Spoilers (2)

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    lisa @lisa

    mice interview came out today

    Been thinking that we are going to continue to anguish over this Clara situation
    till the very last episode, don’t think she dies. But also think that when she
    says ‘Let me be brave’ in the trailer it maybe because she goes off to try and be
    the Doctor? If he is required elsewhere then she may go off trying to be him? Maybe?

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Thanks so much for that link. Makes me proud to be Australian!

    lisa @lisa

    This version has a teeny tiny wxtra bit or 2

    janetteB @janetteb

    @lisa Thank you from me too for the trailer. Two Aussies on board this series. Must be time for an Aussie set episode. I know of a nice little town with nice historic buildings, some aspiring young actors who would love to be extras, and almost certainly a few monsters lurking around.

    @bendubz11 I had always assumed that Daigon Alley was just a set for some reason but who needs to create sets when there are actual streets like that about. Do you know the location of the street?

    @blenkinsopthebrave  I think you might be onto something there. I keep wondering if the Doctor was going to be shown to be in some way connected to Missy who of course was the Master back then.

    I started re watching Dalek Asylum today and something that always struck me as poor scripting now seems like it might be deliberate. Oswin talks to the Doctor as a human until she is revealed to be a Dalek when she begins to “talk Dalek”.  I thought it was purely written that way because the script demanded it but made no real logical sense. I had forgotten it until Clara was put in the Dalek and could only speak “Dalek”. In Asylum of the Daleks  it may be that she can overcome the speech limitations of her containment for a reason other than to deceive the viewer. Oswin was clearly able to overcome the limitations of the Dalek speech circuits until the Doctor pointed out to her that she was a Dalek.



    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @janetteb I’m beginning to think my source was incorrect, because I can’t find it now, and you are correct that it is just a set in Leavesden studios. Also in the shots we’ve seen it looks more like Knockturn Alley so I am probably incorrect. Sorry guys!

    Anonymous @

    @craig @phaseshift

    look’s  like we’ve got a visiting dickhead in @wangkiky above?

    Japanese? Indonesian? Chinese?


    Anonymous @

    @lisa @janetteb @bendubz11

    I say, the above trailer is nervous making! Is it all the end?

    Will we have no more Clara from this point on flying about?

    I don’t know how I’m gonna handle it: she was with Eleven thru the 50th and now with Twelve – she’s a Svengali -deep under my skin. I’ve gone from not particularly liking her to knowing I’ll miss her like heck!


    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @purofilion: Considering how Missy was taunting the Doctor in Death in Heaven about how a phone call from Clara would force him to run to her, that he’d go to hell and back for her, and that Missy could make the Doctor heel because of this, it would appear Missy has personally constructed Clara’s life so that it would be unbearable for the Doctor to see Clara’s end.  Perhaps that is the point, what Missy and Ashildr have in common, this goal of making Clara’s end as a companion so painful the Doctor will have to reassess whether he can bear to have another human one.

    It will be interesting to see if Moffat tries to get yet another relatively young actress as the next companion or whether he will go in a different direction.

    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @jphamlore I’m not sure how much of this is me just hoping it will happen, and how much I think it will happen, but I think SM might be planning to have CapDoc travel with Luke, we haven’t had a male solo companion in AG Who, nor an alien companion, plus he has high intelligence and would come with K9, so it could help put the show in a different direction than it’s been in a long time.

    Anonymous @

    @purofilion – thanks, @wangkiky‘s post has been removed (and my dyslexic brain certainly had some fun with that username 😉 )

    ichabod @ichabod

    @lisa   can there also be an inherently evil Patronus? No idea?

    That would be, I suppose, not a Patronus but a curse or a demon, wouldn’t it?  Unless the person is himself evil, and so the Patronus enhances that quality?  Or — offsets it?  Interesting.  Where does a Patronus come from?  Does it just appear, or do you go find one, as a shaman finds his or her power animal(s)?

    @blenkinsopthebrave  The video link is to a page full of trailers — which one do you mean?


    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    Watching the trailer, well the second one, it feels to me like Clara is having to walk away from the doctor in danger.  The look on his face is not one I would imagine to be on his face if Clara was in danger of dying, but rather if he was the one sacrificing his life.  She needs to be brave to walk away from that. Just my impression anyway.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    It was supposed to take you to a link to the trailer for the film”Grandma” with Lily Tomlin, which gives a hint about how a Capaldi Doctor/grandchild dynamic might work. Maybe.

    james @jammiedodger

    just to confirm clara 100% dies on Saturday if im wrong ill eat my own hair but yeah clara dies saturday

    james @jammiedodger
    Anonymous @


    well, I shouldn’t have read that.

    Worse: I shouldn’t have read BTL Comments: “all we need do is kill off Moffat now and the show will be fun again”

    Oh, wow. Original.

    Are there that many Moff haters @craig etc…? Or is that the Moff supporters are not loud enough. I don’t remember RTD getting this kind of hate and carry-on?



    Are there that many Moff haters

    No, it just feels like it.

    Anonymous @


    you’re right, I suppose. The amount of criticism he generates is enormous and I wonder whether there’s a spill off into the actors too.

    Never have  I heard so much nastiness directed at the Doctor’s companion, either. I think Clara’s been a pivotal companion insofar as she’s been part of the various ‘experiments’ which Moffat and his writers have tried and which have worked, by and large.

    Involved in the 50th, she was excellent working with Hurt and Tennant -all new stuff and no doubt nerve wracking. I’d never heard of her before Dr Who and possibly she was inexperienced but I thought her Clara Dalek was superbly done and she appeared so fresh  -and not a moaner. I loved Amy but boy, as  a character, did she moan excessively. I was happy (I shouldn’t say that) when it was time for her to be put to rest: Rory, I felt, was more subtle and less ‘in your face or involved’ and I liked that (but make no mistake I enjoyed Amy immensely)

    Clara has been the Impossible chic, the one who talks with the new Missy, lost her boyfriend to a death (that’s a thing thing for Who) and now, this particular event of her leaving. Whilst I read the spoilers, I guess I shouldn’t have read them all: being spoiled is one thing but being told, outright, exactly what will happen in next week’s episode, is annoying and totally different (still, I can only blame myself).

    But yes, I feel Coleman and Moffat have been treated quite harshly -the BTL comments re Clara are mostly “glad she’s going….hated her” with vicious language. And really, I don’t know what garners that….no one specifically states what they ‘hate’ in particular. Oh well, there is this relatively safe haven here and thank god for it.

    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    I have read other forums and it is seriously depressing and disillusioning!  There are just some people, who no matter what the episode is just hate it and don’t expand besides saying it’s pants. Which by the way what the heck is pants? Why are they bad?  They complain about Moffat and want him gone yesterday.  It is so negative that I just can’t bear it.  The worst for me personally is the Clara haters, not they don’t like her they hate her and want her to die horribly, also yesterday!!  I have grown to love Clara and while I don’t expect everyone to feel the same I just can’t figure out right hatred for a fictional character on a tv show.  Sometimes I wonder if it’s really just trolls or there are people out there who continue to watch a show that they no longer enjoy and then spread the misery to those who do.  I don’t respond to the negativity, because then they accuse you of trying to stifle their opinion.  So ya @purofilion it’s depressing sometimes to say the least.

    janetteB @janetteb


    I just can’t figure out right hatred for a fictional character on a tv show

    It baffles me too. But it isn’t just a figure on a TV show. They are directing that hatred at the person behind that figure be it Jenna Coleman or Moffat and that is what I find most offensive. Often when I did read BTL comments on the Guardian I used to cringe hoping that S.M, RTD or the actor was not reading because it must be soul crushing after putting so much personal energy into creating something and making it the best that you can.

    @Purofilion Yes RTD did cop a lot of bile but I do think it has got worse. Keyboard warfare is a spreading like cancer. I also wonder how much of it is just pure trolling, how much a concerted attack on anything BBC for political reasons and how much is just evidence of human nature at its worst.

    I looked at the article then closed it. Like you PUro I like spoilers that add to the mystery, that give clues which enrich the puzzle, not the kind that outright just say what is going to happen. But it is a source that it known to be unreliable so I will wait until Sunday to find out however I will have tissues to hand.



    ichabod @ichabod

    @janetteb  I’m not so sure that the spoilers are right.  In a comments section on the DWTV site, one of the discussion moderators, who apparently has seen the next two eps and talked to sources about the last one, goes so far as to say that Face the Raven, Heaven Sent, and Hell Bent are a single long sequence, so a death could be set up in Raven, but completed later on.

    Or not.  DWTV has much better chatter about all this than those newspaper sites, and better articles for people to comment on, IMO.  That’s a good alternative to here, for those looking for more conversation.  It’s nowhere near so nastily show-offish as the BTL bile-fest.


    ichabod @ichabod

    @janetteb  I’m not so sure that the spoilers are right.  In a comments section on the DWTV site, one of the discussion moderators, who apparently has seen the next two eps and talked to sources about the last one, goes so far as to say that Face the Raven, Heaven Sent, and Hell Bent are a single long sequence, so a death could be set up in Raven, but completed later on in some way.  Moffat says it’s “shocking, terrifying, and surprising, in that order.”  And there’s room for all that, in a 3-episode story.

    DWTV has much better chatter about all this than those newspaper sites, and better articles for people to comment on, IMO.  That’s a good alternative to here, for those looking for more conversation.  It can be more spoilery, but it’s nowhere near so nastily show-offish as the relentless BTL bile-fest.


    Anonymous @

    @carrieanne @janetteb

    quite right: it is keyboard warfare without sense or rhyme with people whining and wanting other people to notice you and say “hey I like that.’

    Most people are stupid. I shouldn’t say that or believe it, but I do. Of course, where a lot of things are concerned, I’m pretty stupid too. I suppose, though, that I say, “heck, I just didn’t get that, or it wasn’t for me” whereas those on other sites say “it was shit. I hated it and therefore it was dumb.”

    Maybe there’s a great element of insecurity there so they may mean to say “I am shite, therefore I hate it and I’m dumb.”

    That would be closer to their truth. Still, one could spend hours cogitating over their nonsense. I was watching some silly movie on yourube and made the mistake of going BLT where some people were seriously debating how Obama was actually the Devil and Trump was going to be the Messiah. This was not a joke.

    So: people are stupid and a lot of them show up like or eye boogers all over the net where they meet other eye boogers and turn into sandmen, stupidly wobbling about groaning; with their huge gaping mouths and 3 fingered hands (1 big thumb though)  🙂

    Best to never go BTL: I’ve made a decision to avoid that because it’s poison. Here, though (generally) we don’t have that. People are kind, witty and analytical and if we have even one whiff of a hater who turns up here for their first post to simply complain, I admit I’m not patient, I put them in my place because, really, they’re stirrers and it’s best they realise there’s nothing here to stir!

    yes: pants. I’ve never ever understood that. It was Julie ? -the producer of Who back in 2006 who used this expression on a DVD extra the first time (that I’d heard it anyway) -it’s kind of annoying . People wear pants. I think this is a good thing. If something is ‘pants’…hmmm. I don’t get the problem. 🙂

    People may be simply jealous of Coleman: a young, attractive, petite woman not afraid to speak her mind. I imagine people liked Donna too because she was ‘more’ real (whatever that is) -she was a more ‘normal’ size 14, a woman in her late ’30s (who looked closer to her late 40s -in my opinion) and who didn’t mind her Ps and Qs -though differently to Clara. I found her very rough actually. It probably took 6 episodes before I could even watch her!

    But there’s always a soft spot for Doctor Donna in our house. I liked her “oi” just as much as when she awkwardly tried to comfort a dying Ood in the snow (that was a terrifically scripted moment). I believe comedy actors cover emotional drama very well. Although I recall Joss Whedon pointing that out, I’d never consciously been aware of that talent.


    Anonymous @

    @carrieanne @ichabod and @janetteb

    In my post #47264 I said “the impossible chic” -when I meant ‘chick’ and later over Dan’s death – I meant to say that’s a new thing for Who (concerning the death of a boyfriend -not counting Rory’s mean deaths!) not “a thing thing.”

    Cripes and I was talking about stupid.

    One gets bitten in d’foot.

    Hilarious 🙂

    Well, personally I will watch the next episode first thing come Sunday morning in Oz because of the necessity of tissues and because Boy Ilion isn’t too happy when I start crying over a TV show: it’s all “there a kids in Africa without food Mum. Cry over them”

    He’s 14. He’s at that stage now. No idea where it came from though I suspect Paris hit him emotionally more than I’d assumed. That’s a good thing. In Oz it’s easier to ignore the other side of the world sometimes. Shopping goes on as normal. We worry about our first world problems such as the electricity not working and the modem cutting out. Anyway, this is blaringly off topic.

    I’ll shut myself off.

    Anonymous @

    I suspect that now  Clara will be ‘killed off’ perhaps that darkness will come to the fore but at the same time those who don’t like these experiments will be glad of Clara’s demise -so everyone will be happy!

    Somewhat pathetic. But there you have it.

    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    @purofilion We had one of those first world problems the other day, the power went out and my girls said well what do we do now? When I cry over a TV show it’s all you know it’s just a tv show Carrie.  But I say if they’re doing it right, then crying is definitely going to happen for me.  I get wrapped up in the story and for that moment they make me believe the pain.  As for Clara, I am still skeptical that she will die in Face the Raven.  I read that Mirror article a long time ago, but as it only quotes an insider I took it with a grain of salt.  I’ve said before there are worse things than death for a companion and for the doctor as well.  Could it still happen, of course but it was always the glaring possibility the show has foreshadowed.  This is probably called denial, lol, but I don’t care, anything is still possible until we see it. I’m having trouble with this week going fast enough.  I tried to make  yesterday Thursday, I’m in the U.S. and then I told my brother that I couldn’t wait for Tomorrow to watch Doctor Who, which of course was still a day off of when I actually thought I was.  Timey-wimey life going on apparently. But you know however Clara exits, we’re still losing her, I just want her to have a fabulous story  to wrap up her tenure with the Doctor.

    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    Maybe it’s just wishful thinking but it is jarring to me that Face The Raven does seem to have so many people that know spoilers, when none of the other episodes have. It’s probably just because it’s a big spoiler so everybody who knows it is being a dick and publicising it, but to me it stinks of false information being fed to the media so that what actually happens is even more shocking (ie it being CapDoc not Clara).

    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    Oh and @purofilion I also hate to say people are stupid, but sometimes you just have to wonder what else it could be, except for trolling pure and simple.  However when you read it enough and for the love of all that is holy, the people who believe Obama to be the anti-Christ actually make my head want to explode. Donald Trump as the savior, ummmmmmm that is a new one to me, and not even a remotely believable plot line, imo, of course.  I think those type of posters actually let other’s think for them, then let paranoia set in and then regurgitate what they’ve been told to think.  I come to this forum because I don’t have anyone right now to discuss Who with in my life, my stepdaughter loves Dr Who, but this is her first semester of college so she hasn’t watched any but the first ep of the season.  We’re going to binge watch the season when she comes for Christmas. Oh and I tell her nothing spoilery at all, that wouldn’t be fair.  Here, I feel real discussion happening rather than a blanket statement of what crap they think the episode was or worst episode of who ever, though I haven’t personally felt any of them to be “pants” lol.  I may be easily entertained but I don’t care, I love Doctor Who.

    nerys @nerys

    What does “pants” even mean? (I know the general meaning. I mean in context with some sort of criticism.) Is it that you drop your pants to take a poo? Underpants? What?

    Mersey @mersey

    @carrieanne @purofilion

    I was Clara hater but I never wished her to die. Why I hated her? Partly because of these ‘experiments’ which @purofilion mentioned. I didn’t understand what kind of character she was. Who exactly she was. She didn’t act as a regular ‘useless’ 😉 human companion (I know that Doctor had really brilliant companions with great skills). She did things which no modern companion had ever done (some people say that we will get some explanation of her abilities but I doubt it). Because of that it was really hard for me to identify with her. And I was angy about that. But this season Clara has grown on me and now I have hope against all hope that she will somehow survive and all these trailers and interviews are only a smokescreen like ‘Clara Oswald never existed’.

    nerys @nerys

    I never “hated” Clara. In fact, I struggle to think of any fictional TV/film character I have hated and can’t come up with one. I did realize that if I knew her in real life, Clara would be someone who’d probably annoy me. But I also understand that TV characters tend to be written very differently from the way most of us are in real life. So I have always had a problem when people say they “hate” thus-and-such character on TV.

    With Clara, I did find the character underutilized early on (especially after the great introduction we got to Oswin in “Asylum of the Daleks”). In the beginning Clara seemed like an anemic character, by comparison. But I felt she really came into her own during Season 8, and I have enjoyed her even more this season, in part because of the knowledge that this will be her last. So the suspense and anticipation of seeing how it will be resolved lends even more weight to this season’s episodes.

    janetteB @janetteb

    When I was a teenager there was one fictional character I hated in a favourite book and the BBC adaptation. Ironically in the TV series he was played by Colin Baker. Needless to say I was less than happy when he was cast as the Doctor a few years later. I have mellowed a lot since then. Now it is only certain politicians and online trolls that I might on occasion claim to hate. Those pollies in question were ones whom I have some experience with from my days of working on functions and saw just how arrogant they were, having to stand and listen politely while they said the most offensive things, being “off camera” at the time. I didn’t even hate cringeworthy “Tony” because hate is a very emotive feeling. I guess Dr Who does arouse a passionate response from viewers because it is so loved. People are inclined to feel very strongly about it a testament to just how special Dr Who is, even if sometimes those responses are deeply negative.



    spacedmunkee @spacedmunkee

    I posted a while back that I think the confession dial is a bootstrap paradox. Now with all the talk about Clara’s demise, I am wondering of the confession dial is hers. Given previous storylines where Clara impersonates the Doctor, I wouldn’t put it past them to do the same here.

    Anonymous @

    @spacedmunkee you’re theorising is marvellous but let’s get back to the real issue that @nerys and I are wondering about: why is the word ‘pants’ used in the negative. Is it scatological at all?

    Well, I’d suppose so.

    Or, conveniently, are pants ugly things in general?

    I agree, nerys, ‘hating’ is such a strong word. Long ago when Boy Ilion was little he picked up that word from childcare and I so we learned to say “dislike”. It’s quite funny. A friend is over: “Do you like this movie much?”

    Boy: “no, I dislike it a real lot”.

    Friend: “you twit”.

    Still, bully for him. Hating is ugly. I haven’t hated a companion  – I was little ticked off at times but it never lasted. Even some of the oddest characters in Farscape etc I always had a soft spot for.

    Anonymous @

    @janetteb also that post above was for you!! 🙂

    Anonymous @

    @carrieanne @bendubz11

    I also, Carrie, have only the Boy (who is 14 and not exactly mad over Who -enjoys it and goes “oh what’s the time?” and “can I read some posts?”). But he’s busy with RL and not telly and that’s good. I was about 14 when I stopped watching regular telly too. But then at 14, Who was g0ing thru a ‘thing’…. 🙂

    Indeed, a good cry over a script is wonderful. I cried during Buffy when it wasn’t sad -simply when it was a happy episode but so damn good  – I think I was crying over the lack of good telly (on a lot of channels here, anyway) as well as being mad I’d actually scorned it when it first came out.

    I also thick Mr Bendz that the dicking about on other sites saying “this, THIS is going to happen’ is probably mad -I read it recently and not when it first came out. Today I actually read the date it was published and thought “wha?”

    So, who really knows??

    I guess we will very shortly. Some sooner than others. Though I’m thinking of hanging about till the midnight Watch, as it were. The Order of the Watch. Or the Phoenix…the Watch, no, that’s Omen 111 (gawd that was terrible).

    Right back on topic, I think that it doesn’t look as if Clara is going to her death -I get the impression as did Blue that she has to pass a ‘rite’ -a ritual -maybe save Rigsy? There really is very little to go on.

    And we have Raven as Clara’s familial name, no? It’s not so awful after all…

    We need to connect the name with Clara somehow!

    spacedmunkee @spacedmunkee

    @purofilion @nerys

    Heh! All the important issues covered here 😉

    Today’s the first time I’ve heard “pants” used in that context.  Is it a British thing?

    I heard Rowan Atkinson (I think) talking once about language in comedy and that using the word “underpants” is inherently more funny than using the word “underwear”.


    Anonymous @


    wanky pants put it back.


    Does he not know no-one will ever buy his crappy flooring??

    Grr/ This stuff must annoy you endlessly.

    Kindest, Puro

    Anonymous @


    Grr/ This stuff must annoy you endlessly.

    Not at all, any excuse to demonstrate the power of the delete button fills me with devilish delight 🙂

    @wangkiky – take the hint, your posts about flooring aren’t welcome so you have a choice – delete your account or we’ll do it for you.


    Anonymous @


    the first time I read it, I’m sure you wrote “your posts aren’t flooring anyone”

    spacedmunkee @spacedmunkee

    @purofilion @nerys

    Now that I have looked up the meaning of Scatological 🙂 yes that would make sense to me, particularly if it was actually of British origin. It sort of fits in with the undergraduate humour that I grew up watching with shows like The Young Ones, Goodies, Blackadder etc etc. No biting satire on the existing socio and/or political landscape of the time was complete without a poo, bum or fart joke

    lisa @lisa

    Is there anyone here that doesn’t think Clara will sacrifice herself to the Raven tomorrow?

    Mersey @mersey

    I looked at Wikipedia to check the cast of three last episodes and there were additional informations (spoilers which you probably already know) and I was really, really angry at first, but now I’m so excited and I just want to tell someone how excited I’m.

    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @lisa I don’t think it will be Clara, i think it will be CapDoc

    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    I don’t know what pants is either, I read it somewhere else.  The episode was pants!  So I assumed they didn’t like it, but why the deuce is pants a bad thing?  Maybe boring as pants?  Oh remember Rory in the Power of Three he said they showed up with him in his pants, which he was in his underpants.  But still I happen to like my underpants so still not sure why it’s bad. Except as it is close to the bum?  Maybe they meant boring, like pants aren’t exactly an exciting thing?  I was hoping you guys could tell me lol.

    lisa @lisa



    I have visited the Urban Dictionary on numerous occasions. 🙂

    Anonymous @


    I have no frickin idea

    Mersey @mersey

    @purofilion @lisa @carrieanne I have found in my dictionary that pants is a synonym for bloomers (?).

    lisa @lisa

    This is some one’s very interesting video interpretation.

    Anonymous @


    I thought that was for real.

    Still my beating heart!

    it was very good though. It took me until I saw all the regen energy creeping 0ut of Donna’s eyes to realise that this wasn’t an actual ‘thing’!

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