Spoilers (2)

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  • #46953
    TheatreGuy @theatreguy

    @purofilion ha thank you. No I’m not new – have been a member for A few years – just haven’t posted for a while, been lurking in the shadows – enjoying others’ wild theories 🙂

    #46955
    Anonymous @

    @theatreguy

    well, then; good to see you back and no longer lurking!

    I’m in Oz and  doing my absolute best to stay away from our catch-up TV where I can see Dr Who streamed -but it’s better to watch it this evening with the rest of my happy comrades.

    *telling herself, “don’t go watch it on iView. Just don’t.”*

    😈

    #46956
    Anonymous @

    @lisa I was checking out that link -thank you very much!

    In it, there was a video of how the Dr recalled his ‘face’ and he says “…I save people & if anyone happens to be listening & has a problem with that, then to hell with you!”

    Why does he say “if people are listening?”

    Who would be listening? The Vikings are not the ones he’s talking to. Is he talking to something or someone connected with Clara, therefore??

    I wonder.

    #46957
    Anonymous @

    I am rather inclined to think that Clara is, indeed still in the Dalek and that the Clara we have seen in the episodes since has been picked up by the doctor from earlier in her timeline. I also think that  it is the same Dalek which she was trapped inside in Asylum of the Daleks. In other words Asylum of the Daleks was the end of her story and everything we have seen since The Bells of St John has been leading up to that. (The Snowmen was, I think, a different, earlier Clara or claricle.)

    The fact that both Oswin in Asylum and ‘our’ Clara attempt to make souffles from her mother’s recipe seems to me to strongly suggest they are the same girl. Plus Oswin was a computer genius and we see Clara acquire that ability in The Bells of St John.

    I know there is a difficulty inasmuch as Oswin seems to have a different backstory as Junior Entertainments Officer on the ‘Alaska’ but in that ep MattDoc told Amy that as the nanogenes(?) from the Daleks started to take effect she would suffer memory loss and hallucinations. Also Stephen Moffat often foreshadows the season finale in the preceding episodes and last week we had the Doctor performing memory wipes. Perhaps he did the same for Clara at the end of The Witch’s Familiar, as an act of kindness, realising she could never resume normal life.

    Also last week we saw Clara, from the Zygon pod, imagining herself into a different reality in which she was mentally strong enough to take on Bonnie – very much like Oswin was doing in ‘Asylum’ with the Daleks.

    Oswin (who the doctor never saw, except in Dalek form) saved the Doctor at the cost of her own life when the Daleks blew up the asylum planet but her final words were ‘Run. Run you clever boy and remember . . .’

    Is that what CapDoc is doing now – trying to remember? Is that why he continues to backtrack on Clara’s timeline because he knows there is something he has forgotten, something he’s missing? Perhaps we’ll see a last minute (last second!) rescue from the asylum planet with the Tardis, as foreshadowed by his rescue of Journey Blue.

    But then what? Well, he probably still has a repair kit from the third mire helmet. But Clara is dalekised now so it may not work. Moffat has said that Clara’s ending will shock, terrify and surprise in that order. What if the surprise is that she continues – perhaps chooses – to live on as a Dalek, amongst the other Daleks. Again we have had a foreshadowing of the concept of a ‘good Dalek’, although he turned out to be merely a broken one. But with a Clara/Dalek hybrid as a sort of fifth columnist . . . who nose?

    I will eat my hat if any of this turns out to be right – my theory success rate has been zero thus far!

    So off to see if I can find an edible hat then.

     

     

    #46958
    janetteB @janetteb

    @Margaret-Blaine. That is a very good theory. It sounds just like something Moffat would do too. Maybe she lured the Alaska down to the planet because she was desperate for some human company. The wreck of the Alaska is certainly real enough but there is no strong evidence linking her to it. The escape vent could have been used by anybody. Given that much of what we see regarding her is an illusion it is quite possible her escape from the Alaska maybe too. Or maybe she was a Dalek on the Alaska being used to entertain children. Moffat is very intent on showing that no “villain” is entirely evil and even Dalek’s can be redeemed. Maybe Clara was a “good Dalek” because if he could not save her from becoming a Dalek the Doctor would ensure that she did not loose the capacity to have emotions. He would make her a “good Dalek”. And as such she might be immensely powerful, changing the black and white, good verses bad way the universe currently works. It might be a “Good Dalek” that Davros fears most. The Hybrid is a force for peace and that is why they eventually capture and imprison Dalek Clara. That would explain why they were so afraid of her which I always thought a little overdone. After all she was only playing Carmen at them. Umm. I think my theorising has tied itself in knots again. I seem to have ended up in a slightly different position to where I began. Always my problem with essay writing.  I think as I go.

    Oh and welcome back too. It has been a while since you have been posting I think.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #46975
    Kharis @kharis

    Creepy thought for our bonkerizing; the surviving Dalek at the heart of the storm of Big Bang that asked for Mercy (which Daleks are not supposed to be able to do) is Clara.  So River kills her.  Just a creepy bonkers theory.  BTW, note about River having said last time she regenerated she was a child, remember, River lies, has to lie.  Clara has many running themes with Daleks, like Asylum of the Daleks, Into the Daleks and she is never in battle with them, always in them.  Her other theme is being able to control things from her mind, even in aa Wi-Fi,  possession, dream state or Dalek.

    #46978
    janetteB @janetteb

    I think the child who regenerates in New York is too old to be Clara but she is also too old to be Amy’s contemporary. I have to watch those episodes again to be certain but I always assumed that there had to be a regeneration between that child and Mels.

    @kharis that is indeed a creepy thought.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #47005
    nerys @nerys

    @margaret-blaine I too believe that since “The Witch’s Familiar” Clara has remained trapped in the Dalek, and that we would come back full circle to her “Asylum of the Daleks” incarnation. But I hadn’t worked out exactly how. You’ve come up with a beautiful theory. Bravo!

    #47072
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    Here’s a mystery to me:  Why doesn’t the Doctor know where Gallifrey is?  His sonic screwdriver held the program that calculated where to put Gallifrey in the first place in The Day of the Doctor.  The only way it can’t know I think is that there was an extra input that could not be calculated in advance:  Where were the exact locations of the Dalek ships firing on each other?  That had to be known so that the planet could disappear at exactly the right moment so that the Dalek fleet would annihilate itself.  And if there is no way to know where those ships were … unless someone or something controlled those ships and put them in the right place at the right moment.

    To think like the Doctor, do not ask who or what the hybrid is, think what the hybrid is supposed to do.  The hybrid must be the answer that ends the Dalek – Time Lord wars and allows Gallifrey to return to the universe.  The hybrid must control the Daleks including reaching back in time.

    But the Daleks are infinitely adaptable, infinitely determined.  They cannot be contained within time.  No, eventually the hybrid controlling the Daleks must exist outside of normal time and space.  The hybrid must be … chronolocked.

    But the hybrid would feel inside itself time passing.  The chronolocked hybrid would feel itself to be trapped in its own hell, forever.

     

    #47075
    Frobisher @frobisher

    An interesting theory, @margaret-blaine , regarding the Clara we’ve seen since The Witch’s Familiar being an earlier Clara than the one from The Magician’s Apprentice. I have a dim recollection that, possibly when saying goodbye to the Doctor at the end of the last series, Clara has at some point referenced a number of adventures she and the Doctor have shared that we have not seen. Does anyone else remember that? If so, would any of these “unseen” adventures match up with what we’ve seen this series? That would support your theory.

    FWIW, I think Clara did get out of the Dalek (the only reason we didn’t see it was dull production reasons), but the Dalek didn’t get out of her. She is now a human/Dalek/Time Lord/Zygon/Sandman hybrid, and counting. Ultimately, Chekhov’s hybridisation must come into play at the series denouement, but quite how is anyone’s guess.

    Either that, or the Doctor is being accompanied by Colony Sarff cosplaying as Clara (j/k).

    #47078
    geoffers @geoffers

    @kharis

    So River kills her.  Just a creepy bonkers theory.  BTW, note about River having said last time she regenerated she was a child, remember, River lies, has to lie.  

    did we see river kill the dalek that asked for mercy? she tells amy that “it died.” but, as you point out… river lies!

    the other sticking point in this part of the theory, is why would clara shoot the doctor?! why would she pursue them around and through the museum, trying to kill them all?

    of course, the doctor could have planned it all, in a timey wimey way! but still, we don’t see the “mercy” dalek die…

    #47079
    Frobisher @frobisher

    @theatreguy

    I’m glad Scott Bakula tempted you to post! Thanks for clarifying that about how the Claricles come into being. Or should that be Clara-fying that? ;¬)

    Sorry if I’m a little (cough, very, cough) late to the party on this, but some thoughts on the Claricles actually being born:

    1. This seems like an incredibly inefficient and risky way of placing Claricles where and when they need to be in the time stream. What would have happened if a Claricle were to die or become otherwise incapacitated between conception and saving the Doctor? There are ~25 years of things that could go wrong to stop the Claricle doing what it needs to.

    2. Were the parents of each Claricle not surprised to find their child looked nothing like either of them (unless the Claricle knew to seek out parents with similar looks)?

    3. Were the Claricle pregnancies created by the time stream timey-wimey stuff, or did the Claricles “over-ride” existing pregnancies? This would be quite wrong. The alternative is also quite weird – causing a pregnancy that would otherwise not have happened. Quite life changing for the parents, no?

    4. Assuming each Claricle lived a “normal” human life (in line with having to be born, growing up, etc), did any of them go on to have children? Would the descendants of a Claricle have any special attributes (e.g. an affinity with time travel)?

    Not trying to pick holes – just genuinely interested in the SF concept at play, and trying to understand it.

    #47080
    janetteB @janetteb

    @frobisher ARRRGh. That is the sound of my brain imploding after considering your questions. The Clara/claricle story is fraught with problems. I am personally convinced that it is best not to think too much about it. Think I will serve dinner instead.

    It would make sense if she appears in each incarnation exactly when she is required rather than being born and growing up, as splinters of Clara were spread through the Doctor’s timeline. The image of the baby in Victorian London implies the later however which makes much less sense.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #47081
    geoffers @geoffers

    @frobisher

    excellent questions, and i wonder if moffat will ever give us definitive answers (haha, i am a fool)…

    but, my take on the claricles is that they appear only in the doctor’s time stream, at those points that the great intelligence was working to destroy him. each claricle is its own bootstrap paradox. she was never born in a traditional sense, she only appeared when needed. the backstory in each individual appearance would change accordingly, so that she could “navigate” the surroundings appropriately (i.e. she would know how to speak gallifreyan, and that’s how she could speak to incarnation #1), but her memories of being born and growing up, etc, were “implanted,” or made up, as needed. or, just variations on the theme of the original clara’s birth? all the claricles are just “stories” that sprang from the original, as she was splintered along the time stream…

    now, is the original also a bootstrap paradox, herself? we will (hopefully) get a definitive answer on that in just a few short weeks!

    🙂

    #47082
    geoffers @geoffers

    @jphamlore

    Here’s a mystery to me:  Why doesn’t the Doctor know where Gallifrey is?

    i think it’s because of the re-setting of the time lines. tennantdoc didn’t remember the events of ‘the day of the doctor,’ nor did hurtdoc (nor, by extension, ecclestondoc). smithdoc only remembers that they tried to save gallifrey, not that they succeeded (immediately after, in the gallery where ‘gallifrey falls no more’ is hanging)…

    but then, after he talks to the curator, he knows it was saved, just not the detail of where. still later, in ‘the time of the doctor,’ is when he deciphers the message from the trapped time lords, on trenzalore, and figures out it’s in a pocket universe, somewhere…

    i think! but the over-writing of his personal time line(s) in ‘the day of the doctor’ is what originally caused him to not know. he’s been searching for clues ever since, as capaldidoc…

    #47085
    geoffers @geoffers

    @jphamlore

    oh, and why can’t he just get the info from the sonic? the calculations were to move gallifrey, and they worked… but the info about where it went? that data simply was not recorded, as the b in that a to b calculation was an unknown, perhaps? it could have, literally, been displaced to anywhere/anywhen, as the plan was pretty desperate, to begin with, and certainly not guaranteed to work…

    but, now i’ve thought about it, the zygon’s placed themselves in paintings. perhaps gallifrey is hidden in the ‘gallifrey falls no more’ painting, as well? perhaps that painting was created by the act of saving gallifrey to the pocket universe? and it’s now in the under gallery, (presumably) somewhere in the tardis? (a few people, recently, have theorized that it’s hidden in either the tardis, or the doctor himself.)

     

    #47087
    janetteB @janetteb

    @geoffers I have long suspected that Gallifrey is captured in the painting. I did mention it a little while ago. Curator Doctor is there to look after it.

    cheers

    Janette

    #47088
    Frobisher @frobisher

    While watching the wonderful sequence of all the known Doctors working to save Gallifrey in The Day of the Doctor, I was struck by the following thought:

    Doctors 1-11 plus the War Doctor are indeed working together to save Gallifrey, as 10, 11 and War planned. When 12 arrives, all eyebrows and determined stare, we are meant to think he too has been summoned, and is helping move Gallifrey into a pocket dimension. But, what if he was not helping the planned effort? Would 11 be able to summon a future Doctor to help anyway? And if so, why weren’t 13, 14, 15, etc also there (in story – obvious real life reasons apart)? What if the 12 previous Doctors didn’t even know 12 was there (it is probably hard to notice anything over the tumult of so many Cloister Bells ringing!)? What if 12 is actually seen doing something yet to come – desperately racing to get back to the point at which he moves/hides Gallifrey to save it in a different way? Maybe he plans to track it, or somehow re-direct it to a location he knows? Maybe at the coordinates Missy gave him? After all, she told him where Gallifrey was, not where and when Gallifrey was. Maybe Gallifrey wasn’t there yet because he hadn’t yet put it there…

    #47090
    geoffers @geoffers

    @janetteb

    i can imagine smithdoc berating himself for being so daft, that it was right in front of him all the time! but surely, knowing it’s saved in the painting, and being able to get into the painting, are two different things? capaldidoc has been actively searching for a path/door back home, but i don’t think he can access “real time” gallifrey by going into the painting…

    or, put another way, you can enter gallifrey’s pocket universe from the inside (via the painting), or from the outside (wherever the hidden “door” is). but if you go in through the painting, it only leads you into that one moment (no pun intended), from either direction (i.e. the time lords, too, can enter the painting, but not go through into our universe). the painting is a portal into the bubble universe, but limited in time. there should be a whole doorway out there, somewhere, to where gallifrey still exists, in the flow of time. how else could the time lords actively transmit the distress signal through the crack on trenzalore?

    trapping your planet (and all those kids) in an un-changing moment of time is slightly less cruel than burning them, i admit, but i think the doctor has to believe he can bring them back to this universe, and that they still live, out there, somewhere, else wouldn’t he still have a load of guilt to deal with?

    hmmm, having thought about all this, the prudent move would just be to find the hidden door, but never bring gallifrey back into this universe. unless he can solve the dalek problem in this universe, there could never be a time that would be safe to do so. but, if the time lords aren’t frozen in time in their bubble universe, wouldn’t they have the knowledge, and means, to bring themselves back, anyway? they sent a signal through the crack at trenzalore, and a new set of regenerations, so why exactly were they asking the doctor if it was “safe?” is rasillon no longer in charge there? hmmm, so many ways the gallifrey story could go…

    #47091
    geoffers @geoffers

    @frobisher

    After all, she told him where Gallifrey was, not where and when Gallifrey was. Maybe Gallifrey wasn’t there yet because he hadn’t yet put it there…

    ah, excellent thought! i remember wondering all series long, last year, “when, in his current incarnation, did he go do that?” i thought all the blackboard stuff was him working on the problem, and was fully expecting that to come up at some point.

    maybe he does that this series, after clara is no longer with him? 🙂

    #47092
    Frobisher @frobisher

    @janetteb
    “It would make sense if she appears in each incarnation exactly when she is required rather than being born and growing up, as splinters of Clara were spread through the Doctor’s timeline. The image of the baby in Victorian London implies the later however which makes much less sense.”

    @geoffers
    “…my take on the claricles is that they appear only in the doctor’s time stream, at those points that the great intelligence was working to destroy him. each claricle is its own bootstrap paradox. she was never born in a traditional sense, she only appeared when needed. the backstory in each individual appearance would change accordingly, so that she could “navigate” the surroundings appropriately (i.e. she would know how to speak gallifreyan, and that’s how she could speak to incarnation #1), but her memories of being born and growing up, etc, were “implanted,” or made up, as needed. or, just variations on the theme of the original clara’s birth? all the claricles are just “stories” that sprang from the original, as she was splintered along the time stream…
    now, is the original also a bootstrap paradox, herself?”

    I think we are thinking along the same lines – the most logical way for Claricles to manifest would be fully formed and Clara shaped, appearing where they need to and shortly before they are required to interact with the Doctor. Any deviations from this would only add risk for no benefit, and if we are talking about “magic” processes they may as well be perfect, I’d have thought. The Claricles would likely be required to interact with those around them to some extent, and not just the Doctor, so it makes perfect sense for the Claricles to be created with the knowledge and memories required to operate in their designated environment – physically and socially. False memories… storytelling. The baby Claricle/s we have seen are nothing more than part of the story we are being told, which is believed to be true by the storyteller herself.

    Another theme seems to be people (particularly Clara) being trapped in things, which could mean that our current Clara is also a Claricle, and is “trapped” in her destiny of only existing to save the Doctor. She’s doooomed, doomed I tells ye… /PteFraser

    #47094
    Mersey @mersey

    @frobisher

    Would 11 be able to summon a future Doctor to help anyway?

    But 12 was there 11 times before or those times he could remember (9?, 10?, 11). 11 didn’t have to summon 12, because he was 12 in the future. 11 had to survive, regenerate and back in time to help as 12. It’s something like River Song who existed even her father had died (had never been born) before she was born.

    #47097
    Frobisher @frobisher

    @mersey

    True, 12 would remember the event. But why no 13? 14? etc. We also don’t see 12 interact with any of the other Doctors, who do seem to be working together and communicating with each other. Does any other Doctor acknowledge the arrival of 12? Is his arrival explicitly shown to help the 12 Doctors work? I don’t think so, but it is a long while since I watched the ep.

    I could be proven wrong (I often am!) but at present I am sure 12 is there on his own mission, not the one we were misdirected to presume.

    #47098
    Mersey @mersey

    @frobisher

    11 and 12 knew that Gallifrey was saved theoretically and 12 saved it practically and that’s why 14 and 15 didn’t turn up. They had no reason. Or 12 turned up to follow Gallifrey after it was saved by his predecessors. It was its last known location in time and space.

    #47099
    Frobisher @frobisher

    @mersey

    11 and 12 knew that Gallifrey was saved theoretically and 12 saved it practically and that’s why 14 and 15 didn’t turn up. They had no reason.

    Hmm, hadn’t thought of that. That could work. Of course, even if they know the outcome, it seems a little churlish and lazy not to turn up and lend a hand, ey? I guess minimising the number of Doctors in any one place and time would be advantageous, though.

    Or 12 turned up to follow Gallifrey after it was saved by his predecessors. It was its last known location in time and space.

    Precisely what I am suggesting. Well, that or he is there to “re-direct” Gallifrey to some where or somewhen of his desire. Doctors 1-11 would still believe Gallifrey is saved, and is in its hidden pocket dimension *. 12, however, will know it is saved, but will also know where and when he put it.

    * Presumably the memory of this would fade with all of these Doctors after the event, as stated in Day of the Doctor, I believe.

    #47118
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    Here’s my theory that might take bonkers to another level.  The Time War and its inevitable restart should Gallifrey reappear in the universe make it impossible for Gallifrey to reappear, because the entire universe would unite against them.

    So what if Moffat is planning to have the Time Lords disappear from the universe’s history, to become the stuff of legend, at least for an experiment of a season.  It would be symmetric to trying to erase memories of the Doctor’s existence.

    But how would one explains events such as the destruction of the Zygon planet that forced them to relocate to places like Earth?  Solar flares, that’s how.

    Now imagine someone, perhaps even the Doctor notes a huge number of species-exterminating solar flares.  He may remember the Time War, but suppose it becomes apparent something else is causing solar flares, including targeting Earth …

    #47164
    lisa @lisa

    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-17/maisies-got-some-monsters-and-the-doctors-got-an-asbo-in-new-doctor-who-pictures

    Pictures for the next episode. I saw snakes on the street flag and a 2 faced alien in 2 pictures
    including 1 where she/he is leaning possibly unconscious on the staircase.

    I’ve seen something that looks like that 2 faced alien before but I cant recollect where it was.

    #47165
    Anonymous @

    @lisa thanks for that -I must have looked at the wrong thing -I saw the pictures we were given -with the text in between but, aside from the Judoon, Lady Me with her necklace, the Dr in his crimson jacket, I didn’t the flags or snakes?

    Was it belonging to pictures, where, under the article it says “more to read” -in mauve?

    #47178
    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    I found this link to a you tube preview of Face the Raven.  It’s amazing…….

    #47179
    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    Actually that is from the BBC you tube channel so official I think

    Probably should have put that in BBC approved spoilers?  Don’t know how to move it now though, sorry.

     

    #47180
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    I’m curious if Face the Raven could be equally titled Ashildr’s Revenge.

    Those snake like tattoos on her.  Perhaps they are an offer from the Daleks for a peace treaty with the Time Lords that will break the Doctor’s heart.  Ashildr specifically mentioned she remembered Clara as a possible future weapon versus the Doctor.

    So perhaps it is the Daleks who offer a peace with an adjudicator, Clara, trapped in a chronolock for all eternity to enforce the peace, past and present.  It turns out that Clara has been in training throughout her life to handle this role.  Clara can for example go back in time and exactly arrange the Daleks during their assault on Gallifrey so that the location of Gallifrey will now be known by the Doctor.  Clara will also be responsible for erasing the Time Lords from history so they are only myth and legend.  The mysterious street in London that no one knew about is a demonstration to the Time Lords of how they can hang out on Earth without being detected.  The Judoon are there because the Shadow Proclamation sensed something odd going on.

    Ashildr gets her revenge on the Doctor because she has schemed, perhaps with Missy’s help, to get the Doctor’s companion Clara trapped for eternity in an equivalent of hell.

    #47185
    ichabod @ichabod

    @jphamlore  perhaps it is the Daleks who offer a peace with an adjudicator, Clara, trapped in a chronolock for all eternity to enforce the peace, past and present. It turns out that Clara has been in training throughout her life to handle this role.

    Ah, I like that — she could be gone, but not dead; just gone, on permanent assignment . . . And I certainly could see Ashildr as designing a baleful revenge, though that seems more Missy’s style to me.

    I dunno, though.  Ravens symbolize death as well as Munin and Hugin (have I got those right?  Memory and — ??).  She has to be brave in order to face a deadly danger, or a death sentence, but maybe not to take on a job of towering importance, saving not the Doctor but the peace of the universe . . . her multi-hybridizations supports preparation for such a fate, but the vibe I’m been getting about her throughout S9 is more dark and dire than that.

    I am very glad, though, to see the red velvet coat at last — been waiting.  Red as blood, walking wounded . . . Moffat says somewhere in a comment something about taking everything from the Doctor, pushing him to the utmost to see to what destructive extremes might he go — a Time Lord with literally nothing to lose?

    That confession dial — I don’t think it’s a maguffin.  I’d think it’s what he speak into when he’s alone in “Heaven Sent”, working through the story, his options, and his rage before the storm of “Hell Bent”, only then can he give/have given it to Ohila to give to Missy back at the start?  A confession of what he *intends* to do in response to losing Clara, only to be unsealed when he’d done it, and died in the process?  Possible?  How out of order are we here, in terms of time?

     

     

    #47192
    james @jammiedodger

    hi there first time posting and its a question sorry guys :/ I know a lot of spoiler stuff the problem is whether it is too spoilery I know when clara is going to die and what is in-store for the rest of the season well at least i think i do unless i have been misled problem is can i share or would it ruin the fun too much :/

    #47193
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    jammiedodger: I welcome all speculation so go right ahead.

    Quite a lot has been teased by now.  The Christmas episode is supposed to have the return of River Song who will not even recognize the Twelfth Doctor:

    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-14/river-song-doesnt-recognise-the-doctor-in-this-years-christmas-special-steven-moffat-reveals

    It seems like a light-hearted enough concept, but I wonder if it will show off a new order of things where the Time Lords are not believed to have existed but are at most legends or myths.  Is it possible that River Song no longer even knows the Doctor can regenerate?

    #47195
    james @jammiedodger

    so im going to be lazy and half arse this all but clara dies on Saturday well my theory shes already dying take a closer look at this weeks when the dr basicly says your turning into a sand monster alshider is suppose to be in the epsiode she dies guess whos in next weeks cast yup ashilder the final two episode are about galifrey being brought back yes the overarching story arc too this sires is the hybrid one im not sure about who the hybrid is but it could possibly be clara considering she is also on the cast for the final episode not sure quite whats going too happen if needed i can back up my sources my number one source is the mirror they’ve ruined this series stupendously also this christmas the dr must watch as river goes around flirting with other guys as she doesn’t recognise the Dr  sorry about my half arsed post but yeah too sum up
    clara dies
    galifrey is being brought back
    river doesnt recognise the dr

    #47197
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @jammiedodger: I think what will be brought back are Gallifreyans, but not in the expected manner.  Just look at this season.   Most of the extraterrestrials are on Earth, and the Zygons and apparently whoever are in Face the Raven are hiding out in contemporary times.

    If nothing else for the show’s convenience and perhaps to reduce costs, it would be better if all the extraterrestrials were Earth-bound and accessible in contemporary times.  Including the Gallifreyans.

    #47198
    james @jammiedodger

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_the_Raven

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_Sent_(Doctor_Who)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Bent_(Doctor_Who)

    on second read there is scope for galifrey not to return but we are seeing the return of it for prehaps the last two episodes

    im sorry ive used wikipedia for this part of my theory but it seems retrupable considering it seems as if they have taken the blurbs or whatever there called of the episodes from an offical site

    #47199
    james @jammiedodger

    also its all but nailed on to be clara that dies next week but too also be the hybrid possibly because she jumped inside the drs timeline and survived ?

    #47200
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @jammiedodger: Well, my personal theory is the hybrid is some sort of adjudicator between the Time Lords and the Daleks.  And it does not exactly sound like the Doctor’s reunion with the Time Lords would be a happy one …  That’s why I have been arguing for a while that eventually the Time Lords must be restrained in some fashion from returning to this universe.  The worst of them will be fallen angels, perhaps almost literally as Weeping Angels.

    #47201
    james @jammiedodger

    im hoping the timelords are brought back if im honest the endless possibilites of storires is quite unthinkable plus i was too young too watch them in the bg era and now you get the odd story here and there but you cant watch the bg era in its entirety 🙁

    #47204
    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @lisa thanks for the link. Fun Fact: the article says the street has a Diagon Alley feel to it, in fact it is diagon Alley, they used the same street to film for both.

    #47208
    lisa @lisa

    @bendubz11

    Yeah it has a nice symmetry to my mind too! So we are at a darker end of the street where
    the Raven hangs out as opposed to the Owls. Birds representing massive mythologies.

    I’d actually love to see Clara morph into the Doctors ‘Patronus’. She would be his guardian
    of deep affinity. They are usually an animal in Harry Potter. I wonder what the Patronus for
    the Doctor might look like?

    #47209
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Have been thinking about the return of River Song in the Christmas special. Also thinking about the statement as reported in the DWM that in “Hell Bent” Moffat “may have changed something in the mythology, something Moffat was quite nervous about doing” #46796

    Now, in “Death in Heaven”, Clara tries to fool the Cybermen that she is, in fact, the Doctor, by giving them a bunch of biographical information, including that the Doctor was married four times, all deceased, and his children and grandchildren are missing, presumed dead. If I am correct, this is the first time that information has been stated on screen. And it is Moffat who is revealing the information. It was also Moffat who had the Doctor and River standing together over the Doctor’s cot in “A Good Man Goes to War” and the body language clearly implied that their child had been in that cot. River leads a life that intersects with, but does not follow the Doctor. River also keeps her own counsel (even from her own mother!) River also leads her own life, and there are presumably long periods when she and the Doctor do not interact. Where’s all this leading?

    How about to the idea that the change in the mythology that Moffat is going to nervously introduce when River re-appears (and remember that River should be dead–she was only an echo when we last saw her) is that it will be revealed that the Doctor and River did have a child, and that his child/children/grandchildren will, in some way, figure in series 10.

    Personally, part of me has always wanted Clara to be that child, but that looks increasingly unlikely. Nor am I really suggesting that Clara will be revealed to be their child (but with Moffat, anything is possible!) Nonetheless, Moffat plants the seeds of future arcs well in advance, and there has, to date, been no follow-through on his scene of River and the Doctor by the cot, and why, one may well ask, would he go to the trouble of having Clara reference his wives, children and grandchildren if not for a reason?

    #47210
    lisa @lisa

    My hunch is that Rigby is being used as bait to get Clara and the Doctor into this
    ‘Trap’ street. I keep looking at Ashildr’s new look. She reminds me of the old
    film noir flicks of the forties. Maybe Mrs. Danvers from Rebecca? A great Hitchcock
    classic. The swirling tattoos on her look like snakes.

    #47211
    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    @blenkinsopthebrave  I just asked the other day about this very thing, the cot! That is why I asked because I wondered if the cot had their child’s name on it, not the doctor or Melody’s.  It always struck me odd the way the doctor reacted to her reveal.  I wanted it to be Clara as well, but as you say, it’s not really all that likely.  I was so excited to see you express these thoughts as it is what has been in my mind as well.

    #47212
    lisa @lisa

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    I like it! I have actually wondered for a while when if ever this might be
    a possibility. They gave Missy a daughter too. So Who nose?

    #47214
    ichabod @ichabod

    @lisa  I’d actually love to see Clara morph into the Doctors ‘Patronus’. She would be his guardian
    of deep affinity. They are usually an animal in Harry Potter. I wonder what the Patronus for
    the Doctor might look like?

    Nice idea — so does a Patronus in Roman belief reflect the attributes (physically and/or otherwise) of the guarded one, or supplement them with the attributes that the guarded one is low on?  If the basis is “deep affinity”, that would suggest the former rather than the latter.

    And I agree that Ashildr in the publicity shots has a newly dark, sleek look that I would say bodes no good, character-wise.

    #47218
    ichabod @ichabod

    @blenkinsopethebrave  it will be revealed that the Doctor and River did have a child, and that his child/children/grandchildren will, in some way, figure in series 10.

    That would certainly be a strong enough development to prevent him from going off alone for a thousand years to mourn the loss of Clara . . . but again, there’s the problem that this would be a Time Lordy child, and he’s been pretty clear about understanding that he needs a mayfly to travel with, not another quasi-immortal with a high, cold perspective.  Or, maybe such a person would be exactly what he would be eager to take on, with the goal of making sure his kid *does* learn from the mayflies (and *not* team up with any Missy-types or descendants)?

    Worrisome as to Soap Opera possibilities, but an interesting prospect anyway.

    #47219
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @ichabod

    I agree. But therre are all sort of ways his children/grandchildren could figure in the mix.At the risk of using too many videos, the following trailer strikes me as something that has the sort of Doctor/grandchild dynamic that might actually work with Capaldi:

    https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=I0hJ7NHDglU

    #47221
    lisa @lisa

    @ichabod

    Both. In terms of what Clara brings to his perspective as well as the possible
    option of the little alien gifts and talents she has been picking up throughout
    her tenure as his companion. So maybe giving him new tools to be a better and/or
    more efficient Doctor? She also has always been part of his reflecting on things
    sometimes making him look in a mirror and/or has been his confessor.
    On the other hand can there also be an inherently evil Patronus? Mo idea?

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