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    Timeloop @timeloop

    @dickiegarvey Sorry havn’t seen it (and don’t want to yet). Might be fake though.

    Anonymous @

    ooh to  @Timeloop the pictures drawn by a child? -the doctor’s cot in the recently aired pictures. In the stills, there’s a fallen (weeping) angel -metaphor for the doctor? In the drawings we see all sorts of wonderful suggestions: the 4 blue envelopes; the ride on horses to Stonehenge; a dalek facing off a British soldier; a dalek shooting the doctor in TBB; elements of the 11th Hour with the mother and two children actually being prisoner zero with their snakey teeth and the Nightmare in Silver’s Doctor. Also, in one still we see Clara holding a sonic? And who are those people dressed in East European dress from 1880?

    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013


    the doctor leading the silence into battle and who is Clara talking to?

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    ‘The clock is striking twelves’?


    wolfweed @wolfweed
    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013



    awesome picture! Where did you get this? What did you think of the trailer?

    Craig @craig

    @tennantmarsters2013 If you follow the link posted by @wolfweed you’ll see where he got the pic.

    As for what I thought, the most intersting moment was the Daleks saying “The Doctor is regenerating”. I have been secretly thinking (hoping) for a while that there could be a lot more of Capaldi at Christams than just the final 5 minutes.

    wolfweed @wolfweed


    “And now it’s time for one last bow
    Like all your other selves
    Eleven’s hour is over now
    The clock is striking twelve’s”

    Apparently the Silents are now sporting turtleneck jumpers….  The siege of Trenzalore. A trap. The Dr with Hartnell-esque walking-stick. An aged Dr 11. The Dr is regenerating.  The TDOTD version of the theme tune. Yeah -pretty good.

    As you ask, ‘Who is Clara talking to?’

    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013



    thanks 🙂 ive just had a look and I love them all. I don’t get why the doctor is working with the silence though…and I share your feelings on capaldi XD


    @wolfwred the whole trailer was awesome and I think she is talking to someone to do with the alien in series two who was inside the girl… Can’t remember the name of the episode off too my head been a while

    Craig @craig

    @wolfweed @tennantmarsters2013 and everyone else

    You can now discuss the trailer here (with full protection having been created in the Activity streams).


    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Is that the doctor with the silence we only see him in silhouette. And whoever Clara is talking to she  seems to think they have the ability to change the course of time, oho i hope its a surprise appearance of

    1. the hurtdoco

    2. tennantdoco

    even woohoo

    3. the moments /tardis operating systems avatars

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    4 facts about TTOTD that Steven Moffat reveals in today’s DWM:

    The question that must never be asked has yet to be asked.

    There is a fair bit of nudity.

    Tasha Lem is the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe

    There’s a Cyber-Head z

    wolfweed @wolfweed
    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed – why does that Silent have a Lightsabre?

    and why are there Jawas next to the drawing of Craig and The Doctor?

    Ferrocene @ferrocene

    Hello everyone,

    I’ve been following this forum since it started and the Guardian blog before that.



    I think the Silent has been to a Star Wars convention and possibly shop lifted some merchandise using its innate ability to fool shop assistants.  He’s showing it off in the dark so the other Silents can’t tell that’s really a load of LEDs in a plastic tube. The headless monks were also at the convention, dressed up as jawas (they just had to move around on their knees).

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    If Moffat has said there will be a fair bit of nudity in the Christmas special, and given that we should never take anything he says at face value, I think the nudity will involve a baby.

    Arbutus @arbutus


    If Moffat has said there will be a fair bit of nudity in the Christmas special, and given that we should never take anything he says at face value, I think the nudity will involve a baby.

    Okay, I have not been all that convinced about the baby business, but this is a really good point. What other kind of nudity could there possibly be in an episode of Doctor Who? Moffat does like to wind us up, doesn’t he?


    geoffers @geoffers

    @arbutus @blenkinsopthebrave – i was thinking paintings (cherubs?) or statues (non-weeping, garden variety), as the most obvious ways to sneak in some nudeness… but a baby? eeenteresting…

    also, didn’t i read somewhere that moffat said “no more weeping angels,” or something to that effect? liar, liar, gallifrey on fire


    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Was looking at the BBC America site, and discovered one photo from the Christmas special that is not on the BBC site. It is of Orla Brady, who I understand is playing the Mother Superior of the Papal Mainframe with…a Dalek stalk sticking out of her head (as in Asylum of the Daleks). but sorry, I do not know how to upload it. @wolfweed, help me out!


    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    Just want a quick show of how many people think the silence are working with the doctor?


    because after all they wanted to stop him going to trensalore and presumly starting this war.


    also the silence has a new top?

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    I think the silence work for the silence

    wolfweed @wolfweed
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Thanks! (and loved you recap of Silence will Fall)

    As for the picture above, besides indicating that the Daleks seem to be behind everything, it made me wonder if the Daleks are now aware of the “new” fate of the Time War.

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    The question that must never be answered is ‘Dr Who?’. It is not ‘What is your name, Doctor?’, as this was already asked (& sort of answered). So the question yet to be asked must be ‘Who is the Doctor?’ as opposed to ‘What is his name?’

    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    @wolfweed so really it’s not a refusal by the doctor to answer that causes silence to fall it’s the fact that the doctor truly doesn’t have a reply to dr who?

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    I’ve always wondered if the doctor was something more than your normal timelord Look at some of the characters he has met in the past starting with the white and black guardians, he also appears to have knowledge of races/entities that predate the timelords. Now I don’t know if this is knowledge is supposed to be common to all timelords or is unique to the doctor, but If this was so it would explain why there is a question and may also explain how they may get around the regeneration rule.
    Though another thought in the deadly assassin (Tom Baker era ) the master was granted/given more regenerations albeit unintentionally by the timelords as this was the same story that established the 12 regeneration rule it always seemed strange to me that everyone fixated that there can only be twelve regenerations as this fact blatantly made it possible for the doctor to have more than the 12 regenerations most have taken as cannon.

    Right I’ve rambled enough and there are probably big gaping rifts in what I’ve posted but had to get it off my chest and if it’s in the wrong place my apologies.

    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013



    i think he is one if the first timelord or it is just knowledge all of them have

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    I agree that there are hints that the Doctor is more important to Time Lord society than we know. In “Remembrance of the Daleks” he lets slip that he, along with Rassilon and Omega, created the Hand of Omega. That alone makes him rather special.

    How this relates to the regeneration limit, though, I am not sure. Moffat has said (if we believe him!) that the limit is canon and must be respected. So that does imply that Moffat will have to address the regeneration limit in a rather special way.

    As to what they way might be, however, I have no idea!


    Anonymous @


    …it made me wonder if the Daleks are now aware of the “new” fate of the Time War.

    Same here. I’m also wondering if they’ve remembered who The Doctor is, seeing as Clara erased their knowledge of him in AotD.

    @wolfweed – re post #22857 – what a handsome chap. He looks kind of familiar too 😉

    The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman

    I have heard that Paul McGann might be reappearing in series 8. I think that due to the popularity of Night of the Doctor, this theory might have some truth in it.

    CraigNixon @craignixon


    There was ‘The Cartmel Masterplan’ back in the olden days (and I’m sure some of what I’m about to say will be corrected) but they were trying to restore some mystique and grandeur to the Doctor in McCoys reign, making him more mysterious and dropping hints about him being a Timelord creator.

    In the novel ‘Lungbarrow’ its said that Rassilon, Omega and ‘The Other’ created the Eye of Harmony etc etc and ‘The Other’ threw himself into the Genetic Looms by which TL are created and The Doctor is supposed to be his reincarnation.

    I’ve always though Moffat was going to lead upto something around that for the 50th.

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @craignixon Well I was trying to avoid using book/novel content as I haven’t been around the forum long and wasn’t sure if they were accepted as part of the who history/cannon.I agree certainly in the McCoy era there seemed to be a deliberate attempt to make the doctor more mysterious and taking the novels into account the Other was certainly rebellious, which fits the doctors persona. Though I seem to remember somewhere that ancient timelords had infinite regenerations and it was only “modern” timelords that have restricted regenerations. So if the doctor were truly an ancient timelord his having more regenerations wouldn’t break the “rule”. Given that Rassilon is supposed to be truly immortal and has unlimited regenerations the concept of the doctor being an ancient(ouch were getting stargatey here), timelord is not that far fetched. By the way I was never happy with the Rassilon in TEOT is this the mythic Rassilon or just some timelord wannabe I am sure we all have our own opinions on that matter. But bringing matters back to TToTD I’m sure that Moffat has taken all this into consideration and probably ignored it and will bring about some kind of timey-wimey reason for there to be more regenerations.

    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @thekrynoidman. Oh I do hope so I always thought that McGann was gyped out of more TV time as the doctor and given the minisode NoTD the way for an older looking McGann to appear and given the I won’t remember this ploy used with the hurt and tenant doctors the way would be clear for a one-off or a two parter.

    geoffers @geoffers

    @devilishrobby – i said a while back (and will now repeat what i was only considering back then), and make this my official prediction regarding the regen limit…

    since gallifrey is now set up to be found (at whatever future point, it doesn’t really matter whether it happens on screen, or not, in the next few seasons, or the next 50 years), i’m predicting moffat will go the most simple of routes to get past the regeneration limit, as he did (much to my dismay) in tPO/tBB. in that two-parter, a future version of matt simply came back in time to facilitate his own rescue from the pandorica. it bugged me so badly that he used such a simple “trick” to get the doctor out of such a tight spot, at the time (and i can’t say my opinion of the low-down dirtiness of that “trick” has dimished any). put simply, once he was trapped in the pandorica, how could there be a future version of himself, if he couldn’t escape by his own wits? and furthermore, how/when did future-matt acquire the knowledge that he needed to be released, back in the past?

    so… the time lords, as a reward for being saved and brought back into the universe, will go back in time, to the events on trenzalore, and grant the doctor a new set of regenerations, so that he can continue his newly-found mission to find (and restore) gallifrey. how this will be accomplished, i haven’t a clue (though i think something similar to the potion that brought back mcgann wouldn’t be out of the question). now, i really think matt dies believing that he will not regenerate (thus his passionate farewell speech that’s been hinted at), and i suspect that capaldi might even be a bit confused as to why he’s still around, once he’s sorted out the bad guys and basically calmed everyone else down (and/or proven to them that he really is the doctor)…

    again, the simplicity involved is the key. moffat likes to throw a lot of information around, to keep us all guessing (and theorising bonkersilly/bonkersally?)… which is a good thing! otherwise, this forum wouldn’t exist, and we’d be the poorer for not having one another to soothe and/or to further torture our twisted brains. 😉 but i’ve been wrong enough, now, for all of matt’s run, trying to untangle all of moff’s feints and false leads, that i have to believe in the most basic resolution i can think of. and since gallifrey’s “rescue” featured so prominently in the 50th special, and because i want the doctor to remain the same person, going forward (i.e. not some other timelord taking up the “mission” of this one, once he’s run out of lives), i lean towards this fairly simple, straightforward resolution… to a most ballyhooed, ongoing, and nagging problem of simple story continuity!


    i might be wrong… AGAIN! if so, i will face up to my ignorance with head held high, knowing that i did my best…

    [shakes fist at the laughing spectre of the grand moff…]


    Anonymous @

    @geoffers  I must agree with you regarding tBB also. It was such a startling and terrifying prison built with the intention of holding the cleverest prisoner; one with wits and a sonic. I presume he had the sonic and then used it with the vortex manipulator to get out. He could escape more easily as the universe was inverting by the minute? Don’t know -it seemed a crude, quick means of escape that sidestepped the wonderful tragedy heralded in tPO. So, having forgotten my simplistic theory for the 50th and regeneration limits, I would think no other ‘doctor’ could appear. That, as you say, wouldn’t do. He must be the same.  As @Bluequeakpip said, the time of twelve goes around to ‘00.00’ or ‘1.00’ -somehow he starts again. The TLs aren’t a particularly generous bunch-yes, they’re glad they’ve survived. As to whether they bestow more lives upon him, I don’t know if it’s in their nature to be so thankful or indebted.



    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @purofilion which is my point the doctor is so atypical where most of the timelords are concernered it’s almost as if he isn’t a normal timelord his being something more than a timelord would explain this. Although thinking back Hartnell era the doctor started off being more aloof so maybe his attitudes are more to do with his estrangement from timelord society and his “contamination” by his companions.

    TardisBlue @tardisblue

    @geoffers, @purofilion, @others,

    on the topic of simple solutions to the regeneration limit problem:

    ever since the first poster for this episode was released, I’ve been wondering whether — and occasionally hoping that — the Weeping Angel will grab a hold of the Smith Doctor and take him back 1000 years, plus or minus. Being sent back in time by the Angel will miraculously give The Doctor another 12 regenerations. Dodging the regeneration bullet until Gallifrey is found and he’s awarded more regenerations for meritorious service.

    (You remember that Angel, don’t you? We see it buried in the snow with its outstretched arms showing, to the left of the Smith Doctor.)

    Far too simple and not very bonkers, I know, so I didn’t mention it earlier. And with the Mother Superior of the Papal Mainframe spouting a Dalek eye stalk, a “fatal” confrontation with his historic enemies seems much more likely. Moffat always seems to come up with something none of us have fully anticipated. So it may not be Daleks, either. Who nose? Who knows.

    @devilishrobby, great avatar. You look devilish indeed.


    wolfweed @wolfweed
    geoffers @geoffers

    @purofilion – it’s been a while since i watched tBB, but i rewatched it several times after broadcast trying to figure it out, and i don’t remember him explicitly acquiring the vortex manipulator. perhaps i should rewatch both episodes, with that in mind. still, how did he get his hands free of the arm restraints, to use either his sonic or the manipulator? plus, he was still in the pandorica, arms restrained. didn’t rory let him out, using the sonic? how did future-him give rory the sonic? (i may not be remembering correctly, it has been a while!) perhaps as the universe was collapsing, it simply “spat him out” at some random point in time, and he used the v.m. to go back?…

    i know, timey wimey!

    as for the time lords, their disposition on the matter doesn’t matter. if the doctor dies for good, he can never find gallifrey, hence no time lords, ever… grateful or ungrateful!

    @tardisblue – the only problem with using the angel to send him back is that he couldn’t take the tardis with him. no tardis, no doctor. unless it sends him back in time on trenzalore, and he waits around for himself to show up 1000 years later?! that would really piss him off, if nothing else, lol! (or maybe he still has the v.m. that clara used in tDotD?) but that also sounds too much like rory the roman, guarding the pandorica for 2,000 years…

    bonkersness, ahoy!

    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    @tardis blue

    I agree with you 50% that the daleks will probably be responsible for 11’s death but the other part of me believes that whoever Clara is speaking to is responsible.

    just bare with me a moment I know sounds bonkers but it could work.


    in the trailer Clara is asking someone to help the doctor change the future and tells them to do it. We have also seen a picture if Clara on Trenzalore with something mystical in her hands running…what if this said object causes the doctor to force himself to regen or give him a new batch of regens?


    So in order for that to happen the person who she is talking to must be a timelord….it maybe not this is where my brain gets mushed because of the pictures they are making me think it’s river or Amy.


    your other theory sounds exciting the angels causing the doctor to go back or forward in time. That is entirely plausable however I think a weeping angel is how Clara gets to the person in the trailer


    sorry I ranted what do you guys think?

    TardisBlue @tardisblue


    erm … um … uh

    well, I suppose, there *is* that.

    Good thing that Clara’s there on Trenzalore. The Impossible Girl. The girl who was born to save the Doctor. The girl who has grown from being unable to open the Tardis door in tRoA to being the girl who opens the Tardis door with a snap of her fingers. The girl who convinced the Tardis to rescue the Doctor from that pocket universe in Hide.

    So, when the Weeping Angel sends the Doctor hurtling back in time, don’t fret. Remember the Oswald family promise: they’ll always find you when you’re lost.

    …of course, I’m fully prepared to be 1000% wrong about this. Still too simple and lacks Dalek and Cybermen action.

    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013



    isnt it strange how it’s always Clara saving the doctor?


    It would be nice to see him save himself for once XD


    what do you think of my theory on the person in the trailer who Clara is talking to saving the doctor?

    Anonymous @

    @tennantmarsters2013   I think the dr generally saves himself most of the time! -except this past season and those occasions where she ‘infiltrated’ his ‘pasts’ I think Clara might be holding a version of the sonic? Also, I think whilst she might be talking to River (I personally don’t think so), I believe that Amy’s story is done now. So who else could she be imploring?






    TardisBlue @tardisblue


    Sorry. Not following your post/train of thought.

    It’s easier for me to follow posts which aren’t so stream of consciousness sounding.

    TardisBlue @tardisblue


    our posts must have crossed in cyberspace. My post immediately above was in response to your first post re: Clara, Daleks, etc. Your second post was easier for me to understand. Call me an old fuddy-duddy if you want, but I do prefer proper grammar, spelling, capitalization and punctuation.

    I haven’t seen that bit with Clara you mentioned. I don’t think Moffat will bring other Time Lords back in this episode

    Too much going on already, and that bit between the Curator and Smith Doctor seemed to set the search for Gallifrey as the arc for the next season(s).

    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013



    i have a tendency to write and think at the same time and it does come out like a big mess sometimes


    quite possible that there won’t be any time lords involvled but I don’t know how he gets around the regen situation





    ttue but I’m stuck on who else it could be

    Anonymous @

    @tardisblue    the bit where Clara is asking someone to save/rescue the doctor? I believe it’s in all the trailers. I think that is what @tennantmarsters2013 is referring to? 🙂  I think aforementioned is wondering who Clara is speaking to? Ditto with you, I don’t think there’ll be TL, nor a River , nor, particularly, an Amy. Her story is caput, as it were.

    geoffers @geoffers

    @tardisblue – good point! how could i forget the person who saves the doctor the most? she may even still have the vortex manipulator from tDotD (or she may have turned it over to him since then, and he has it in his pocket all along?)…

    as for who she’s imploring for help, perhaps it’s the tardis interface? and she’s trying to do the same thing she did in ‘hide?’


    only 7 more days!!

    wolfweed @wolfweed


    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Oh my oh my oh my lol

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