Spoilers (4)

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This topic contains 321 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  blenkinsopthebrave 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #72715
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Was just reading (IMDB) that the cast list for the final JW show (where she presumably regenerates) will include both Sacha Dhawan and John Sim as the Master. I am sure I am supposed to be more excited by this news than I am.

     

     

    #72716
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Surely they’re not trying for a repeat of the capaldi exit but instead of a good master and a bad master they’re going bad and mad  though if they’re bringing Sims and Dhawan back surely they could stretch to Gomez she was great.

     

    #72717
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave and @devilishrobby

    It’ll be a shame if they’re just trying to replicate The Doctor Falls but I’d be delighted if it’s for a regeneration crossover, thus retaining Missy’s canonical status as the Last Master.

    #72718
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish

    It is probably the effect of all the Christmas mulled wine, but you have to explain to me: a) a regeneration crossover (?) and b) Missy’s canonical status as the last Master.

     

    #72721
    janetteB @janetteb

    @blenkinsopthebrave and @jimthefish. I think Jim the fish is suggesting that Sim/Master regenerates into Dhawan/Master who then regenerates into Missy thus honouring the events of the Capaldi story, (ie as opposed to what he did with Gallifrey) though in this instance i doubt even Moffat expected that to be the end of The Master.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #72722
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @janetteb

    That’s pretty much it — I just think a reset to a mad, bad Master after all the character work put into Missy is kind of a waste…

    #72723
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @janetteb, @jimthefish, Thanks for that, but I tend to wonder if Chibnall even thinks on that level. He seems to have a very wonky knowledge of the history of Who (case in point: the reference to the Brigadier as “our new corporal”. I honestly believe he is not interested in learning enough about the history of Who to be faithful to it.) Anyway, tomorrow, and following the destruction of almost the entire Dalek race (and most of the universe) in “Flux”, a jolly comedy with…Daleks.

    #72724
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Hmm @blenkinsopthebrave I think you’ve hit it on the head Chibnall hasn’t paid enough respect to past  show cannon. Now don’t get me wrong I’ve no problem with there being changes to the established cannon but it needed to fit in so to speak. I always felt there was supposed to be more to the doctors past and if I remember right there was some mention (i think in the 5 doctors anniversary show) that early timelords like Rassalon had regeneration cycles that made them near immortal but Chibnall over the last 2 seasons has essentially driven a wrecking ball through established cannon.

    #72730
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @blenkinsopthebrave I think we’ve been a bit spoiled (haha, spoilers thread! 😉 ) by RTD’s and Moff’s incredibly in depth knowledge of Dr Who. Even when they changed things, it was with a knowledgeable and loving wink/nod to what had gone before.

    @jimthefish IMDB are notorious for not having complete listings, and for picking up false info (or misinfo fed to them by Dr Who on previous occasions). Not sure that the Chibs team is that PR aware though. I know, I’m just hanging on to a very thin thread, hoping for a Missy return.

    #72847
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Placing this here as it is more an unsubstantiated rumour but has anyone seen some of the the non BBC  online rumour that David Tenant may and I repeat may be being considered as the 14th Doctor though a precedence may have been created in Day of the Doctor with Tom Bakers Cameo as the Curator and suggestion that he was a future doctor reprising the face. Personally I think it’s more likely he’s going to be cast in the 60th if he going to return as the Doctor. Though I do have a bit of a problem with that as it will potentially be the new Doctors first episode given that Jodies exit is going to be in the 3rd special due to be broadcast as part of the BBCs Centenary celebrations late this year. Given the timing I now suspect that will mean that there will not be a Xmas/ New Year special episode unless the RTDs first new  series is going to launch perhaps New Years Day thus giving the new Doctor time to establish him/herself ahead of a multi Doctor anniversary 60th Special. My reasoning for this is that Tennant has already stated he would be happy to be involved in the 60th celebrations as has Smith. Though having the anniversary special a Multi Doctor  fest has become kind of tradition if they do let it not be a re-hash of Day of Doctor it will need to be sufficiently different. Perhaps the incarnations of the Doctor being subscripted by the  White Gardian for example to save the universe… oh they’ve already done that kind of with the Key to Time Story  Arc in PGWho.

    #72848
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @devilishrobby, I read the Radio Times article, and it seems clear the rumour was more of a fan speculation than anything else. I would be quite surprised if Tennant actually came back full-time.  But a multi-Doctor show on 23 Nov 2023…? That seems to be highly likely. As for when an announcement of a new Doctor is going to be made, I know that JW has long since filmed her last special, but that doesn’t mean the brief appearance of the new Doctor could not still be added; even as a post-credit sequence.

    #72853
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @blenkinssopthebrave as I said in my original post I had realised that the news that Tennent was possibly going to be 14  was coming from non BBC  online sources and was probably highly suspicious. As you say it’s more likely Tennent will reprise his role as 10 if the 60th anniversary special is a multi-doc story.

    My main point is the way a lot of the the interviews appear to indicate that RTD will be doing the anniversary special then the series which in my opinion is the wrong way round as I feel they need to let 14 establish themselves as the Doctor before having a new doctor in a multi-doctor special. Now it may be that the interviews were in part a bit misleading as they were concentrating at the time on the the 60th anniversary special and then the fact he was headlining the production of Who going forward, and given the way Jodie is leaving at the end of a series of Specials with no real announcement of how the show is going to proceed after Jodies departure to begin the new Doctors tenure ie is there going to be a new series starting early 2023 either New Year or possibly Easter to co-inside the anniversary of RTD’s NuWho  or as another special which will essentially introduce/establish  the new Doctor much like Tennants start in the Christmas Invasion.

    The fact that Jodie has already finished her filming as you say is no problem, with todays filming technology the regeneration scene can be done with the actors at different times. Obviously the decision will have to be relatively soonish as it will have to be filmed and inserted into the final scenes of the third Special.

    The other thing I was thinking given the timing of the specials this year and the circumstances that they will be introducing the new Doctor it will possibly mean there will be no Xmas/New Year special this year, which would be disappointing but on the other hand would possibly increase the likelihood that the new Doctors introduction will be in a Tennant style Special during the festive special

    #72972
    nerys @nerys

    @devilishrobby I wonder if the new Doctor will be introduced in the 60th anniversary special? Or maybe we’ll get a look at “the eyebrows” … as with our brief intro to Peter Capaldi during the 50th anniversary special. We weren’t fully introduced to the new Doctor, just got a little tease before his official introduction later on. Of course, “The Day of the Doctor” joined forces between Matt Smith’s Doctor, the current one at that time, with his predecessor, David Tennant, and John Hurt’s War Doctor. As you noted, Jodie Whittaker has finished filming, so it sounds like she would not be a part of this special (although I have read that she might return for it). If that’s the case, no continuity there. it may be that, if the special precedes the series, then it will be our introduction to the 14th Doctor.

    #73150
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    Good heavens, RTD has been barely back on the block and he’s already left us more room for bonkerising than Chibs did in his whole run. Just to collate the current scuttlebutt in one place (and based upon the grabs from the recent filming, here are some of the more pressing questions.

    Who is Tennant playing? The slightly altered costume seems to suggest that we’re not talking about a previously unseen Tenth Doctor adventure here but something new. He could be the meta-crisis Doctor from Journey’s End or it could be that JW is going to regenerate into Tennant (fulfilling the Curator’s prophecy of revisiting some of the old favourite faces). Not sure how I feel about this concept (or the rumours that Tennant is going to stick around for a series of specials before regenerating into Gatwa — although it strikes me as distinctly possible. The return of Tennant is going to rather overshadow JW’s regeneration as it is. To have a new Doc having to compete with him too might be a bit of a tall order too.)

    Who is Rose? RTD does like teasing fans with similar names to much-loved characters but it doesn’t look like Yasmin Finney’s character is the Rose. Current speculation seems to have her as Donna’s daughter, which is interesting. But I’m not sure this means the original Rose won’t be coming back. We’ve got a year to go and I suspect there’s going to be a few announcements of familiar faces in that time.

    #73151
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish The other suggestion I read about Yasmin Finney’s Rose is that she could be Bel and Vinder’s child. I find a certain appeal in that, but everything so far seems to indicate that RTD is only including characters from RTD’s tenure. I hope that is not true, as there is a lot more to the history of Who than the RTD years. If it was up to me, I would bring back the Zarbi. But that probably demonstrates why nobody would leave it up to me…

    #73154
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Ooh, I never thought of that. That might be quite nice actually and might even make there being a point to having them in the first place.

    And I second your Zarbi idea plus Chumblies (ideally in the same episode). But seriously, along with the Wirrn, they are creatures who could be done far more justice with modern CGI….

    #73239
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Filming is underway for the 60th anniversary, and in the cast is Neil Patrick Harris (so brilliant in “A Series of Unfortunate Events”) and here he is in costume for his role in Who.

     

    #73240
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    I am sure RTD has a completely new character in mind for Harris, but there is something about the look of him above that seems to say: The Celestial Toymaker.

    #73241
    janetteB @janetteb

    @blenkinsopthebrave I was greeted by the news when I walked into the house this afternoon. He does indeed have a look of the Celestial Toymaker about him and  I think he would be perfect in the role.

    I feel as though RTD is throwing everything he can into the special, which is his style. It won’t be subtle and will be very different to Moffat’s special but hopefully it will be crazy and fun and that is what Dr Who needs more of right now.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #73255
    Brewski @brewski

    Because it’s RTD and Donna with what appears to be an alternate Ten, I am going to take a page from “Turn Left” and say this has to do with the Trickster.  Perhaps Neil Patrick Harris is a member of his Brigade…?

    #73256
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @brewski possibly though I tend to agree with the general consensus that Harris may be playing the Celestial Toymaker who as I remember is one of the celestial immortal figures much like the black and white guardians . Having said that it may be the Trickster may just be another name for the Celestial Toymaker. Also it all depends on if  or by how much RTD is going to roll back on the Doctor being the Timeless Child, cause RTD a lot of respect for Who lore and in the PreGap era,  especially in the McCoy era the were hints that he had been known as the Trickster

    #73257
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @brewski, @devilishrobby, I confess that I don’t know enough (well, anything actually) about the Trickster, and that my thought about the Celestial Toymaker is a wish rather than a well thought out theory, but I firmly believe that RTD will want to dazzle us all with the 60th. To go back to his appearance in “The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot”, perhaps he will give his new Doctor the catchphrase “quel dommage”. Now that would be very RTD!

     

    #73258
    Brewski @brewski

    @devilishrobby and @blenkinsopthebrave, thanks for the feedback.  I have changed my mind a little. The Trickster isn’t a very good fit for the character.  But then, for me, neither is the Toymaker.  I just can’t reconcile the image of NPH with that character.

    I still think we’re looking at an Alternate/Altered reality.  I still think it happened at the time of Turn Left.  I think it changed the way Donna behaved during the Runaway Bride.

    I think Alternate Donna stayed with Alternate Doctor and it was HER instead of Martha who travelled with him to the year 100 trillion where they met…

    Alternate Professor Yana.

    THAT looks much more like the character we see in the post (to me).

     

    #73263
    winston @winston

    It looks like it will be great fun , but so far away.

    #73298
    Brewski @brewski

    Had another bonkers idea:

    What if something goes wrong with the regeneration.  Perhaps brought about by the new Big Bad.

    The regeneration process is reversed, the Doctor undergoes a DEgeneration.  It results in a variant version of 10. Not only that, it may even create a series of splinter previous alternate Docs. Each could be played by the original actor but with all kinds of differences (and ages).

     

    #73299
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @brewski It’s crazy, and therefore I like it!

    The alternative (given current political factors in the UK) could be a re-generation of alternative versions of Harold Saxon, each version played by the current contenders to become Prime Minister. (of course, all of them would come across as more scary than Harold Saxon…)

    But back to your great idea, why why the 10th?

    #73300
    Brewski @brewski

    It’s crazy, and therefore I like it!

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    lol.  That’s why where here, right?

    But back to your great idea, why why the 10th?

    The 10th is the only one we know about. The only one deliberately shown being filmed (aka generating a buzz).  For all we know he will only be seen for a brief time before degenerating further.

    Or if there are multiple split-degenerations, we could many of them at once, even Classic Doctors.

    #73306
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Ok this is speculation as far as I can see, but for those of you who follow YouTube commentators on Who especially Tharis (who in the past I’ve noticed  does tend to be fairly balanced in his posts) it has been reported by him that there has been an article ( I’m not sure where) which reportedly has Disney in negotiations with the Beeb to Stream Dr Who from the next season. In a lot of ways I sure as hell hope this is either false or falls through. Personally I can’t see the Beeb giving up the rights to worldwide streaming when it has its own BBC worldwide services, but given the way Disney have seemingly appear to have  been aggressively buying up the rights to screen various series on their Disney+ platform sometimes at the expense of the traditional fan base ability to view their favourite shows.

    #73307
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @devilishrobby

    https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-disney-plus-talks-newsupdate/

    I fear the worst. Disney+ is to independent TV shows, what Amazon is to independent bookstores.

    #73308
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @blenkinsopthebrave well as I said I hope the hell it falls through it would be a sad day for the who fandom

    #73367
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Yes, I know that IMDB is notoriously unreliable, but…

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0257920/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

    Note his most recent role.

    #73368
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @blenkinsopthebrave 👀 well if true that feels great and as one of the still surviving original cast is certainly deserved as either part of the BBC Centenary for one of its iconic series’s though that puts him in JWs departure story, and he would have certainly been a deserved cameo as part of the 60th celebrations.

    #73369
    janetteB @janetteb

    @blenkinsopthebrave.  I wondered if that little clips was a prelude to something bigger but did not check when it came out. Very excited about Ian getting to make a reappearance though as @devilishrobby says, it might have been better had it been for the 60th. I no longer have any faith in Chibnell’s writing.

    cheers

    Janette

    #73370
    janetteB @janetteb

    It is from 2018 so not related. Just watching it now.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #73623
    Brewski @brewski

    Some bonkers thoughts about the 60th trailer:

    It starts with the new Doctor (I’m gonna call him Tenn-Doc) saying, “I don’t know who I am anymore”.

    Why? The last thing this version of the Doctor said was that he “[didn’t] want to go”.  Moreover, the Curator already predicted that he would “revisit a few” old favorite faces.

    So why is he confused?  He should be delighted.

    And then at the end we see Gat-Doc angrily asking, “What the hell is going on here?!”

    Not what JUST HAPPENED?  What IS GOING ON?  Meaning it is not something that he just regenerated out of, but is something that is still happening.

    Does this tell us that he is switching between himself and Tenn-Doc?!

    And if so, who else might he be switching into?  I may be pushing this a bit, but Tenn-Doc’s new modified costume looks suspiciously like an amalgamation of the 10ths and the 12ths outfits.

    And if I REALLY wanted to push it, Tenn-Doc’s new tie COULD be tied into a bow….

    Hmm….

    #73624
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Since you’re bonkerising @brewski I’m suspecting the regeneration into TennantDoc14 (it’s been confirmed in an interview with RTD that the new TennantDoc is going to the14th regen and Gnuti is regen15)  has been caused by a combination of the efforts of Jodiedoc to reverse the forced regeneration into the masterdoc and some kind of outside cosmic  influence perhaps by the Neil Patrick Harris character that is assumed to be the Celestial Toymaker. Also given that we now know the 60th Specials are all going to be broadcast in November of next year I suspect they are all going to be one story a bit like Tennant original 2 part exit special the End of Time. In fact I suspect we’ll find out that because of the events involved in the Centenary Special that the new Tennant14 regen is unstable which will lead to the ultimate regen into Gnutidoc.

    #73625
    Brewski @brewski

    @devilishrobby, I have no doubt that some kind of cosmic (celestial?) influence is at work.  My bet is on something more like an illusion rather than a “true” incarnation.  I think Ncuti Gatwa will be the 14th Doctor.  And — Rule #1 — RTD lies! 😀

     

     

    #73626
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Well it’s not as if ?Celestial powers haven’t been involved with  the Doctor before The White and Black Guardians for example. And yes RTD does lie but he’s generally been a bit more subtle about it in the past.

     

     

    #73952
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave
    #73954
    janetteB @janetteb

    Thank you for posting that @blenkinsopthebrave. I hope that is the new design as it looks fantastic. Quite excited by the concept. It is futuristic, clean and a bit fantastic. Just what a Tardis interior should be but with the traditional elements too, the iconic “round things” and the console, looking more like an evolution of the original that many of the more recent consoles have.

    I have only really liked one of the AG Tardis interiors, Capaldi’s book case design which had warmth and character, which this design lacks but makes up for in “cool”. I was never a fan of the “grunge look” or of Smith’s Tardis which looked a bit like a Play School spaceship. Whit’Doc’s Tardis interior was just a mess.  I dislike the attempt at organic spaceship as it does not “fit” with Timelord culture. So this design is very good. Right up there with the Book cases. (Because nothing can be better than walls of bookcases.)

    Cheers

    Janette

     

     

    #73959
    nerys @nerys

    Very cool (possible) interior. Thanks for posting this, @blenkinsopthebrave!

    @janetteb I enjoyed your analysis of the various post-gap TARDIS interiors. I liked Eccleston’s/Tennant’s TARDIS. It had the look of a potbelly stove for the central console, and the rest of it was rather mysterious … shadowy, yet glowing.

    #73962
    syzygy @thane16

    @blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb @nerys

    hey everyone!

    i like Tardis interior too  (thank you for your posting). I’d like more warm lighting just personally. I really like the round things too Janette )mum says hi).

    I read the Twitter accounts & one guy stated he thought the floor was very big and everything so minimalist that it looked a bit like a laptop in the middle of an empty warehouse. Not sure who posted that on Twitter but it’s an interesting observation….

    we all liked the Capaldi and Tennant interiors as well. But I enjoy the messy quality of the after Gap Tardis’. A bit like I imagine space travel & ships would be in the future. things cobbled together, and technicians trying to fix things on the fly….

    this reminds me a lot of the first Tardis.

    @janetteb you stated, I reckon last year, that you didn’t have faith anymore in Chibnall’s writing. Could you elaborate on that all?

    Son of Puro (long time no post!) xo

    #73969
    nerys @nerys

    @thane16 Son of Puro, welcome back! How good to see you again. I can’t elaborate on what @janetteb wrote, but I admit that I lost hope in Chibnall’s writing. I found myself being set up for something promising, then disappointed in its denouement. The only exception, that I can recall, was the “Eve of the Daleks” New Year’s special, which was a delightful surprise. Humor, suspense and a little timey-wimey … all the things I expect from Doctor Who.

    The whole “Timeless Child/Flux” arcs left me feeling little of that. There was far too much exposition, and not enough character development to make me care what happened to the Doctor or her companions. And then, after the 2022 New Year’s special, the last two specials left me feeling underwhelmed. Bottom line, for me: Jodie Whittaker never got her moment as the Doctor. I attribute that to the writing.

    #73970
    syzygy @thane16

    Hey @nerys

    thx so much for reaching out about your Chibnall experience. I can get on board with a lot of that. I still look fondly at the poster of Matt Smith’s Doctor on my wall and remember the visit to the Sydney Opera House where we had Alex Kingston and Ben, the composer (?) with daleks, cyberdudes, and others along with all the music. I think I was 10.

    My favourite was Smith and Peter Capaldi’s Doctors as well as the clues along with spectacular stories. I loved that NY special you talked about too. I was able to rewatch that many times, and with Flux I thought the assistants or companions moved on a lot?

    It used to be, even from Clara, “where is the Doctor? Doctor help us” when the female companion to Jodi actually had her own jobs, didn’t wait for the Doctor’s instructions, and the old companions from the 80s, tended to be active investigators as well. I didn’t know any of those characters, myself from the 70s/80s.

    I’m not sure whether it’s just me, but I found the whole Irish Guarda story a little confusing, in that I couldn’t work out whether the tale was about how the policemen (who didn’t die or age)  were actually protective of the Doctor, or were TLs in themselves, or part of a secret anti-TL sect?

    I suppose another problem I had with any of the stories from ‘06 on, was the ramping up of disasters such as the earth vanishing, the 2 split universes separating Rose & David leading to a reality bomb, to losing all the planets, to the End of Time itself & then last year to entire universes being destroyed.  What else can they do….How far can they go?

    I liked the character development in many earlier seasons but I thought the female   Companion was well developed last year: I don’t recall her name. I’ve seen these eps only once whereas Mum liked them a lot more and was moved to tears by the end and that’s her litmus test -if it really moves her then it’s a big tick.

    The way Whitaker left definitely caused more than a dry eye there but I didn’t experience this & neither did Dad who gave it all up pretty quickly. I think he thought the Flux stories could be 10 episodes but he mentioned the insane amount of money the BBC pays for Doctor Who so it’s hard to find a balanced equation.

    I liked the Master a lot initially (in the Australian outback scenes) but he became so insanely mad by the end that the character and the stories intertwined were again ofer-amped. Maybe that’s how it’s supposed to play out, though.

    #73971
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Hi @janetteb @nerys @thane16

    Well there’s a lot to unpack there. My favourite Tardis (by a mile) was Capaldi’s, very elegant and spacious. And also, I think, kind to the actors and directors – they always had somewhere interesting to walk or stand while delivering their lines. I’ve seen the pic of the new one and it does have a ramp to walk down, but other than that the actors’ space seems rather constricted.

    I did like the Master in the Aussie scenes (which was quite creditable since he had to follow Missy) but I think he went a bit OTT after that. But I can’t quite clearly recall the later Whitdoc seasons, too much stuff going on I think. Of course Capaldi was my favourite Doc, followed by Smith, (and that includes their respective companions too. Oh, and Rose). Yes that Garda story – what was that about?

    ‘Eve of the Daleks’ – that was the ‘bottle’ show set in a warehouse, wasn’t it? Yes, that was really good. Often ‘bottle’ shows are some of the best, they allow (force?) the writers to concentrate on the interactions between a few people, and if the cast have good chemistry then it really has some impact. (Such as ‘The Girl Who Waited’ that I just re-watched).

    I’m really just filling in time, listening to the calm outside – well, it’s mostly calm, with occasional little flurries of wind. We’re waiting for Cyclone Gabrielle to arrive. (I could have been said to be a Xena fan once, but I was never a Gabfan 🙂 Said to be the worst cyclone to hit NZ since Bola in 1988, but that one just hit East Cape, so this will be the worst to hit Auckland – ever? And after we got the incredible three-times-the-all-time-record rain two weeks ago, it’s a case of oh, no, not *again*. Though that one didn’t come with any wind, and this is a cyclone. Personally, I’m more worried about the wind than the rain, though my next-door neighbours who live beside the stream are probably the other way round. One of them has his car parked (by invitation) in our driveway which is hopefully above flood level.

    I’ve got my chainsaw assembled (in case of trees) and I’ve just thought of a couple of drains I should go and clear, before the rain starts…

    #73972
    syzygy @thane16

    @dentarthurdent

    me too. Capaldi is the Doctor to me, but then I remember Season 5 with Smith -one of the best seasons of any show ever (seasons 5 of Buffy and Angel too and House)- and my mind tick tocks back and forth. 😀

    we REALLY hope you’ll be alright with the cyclone. Please let us know! ☹️

    Thane

    #73973
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @thane16 Thanks! According to the weather map, things don’t get really dramatic until tomorrow night. Gabrielle is moving very slowly and giving us the benefit of her company for much longer than we would like. But of course a slight change in course can change things dramatically. And as cyclones go, it’s ‘only’ a Category 2 – all very dramatic for us, but we never get *real* cyclones here.

    I’ll report back tomorrow or the day after.

    #73974
    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent You must have really offended the weather deities up there in the North Island. First the rain and now a cyclone. Thinking of you and keeping fingers crossed all will be well.

    @thane16 It is hard to pinpoint why Chibnell’s writing lost me. In part perhaps it was just following the Moffat years which I loved so any other show-runner was bound to be a bit of a let down. There were no terrible episodes but none that stood out. There are several  I have re watched, but only a few. One of our sons remarked that the series lacked “charm” and that is certainly part of the problem. There was none of that Dr Who “twinkle” in the writing. I don’t think any of the episodes which  I enjoyed were scripted by Chibnell. I disliked the story arcs, I disliked the way he trashed the lore. Moffat restored Gallifrey because it gives the universe a bit of depth which it lacks. Chibnell trashed it with glee. That was the point where I stopped watching. As a writer it annoyed me. He is reducing the playing field for other writers. The reason Moffat argued for letting the Doctor’s Daughter live was that it was a potential story for a future writer. It enriched the world. Destroying planets and other races deprives the world and other, future, writers.

    Other minor quibble was that I began to dislike Graham. I liked the character at first but feel that he would have been better as an occasional character, like Jackie. (Rose’s Mum) It annoyed me that the female doctor needed an older male to tell her what to do all the time. It felt it was becoming patronising. Maybe just me anyway the character of Graham began to grate a little. Ryan was poorly written so he was totally inconsistent. Yaz was under utilised in the first series but was by far the best of the three companions. I would like to have seen more of her family as well. There was potential there that was never tapped into. And as for the Master. Well  I am still disappointed at the casting of Sacha Dhawan. He would be perfect as the Doctor. I had my heart set on him being the Doctor one day and then he showed up as the Master.  (There was a lovely little snippet about him in The Guardian the other day on his experience of playing the master. It was part of an article about actors who have played villains.)

    These are all minor quibbles that would not matter if the heart of the show was missing. I don’t expect perfection in my favourite show but I have not yet watched the last season in part because  I am afraid of not enjoying it and not wanting to be disappointed. I would like to see the final and feel that I owe it to Jodie Whitaker who was always good and  I greatly admire and appreciate her courage in tackling the role. Now the Doctor can be male or female. She established that with Chibnell’s support and so  I appreciate that he had the courage to run with a female Doctor. IT was more than time. I just wish I had loved the stories more.

    And lastly, the Tardis interior. Second son looked at it, did not like it, too cold, too busy and evenly lit, but asked if it is just the 3d model for the design. So as a concept artist he would create a basic 3d model then add textures, lighting effects etc. I suspect that he is correct and the final design will be a lot more interesting. Still I like the concept and look forward to seeing how it ends up.

    cheers

    Janette

     

     

     

     

    #73975
    nerys @nerys

    @thane16 You make a good point, via your dad, about whether the Flux arc would have been better with more episodes. I think there’s something to be said for that. It all felt a bit rushed, hence the need for lots of exposition to tie everything together. I just find that very unsatisfying. But, the fact that your mom shed a tear (probably more than one) at the end for Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor will make me re-evaluate that, and maybe re-watch it.

    I did find Yasmin (Yaz) to be the best-developed of the 13th Doctor’s companions. In retrospect, I think it would have been better to have her be the only companion, and develop her that way from the get-go. Whittaker’s Doctor simply had too many companions, leaving none in the trio much room to grow. And then, kicking Graham and Ryan out, only to replace the two of them with Dan, didn’t make much sense to me. (Especially when Dan was rather unceremoniously dropped off, with Graham abruptly showing up out of nowhere.) But that may have been due more to contractual/time issues for the various actors that couldn’t be avoided. There was a lot of clutter that, in the end, didn’t serve the series well.

    @janetteb You have explained so much of what I found lacking, and did it far better than I. Some of it, I can’t really articulate. I just know it left me feeling flat. Same with my husband, who I think gave up watching even before you did. He is the longtime Doctor Who fan in our family, and I think he found much of the trashing of Doctor Who lore to be unnecessary. Almost like Chibnall was going to make his mark, just for the sake of making his mark, rather than creating a good story and telling it well.

    I also agree with you about Sacha Dhawa as the Master. I never suspended my disbelief with him to the point that I found him to be a worthy adversary. He seemed to be chewing up the scenery in a rather predictable way. And maybe that’s because of the way his Master was written, much closer to John Simm’s Master than Michelle Gomez’s Missy. It was just too over-the-top for my tastes. Again, that seems to go back to the writing.

    @dentarthurdent Wishing you a safe outcome from Gabrielle. I watch the WildEarth safariLIVE drives (twice daily live streams), plus the Djuma and Africam fixed streaming webcams, and they have been receiving excessive rainfall this past week. It was good for the waterholes and vegetation (and, as a result, the wildlife), but not good for the villages and towns that are suffering with flooding and landslides. We need water … but not that much, all at once. It saddens me to think of what the people are having to deal with.

    And yes, “Eve of the Daleks” was the bottle story set in the storage warehouse. @janetteb you mentioned charm. That episode carried the charm I found missing through most of Chibnall’s tenure. And yet, Chibnall wrote that one. How he could hit all the right notes there, and miss them in so many other episodes, baffles me. It really does.

    #73976
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb @thane16 @nerys Thanks for the good wishes. At the moment it’s calm outside, with periods of gusts and some rain. According to the weather map, things will really start happening about dusk. Water – there’s always either too much or too little of it. I’ve done what minor things I can (checked the drains, put any loose things inside the garage) so now is a good time to sit tight and watch Doctor Who. 🙂

    @janetteb I think I agree with all the points you made. Except that I didn’t notice Graham telling the Doctor what to do (maybe he was, I just didn’t notice). What I did resent was the Doctor ordering Graham not to kill the toothy villain at the end of series 1. And yes he started well but got a bit tiring, over time.

    Yaz was definitely the best of 13’s companions. Dan was good too. But three companions was too many, it diffused the inter-personal drama too much.

    I liked Yaz’s family. I would have liked to see more of them. And, ‘Eve of the Daleks’ was very nicely written. So, Chibnall could on occasion get it right. Just a pity that he got carried away so often by a temptation to turn it up to 11. The Flux being a case in point – really the most effective episode of that series was the Weeping Angels one, where the scene of action was brought back down to that one village. And Fugitive of the Judoon was quite good, the character of Doctor Ruth (who had a nice ruthless streak) was intriguing. Though I never did work out how she related to the ongoing Doctor dynasty.

    And I never warmed to Whitdoc. She started off with an annoying tendency to go all dithery and yet, talk down to people, and even after three seasons she still did that. Somehow, when previous Doctors slipped in references to knowing Cleopatra or whoever, I found it amusing; when Whitdoc did it, or knew all the answers, it just came across as smart-ass and annoying. Was I prejudiced? I don’t think it was because she was female, I loved Missy, and I liked all the female Companions (except Donna) and never fretted when they carried as much weight story-wise as the Doctor did. When Rose looked into the time vortex and gained the power to destroy all the Daleks – that was thrilling.

    I don’t think Chibnall had Moff’s deft touch in writing dialogue and characters. For example, Clara’s attempt to ‘civilize’ Capdoc with her little prompt cards (which of course the Doc got tragically, hilariously wrong – “Condolences on the loss of your relative/significant other/pet”). Often, with the Moff, it’s what was implied that counted. For example when Doc asked the General in Hell Bent “How many regenerations?” He and the General knew what that meant, by the time the audience realised it, he’d shot the General. All the dialogue in Moff episodes was polished and carried weight, none of it was banal. ‘Charm’, as janetteb and nerys said.

    Incidentally, last night looking through my DVD’s I picked out ‘Local Hero’ which (and I’d completely forgotten) featured a very young Peter Capaldi. I almost didn’t recognise him. He’s one actor who has definitely acquired more character with age. (I think John Hurt is another).

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