Peter Capaldi as the 12th Doctor

[syzygy @thane16]

@missy

Understood!  🙂

From  Thane

[Missy @missy]

@thane16

Thumbs up.

Missy

 

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@missy

misunderstand what I mean

What is there to understand about small-minded racism?

 

[syzygy @thane16]

@missy

played by a white actor (why do people never get irate when they are called white?

I think that’s because some white people during the civil rights era believed that “negroes” -now African Americans were inferior. They were continually exploited by deep south sharecroppers into the late ’50s. White men continued to earn better money. At a point in 1962 an African American said “I can go to the library & see other black men working at a desk not sweeping. I can go to court and see them in the jury not the dock.”

The language can be the problem but as far as I can see many African Americans may call themselves ‘black’ when once whites called them “niggers” or “coloured.”  Maybe by using the term African American we can remember how these people came into the country in the first place -which is as slaves- then, even waaay past this, into the 40s/50s African Americans couldn’t obtain a mortgage & many -and I’m writing of the 1950s and 60s  – could not register to vote. They were expected to copy out parts of the constitution and then were made to explain what they had written. White people were not asked this during voter registration but African– Americans were  – even though they were still American voters and not different.

I hope this helps,

Thane.

 

[syzygy @thane16]

oops I’m badly off topic. Not cool.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@pedant If you want to see some small minded racism, try following Tracy Ann Oberman on Twitter. She was Yvonne Hartman in both Torchwood and Doctor Who.

I don’t mean TracyAnnO is racist. I’m talking about far too many of the people currently attacking her – for speaking her mind on a subject that personally concerns her. THAT is small minded racism.

What we have here is a polite discussion about our own attitudes.

[addendum]
We’re getting wildly off-topic here, and should probably move over to the pub, but – Mark Gattis, writer of Empress of Mars, has said in interview how his first instinct was to object to the casting of Bayo Gbadamosi – on the pretty much the exact same grounds as @missy objecting to David Copperfield; there were no black soldiers at that time and in that place.

Fortunately, before he emailed, he checked. And discovered that he was wrong; that there had been at least one black soldier on the British side and in a regular regiment. It had been the right decision to cast ‘race-blind’.

[Kharis @kharis]

@ichabod “…and that’s Lowest Common Denominator territory: stay bland and perky so as not to upset anybody anywhere, everybody just wants “light entertainment” for their family evenings, and the qualities that made the thing go in the first place get filed down to nothing, in an effort to safeguard a much bigger investment and  a much bigger pay-off.”

Exactly, well said, but that is why for the first time I’m so nervous to watch the premiere.  I want to like it, but I think I’m going to need a LOT of wine to get into this.

[Missy @missy]

@thane16

I have an aversion to referring to anyone as as ‘coloured or nigger.’ I remember an English actor getting into trouble for saying ‘coloured’ not long ago. The person in question preferred to be referred to as ‘black.’

I also become angry when people  say, ‘Frogs, Ities, Yanks, Wops, Chinks,’ etcetera. Are they too lazy to say the correct word, or simply stupid?

@kharis

Not a wine drinker I’m afraid, it tastes awful in my opinion *grins*

What I’ll need is a great deal of will power – and maybe a bucket!

Missy

[Missy @missy]

I knew there was something I meant to ask. Have any of our members noticed the various facial expressions Peter Capaldi was capable of?  They were very expressive, especially in Thin Ice.  I didn’t notice this in the other three Doctors.

Missy

[Anonymous @]

@missy I did. His range of facial expressions it’s incredible. Not only in Thin Ice, I noticed it in a lot of episodes

[Kharis @kharis]

@missy “What I’ll need is a great deal of willpower – and maybe a bucket!”  LOL!  This truly did make me laugh out loud, thanks, Missy.  (:

@thane16 How are you both?

@tempusfugit & @missy  Capaldi was amazing and by far one of the most talented actors the show has ever had.

It’s especially hard to lose a favorite Doctor to regeneration, it always seems like a death in so many ways.  We are all seriously stoic fans, in reality, considering we have all now mourned 12 Doctors.  The ones we love and personally connect to are the hardest, and Capaldi was that for me.  It just feels a little more tragic to have the trailer for the new Doctor feel so uninspiring with such little hope of making a connection with this Doctor.  The 2nd and 7th Doctor were hard for me to connect with, but I sloshed through it, so I will still watch and keep up, but I really needed a Doctor I could feel inspired and connected to this year, or one that made me smile (11th & 4th) or even just a world I could escape to.  I had the roughest year of my life and I needed that, not another beige, bombastic and predictable world the BBC has created to use as one more tool to manipulate and pacify the sheep.  I feel like the BBC has been whitewashing everything that was once creative, original, thought-provoking or whimsical in a gray version of beige. I needed something to look forward to, and I can’t trick myself into any enthusiasm this time.  I really hope my gut is wrong.

 

[Anonymous @]

@kharis you just took the words out of my mouth. I became a fan during the Smith era, I watched all the new series from the beginning and this summer I had the opportunity to watch the classic via Twitch. I hadn’t grieved the loss of a Doctor the same way I grieve the 12th. My first was Eccleston because I wanted to watch all the seasons first before starting with Smith, and I took a time to get used to Tennant. Then I was ok when Ten and Eleven regenerated, though I also love Eleven, as well as the Classic Doctors. I fell in love with the 12th Doctor because his character was so complex, he didn’t give a shit sometimes, he was hilarious and kind at the same time and I got a big deal of pleasure watching him. I’m curious about Jodie but I wasn’t enamoured with changing the Doctor’s gender simply because I saw the character as male. I get hurt at some of the absolutely rude and mysoginistic comments I read on internet. I wished Capaldi had stayed one or three seasons more😭😭

[ichabod @ichabod]

@kharis  @tempusfugit  Well, this weekend is IT, and my feelings are — mixed.  Every time Chibnall opens his mouth about the new season, my heart sinks a little more.  “Every show a self-contained story” sounds to me like a return to 100% “monster of the week” and no need to bother staying for the end, because there’s no chance of failure, and everyone ends up exactly as they started so the next “self-contained story” can toddle on without any continuity with what came before.  This can be fine — look at Star Trek NG (most of it, anyway) for a successful example.  A problem is solved each time, and the ship sails on unchanged, which is reassuring for the young, but  unchallenging for the not-so-young-any-more.

Yet, since we (those of us who found their Doctor in Capaldi’s version) can’t have more Capaldi but we love the show, we should be fine with a whole new tack being taken this time, something exciting and different.  I’ve said I’m fine with it, and I am — except that I’m not sure that at 79 (this month!) such a format will keep me on board.  Here in the US, at least, even the cop shows have story arcs, to keep adult audiences interested before and after the solution of the crime of the week (and many of them have also even gone boldly into multi-episode stories).  Our most successful new series are things like “Sinner”, a supposedly closed-ended “limited” series that told a story from beginning to end of its first season.  It now has a season two, a new story.  Series like “The Bridge” and, um, “The Tunnel” are good examples — very strong on character and continuity.  We’ve grown used to complex, long-form stories (GOT is that, strung out over 5 seasons I think it is, and the biggest hit in damn near forever).

In fact, we’ve grown used to limited series based on books — novels, whole series of novels — “Sharp Objects”, “Longmire”, “Secrets and Lies”, “Safe”, “The Expanse”, “The Leftovers”, and so on.  That often means complex stories with lots of sub-plots, major characters, twists and turns.

But of course, these are all grown-up shows.

Which is exactly what has me dubious about DW: that it won’t be the least bit “grown up” any more.  So — maybe lots for newbies, but nothing for me and my ilk.

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod

Nor me, unfortunately. Hey ho, back to my box sets.

Missy

[Anonymous @]

You know, after all the trashing Peter Capaldi has got from the tabloids (did you read the Daily Mail yesterday? It’s shameful and disgusting), I’m less onboard with everything. I’m a big Doctor Who fan, but when they continously trash and throw your Doctor under the bus, you get fed up. Some people is complaining that Capaldi didn’t get the promotion he deserved, and now Jodie has got a ton of promotion. This hurts and I can’t help but feel disilusioned

[Anonymous @]

I totally understand you @missy

[Missy @missy]

>@tempusfugit

Oh well, we know his worth. Don’t let idiots get you down. Not everyone can like the same actor – I cannot abide Jodie Whitaker since the moment I saw her in Tess of the D’Urbervilles, which is not her fault, and I won’t rubbish her. It just makes the new series even harder to bear.
Chin up. Mr. C is in David Copperfield, something to look forward to.

Missy

[Anonymous @]

@missy you are right. I can’t help but feel outraged with some stuff. It isn’t that people like him or not, is the rude ways they talk about him. *sigh* I haven’t seen Tess. I saw JW on Broadchurch, Attack the block and St Trinians. I don’t connect with her as actress as much as I connect with other actors

 

[Missy @missy]

@tempusfugit

Lots of people enjoyed the new series – but some didn’t. It’s all a question of choice and political correctness.

I’ve seen JW in a few things,  but not the last two  you mentioned. She reminded me of Joanne Froggatt of Robin Hood and Downton Abbey, she always played herself.

But, that’s my opinion. *grins*

Missy

 

[Anonymous @]

@missy I think it’ll take time for me to get used to her as the Doctor. In my mind the Doctor is a male character and I find it hard to adjust to the change of gender

[Missy @missy]

@tempusfugit

I won’t have to get used to her, cos I ain’t wachin – innit!

Well done you though, I wish could accept it. The Doctor should……….you know how I feel. *winks*

Missy

[Anonymous @]

@missy yes and I understand perfectly  I’m not hyped at all about the new series, unlike 4 years ago when I was waiting the new Doctor with illusion

[Missy @missy]

I inadvertently saw a picture of the Tardis – I didn’t go looking for it – and I see the St. John’s Ambulance badge has been removed?

The Tardis, like an ambulance, brings help and a safe haven for everyone, so why?

Also, the Pull of Open has been painted black? What for?

Will they paint the outside  pale blue or pink next? Or will they fix chameleon circuit and change the shape?

Missy

[JimTheFish @jimthefish Time Lord]

@missy

Come on, the St John’s sign had been absent for most of the series post-early Hartnell. And the sign was white on black through Pertwee, Baker, Davison and beyond…

[Missy @missy]

@jimthefish

True, but not recently!

All through Matt smith and Pete Capaldi. They have their female, leave the Tardis alone.

Well, that’s how I feel anyway.

Missy

[nerys @nerys]

@magickirin You will find plenty of folks around here who disagree with your opinion of Peter Capaldi, and also Bill Potts (portrayed with refreshing deftness by Pearl Mackie) … myself included.

[Missy @missy]

@magickirin

You are entitled to your opinion, but I would argue the Worst? I don’t think there has been a Worst, just preferences.

As for Bill Potts to me she was more down to earth than Sarah Jane smith, bit I still liked her, and that’s simply my opinion.

Missy

[Anonymous @]

@magickirin – Sorry, I agree with @nerys and @missy here.  If the Twelfth Doctor didn’t entertain you, well, then he didn’t, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t entertaining at all.

It all depends on what you value.  I want sense of wonder, originality, audacity, and for the show and its episodes to explore the show’s and episodes’ premises, and on that basis I have to give very high grades to Twelve and Bill Potts both.  But, as I said, it all depends on what you value.  What is it you look for in a Doctor and companion that they didn’t give you?

You can just call them “worst,” but all that gets in response is questions and shrugs.

[Anonymous @]

@magickirin – Thank you.  Those are good reasons.  I don’t agree, but I understand and respect where you’re coming from.  And when I say I don’t agree, I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that both Twelve and Bill didn’t come across that way to me.

I’ve got a half-finished blog sitting here.  Let me get it done and posted, and you’ll see what I mean.  Which doesn’t mean you’ll agree. 😀

[Anonymous @]

And it’s up: Backing Away from the Premise

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@kevinwho @nerys

Can we not feed the troll please.

[syzygy @thane16]

@pedant I get it. I really do. But personal attacks like  “You’re pathetic” etc doesn’t help the tone. And if it changes one mind, and it allows for other posters (of some note) to read, and to realise there are people who can use measured argument and discussion then it’s not feeding, to me. One feed is all they get from me. A drip feed: it’s giving them one shot.

Also, didn’t you mention once, though I could be wrong, that fascists should be told “NO” and, ahem, punched in the head?  🙂

Nasty repartee is bad -I wanted to avoid that. But I apologise to you and @craig for doing possibly the wrong thing entirely. I ‘tink it was the “pathetic” that did it.  I’m many things but pathetic aint one! I can be a duffer, a buffer, out of choon, out of date, out of line, but pathetic -that’s too much    😀

Ah, see, this place has taught me to think, be curious, respect the others and 4 years ago was taught the urban word: ‘troll.’ I still have trouble, exactly, working out who they really  are!  Also on the Sofa, a little gift. You get to play Claudia!    Puro and Thane.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@thane16

Out of choon, you say?

This strikes me as unlikely.

[syzygy @thane16]

@pedant ah, OK, out of tune and out of time is a Vaclav Havel prose about hope and the Velvet revolution.

I think Capaldi would’ve appreciated Havel:

The redemption of  humanity lies nowhere else than in the human heart, in the human power to reflect, in meekness and human responsibility….in time there is hope; tune can be applauded but sometimes run away from both.

 

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@thane16

Respect to Vaclav. He would be a great character for the Doctor to meet.

[Missy @missy]

@kevinwho

Whether we were responding to a troll or not, I wouldn’t know, didn’t sound like the usual. However, I agree with you

about values. As for Peter Capaldi’s Doctor, he was the most human of all. he felt everything and you could see that he did by his facial expressions.  When nadole says to  Bill :”That’s the Doctor for you. Never notices the tears.” he is quite wrong, he notices and tries in different ways to make things better.

As for Bill, apart from my personal favourite Rose, I found her to be very down to earth and endearing – real actually.

There again, this is simply my opinion.

Missy

[Anonymous @]

@missy – It was a troll, or close enough as makes no difference.  Descended into personal attacks after awhile. 🙁

As for everything else you said – you said it!  Me too, including Rose (although it’s really close).

[Missy @missy]

@kevinwho

I didn’t put it well, but at least you knew what I meant. *grins*

Missy

[Anonymous @]

@missy – Fair enough! 🙂

[Missy @missy]

@kevinwho

Yes, close for me too. Rose has always been my favourite, ever since she said:  “I want chips.” *laughs*

Missy

[Caitlin Gosling @caitlingosling]

thanks

[Author]

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