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8 June 2013 at 12:40 #12053
That’s a relief (that it isn’t to be announced). It’s summer and the silly season may at least focus on Who.
To confirm this, in the land of you really can’t make this up, political polling company YouGov has completed some invaluable general public research into attitudes to Doctor Who, important traits for whoever gets cast, and just who is the least and most favourite Doctor.
Poor Sylvester.
7 June 2013 at 14:24 #11986@Shazzbot, @jimthefish, @scaryb
I’m happy to take guidance on this in accordance with whatever @craig decides.
Personally if regular commentators want to link to commercial sites (as I do if I see merchandise which I think might interest people) or external sites which may be of interest, I think that’s one thing, but using webspace to advertise your own interests without contributing is entirely another.
I think it’s inevitable it happens as we grow, and some of our pages go higher in Google rankings. I did a google search for “The Paternoster Gang” because I had an idea to update my blog entry and wanted to check some facts, and was mightily surprised to see it on the front page somewhere inbetween the official Paternoster “book of face” page and a BBC entry. Freaked me out slightly.
7 June 2013 at 14:11 #11985As we’re touching on female writers in the Whoniverse elsewhere, it timely to point out that it has been left to US writer Richelle Mead to do the short story for the Sixth Doctor as part of the Puffin range. As we have not had a positive response about Colin on the faces strand here is what she says:
“I’ve always loved watching Colin Baker as The Doctor. When he’s on the screen, you can’t take your off eyes off of him — and no, I’m not just talking about his infamous wardrobe! Everything him about is larger than life: his personality, his ingenuity, his biting humour. He’s one of the darker of the Doctors, and yet through it all, that heroism and need to do what’s right never fails. That’s what makes him so fascinating to me. It’s an author’s dream to be able to write with a character like that.
“Something Borrowed” sees a wedding invitation and “the return of a formidable old foe whose genius matches the Doctor.”
The Guardian has an extract here. It appears to be unusual in that it is written from the first person (Peri).
7 June 2013 at 13:02 #11970Apologies for not joining in last night, a few things cropped up. Thanks for the responses.
Yes – courage in buckets indeed. Tennant and Smith had convivial dinners with Peter Davison who explained how their life was going to change (and he presumably passed on Troughtons advice to him that three years was about right). I don’t think anyone could prepare a woman for the reaction and the microscope of press fixation on her performance and life.
To be honest the Dan/Naomi exchange (his not open for comments, her right to reply shortly afterwards was) just screamed click-bait setup, and got the usual responses. It’s why I didn’t join in but thought I’d bring the issues here where you can at least get an intelligent debate. My concerns really are about some double standards in how female characters are allowed to be played – more later.
Thanks @shazzbot, @curvedspace and @scaryb and @cathannabel for other thoughts.
Ha! Well, I really liked your honesty on this…..I didn’t start out rooting for a female Doctor in particular.
Ha! I’m calling B*llsh*t on that one, as a fervent admirer of your posts since season 5. Your preference for “gender bending” ideas are clearly being hidden behind “a role model for girls” excuse! 😀
In all honesty I actually hoped you’d give some feedback on my post, because from memory you’ve raised, in the past, points about female characterisation in the Moff-verse you don’t agree with.
So – just to expand on my point. As a role model the Doctor isn’t a typical perfect specimen – he has many negative traits, which are made up for by the entirety of the performance itself. I won’t repeat them, as this post is going to be long enough as it is.
Televised media though is a peculiar thing because it is so widely accessed. If you take advertising for instance, it’s long been established that if you are going to see a useless feckless idiot, it’s going to be a white man. The reason for this is obvious. Men see it and think – “that bloke is a bit of an idiot”, not as a representation of all manhood. Such are the very real sensitivities about portrayal of women and race on screen, they play safe.
Television hasn’t got to that level yet, but there are trends. As @bluesqueakpip suggests there are those who leap upon any “non-conforming” ideal and make it an issue. You get articles like “Why Miranda is not guilty of misogyny“. (which raises an interesting question as to whether this article defends her because she is a writer/performer, so you can’t just assume it’s the men writing her a bit rubbish).
So the question is would writers try to play safe with the character because of perceived sensitivities, or would they take the characteristics of the Doctor “warts and all”? I’d hope the later. It would create a shitstorm on occasion, that may be discomforting to the production team and performer, but it would highlight some real double standards that are in play.
In all honesty – are there any scenes you remember from previous series, or lines, that would ring alarm bells if you heard or saw a woman perform them?
6 June 2013 at 12:30 #11930On a lighter note, reading a few of the many, many comments on the many, many, many internet articles on who should be the next Doctor put me in mind of this clip. The Second Doctor gets the chance to select his own appearance for regeneration.
“Too old, too fat, too thin, too young!”
6 June 2013 at 12:29 #11929Not particularly looking for a fight on this, but I’ve not said anything about the potential for a female Doctor. I’ve written before and said how I’d trial the idea in a kind of Mind-Robber/Dream Lord type Doctor “Lite” episode, where genders were swapped. At the end I’d have a scene, similar to the one in the Dream Lord episode where the Doctor sees his alter ego. A reminder that in the universe the Doctor inhabits, what can be remembered can become reality.
A great way to actually test audience reaction to the idea rather than just comment blogs which tend to be distorted by adult populations, with adult obsessions. If Matt had been in the role for something like this I would have suggested someone like Jaime Murray, who as a female HG Wells in Warehouse 13 gave a quirky turn with a mixture of comedy and pathos that would have worked I think.
Whenever we get to this point though of considering the next Doctor, the inevitable articles we get on both sides of the argument tend to turn me off the idea. Especially the notion it should be done because of “good” sexual politics.
I read the article by Noami Walderman on the Guardian which congratulated @danmartinuk for his “brilliant patronising, patriarchy-upholding blindness”. Had to laugh at that. The problem I have with realising the potential of a female Doctor is that most of the arguments are presented this way. It’s possible so it must happen. That’s fairness.
Therein lays a problem. In this idealised reality a woman finally gets to play one of the ultimate heroes for children (of all ages). Well that’s great, BUT as Dan pointed out there are aspects of the Doctors character that aren’t that laudable. Isn’t that why we like the character? Will the same people who demand a female Doctor allow her to occasionally be seen as vain? Or wrong? Will they object to her being petty? Occasionally vindictive (as with Solomon perhaps) Would the armchair commentators castigate her first angry scene as shrewishness and further evidence that male writers cannot write female characters?
Any fair handed commentator should see the dangers inherent for any writer or performer who went down this route. The same commentators who demand equality will be giving a blow by blow account of her faults. How she really isn’t a good role model after all.
Ultimately I think, for a female Doctor, she needs the room to realise her own version of the “beautiful idiot” that Idris described the Doctor as. I think that’s the ultimate test, but the result will never please those obsessed by the sexual politics debate.
3 June 2013 at 22:14 #11791I knew someone would have beaten me to it @craig 😀
Loved Joe in Misfits and This is England, but I really couldn’t see him as The Doctor (love the picture though).
3 June 2013 at 21:08 #11785I’m not sure about the contractual arrangements. Tennant said he signed a three year deal before “Rose” had been broadcast. It had a termination clause if the revival hadn’t taken off. I think it’s in the interview between him and Catharine Tate I posted on the Companions thread. I guess there could be multiple clauses for various scenarios.
I can’t recall if anyone has suggested “Twelth Night” for the Christmas episode? I’m wordering if Moff could resist after “Eleventh Hour”.
3 June 2013 at 20:31 #11779Our “voice of youth” Lindalee has spoken.
How she feels about Matt Smith leaving, what she’s enjoyed and her choice to be the next Doctor.
Colin Baker has a real aptitude for turning any issue about Who to himself. When Eccles announced he was leaving, Colin went on TV to “lambast” him (CE was nowhere near, and presumably just thought “who is this idiot” if he ever heard about it) about leaving the part so quickly. He declared that he “would still of been playing the part today, if it hadn’t been for those nasty BBC people” (I’m paraphrasing).
I actually finished the interview having warm feelings about Michael Grade.
2 June 2013 at 18:35 #11687In know what you mean. I kind of hoped that, at the end of the series and with all the Doctors featured in the final, the BBC would have taken the opportunity to start showing some old stuff, the documentaries that BBC America is showing, etc. as a way to build up interest.
It seems a bit weird to me.
Happy to help. Who needs Samaritans when you have the Doctor Who forum.
2 June 2013 at 18:06 #11682Ahhhh – those Australians know how to throw an early party. This is some footage from the event @bobbingbird was hoping to go to. It certainly looks the part and works as a nice little tribute to Matt Smith.
I would love to see an event like this.
2 June 2013 at 15:32 #11668Someone else likes Damian Molony as well. Digital Spy have a “who should play the 12th Doctor” article up and he’s in it. Didn’t realise he wanted the role:
“The Doctor is one of the most iconic parts for an actor to play, up there with Sherlock Holmes [and] James Bond, it is such an epic series. Following in the footsteps of so many great actors, it would be an honour to play The Doctor…”
The list actually features some interesting choices. Daniel Rigby and Harry Lloyd (Baines in Family of Blood) are interesting thoughts.
2 June 2013 at 14:09 #11660A bit more of a conventional choice perhaps, but fits in with the idea of someone with a lower profile, when I was watching the last series of “Being Human”, I thought Damien Molony (who played vampire Hal) would be an interesting choice. Very funny with his OCD tendencies but able to flip into darkness very quickly.
Someone compiled some of their favourite clips of him in thw video below. Doesn’t really do justice to the range he showed, but you might get the idea.
2 June 2013 at 13:10 #11647I’ve said before I’d love to see Chiwetel Ejiofor in the role. He was asked about it on the Andrew Marr show in 2011 if he would be tempted back from the US by the role and basically smiled and didn’t rule it out.
He’s great. I think if they wanted a more “still” Doctor after Matt, the kind of intensity he took as his Operative character in Serenity would be perfect, but he is really funny in some roles as well.
2 June 2013 at 01:20 #11566Tom Baker was my Doctor in this reality, but in the realm of imagination Alec Guiness scored big time. Growing up in the 70s we didn’t have the merchandising frenzy we have today. It was all a bit more sedate, until a little film called “Star Wars” came along. Those figures, released before the film had even been released were a sensation just by word of mouth. Of course I collected them, and played with them. Imaginative stories, I’m sure you would be in awe of.

Sir Alec made a fine Doctor in my UniverseThe figure of Ben Kenobi became my Doctor. Poking his light sabre out slightly made him look like he was holding a sonic. He navigated the Universe in his lashed up Tardis constructed of lego and micronaut parts. Aided by his kind and wise Time Lord assistant
LeiaRomana. Toys left, right and centre would be conscripted to my imaginary worlds. The Micronauts themselves (with a few modifications) became my Cybermen. It was a world of invention limited by my own imagination. While my fellows may have been doing something more mundane like pretending that Alec was some sort of Jedi Knight or something, I knew he was the Doctor.
Non canonical cybermenWhy am I writing this drivel? Well – a time came when I sold my toys for beer tokens. I knew they would be fine, they went to good homes. I changed, grew up and forgot Alec as the Doctor as we all do.
Speed forward 26 years. I’m sitting in Morrisons Café, Catcliffe, off Parkway (Sheffield), enjoying Scrambled egg on toast, a foamy coffee and talking convivial bullshit with a colleague. A habit we’ve picked up and taken to professional level. He’s just moved into a hovel of an office and wants a heater. Next door is Woolworths, which has just gone into administration. He wants to explore the possibilities of heating his new office space, and I’m in the mood to indulge him.
We enter, and it is true pandemonium – a scrum as people just dive in to rip the store apart. I can’t remember the last time I was in a Woolworth. Harassed assistants are being barracked by people who want a good buy. My friend disappears in the scrum of the electrical section. My youngest nieces birthday is coming up, so I held back staring at the various toys parading in the colour that can only be described as vibrant pink.
Walking along the line I came upon a Doctor Who rack. I was aware of Doctor Who toys. I kind of envied my successors that freedom of choice. My Denys Fisher K1 Robot was a bit battered and sad. I paused and mused on the ultimate question – what kind of kid would want destroyed Cassandra (an empty frame)?
Smiling I started to turn. And then stopped.
I was staring at a VOC robot. A Dumb. Next to him was a Super Voc. Next to him was Tom Baker (with a replaceable head!), Peter Davison, a Zygon, a Sea Devil! Magnus Greel AND MR SIN in a double pack!
I think I giggled.
My internal monologue went along these lines:
“Shit. Look at those! Aren’t those fine and dandy!”
“Yes – aren’t they glorious reconstructions. I hope the recipients of that purchase understand how powerful those stories were”.
“We could buy those”
“Of course we could. I have a couple of crisp twenties in my pocket. I could purchase all those toys at their remarkably lowered price of £1.99. “
“BUY THEM…you want to!”
“I think you underestimate me. I am a adult. This is marketing. I will not submit to these glorious creations. “
“I’d buy them. I’m your inner seven year old. I would have sold my left testicle to own those.”
“We were a clearer thinker – we’d sell somebody else’s testicle to own those.”
“So you’ll buy them”
“Of course”
I found myself at a till with a handful of toys babbling at an uninterested till girl about how my non existent son would just love these. I returned to home base and joyfully unwrapped them. It really made me feel young. My inner 7 year old cried, while nursing a bottle of alcohol. I really would have killed for those toys at that age. Why run away from it?
There is always a problem. A sting in the tale. In each of the packs was a part to construct another figure. A K-1 Robot. I was missing a part. A Figure was missing with that part.
F**king Colin Baker had spoiled my fun again!
I spent six months hunting that little fecker down! What a git. The times Ms Phaseshift sat in my car while I explored out of town “Toys R Us” actually seeking Colin Baker. I hated the git! I got the bugger in the end in an ASDA, ripped the packaging apart, cast the hateful form of the sixth Doctor aside and finished my K1 Robot.
What did I do with them? They patrol my book shelves of course. Don’t worry. I realise this was a sort of temporary insanity. I’d never make that mistake again. Just be careful around my Iain Banks section. A First Doctor and a Tenth Planet Cybermen guard them. If you stop at the Pratchett section, shucks – is that the Cybercontroller and a couple of Tomb Cybermen? Mind the fleet of classic Daleks there! If you topple that eighth Doctor, I may have to kill you.
I am a fanboy. And my inner seven year old has a sack full of other people’s testicles and grinning like an idiot. We are happy.
Be what you are – Do what you feel is right. Embrace your nerd.
This is really good advice.
2 June 2013 at 00:40 #11558You’re on form tonight! I need to do some thinking now about nominations!
2 June 2013 at 00:36 #11557Perhaps a new page for us to speculate on…”The next Doctor?”
This really demands to be done, don’t you think?
For now, and from me, he was the Doctor who brought the magic back to the show that I had not felt since my childhood experience of Hartnell in the 60s.
This is massively supportive for me. I have posted my eulogy to Tom Baker on the Faces thread. I’m pre-empting myself, but I have to confess that Smith has overtaken Tom in my eyes as the Doctor. He’s become the Doctor for me, and I think that is the biggest compliment I can pay him. I once had pity for the person who would replace David, ahem Who? Smith is really going to be hard to follow in my eyes.
1 June 2013 at 23:46 #11548I’m sad hearing this news. But that is good. Sadness at the end of a Doctor is a sign of true success. My gods, Matt Smith made the Doctor his role, on his own terms with an uncompromising turn, with an uncompromising showrunner. Bewilildering and enticing tales of a Time Lord.
What more can you ask for? Hope he has massive success in the future. He’s been brilliant.
31 May 2013 at 13:01 #11446He could certainly go into that territory at times.
Mostly though it was just the aching sense of self-satisfaction unrestrained that made him so unlikeable. Here is his introductory scene (prior to trying to kill Peri).
31 May 2013 at 12:11 #11443@danmartinuk s article for River Song day is up at the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/may/31/doctor-who-river-song-divide-fans
31 May 2013 at 11:19 #11442That is top quality footage of Baker as Bayban. Blakes 7 was a show which easily accomodated over-the-top scenery chewing. I actually like that episode “City at the Edge of the World” a lot, mainly because I liked Vila, and that was a strong episode for him. Vila and Avon were one of the best double acts of their type.
For reasons I may go into some time, the figure of the left actually haunted me for a while. A long complicated and bizarre story which will need me to explain why Alec Guiness may have been my Doctor for a while. One for some other time in the Memories thread.
31 May 2013 at 10:59 #11441Who do we think are the Doctor’s most rubbishest opponents?
In one way, The Master (although I love watching them).
Delgado era – the Doctor just has to wait until his latest alien allies turn on him, he swaps sides and they work together to defeat them.
Ainley era – The Doctor just has to wait for his latest really overcomplicated scheme to collapse under the weight of its own stupidity. Fun Fact: The Ainley Master had an Advanced Diploma in Crap Plans from the Wile E Coyote Academy.
Simm era – The Doctor just has to emote at him a lot for him to voluntarily commit suicide/run away into a timelock to escape him.Rubbish Monsters – The Candyman. Bertie Basset wannabe who wouldn’t last two minutes if you unleashed a classroom of sugar deprived seven year olds on him.
30 May 2013 at 17:23 #11374Yes, the scripts were really bad. The usually reliable Robert Holmes contributed some stinkers, but he’d been ill for a while (he died in 86). I think everyone was operating in the dark during this period. It felt like on one hand the actor wanted to do something, and the Producer had a different take on it. I don’t think any scriptwriter would have been successful in joining the two together.
These are just personal views. I hope (as @scaryb suggests) we get someone who will come in and defend him. I know the script for the Sixth Doctor fans pretty well, but I don’t buy it, even having sat through the run (and the spinoff audios) with someone who explained it to me. So I’ll leave it for someone who does!
I’m not a massive fan of Kate O’Mara myself, but I will be paying her a kind of compliment next month.
Peri – what can you say? At 15 years old I really did feel sorry for the actress. It just seemed so obvious I was supposed to find her attractive (look at her boobs!) that I automatically didn’t. They made her whine more than early Tegan, which was the wrong kind of achievement.
30 May 2013 at 12:38 #11363To go off on an immediate tangent, one of the early Confidential series showed clips of a brief interview with Christopher Eccleston on why he wanted to play the Doctor.
“I wanted to play Charming. People told me I couldn’t do it, and I wanted to prove them wrong”.
I nodded at that. Not that I don’t think Eccleston has never played charming before, or couldn’t, but that he clearly identified a necessary trait for the Doctor. Let’s face it; the character has an arrogant side. A know-it-all superiority at times. He can be a bit of an egoist. Charm and humour can be used to undercut that, and also give the Doctor self awareness that show he realises these traits are within him, and he deliberately “knee caps” them with people he knows. What kind of monster would he be without charm?
Welcome to Colin Baker. The charmless Doctor.
I was a bit bemused by the casting of him as the Doctor. It had only been a short while since he was playing Commander Maxell in Davison’s “Arc of Infinity” as an unlikeable Gallifreyan guard who threw the switch in an attempt to execute the Fifth Doctor. He really didn’t seem a great choice to me, but what did I know? So at the end of “Caves of Androzani” the Doctor regenerates. In an otherwise excellent show, his immediate words and cutting attitude towards Peri seemed a little, well – “off”. Regeneration, though, has always been a tricky thing, so I went with it. The end of that series saw his first adventure, “The Twin Dilemma”. It was mind-bogglingly awful. The Doctor trying to stangle Peri. A pair of young actors so cringeworthy they made Matthew Waterhouse (Adric) look like Sir John Gielgood. The Doctor picking a costume that self-respecting professional clowns would reject as “taking the piss”. A plot so laughable it defied belief. Just f**king awful. “Never mind”, I thought at the end of the show, “Difficult regeneration episode over. A break until the new series. Time to start afresh.”

GhastlySeries 22 came along. Oh Gods. “Attack of the Cybermen”. A story trying to resolve plot points from two Cybermen adventures that only fanboys such as myself even had a casual interest in. In which a Cyberman is killed by “a lucky shot” from a revolver. “Vengeance on Varos” had an entertaining turn by Nabil Shaban as Sil and some prescient points about reality TV that were ahead of its time, but sees the Doctor behaving like an intergalactic hooligan. “The Mark of the Rani” introduced The Rani (a fun enough turn in a campy way by Kate O’Mara). Just consider that the Time Lords had pursued the Doctor over time and space because he’d borrowed a TARDIS and interfered. Now we were to believe they would banish one of their own from Gallifrey with a TARDIS to continue her experiments on other species. Just crass. “The Two Doctors” does its best to piss on the characters of the Second Doctor and Jamie. “Timelash”?! Jesus wept. We ended on “Revelation of the Daleks”. Pantomime Davros and support cast. The best thing about it is the shot of a partly converted human encased in a transparent Dalek. For variety, add in Alexi Sayle’s DJ character and his really over the top death scene.
Throughout this we had poor Nicola Bryant as Peri, poured into ever tighter costumes, Her character was supposed to be a botany student, but they made her progressively dumber and dumber. I suppose it was all supposed to be “meant for the dads” but even my loathsome 15 year old self could dredge up enough empathy to feel sorry for her. Ultimately though – bestriding this carnival of horrors like a colossal ill-dressed arsehole stood Baker Mk II.
I wasn’t surprised by the announcement that the show would be put on hiatus for a while. I’d really lost patience. Something was fundamentally wrong with all this. I did consider if this was part of being a teenager. Most of my acquaintances who had watched the show had drifted away during the Davison era. Maybe I was the problem?
Spin forward and a new series was announced. The publicity machine kicked in. What delights had we in store, I wondered? Bonnie f**king Langford that’s who. For my generation she meant one thing. Violet Elizabeth in Just William. Thsqueaming and thsqueaming until she was sick.

Oh – the irony!And so “The Trial of a Time Lord” began. Four adventures (Mysterious Planet, Mindwarp, Terror of the Vervoids, The Ultimate Foe) interlinked throughout by scenes in which the Time Lords put the Doctor on trial yet again.
- Gasp! At the opening CGI scene of the TARDIS being snared by a space station.
- Weep! When you realise that was most of the budget for he series.
- Sob! With laughter as Peri is first thought dead, and then shown to be happily married. To Brian Blessed.
- Scream! As Bonnie Langford turns up as “Mel” and starts screaming herself.
- Laugh! At the scenes where Colin tries to be all serious.
In the final story the prosecutor, The Valeyard is revealed to be a dark future incarnation of the Doctor. The problem for me with this scenario is that Michael Jayston seemed actually preferable to me than Colin Baker!
If, as fans would have it, this series was a metaphor for the show being put on trial, then I think the verdict could only be a guilty one. In the dock, the BBC who really couldn’t be arsed to make a verdict on the future of the show one way or another. They preferred to let the show starve of resources and become the personal plaything of one producer who really had no idea where to go. Aided by a man who was spectacularly miscast and who didn’t really understand the appeal of the show. His desire to “return” to some notional version of Hartnell was nonsensical, and shows he had no idea of how the First Doctor was really played. These factors really conspired to create a toxin for the show much more powerful than the Spectrox Toxaemia that had heralded the reign of the Sixth Doctor.
All should have been found guilty – but only one paid the price. As the “Face of the Doctor”, Colin Baker was the first actor to be sacked from the role. His fans (and he has them) were upset to be sure, but for me I treated it with some relief. The problem was, John Nathan Turner was still there as Producer, and I couldn’t see things changing much.

Taking the MichaelI have gone back to rewatch the entire run with a true Colin devotee. He’s explained many things some of which seem feasible and some that don’t. The notion that he had a four year plan to turn this charmless Doctor into something more familiar is the one I have most difficulty with. Listening to his Who audio work, and having seem him interviewed and in other productions, I don’t actually think he would have been capable of such a transition.
I realise that I’ve written a lot about a Doctor and a period of the show I really couldn’t get along with. This is because simply putting a picture of the actor and putting “TOSSER” beneath it is bad form. For me, this is a dark period for the show and one that I can’t really defend. If you are to dip into old Who, please do not start with any of the serials above. It may put you off for life.
30 May 2013 at 12:15 #11360It’s nearly June, and in a case of life imitating art I’m shoving the Sixth Doctor into the end of the Fifth Doctor period. Your thoughts on this chap are welcome.

The AI Report on the end of the fifth Doctor and beginning of the sixth reveals:
The arrival of Colin Baker as Dr. Who rather late in the series produced a rather cool response from sample members. Less than half were impressed by his portrayal so far; however, one or two of those who had found his performance convincing expressed the view that Mr. Baker had potential to become an excellent Dr. Who because his face was ‘not associated with so many other roles and he seems less wishy-washy than others who have played the part’. Respondents who were dissatisfied with Colin Baker’s interpretation of Dr. Who (a quarter of the sample) expressed the reasons for their disapproval quite clearly. The new Doctor was felt to be so totally different in character from others who had gone before him that he seemed ‘unreal’. In the opinion of his critics, he lacked amiability and was not a very likeable character. In the words of two respondents: ‘I find him too aggressive and just not as pleasant as other Doctors’; ‘The new Doctor is too stern and doesn’t have enough humour’.
27 May 2013 at 14:05 #11133Just a quick note for any fans – “Horrible Histories” returns to CBBC today at 16:30!
If you have any thoughts on how you are going to fill your TV hours in between now and November why not tell us on our General TV thread? We may all need some recommendations as it’s going to be a looooonggg wait.
27 May 2013 at 13:54 #11132Announcement – The Doctor Who Forum Lost Property Department
Found down behind the cushions during Sofa Maintenance
1 x Rubber Duck wearing miniature Fez
1 x Quantas Club Lounge Entry Card (Expired)
3 x Avatars (Low Res)
1 x Gentleman style underpant (slightly soiled)
1 x empty bottle Montes Alpha MerlotIf you wish to claim any of the above on sentimental grounds, please contact us at the usual address.
Sundry comestibles including 4 Maltesers, a “wham” bar, a half eaten Tunnock’s Caramel Wafer and 27 Jammie Dodgers have been fed to our natural herd of Billy Goats.
The collection of loose coinage of various international currencies netted approx £1.37 GBP, and has been donated to “The Benevolent Care fund for the families of Slaughtered Trolls.”
26 May 2013 at 23:06 #11091Actually I just noticed “On the Sofa” that when I post, I get taken to the first page (not sure if this is the problem others are seeing). I’m using FireFox latest upgrade on Windows.
If it is a size issue on the threads, maybe we should just open a replacement, close the other one and link it to the new?
26 May 2013 at 23:02 #11090No argument from me that Midnight was good. I put it in my top 20 🙂 . No, that scene was used in particular regarding more subtle ways of humour.
Actually, although his post was a bit confusing, the line about Elizabeth I was 10s (from End of Time pt 1) which he held up as an example of comedy that really made you “have to work it out”. No comment.
But we are falling into the trap of discussing a pretty trollish series of posts. Call it a night on this one, eh?
26 May 2013 at 21:34 #11084Yeah – there seems to be a strange belief in some quarters that flipping a video clip makes you immune from copyright issues. An odd one that. 🙂
& @scaryb
And thanks. I was bowled over by that scene when I saw it at Christmas and still think it’s a work of genius. Great dialogue, astonishing performances, lovely close camera work to capture those expressions, and beautiful use of music building in the background.
I actually hope “Snowmen” wins the Hugo, but voting may be split as Moffat is up against himself with two other episodes nominated. I think Fringe may get it as it’s now a “complete” work.
26 May 2013 at 18:53 #11056@EcclestonTennant
I promised you a response.
I think comedy is a pretty weak subject to pick. Even given it’s a big subjective issue in itself. But for my money series 5-7 own that territory.
Russell can do comedy very well, from broad innuendo and pratfall comedy to one liners. The problem for me is that his belief that children loving a good fart joke, or a wheely-bin burping wouldn’t take the audience out of what they were watching.
I’d say Steven is a better comedy writer and avoids the later while giving good broad brush approach to the others. The broadest pratfall humour he has is with Strax, the Sontaran.
What Steven has though is the ability to write extended dialogue with very comedic elements that rely on the audience buying into his reality and following an entire conversation.
As an example, I’ve met people who don’t get the “words” joke Clara makes in this scene. It’s a battle of wits between two characters and she goes from a weak position to a strong one, and in two words, changes the dynamic. Dumb it isn’t. If you can offer up anything as sophisticated from a Russell episode then I’d be interested in watching it.
26 May 2013 at 12:32 #10998Does anybody else think that doctor who was dumbed down after Russel T Davis and the old producers left
No, personally I don’t. That’s a brief response to a brief question.
I’m not being unfriendly here, but just so you are aware we’ve had a few people over the last couple of weeks come in to make sweeping statements, with the occasional straw man argument bolted on for good measure. They have been ignored, as it’s a fairly obvious ploy by some to try to put the onus on others to do the work for them and generate a time consuming argument with little effort. A lot of us have been there, done that and got bored with it.
If you think it has been dumbed down, please feel free to expand on your point in as long a post as you see fit, maybe with comparisons, etc, between the two regimes. I’d be interested to read your take and would certainly respond.
Oh – a quick point on the 50th convention. I believe @danmartinuk who writes reviews for the Guardian will be there, and a couple of others may hope to go. Sadly – I am going to miss that one. 🙁
I’m off for an hour but will be back later.
25 May 2013 at 21:25 #10954The last I heard on this was about 2003, so no idea if the position has changed since (the show is a bit bigger now).
Back then, it basically depended on your intention. If you intended to display the item to add colour and make the convention a “vibrant space” etc, you would be fine. If you intended to use it for financial gain (i.e. Pictures with the TARDIS at £10 a pop or whatever) you could be in trouble.
No idea which convention you are talking about, but it can be useful to speak to the organisers who may already have contacted the BBC about logo use, etc (they would have to conform as they are likely to be making a profit) to see if they have received any advice or if any “use of trademark” restrictions have been placed.
Hope that is of some help.
25 May 2013 at 15:40 #10911I think they are both fan creations to be honest, and not from the show itself. The first one I recognised from Deviant art:
http://stevenlawson.deviantart.com/art/Time-Lord-Seal-tattoo-88083418
25 May 2013 at 15:13 #10903If we go with it I will of course credit you.
Hah! I’d rather you didn’t if you don’t mind. I wouldn’t want to suggest to anyone that I am selling that period! I will ask a favour though. If you get the opportunity in July, we have a “Faces of the Doctor” thread we’re trying to put down some thoughts on the various incarnations. It would be interesting to read something from someone who grew up with Sylvester. I ended his run being much more positive about him than when he started.
On that note, we were talking about Davison this month. He quite surprised me because Tom was “a curly haired god” to my small self, but I enjoyed the Davison performance. If you want a couple of story suggestions other than Earthshock to talk about, the episode of Kinda where Tegan is trapped in “the Dark places of the inside” by the Mara is a good one. I think it’s still eerily effective. You can make a few jokes about the godawful snake as well. I always liked Enlightenment as well as it closes another definite arc in the series. You had the Guardians, Eternals that have been mentioned in passing in the new series, an unreliable companion for the first time.
With Eight – it’s just the movie. One of those things really. Exactly the right Doctor in the wrong production. Use it as a springboard to mention his audio stuff with Big Finish and broadcast on 4xtra. Even if they are not considered TV canon, they are entertaining stories about the Doctor.
25 May 2013 at 14:31 #10892Hi Dan – bit of a conundrum that one. I think you came below the line to present this as a personal voyage rather than an authoritative list, and that probably is the way to continue. The firm fan favourites just result in the usual tired clichés perhaps.
I’ll have a think myself, because I’m mulling over some personal favourites for an entry on a blog by @htpbdet, but can I suggest something for Baker Mk 2?
I watched his entire run (pity me) with someone for who THE Colin Baker was THE Doctor as he tried to introduce me to the delights of his run (he failed). Just do one column on “The Ultimate Foe” and talk generally about the Trial of a Timelord series. Such an intertwined series / never tried before / a flawed experiment / the potential of the Valyard, etc, and leave it at that. Sixth devotees will love it, and you get away viewing the shortest story. 😉
I also meant to ask – will this series of “greatest episodes” continue into 2005 and beyond, or are you stopping with Eight?
25 May 2013 at 11:21 #10858I’m sure at some point the Master is going to escape that timelock, and it does occur that a marvellous arc could be developed in which he carried a few hundred non-Timelord Gallifreyans with him, as their “saviour”, to disappear to parts and times unknown. Not full Time Lords they would have every reason to hate and fear The Doctor, keeping him alienated. They could rely on lesser means of timelord technology like time rings to create havoc.
25 May 2013 at 10:45 #10854It’s funny you should mention the bit about the repairmen. I’ve been watching some of the BG episodes and today I’m watching “The Deadly Assassin”.
I’ve just watched the bit with Castellan Spandrell reviewing the Doctors records with Engin, and his line “I’m surprised to see you here. Doesn’t your work usually concern the more … plebian classes” leaps out at you. Looking at the repairmen I think you have exhibits A and B in what Engin would consider “Plebs”.
24 May 2013 at 23:20 #10795Ahhhh…. loooong afternoon. I could do with a drink. A virtual bar? How convenient!
In Fact…

“I want the finest wines available to humanity. I want them here, and I want them now…. with a bit of downloaded humanity to nibble on as bar snacks”.
PS – Great post @pedant and a good idea with this space @craig. May be good to vent every now and again.
24 May 2013 at 15:22 #10704@stratcat01 – Thanks for the reply. I have to go out a bit later so when I saw your name I really couldn’t resist. A pleasure to have you join our other US correspondents!
24 May 2013 at 14:42 #10701Hmmm… I noticed on the Recently Active side bar @stratcat01 hasn’t commented as yet, and this is a bit cheeky but (Wave)
No pressure if you prefer to lurk, but I once welcomed you on the Guardian blog, I think, with a link to “I am the Doctor” at the Proms. Here we are, on “Closing Time”.
I couldn’t miss the opportunity to welcome you to two blogs 😀
24 May 2013 at 14:34 #10700There are a couple of blog posts we are using for that started by @htpbdet.
I’ve just added mine to this one which deals with the new series.
http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/sidrat/top-twenty-post-gap-adventures/
For the old series
http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/sidrat/what-are-your-50-favourite-doctor-who-stories-ever/
23 May 2013 at 13:48 #10524Yeeeahhhh…….. Sorry about that! As well as feeling tired I must have had a fever to suggest that. Far too much work as well for one thread. I’ve had another idea for a kind of “Notes and Queries” Blogpost which I’ll think about.
23 May 2013 at 13:46 #10522Just munching a quick sandwich.
@danmartinuk has his next “Before Gap” series review up. It’s “Genesis of the Daleks”, and can be found at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/may/23/genesis-of-the-daleks-doctor-who
22 May 2013 at 23:28 #10435I must be tired. In the space it took me to type that with errors, you’d all posted new messages. Off to bed!
22 May 2013 at 23:26 #10434I tend to agree with @jimthefish that separate threads is a route Iwouldn’t want to go down. It has occured to me though that a single thread for questions (even if on old Who) that crop up in episode conversations (Susan and the Tardis, etc) would be a better way of handling them. Then we have a thread that we can easily reference the answer if the question crops up further down the line (if you remember a question being discussed it’s much easier to look it up on one thread than try to remember which page on which episode it cropped up on before).
In a massive irony, considering how much I hate the format, nesting would suit that one thread. Pose a question and the linear answers below answer it before the next question. I really do hate that format, but it’s an idea.
I saw your post on the sofa about difficulties on the music thread. Long ago I turned off the autoplay adobe function in firefox, I just get blank windows with activate adobe message which just activates the video window I’ve selected. Problem is – it’s so long ago, I’ve forgotten how I did it! 😀 Maybe someone else can advise. It certainly helps with resources on older equipment. If I can work out how I did it in the meantime, I’ll let you know.
22 May 2013 at 23:14 #10430Yes – best wishes to @htpbdet and thanks to mini-HTPBDET(S) for the post.
It must be hugely frustrating for him not to have seen the episode yet, but we’ll be around for his thoughts. I’m saving his latest post until I’m a bit more alert.
22 May 2013 at 17:51 #10370Just to echoes @jimthefish in his welcome to new members.
@budinacup – to be honest, having looked at the BBC YouTube sites and the show’s home pages, I don’t think there are any official trailers to be seen yet.
If you type “Doctor Who 50th Anniversary Trailer” into YouTube you’ll see loads, but they are all fan made (some of the best ones are connected in our fan creativity thread. Some have been taken down before as the BBC is sensitive about the use of its logo, more than the clips they use which are good for creating interest in the show.
We don’t generally count “next times”, “trailers” or “prequels” as spoilers, but usually post them in the news thread or discuss them obliquely.
Hope that helps.
22 May 2013 at 17:33 #10364General question
Going back to the question about the 50th thread posed on the last page.
I think from my point of view:
There has been a lot of interesting discussion on the 50th in the Name of the Doctor thread.
I think our expectations of what the 50th is, and may be, may have significantly changed since Name was broadcast, when compared to our original speculation thread.
I think going with a fresh start is the best idea. More so that people can consolidate where they stand on the issues at hand, and maybe talk about how they see a story developing and the type of story that is possible.
Don’t know if anyone else has an opinion on this?
Also – I’m not sure how this would work, but I thought a thread that deals with outstanding questions or questions on Who full stop. Anyone who has a question can post it, and if anyone has a theory to explain “Why the Tardis blew up” or “Why Susan claimed she named the TARDIS”, we can have a lively discussion. As I said no idea if it would work but might be worth thinking about.
21 May 2013 at 16:44 #10221@lula – On the subject of Susan and the TARDIS, the Doctor never divulges where he and Susan are from to Ian and Barbara, and the reason he kidnaps them is he doesn’t trust them. You could easily say Susan told them enough to understand what a TARDIS is, without divulging any more information than needed. As a teenager, she naturally made it all about her.
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