Spoilers (4)

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This topic contains 236 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  Oochillyo 1 month, 1 week ago.

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    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Just read an interview with Chibnall who apparently confirmed that this is, indeed, the Doctor: “There’s no sort of parallel universe going on. There’s no tricks”.

    I say apparently, as the interview was in The Mirror.

    I admit, that threw me for a loop (both the quote and the fact that I was reading the Mirror)…

    More thinking required.


    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Will now go and check the Mirror. The things we do for Doctor Who, eh?

    But as I’ve been arguing over in the spoiler-free forums, there isn’t any evidence for an alternate universe. Generally speaking, if it were an alternate Doctor, I’d expect there to have been stuff planted by now.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    Yes, it’s in The Sun as well (bleurrgh … good thing lunch is curried lentils to hide the taste). Looks like a press release, probably handed out when the production office became aware that half the Twitterverse is haring off down an ‘alternate universe’ rabbit hole.

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord


    Is the fact that the TARDIS was over a black hole when CapDoc started but then refused to regenerate a factor? Is JoDoc the Doctor we would have got if he’d gone through with it then and that she’s the Doc of betwixt universes. WhitDoc being the one who emerges after time being frozen and all the events of TUAT. I guess that might still fall into the ‘parallel universe Doc’ getout that Chibs has nixed but I think there might we wiggle room.

    And at the mo, I’m kind of liking it because it doesn’t render TUAT a pointless exercise that slightly devalued the potential impact of the end of The Doctor Falls.


    I think the modus operandi of the aliens from Spyfall (can’t even remember their name. Chibs, you really need to work on your alien-naming skills. Your choices are rubbish and unmemorable) and the line about possible futures at the end of Orphan 55 strike me as possibly being hints in that direction.

    It also struck me that Chibs might be being a bit tricksy here. What he’s actually said that JoDoc isn’t from an alternative universe. But what (ref. my half-assed theory above) is that WhitDoc has been the alt-universe Doctor all along and JoDoc is the ‘our’ regular one?

    Psymon @psymon

    @jimthefish I’ve had the same thought about JW being the alt for some reason, given the generally positive reaction to the Doc Ruth I think if she was used as a plot device for a couple of episodes that could backfire, I think she will definitely be a recurring character and maybe we’ll eventually see our first true Doctor death without regeneration as JW sacrifices herself and Doc Ruth takes over, or vice versa? There will definitely be Big Finish stories and books with Doc Ruth I think…

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord


    I think that’s almost a certainty with regards to Big Finish.

    And it’s probably too early to say for sure but I wouldn’t be massively surprised if we have, in fact, just met the next Doctor…. at the very least, I think she’ll become WhitDoc’s equivalent of Captain Jack/River Song — a capable peer of the Doctor’s who can show up every so often, as required.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    The idea of some kind of twinned regeneration does seem a good deal more persuasive overall than that of a parallel universe, because it could be developed to account for pretty much every anomaly. Martin Doctor didn’t seem to recognise Whittaker Doctor’s sonic, though, which would suggest that her predecessor was an early incarnation. She also seemed to believe that two incarnations of the Doctor and Tardis couldn’t exist in proximity without causing serious problems, which is an early concept, long since demonstrated to be false.

    Could the double regeneration of the first and twelfth Doctors immediately following their encounter have triggered such an anomalous twinning effect, but specifically in the regeneration of the first Doctor not that of the twelfth? Which is not to say that the effect of the black hole on the Capaldi Doctor and the Tardis couldn’t have been a contributory factor.

    If this twinning did occur so early on but was unobserved by either resulting version of the Doctor, it suggests that the result was a split time line, so not technically a parallel or alternative universe, and that this split time line has somehow merged again following the second and technically later of the two regenerations which triggered the effect in the first place, closing a neat loop. A merging of split time lines would certainly account for the apparent differences between what we know of the Time Lords, and the  Time Lord history – and possibly culture – behind Martin Doctor and Gat, including the fact that for the latter the destruction of Gallifrey, actual or apparent, never seems to have happened.

    As a random afterthought, might this anomaly also be the reason that the first act of the Tardis after Capaldi Doctor regenerated as Whittaker Doctor was seemingly to jettison her? Or did she just press the wrong button?



    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish and @mudlark

    I think my main problem with an alt-universe Doctor, whether the Martin Doctor or the Whittaker Doctor, is that it strikes me as full-on blue boringers. Everything you know is a lie – because we’re in an alternative to the real Whoniverse, and CapaldiDoc’s aborted regeneration produced a Buffy-like double regeneration. Two Doctors, no waiting. 🙂

    Where’s the angst in that? If the Master blows up Gallifrey (lampshaded that this was again this week), I’d like it to be a bit more exciting than ‘oh, it’s not the real one, fooled you ::manic giggle::’ I’d like a previously unknown Doctor to be more a terrible secret (like the War Doctor) than ‘oh, I have a twin, how cool’. And I would like an alternate universe where we can actually tell the dratted difference between the ‘real’ Whoniverse and the ‘alternate’.

    It’s not that it isn’t possible, it’s just that it sounds far less exciting than the history of Gallifrey being a total lie (which fits with the ‘historical’ memory of Rassilon versus the real bloke when he turns up) and the Doctor discovering that part of her past has been wiped. Not repressed because she hates that bit of herself – wiped. Just like she’s done to Donna, tried to do to Clara and did to Ada and Noor.

    And, in a bit of meta, casting a black female actor as a Doctor who’s been wiped from history is kind of … resonant.

    Anyway, Mudlark, would between Troughton and Pertwee be a possible slot for a ‘wiped’ Doctor? Jamie and Zoe were mind-wiped, after all.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    Anyway, Mudlark, would between Troughton and Pertwee be a possible slot for a ‘wiped’ Doctor?

    That did occur to me as a possible alternative, since the circumstances of Troughton Doctor’s regeneration were somewhat unusual; but I opted for the Hartnell/Capaldi regeneration scenario as more likely because of the symmetry between what could be viewed as a double or paired regeneration and the emergence of twin Doctors ignorant of one another’s existence. What seemed less likely to me was twin Doctors resulting solely from the Capaldi Doctors regeneration, for the reasons stated above.

    My hypothesis here doesn’t involve an alt-universe, only a time line which divides and then merges again, bookending the regeneration of Hartnell Doctor and that of Capaldi Doctor, which seems to me a fairly neat solution and not all that hackneyed. In any event, I just hope that the solution Chibnall has dreamed up is not blue boringers.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Re: your twinning idea. Are we to suppose that at the moment of regeneration of the Hartnell Doctor that, even though we clearly see Hartnell’s face slowly turn into Troughton’s, somewhere else there is another Hartnell  turning into the Martin Doctor? And when that happens another Tardis, another Gallifrey (one that include Gat), et al, emerges as the result of a split time line? And then at some point(?) the timelines merge again? Also, since the Martin Doctor and the Whittaker Doctor are captured by the Judoon, and Gat appears, does this mean that the Judoon have been around for as long as the Hartnell Doctor (or at least as long as the Troughton Doctor) but in a split timeline? And if Gat is around, and talking to the Whittaker Doctor, does this mean the timeline is still split?

    I am just trying to get my head around this.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    Are we to suppose that at the moment of regeneration of the Hartnell Doctor that, even though we clearly see Hartnell’s face slowly turn into Troughton’s, somewhere else there is another Hartnell  turning into the Martin Doctor? And when that happens another Tardis, another Gallifrey (one that include Gat), et al, emerges as the result of a split time line?

    That’s it, more or less. From a universal point of view the divergence of the time lines might have been barely noticeable to begin with but, given the effect of the Doctor we have known on the universe over the course of the time line we have seen, it could have increased gradually. Furthermore, in the centuries since the initial twinning the alternative Doctor could also have regenerated many times and Martin Doctor only the latest of many. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the main actors in both time lines – Time Lords, Daleks, Cybermen, Judoon and so on -shouldn’t be more or less the same, just that their actions and interactions may have differed in some ways.

    Think of the divergence and eventual re-merging of the time lines as an ellipse, at one end of which is the regeneration of Hartnell Doctor and at the other the corresponding regeneration of Capaldi Doctor.

    The flaw in this argument is that it supposes that the divergent time lines differed only in respect of the Doctor(s), the Time Lords and those whom they interacted with or affected directly, otherwise their merging would result in utter chaos. And probably bad news for planet Earth 😈


    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Just came across the cast list for the two final episodes, and it seems that the Master is back, and, I suspect, based on the actors, perhaps a Time Lord or two. I feel terrible saying this, but, I should be more excited than I am.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Well, the Master being back is expected. Given the Castrovalva/Logopolis like nature of the Villa this week, I was expecting him to pop out of the woodwork.

    I strongly suspect the Timeless Child is going to go into next series, though.

    MissRori @missrori

    I think it’s important to remember here is that this season has had a bad case of the glums; aside from the Tesla episode, it’s been pretty downbeat.  So to keep people wanting to follow things into next year the season finale has to end on a hopeful note of some kind — the way all the Capaldi season finales did.  We get a rough episode tonight, and then next week things are looking up with whatever is revealed, be it splintered Doctors (remember Clara?  It could happen to the Doctor) or alternate universes or maybe it all being some kind of dream crab situation.  It’s all about travelling hopefully after all. 😉

    MissRori @missrori

    Given that next week’s episode is called “The Timeless Children” and there was all that fluff with Brendan in last night’s episode, plus Gallifrey and the Master, I’m thinking that arc’s going to be resolved next week.  If anything’s going to be held over at this point, it will be the Fugitive Doctor, perhaps for Christmas/New Year’s.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Wasn’t sure how official this was, so decided to play it safe by posting here.



    Nightingale @nightingale

    Hi! I’m glad that Mandip Gill is staying on. For me she’s been the breakout star of Chris Chibnall’s run so far.

    winston @winston

    @blenkinsopthebrave       Oh, that is too bad!  I really liked the Graham and Ryan pair. Maybe as a grandparent I enjoyed the easy, friendly relationship between them that has developed over time. I liked Bradley Walsh as comedy relief on the show also. Oh well, changes will be made whether I like it or not.

    Craig @craig

    I saw a rumour on Twitter that Matt Smith will be returning as the Eleventh Doctor in this year’s Christmas Day Special, Revolution of the Daleks, alongside Jodie Whittaker, Bradley Walsh, Mandip Gill, Tosin Cole and … John Barrowman. No confirmation though.

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord


    That’s a pretty colossal piece of news. Wonder how they managed to keep that hushed up, if true. Certainly would much rather see Smith back than Barrowman — but that’s just me.

    Notices date….. hmmmm

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    This time I am not taking any chances…


    Somehow, the “new” look seems strangely similar to the look given to the Dalek in “Resolution” last year.


    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Hmm ok don’t know if it’s already been said but I have to get this out my system. The episode is called Revolution of the Daleks…. well we already know the the Daleks are revolting 🤢 sorry it just had to be said. I wonder why the Beeb still hasn’t committed to an actual schedule time we know the new series isn’t going to be until later in 2021 could it be that some of the shows for the Xmas schedule are not yet complete and they are still keeping their options open.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    Once again, you beat me to it.

    I subscribe to the Radio Times (dead trees edition) and the issue for 5-11 Dec. arrived yesterday afternoon. Having started to browse it this afternoon and read the fairly lengthy article linked to the cover, I was wondering whether to post here about it. Much of the article in question is taken up with rehashing the history of these most menacing yet engaging of monsters, but it also addresses the reasons for this recent tweaking of the design and makes it clear that any resemblance between the new-look Dalek and the self-assembled Dalek of Resolution is indeed not coincidental. According to guarded hints dropped by Chibnall, although Resolution and Revolution of the Daleks are stand-alone episodes, they are very much linked.

    Speaking for myself alone, I’m rather taken with the new look.


    🙄  But then we already know that the Dalek sewers on Skaro are/were/will be revolting  (cf The Witches Familiar)

    As for the scheduling of the holiday season episode, filming was completed late last year, so I presume it will be aired either at Christmas or New Year – probably the latter. Filming of next year’s eight episode series began this month, though for obvious reasons there will be no overseas location work involved.

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @mudlark I knew it was actually in the can so to speak with all the principle filming and re-shoots done last year as from what I understood it was principally filmed back to back with season 12. The point I was actually trying to make possibly badly was that usually by this point the Beeb has given us a firm date as to when the Xmas Who will be on our screens. Given the un-Christmassy nature of this years episode from the little I’ve read , much like last years special I’m expecting it will be screened New Year’s Day. On a side note I’m also wondering if it will be a longer than normal episode especially if we are actually losing two of the companions.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @mudlark  The episodes may be linked? Might have to re-watch Resolution before this one screens in that case.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @devilishrobby  I was not aware that two companions are leaving. Hopefully that is Graeme and Ryan. Though  I will miss them would prefer not to loose Yaz yet as I feel the character has a lot more untapped potential. The dynamic between the companions and the Doctor has been one of the best aspects of series 11 & 12 so loosing any part of the “fam” is a shame.

    I also like the new design and it makes sense if the two stories are linked.



    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    From what I have read, it does, indeed, seem that it will be Graeme and Ryan who will be leaving.

    I wonder if they will be replaced, or if Yaz becomes the sole companion. Personally, I would like to see how the Doctor and Yaz worked together.



    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @janetteb sorry I thought it was common knowledge that Bradley Walsh and probably Tocin Cole were leaving the series. I seem to remember I saw somewhere Bradley was leaving because his commitments to his game show hosting was making committing to doctor who problematical and as I think he actually owns the Chase Uk production company I suppose his commitments to that are his priority. Tocin I’m not sure why he’s leaving unless it’s a case they felt without Bradley playing Graham his role wouldn’t work, personally I can’t believe that would be the case yes his presence as a companion was initially linked to his relationship to Graham but I thought his interaction and relationship with Yaz and the Doctor had developed to the point where Graham’s presence would no longer be critical. As to Yaz continuing as a solo companion we will have to see. Given that all three of the current companions started with Jodies arrival as the Doctor it will probably feel strange though I do feel Yaz is a strong enough personality to support the Doctor as a solo companion though I’ve felt that the Doctor does work well with multiple companions be they human or other.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @devilishrobby and @janetteb

    I’ll start by saying I don’t really know any more than anyone else on this one, but while Bradley and Tosin are ‘strongly rumoured’ to be leaving as regular characters (other work commitments, basically) – there are equally strong rumours that they’re not.

    One solution to these conflicting rumours would be that they’re no longer in every episode, solving the ‘supposed to be filming in two places simultaneously’ problem. Yaz is the regular, Ryan and Graham are appearing ‘as and when’- bit like Freema Aygeman who left the TARDIS but was in several episodes afterwards.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @devilishrobby, @blenkinsopthebrave and @bluesqueakpip It would be interesting to see the Doctor and Yaz working together as they are forming a strong team I do feel that a bit of “gender balance” is good and so whether it is Ryan and Graeme joining the team occasionally or a new male companion it would satisfy that requirement. Also I like there to be two companions but felt at times that three was too many. The Doctor sometimes seemed to be overwhelmed by the “fam”.

    I did hear somewhere that Tosin Cole had been cast in something so maybe he is moving on to “bigger’ things. I think that Ryan as a character is not dependent upon Graeme but not the other way around.



    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Well it’s confirmed it’s New Year’s Day. It’s on Facebook with the trailer but I’m crap at posting links so I can’t post it

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Here it is


    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    From the look of the Daleks being “presented” by what I assume is supposed to be the prime minister and the hugger-Dalek attacking Yaz there is a definite link to the previous Xmas special so a rewatching may be in order.

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Don’t know if anyone has read the RadioTimes Doctor who special features but in its interview with Jodie it’s practically confirmed without actually confirming (hope that makes sense)  that Bradley and Tocin are leaving as it talks about her filming her last  scenes with them and how sad she was when she realised this.

    geoffers @geoffers


    official facebook doctor who account has made that official, as well. although it is hinted that bradley may show up as a guest in the next series, too…

    janetteB @janetteb

    Not sure if this is official yet or just rumour still but it is giving the media something to talk about, (other than the orange idiot and his mutinous minions.)

    I do wonder if it is simply expected now that an actor will quit the roll after three series and so people just expect J.W. to do so. If she is leaving though I feel that the next Doctor probably should be female too otherwise people will say that having a woman in the role was a “failed experiment” and not just simply how it is now. The Doctor changes gender when he/she regenerates, just as he/she changes every other aspect of appearance. But Michael Sheen as the Doctor, a tempting prospect given my top pick for the role is now out of the running on account of being cast as the Master. In fact it is getting harder to think of a potential actor who has not been in the show at some point.



    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey everyone, I wouldn’t say this is a spoiler in terms of plot especially if you’ve watched a lot of Doctor Who but if you haven’t seen a lot of New Who or even Classic there may be some spoilers in  there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akRVxAEzCvY&ab_channel=MargaritaLife , I guess you could say its a celebration of Doctor Who, great moments, themes, dialogue ect I think its a super video especially as its a 20min + video which really helps build the atmosphere check it out but as I say if you haven’t seen a lot of New Who or Classic Who or moments from either then be warned as it has clips from all the Doctors, a lot of Companies, key Villains, key themes and key moments, hope you all enjoy 🙂

    I certainly would show this to anyone who’s considering watching the Show for the first time if they dont mind spoilers and it makes me feel proud and excited about this lovely show Doctor Who 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent


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