S33 (7) 14 – The Name of the Doctor (part 2)

Home Forums Episodes The Eleventh Doctor S33 (7) 14 – The Name of the Doctor (part 2)

This topic contains 63 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  Twholt 4 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #20533
    OsakaHatter @osakahatter

    @arkleseizure, @bluesqueakpip

    The soufflé isn’t the soufflé. The soufflé is the recipe.

    I wonder if it means ‘Clara isn’t the Clara. ‘Clara’ is a recipe.’

    That is, Clara-from-Blackpool isn’t the original template. And the original template was created, like a recipe.

    I like your thinking on this, it’s a line that bothered me from the first time I watched the episode.  I thought it was a reference to the GI – he’s just a recipe, an idea that can be duplicated (he creates hollow personifications of himself.)  It never quite fit though, because the GI can create perfect copies but the soufflé references are always about the failure to replicate the recipe perfectly.

    So, taking your substitution of Clara for soufflé instead, I’d propose:

    The Claricles aren’t Clara-from-Blackpool.  Clara-from-Blackpool is a recipe.

    i.e. Clara-from-Blackpool is the original (as made by her mum).  But however many times that ‘recipe’ is attempted again, they’re never quite the same.  i.e. each Claricle will be a little different.  Which could pose the question, did any of the attempts to cook a Clara go properly wrong?

    #20544
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @osakahatter – I think the real problem with that interpretation is that it goes against the way Jenna Coleman reads the line. What she seems to be saying (to me) is that the souffle itself isn’t the spirit of the souffle. There’s no such thing as an ‘ur-souffle’. There’s only the recipe, and it’s the recipe which makes all the souffles.

    I agree that no Claricle will be exactly the same; I’m just not sure if Clara’s mum’s trying to explain that there’s no ‘unreal’ Clara. They’re all equally real, just as a souffle made to a recipe is a real souffle.

    I suspect all the Clara’s inability to cook a souffle that lives is a little meta-comment on the way all the Claricles are destined to die early.

    Minor comment: Clara’s mum was obviously a good cook. In The Dalek Invasion of Earth, the Doctor describes Susan as a good cook.

    #21070
    CraigNixon @craignixon

    Hmm, I read that line completely differently again.

     

    The Souffle is not the end product, its the recipe-all the little things that go into a life – that makes the souffle

    #21071

    A recipe is an idea.

    The idea of Clara is constant. As we have seen the specifics of any given Clara are shaped by circumstance.

    (Google Ceci n’est pas une pipe if you are unfamiliar with it)

    ***Image of Moffat cackling “THAT’ll keep the fans distracted!”***

    #21143
    thommck @thommck

    My last bit of catch up before the big day!

    Watched this one with my 2 sons in the dark, even my eldest boy came in to watch (albeit with headphones on!).

    This is another episode that is just so fun to re-watch, without any pressure of expectation.

    Clara does some more echoing with “I don’t know were I am?” as she falls through the time stream. This is what all the people trapped in the wifi during tBoSJ say. I wonder if she escapes she will have upgraded intelligence/powers or if she’ll need a Donna-style mind-wipe or Rose style exorcism!

    We still don’t actually find out how River knows the Doctor’s name, or when he would say it but I got the feeling it wasn’t from their wedding but something else.

    I definitely got Daddy vibes from the Doctor (being hopeless and naive with children) and River was looking very motherly towards Clara at the end. She reminded me of a mum holding back the tears as her child moves away to bigger and better things. I’m starting to warm to the idea of Clara being the Doctor’s daughter or at least a creation of the Doctor and River.

    Brainwave alert!!!
    What if Clara is a progeny of River, similar to Jenny, the Doctor’s Daughter! That fits with the whole “recipe” thing. Pushing it a little further (possibly too much) Jenny regenerates into a man and has a baby with Clara who is called Susan 😛

    In regards to that awkward soufflé line, I heard it as (like in Batman Begins), it’s not who you are but what you do that defines you.

    #21245
    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    @thommck

    i love your theory of Clara being the daughter of river and the doctor and it would be plausable.

     

    however there is one thing I am

    absolutely certain on after having rewatched the name of the doctor so many times I’m convinced Clara’s mystery is still unsolved. She isnt finiajed baking yet (kind of like buffy in season 7 with the cookie dough analogy)

     

    aomething that nacksy bonkers theory up is the doctor calls her the impossible girl and says to jack your an impossible thing. Might be no connection but then again there could be.

     

    witg the 50tj on tonight I’m starting to thinat the name of the doctor and day of the doctor only share the connection of john hurt appearing I could be wrong though…

     

    Wjat do you think guys?

    #21246
    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    I apologize for my mistypes (grumbles about acrylic nails )

    #24146
    Anonymous @

    @arkleseizure, @bluesqueakpip, @craignixon, @pedant, @osakahatter,

    I watched the Steven Moffat interview posted by @wolfweed (22494) and was impressed by how much SM really does love Doctor Who. He also says how he hopes that Doctor Who will always be made by people who love it. Which sounds like the usual lip service-y thing someone in his position would say, but he actually means it. Steven Moffat’s love of the show got me thinking about a bonkers theory. Could he be implying that he is concerned about the shows future and making shows to get the message out to the fans? Here’s my speculation:

    • “The soufflé is not the soufflé. The soufflé is the recipe”, could be applied to his part in producing the show.  In the episodes Night Terrors and tRoA, DW Eleven explains how things (George, Clara’s mother’s ring, the leaf) become valuable based on what you psychically imprint or fill them up with.  If Doctor Who is the soufflé, the producer’s love is the recipe.

     

    • During SM’s time Doctor Who has become more popular than it has ever been, and people have started talking about another Doctor Who movie.  In Hollywood movies are made by investors, not producers.  Some great characters have been born through movies (Star Wars IV, V, VI for example), but movies are usually where characters go to die (Star Wars I, II, III and ST:TNG, not to mention countless stillborns) – even Doctor Who at one point but he used a regeneration thankfully.  In the end, even good movie characters become like the paintings in TDotD episode. So Doctor Who the show would become like the time lords trapped in a moment of time, but on television it lives.

    I think SM agrees that Doctor Who should remain a television show and only made by people who love it.  But I don’t know if he would use the show to make it happen?

    @thommck – btw thanks for the terrific Batman comic you posted

    #25195
    Anonymous @

    @adt1957. If my doctor who history is correct the name of the doctor can be found in the Tom Baker story The Key to Time Part 6 The Armageddon Factor where the doctor meets an associate from the time lord academy called Drax who happened to have spent some time on Earth in a place called Brixton. The doctor’s name is Feta Sigma.

    #25197
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @adt1957 – Theta Sigma is a nickname. Sorry. It’s two letters from the Greek Alphabet. It’s pretty appropriate – according to Wikipedia, theta was seen in classical times as a warning of possible death and used in voting for the death penalty. Sigma doesn’t have any classical connotations, but it’s used a lot in science to stand for an unknown quantity.

    The unknown quantity who’s a warning of possible death/danger. Yup, that’s our Doctor. 🙂

    You can see it on the message River sends to the Doctor in The Pandorica Opens; it’s also referenced in The Happiness Patrol.

    #25203
    Anonymous @

    Thank you Bluesqueakpip for that bit if knowledge. Being from Sydney one does have a bit of trouble with some of those pommie accents particularly the northern ones and the east end. There are a lot of  people in England as well as a few here who use f instead of t which is why i used that name. It was correct just different pronunciation. We have very little difference in dialects from one side of Australia to another. Thinking back to all the doctors i always thought that Silvestor Mcoy  sounded a lot  like Black Adder.

    I wonder how Rowan Atkinson would have gone as a doctor.

    #25205
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @adt1957 – yes, using ‘f’ for ‘th’ is very common in some English accents.

    The late Barry Jackson played Drax with a pronounced ‘London’ accent, so ‘Feta Sigma’ is exactly how he said it. 😀

    Rowan Atkinson’s Doctor can be seen in The Curse of Fatal Death, a Comic Relief spoof written by one Steven Moffat.

    I wonder what happened to Mr Moffat? Anyone heard of him since? 😈

    #25206
    ScaryB @scaryb

    haha @bluesqueakpip, you pipped me to the post

    :mrgreen:

    #40567
    Twholt @twholt

    Just realized something interesting, after the umpteenth rewatch of NoTD. If one skips to about time-stop 17:10 into the episode, you can view the scene where the door to the Doctor’s tomb opens, and River walks out, and announces that she said the doctor’s name (To noone in particular). Well, as she moves off-screen and the scene cuts, you can watch Mr. G Intelligence’s eyes follow her, as if he knows she is there.

    It is well established at the end of this episode, and inferred throughout, that the Doctor can see River as well. Is she not quite as invisible as she thinks? Especially since GI’s “Whisper Men” were in the conference call, can he see her as well? It is just a telepathic link, but everyone present in the episode save the Doctor was there. Can they all see her?

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