Sherlock: The Abominable Bride
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Craig 6 years, 2 months ago.
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7 January 2016 at 04:56 #500247 January 2016 at 13:37 #50028
@ichabod oh I have no doubt that ACD WANTED to divest himself of Holmes, but of course he ultimately didn’t. After all, that was a pretty lucrative character.
I would be more convinced that he intended no out if at the end Watson was there, desperately holding onto Holmes, losing his grip and witnessing his fall, and then finally recovering and identifying the body. THAT is the author saying “I mean it. He’s done!” 🙂
7 January 2016 at 14:25 #50029Hear, hear.
In many respects, I thought the Abominable Bride was one of the best Sherlock outings by Gatiss and Moffat, particularly in the way it has grown from the seeds it planted back 2010. To have simply recycled the (considerable) strengths of that first series would have diminished the show.
What I love about it as a show in general is the sheer story-telling audacity of Gatiss and Moffat. It is like listening to a new musical composition by a favourite composer, and discovering to your delight that the hairs are standing up on the back of your neck when the piece is finished.
(And on another topic, and running with the musical theme, it has been a while since have heard of @puroandson. I trust the new year is treating all in Brisbane well.)
7 January 2016 at 17:02 #50030@jimthefish What an excellent fish! I particularly appreciate the comments on the KKK/Suffragette scene, a weird little phantasmagoria if ever there was one . . . and, that which can never be insisted upon too often, the fact that not liking a particular tv show isn’t proof that the show is bad. It’s just a clear sign that the show in question wasn’t made by and for you, to your personal specifications. Nor does this prevent you from imagining your own version of the show inside your head, or even outside your head as fanfic.
7 January 2016 at 17:17 #50031@brewski I would be more convinced that he intended no out if at the end Watson was there, desperately holding onto Holmes, losing his grip and witnessing his fall, and then finally recovering and identifying the body. THAT is the author saying “I mean it. He’s done!” 🙂
Well, yeah . . . hard to argue with that. Perhaps ACD’s intention was not to drag his hero down to dusty death before our (and Watson’s) eyes, but to send him out with a titanic struggle of Brain Giants of Good and Evil, something suitably grand glimpsed as a distant vision, fitting for the lofty and edifying ending of a story that his readers had elevated to a sort of mythology and to which its chronicler Watson was in the end essentially an outside observer.
8 January 2016 at 13:27 #50045@ichabod I don’t disagree with you about that. It’s just that Holmes’ subsequent “Guess what, I’m not dead”, to me, undermines that grand ending somewhat.
Don’t get me wrong. I have adored those books since I was 10 and first discovered the Readers Digest version of them on my parents book shelf. I hope you don’t think I mean to diminish them in any way by what I’ve said.
8 January 2016 at 17:39 #50048@brewski Oh gosh, no, of course not! I see what you mean, and was only saying that it looks to me as if ACD was quite serious about “killing” Holmes. He wrote letters expressing his annoyance at the success of what he regarded as light entertainment, and wanted badly to highlight his more serious work, so it was a he really was trying to get out from under that particular brand of success. I read a couple of biographies of the Great Man back in my teens, and I remember the stress placed on how astonished and dismayed he seems to have been by the public outcry over Reichenbach Falls. He even had some threats from the reading public over it, and so much nagging from his publishers (was it The Strand that ran the stories as serials?) that he gave in before long.
9 January 2016 at 12:32 #50055@ichabod Fans have not changed so much then after all. Had they had BTL back in ACD’s days the abuse would have been akin to that dished up to Moffat etc.
@jimthefish. That was a very well written piece. Thanks for sharing it.
I too have noticed the absence of @puroandson and I hope all is well and it is just the holiday break keeping them preoccupied.
Cheers
Janette
10 January 2016 at 02:37 #50060Good news, and not so good news!
The Abominable Bride is on its way! *Jumps up and down – carefully.*
A friend also wanted a copy for her birthday, so I altered my order to The Abominable Bride x 2.
The not so good news, is that lurking somewhere on my *wishlist* must have been another reference to it.
Consequently, 3 copies are on their way!!!!!
Can I sell it to any of you?
Yes, I know that I could return it to amazon but I went through that with Merlin ( three of the specials
wouldn’t work)a few months ago and it was hellish. Fortunately the chap in the PO knew what had to be done and
took care of it for me, but I’m not going through that again.
If not, I’ll just keep the spare as back-up. *grins*
Cheers,
Missy
11 January 2016 at 19:04 #50082@ichabod Yes, I recall reading stories of the public outcry over the killing off of the character. Not quite the same as with Superman. 😉
If I remember my chronology correctly, Doyle wrote a number of stories after that which predated the final problem. But that wasn’t quite good enough to satisfy the public, I guess.
12 January 2016 at 02:06 #50086@brewski Yes, I recall reading stories of the public outcry over the killing off of the character. Not quite the same as with Superman. 😉
No, not quite the same . . . ! I think serialized fiction in the papers was a very big deal especially for working class people who didn’t buy books but followed Dickens’ serials with rabid attention; so losing popular fictional characters from the newspapers might have been more like canceling a huge hit on Tv when there were only a couple of channels to choose from . . . ?
12 January 2016 at 09:24 #50090Anonymous @
@jimthefish @blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb
thank you for your kindness -fear not, all is well-ish.
I took a trip with Son to see my brother -and there was a nurse involved.
That probably didn’t come out right. 🙂
In any case, I had a restful time seeing parts of Sydney I used to visit a lot -as well as ol’ pals (school/university) and extended family. It was a bit much, I admit, but I’m glad I did it.
Actually, I should be speaking about this on The Sofa….sooo, I haven’t see The Abominable Bride and have nothing to add-except I trust The Moff to do his business very well and am looking forward in anticipation rather than biting my nails muttering: “will it be good? Will I like it? I certainly hope I do.”
I am confident!
14 January 2016 at 07:46 #50126Just a thought…. Mycroft left a very insidious computer virus that goes off and threatens to destroy the entire world by releasing nuclear war.
14 January 2016 at 07:53 #50127@puroandson Hello! Hope you and your son are doing well…in my prayers daily. 🙂 Yes, Moffat somehow managed to create nothing but masterpieces this year.
14 January 2016 at 08:31 #50128hallo to you too!! Thank you. Indeed he did. OK. I haven’t see TAB but I can time shift…:)
14 January 2016 at 16:02 #50135Yikes, I meant Moriarty, not Mycroft. Goodness I stay up too late. My thought was that Moriarty left a very insidious computer virus that goes off and threatens to destroy the entire world by releasing nuclear war after he died.
15 January 2016 at 06:27 #50154@kharis Hmm. A bit like that daft bloviater Hydroflax in “Husbands”, with his exploding booby-trap body.
19 January 2016 at 02:49 #50228About ACD and Holmes, and the reaction to his “death” —
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160106-how-sherlock-holmes-changed-the-world
19 January 2016 at 03:17 #5022919 January 2016 at 05:25 #50231@purandson PuroSolo — You are so welcome! Just think — 20,000 Strand cancellations would be significant even today. “Justifiable homicide” indeed! I’ve read some of ACD’s comments in correspondence. I went through my Sherlock Holmes phase like almost everyone else, in my teens, and read at least one biography of ADC — and that was well before the modern phenomenon of “fandoms” flowered into what it is today (I’m speaking of the fifties). ADC was *very* pissed off, and probably still would be today, to see his historical novels vanish under the avid popularity of Holmes and Watson. 120 yrs is pretty impressive. And of course the device of regeneration has allowed the Doctor to change with the times, much as Holmes has in the mass media.
My spouse’s law firm had a partner (copyright and intellectual property) who was a member of the Baker Street Irregulars (fan clubs). They have meetings in Santa Fe that Saul would attend; he was much the liveliest, most cheerful, and quickest-minded of the partners. Holmes, like the Doctor, doesn’t attract dunderheads.
Well. Not that many . . .
19 January 2016 at 11:45 #50240@ichabod @puroandson
I keep seeing ACD and thinking “…something..compulsive disorder.”
Which feels about right :).
19 January 2016 at 19:17 #5025221 January 2016 at 07:35 #50298Sherlock – series 4, may not be back in 2017, due to Mr Cumberbatches’s work load.
Just a tick whilst I go off and scream quietly!
Gutted
Missy
26 January 2016 at 04:43 #50507Having put this on the Book thread and receiving no reply, I thought I’d bung it on here where it might be seen.
Has anyone read or listened to THE LAST SHERLOCK HOLMES STORY, by Michael Dibdin?
Fascinating and very clever.
Cheers,
Missy
23 April 2016 at 20:10 #51830@missy
I haven’t read that story, but as a Sherlockian who has read (almost) every ACD story, I’m interested to hear a summary.23 April 2016 at 20:14 #51831Just an update on Sherlock for anyone who hasn’t heard. Season 4 filming is in progress, and it is rumored to air January 2017.
24 April 2016 at 05:41 #51843@d-i-yana
I don’t think I should give a summary. This is one of those stories where a summary would give the game away – sorry.
See if you can borrow it from the library.Cheers,
Missy
24 April 2016 at 11:46 #51852I completely understand. I’ll give it a try when I have a break from work. 😉
1 May 2016 at 16:46 #52027Buckle up. This post is going to be a long one, but I’ve decided to split this into two parts. 😉
I only noticed that there is a place to write in on this episode a few weeks ago and haven’t gotten a chance until now. Sherlock is my favorite TV show (is it safe to say that on a Doctor Who forum?), and I have already seen the episode 4 times. I was already excited before watching the episode (I had waited two years for this!)
Some fans gave reviews of it being “confusing” or “a disappointment”, but are they really fans? I was expecting fans to be excited about the plot twist. Real fans, myself included, we’re saying that it might even be their favorite episode so far.
I wish I could have filmed my reaction when John turned over the note reading *spoilers from this point on* Miss me?
There is rarely any action in between seasons, so I can’t help following Setlock to get a taste of the show on hiatus. This means that I had my suspicions of an appearance by Andrew Scott, but what I didn’t know was the second and even bigger plot twist. With the words of James Moriarty himself, “It’s not the fall that kills you. It’s never the fall. It’s the landing,” we were brought back into reality.This is where the show took a whole new turn. There are quite a few things I enjoyed about the modern day scenes. First of all, Sherlock states that Moriarty is dead, but he knows what he will do next. I have tossed this line around in my mind, and I am still lost about whether he really is dead because rule 1: Moffat lies. Also, this wouldn’t be the first time Sherlock is wrong.
Backing up to the plane scene, the whole drug scene was very emotional. From John’s sad and horrified face at the realization of Sherlock’s problem to Mycroft’s most touching line,”I will always be there for you,” I thought this entire scene was beautiful.
Backing up even further, I love how another case is used in attempt to solve Moriarty’s. A second gun couldn’t have been used because he shook Sherlock’s hand, but could it be twins? I’m personally hoping for something more creative involving an excuse for Andrew Scott to come back (such a talented actor).
The Reichenbach fall scene was legendary. The newspaper mind palace scene and the outdoors Baker Street scene both had brilliant editing. John failing at BSL was hilarious. What’s not to like about this episode? (End of Part 1)
1 May 2016 at 17:00 #52028On to a shorter part two! Again, this post includes Sherlock spoilers for episode 10.
The usual mix of comedy and drama was there, and even though I had thought that the modern setting was something I liked best about the series, the Victorian setting worked perfectly. (It is the correct setting, after all.) It was very easy to get used to. I even started calling Sherlock and John, Holmes and Watson for a few weeks after my first viewing of the episode.
What I didn’t notice until a second and even third viewing were all of the modern day hints. The most commented on was Mycroft’s line, “The virus in the data.” A blink (Don’t blink!) and you’ll miss it moment was when Holmes and Watson were in a cab to find Mary who is supposedly in danger (this is after the mind palace twist has been revealed) Watson becomes John in modern clothes for a second calling Sherlock by his first name before changing back to Watson. Behind the scenes, it was stated that a deleted scenes included Holmes seeing his reflection as Sherlock.
There are so many great theories to discuss after this episode, but oddly, the one that stood out to me the most was a single word…Redbeard. but I think that deserves it’s own post entirely.
Thanks for reading!
1 May 2016 at 17:19 #52030Might as well discuss my Redbeard Theory now (SPOILERS FOR POTENTIALLY ALL OF SHERLOCK EPISODES).
Redbeard has now appeared a total of 5 times. It was first mentioned in The Sign of Three when Mycroft asked Sherlock, “Do you remember Redbeard?”
It was revealed in His Last Vow that Redbeard was Sherlock’s irish setter who was put down (for reasons unknown) when Sherlock was a kid, probably based on the appearance of young Sherlock, when Sherlock was between 9 and 12 years old.
Magnussen labels Redbeard as a pressure point when he “reads” Sherlock in Baker Street. (Loved that glasses/memory thing btw.)
The last two times were in this last special episode. First, when Holmes and Watson are waiting for the ghost, Holmes hears dogs barking and whispers Redbeard. Note that this us immediately after Watson discusses Holmes’s avoidance of any relationships.
The final time was on the airplane written in Mycroft’s notebook.
If you think about it, it is known that Sherlock didn’t have friends as a kid, so Redbeard would have been his only friend before he was put down. This could cause enough trauma that Sherlock became afraid of getting close to anyone and losing them. It doesn’t help that as soon as he gets close to John, Moriarty threatens his life.
I am sure that Redbeard will come up again in season 4 or 5 (both have been planned out), and I can’t wait to find how the meaning behind it all.
If anyone is interested, there are a few interesting theories about the connection between Redbeard and the third Holmes brother. “You know what happened to the other one.”
Which reminds me of something interesting I noticed. There is an Irish Setter at the beginning of the Baskerville episode. Could Redbeard have been put down after being tested on at Baskerville? Just an improbable theory.
2 May 2016 at 05:46 #52052@d-i-yana
You will understand even more when you read/listen to it.
Cheers,
Missy
2 May 2016 at 06:01 #52054@theconsultingdoctor
Well, I appreciate that all of us are different and see things in a different light, but I cannot for the life of me understand the criticism aimed at The Abominable Bride.
It was brilliant. Moffat and Gatiss surpassed themselves. I didn’t find it confusing at all, because if you ‘get’ Moffat, you ‘get’ TAB.
One of the things I admire about the two writers’ is their insistance in doing what THEY want, not what they think the fans would like.
We know that Silver Blaze is one of the stories, but what else they have in store for us? Who knows.
Series four can’t come quickly enough for me – I’m wishuing my life away. *grins*cheers,
Missy
2 May 2016 at 12:58 #52061I can’t believe it either. It was in and out of realities, but it was still easy to follow.
I am so excited about the Silver Blaze. It is one of my favorite ACD short stories.
2 May 2016 at 13:46 #52062@missy @theconsultingdoctor
Silver Blaze was definitely one of the best stories from the memoirs collection along with the crooked man and the final problem for me!
As for ACD’s best short stories it has to go to almost anything from The Return of Sherlock Holmes, The six napoleons is brilliant for me!
I watched the abominable bride with my family and they all thought it was to confusing and not very good whereas I thought it was suitably scary,clever and fun! So yes I agree that I don’t get where all the bad reviews are coming from, it may not be my favourite Sherlock episode but then that doesn’t mean it isn’t brilliant!
2 May 2016 at 15:15 #52064The first story I read was A Scandal in Bohemia. I just reread The Final Problem and nearly cried reading the note Holmes left for Watson. It was interesting to notice the parallels between the story and the Reichenbach Fall.
I think all of the episodes are brilliant, but the two at the top of my list are His Last Vow and the Reichenbach Fall.
2 May 2016 at 15:36 #52065Do either of you ship Sherlolly or Johnlock? Or are you not into that kind of thing?
3 May 2016 at 00:06 #52068@theconsultingdoctor
Isn’t Watson married?
I guess I’m not into shipping. In this instance there’s a real feminist element -though not an ideology.
Puro.
3 May 2016 at 00:19 #52069@theconsultingdoctor
Oh God. Not shipping.
Just. No.
3 May 2016 at 01:00 #52070@puroandson @pedant
LOL No worries. I don’t ship them either. (Well, maybe Sherlolly a little.) I was just asking because I know they are two common ships in the fandom.
Yes, John is married to Mary, and I hope it stays that way. Besides, they have a baby on the way. Super excited about it!
3 May 2016 at 01:46 #52071@Theconsultingdoctor
It’s gotta be my pain meds, but what’s “sherlolly?”
I get JohnLock but Sherlock Holmes and John Watson don’t make “lolly” from nothing!
Am I utterly confus-ed or just dumb? <<*\*>>
Probably the latter (morphine induc-ed) but Sherlolly? I just don’t get it 🙂
LOL. Okay, that’s a bit fun!
But generally like @pedant I’m not into shipping. I recall, about 18 months ago when I first watched Buffy (which changed my life) I recall someone mention ‘shipping’ and I was all, “huh?”
It was @pedant @scaryb who explained, kindly, the definition.
Btw, @scaryb how are you, dear? Is all well? Haven’t seen you on the boards for a while and am assuming you’re overloaded with work or perhaps on a very long holiday . I would prefer the latter for you: somewhere with cocktails, a view, a beach, breakfast in bed and a long novel -or, you know, short stories; I’ll allow you those! But no fan mags like Who and Cosmo. Absolutely not!🙂
Kindest, PuroSolo
3 May 2016 at 01:51 #52072@Theconsultingdoctor
Btw, I have been very interested in your theories regarding Redbeard and your enjoyment of the film (which I only saw awhile ago) is really contagious!
I enjoyed it too -perhaps it didn’t “do” it for me like the modern day versions but I’ve only given it the one chance and need to rewatch it to catch your “don’t blink” moments. The stunning cinematography was eye catching and beautifully worked out. I enjoyed the transformation to Victorian London too.
3 May 2016 at 02:07 #52073@puroandson
I wouldn’t have picked the name Sherlolly myself. Perhaps Hooplock, but that along with any other variation does sound strange. It is Sherlock and Molly Hooper (the pathologist). I think that the two characters have an interesting and evolving relationship.
I wasn’t into the whole shipping thing at first, but sometimes there are just characters that I would love to end up together. Sherlolly (Sherlock/Molly) first came to my attention when watching the Christmas party scene in A Scandal in Belgravia. I got even more into their possible relationship after coming across (and I rarely, even usually try to avoid, reading fan fiction, but…) a wonderfully written story titled I Told You So by Writingwife83. She is pretty much the only truly talented fan fiction writer I have come across (because I haven’t read enough to find many others). I really hope she writes some original RomComs (her specialty) to be published. It is a beautiful story which I highly recommend.
I would be happy to explain my Redbeard Theory soon, but I am out of time for now. I will get back to you on it.
3 May 2016 at 02:34 #52074@Theconsultingdoctor
Ah, Molly Hooper! Of course! That totally explains it. She’s a lovely character, isn’t she? The brains, the talent, the legs…and I love her personality and her general care and compassion. Wonderful.
No, I don’t read fanfic much either but what you’ve recommended sounds intriguing. A friend recently showed me some short stories which are terrific. He’s a great writer who adds layers of questioning and puzzles to surprisingly short works and whilst I don’t usually read a lot of short stories there are some great writers out there.
Years ago, a friend of mine, Nick Earls, published some lovely short stories and Anita Byatt, normally a writer of intense long novels had a go at short stories too – a fascinating twist and turn down a cul de sac -or rabbit hole depending which way you look at it.
Judging by the hour, I don’t think you’re in the UK? 🙂 Unless you’re a night owl like quite a few of the Who Forum members!
Kindest,
PuroSolo
3 May 2016 at 02:48 #52075@puroandson
Molly is such a sweet character. I can relate to her in some ways. She is also, I think, the only one besides John who truly understands Sherlock.
The fic is a bit long going by the word count, but the plot is quick enough that I managed to knock it out in two days.
And I guess there is no harm in saying I’m in the states. Not even ten p.m. here yet.
3 May 2016 at 04:00 #52076My mind is only on Sherlock right now as it often is. I believe this question was already answered by someone else, but it leads me to another point so I hope you will forgive me for answering a second time. The list Sherlock gave to Mycroft was of the drugs he had taken. What I want answered in Season 4 is what else Mycroft keeps filed in that notebook of his. It has been confirmed by Mark Gatiss that it is the same notebook from the scene in episode one with Mycroft and John’s first meeting.
Also, looking back at another one of your old posts, could you remind me of the the reference to the third Holmes sibling in TAB. I only remember Mycroft mentioning “the other one” in HLV. Thank you!
3 May 2016 at 06:09 #52078I really enjoyed reading all the posts and thank you for explaining Sherlolly.
Now would some kind soul explain what ‘shipping’ means please?Cheers,
Missy
3 May 2016 at 11:33 #52089Obsessively (to the point of psychiatric disorder) longing for two given characters to get it on, and a cancer on reasonable discussion in a story that is not primarily a romance. From “relationship.”
At least one fan board I know banned it with extreme prejudice.
3 May 2016 at 14:32 #52090Wi-Fi at work has been acting up, so sorry if this is posted twice.
In a less extreme definition, shipping means wanting two characters to end up together. “To ship” is short for “relationship”. It doesn’t have to be obsessive. It’s just for fun. For example, I was happy at the end of the episode Before the Flood because I ship Cass and Lunn. (Think I spelled their names right.)
3 May 2016 at 22:32 #52103Hello everyone!
Quite an amusing discussion going on here now @missy I didn’t know what to ship someone was either!
I’m not really into that kind of stuff but it’s quite fun to read all your posts about it!
All this talk of Sherlock is getting me very excited for series 4! Already!
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