Dr Who News (5)

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    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    This is the News thread for official news, which is usually text / images posted on the BBC’s site. If you do come across a spoiler somewhere else and want to post it, we have a Spoilers thread.

    Please note that The Radio Times is growing increasingly spoilerish with their publication of episode plot details in advance of anything the BBC has officially released, so please think twice before you post in ‘News’ rather than ‘Spoilers’ something from the Radio Times.

    Please see our Etiquette page for further information about how this site views spoilers.

    (This is a continuation of the Doctor Who News (4) thread which was nearing its posting limit.)

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish Thanks for the new page. It is true that the old one was getting rather full, and at the rate that news stories about the next RTD incarnation are emerging, this page will fill up quickly, I suspect. Indeed, I have been reading so much about it in the last couple of days (but not from the BBC, so not for this page) I am actually feeling a bit sorry for Chibnall and Jodie, whose final story seems to be completely overshadowed by all the announcements about RTD’s return.

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord


    I suspect you’re right — although it’s hardly RTD’s fault and is largely down to the public filming. But I think it’s almost certainly true that a lot of people will be watching Jodie’s last episode just waiting for Tennant to show up.

    Having said that, even at this early stage, RTD has already provided some juicy material for bonkerising, so I think a visit to Spoilers might be in order….

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Ummm. Yasmin Finney as Rose. I’m rather conflicted about that, for two reasons. One, obviously, is that Yasmin Finney looks nothing like Billie Piper, and since Rose is not a Timelord, how could that happen? Okay, she did look into the Tardis core, and I guess RTD will find a way to make her change of appearance work (regeneration?). But it better be good.

    The other is that Billie Piper as Rose (or the Interface) was one of those fortunate actors who the camera loves, as they say. Just leaning against a wall in the background, she drew your attention like a magnet. I’d be reluctant to see her legacy impaired by a less than stellar performance. I haven’t seen Yasmin Finney in anything, I hope her acting is as good as her looks. But she better be good.

    I suppose one hopeful factor is that RTD wrote Rose before, so he should have the ability to write Rose 2 well – and should be motivated not to sabotage all his earlier work. So Yasmin should have, err, rather better material to work with than Jodie did.   I live in hope    🙂

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    RTD has done this before – rumours abounded that the Rani was coming back, but it turned out to be a another character called Rani. Unless Rose acquired the ability to regenerate when she became Bad Wolf, I’d guess this is the same thing. Yasmin Finney is playing someone called Rose. Not the Billie Piper character.

    Given that Rose Tyler is presumed dead, I suppose there might be some kind of ‘named after’ connection.

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord


    What @bluesqueakpip said. I believe the prevalent theory at the moment is that this new Rose is new character and not some new version of the original Rose (there is a more specific theory but I think I’ll save that for the Spoilers section). As to Yasmin Finney’s credentials, they look pretty solid. I’ve only checked out a couple of episodes of Heartstopper and she strikes me as pretty good in it. And let’s not forget just what the general reaction to Piper’s casting was back in the day and just how comprehensively she proved the naysayers wrong.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @jimthefish   Yes I recall how how well Billie Piper did, against initial prognostications, that’s why I’d hate to see her performance retrospectively clouded by a less-than-stellar ‘Rose 2’ (if Rose 2 is supposed to be the ‘same’ character, which I note she may not be).     (Understand, I have absolutely no knowledge of Yasmin Finney, I hope she does really well).

    I will hie me off to ‘Spoilers’ at this point.


    winston @winston

    So much cool news, but so long to wait.

    toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond

    rumours of Martha returning now…

    janetteB @janetteb

    @toinfinityandbepond Oh I hope those rumours prove true. Would be nice for Martha to be a part of the 60th Anniversary episode.



    Jimbeaux Slice @jimbeauxslice

    Found this article today about the upcoming new season.

    BuddyTV – Everything We Know and Speculate about the New Doctor Who Season

    What are your thoughts on the upcoming season?

    winston @winston

    @jimbeauxslice   Hello!  Welcome to the site, I hope you like it here. I am excited about the next series but have no specific theories yet.  I only know that it is so far away and I hate waiting.

    It will be interesting to see what direction RTD takes the show in and a new Doctor is always exciting. The 60th anniversary show seems to have everyone in it and I love to see the old faces  so I guess it is just the waiting.

    Stay safe

    Jimbeaux Slice @jimbeauxslice

    @winston Thanks for the warm welcome. The creators of the original show were brilliant when they came up with idea that the Doctor could regenerate into anyone. It gives them infinite possibilities when casting.

    syzygy @thane16

    I didn’t did I? Read “I hope her acting is as good as her looks?” Nah, I wouldn’t have read that.

    I think the Nu Rose, is in fact a different character called Rose. But I’m effectively 10 weeks behind. Thrilled RTD is taking over the rains. Chibnall must be knackered. I mean surely “he looks a little tired….” 🙂

    old Puro. Hope all and everyone is well.

    nerys @nerys

    @thane16 Good to see you back, Puro! I hope you are doing well. I agree with your sentiments, and am looking forward to a return to the RTD era … with hope!

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Well, I’m intrigued by ‘Nu Rose’.    She must be a different character (this can’t possibly be one of those occasions when they re-cast the same character with a different ‘look alike’ actor, which is rarely ever convincing anyway and – given Billie’s and Yasmin’s looks – they’re obviously not going to do).   Which raises the intriguing question, how and why is RTD doing it?   It must mean something.  It could be total coincidence, of course – no law of physics precludes that – but it would be a massive let-down unless it has some significance to the story.   Even if no more than ‘the Doctor manages to retrieve a ‘Rose’ from the other dimension and gets the wrong one’.

    I hope RTD comes up with something satisfying.

    Rewvian @rewvian

    Doctor Who To Stream On Disney+? BBC & Disney Reportedly In Talks (msn.com)

    I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned it here on the forums yet, but there has been talks about Doctor Who potentially moving to Disney +.

    Currently here in the US, Doctor Who is streaming on HBO Max.  Personally I think that seems like the better fit, and I kind of hope it doesn’t go to Disney.  But that’s just my thoughts on it.  I also don’t really want a “Whoniverse” of the same magnitude as the tangled Marvel movies anyway.  I think one show is honestly enough.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    There have been spinoffs.   Torchwood, which started okay, but then got very dark and a bit too grim for my tastes  (personally, I like ‘dark’, but not that dark).    And the Sarah Jane Adventures, which was aimed at a younger audience (and I never watched).   Just personally, I think one show – Who – is enough.

    I rather dread the influence of any American megacorp intent on ‘maximising the returns from their intellectual property’ or however they choose to describe corporate greed.

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    I am sad to pass on the news that Bernard Cribbins has died today at the age of 92. I’m sure all of us would like to pass  on our collective condolences to his family, Bernard was a great comedic character actor who has given us all memorable characters over 70 years from his Carry-on roles to his role as Wilfred Mott -not his first role on Who

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Christmas is coming, and here is something to save up all those pennies for.


    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave
    janetteB @janetteb

    Thank you for the news @blenkinsopthebrave. I wish I was more excited but maybe, the end will be better than previous. I keep hoping and if Ian is in it then there will be at least one reason to watch it.



    winston @winston

    @blenkinsopthebrave   Well , it looks like they have all the major baddies in this one. It should be exciting with all those guys in it and the Master is always fun to watch. I am looking forward to this one and I hope they send the 13th Doctor off with a bang.

    stay safe

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb   Maybe the finale will be, as you say, better.   (That’s called ‘damning with faint praise I think   😉    I’m still waiting for my Resolution of the Daleks DVD to arrive so then I can watch Series 13 (which I already have but waiting to watch in sequence) so then after that there’s a couple of specials before ‘The Power of the Doctor’.    Whittaker series 2 was better than Whittaker series 1 anyway, hopefully the progression continues.

    Oh, *Revolution* of the Daleks, it seems, we had Resolution (of one Dalek IIRC) before.   Revolution, Revelation, Retribution, Restitution, Evolution, Dissolution, Termination, Extermination (of course), Elevation, I can think of an almost infinite number of potential  ‘… of the Daleks’ titles.   My mind is rambing out of control, I think a lack of new Doctor Who episodes to digest…   🙂

    @winston    Well, I hope the confluence of ‘all the major baddies’ works.   Sometimes, more is not better.   For example, Journey’s End where they had a chorus line of companions working the Tardis – it all felt kind of phony and artificial, as if they had to find something for everybody to do and give everyone equal billing.   In dramatic terms, it doesn’t work unless there’s some specific reason for each person to be there.   I think in Pandorica Opens/Big Bang it worked because having all the Doctor’s enemies combining was kind of the point (and nor did they try to give each one an equal share of screen time).    But what do I know, I won’t see it anyway for six months until the DVD comes out…

    Mudlark @mudlark

    For the record, there is an interview with Steven Moffat in today’s Guardian in which, among other things, he discusses with good humour some of the more negative responses to his take on Doctor Who and Sherlock.


    Thanks for that link.  The ingredients could, in theory, add up to an exciting send-off for the thirteenth Doctor and I will certainly watch it, but I await it with muted expectations. ‘Blessed are they who expect nothing for, either way, they will not be disappointed’.


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @mudlark   That was an excellent interview with the Moff.     Two things the critics reportedly alleged, which I absolutely disagree with – one was (alleged) misogyny.    Maybe my perspective is different from this side of the gender gap, but would a misogynist ever have created such strong and appealing female characters as Sally Sparrow, River Song, Amy, Missy, Clara, Osgood, the Interface (Rose), or Bill?

    And the other was ‘clever’ ‘puzzle-box’ plots.   Maybe that’s more a matter of taste, but I absolutely love a multi-layered plot where words and actions take on a different significance with hindsight and where a second watching is rewarded by new insights.   The obvious example being Hell Bent where we don’t know (first time through) which one is fishing for information and which one knows exactly what is going on.   That adds more depth to the episode, helped of course by good acting and characterisation (always need that).    Or Last Christmas, another classic.   And, it’s always fun to watch.    I sometimes think the critics are so cynical they can’t stand watching something that’s just plain well-made, polished and enjoyable.


    Mudlark @mudlark


    Your views on Moffat’s writing coincide pretty much exactly with mine. I, too, love the ‘puzzle boxes’ and the densely layered plots which repay multiple re-viewings – so much more satisfying than simple narratives, though I concede that the latter can be very entertaining. As for the accusations of misogyny, I, born in 1942 and raised feminist almost from the cradle, failed to see any. In fact, I think he is pretty good on the whole at writing female characters and there is a small, inner bad girl part of me that would love to be River Song – after all, we do share a profession, although I might justifiably criticise her methods  😉

    Last Christmas is one of my favourite episodes among the Christmas specials, too.

    Chibnall suffers in contrast in coming directly after this high point. He is by no means a bad writer and no doubt there are many who prefer his approach, but it seems to me that he has failed to understand the inner essence of the Doctor or the show as a whole as it has developed, and that may be in part why Whittaker has not, as Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi did, conveyed any real sense that she is very old and contains the experience and knowledge of all her previous incarnations. In commenting I have tried not to be too critical and to focus on what was positive, but it is telling that the numbers of people commenting here as markedly decreased, and that for me, personally, whilst episodes written by Moffat or during his tenure as showrunner remain clear in my somewhat erratic memory, most of those since Chibbers took over tend to be somewhat hazy.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    After reading the Moffat interview I can only agree with your reflections on both Moffat and Chibnall. But I also found myself recognizing a slight irritation on his part to being criticized  for his cleverness (as if cleverness was a character flaw) that reminded me of Johnathan Miller.

    Miller was seemingly, or indeed actually, brilliantly clever at just about everything, from comedy to medicine to directing opera, but was intensely irritated at being criticized for his cleverness.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @mudlark and @dentharturdent (excellent avatar btw) Agree with both posts. I do get irritated by MOffat’s use of the psychopath label when applied to River Song as she is not a psychopath though at times that aspect of her character is inconsistent but that is a different, and minor niggle. Moffat created some memorable female characters who were strong and able to hold their own against the Doctor. NO mean feat. Also his characters never overshadowed the Doctor.

    I too love the puzzle box nature of Moffat’s scripts which is why I am always checking to see what he is doing next.

    Mudlark I too have tried to remain positive about the more recent series but now it is almost over I am analysing why it failed to engage me in the way that previous series did. It tried to be Doctor Who but something was always missing, an ingredient that I find hard to define.  A friend recently described some tv series as being “like a hug”. These are the series that we go back to time and time again, watching and rewatching, because not only do they entertain and stimulate but they have that “hug” quality. that for me is Dr Who, RTD did capture that quality but it was under Moffat’s tenure that it really shone for me. Chibnell’s tenure could entertain but it rarely stimulated any real analysis and was entirely lacking in the “hug” quality. There are only three or four episodes that really stand out in memory for me.

    @blenkinsopthebrave. It says something about the age we live in where the term, “cleverness” is a criticism and not a compliment. I think that both MIller and Moffat are justified in being annoyed by that.

    I hope that RTD will convince Moffat to write another episode or two. Maybe a Christmas Special. I do miss the Christmas Specials.



    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @mudlark It’s a little bit reassuring (to me) to see that female persons agree with me on Moffat’s characters and I’m not somehow blinkered by my male point of view. (Actually I just realised I’ve stereotyped myself horribly there – I’m not really sure what a ‘male point of view’ is, forget I said that 🙂

    Whittaker was either mis-cast or mis-written (or both), I find it hard to see an ancient Doctor there. I’d say she’s too young, but Matt Smith was too and he managed to overcome that. I think he had more help from the script, though. WhitDoc’s habit of constantly talking to herself is annoying, comes across as dithering, and detracts from any weight her character has, IMO.

    @blenkinsopthebrave I can absolutely sympathise with Moff’s irritation when, after crafting a nicely constructed story, and freshened it up with interesting and witty dialogue, some critic dismisses it as ‘too clever’. I’d be tempted to label such critics as too thick to appreciate it, but that’s probably not the case, I think it’s more a reflection of the current fashion of anti-intellectualism. In Moff’s place I’d feel like asking (sarcastically) whether he should put in a fart joke and a laugh track.

    I think there’s definitely a place for stories that take a little attention to follow the plot. I know Moff has said there needs to be a little high point every five minutes to keep people watching, and that’s quite true. I think Moff was pretty good at doing both – exercising the minds of the aficionados while still keeping the attention of the casual viewer.

    I’m also a sucker for interesting language (that’s NOT a euphemism for swearing!) whether dialogue or written narrative in a book. Nothing bores me quicker than reading a story where every character says the same banal predictable thing as a thousand characters before them. How to make dialogue fresh and interesting is a gift some writers have (I don’t!). And an ability to convey a lot of meaning in a few words. Terry Pratchett had that – I remember for example the tiny chuckle of delighted recognition I got when I read, of the missing Angua the werewolf, ‘her basket hadn’t been slept in’ – of course, where else would a werewolf sleep? Or, of the cruel aesthete Lord Hong’s luckless subordinates, ‘most of whom couldn’t compose poetry to save their lives, and some of them hadn’t’. Ouch! An entire horror scenario conjured up in one phrase, that’s impressive. It also tells you all you need to know about Lord Hong.

    On the other hand, I once tried reading an Arthur Hailey blockbuster (Wheels, IIRC) and got about five pages in and said ‘this thing reads like a screenplay’ and gave up. It was just a straight report of how the guy got in his car and drove to work, there was no magic in the words. Or maybe I was in a dyspeptic mood and doing Hailey an injustice.

    @janetteb Your point about ‘hug’ quality is very true (‘hug’ isn’t quite the word I’d use but I can’t think of a better off the top of my head). Series and episodes we keep going back to because they’re good and enjoyable to watch. And I’m afraid you’re right, none of Chibbers’ eps (so far, you never know, I haven’t seen the Flux series yet) are ones that I’d choose as one-offs. Maybe Fugitive of the Judoon with the alternative Doctor Ruth might come closest.

    (If I had to choose just one, of all eps, it would likely be Day of the Doctor. Or maybe Hell Bent.)

    It would be great if the Moff could be lured back to write an episode or three, wouldn’t it?

    (Totally off the point, today Auckland turned on one of those lovely sunny days which it occasionally manages even in winter. My old BMW registered 22 degrees (72 F) air temperature in the supermarket car park, there was almost no wind, so I went for a walk along the deserted beach below the cliffs and took a very brief impromptu dip – the water was almost warm enough (by a couple of degrees) and what-the-hell accounted for the rest. Never, in previous years, have I ever swum before the end of November, and usually not until Christmas. Global warming?)

    … and we’re way off topic in this thread by now   🙂

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