Series 9 (or 35) Prologue

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    Craig @craig

    The prologue for the new series has just been released. The Doctor visits one of The Sisterhood of Karn. And she knows him very well. Let the bonkers theorising begin. Way hay!

    Remember, and I can’t state this strongly enough. If you’ve been reading SPOILERS, keep them to yourself. Only comments on the actual content here please. Everything else goes in the Spoilers topic.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Well, I haven’t been reading spoilers which means I am totally mystified by the Prologue. “He wants to see you…” but “He” seems to be different from “that creature” – who is presumably the Master.

    hmmm, no bonkers theories as yet…

    janetteB @janetteb

    I have been reading spoilers and I too am totally mystified by the prologue. (have to say I have never read anything truely spoilerish on the spoilers thread thankfully.) Like @blenkinsopthebrave I assume the “he” referred to is the Master, “lifelong enemies and all that” but as for the rest, I assume all will be clear next week. No bonkers theories because I am certain that any speculations would be so far off the mark that I am happy to wave the white flag before making the attempt.



    lisa @lisa

    Thanks @craig! My best guess is that they are referring to Davros? Because of a few things
    that are probably too spoilery to post here. But last season I thought we would see Davros
    when they called that cyberman in the glass box Dr. Skarosa. That just felt like a big hint.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Actually, I felt that two separate people/entities were being referred to–and I think “he” is different from “that creature”. Just a feeling, anyway.

    Arbutus @arbutus

    Well, I don’t have the remotest clue what that is about, but I can’t wait to find out. Isn’t it great?   🙂

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    OK, I have watched it a couple of more times, and here is my theory: “He wants to see you.” This is a reference to one of the most powerful entities in the cosmos–the Great Librarian” who wants to see the Doctor because the last time the Doctor was in the Galactic Library, he borrowed a Big Finish audio recording and has failed to return it. It is now hundreds of years overdue and the fine is, well, really rather large. As a result, the Great Librarian has sent out his servants (the Vashta Nerada, of course) to find the Doctor. The Great Librarian is not to be trifled with. But the High Priestess of Karn realises that something is wrong. It is “that creature”, who is, of course the Meddling Monk, who stole the Big Finish CD from the Doctor and was going to attempt to change history by leaving it in a record shop in 1963, before the invention of CDs. But the Doctor has stolen it back from the Meddling Monk and is now being chased by both the Great Librarian, who wants the late fine paid and the Meddling Monk, who is now mad as a cut snake. As the High Priestess of Karn realises, this situation is likely to lead to the Doctor’s destruction, or at the very least being refused access to all other lending libraries. Chastened, the Doctor hands the High Priestess his portable CD player containing the Big Picture audio CD as he contemplates his next move in this dangerous game of library ethics.

    Anonymous @

    Maybe the creature is Kamelion?

    Kamelion is a friend of the Doctor (that he didn’t know very well), but before the Doctor became friends with Kamelion he was an enemy. Kamelion helped the Master escape before, so he might be trying to save the Master from behind the crack now. Missy could really be Kamelion in disguise. The Half Face Man and other robots could be friends of Kamelion. So Kamelion could have been repaired by them or at least has the same time travel abilities.

    Kamelion can look like anyone, so… Missy is the Dinosaur!!

    The “he” could be a different person like the Master from behind the crack or Davros.

    ichabod @ichabod

    “Did something happen?”


    “Was it recent?”


    What a hook!

    janetteB @janetteb

    @blenkinsopthebrave. Are you certain that you haven’t been peeking at the scripts?? If not then I think you should apply to the BBC for work as a Dr Who script writer ASAP.



    Arbutus @arbutus


    Yes. This is a story that I want to see. (Raises glass.)

    ichabod @ichabod

    Um, somebody? Have the episode by episode discussions of S8 gone someplace new here?  They used to be listed on the  home page, I think, but now the only way I can find, say, “Flatline” is if somebody else has posted there recently and their post shows up on the “Activity” page.  ??

    The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman

    I’ve just noticed, that’s Julia from the first two Hellraiser films.

    Mudlark @mudlark

    @ichabod    If you click on ‘Forums’ at the top of the Home Page you will find all the series/episodes which have been discussed listed under the Doctor concerned.  So if you want to access the discussion of any episode in S8, just click on ’12th Doctor’

    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Seven days to go and a prologue! A nicely ominous one to boot. Some random musings:

    Agreeing with @blenkinsopthebrave I get the feeling that more than one person is being referenced. The old friend who is the enemy, and the old enemy who could be a friend.

    Nice to see Karn again. Claire Higgins reprising her role from Night of the Doctor opposite Doctor 8. She was great in Hellraiser too, as @thekrynoidman suggested.

    The ovaloid disc thing the Doctor passed her looked a bit like the communicator bearing the seal of Rassilon from the Five Doctors, but last seen in Time of the Doctor, where eleven used it to translate the signal from the crack. A link to Gallifrey? I wonder who he intends her to give it to? The Master would seem to only one who’d have any interest.

    Looking good though,and I’ve managed to clear next weekend of troublesome work! Huzzah!

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    I think Craig was just clearing the decks for Series 9 – now the prologue is up, Series 8 isn’t the current series any more. 😀

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @janetteb, @arbutus,

    Too kind.

    I was sitting on a train at the time, on a four-hour journey, and the brain starts to wander after a while.


    The communicator bearing the seal of Rassilon? Are you sure it’s not a portable CD player…?

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @phaseshift and @blenkinsopthebrave

    It’s the Portable CD Player of Rassilon.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    By golly, I think you’ve got it!

    ichabod @ichabod

    @mudlark  Thanks!  Just lost my grip there a bit, in the excitement — !

    @bluesqueakpip  It’s the Portable CD Player of Rassilon.

    Okay, it’s official: I love you.






    Anonymous @

    @blenkinsopthebrave @bluesqueakpip

    Awesome and funny!

    I too loved those lines @ichabod:

    Did something happen?


    Is it recent?


    Everything results in destruction..

    You can say that about being born

    ….Yes, but I don’t like you (even though you can trust her).


    Look after the universe, I’ve put a lot of work into it.

    Interesting that the Doctor’s last words last season were a recognition that he’s “an idiot with a box who drops into help now and then.” Above, he realises that he’s been positively involved with the universe as River once said to Smithy in The Wedding of River Song.

    Every line unpredictable and being rather superficial, I think I could listen to this new voice of Capaldi’s: I never quite heard it in The Thick of It, Local Hero, The Hour or anything else: it’s clear, mellifluous and delicious-sounding. In every sense, it’s the poised voice of a mature Time Lord.

    Basically, he can read the phone book for me and I’d love it.

    I think there are two people (or entities) and the flat disc is probably Gallifreyan -is it the Master’s? I don’t think so, so possibly it refers to Rassilon as others above have reckoned. Beyond that, I’m totally stuck and very happy…..this is what a prologue should do: confuse and muddle. I always wanted to see the Sisters of Karn again and I’m sure someone else (on a different thread) suggested they might be back. So good on that theorist!

    Let the fun begin. Unable to find jelly babies, I’ve got English wine gums instead. Compromise….


    lisa @lisa

    So the Doctor says that he is going to meditate on a rock before he goes to meet up
    with the mystery person. What comes next is the prequel called ‘The Doctor’s Meditation’.
    I’ve read in comments elsewhere we might get that on BBC America possibly mid week?!
    These next few days are going to be rough 🙂

    ichabod @ichabod

    @purfilion  Yes, the voice — that anchored-low, slightly husky, raw-honey voice, that’s something new from him, I also think (though I’ve heard it in some lower-key interviews, and possibly in that “You want my job” speech to Ollie from the end of TToI, when he drops the terrier snarl for a minute).  Even my sister, who goes for a completely different body type (blocky, broad in the face — the ox model, Vincent D’Inofrio (sp?) for example) and not the long-bodied greyhound look that I like (e.g. Jeremy Irons, Capaldi) says, “Well there’s the voice . . . but he looks like vulture!”

    Yah, well; strokes and folks.  But she watched this new bit, seen above, and I think she might be wavering . . . I’m not saying another word to her on the subject.  Curiosity and the draw of that voice might bring her round (if I can just keep my yap shut long enough).  You never know.

    The “Meditation” is supposed to be broadcast in the US on BBCA on this Friday evening, setting up S9 episode 1 on Saturday.  My phone will be off the hook for a while.

    ichabod @ichabod

    @purofilion  Sorry, my post above on S9 thread was for you (and also @lisa) except that I dropped an “o” out of your @!

    geoffers @geoffers

    “Did something happen?”


    “Was it recent?”


    i think the “that creature” she refers to is missy, and the quoted dialogue is a reference to the (seemingly/apparently?) false gallifrey coordinates she gave the doctor, the last time he saw her alive. possibly, he’s taken that lie quite personally, and is still trying to recover from the disappointment? it obviously wounded him deeply (as was intended), so i think he may be working through those emotions, still, and may not be ready to see miss missy, again, just yet…

    if this prologue has anything to do with the last series, that is. it could simply be related to an event that hasn’t happened yet (for us, the viewers)…

    one more week!!!!!!


    :- )


    janetteB @janetteb

    I also think the old enemy referred to is Missy. The Doctor might be trying to revive her in order to find out where Gallifrey is, ostensibly at least for who does things for only one reason? The Doctor has a rather sentimental attachment to his old enemy. Missy clearly does know there whereabouts of Gallifrey, she is using Gallifreyan tech. I also suspect that who or what is searching for the Doctor is someone else, even possible a Time Lord. Rassilon maybe.

    @purofilion I went to the lolly shop in the city today and they have sold out of English Jelly Bablies so it is Aussie Jelly babies for us as well as Aussie style jammy dodgers. The supermarket no longer stocks the British ones. I will compensate with fish fingers and custard. (for the boys, not me..) I could not get white noodle boxes either, (Time Heist) so bought bright green ones and am painting them blue. Not Dr Who obsessed, nooooo. 🙂

    Another prequel? Yay. I love these “mini sodes”. Something to look forward to at the end of what is going to be a long irritating week.





    Anonymous @

    @janetteb Oh No! no proper lollies: funnily enough I can’t find the ones I purchased yesterday. I fear they are still in the car. Yes, irritating! We spent 12 hours on a children’s book (to write as part of written assessment) and a ridiculous health assignment (now a “proper subject”) on the importance of exercise. A paragraph which shouldn’t exceed 500 words except it required some nonsense on psychological, behavioural and someothergarbage on the need for exercise. I’m officially stropping.



    Spider @spider

    Oh i SO enjoyed that! Capaldi at his best.

    Sisters of karn! Yay!

    These lines just made me laugh lots.

    Why do you always assume i’m lying?

    It saves time.

    But now totally confused! Although I think most of what is being said is re Gallifrey/Master/Missy, but having been fairly wrong about almost ALL of series 8 I shall just have to wait and see.

    To say that I am looking forward to the new series is a rather large understatement. Not quite sure how I’m going to get through this week! *gibber*

    I’m off to mediate on a rock somewhere …


    Anonymous @


    I totally agree: The Capaldi Doctor isn’t confused or worried. He is what he is. Everything seems to have fallen into place for this Doctor and I like that. I feel confident whereas last season I felt there were times when he really didn’t ‘know’ himself. He seemed confused and aching. The ‘cooking’ process, I suppose 🙂

    Anonymous @


    Yes, the voicethat anchored-low, slightly husky, raw-honey voice, that’s something new from him,

    I concur. The pace is right too: last season the words came rushing out like a waterfall and I could only really catch up with subtitles.

    The meditation: hang on, what? There’s another minisode?

    Ah, now, in Listen wasn’t the Doctor sitting on the Tardis meditating? is there a connection I wonder?

    janetteB @janetteb

    @Purofilion. Ah now I know what work my youngest should be doing. I will be having words. (He is the same year as Boyilion I think). Meanwhile will be spending this week assisting the yr 12 recalcitrant with his work as he has deadlines fast encroaching.

    SmithDoc would have been incapable of meditating. CapDoc seems rather inclined to a spot of meditation but given the results in Listen I am not entirely sure that is a good thing.



    Whisht @whisht

    “The planet” – a lovely subtitle.

    When would it not be the planet, when visiting the Sisterhood…?

    “He” (who is looking for the Doctor) and “that monster” I had thought was referring to the same person (Missy/ Master or “Misstra” as I’ll annoyingly call her).

    However I’m now wondering if “He” is the President. And though not the “Portable CD Player of Rassilon” I think the disc the Doctor handed over is something important that could unlock the Timelords from wherever they are.

    This – bringing them back – is the Doctor’s “destruction”. But this is what he wants to do.

    Either that or……

    He wants to rehabilitate the Misstra, the disc is central to this, but this (obviously) would lead to his destruction as …. leopards and enemies-in-fiction do not change their spots.


    I get to have a month of birthdays and whoever it was upstream who mentioned Davros is right and I get to see Gomez and Bloom in scenes together.


    Either way I expect no less than Misstra coming to collect that disc and have some fun with the Sisterhood:

    “oooooh…. can I join now?”


    Mudlark @mudlark


    I think the disc the Doctor handed over is something important that could unlock the Timelords from wherever they are.

    This – bringing them back – is the Doctor’s “destruction”. But this is what he wants to do.

    That sounds distinctly plausible; it fits the scenario and the Doctor’s character. But the variety of possible interpretations is such that my brain is a jumble and I am resigned to possessing myself in patience and waiting for enlightenment.

    In any case, if the tone of this taster is indicative of what is to come, then we are in for a cracker of a season  🙂




    Arbutus @arbutus

    My guess, if I have a guess, is that this doesn’t refer in any major way to anything from Series 8. I agree with those who think it might have something to do with Rassilon. Or it might be someone entirely new (which would be great!). The whole things feels too portentous to refer to the MixMaster (IMO).

    @purofilion     Oh, yes. Arbutus Jr. had to do an assignment last year for the bizarrely-named “Planning 10” course that everyone has to take, in which he described how he might acquire marijuana. This in Vancouver, where there are illegal but quite visible “pot shops” on every corner just now, due to loopholes in the medical marijuana rules. I believe he answered that he would get it either from a “guy who knows a guy”, from the kids that hang out around the corner of the lane across the street from the school, or from a shop with a sign reading “by the people, for the people”. As with many of the assignments in that course, he didn’t get the greatest grade, but he did get an acerbic comment from the instructor.  🙂

    lisa @lisa
    ichabod @ichabod

    @janetteb  He goes off to meditate, but I doubt that he’s really going to do that; he’s going to think out loud, and we’re going to listen in, so we get some idea of how he’s come from that high-spiritied departure with Clara for new adventures at the end of Last Xmas to what looks like hiding, or healing, or whatever, *without* Clara, with the sisterhood of Karn.  Clearly something has happened (Thing A) which is maybe a whole string of things that has led from LC to “The Planet”.

    But something *else* (Thing B) has happened more recently leading to a potential and radical change: the Doctor decided whether or not to go and meet the person seeking him so forcefully.  That’s “Did something happen?  Recently?” indicating that his settled state of some sort of lone refuge here brought about by Thing A (possibly a whole series’ worth of adventures) has been breeched by Thing B — about which the Sisterhood knows nothing yet or she wouldn’t be asking him — and that’s shifted the balance so he’s thinking of leaving.

    So, first this bit of set-up; then the actual “meditation” that will put us in the picture at least a bit regarding Thing A and also Thing B; and then — there’s a couple of seconds in one of the trailers, #3 I think, where we see the Doctor in this same setting (an underground lake and the surrounding rocky landscape?) and he says, to no one visible, “*Now* I’m ready.”

    So yes, @purofilion — this fragment with the Sister is the set-up for the “meditation” that immediately follows it to make up the 10 minutes of this little prequel, and then we’re standing on the cliff’s edge poised for S9, episode 1a to take off on Saturday evening.



    lisa @lisa

    I will probably be wrong but I don’t think they are just referring to Missy. At the
    end the sister says to the Doctor ‘you have people that care enough to find you’
    we know from the other trailer that Missy gets the disc and goes looking for the
    doctor. So I’m thinking Missy isn’t the *he* in question. Because in her demented
    way she cares a great deal for the Doctor. The Doctor knows this and therefore
    leaves the disc to her. Although it could be that recent incidents with Missy
    and the matrix and Galifrey is what the Doctor could be referring to as his something
    that happened.
    But for now I’m sticking with Davros. Because I think the Doctor is going to try
    again to change history and it maybe likely to be something to do with changing Davros.
    The sisters line ‘his servants seek you everywhere’ to me that probably means Daleks?
    They have always been searching out the Doctor from the beginning of the show and I have
    always thought of them as the servants/children of Davros.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    I have to admit if I’m wondering if this ‘Prologue’ is actually set near the finale for Series 9. Or maybe near the end of Episode 1 or something.

    It’s got that feel about it, of one of those scenes where you then get a ‘Two Days Earlier’ caption immediately after the titles.

    lisa @lisa

    @ichabod I think your thing B being an unknown yet is extremely plausible.
    When we see the prequel I expect to see the Doctor looking for something he feels
    is important before he goes to see his ‘enemy’. Then in episode 1 we will see
    Missy and Clara go off to support him. I have a really bonkers notion that it might
    have something to do with that chalice. Remember the 8th Doctor drank from the chalice
    and it made him more war like. Maybe the Doctor wants to get Davros to drink from the
    chalice using a formula that would have the opposite effect. I came up with that on my
    bike ride with the kid and it felt like an EW! moment. But its probably nothing.

    lisa @lisa

    @bluesqueakpip Excellent notion! If the sister appears in another episode and
    I think she is supposed to then this prologue could probably be *dropped* into the
    series in various locations. This could very well be out of sequence!

    Spider @spider

    Have watched the trailer again (and again and again and possibly a million times again – cos i am needy, me XD) and am now convinced the he/creature refereed to is davros or daleks of some fashion.

    Given my track record, this will now become the thing most likely to not happen XD

    But regardless, i do think we are up for an absolute cracker of a series. Last series i think we were getting confused regenerating doctor, which was really good and i really enjoyed it. But THIS time i think we get Capaldi in full PROPER flow.  And it will be magnificent.

    If not i’m off to the sisters of Karn to slap them,


    Anonymous @

    @spider; yes I concur “in full flow”.

    @whisht love your meditations and theories there.

    Davros. Mmm. Not unlikely: his children/minions seek you everywhere…

    @bluesqueakpip I understand you there: I thought too that it could be placed in any episode but possibly after the penultimate somehow. When Clara was calling the Doctor and he was ‘absent’.

    @arbutus I know: a marijuana ‘analysis’ -medical of course – is up next @janetteb I don’t know how you do it with more than one!! Cheers to you! This morning I’ve had it. I feel like I’ve been the one doing all the work (certainly colouring in the bloody illustrations for this children’s book… Grr). Yes The Boy is in Year 8: 4 months to go (I shouldn’t be wishing away school so easily or quickly)

    Anonymous @

    So, at the beginning one can see Capaldi’s wedding ring. He wore the Gallifrey ring to cover the tight wedding ring and yet me thinks he’s lost weight: the ring is loose!

    I don’t know who said this on the Forum but it was something along the lines of a good actor is known for how he listens to the actors around him and how this clearly shows in his face. This is certainly true of Capaldi. His face (quite rubbery) goes thru a myriad of expressions.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    Well, it could be set later in S9 – I was thinking of S9 rather than the finale of S8. But if that ‘Meditation’ minisode has the same backdrop as when Clara phoned him, we’ll know.

    Or if it’s that bloody volcano again …

    I think they’re not really that worried now about the wedding ring showing – after all, the Doctor’s a widower and they were very careful to make sure he mentioned River in S8. However, I did notice that the poor man had to haul himself up from the low seat by hanging onto a handy bit of set, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the gruelling schedule is also resulting in him losing some weight. 🙂

    Anonymous @


    Ah yes, I recall the mention of ‘River’ and apologies, I thought you meant last season: typically, I always confuse Series 8 with 9!

    I also wondered about the meditation in Listen -but of course his hair is distinctly shorter there.

    Yes I agree with the gruelling schedule. Years ago, back in 2006, Tennant completed a video diary. Some days he was talking at 4 am because filming was at night (again!) or he’d been woken early as filming started at 6 am and there was makeup etc and some re-shoots from previous days.

    I noticed, last year, Capaldi, can’t run properly. He seems to ‘hobble-run’  -not that this is unusual! I’m 48 and I can’t run properly anymore either. Who nose! Meniscus knee problems perhaps?

    ichabod @ichabod

    @lisa    I’m sticking with Davros. Because I think the Doctor is going to try
    again to change history and it maybe likely to be something to do with changing Davros.
    The sisters line ‘his servants seek you everywhere’ to me that probably means Daleks?

    That one disguised as a Sister of Karn, but with a stratified face, says in a sinister tone, “Where is the Doctor?”  I’m guessing that this is one of the “servants” searching everywhere for Capdoc, so whatever sort of being the cloaked figure with the layer-cake face is, the “He” the Doctor is possibly going to see, maybe not til dealing with some other stuff first) it’s the kind of being that the “He” would employ as a servant.  Dalek?  TL?  ???

    @bluesqueakpip  I have to admit if I’m wondering if this ‘Prologue’ is actually set near the finale for Series 9. Or maybe near the end of Episode 1 or something.

    Yep, I agree — the “Prologue and Meditation” could be from many points in S9.  The possibilities are delightfully endless . . . oh, we are going to have a good time!

    ichabod @ichabod

    Oops — just checked, and “Now I’m ready” is on the trailer clip released Sept 10, I think, at about 0:18, and the background is not Karn (at least not what we see of Karn in the Prologue clip), but someplace unidentifiable because the entire background is obscured by a massive soviet poster featuring Lenine in heroic mode.  WTF?  Baffledom.

    ichabod @ichabod

    LENIN, damn it, not Lenine.

    lisa @lisa

    @ichabod Nice idea! So I wonder? He certainly speaks in a Dalek tone
    even though the voice isn’t Dalek? It also looks like he’s speaking on the
    Karn planet.
    Isn’t there supposed to be a cult of Morbius on the Karn Planet?
    The Doctor helped to kill Morbius. Maybe that guy has that connection.
    He could also be a Time lord resurrected from who knows where that
    seems a bit distraught.
    I just based it on what seems to be according to the trailers lots
    and lots of diverse Daleks coming in a variety of iterations .

    ichabod @ichabod

    @purofilion   I think he’s okay with running, but he started S8 with a deliberately funny run with his arms down and his hands flared out a little, which some people called “the penguin run”; Armando Iannuci, I think, had pointed out that Capaldi tends to come up with a comical run for a comedic character (there’s a clip from TToI, think, of Malcolm Tucker running across an avenue in DC, very knees up and head up, very silly), and even as far back as “Local Hero” there’s a running down a hill away from the camera bit where he’s working his left arm like butter churn.  The penguin run is evident in some early episodes of S8, but I think it faded away as things got more serious.  I was glad to see it go, myself.

    Anyway, I *hope* that’s all you saw there, not some real physiological problem — there’s a *lot* of running in DW in general, so he needs to be up for it.  Capaldi commented somewhere that he cancelled his gym membership during the filming of S8 (or maybe 9?) because all the activity on the show keeps him fit, no extra work-outs required.  Just by observation, it’s keeping him thin enough to look positively haggard sometimes, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the “cover” ring might need to be a half-size smaller, just to secure the wedding ring so it doesn’t fly off on its own with the momentum of a vigorous hand-gesture (as I’ve had happen after a weight-shrinking flu).

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