The Next Doctor (2)

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    Nick @nick


    I’m a bit thick I think, but I don’t follow why you can’t use time travel as a weapon. The timelords/Daleks can have most or even all of their battles outside 3D space (and the rest of us observe nothing), but I don’t see why that stops the Daleks (or vice versa) using time travel itself to change events within the 3D universe. We certainly wouldn’t notice it if they did – our history and future would instantaneously rewrite itself to the new version.

    In any major war against an equal enemy, you would fight in all of the mediums you’re technology made possible at the same time (ie for us Air, Land, Sea, Water, Space, Cyber-space, Propoganda warfare would all happen).


    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @Shazzbot– Didn’t House rid himself of his assistants and attempt to leave that space ‘outside the universe’ because the Doctor told him he was the last Time Lord? i.e., sexy was the last Tardis that would turn up there to feed him. This implies that this place wasn’t outside time.

    Anonymous @



    According to the hypothesis, the act that causes D8 to lose claim to the name “Doctor” also ages him from McG into Hurt. Prior to “the act”, he is still a valid Doctor. That’s why McG is the Doctor, but Hurt is not.

    I think DHurt is most probably in the 2% of the Doctor’s mind that the Cybercontroller couldn’t access myself.

    After seeing some of the more recent theories on here, I think Hurt is locked inside the Time War. It’s only the memory of him that’s in the D11’s mind/timestream. The 2 were able to talk in tNotD because being both inside and outside the timelock created some sort of telepathic connection when 11 entered his own timestream – something like the drumming in the Master’s head.

    One last question. All of the timelords who had been eaten by the House in the Doctor’s Wife – was that before the timewar or afterwards ? There’s an interesting implication in the answer to that question surely ?

    A question which opens interesting possibilities. Since those Time Lords were presumably not involved in the war, they’re not stuck behind the timelock. The Doctor could conceivably go back in time & rescue them before House gets them (except for the Corsair*), restoring the Time Lords without reopening the war.

    *Since the Doctor saw the Corsair’s arm on Uncle, his/her death is now fixed.

    (@Shazzbot, @thommck – I’d view a bubble universe as something more akin to an aneurism on a blood vessel. Time still flows there but – since it’s sort of bulging off of the main universe – it flows differently, with odd eddies and whirlpools and such.)

    We live in a Who universe with 4 known dimensions (3D space plus time).

    Some theoretical physicists actually think time might have 2 dimensions. And string/M theorists have postulated as many as 11 dimensions to space-time. In M theory, universes in the multiverse exist on (usually) parallel (but vibrating) ‘branes (short for membranes, hence the M). Some variants of M theory credit collisons between ‘branes as the cause of Big Bangs.

    We certainly wouldn’t notice it if they did – our history and future would instantaneously rewrite itself to the new version.

    @wolfweed discussed that in post #16103



    Anonymous @

    @miapatrick – there’s been a lot of very interesting discussion on time and universes since I posted my comment.  I’m sitting back now and enjoying the ride.  🙂  (and desperately trying to come up with something myself which addresses these issues in a DW context)

    thommck @thommck

    @nick I’m saying time travel couldn’t be used as a weapon because the assumption I had was that all of the fighters were outside of time. A 5th dimension if you like. They can’t travel back in time to change anything because they have already removed themselves from time by the very nature of being on the battlefield

    There you go, clear as mud 😉

    RassilonPresident @rassilonpresident

    He has alot to live up to,even though I doubt it’ll be hard for him,being a great actor and all

    Whisht @whisht

    @thommck – actually you’re “pipes” explanation is similar to my “moments across a membrane/ onion skin” analogy (which certainly wasn’t as catchy).

    There are differences, but it looks like I’m gonna have to crack open the post-its* this weekend to see if I’m thinking straight (or wibbly….)

    albertnoel @albertnoel

    its hard to say, how it will all pan out. I just hope they get rid of the clara character.!

    thommck @thommck

    @albertnoel Any reasons you would like to give why you want to see Clara go? The actress has stated in an interview that she’s looking forward to playing a normal human companion in the new series rather than “The Impossible Girl”.

    I was glad to hear her say that as I think her previous character arc hasn’t quite let her story grow as naturally as it has with other companions. She’s a good actress IMHO and I think she’s been a lot of fun to watch with Matt.

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    The Punk Britannia series was repeated on BBC 4 tonight.
    It was narrated by some bloke called Peter Capaldi…

    Whisht @whisht

    just heard Armando Iannucci on the Danny Baker show – he seems to be a fan of Doctor Who!

    and with the Capaldi connection…. oh PLEASE someone beg him to do an episode!


    apologies, but a man can dream….


    wolfweed @wolfweed
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    Nick @nick


    Thanks. I understand now. What you say makes perfect sense, but you’re assuming its a one way trip. I would expect (if you had the technology) you could flip into and out of time. In that case, all of the possibilities remain open.



    Whisht @whisht

    Sorry for random bonkers thought. Blame @jimthefish as it was something he suggested on the big bang thread.

    What if the Hurt Doctor blew up the Tardis?
    My reason (not jim’s) is so that nothing (including the Tardis) can break the Time War time lock.

    Done in the name of peace and sanity, but not in the name of the Doctor…

    Anonymous @

    @whisht — nice theory, and a more Doctor-ish explanation than my ‘he just wants to escape’ one…

    The only problem with both of our theories I guess is that Doc 11 always says that he doesn’t know what caused the TARDIS to explode but if he’d actually done it himself in a past incarnation, then that doesn’t really seem true.

    Unless the Doctors continue to have a strange twilight continuing existence in the Doctor’s timeline from the Name of the Doctor and the Hurt Doctor continues to exert an influence from there. In which case, my ‘escape plan’ theory might be worth me putting a few quid on…

    Whisht @whisht

    Ah yes @jimthefish – I’ve never been exactly watertight on my theories!

    In fact my theories are like colanders! I mean, one was that HurtDoc was forced to enter the after-death “scar” as a punishment/ prison, forever watching the consequences of his actions…

    But if Clara and SmithDoc can enter the scar and escape (as they surely must)then why couldn’t he have done that before…?

    Hey ho!

    Whisht @whisht

    Another random thought…

    Someone once mentioned on a thread here, many moons ago, that the Doctor’s accent is influenced by the previous companion.

    A lovely idea! Ecclestone’s northern accent becomes Tennant’s ‘southern’ after spending so much time with Rose. Smith’s ‘southern’ is again Rose and Martha’s influence. And Capaldi’s Scottish, will be due to Amy.


    I just wonder if the reason is that actually we hear the Doctor via the Tardis’ translation circuits, and that Sexy is being a wee bit naughty (jealous?) and getting the accent ‘right’ for the companion just a weeny bit late.


    Anonymous @

    @whisht – the ‘accent theory’ is indeed a lovely one.  But I’m concerned that David Tennant was not allowed to use his natural accent as Doctor Who (yes, following @craig, I’ve said it! ‘Doctor Who’ and not ‘The Doctor’  🙂  ).  Will Peter Capaldi be so allowed?

    Sexy is always a bit naughty — haven’t you been in the Rose & Crown thread?!

    I’m cogitating on the Hurt Doctor’s influence on the Tardis exploding in TPO and TBB and have a few ideas, but the rain has temporarily abated and there is a charity do on our local village cricket green today (yes, I do live in a 1950s idyllic version of England) so may have to come back to you later today on that one.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @Shazzbot the  nazi-fan-daleks will be onto you now… Did you not mention recently that there is a duck pond in that village sans ducks?? If I remember correctly then I think you might be in serious danger. Watch out for cracks and strange people who bark instead of their dogs..

    An attempt to get back to topic.. I don’t really care what excuse is used, ie “all planets have a north”, just as long as P.C. keeps his accent. Meanwhile my P.C. research continues. I have just watched series 1 of “Field of Blood.”



    Anonymous @

    Hiya @janetteb – ahh, but @wolfweed put paid to the whole ‘where the heck are the ducks from the duckpond?‘ hanging thread.

    I have to admit, once reading Steven Moffat’s explanation, it was sorta what I was thinking had happened, too.  Left on the cutting-room floor / vagaries of location filming, like so many other important ** details.

    ** well, important to us.  🙂

    Now, I simply have to go and present my gluten-free lemon drizzle cake for the charity sale today!

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @Shazzbot – I thought not using his native accent was David Tennant’s own decision? Because he wanted to draw a very clear line between ‘David Tennant’ and ‘The Doctor’?

    Anonymous @

    @whisht  I’ve always dismissed this theory that a newly regenerated Doctor picks up accents/traits from previous companions but the I noticed this…

    and this…

    is it just me who sees more than a passing resemblance?

    Anonymous @

    @fatmaninabox @bluesqueakpip

    FMIAB – Nice detective work on the photos!  But hopefully if Doctor 12 picks up anything from his companions, it won’t be from Rory (*ducks at all the flying objects from the Rory-lovers*).

    Bluey – I know nothing about who decided David Tennant should have an English accent as opposed to a Scottish accent.  I loved your work on the thread discussing the ‘reveal’ programme for PC, in getting percentages of Scottish Doctors v everyone else.  But please remind me, is Sylvester McCoy so far the only one to actually take his native Scots accent into DW?  I will be terribly disappointed if PC has to lose his accent simply to draw a line in the sand between the 12th Doctor and Malcom Tucker.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @fatmaninabox – Amy’s accent and Rory’s hairstyle?


    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @Shazzbot – looking stuff up, it does seem to have been RTD who wanted the Estuary English – and here’s me thinking it was DT. 😳

    Possibly he just said he was happy with it because it distinguished between him and the part he was playing.

    So far Sylvester McCoy is the only Scot to use his native accent and Christopher Eccleston is the only Northerner to use his native accent. In terms of variation, there’s no problem with PC using his native accent – by now we’ve had Scottish, RP, Northern, Mockney, RP … so another regional accent will be fine.

    It’s up to Moffat and Capaldi, though.

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    z DWM #464 out on Thursday…

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Wolfweed – you’re getting your bmi_orig_img  error again

    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed – I deleted this from the end of your URL:  /bmi_orig_img/dwm-464.jpg

    wolfweed @wolfweed!

    Twelfth Doctor Art Challenge 

    wolfweed @wolfweed
    wolfweed @wolfweed


    wolfweed @wolfweed


    from foreveryoungadult…

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @lostpidgeon – The Craig Ferguson Peter Capaldi interview has resurfaced again…

    diasho @diasho

    “So has anyone seen the spin off of Dr Who called Tourchwood? Main character is Jack Harkness. Peter Capaidi is in season 3 as a government agent and is in most of the season. I’m was really shocked that he got the part because he is so involved in the franchise anyway. Thoughts???”

    Following up in this he was also the father in Fires of Pompeii.  While yes Karen was in it as well as a soothsayer this was a minor roll the father was not.

    I personally think Peter is a great actor and is a great choice for the doctor with these 2 flaws that need to be worked out.

    If Peter’s part in Torchwood/previous DR Who had been minor or he didn’t look like himself IE he spent most of his time in a cyberman suit, covered by layers of body paint or said so little no one noticed him no problem.  However in Fires he had major interaction with The Doctor. The Doctor saved his life, he had children, was married etc.

    In Torchwood he was in all 5  days of the Children of the Earth episodes again as a fairly major roll.  While Torchwood does not directly connect to Dr Who there are connecting lines between the two shows, besides Capt. Jack and the Dr’s hand, so to say what happens in one has no roll in the other is foolish.

    Regardless of his talent I think putting Peter in as the 12th Dr would be just short of putting John Barrowman (Capt. Jack) in as the 13th.


    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    Nice try. Wrong Doctor Who forum.

    Please check out our mission statement: “theories more insane than what’s actually happening”.

    We would be deeply interested in your theory as to why the Doctor Who universe seems to have an abundance of characters who look remarkably like Peter Capaldi. I think ‘the Twelfth Doctor has stepped into his own timeline and been scattered throughout time’ and ‘the Twelfth Doctor is a Jaggaroth’ have already been taken.

    But ‘so and so shouldn’t be in Doctor Who because they’ve been in it before’ isn’t an insane theory. Sorry.



    TardisBlue @tardisblue

    @diasho (+ @bluesqueakpip)

    Disho, you’re confusing the *actor*with the *character* he or she is playing.

    Merriam-Webster defines actor as “one who represents a character in a dramatic production.”

    Wikipedia discusses an important aspect of acting —  Semiotics:  “the actor’s ability to transform into a convincing character in front of the audience. The audience no longer sees the actor as a performer, but sees a character as a completely different being.”

    And Wikipedia has this to say about character: “A character is a person in a narrative work of arts (such as a novel, play, television show/series, or film). Derived from the ancient Greek word kharaktêr, the English word dates from the Restoration, although it became widely used after its appearance in Tom Jones in 1749. From this, the sense of “a part played by an actor” developed. Character, particularly when enacted by an actor in the theatre or cinema, involves “the illusion of being a human person.”  In literature, characters guide readers through their stories, helping them to understand plots and ponder themes.  Since the end of the 18th century, the phrase “in character” has been used to describe an effective impersonation by an actor.” (footnotes omitted.)

    During Children of the Earth, were you perplexed by Frobisher wearing shirts and suits instead of a toga?  Did you keep waiting for him to ditch the civil service and start sculpting again?  I bet not.

    Capaldi was not offered the role of the Doctor because of his looks.  He was offered it because of his ability as an *actor* to bring to life the *character* of the doctor.   The folks here on this forum are confident that when you next see Capaldi’s face on Doctor Who, you won’t *see* Capaldi or any of the characters he’s played, you’ll *see* the Twelfth Doctor.


    @bluesqueakpip, if you want some bonkers theorizing based on Capaldi’s resemblance to Caecilus in The Fires of Pompeii……………

    1.  Caecilus made The Doctor a household god.

    2.  By the end of Season seven, the Doctor’s pretty shaken up by things — the Hurt non-Doctor, the Time War redux, saying goodbye to River Song, loosing the Ponds to a Weeping Angel, a devastating dearth of fezzes in the Tardis wardrobe, … It’s all too much.  He’s facing his Thirteenth Regeneration, uncertain of his legacy, berating himself mercilessly with shouldas-wouldas-couldas, and generally feeling light years away from the Time Lord Victorious.

    3.  In a blinding flash of inspiration just as the regeneration energy starts to stream, he remembers that nice little family he and Donna rescued from the Fires of Pompeii — what were their names now?  The man, a sculptor — that’s right, a sculptor!  And he made such a nice piece — me and the Tardis and Donna.  They worshiped me, they appreciated me, I made a difference in their lives, I – I – I

    4,  I’ve turned into him!


    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @tardisblue – that only explains the Twelfth’s resemblance to Caecilus; there’s still John Frobisher to go. 🙂

    As I recall, the Doctor never met John Frobisher. One simple but boring theory is that John Frobisher is one of Caecilus’s descendants. A more interesting theory would be that John Frobisher is a descendant of Frobisher the shape shifting penguin. (Frobisher was a comics character who never appeared in any TV episodes, possibly due to the limited acting range of the average penguin)

    Presumably at some point in Earth’s past Frobisher took on the Twelfth’s appearance, and it was during that time he had a part human offspring. Due to some trick of Whifferdill genetics, male Frobishers not only can’t shape shift, but they all look exactly like the Twelfth.


    Whisht @whisht

    Ah, as ever @bluesqueakpip you seem to have a handle on all this, so you’ll know the answer to this.

    I’ve never believed @craig exists as a real person – it’s obviously a character played by Ed Norton. It’s not like Norton’s even bothered to use makeup to look that different (which is just a bit lazy to my mind).

    But I can’t tell if the character is Craig or that Norton is playing Ming the Merciless.

    So are you saying Craig is real, or that Norton is a character played by Craig, or that both are fictitious?

    And if so, does that mean Ming is real…?

    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip @tardisblue

    My preferred theory is that Caecilus is the (now known to be) 12th Dr, chameleon-arched, maybe hiding, maybe just taking a holiday, or trying on the human family thing for a change.  Hence the reason for Ten breaking the habit of (several) lifetimes and saving a seemingly random person from a fixed point. (Donna, being open to these things, picked it up on a deep psychic level)

    And the Frobisher as shape-shifting penguin who’s got stuck as Capaldi theory is a theory of genius! Works for me.


    … putting John Barrowman (Capt. Jack) in as the 13th.

    You have a problem with that…? 😉 (see @tardisblue‘s definitions of “actor”)

    ScaryB @scaryb


    Not sure about @craig or Ed Norton (or even Graham N) but Ming the Merciless is DEFINITELY real!!

    <looks nervously over shoulder for death rays and rockets>

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    @craig is played by Ming the Merciless. Ming the Merciless also plays Ed Norton. Do keep up.


    donnanobol @donnanobol

    i think Peter will not be a good Doctor becasue ( for me) he’s too boring, too normal as actor so he hasn’t got the ability for be the 12 doctor and he will be nere and ever better than matt smith or david tennant.

    ScaryB @scaryb

    @donnanobol Not much point in you watching the next series or commenting on here then. See you back when we’re on to the 13th Dr.  Or after you’ve opened your mind a bit and given Peter a chance.

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @bluesqueakpip Godzilla was also played by Frobisher the Whifferdill…

    TardisBlue @tardisblue


    Let me expand on what @scaryb said.

    Are you relying on his role as a government bureaucrat in Torchwood Children of Earth when you say Peter Capaldi is too boring to play a good Doctor?

    In Torchwood, Capaldi was hired as an actor to play a *character* who was a civil servant.  Government bureaucrats generally don’t go aroud wearing fezzes and saying “allons-y.”

    You can’t take this performance and assume he’ll act in exactly the same manner when he’s playing The Doctor.

    He’s won an Oscar (best short film, live action), the BAFTA TV award for best male actor in a comedy role (lif you’re in the states, think of it like an’ Emmy Award) , the British Comedy Award for best actor in a comedy twice – in 2010 and 2012  – and much more.  See

    Matt Smith, who plays the Eleventh Doctor, says Capaldi is “such an amazing actor and completely right for the part.”

    Why don’t you wait until you’ve seen several episodes of the next series before passing judgment on Capaldi?

    Or, if you really do just want to complain about Capaldi playing the Doctor, there are plenty of other places on the interwebs to do so.


    diasho @diasho

    Those of you that worry about his ability have nothing to worry about IMHO.  I think he will do a great job different than every other doctor yes but that is sort of the point of getting different actors to play him.  Young, old, blond hair, black hair, loud tie, bow tie, etc.   While I have not seen most of his other work just off Fires, his time on Torchwood, and a few clips I have seen of him since the announcement I believe he will do a great job.  Where he will fit in the list of great doctors, I will wait and see.


    I realize the actor and roll are different.  However if the actor has  played an iconic or memorable roll in the same or intersecting series unless huge steps are taken to make the actor look and sound different suspending disbelief for those watching the show becomes difficult.IE it would have been foolish for those doing the Harry Potter series to put Allen Rickmen back in in a different roll after Snape died or to put David Tennant back in after his character barty jr was removed via dementors.  People would have noticed and even though the actor had a new name unless drastic steps were taken that actor would always be who they originally were in the minds of those that knew their original work well.  Granted this is an extreme example I used it on purpose to illustrate the point.

    I do like the idea of The Doctor taking on the face of a family that once worshiped him and as a way to remind him of people he has saved and past companions.  That would solve the problem moffit would just need to find a creative way to write that into the first episode maybe even have the marble sculpture of him and Donna be in the Tardis.  If it was there not much more would need to be said.




    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    I think you’re missing the point here. Let’s summarise the pattern, just in case @phaseshift or any of the other mods need to cast an eye.

    You’ve joined up and immediately posted on ‘Peter Capaldi should not be the next Doctor’. You quote another poster from a month back – who didn’t get any bites – who likewise joined up and immediately posted on ‘Peter Capaldi shouldn’t be the next Doctor because he’s played other parts’ and who has a strangely similar writing style.

    You’ve had advice from both myself and @tardisblue. My advice was ‘come up with a mad theory’. TardisBlue’s advice was ‘this site can tell the difference between actor and role’. Note spelling of ‘role’. Your response is to continue with a convoluted explanation which seems to consist of ‘I have a remarkable paucity of imagination and cannot possibly suspend my disbelief to accept an actor in a different role in the same series.’ This for a series which has a history of re-casting guest actors in leading roles as a different character and to a forum whose members could come up with five entirely plausible explanations before breakfast.

    God forbid you ever book for an RSC season … though I’m glad you like the ‘deliberately takes on Caecilius’s face’ theory.

    Now, if you want us to think you’re not the Lesser Spotted One Topic Troll, have a look on our other forums and discuss something else. Alternatively, come up with your own mad theory to explain why the Twelfth Doctor has chameleon arched himself and is now playing Peter Capaldi. 😉

    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord


    @bluesqueakpip is quite right. Talking to yourself (even on the internet) should be considered the first sign of madness.

    I could take you through why this isn’t a problem in the context of the long history of WHO but frankly I can’t be bothered. If Capaldi appearing in a guest role is a problem for you, then it remains your problem. The rest of us will bid you a fond farewell with a shrug.

    The generation that Capaldi has to win over won’t remember him in Fires of Pompeii or Torchwood. They are a bit too young.

    TardisBlue @tardisblue


    While @phaseshift was keeping things short and simple, I was working on this long response.

    I guess I like to keep things simple.  My feeble brain has enough work to do keeping what happens in the Doctor Who TV episodes & the McGann movie straight.  These are what I watch and am familiar with.

    I have paid little attention to what happens in Torchwood (which I pretty much  stopped watching after the first season) and none whatsoever to the Sarah Jane Adventures (which BBCAmerica did not carry). I became aware that Capaldi had a role in Torchwood, but in my mind that didn’t mean that his character was part of the on-going Doctor Who series.

    I see Torchwood like a stream that meanders off along its own path while the river that is the Doctor Who TV series flows steadily forward.  I move forward with the river, ignoring whatever might be happening back in the stream.

    I don’t think your Harry Potter examples match what’s going on here.  The Potter books are like individual episodes in a TV series, like a river which flows from point A to point B, etc.  Torchwood is a spin off.  It’s like the meandering stream.  It can go all over the place independently off the river, from its own point (a) to its own point (b), etc.   Imagine that Peter Capaldi is a fish in the stream at point (h).  When he’s cast as The Doctor, Capaldi is, in effect, scooped up in a net and transported to poit X in the river, where he is released.  The river is one thing, the stream another.  At least, that’s how it works for me.

    Additionally, this not the first time that an actor who has appeared in an earlier Doctor Who episode has subsequently been cast as the Doctor.  The Sixth Doctor was portrayed by Colin Baker.  As The Nerdist explains: “Colin Baker was a veteran character actor who had in fact already been on Doctor Who. He played Time Lord Security commander Maxil in the story “Arc of Infinity,” the adventure that began season 20.

    Hope this makes sense

    And I agree with PhaseShift about the vast majority of current Doctor Who viewers not remembering him in The Fires of Pompeii, and not knowing anything about Children of Earth



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