Spoilers (3)

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This topic contains 1,031 replies, has 45 voices, and was last updated by  Craig 2 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #60354
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed — there is quite a stonking difference in size between them, isn’t there. As the 10th Doctor might say, ‘compensating for something’?

    #60369
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #60379
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    ‘I’m not allowed to answer that…’  ‘I’m busy doing other things…’ ???

    Phoebe Waller-Bridge on Newsnight

    #60380
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed — PWB would be an excellent choice I think but I somehow can’t see it. What with Fleabag S2 and the Han Solo movie (although filming for that will be done soon, I guess). But that was a rather lukewarm denial it has to be said.

    But she’d definitely be one of my personal top choices.

    #60382
    janetteB @janetteb

    Looks interesting and definitely a possibility from looking at her IMDB page. She has what I suspect is the essential criteria; has been in Broadchurch. Only think I have watched from that list is Blandings, which I think I still have somewhere, not really sure until now why I kept it but might now re-watch that particular episode. Also there are no future projects listed. She is a good age for the role. I groaned when Bill said, “my age” because I think that is too young for an actor playing the Doctor.

    cheers
    Janette

    #60384
    Nick @nick

    Her name has cropped up in the bookies favourites list for quite a while. Apart from Broadchurch series 2 (where I vaguely remember her) I have caught Fleabag, I found that to be funny in a awkward slightly cringeworthy way. Fleabag is actually an adult life commentary style comedy. It was very well received from a critical standpoint as well.

    #60395
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    I’m not sure this even counts as spoiler and is rather mere speculation, but Stuart Heritage on The Graun discussing the possibility of Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Much as it pains me to say it, I think he’s probably spot on.

    #60396
    Nick @nick

    @jimthefish

    I read that too. Her odds shortened for me the moment that @janetteb mentioned Broadchurch as Chibnall does seem to like using actor’s he’s worked with before. Given the quite long gap until S11 filming starts, I guess that could help given her immediate commitments.

    #60397
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @Nick–

    It looks like her agent has now issued a categorical denial (suggestive of a story behind that in itself, although maybe she’s sick of being inundated by calls and tweets in the past 24 hours) so it looks like we can put that one to bed. A pity. She would have been good.

    But I’m afraid I think we’re now deep in ‘who’s the next Doc’ silly season, which is always deeply tiresome. It makes me wish they would just go ahead and announce it and save us the usual ‘it’s Ben Wishaw/it’s Tilda Swinton/it’s Olivia Colman/it’s Miranda Hart’ nonsense….

    #60398
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish and @nick

    I’d say she’s at the very least been seen for a Doctor Who role, or been asked to consider a Doctor Who role, because ‘I can’t talk about that’ is indeed a dead giveaway that there have been discussions about something Doctor Who related.

    You can only not talk about something if you’ve been talking about it… 😀

    From an acting point of view, being either the Doctor or the Companion has recently turned into a career boost. Karen Gillan’s got a recurring role in the Marvel franchise, Matt Smith is the male lead in The Crown, Jenna Coleman is Queen Victoria. The Star Wars role is supposed to be ‘ensemble’, and Fleabag is ‘cult success’ – if you’re trying to make the leap from ‘ensemble’ to ‘lead’, playing the Doctor would definitely be something to consider. Yes, her career is busy and successful – but pull off the First Official Female Doctor and you move into the UK A list.

    Dunno, myself. She may be unable to talk about it because she turned it down. But it would certainly explain the Chibnall interview where he said that he went in expecting the BBC to want to discuss … something … only to find that they were completely on-board with the suggestion.

    [Edit: well, the agency denial is pretty clear. I wonder if she did turn it down?]

    #60400
    Nick @nick

    @bluesqueakpip @jimthefish

    If they’ve agreed to keep it secret until a specific date, wouldnt the agent have to deny it anyway ? Given what newsnight did with the guy in Lucifer earlier this year, I guess they’re trolling based on internal BBC gossip.

    #60401
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @nick

    They flatly confirmed that she’s not the ‘next’ Doctor Who. So unless there’s some kind of ‘David Bradley is the ‘next’ Doctor Who’ thing going on, she’s not the Doctor straight after Peter Capaldi.

    #60402
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Though I would laugh my socks off if they’ve decided to make the ‘Thirteenth’ Doctor a one-episode accident prone comedy special. That might explain all the Kris Marshall rumours. 😀

    #60403
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @nick and @bluesqueakpip–

    They tend not to do categorical denials as it doesn’t really look good to be remembered as utter liars further down the line. If it had been true I’d imagine they’d have just kept their heads down until … whenever.

    Possibly Pip’s idea that she was offered the role and turned it down has a bit of credence. Who knows, maybe she’s going to have a guest role at some point but I think she’s just too busy — I suspect if her role in Han Solo ends up being a recurring one, that would be one she’d be unwilling to screw up. And as well as Fleabag, doesn’t she also have some spy movie in the works too? And it’s not just the year’s filming, there’s also all the publicity duties too. For some reason, I just can’t see her on the convention circuit, although I guess with Solo she’s going to be facing that anyway.

    And is it too cynical to suggest that Ian Katz has learned that having a cheeky bit of Who speculation on his ailing show helps boost its profile no end?

    #60405
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish, @bluesqueakpip, @nick

    I do wish the BBC would just make an announcement and put everybody out of their misery. To be honest, I find the whole speculation game, which seems, in the main, to be inflicted on us by newspapers of such lofty journalistic standards as the Mail and the Sun (god help us) really quite tedious.

    There. Got that off my chest. Now I will try and go back to being whimsical and flippant…

    #60406
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    What @blenkinsopthebrave said…

    #60407
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish, @bluesqueakpip, @nick,

    I should have added that you have all made excellent points, as always. My irritation is with the Mail, the Sun, and their ilk. And perhaps the BBC as well.

    #60421
    janetteB @janetteb

    Yes, what @blenkinsopthebrave said. Even the Guardian is not above a little “next Doctor rumours” clickbait.

    @bluesqueakpip I can see Moffat squeezing in an extra regeneration. He does tend to reuse ideas and there would be a certain symmetry if his final story had echoes of his first, which is of course “A Curse of Fatal Death”. I can picture him playing fast and loose with fans’ expectations; “this is the next Doctor, but only for this episode the actual next Doctor is ???”

    Cheers
    Janette

    #60473
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    (I think filming actually wraps on the 11th though…….?!)

    #60474
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    #60475
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed–

    And if it is indeed all in the can — and s11 does not start filming until the new year — then it looks as if they might well get away with a surprise new Doc at Chrimbo….

    #60477
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish

    Bonkers theory 1: It’s someone with a cast-iron excuse for being on set, such as a present/former companion.

    Bonkers theory 2: It’s David Bradley (who has worked with Chris Chibnall), possibly for a short run.

    Bonkers theory 3: They’re going to delay filming the new Doctor as long as possible, and simply CGI the new actor’s face onto Peter Capaldi.

    #60478
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip–

    Bonkers theory 1: It’s someone with a cast-iron excuse for being on set, such as a present/former companion.

    Yep, I could be on board with that. Although I think we could definitely rule out Pearl though, now that the door has clearly been left open for her return. Maybe, just maybe, Michelle Gomez might still be in the running though.

    Bonkers theory 2: It’s David Bradley (who has worked with Chris Chibnall), possibly for a short run.

    Now that would be great. But can’t see the Beeb responding to complaints about Capaldi’s maturity with someone even older. (Although part of me thinks that they should.)

    Bonkers theory 3: They’re going to delay filming the new Doctor as long as possible, and simply CGI the new actor’s face onto Peter Capaldi.

    Great idea. They’re going to stick a Capaldi wig on the new Doctor and do a deliberate homage to the Baker>McCoy regeneration. Now, that would be daring.

    #60542
    RorySmith @rorysmith

    Olivia Coleman=Doctor

    David Tennant =Master

    They solve a kid’s murder on Adipose 3

    #60557
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    Interesting tidbit. Even Rachel Talalay doesn’t know who the next Doctor is. I suppose these days you don’t really need the actors anywhere near each other. Or maybe it’s a trick and there is no ‘next’ Doctor…

    #60559
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Maybe the reason they have yet to announce the new Doctor is that they aren’t going to before the Xmas special due to the casting really being controversial i.e. It is a gender switch or even a non Caucasian. Now personally I have no issue with the Doctor being female or non Caucasian but unfortunately there are idiots out there that will or would. Though in my opinion delaying the announcement of the casting if for this reason will make the situation worse.

    #60560
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @devilishrobby I’m afraid I don’t agree. If they announced a “controversial” casting now, there would be 5 months of carping before what should be a glorious send-off for Capaldi, and all the focus would be on the new “controversial” Doctor and not Capaldi’s farewell. I think he deserves a strong and enjoyable goodbye, not just everyone complaining about how the next one won’t be as good, will drive viewers away, or people getting excited that he’s going because it’s gonna be so much better with Idris Elba, can’t wait etc.

    Whoever they cast, people will complain, others will be pleased. I don’t want what I think @jimthefish described as “another floppy haired young man”. I’d prefer something different. But I can see why many would like another young, attractive Doctor and I can see why it might help the ratings.

    On the whole I think they are right to keep it a secret until the end of the Xmas special if they can. Then we’ll only have 5 months of carping until the next series starts 🙂

    I actually think they may not even introduce the next Doctor in the Xmas special. They could easily wait until the first episode of the new series. That would be a bit different.

    It’s getting so bad that if it was me, I’d shoot it weeks apart in a studio in the middle of the night, with everyone arriving in blacked-out limos and wearing parkas with the hoods up, with the new Doctor doing his or her bit just one day before transmission.

    #60561
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @craig  I agree with  much of what you said I properly just didn’t express my feeling on the matter very well. In the main I would also be pleased if they manage to keep the identity of the new Doctor “secret” until the airing of the Xmas special as it would add to the sense of expectation for the episode. Don’t know what the practicalities of filming the changeover of identies to the new Doctor so close to the airing , especially with all the FX involved nowadays. You’re properly right about the Carper’s well “carping” about the choice of casting whenever it happens and as long as the “actor” is good at his/her job and is capable pulling off the role it shouldn’t matter as over the years the role has been played in many ways each doctor has bought different aspects to the role. I can’t say that I have hated any actor who has played the role just that some have played him with more success than other.

    #60562
    Nick @nick

    @craig

    If they  werent going to show the next Doctor close to the end of the Christmas special then Moff wouldnt have talked about Chibnall writing the last few scenes would he ? I’d rather hope they keep it secret until the Christmas special. It could be done of nothing other than a face was the closing shot and perhaps a few words. Either way if there isnt a definitive leak then I agree all it would need would be a small green screen studio (less for just a face) a couple of days earlier.

    How young is young though ? I suppose the average has been between 35 and 45, so young would be someone around 30 ? In any case, I’d prefer Chibnall to cast an actor who can do something interesting and unusual with the character regardless of age, gender or skin colour, although I also think its well past the point where gender or skin colour should be a talking point at all. Casting a safe choice (which Kris M would appear to be) would be a mistake.

    #60563
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @nick From what I hear Chibnall has been involved in the whole final episode. But who knows what that means? He could be writing in a new companion before regeneration so he’s not starting from scratch. I know Moffat has said he felt a lot of pressure having to introduce a new Doctor and companion in his first episode as showrunner. Maybe he wants to save Chibnall from at least one of those.

    We’re told this will be an unusual regeneration. I think it would be great at the end for Capaldi to maybe just sit down and say something like “It’s time to go”, his face lights up, we cut to black and then there’s some text that says “The new Doctor will return in April”.

    #60564
    MissRori @missrori

    @craig I like your thinking.  Too often pop culture these days isn’t living in the moment; it’s all teaser this and preview that.  Let’s enjoy what we have in the here and now, and anticipate things one at a time.  😉

    #60565
    Nick @nick

    @craig

    I wouldn’t particularly mind if they did something along those lines (except another 8 month wait would be quite galling). I don’t think they will do that though. Chibnall wouldn’t need to be involved much at all.

    If Chibnall has co-written the Christmas special then I would sought of expect the next Doctor to feature in a significant proportion of the episode (a 3 Doctor story), which would be an interesting thing to do (in fact I suggest it ought to be done at least once). However, I saw the Moff interview where he said that he and Chris had yet to meet face to face. You can do alot by email/telephone, but that suggests more of Moff keeping Chris updated and Chris telling Moff how he’d like to portray the last few minutes of the story.

    Right now, the unusual elements of the regen seem to be a) uncertainty over when/why it started, b) mirroring D1 and c) it seems to be about both Doc’s needing to be persuaded to go [and perhaps a link to the 50th special to explain how D13 got involved in saving Gallifrey]. Resolving all that and fitting in whatever action scene’s Moff was talking about in the last after-show episodes seems challenge enough for now !

    Waiting is the only real problem !

    #60566
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @missrori @nick Cheers.

    I can’t help thinking about the fact that Moffat wanted this series to be almost like a series for new viewers, hence “The Pilot”. But regeneration has not been addressed properly at all. Which is why I like @blenkinsopthebrave‘s suggestion of the Doctor’s version of “It’s a Wonderful Life” for Xmas.

    If CapaldiDoc ends up as “Clarence”, showing Doc 1 what he has done with his life, via all his regenerations (and I really hope they try that – or the other way round but that might be weird), then both can come to terms with changing, seeing it as something good and progressive, as can any new viewers.

    #60567
    Nick @nick

    @craig

    🙂 That is a fantastic concept that I’d love to see. Maybe D14 showing both of them though, given that they both seem to be reluctant.

    #60568
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

     

    Since we are up for a multiple Doctor story at Christmas, it raises the prospect that the Capaldi Doctor could meet, or at least see–before regeneration–not only his immediate successor, but a number of future Doctors. After all, previous multiple Doctor stories are based on that premise that it is possible for a Doctor to see and interact with, a future Doctor.

    However, in previous multiple Doctor stories, there tends to be an assumption that the “current” Doctor is seeing one of his past iterations. But it is just as easy to shift the focus and tell the story of the past Doctor seeing a Doctor who he (the past Doctor) has not yet become.

    Up till now, if a “current” Doctor interacts with another Doctor, it is from his past, and he (the current Doctor) has never been aware of his future version before regeneration. So past Doctors who appear in a multiple Doctor  story only do it after they have left the show.  But why couldn’t the PC Doctor–before he regenerates– interact with, or at least be aware of, a Doctor from his future?

    #60569
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @craig, @nick

    Bizarre. We are all thinking the same thing at the same time. I did not see your messages as I was typing mine.

    So yes, perhaps it could work.

    #60570
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @nick I think it would be better for CapaldiDoc to teach himself his own life lesson, from a dramatic/storytelling point of view. I’m excited to see what they do.

    #60571
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @blenkinsopthebrave @nick One can only wonder if there is something in the air! My mother thinks she’s a bit psychic, and I sometimes think I’ve inherited it. Or we’re all just as bonkers as each other.

    #60573
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @craig, @nick

    You know what the say when two people are thinking the same thing at the same time…

    It’s just that I thought I should let you know that I am spoken for…

    Ahem…

    #60574
    Nick @nick

    @blenkinsopthebrave @craig

    I love this idea. I hope Moff had it originally and that you were both channeling him tonight.

    #60575
    winston @winston

    @craig @nick @blenkinsopthebrave    I don’t know if your Christmas show theory is right but it is something I would love to see! I suspect it will be something like that ,ending with 12 joining 1 to 11 to save  Gallifrey  from destruction.

    On the topic of the next Doctor , I had no idea who the 10th or 11th Doctor would be until they regenerated because at the time I had no internet and waited until my son got me the dvds and the show is not news in Canada. It was a surprise each time with no stressing in between about whether the new doctor would be young or old or female etc. I am not sure if it is better to know or not know but it is a lot less stressful.

    #60583
    ichabod @ichabod

    @craig   If they announced a “controversial” casting now, there would be 5 months of carping before what should be a glorious send-off for Capaldi, and all the focus would be on the new “controversial” Doctor and not Capaldi’s farewell.

    I hadn’t thought of that, but it’s a fair point.  Gawd, the logistics of this show — !!!!!  It’s a wonder, sometimes, that anybody survives a long immersion in making it.

     

    #60588
    Anonymous @

    I once watched a show from England  with a bunch of lawyers -or barristers in it. I loved the actors. I really liked Maxine Peake: she is well loved by RTD -not that this is relevant to the new guy. I think she’d make a good Doctor. I know many people on youtube say Tilda Swinton (I have that spelling wrong I’m sure) or that Idris Elba guy which @jimthefish may have mentioned. Everyone is all “yeah, Idris would be cool” -I really don’t know. I saw one series of Luther and also some interviews about his band. The guy wears waaay too much chain for me! Also, I still don’t know him enough. But not knowing the actor would be a good thing. I didn’t know Smith or Capaldi although others knew him from that politics show? I like Kris Marshall. I know some people don’t but I think he’s pretty good.

    Thank you.

    Thane

    #60589
    Anonymous @

    oops.

    Sorry, that was @craig who said the bit about “Idris Elba” etc. Which is something I have read or seen. Endless specs about who and why 🙂

    #60591
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @craig, @nick @blenkinsopthebrave et al–

    Loving those ideas, though the idea that 12 will meet 13 in the Christmas spesh (an idea I really, really like) would seem to suggest that Rachel Talalay is being a lying liar when she says she has no idea who 13 is. That’s not beyond the realms of possibility, of course and SM himself has set something of a precedent on that score.

    I wonder if it’s not more likely that we won’t see 13 at all at Christmas and the introduction of a previous Doctor(s) is to offset any viewer impatience for them ‘to get on with’ the regeneration.

    But I doubt we’ll learn anything more solid now. They’ve either managed to pull off filming it without any leaks or they’re holding off doing the filming until the last minute. I’m no expert, but I don’t think the actual CGI and postproduction of a regeneration would actually be that complex if they keep the set-up simple and avoid exploding TARDISes etc.

    I think @craig‘s right though and that the priority now seems clearly to keep the regeneration a secret, partly because as Craig says they don’t want it to overshadow Capaldi’s final months on the show and partly because a surprise Doctor will generate some juicy headlines and viewer interest for Christmas Day.

    The only thing that could stuff it up now, aside from a leak and anyone who leaked this, I suspect, would be looking at a firing, is if they have to start filming s11 before Christmas and falls foul of cameraphone arsery….

    #60593
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish

    You could certainly green-screen the actor (m or f) that Peter Capaldi is regenerating into. Anyone seen the Who team near high-security MOD bases lately? Though it doesn’t have to have been done now; I recall that they were finishing off the CGI for the first part of the Hobbit hours before the Auckland Premiere.

    Regarding Capaldi Doc meeting his future self – we’ve already done that, in the 50th. The Curator is very probably a retired Doctor, revisiting a familiar face. 🙂 So a ‘future’ Doctor doesn’t have to be the next Doctor, if you see what I mean.

    Rachel Talalay may simply mean that they are going to do the regeneration scene as close as possible to broadcast date – and if the next Doctor wasn’t in her shooting schedule, she has no ‘need-to-know’.

    #60594
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip–

    Rachel Talalay may simply mean that they are going to do the regeneration scene as close as possible to broadcast date – and if the next Doctor wasn’t in her shooting schedule, she has no ‘need-to-know’.

    No, I get that. And if the regeneration is indeed something like the final scene of the special then she may not even be involved at all. But if, as mooted above, the 13th Doc plays an integral part of the story of the special then I think we have to assume that Rachel is, um, telling a few porkies. But I’m inclined to believe her.

    The problem with meeting a future Doctor, to me, is that it locks future showrunners into accommodating them at some point (let’s call it Valeyard Syndrome). Not beyond the realms of possibility, of course but I’m not sure SM would want to inflict that on one of his successors. You can see with The Curator that he kept it suitably vague, presumably so that showrunners don’t have to accommodate an incarnation that looks and sounds a bit like Tom Baker in the next 50 odd years.

    #60595
    janetteB @janetteb

    I have always wanted a story where the doctor meets a future self and given that he will have many, many more regenerations it is not a burden for future show runners.

    I am now hoping that we don’t find out who the next Doctor is until Christmas. I have never been a fan of the prospect of a surprise regeneration but knowing it is happening is sufficient. Also I now favour not having any preconceived ideas about the new actor. I began watching The Eleventh Hour with negative expectations based on seeing Matt Smith interviewed and thinking he was too young for the role, likewise having seen Capaldi I have high expectations of his portrayal of the Doctor which were equally as bad in a way. Better to not expect anything, just be pleasantly surprised. (hopefully anyway) Back in BG Who I was predisposed to dislike Colin Baker because of another role I had seen him in, (War and Peace) that even had he been brilliant in the role I would not have taken to him.

    Cheers
    Janette

    #60596
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish

    As @janetteb says, there are so many future regenerations – look how they managed to regenerate Paul McGann into a very young John Hurt, by using an archive shot of one of Hurt’s earlier roles, CGI’d in as a reflection. John Hurt’s War Doctor was possible because of the hiatus; any ‘future’ Doctor could equally be slotted in to the sequence the next time the BBC decides to rest Doctor Who for a few years.

    For that matter, exactly what iteration of the Master is Missy? The current assumption that the regenerations go Simm-to-Gomez is, until we see the regeneration, an assumption.

    Anyway: I’m with the ‘they’re planning a surprise’ camp. I agree that while the ground is now solidly prepared for a woman to play the official TV Doctor, the BBC is probably quite keen to avoid five and a half months of tabloids spinning fake shock and horror for all they’re worth – which might be why the BBC suits would be equally keen on a ‘Christmas surprise announcement’ and don’t seem to be planning some awful gameshow style introduction.

    #60598
    Nick @nick

    @bluesqueakpip @jimthefish @craig @janetteb @blenkinsopthebrave

    Bluesqueakpip, as you say, it does seem likely that the regen is planned to be a complete surprise (with perhaps an unplanned short notice special if it is leaked on a large scale as seemed to happen with Capaldi). But then, if the BBC are planning to make the name public, with a planned date just before Christmas, could/would we be able to tell this now ?

    On the question of using the next Doctor on screen, I don’t think it would necessarily be that difficult to do. We’ve seen two different approaches  – with the Tom Baker regeneration and Ki’ampo (? spelling) regeneration in Planet of the Spiders. I doubt Moff would want to do either again, but he could use the idea with his own twist.

    How about having the “Watcher”/next Doctor assume a familiar face (Bill or Clara for example) conjured from Capaldi’s imagination for the duration of the episode before disappearing/merging at the moment of Capaldi’s regeneration into the next Doctor ? It’s not like Moff doesnt recycle some of his own ideas. [it would also keep the door open on Phoebe Waller-Bridge casting – her agents wouldnt strictly have lied].

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