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12 May 2013 at 00:52 #8661
I think … they do it with mirrors
Which would mean that Clara is a ‘mirror’ to the Doctor. Which would explain why I’m getting ‘Twelfth Doctor’ vibes; if JLC has been told she’s a mirror to the Doctor, she effectively will be playing the Doctor.
Like Narcissus, the Doctor is becoming enraptured by his own reflection.
And with that, I’m off to bed. Hope the night shift enjoy the episode!
🙂
12 May 2013 at 00:17 #8660@twoheartsoneship – Nope, but the badge Clara was wearing looked like angel wings on a wreath, to me, rather than a phoenix.
Welcome!
12 May 2013 at 00:05 #8658By the way, my thought is that Clara might possibly be a double trap. She’s a trap for the Doctor – but she’s also a trap for the people who set the trap for the Doctor.
12 May 2013 at 00:01 #8656Yes, it was a peculiar episode in that you could summarise the plot on the back of a postage note – and yet, it felt like quite a lot was going on – but under the surface.
Which is, I think, why we’re really not discussing it very much yet. It needs some thought.
11 May 2013 at 23:40 #8651Yes, I went to the Graun, made a comment, read some – and think I’ll give the place a miss this week.
As far as I can summarise things;
[insert actor’s name here] can’t act. They just raise their eyebrows/look quizzical/open their eyes wide/have a big chin.
[insert character’s name here] is badly written. They’re too inconsistent/overconfident/bossy/lack character/act smart/act dumb/talk too fast.
[insert writer’s name here] can’t write. They’re trying to be too cool/aren’t cool enough/need a better script editor/are dragging out the plot/are rushing through the plot too quickly/are making elementary mistakes/leave plot holes/solve plot holes by DeM.
[insert names of current series leads here] have no chemistry/have so much chemistry it feels incestuous/make no connection/do too much repartee/have no visible attraction/are way too flirty/should be asexual.
[Insert current producer here] makes things oversentimental/undersentimental/too complicated/can’t do endings/can’t do series beginnings/can’t do series arcs/is too cold/too soppy/forgets the kids/forgets the adults/forgets the audience/just generally should be someone else.
[Insert current series here] is too complex/too childish/too dark/too comic/too badly plotted/all plot and no heart/has too many stand-alone episodes/has a too-complicated series arc
[Insert programme length here] is too short/much too short/far too short. The series should be 60 minutes/two-episode stories/four-episode stories /eight-episode stories/black and white.Â
😀
11 May 2013 at 22:25 #8635@Shazzbot and @juniperfish – I suspect that’s another hint. This is Eleven. You know, the one who blushes when human sex is talked about. The one who was leapt on by Amy, and Nefertiti, and told them both ‘no’. The one who is married.
I know I was thinking that maybe he and River keep the relationship fairly open, since they have to match diaries to check if the wedding’s happened yet – but while they’re keeping it on a family friendly level, his mind’s pretty obviously running along the lines of having sex with his current companion. This week it went beyond flirting; he very clearly wants to sleep with her. The lines indicate that he wants to sleep with her. And it’s being played as distinctly out of character – even the Doctor knows he shouldn’t be going in that direction.Â
So – Clara? Or the Doctor?
11 May 2013 at 21:52 #8611I’m still going for ‘if this is happening inside the Doctor’s head, it’s recapping what’s gone wrong’. Simply because audiences loathe ‘it was all a dream’. Well, I certainly do. 😈
11 May 2013 at 21:46 #8608Reposting from the Graun, which is a right moan-fest tonight:
It was a good, fun, episode – and a salutary reminder that travelling with the Doctor isn’t safe. Even when he’s trying to take the kids for a day out, he ends up nearly getting them killed.
Which was, I think, why the kids were there. The Doctor was a good and loving grandparent (and presumably parent) – but his granddaughter was safer in a post-apocalyptic wasteland than she was with him. He nearly wrecked little Amelia’s life and he did fail to rescue her baby until she was an adult. And now Angie and Artie, instead of being promptly taken out of danger, get left on a sofa to be kidnapped by Cybermen.
The Doctor loves kids. He wants to protect them. Â But he was the one who put them in danger.
11 May 2013 at 21:22 #8595@whisht – this wasn’t exactly a trailer, more a minisode. It has a title and a writer’s credit. So it’s a bit tricky; trailer? Or an extra episode before next week’s finale?
If you and @scaryb could say whether you’re going to watch it; as I said above, it’s written by S. Moffat, so if it gives anything away he doesn’t want, I’ll go to the foot of our stairs. 🙂
11 May 2013 at 21:08 #8588Yes, I did. Do you mean the ‘She said, He said’ minisode?  It’s on the website, and the red button option for digital, and probably on YouTube shortly.Â
But I didn’t think it told you who Clara was. The writer was one S. Moffat; so anything we’ve just been told is almost certainly the characters’ beliefs – but complete misdirection.
11 May 2013 at 20:54 #8582@miapatrick – yes, I watched that performance and thought of @juniperfish‘s Dark Doctor.
And we’re definitely drifting back in the direction of a ‘programmed’ Clara, aren’t we? She can do anything required. Except, when required to be a soldier – she’s very good at it, but loses.
Now the difference between Clara in this episode and Clara in Cold War is that her negotiation role was her own suggestion. Broadly, I’m thinking: when Clara is a free agent, she saves the day. When Clara is told to do something, she’s not as effective – as if the command becomes a constraint which stops her genuine abilities.
Query to the Cyberiad: has Clara ever disobeyed a direct command from the Doctor? We’ve all noted her odd capacity for staying where she’s told to stay, which is most unlike the usual run of companions. But has she ever disobeyed a direct order from him?
11 May 2013 at 20:44 #8580@htpbdet – perhaps they were all supporters of the losing team in the FA Cup final? (not saying who in case anyone has recorded it for later).
That was fun, though (the episode, not the cup final).
11 May 2013 at 12:03 #8515@fulcanelli – okay, that’s it. See you after the show, folks.
11 May 2013 at 11:10 #8502Yes, giving the actors exactly the same warm coat is the sort of little joke the costume department would come up with. 🙂
11 May 2013 at 11:08 #8501@scaryb – the computer program also had an ‘operated by a musical pass key’ option, though I’m increasingly inclined to suspect that the ‘music’ references are a ‘trust River Song‘ message.
We also had ‘Alternate Eleventh Doctor’ and ‘the Doctor’s other half – he used/will use one of his hearts to create her’.
11 May 2013 at 10:42 #8495So, anyway. Tonight’s episode.
Tonight’s episode is the pre-finale. So far, for pre-finales, Moffat has given us the complete destruction of the universe (Pandorica Opens) and the complete collapse of time (Closing Time – and I’ve just realised what a terrible pun that title was).
And the BBC have moved the broadcast time to a later start of 7pm. So I’m guessing that the final scene is also going to be one of complete and utter disaster – and the later start is because they want the tinies in bed. Dalekised Doctor? Clara and the kids turned into Cybermen? The destruction… of reality… ITSELF?
The show is over?
Eight hours left for (unspoilered) speculation. What disaster has The Moff come up with this time? 😯
11 May 2013 at 10:23 #8492er, sister
@whohar – correct. Yes, my avatar does reflect my gender; with Pip being more a boy’s nickname than a girl’s nickname, things can sometimes get a little confusing.
I was the smallest and the youngest in the family and so inevitably attracted the nickname ‘Pipsqueak’ 😀
11 May 2013 at 09:04 #8486Anyone who says they have a simple answer to morality will hand you a holy book
And they will be wrong. People who see the world in black and white will tend to find simple, straightforward answers in the most complex of texts – often while their co-religionists are looking at them funny and saying ‘it’s not that simple’. Most holy books are very far from describing a simple morality; because, y’know, life isn’t simple.
But moving away from religion (because I’ve got a Masters in the subject, and I will go on) – I think people are perfectly right to say JLC’s portrayal of Clara currently doesn’t have the gravitas to be, say, the Twelfth. But that’s written in – whoever she will be, she’s presently An Ordinary Human Girl, and all she appears to remember is her life as An Ordinary Human Girl. She’s not one thousand-and-however-many-centuries-really-can’t-remember years old. She’s twenty six.
Did twenty-six year old John Smith from Gallifrey have the gravitas of The Doctor? I doubt it; he was probably busy chasing girls and worrying about his grades. The closest we came to seeing The Doctor before he was ‘The Doctor’ was watching ‘Doctor Who?’ turn into The Doctor.
And in this fiftieth anniversary year, that might be what’s happening. The cycle starts again as we watch ‘Doctor WHO?’ turn into ‘The Doctor’. In which case you would not expect the actress to be playing the finished product; she’s at the beginning of her character arc. The story is about the Companion and their journey – in this case, the Companion is also The Doctor, and the story about – I dunno. Possibly about who can lay claim to ‘The Name of The Doctor’. 🙂
I seem to have nailed my flag firmly to the mast of ‘Clara as the Twelfth’ (or possibly ‘Clara as the Potential Twelfth’); I’d say that – at the moment – if I had to place a bet I’d still be looking at even money. Fifty fifty. There’s other  possibilities open, other bets I’d still be willing to take a punt on (she could still be his great-granddaughter, for example, and that’s why she’s so like him); Moffat’s got this tendency to pull out something that makes perfect sense in hindsight, but you could never guess in advance.
10 May 2013 at 21:06 #8468“We’re also sending the Doctor’s worst enemy, the Daleks, to exterminate lots of innocent people. Sorry, it’s just what they do. Let us know if it’s a Health and Safety issue.”
Steven Moffat always makes me laugh.
10 May 2013 at 17:20 #8447Okay, so now we know what the Doctor does when he’s in need of money….
They’re bigger on the inside. And big on the insides 🙂
10 May 2013 at 17:17 #8445@satsumajoe – no, no, no. Arch Recon is the name of the bloke who designed the Type 42 TARDIS.
His full name is Archie Recon, but he thought it was a bit common for a Time Lord 🙂
10 May 2013 at 16:29 #8439@phaseshift – yes. If JLC proves to be the Twelfth Doctor, this whole storyline with the Impossible Girl will be a result of – basically – the production team knowing that they have to smuggle a female Doctor into the show. Because you know, absolutely know, that if it was announced in advance that a female actor was playing the Doctor, there would be such a massive – well, I’ve used the term ‘Internet shitstorm’ before. Betrayal of the show, yes. Insult to the role, yes. Production team’s head on a platter – I’ve heard all this from certain sections of fandom when the possibility is even suggested; so lord knows what the reaction would be like before the poor woman even stepped on set.
And yet it’s this whole thing about ‘the room to fail’. Would Who work with a woman in the leading role? It might well; detective series were traditionally very masculine affairs, and we’ve now got quite a number of successful series with women detectives as the leading character. It would certainly be worth an experiment; while it might not work, it might. And if it did, we might discover a whole new aspect to the character of the Doctor and a whole new approach to the show.
Or we might not. But it’s worth a try.
10 May 2013 at 15:14 #8434I love the thought that at one point, they had an entire whiteboard in the Production office which consisted entirely of trying to relate River’s timeline to the show timeline. It must have looked like a plate of spaghetti.
@scaryb – that music analogy’s a really good one. No, you don’t like every single song of your favourite artist, and yes, they’ve produced some crap. Because that’s the way art works; you try – sometimes you fail. And a song which half the fandom think is great will be ‘over-sentimental’ and ‘badly written’ to another section.
I always say: if you don’t like the current production team – another set will be along in a few years time. And they’ll have a new take, a new set of ideas, a new style. And probably a new Doctor. That’s been the beauty of Who ever since William Hartnell handed over to Patrick Troughton; from that moment, change was built-in.
10 May 2013 at 10:40 #8412@htpbdet – thanks for that! If it’s spoiler free I will dip in once I’ve actually got some work done…
10 May 2013 at 10:28 #8410@craig – just a comment on opening up the next episode forum early.
From the point of view of someone not going in there – because I want to stay unspoiled – it’s feeling a bit frustrating. I can’t go into the Nightmare in Silver forum because spoilers are allowed; but The Crimson Horror forum no longer feels as if anyone’s speculating on the next episode. Which is logical, because the next episode forum is open – you can do the episode-specific speculation there.
So definitely ‘frustrating’. I don’t dare go in there; but I can see it’s being used. A lot. And I don’t know whether it’s being used a lot because people are speculating madly, or talking about spoilers. 🙂
9 May 2013 at 23:27 #8401@ardaraith – got caught by it as well (just before @thommck posted) when I was checking for Saturday’s broadcast time. Folks, avoid the Radio Times site if you’re avoiding spoilers. The dratted thing’s on the front page.
Having thought about it, I do suspect it’s a massive piece of misdirection. But unless it goes all over everywhere, probably now best discussed on the Spoilers thread.
9 May 2013 at 22:19 #8393@thommck – I tend to regard the Radio Times as releasing what the producers want released. So either a) John Hurt can’t keep his mouth shut, and they’re making the best of it 😈 or b) it’s not as obvious as it looks.
🙂
9 May 2013 at 13:41 #8311Hoping Mr. Gaiman will give us a treat, and some more clues.
@whohar – or lead us straight into the finale. 😯
9 May 2013 at 13:33 #8310@satsumajoe – my current mad theory about the leaf/Clara’s mum is that she was Susan Foreman, hiding out during the Time War.
Hiding out because the Time Lords were planning to use her as a hostage for the Doctor’s good behaviour. If his granddaughter was on Gallifrey, surely the Doctor could never destroy/Time Lock it.
So Susan was chameleon arched, placed in Blackpool (non-canonically, an area the Eighth Doctor knew well) and takes the name ‘Ellie Ravenwood’ from an old book she picked up in a charity shop. She spots this guy about to die in freak leaf accident, and still having that acute sense of time we saw with John Smith in Human Nature, diverts the about-to-be-fatal accident. And then, just like her Grandfather in Human Nature, she promptly falls in love.
And then, she dies. And the Doctor returns to Earth. Perhaps the Time Lords found her – but the Doctor destroyed Gallifrey anyway, even knowing Susan was there.
Who Clara is in this scenario remains to be seen; Susan’s own human child, River and the Doctor’s child hidden with her or possibly a reborn Doctor?
The photographs, I’d guess, are being taken by the Big Bad, who obviously has time travel. In which case, given that this probably is some timey-wimey plan by the Doctor’s friends, it’s vitally important that any investigation comes up with ‘normal, Clara’s perfectly normal, impossibility is due to time accident, nothing to see here, move along’. 🙂
9 May 2013 at 12:42 #8302@thommck – Clara’s ‘The Nanny’ rather than ‘The Doctor’?
Moffat being fond of timey-wimey, it could be that Clara is going to look after baby-Doctor rather than has looked after baby-Doctor. It would be very funny if the Doctor ended up in his own cot. Again. But I think they’re emphasising Clara as Mary Poppins. Or Nanny McPhee, whichever. But emphasising the idea of a magical being who drops out of the sky, takes care of the kids and sets things to rights.
As opposed to a magical being “soaked in the blood of a thousand galaxies. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.”
Clara is here to change the story. She may not know that’s what she’s doing – but that’s what she’s here for.
8 May 2013 at 22:11 #8272@ardaraith – I really don’t see the companions as having any kind of ‘exceptionalness of humanity’ or ‘human morality is the way to go’. The problem isn’t that human morality is superior or anything, it’s that the NuWho Doctor starts off as a classic case of PTSD and badly needs people to help him. The cultural vibe I suspect RTD absorbed was all those shell-shocked refugees from various wars; Kosovo, Iran, Iraq, Somalia.
The Companions are human because they’re our viewpoint characters (for NuWho). They become exceptional. This is a family show; we do not want to teach children to aspire to being immoral and below-average. 🙂 We want to teach them to take moral responsibility – even if the person behaving badly (i.e. the Doctor) has the authority – and, basically, to grow up to become the people who save the universe, not destroy it.
I suspect the 50th is going to see a reset in ‘the Doctor needs Companions to stop him’ and a move towards ‘it’s not good to be alone’. Back to the more Classic pattern of the Doctor travelling with a group of people because he or she likes them.
If you look at the Paternoster Gang, the leader is definitely not human, and did not learn to be moral from humans. She has a human wife; but the Paternoster Gang is run along Madame Vastra’s principles, not Miss Jenny’s. The moral influence on Madame Vastra was stated as – the Doctor. Similarly, in Crimson Horror it’s the Doctor who suggests taking Mr Sweet somewhere he’d become harmless, and Ada who smashes the little bug to bits. 🙂
In Journey the most caring and moral of the brothers is the one who thinks he’s an android.
8 May 2013 at 16:21 #8231@htpbdet – ’twas someone online. And it was before broadcast, so they had NO excuse.
As the saying goes: may they be infested with the fleas of a thousand camels …
8 May 2013 at 12:15 #8208@phileasf – thanks for the clarification – like @scaryb I’m trying to go cold turkey on spoilers and it’s not easy. I’ve never forgotten being spoiled for the ending of Utopia – and waiting for the big reveal you know is coming is quite a different experience to having your jaw drop to the floor when it happens.
I’ve discovered I prefer the latter.
As far as Steven Moffat is concerned: Rule One – The Moff lies. Through his teeth, in fact. Not ‘equivocates’; he’ll flat out tell a blatant lie to protect his surprises. I don’t trust anything he’s said; including his current explanations for past episodes.
‘Production error’ is such a handy phrase. 😀
7 May 2013 at 23:31 #8181Think “afternoon tea with the Doctor”. There will be tea and jammy dodgers, but any daleks demanding that the show be exterminated will be roundly dealt with and all cybermen who explain that this is a kids show will be deleted.
😀
7 May 2013 at 22:58 #8173And they’ve closed the Graun blog to comments again. Thank you again, @craig, for setting up this lovely site so that we can witter on all week.
7 May 2013 at 22:33 #8166Her parents own a production company that specialises in entertainment news. I too hope that her parents are giving her plenty of down time, but it may simply be that she really enjoys being part of her parents work. Kids often do want to ‘help out in the shop’.
I believe Steven Moffat’s older boy has been acting as an unofficial script reader for some time now; he also had a small voice-only part in one of the Sherlock episodes (produced by his grandmother’s production company), playing a child hostage.
7 May 2013 at 22:13 #81617 May 2013 at 22:06 #8159@jimthefish – the funny thing about the DeM ::hands over virtual witch hazel for the twitching eye:: – is that the people who complain loudly and repeatedly that any plot device they didn’t see coming is a DeM, dammit! usually can’t spot the real things. Or alternatively, can’t spot the generally rather obvious sign that the writer knew perfectly well they were writing a DeM.
So a Duck Eggs Machina would probably be a Deus Ex Machina written as an actual god riding up the side of a building on his motorbike. Or by a central character being transformed into a glowy goddess by operating a  machine. 😀
7 May 2013 at 21:45 #8153@haveyoufedthefish – I was thinking more in terms of ‘Every planet has a North’ rather than Matt Smith trying to imitate Chris Eccleston’s Salford tones. What Matt Smith was doing was definitely NOT a Salford accent. 🙂
I believe his Dad’s from Darwen, though, so he may have been going for that.
7 May 2013 at 17:35 #8129Â Thus effectively re-setting the playing field for brand new adventures as the Doctor grows upÂ
I think we may have just seen the Doctor grow up – in Rings of Akhaten 🙂
My head is saying Clara’s a descendent. My heart, increasingly, is saying ‘she’s the Doctor’.
7 May 2013 at 16:12 #8123Just a brief thought – we had Eleven adopting a bit of mockney during Cold War – probably a shout-out to Ten. Was the heavy Northern accent during Crimson Horror a shout-out to Nine?
7 May 2013 at 15:23 #81197 May 2013 at 14:30 #8116Thinking about the ‘loop in time’ idea, this morning; that is the idea that the whole of Eleven’s tenure, from meeting little Amelia onwards, may be part of one giant loop.
The Silence have tried killing the Doctor. It didn’t work; he found a way out of being killed. Okay, assassination doesn’t work. What can you do?
Stick him in a time loop? He goes round and round and round, and he can never do anything else beyond those events. He never gets beyond Eleven. It’s better than killing him, because he can never get beyond the 50th Anniversary. And it might also explain the multiple Clara’s – she keeps getting flung to another point in time, where the Doctor’s enemies succeed in killing her.
Except the Doctor is a sneaky old man, and has been carefully leaving messages. Like the loop in Journey, there’s a way of breaking out of it, of changing the course of the future – if he can only find it.
Follow the music. The music room is the heart of the house. Who is his ‘heart’? The one person in the whole of his fifty years of on-screen adventures (and several centuries in his life) that he’s actually married?
River Song – real name Melody. But there is one question in my mind: if those constant references to music are a ‘trust River, follow River’ message – are they for the Doctor? Or are they a message to Clara?
7 May 2013 at 13:35 #8113@ardaraith – River does say it never happened to Amy: who promptly corrects her. It may have technically never happened, but she knows she left Madame Kovarian to die.
Similarly, while the wedding may technically have never happened, the Doctor has said ‘I’m married’ a few times now. Though it didn’t work with Nefertiti, whose response was ‘so am I, and he’s the human equivalent of a sleeping draught!’ 🙂
With regards to the Time Lords being restored disengaging the Doctor from the human race: probably an area where having grown up with the Classic Series is an advantage. The Time Lords were around throughout that – and the Doctor was still very engaged with humans.
@satsumajoe – I think the little Queen of Years is Clara’s ‘mirror’. Or rather, I think she’s what might have happened to Clara – but didn’t. I suspect Clara will turn out to be connected to the Time Lords in some way; but she’s the opposite to the Queen of Years – she was allowed to grow up without the burden of having to carry the entirety of her culture’s stories, songs and history. In fact, she “always hated history.”
Clara’s all about the present. When she has to, she can let the past go.
7 May 2013 at 01:39 #8091Anyway, before I trot off to bed:
There’ve been a lot of characters mirroring the Doctor, this half of S7. In Bells of St John it might have been the GI; in fact it’s possible the GI absorbed more of Troughton’s Doctor than he thought. In Rings it was the Grandfather god. In Cold War it was the Professor. In Hide we had another Professor.
More mirrors here. A very dark mirror, Mrs Gillyflower; and probably considerably more unfeeling. But she’s the Doctor’s mirror – brilliant, inventive, and completely nuts. She also has a child; and she’s talking to a man who quite possibly also sacrificed his own child – or grandchild – to ‘the greater good’. Grandfather-Doctor, Curious-Scientist-Doctor, War-hero-and-Polymath-Doctor – and here is Dark Doctor, so detached from his own feelings that he’s able to take the decision to end the Time War by destroying his own world, his own children.
Mrs Gillyflower might even be able to argue that she was more moral than he was. At least she planned to save a remnant, to start again.
Perhaps the Doctor’s trying not to care not because he lacks empathy – but because he was born an empath in a society that valued detachment above everything else. And caring in a universe that doesn’t care hurts; it hurts unbearably. Better to have a sliver of ice in your heart.
But he has two. And as we see in this episode, once the plastic-doll shell of ‘The Doctor’ is stripped away, the real boy beneath it shows his other heart – which is warm, alive – and caring.
7 May 2013 at 00:45 #8087By the way, I’m firmly convinced Cybus cybermen are now stuck in that alternate dimension forever. 10.5 has blasted every single one into oblivion.
I’m okay with the initial story, since they did need a quick way of reintroducing the Cybermen – and they also needed to find somewhere to pop Rose, since Billie Piper was leaving. But now we’ve done that, I’d like the Mondas Cybermen back, please.
7 May 2013 at 00:37 #8085Â and the idea of reverting to a previous form (including childhood).
@pedant – well, to be fair, I have been saying that for a bit. It’s one possible explanation for Clara – the Doctor reverts to babyhood – and his/her cycle starts all over again. Clara’s the Doctor, but currently she has no memory of being the Doctor. She has no memory of being anyone but Clara Oswald.
Why is the Doctor wearing that fobwatch?
But there’s nothing to stop both that happening and River getting pregnant. She and the Doctor are married – and so far in the series ‘marriage’ has translated as ‘there will be babies’.
Riffing off the various meta-analyses of S5, S6 and S7:
In S5 Amy learnt to grow up – and got married. In S6 we have fathers-and-sons; Amy, meanwhile, loses (and regains) her daughter. In S7 we have mothers-and-daughters; Rory, meanwhile, narrates (a video extra) how he and Amy adopted a son. Parents and their children; the running theme. Fathers and sons, mothers and daughters.
Amy’s wedding was the S5 finale, her daughter River’s wedding was the S6 finale. So what’s the S7 finale? What comes after a wedding?
We know that Amy and Rory have an adopted son. We also know that final scene was cut from the  episode – but then released on the web so that it’s pretty well official. They have an adopted son. It could be a red herring; but it occurs to me that if River goes to the Library and the Doctor loses all his memories – any child there might be is going to need to be looked after; and the best people would probably be his grandparents.
But it could be a red herring; a coda to Amy and Rory’s story to show that – while stuck – they ended up living a happy life.7 May 2013 at 00:01 #8076@haveyoufedthefish – I was going to say turn off the auto-correct!
6 May 2013 at 23:27 #80636 May 2013 at 23:05 #8054@haveyoufedthefish – that’s why I wonder if one solution is that the Doctor’s descendants are going to turn out to be … us. You don’t need to be tortured to be fighting for your (possibly adopted) family.
After all, in the meta – and @htpbdet and @phaseshift and @PhineasF have been wonderful on the meta-meanings of S5, 6 & 7 – this generation of showrunners and directors and writers are the Doctor’s descendants. His ‘children’ are now telling his story.
It’s doable in-story; it’s already canon that a chameleon arched Time Lord can have human children. Which might be why there’s been so much emphasis on establishing that Clara is currently human, definitely human, couldn’t be more human. 🙂 Or she might be the Doctor, who (sorry!) having grown up and lived as a human for over twenty-six years – with human adoptive parents – would probably see us as being as much her people as the Time Lords were.
Possibly the Eighth Doctor was unconsciously telling the truth when he lied about his mother being human. He just didn’t realise he meant his future mother 🙂
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