On the Sofa (part 2)

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    Craig @craig

    A slightly new sofa, until I work out what was happening to the links to the old one.

    You can still visit the old sofa here:


    ScaryB @scaryb

    Ooh, nice new sofa 🙂 Tardis blue, with a built in fish tank!

    Thanks @craig (Hope we haven’t broken the other one!)

    ScaryB @scaryb

    @Shazzbot – my post about the Sky/Dr scene in Midnight wasn’t directed at anyone in particular, just that @phaseshift‘s great post of the Clara/Vastra/Jenny scene put me in mind of it (and it’s one of my fav stories).

    Speaking of fav stories, anyone got any suggestions how to limit your list to 20??? 😉


    Ooooh. A Chesterfield!

    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Announcement – The Doctor Who Forum Lost Property Department

    Found down behind the cushions during Sofa Maintenance

    1 x Rubber Duck wearing miniature Fez
    1 x Quantas Club Lounge Entry Card (Expired)
    3 x Avatars (Low Res)
    1 x Gentleman style underpant (slightly soiled)
    1 x empty bottle Montes Alpha Merlot

    If you wish to claim any of the above on sentimental grounds, please contact us at the usual address.

    Sundry comestibles including 4 Maltesers, a “wham” bar, a half eaten Tunnock’s Caramel Wafer and 27 Jammie Dodgers have been fed to our natural herd of Billy Goats.

    The collection of loose coinage of various international currencies netted approx £1.37 GBP, and has been donated to “The Benevolent Care fund for the families of Slaughtered Trolls.”

    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Just a quick note for any fans – “Horrible Histories” returns to CBBC today at 16:30!

    If you have any thoughts on how you are going to fill your TV hours in between now and November why not tell us on our General TV thread? We may all need some recommendations as it’s going to be a looooonggg wait.

    Anonymous @

    @phaseshift – only one empty wine bottle?  Have you checked the recycle bin?  🙂

    Anonymous @

    I’m doing this math project which requires me to ask people questions for a poll of sorts. So can you answer this question?Which genre of TV or Web-series do you watch?Reality, Drama, Action, Mystery, Sci-fi, Comedy or Cartoons (Animes included)

    I thank you for your wibbly wobbly timey wimy…stuff.

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    mg  The TV Movie is 17 today! Is the ‘sequel’ due in 6 months?

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Happy Birthday, Kylie!

    Anonymous @

    Left to right:  @wolfweed, @phaseshift, @chickenelly, @pedant, and @craig all wonder which Kylie to put forward in TCGT (The Commonwealth’s Got Talent).

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    kyl lil Nice Crazy Caption, @Shazzbot!



    I don’t think they got my best side….

    Whisht @whisht

    Hi @denvaldron
    Just in case you missed it, some Cushing love on the Guardian (because of the DVD and Blue Ray reissues of the films)


    Just ignore the commenters!

    Anonymous @

    @pedant“I don’t think they got my best side….”

    It took me two hours to get your comment.  😆

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    x  Always signpost your special spots…

    thommck @thommck

    Just wanted a quick bounce on the new sofa.

    I just finished reading “Shada” the ‘sort-of-lost’ Doctor Who story by Douglas Adams (finished off by Gareth Roberts). I haven’t read any Who fiction before but needed something to fill gap and this seemed like a good choice as I’m lead to believe it is canon. I’d recommend it to you all. It’s set in the Tom Baker years and has a good bit of Timelord/Gallifrey history in it.

    I also signed up for a months trial of NetFlix to see the new Arrested Development episodes and was pleasantly surprised to see it has a number of Classic Who episodes, Cartoons, all the Ecclestone & Tennant eps and the McGann TV movie! Not bad to keep me entertained for free for a month 🙂 I just re-watched ‘Rose’ and it was a rather odd experience considering what has changed in the show over the last 8 years

    Anonymous @

    @thommck – perhaps you could give some of your thoughts over on the ‘Faces of the Doctor’ thread?  I agree, watching ‘Rose’ now, with all the intervening history and arcs and new Doctors and character losses / development etc, is a weird experience.  For me, it feels like how River describes 10 in Silence in the Library:  ‘It’s like seeing an old photograph of a friend, from before when you knew them, and they look … unformed somehow.’ [paraphrased]

    If you have thoughts on changes in the Doctor – perhaps after getting your Netflix Doctor Who re-watches under your belt! – you should post something describing your take on those changes.

    Timeloop @timeloop

    Can someone here explain in simple words what canon stands for?  I found several things but nothing seems to fit really. I can either mean rule or a lot of stuff related to church such as canon law or canon (list of saints?!?) as well as a special kind of song canon (several people singing the same lines but not in sync-someone is always starting while another one is ending and another one is in the middle of the song…) makes me think of cannons as well ^^” and I am honestly confused.
    What is a canon and what does it not have to to do with DW?

    Thanks in advance!

    [P.S.: Oh and honestly the first thing that came to my mind were cameras. A name of a camera manufacturer…. Canon – which is only a name with no meaning to my knowledge. But I am eager o learn.]

    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    Hello Sweeties,

    Teaser before bedtime. Picking on the hivemind again for  something I’m thinking of pitching and writing. Who do we think are the Doctor’s most rubbishest opponents? Those most easily defeated? Aside from the Daleks (diminishing returns), the Cybermen (gold/bad scripts) and Melody (being in love with him) …from both old and new, who does everyone think, “oh just go home love and let’s not even bother with this 4 parter?”

    Jammie Dodgers all round for the most fun suggestions. And we’re celebrating #RiverSongDay over on the Gruan tomorrow (today)







    MTGradwell @mtgradwell

    @timeloop: Canon = officially accepted. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction) for details.

    Anonymous @

    @danmartinuk – first of all, you post at 01:06 and describe it as ‘before bedtime’?  Dontcha know tomorrow is a work day??!  We Whovians do have actual lives, thank-you-very-much.   🙂   (erm, slightly diluted by my replying to you even later than your post.   {sigh} )

    You have a major flaw in your thesis, if you are including Melody Pond i.e. River Song as a ‘rubbish opponent’.  Shame on you, shame.  She is the one who pointed out that the signature Tardis sound of ‘eeeh-hhhaaa-eewww-hhhha’ was simply due to Him Indoors leaving the brakes on all the time.  😀

    Speaking of the delectable Alex Kingston (and I post as a solidly hetero female!) I’m glad the Guardian is recognising River Song Day.  It’s the least you could do.  😆

    btw, Autons, anyone?

    WhoHar @whohar


    First of all, I’d love to see a 4 parter in the next season.

    The Slitheen were pretty bad and the maggots in the Green Death were pretty feeble. The ‘minotaur’ in Nimon. The Abzorbaloff, ’nuff said.

    Anonymous @

    @whohar – Of course, the Abzorbaloff!  The most rubbish of them all.  @danmartinuk, take note.  😀

    MTGradwell @mtgradwell

    @danmartinuk I don’t know about being easily defeated, because having seen a trailer I couldn’t be bothered to watch the actual episode, but in terms of naff ideas for DW opponents I think the adipose have to be a leading contender; they look like cuddly marshmallows. And in a similar vein from Classic Who there’s Bertie Bassett – sorry, I mean the Kandy Man. I did watch that adventure, unfortunately.

    Anonymous @

    @mtgradwell – but that episode wasn’t about the Adipose being an ‘opponent’, it was instead the ‘Nanny’ who was supposed to be the monster/opponent.  And she was Quite Interesting as an opponent/monster, in that she was supremely sure of her correctness and equally doomed to die as a result of that.

    Drat, you’re right, the Nanny was actually pretty rubbish.  But at least it brought the Doctor and Donna together again.  They were a magic duo, those two.  {sigh}

    WhoHar @whohar


    We Whovians do have actual lives, thank-you-very-much


    WhoHar @whohar


    Adolf in Let’s Kill Hitler.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave



    WhoHar @whohar


    Any suggestions from the realm of Doc’s 1 or 2?

    I’m only seen a few episodes, so not best placed to comment on them. The Krotons come to mind as looking a bit daft but I don’t know if they were easily defeatable or not.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Funnily enough, two of the most rubbish monsters come from two of my all-time favourite Hartnell episodes.

    In the absolutely brilliant “Dalek Invasion of Earth”, that saw the heart-rending exit of Susan, there is this thing called a Slyther. Well, anyone who has seen that episode will know what I am talking about! Even the impressionable 12-year old that I was when I watched it could tell that this giant fungus that was very unsteady on its feet and sounded like it was suffering from a bad case of croup was, well, embarrassing!

    The other was from another favourite episode, “The Chase”, that saw the departure of Ian and Barbara back to 1960s London. It was the robot version of the Doctor created by the Daleks. Unlike the tesalector version of 11 (that fooled most of us), this poor duplicate unfortunately looked nothing like William Hartnell! Come to think of it, even the Daleks were pretty rubbish in that story. But to be fair, it was, for the most part, played for laughs.

    Ah, but somehow, in spite of those two rubbish monsters, those two episodes of Doctor Who will remain fondly in my memories forever. Why? Because the show was always more than the sum of its rubbish monsters. And that is why I am still here, enthusing over the show.


    curvedspace @curvedspace

    @timeloop Doctor Who has no canon. RTD and SM agree on this. All stories are Doctor Who stories. (That last sentence is my opinion, heavily informed by the dude at the TARDIS Eruditorium site, not RTD or SM. Wanted to make that clear.)

    ScaryB @scaryb


    Rubbishest monsters – good idea – are you going to do a top monsters as well btw?

    Agree with several above re Abzorbaloff, but the little Adipose were cute! Problem with naming and shaming DW monsters is that although the costumes/models were sometimes, objectively speaking, awful (giant clams anyone?), often the idea behind them was scary enough to transcend their appearance eg someone is bound to mention the Zarbi and the Sensorites, both of which had me behind the sofa and thinking about them for months after.  Seen in hi def production pics you can see the joins (and often the strings!) but seen through fingers over 6yo eyes on a 60s TV screen they were terrifying! (Much the same point made by @blenkinsopthebrave above)

    Speaking of should be crap but are actually very scary – Troughton and Pertwee Who got an amazing amount of mileage out of foam creeping up a pipe! The seaweed monster in Fury from the Deep for example, was terrifying. (And it had Oak and Quill as backup!

    I found the Mara really creepy – until the reveal of what it actually looked like blew any possibility of suspension of disbelief completely out the window. “OK everyone, you must hold these mirrors and make sure the puppet doesn’t escape” – nice idea, but there are gaps everywhere in the circle!

    Sorry – back to rubbish monsters – Well, as @whohar mentioned the maggots in Green Death look pretty feeble in daylight and the animation is dire, but again the green slime slapping up a pipe and the IDEA of giant maggots worked for me. And then there’s that cliffhanger, with Jo 😉

    For truly awful I’d have to nominate either the War Machines (Hartnell) – again, BIG mistake to film in daylight, and for a superbrain WOTAN seemed pretty feeble. The War Machines themselves looked like cardboard boxes playing at being daleks. On the other hand it was the story that introduced Ben and Polly so it’s hard to hate it.

    My top nomination would be the Dominators – you just can’t take them seriously, what with the shoulder pads and the squabbling; and especially the Quarks, who looked like they’d fall over if you blew on them too hard! The kind of look that a 3 year old would be embarrassed by as a fancy dress costume! And about as effective.

    ScaryB @scaryb

    @danmartinuk #RiverSongDay on the Graun – yay!  Better get the armour plating ready tho – that’ll bring out more trolls than a Fellowship of Hobbits on a quest!

    ScaryB @scaryb

    @timeloop @curvedspace

    Re canon. haha – Who fans even argue over the canonicity of the canonicity of its canon.

    For me, and this is just a personal view, the following were established in An Unearthly Child –

    1 The Doctor is called the Doctor ( 😉 )

    2 He’s not from earth

    3 He’s a time & space traveller

    4 He’s got a Tardis (even in the Pertwee years, when he was grounded, the Tardis was still a story-driver)

    Now obviously whoever’s currently making the show has the final say on how/what they want to write and they could throw all that out the window if they want – in  a show about a timetravelling alien with access to the massive tech that’s the Tardis it’s remarkably easy to reinvent anything and everything – but those 4 things encapsulate the magic of Dr Who for me.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    We Whovians do have actual lives, thank-you-very-much


    @whohar – for those over the age of 18, a quick test is: in which life do I have to pay the rent/gas bill/mortgage?

    The other one is the real one. 🙂

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

     I think the adipose have to be a leading contender; they look like cuddly marshmallows. 

    @mtgradwell – the adipose were supposed to look like cuddly marshmallows. They’re baby adipose; looking cute and cuddly is a baby’s main defence mechanism.

    They were a counterpoint to the Doctor and Donna’s first meeting – where he killed off all the baby Racnoss. The evil Nanny probably would have been more suited to the Sarah Jane Adventures – I remember thinking at the time that she’d wandered in after being made redundant from the alien fizzy drinks factory – but she was in Who’s long line of managerial/corporate-villains.


    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    ‘Canon’ in fan slang does derive from ‘Canon Law’. It is all material accepted as ‘official’; for example, in the universe of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, ‘canon’ is the TV episodes and those comic books later approved by Joss Whedon, Buffy’s creator. Generally, if a writer on a show deviates from (usually) previously broadcast ‘canon’, they’d better have a damn good explanation handy for the fans.

    To use a Buffy example, in Season Five, Buffy suddenly acquired a never-before-mentioned sister; an event that broke the show’s previous ‘canon’. It turned out that Joss Whedon did have the said damn good explanation. 🙂

    Some Whovians take this, and argue that the television episodes of Doctor Who are ‘canon’. Future Who writers should base their continuity on the broadcast TV episodes.  If no Daleks escaped from the battle of Exxilon in the original story, you can’t later introduce Dalek survivors of Exxilon.

    This is despite the fact that both Post Gap showrunners have explicitly said ‘there is no canon’. Who is a show about time-travel, and one of its rules is that The Doctor can change time. There is NO fixed version of past events, even if we did see it happen on the telly. There never was; even the Pre Gap writers changed stuff.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @danmartinuk – my list of the truly awful monsters:

    The Loch Ness Monster (Skarasen). Mainly a special effects failure – but even as a kid, I was ‘is that a rubber turtle, or a toy dinosaur?’ It was rubbish! That monster completely destroyed any sense of drama the second it appeared.

    Shockeye from The Two Doctors. Both Doctors must have been suffering brain damage from the Androgum transfusion to let that particular adventure go on as long as it did. And the giant red eyebrows really deserved a series of their own…

    Ogrons – they were just plain dull.

    From the Post Gap Series

    The Scribble Monsters in Fear Her. The idea of being trapped in a painting has been done so much better (in the Five Doctors – only there it was being trapped as a wall sculpture for eternity).

    Soloman’s robots in Dinosaurs on a spaceship. One of those ideas that must have looked good on the page, probably looked fine on the set, and very possibly sounded okay in the recording suite. It was just that – when you put it all together – these were the least scary killer robots Who had ever invented. Even when they were firing at the cast, the only fear I felt was that they might irritate me to death.

    Anonymous @

    @timeloop @bluesqueakpip — there is no canon, true enough, as both RTD and The Moff have said. And even if there was, the Moff has definitely killed it off now…

    @danmartinuk — worst monsters, good idea. For me the ‘worst’ ones are the ones that are in stories that would otherwise be stonking classics — the clams in Genesis of the Daleks, the Giant Rat in Talons. They have an effect of distracting from the narrative. I still don’t know why no one has done a Talons special edition with a decent CGI rat in it.

    But worst one of all time. Possibly the Myrka surely. I’ve always thought that Drashigs were a bit rubbish too. I never could understand why they were one of the Third Doctor’s ‘scariest’ memories. But I’d go for the Raston Warrior Robot. The most perfect killing machine ever devised — but unfortunately looks like a mincing performance artist at the Brighton Fringe. Kills most of its prey by making them laugh themselves to death…

    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord


    Who do we think are the Doctor’s most rubbishest opponents?

    In one way, The Master (although I love watching them).

    Delgado era – the Doctor just has to wait until his latest alien allies turn on him, he swaps sides and they work together to defeat them.
    Ainley era – The Doctor just has to wait for his latest really overcomplicated scheme to collapse under the weight of its own stupidity. Fun Fact: The Ainley Master had an Advanced Diploma in Crap Plans from the Wile E Coyote Academy.
    Simm era – The Doctor just has to emote at him a lot for him to voluntarily commit suicide/run away into a timelock to escape him.

    Rubbish Monsters – The Candyman. Bertie Basset wannabe who wouldn’t last two minutes if you unleashed a classroom of sugar deprived seven year olds on him.

    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord
    Craig @craig

    @ Everyone After @phaseshift ‘s fantastic write up about Colin Baker, I received @htpbdet ‘s latest blog post today, which is also about Baker. You can read it here:


    In addition, he has still not seen the final episode but hopes to this weekend, and thinks he will be back with us, hopefully, next week, which is great news. 😀

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @danmartinuk – Rubbishy opponents: The Vardans (kitchen tin foil) & the Plasmatons (giant grey turds).

    TheSenileTARDIS @theseniletardis

    Hi… I’m TheSenileTARDIS. I’m new here. So… hi?

    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    Waves at @theseniletardis welcome to you! And to all the other new folks.

    Wow @craig – you are the Web-Master of an expanding universe.

    Thanks for the heads-up on @danmartinuk ‘s blog post on River Song over on The Graun @phaseshift – I’ve nipped over there to post something. Must see what the BBC site is doing to celebrate the glorious curly-haired one today.



    Whisht @whisht

    ah, thanks @craig for the update on @htpbdet

    Jeezus, that means that he won’t have read any of the comments on the thread for TNotD (and probably elsewhere), so when his health does allow him back, can we treat him as a slightly-time-travelling companion?

    He’ll have missed loads of conversations and thoughts, so lets bring him up to speed gently, as he brings us up to speed on the context, thoughtfully.

    Whisht @whisht

    Hi @theseniletardis – welcome!

    best get stuck in. We’re friendly. Any spoilers on the spoilers thread. theories on the 50th thread.
    Memories of past Drs on the past Drs thread….. Music on the erm…

    hmm….. I’m not good with words and fear I’ve done the here’s-how-to-suck-eggs thing so I’ll shut up!

    Looking forward to hearing your thoughts wherever you post them!!


    Craig @craig

    @whisht When I was in conversation with him I offered to raise a little fund for DVDs and reading material but he said that had already been taken care of. At the time I didn’t think that might mean us! We’ll keep him busy for days.

    ScaryB @scaryb

    LOL @theseniletardis – great name, great avatar

    @craig Good to hear HTPBDET’s on the mend – He sure is going to be busy catching up! Have loved his blog posts on the various Drs.

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