit). The Angels make a good jump scare as always.

When Clara and the Doctor are having their discussion about how long he was in the confession dial, and Clara shouts at the General to stay back – I’ll swear that’s the chords of ‘Hotel California’ in the background. (‘You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave’). I have no idea how that’s relevant.

But it’s a deeply emotional scene where Clara realises what the Doctor has gone through for to her. And excellent writing where she has to get an answer from Ohila because the Doc refuses to answer. I like that the view cuts away while Clara and the Doc have their little heart-to-heart. I like even more, the bit of misdirection where Clara distracts Ohila and the General while the Doctor steals a Tardis and ‘backs up a bit’ to pick her up.

The Tardis is of course a standard Type 40, just like William Hartnell’s. So the Doc’s elated but Clara’s pulse stubbornly refuses to restart. And they fly ‘nowhere in space, but forward in time’ – so they’re still in the ruins of Gallifrey at the end of their trip. And still Clara has no pulse. The Doc is getting increasingly frantic – when there are four knocks on the door. (Had to be four, of course). But was he expecting Me to be there all along? I don’t know.

“The one and only Me. Finally, you earn the title, sitting here in a reality bubble at the end of Time itself. How are you sustaining it, by the way?”
“Brilliantly.”
Oh, Moff, another handwave. But so cheeky I’ll accept that too, and besides, that isn’t really essential to the plot.

So then Ashildr/Me has deduced that the Hybrid isn’t her, or even the Doctor, but the Doctor+Clara. Had the Doctor also suspected that? Obviously his plan all along had been to wipe Clara’s memory and return her (alive) to some safe place on Earth. But he may just have felt that necessary to stop Clara yearning for the travelling life.

And *of course* Clara is watching all this.

I notice the Doctor doesn’t specifically invite Me on board the Tardis (but what else is he going to do?). She follows him anyway.

And the Doctor’s plans run slap into Clara. DOCTOR: I’m trying to keep you safe.
CLARA: Why? Nobody’s ever safe. I’ve never asked you for that, ever. These have been the best years of my life, and they are mine. Tomorrow is promised to no one, Doctor, but I insist upon my past. I am entitled to that. It’s mine.
– which raises the question, how much of our identity is tied up with our memories? Would Clara (with total amnesia about her adventures) even be the same Clara?

So they decide on a sort of Russian roulette with the neural block.

CLARA: And one of us, One of us will… I don’t think I could ever forget you.
DOCTOR: Clara, I don’t think you’re ever going to have to.
(- and this was the first point – finally! – where we realise the scenes in the diner were all back to front – it was the Doc who didn’t know who he was talking to. It was Clara who was hiding her knowledge.)

So then we get the farewell speech in the Tardis – from the Doc, even though it’s Clara we’re losing. Interesting oppsite to the usual.

And a bittersweet final scene in the diner:

CLARA: She could be anyone, right? You don’t know who you’re looking for. I mean, she could be me, for all you know. (- this is Clara, living dangerously.)

And the Doc picks out Clara’s theme tune on his guitar –
CLARA: What Clara told you in the Cloisters
DOCTOR: I don’t remember a single thing about it.
CLARA: You said memories become stories when we forget them. Maybe some of them become songs.
(for no reason whatsoever, my TV always goes a bit misty at this point)

And the Moff has one final surprise for us, as Clara goes into the diner restroom to join Me in her Tardis. And they set off for Gallifrey ‘the long way round’. (Does anyone else think the prospect of one immortal and one undead in their own Tardis is more alarming for the Universe than the Hybrid?)

Question: Did the Doc realise the waitress was Clara when the diner started to dematerialise? I suppose he must have. But did he suspect before that? I notice he never asked the waitress her name, which would have been a natural thing to do. Did he subconsciously not want to force her to lie?

And of course a final scene with the Doctor alone in his Tardis.

Full marks to Capaldi and Jenna for the diner scenes where we suspect one of them ‘knows’ what’s going on but – until the reveal – we can’t tell which. (And of course to the Moff’s writing. He seems to be never happier than when he’s operating on several levels of meaning).

Altogether a beautiful episode.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u Since you asked, this is what I know of stolen Tardises.
In the beginning, the Doctor stole his Type 40 Tardis. He was about to steal a different one when Clara (appearing from his timestream) told him “Don’t steal that one, steal this one. The navigation system’s knackered, but you’ll have much more fun” (The Name of the Doctor). It also had a faulty chameleon circuit. Now in The Doctor’s Wife the Tardis says:
IDRIS: And then you stole me. And I stole you.
DOCTOR: I borrowed you.
IDRIS: Borrowing implies the intention to return the thing that was taken. What makes you think I would ever give you back?
I thought that implied that the Tardis had ‘chosen’ the Doctor, but I don’t think it actually says that anywhere. Even if the Tardis did, I would just reinterpret that as influencing Clara-in-Doctor’s-timeline to steer the Doctor in that direction.
Thereafter the Doctor had just the one Tardis.

Now at the end of Face the Raven, the Doctor was teleported into his Confession Dial and the Tardis was abandoned. After the events of Heaven Sent, in Hell Bent, the Doctor ‘rescued’ Clara and they stole *another* tardis, which became the American Diner tardis later operated by Clara and Me. After the Doctor lost his memory Clara went back to collect the Doctor’s abandoned Tardis from London and transported it (either in the Diner, or Me flew the Diner and Clara flew the Doctor’s Tardis) to the desert for the Doctor to find at the end of the episode.

That’s as I see it, anyway.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

The doctor lies. The writers mislead.

but apologies for spoilery…

We think Clara stopped The Doctor from stealing the ‘wrong’ Tardis because…

1. That was the point of the episode

2. Clara said ‘I’m the impossible girl!’ So the event must be a case in point (??)

BUT

in Hell Bent, the Doctor also stole a tardis which ended up in the hands of ‘frozen’ Clara, and Ashildr, and they disguise it as an American Diner. In this guise it seems doomed to remain because, believe it or not, this one has a faulty chameleon circuit! Fixable maybe but not for long.

Well maybe that was a problem with the type 40; can’t get the parts guvnor. Or it was the same tardis, maybe even a crazy one who thought it could steal a timelord? Gone a bit ‘Moment!’

Was it frozen Clara who sold her dodgy type 40, with god knows how many miles on the clock, to Doctor 1? Or timeline Clara, who just did that weird abstract thing that Moff presumably understands but doesn’t really bear inspection?

But… why The Diner in the first place? You have to suspect it’s the same one in The Impossible Astronaut. Which begs another question. Was Ashildr (assuming she was still travelling with Clara) in contact with Doctor 11 over Trenzalore? Which might be one reason 12 recognised her in Scandinavia.

Presumably Clara stayed in the back room when River slapped 11 in the mush!

[winston @winston]

@dentarthurdent It is all so timey-wimey! The Tardis is a living growing entity that is capable of choosing who she steals and she likes being called sexy.The Tardis could have her own show.

 

Stay safe

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u I think you’re complicating it. I think there were only ever two tardises involved – the Doctor’s Tardis (Sexy/Idris) that he stole originally and that stayed with him right through all the twists and turns of the series.
And the second Tardis that the Doctor stole in Hell Bent which was taken over by Clara and Me. I don’t know if it got stuck as an American Diner or they just hadn’t needed to change the exterior before the final shot of Hell Bent.

Was the American Diner in The Impossible Astronaut actually a Tardis? I thought it was just a bit of the local landscape.

@winston I agree, the tardis is a character in itself and could have its own show.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

well… actually I SPECULATE there could be just ONE police box/diner/sexyidris tardis

My bonkers flow chart looks like this:

Hell Bent: 12 steals tardis

> taken by ‘frozen’ Clara and Ashildr, who reunite mindwiped 12 with his tardis and tour the cosmos in an American Diner

> in due course one or t’other or both realise 11 has a potential exploding Tardis issue (never really well explained) but the universe and eyepatch baroness is out to get him, all that, so they help him host the River Song face-slapping party in the Diner Tardis

> eventually they go back to Gallifrey, find renegade doctor 1 and donate the SAME Tardis, complete with its now knackered navigation system and chamelion circuit, unless that was sexy/idris gone all ‘Moment’ while in prolonged contact with the awesomeness of ‘frozen’ Clara and Ashildr

> 1 uses the tardis to deliver the Hand of Rassilon to London (question: why did he do that? It might seem like a handy  thing to have around but really quite likely to attract Daleks and/or other intergalactic gits… so not that clever)

> events of unearthly child etc

> somehow Clara gets back to Trap Street I suppose. No rush.

 

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u Interesting theory, but, with respect, I think it’s needlessly complicated. Much simpler if there are just two tardises. (And we know the Time Lords had a fleet of them. In fact, Type 40 suggests they had a very considerable number. So, plenty of Tardises to steal). Why would Clara and Ashildr/Me go back to Gallifrey? OK, if Clara got tired of immortal undeath, so the Timelords could put her back in Trap Street, but then where would that leave Ashildr/Me? I think she’d be more likely to just drop Clara off and vamoose pdq, given the history of the Time Lords treatment of other species. And the Tardis the original Doctor stole didn’t appear to look like a police box or a diner, so its chameleon circuit must have been unstuck or switched off at that point.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

Just a theory… application of The Razor of Occam; do not duplicate broken chamelion circuits unnecessarily.

As far as we know only the Doctor has a sentient tardis. But maybe not. Maybe chamelion circuits are always prone to failure. Like the legendary British Leyland fully detachable door handles…

Not even saying that it’s a ‘live’ plot line… still think Moff was got-at/changed tack after aeries 8.

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