Series 9 (or 35) Prologue
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Bluesqueakpip 8 years, 7 months ago.
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14 September 2015 at 04:31 #42639
@lisa Yeah, on Layer-cake guy, he’s on Karn (I think) and disguised (?) as a Sister, so I think he’s revealed himself and is interrogating the real Sisters in a menacing way about the whereabouts of the Doctor — who may already have left them. Apparently the Doctor really did have to go someplace else one way or another, because bad guys had already learned that he’s with the Sisters on Karn, and he wouldn’t want the Sisters endangered by continuing to protect him by hiding him.
14 September 2015 at 07:33 #42643Anonymous @
I must admit, I’m not at all keen on the speculation of Davros returning this season. Great character when it’s called for, but as a frequently recurring villain? Too one-dimensional, if I dare say that, and certainly doesn’t make the Daleks scarier.
It would risk making it seem (even more) like all the show can do in terms of ‘big baddies’ is a revolving door of Daleks (+-Davros), Cybermen and the Master- something that I think was reasonably justified for much of RTD’S run (reboot of the show, gotta explore the big names) and was (admirably) largely avoided by Moffat, during Smith’s tenure at least.
Besides, I never saw the Daleks as Davros’ servants- they seem to use him and toss him aside as need be.
14 September 2015 at 18:35 #42658@Supernumerary It doesn’t matter to me if it turns out to be Davros. If he returns
2 things – 1. Daleks are still a part of the big story arc about the time war and
Davros is part of the Dalek story. and 2. You can’t predict whether or not this might
be a particularly good incarnation of Davros. Look at what SM did with the Master!
We are also getting new adversaries this season so there will be something for
everyone. BTW – perhaps servants is the incorrect description? Maybe but in a major way
they do serve the Davros ‘agenda’.14 September 2015 at 18:38 #4265914 September 2015 at 20:24 #42665so the main thing I’m getting from people’s comments us that the he and that creature are two different people?
I have a crazy theory that the he is the Vale yard and the creature is davros
I know sounds crazy and I have no reason to suspect this other than somewhere in my head is screaming Vale yard. Of course there is the very real possibility that the he and that creature are the same person and my money is on the latter
Thoughts?
17 September 2015 at 05:51 #42769Those of us acted on by the forces of timeywiminess and therefore shifted to a different time zone were able to attend tonight a cinema showing of Dark Water/Death in Heaven in 3-D (which was stunning stuff) followed by a `Prequel’ to Series 9 and an interview with Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman.
The Prequel; it was called
The Doctor's Meditation' and features a medieval castle and where the Doctor is, we presume, in hiding. Bymeditation,’ Peter Capaldi explained in the interview, the Doctor means more `preparation’ for something he needs to do.When asked in the interview if there were any Classic Who episodes that fans could brush-up on to prepare for Series 9, Peter Capaldi suggested Dalek stories and regenerations. Karn is the site for the Prologue and is certainly a good place for regenerations so he’s perhaps nudging us to look back to the `Brain of Morbius’?
17 September 2015 at 14:16 #42777Have just watched it again. I am now convinced that three separate people are being referred to: “He”, who the Doctor reluctantly has agreed to see “soon”–“that creature”, who is both enemy and friend–and finally, when he hands over his Portable CD Player (sorry!) “you know who to give that to”.
For some reason, I feel that last reference is to a third person. As to who all these people are, well…
17 September 2015 at 14:46 #42778Ah hah! Yes, I see. So, the disc could be something given to either Missy or even a “friend” which Brewski referred to on the Spoiler thread. This friend could be someone one can’t trust -for the moment, and could possibly be….Clara…. Because who is she really? We know Clara Prime was born…she flew in on a leaf, and dispersed in the Doctor’s time stream as the various claricles (but didn’t save any future Doctors we think) but there’s the lurking reference to her birth under, or near to, a clock tower.
I wonder what that means and if somehow, Missy, or someone else, is now working with Clara and this particular version of Clara is actually a zygon…and therefore mustn’t be trusted?
Good ‘eavens, it be midnight!
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17 September 2015 at 15:47 #42780@purofilion
Because who is she really?
Clara is the illegitimate Time Lady daughter of Missy and the Doctor, chameleon arched into a human being as a small baby and adopted by the Oswald family. A perception filter means that neither they or Clara remember that she is adopted.
The Doctor disapproved so strongly of her relationship with Danny because at some level he realised that Danny was in fact not only the twin brother of Orson, but that both boys were the long-lost twin sons of his grand-daughter Susan. Clara was, therefore, in grave danger of becoming her own Great Aunt.
Since all of the above is a Moffat loop, none of the conceptions (or the adoptions) have actually happened yet.
😀
17 September 2015 at 16:18 #42782@bluesqueakpip You took those thoughts right out of my head! 🙂
Basically, I love all these puzzles.
@blenkinsopthebrave Your not the only one confused about the toy soldier!
Tell the Mrs. its too late and there is no hope for the likes of us that have been
absorbed. It reminds me a bit like that ‘absorby’ alien in Love and Monsters. I feel
a bit like we are all part of Elton and Ursulla’s scooby group!
The Doctor says the Disc holds his confession but I don’t think its that. Me thinks he
lies again.17 September 2015 at 16:25 #42783Clara is the illegitimate Time Lady daughter of Missy and the Doctor, chameleon arched into a human being as a small baby and adopted by the Oswald family. A perception filter means that neither they or Clara remember that she is adopted.
A bonkers theory of genuine grandeur! I salute you!
Less convinced about the twins theory, but still suitably bonkers!
17 September 2015 at 17:11 #42784I have just watched this again, and read through all your comments. Although I haven’t looked at the trailers again as some of you have, here are my guesses for what they are worth.
“He has asked to see you” doesn’t entirely suggest an enemy to me. Or least, not a Davros/Master type of enemy. This is a request, and clearly not someone that intends the Doctor’s destruction (at least, not primarily). It sounds more like someone who needs the Doctor’s help, which the Doctor is not enthusiastic about giving, either because “He” is untrustworthy, or because the Doctor has mixed feelings about getting involved in whatever the situation is. Possibly both. I don’t think that “He” is Missy/Master or Davros, and I don’t think he is Rassilon (although a bit less sure on that one). I think he may be someone new (to us).
“That Creature”, on the other hand, could well be Missy/Master. “You owe that creature nothing” implies that it is someone the Doctor might be inclined to feel an obligation to. And the “An enemy’s just a friend/Aren’t we friends?/That’s different, I don’t like you” exchange, suggests that the Doctor definitely believes that the line between “friend” and “enemy” is pretty blurry (even non existent). This is rather suggestive of Missy/Master.
“You know who to give that to” clearly refers to a third someone. The Boom Box of Rassilon is probably either a message, or information of some kind. Maybe it’s the thing you do when you are going into danger– “If anything happens to me, I’ve left behind evidence that will prove your guilt.” I also like @whisht’s suggestion that it contains the means to restore Gallifrey. This would seem to fit inasmuch as calling in the Time Lords was always a last ditch solution for the Doctor!
“There are people that care enough to find you” suggests Clara. Like a few others, I think that this scene happens quite a bit later on in Series 9. I think at least some of the upcoming adventures have already happened by this point.
The Sister definitely feels friendship toward the Doctor, there is a sort of sisterly warmth in her expression at the end that suggests even affection. And she clearly understands him. I like the idea that the Doctor still has a friend somewhere in the universe with enough familiarity with both Time Lords in general and the Doctor in particular, that he can trust her in a crisis. And somewhere he can go for a kind of refuge when needed.
As with the trailers, I think it must be good fun to write this kind of thing. Gives nothing away really, but gives us lots to think about!
And kudos to @bluesqueakpip for a rather wonderful bonkers theory. 🙂
17 September 2015 at 17:38 #42786The Prologue?
As in Frankie Howerd’s Up Pompeii?
17 September 2015 at 18:29 #42787@toinfinityandbepond I sincerely hope not. If it is an ‘Up Pompeii’ type prologue, then there will be an interruption as soon as Saturday’s episode starts, and we will never learn what the story was supposed to be about 😉
17 September 2015 at 20:02 #42788@mudlark. Oh, I don’t know. There might be something in @toinfinityandbepond‘s idea. There is something rather appealing about the thought of Frankie Howerd’s Lurcius interacting with Peter Capaldi’s Caecilius…
Indeed, the Doctor’s new face might be result of one one of Frankie Howerd’s cringe-worthy double entendres. The more I think about the more I like it! I might see if I can re-interpret the Prologue in that light…
17 September 2015 at 20:26 #42789@blenkinsopthebrave Put like that, yes, it does have a certain appeal. What occurred to me, though, was that Lurcio never, ever got to deliver his prologue properly, and we never learned what tale or drama he had in mind because, invariably, he would be interrupted and called away to deal with some farcical imbroglio in which one or more members of the family had become entangled.
By that reckoning we would never discover who was looking for the Doctor, or the identity of the enemy, frenemy, and/or creature referred to, or what the DVD of Rassilon portended. Instead, the Doctor would find himself having to avert some disaster consequent on the complicated love lives of the Daleks 😮
18 September 2015 at 06:55 #42815I think Missy called the disc a “Confession Calendar. This is the last Will and Testament of the Doctor.” The sound’s a bit woozy right there; my conclusion, given Capdoc’s instruction to Ohila (“You know who to five this to”), is that the disc is given to Clara, who tries to use it to find the Doctor (for urgent reasons), can’t, so goes to Missy for her help, and sure enough, Missy knows that the gadget is and how to use it (“If I can’t find him, no one can”).
I think . . .
18 September 2015 at 09:17 #42826@ichabod This isn’t from the Prologue either!!! Is Missy in the Prologue? I thought it was just a disc at this stage?
I think you’re seeing something I can’t seem to find…or is it something you’re reading? You naughty thing! 🙂
18 September 2015 at 09:43 #42829@purofilion No, no, I saw it in one of the bits and pieces that keeps getting thrown onto my computer screen as I cruise around — they’ve put out so many teasers, in long and short forms with various mixes and matches of glimpses from here and there that I can’t identify the source of anything much — except everything I’ve put here comes from at least *one* of the BBC issued teaser clips for the two part opener.
On the other hand, I do have my naughty moments . . . just not about *important* stuff!
18 September 2015 at 12:34 #42841@purofilion
Hop over to the spoilers page…
18 September 2015 at 12:50 #42844He does look haggard I must say, but then playing the doctor is pretty gruelling work.
Thanks for the prologue Craig. Intreaging.
Missy
18 September 2015 at 13:24 #42846@ all. If you have Facebook you can now watch the Series 9 Prequel, “The Doctor’s Meditation”.
If it becomes more widely available I will start new thread for it.
https://www.facebook.com/DoctorWho/videos/vb.127031120644257/1207781699235855
19 September 2015 at 01:44 #42879Just watched it all I am saying is hmmmm yes it sounds like there are some spoilerish information in the prequel but to be honest it looked as if they are setting up for the first episode
19 September 2015 at 08:46 #42899The follow on to this prequel The Doctor’s Meditation is now available to view on Dailymotion if anyone wants to have a look.
After the oblique language and teasing of the first, I thought this a bit slighter, but very fun.
19 September 2015 at 08:50 #42901@phaseshift: I’m thinking it’s barely 9 am on a Saturday morning? Thank you for putting that up and, of necessity, getting up so early on a weekend. I looked (vainly) elsewhere and couldna see it.
P
19 September 2015 at 08:57 #42902The similarities with Tom Baker are astounding: except for a distinct lack of smiles.
“I’ve dug wells” (I’m reminded of Danny Pink’s assertion on Clara’s first date)
And, in honour of Tennant, a “visitor centre” (“I love a little shop”)
Right, out for Anniversary dinner 3.5 mins into prequel: But I shall have water, the finest in the hand..land. And not from any wells either.
Actually, I just want to stay home now. 🙂
:excited:
19 September 2015 at 09:28 #42903No problems @purofilion. I thought I’d post before going out for supplies for my ‘welcome back Doctor’ party.
There are some lovely moments in this. I thought Bors was a great sidekick, particularly the
Doctor: “I thought you were an idiot”
Bors: “I thought I was as well”
Doctor: “Good… I was worried I’d have to break it to you.”Lovely bit of business with the Tommy Cooper impression while playing with the coin as well. He was the original fez wearing magician, after all.
19 September 2015 at 10:44 #42911@phaseshift thank you!
when Mr Ilion was a young police officer with the London Met, it was his job to introduce the artists performing at Christmas dos. One year it was Tommy Cooper and a judge who was referred to as Mr Justice Cassells.
Cassells spoke about silence in relation to his own job but said “of course no-one knows more about silence than Mr Cooper” to which Tommy himself replied (equally tongue-in-cheek) “I respect Mr Justice Cassells who, being an idiot, is the best person to judge another.”
It is this humour which I was also brought up on and so the exchange between Bors and the Doctor is exactly what I was seeking.
The lightness before the dark I expect.
Just before the end at 5.50, or thereabouts ,when Bors asks the Doctor about his “being here” I swear I heard Amy’s theme?
I’m certain of it. But why?
19 September 2015 at 10:53 #42912Oh i loved that! Especially Bors! Fantastic character – liked him within just a couple of lines.
The Doctors “Attention deficit … something” made me chuckle.
Ah poor Doctor, running from the darkness and trying to put things off. Capaldi is just fab here. Serious to silliness and back again seemlessly.
So only a few hours to go! I would try meditating but i think my attention span is worse that the Doctors!
In the meantime everyone:
“Follow the squelchy!” 😀
(\(\;;/)/)
19 September 2015 at 11:10 #42914Is it me, or does Bors have a bit of a Baldrick vibe going on?
19 September 2015 at 15:02 #42948@purofilion
You’re quite right – but it was Little Amy’s Theme, Caitlin Blackwood’s theme rather than Karen Gillan’s.
I’m not sure whether it’s significant. It may be, but it may be that they used music from stock for the webisodes rather than having Murray Gold compose anything new.
19 September 2015 at 16:30 #42950@toinfinityandbeyond Baldric, yes! A very big, BIG Baldric, with an axe — run away, run away!
19 September 2015 at 16:46 #42951thank you for the link @phaseshift. I had forgotten that there was to be another minisode so was pleasantly surprised when I saw it. Also nice to see Caerphilly without CGI extras or fog. (The first time I visited it was shrouded in fog. All we saw was the moat.) Loved the reference to the Visitors’ Centre. Somehow it made the present seem unreal.
The boys rewound the final scene a couple of times and it was concluded here that the battlefield might well be Skaro at about the time of Genesis of the Daleks when they were running about with WWII style weapons. (Or maybe WWI.)
Maybe he intends to go back to then and do what he neglected to do in that story and thus prevent the Time War. Does not sound overly likely though. It is too late for bonkers theorising at the mo. Last sleep until the new series…
Cheers
Janette
20 September 2015 at 16:21 #43061Portable CD Player of Rassilon
That is just brilliant. And actually with what we find out about it in The Magician’s Apprentice, maybe not so far off. (Oh… and I definitely want one, haha)
It does look like this scene takes place before the events of TMA, but I agree, it’s highly likely there’s something VERY wibbly wobbly timey wimey going on in this series. Also agree that Capaldi is really beginning to really get his teeth into the role (and we viewers are also getting used to his intepretation of it). For all its beautifully rendered setting, this minisode sparks on a very classically simple 2 actors talking scene. Great to see Ohila back too.
(And well done @lisa 😉 )
21 September 2015 at 23:14 #43183Thanks for posting the Doctor’s Meditation @phaseshift. Missed it completely. A nice bit of (mostly) fun – poor Bors. But it was nice to see a bit more of him.
21 September 2015 at 23:37 #43186poor Bors
Actually, I thought Bors was treated rather shabbily as a character. In The Doctor’s Meditation he came across as a really likeable and comic character. He really had served the Doctor well, and would, in fact, have made a great companion. So to have him Dalekized in TMA was, I thought, a cruel waste of a good character and a good actor. I would have liked to have seen more Bors.
21 September 2015 at 23:59 #43187Agreed, but I watched it back to front, episode then the minisode, so I got more of Bors than I thought we were getting… if you see what I mean! Although just because he’s been dalekised doesn’t mean we definitely won’t see him again. Especially if the resolution to TMA involves rewriting timelines.
22 September 2015 at 03:43 #43213@scaryb and @blenkinsopthebrave I am hoping that Bors will be restored to full humanity by the end as I suspect that re writing the time lines is the solution to the dilemma. Bors was a good character and I would like to see him return from time to time. He could be the Doctor’s friend in the middle ages.
Cheers
Janette
22 September 2015 at 11:05 #43232I’m assuming that the Prologue will be on the Series nine box set.
@phaseshift Tommy cooper, brilliant magician and comedian. Loved him. Also many thanks for the ‘Doctor’s Mediatation’
I am so glad that I found this forum. Roll on Sunday.
Cheers
Missy
22 September 2015 at 12:12 #43234The other possibility is that, like Tasha Lem, he’ll prove capable of resisting Dalekisation. They made a big thing in the prologue of his being stupid; it’s possible he’s too stupid to get rid of the idea that the Doctor’s his friend.
Of course, it depends on whether he’s more than a one-episode character – who’s meant to show us that Davros/the Daleks are now deliberately targeting the Doctor’s friends. They did that before, in Asylum.
I’d agree that ‘time-lines’ has something to do with the solution. We’re being written into a hole, here, where the Doctor can’t have any friends because they have this big target over their heads.
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