Twice Upon a Time

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This topic contains 169 replies, has 42 voices, and was last updated by  Kevin Who 4 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #63242
    Missy @missy

    @thane16

    Sorry I didn’t respond.

    I agree, Murray Gold must be completely spent.  We only hope that the musical scores will be as superb as

    Murray gold.

    Missy

    #63245
    Missy @missy

    @ichabod: I’ve watched it twice; found it satisfying and nourishing, and largely sufficient to its purposes.  Hell.  I think I loved it.

    Me too.

    @idiotsavonI’ve nothing smart to say. I just loved it, and I’ve got snot on my sleeve. What a great way for a fine writer and a fine actor to bow out together.

    As did I.  Although  I won’t see 70 again, the 12th Doctor was a father figure in my mind.

    My opinion, but that is how PC’s acting and the writing made me feel and why I shall miss both of them so much.

    Missy

     

    #63246
    Missy @missy

    @blenkinsopthebrave:

    That’s what my husband always says. “You aren’t supposed to think about that, it’s in the script.”

    I still wish Mr. M could have let The Doctor know that Missy was going to stand with him after all, instead

    of remembering Clara.

    Missy

    #63247
    ichabod @ichabod

    @pedant  It has been established that Doctors lose memories of future Doctors (ref: Day of the Doctor) and that even future doctors can bury the memory of entire regenerations (ref: War Doctor). This is canon.

    So, when he says things like, “I remember every single thing!” he’s, ah, lying, or boasting, or trying to convince himself that it’s not true that he sometimes forgets significantly large chunks of stuff, or even deliberately jettisons bits to make room for more new stuff and less confusion.  Which makes a whole lot more sense, in a traveler who’s 900-2,000 yrs old, than remembering *everything* that’s happened to him or that he’s done in his very, very, very long past.

    Poetic license, I think, and necessary to being able to write a current story that isn’t strangled at birth in its own past complications and hanging chads.  As it were.

    This is one of those reasons that, normally, I avoid time travel stories.  A reasonable assessment of the weight of past memories for *anybody*, TL or not, would make freshness and a freedom to play with plot pretty impossible.  Kind of like, suppose reincarnation is real, but every single one of us suddenly can remember every single detail of every single one of her past lifetimes, in including the ones that only lasted until age 8 or less.  Result: universal paralysis, I think, brains seizing up right and left with the effort to deal with it all, and lots and lots of anti-psychotic drugs prescribed, not to mention self-medication.

     

    #63248
    MissRori @missrori

    @ichabod You make good points on the memory issue.  Of course this was considered in Series 9 with the Ashildr/Me arc, with the idea of her human brain not able to hold all the memories of her evolving existence, and the larger conceit of characters forgetting/being made to forget/remembering things in turn, starting with Davros remembering his encounter with Twelve.*

    Not-so-incidentally I notice that the upcoming RegenerationWho convention in Baltimore is doing a whole panel on “Memory and Identity in the Moffat Era”!

    *Now that I think about it, that kind of fell through in “Hell Bent” when Me still remembered “Face the Raven”‘s events — wouldn’t she have wanted to forget that whole business if she could, out of guilt if nothing else?  Unless someone hounded her those billions of years over what she did (we know it wasn’t the Doctor!)…she possibly encountering people who loved him and would hold their own grudges, perhaps?  Come to think of it, how did she find out about Missy anyway? 😉

    #63249
    MissRori @missrori

    @missy I would have liked to see Twelve learn that he brought Missy around to the side of “gud” too given how the Testimony works, especially as she was the one constant in his grand arc as it were, but at the same time that would have compromised the nature of her demise — “Without hope, without witness, without reward”.  Between that and Moffat regretting having Twelve lose his memories of Clara, well, Clara won the comeback sweepstakes.

    Then again, perhaps that’s a sign that she actually survived Floor 507, possibly via regeneration — the Testimony couldn’t come for her since it takes people just before they permanently die.  (Or it doesn’t take Time Lords because the Doctor’s right and their memories really would shatter them!)  Given that the Master/Mistress is the most popular standalone villain (as opposed to villain race like the Daleks or Cybermen), they’re bound to return somewhere down the line, likely in a new body, and perhaps matters will be resolved then — i.e., if they regenerated, did they stay good or not?

    #63250
    Missy @missy

    @missrori;

    The Master – in some shape or gender – will return. He was only stabbed so he can regenerate.

    He made sure Missy couldn’t.

    Missy

    #63254
    10th Doctor Fan @ddoherty95

    He master returning is a scary thought.

     

    look what he did in the sound of drums, etc.

    #63261
    Missy @missy

    @ddoherty95;

    Ah, but when he returned the drums had gone.

    Missy never heard them. or if she did, no one mentioned it.

    Missy

    #63265
    10th Doctor Fan @ddoherty95

    @missy

     

    but think what the master could do if he returned, the whole world would be in danger.

     

    But that’s normal for Doctor Who

    #63267
    janetteB @janetteb

    I think it likely that the Master will return as Master not Missy now that the Doctor is female. The gender tension between them worked so well. Keeping the accent would be nice.
    cheers
    Janette

    #63269
    Missy @missy

    @janetteb;

    Which accent is that?

    I found that the tension between the male Doctor and male Master, worked just as well.

    It is such a pity that River has gone. I wonder what the dynamics would have been between her and this female Doctor.

    I know where I’d put my money. *whistles nonchalantly*

    Missy

     

    #63270
    10th Doctor Fan @ddoherty95

    I agree with @missy

     

    the male tension between, say, Tennant and the master worked well, so I think they might use the same idea for Whittaker.

    makes sense to me.

     

    #63271
    10th Doctor Fan @ddoherty95

    What do you all think the drumming in the master’s head means/symbolises?

     

    Or maybe I’m just odd and it’s just him sent crazy by the untempered schism.

    #63276
    Missy @missy

    @ddoherty95:

    I thought that too, until in one episode I believe the President of Gallifrey admitted that they planted the drums in his head so they could find him…or somesuch

    Missy

    #63278
    10th Doctor Fan @ddoherty95

    Oh, I see.

     

    Imagine that!

    #66888
    Kevin Who @kevinwho

    Looking back on beloved Christmas episodes, one thing that struck me at the time was how thematically unified this episode was.  It’s all transitions:

    • Both Doctors are about to regenerate.
    • Bill and the other glass people have all had their memories taken just before transitioning out of life.
    • The Christmas Truce was a transition period between times of warfare.
    • Even the foundation behind the glass people was in transition, or about to be; weren’t they established as existing just before the plague in Gridlock broke out?

    One comment about why Bill didn’t remember Heather.  Didn’t Twelve tell Bill in The Pilot not to go with Heather, “it will kill you”?  Something like that?  So I always assumed that the moment Heather rescued her from cyberlife, Bill’s life had to end at that moment – and then transition to the possibly immortal form Heather also has.

    #66906
    Missy @missy

    @kevinwho

    Thing is, heather saved Bill and put her to the way she was she had a choice.

    BILL: So I’m like you now. I’m not human any more.
    HEATHER: I can make you human again. It’s all just atoms. You can rearrange them any way you like. I can put you back home, you can make chips, and live your life, or you can come with me. It’s up to you, Bill, but, before you make up your mind .

    Missy

     

    #66909

    @kevinwho

    One comment about why Bill didn’t remember Heather.

    The comprehensive, nay definitive, explanation is given here

    #66910
    Kevin Who @kevinwho

    @pedant – I’ll never forget the hot lesbo action.  Wait, did I say that right? 😀

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