The Next Doctor (2)

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    Oh yes! There is only one Hannibal Lecter (pity about the rest of Manhunter, but he was epic).

    LordRegan @lordregan

    Ok so the next doctor will be the 13. this is now known after the episode of “The Day of the Doctor”
    With the newly added War Doctor we have 12 Doctors in total. So with The Time Lord myth it says they can only regenerate 13 times. So the next Doctor should be the last right? WRONG. If you remember river TRIED to kill the Doctor. But after he “died” she gave him the rest of her regenerations. so she had only used 4 of hers. so he should have 9 more.

    Anonymous @

    Not knowing how much post-regeneration Peter Capaldi will be in the Christmas special, I’ll post on this topic about my thoughts on his (hopefully ‘first’ ) series.

    Although it’s tempting to say the male teacher who gives Clara the Doctor’s message in The Day of the Doctor could be roped in as a companion, I’m thinking that moment was simply a nod to An Unearthly Child.  I’m very much in favour of multiple companions, though.  The dynamic just seems to work better for me.  And while I’m still hoping for companions of different gender (i.e. Clara plus a male), I don’t want to see another Amy-Rory type of multi-companion set – and I doubt Moffat would do that, anyway (have another married or romantically entangled couple so soon).

    My favourite wish is to have another companion with Clara who is an alien of some sort – but perhaps this is where The Paternoster Gang come in?  Not every week (back to my not wishing for another married couple), but often enough for Strax to provide his own inimitable style of comic relief.

    And now that The War Doctor has pointedly referred to Matt Smith flapping his hands about, I’m hoping Capaldi’s take will be calmer, more measured, and speaking at less than 100 miles an hour 🙂 .

    Now that it’s been established that Clara has a job as a schoolteacher – how is that going to work for her as a companion?  Will Capaldi have to keep dropping her off 5 minutes after they left?  Will her adventures, and we know they can be harrowing, affect her ability to teach?  It’s been established in AG Who that companions generally get a ‘holiday’ of some sort (which we don’t see on screen) after a particularly distressing adventure.  Are we to believe that Clara is so unflappably calm, takes everything in stride with no remnant of PTSD at all, that she can save a planet then go straight back into the classroom?

    EltonJohn @eltonjohn

    Hey Guys,

    sorry for interrupting your forum. My friend is fan of doctor who, and I would like to get him some Xmas gift. What would you recommend for such fan? I mean collection of DVDs is IMHO prehistoric…




    ScaryB @scaryb

    @eltonjohn You’re likely to find something here, they have 1 or 2 items

    Anonymous @

    @eltonjohn – you’re not interrupting.  🙂  But as a newcomer to this forum, perhaps you missed this excellent blog which I think will solve all of your gift-giving problems?


    EltonJohn @eltonjohn

    Thank you guys! @Shazzbot @scaryb That is exactly what I was looking for!

    Anonymous @

    @miapatrick – the Topic Dalek revolves her eyestalk again.  🙂  But I did want to follow on from your Unearthly Child comments about companions and what we might see with Capaldi’s incarnation.

    This episode does raise the question, in a way: is the doctor better more, or less ‘human’? Do the companions work best humanising the doctor, or demonstrating, by contrast, how alien he is?

    Very keen insight / question.  Indeed.  Do we really want the Doctor to become more ‘human’ – or do we need to see him still relying on his human companions to provide the ‘other view’ of any situation?  This is where I go back to my ideal of a Tardis with Capaldi, Clara, and another companion who is not human (but preferably not an alien which requires 3 hours of makeup every day – poor actor!).  Because having yet another viewpoint on a situation, besides the Time Lord and Human ones, would be quite refreshing, and add interesting layers to adventures.

    I could easily see someone spotting her [Clara, in historical photographs], becoming intrigued, and ultimately following her to the Tardis. Where the Doctor, unused to traveling with ‘ordinary’ people, might be very reluctant to take them along.

    Which raises the ‘Clive’ issue from Rose’s tenure.  🙂   But yes, I utterly take your point about the AG Who Doctors travelling with quite non-ordinary people.  I’ve debated before that Martha was the only fully ‘normal’ companion since 2005.  Rose absorbed the Tardis, Donna became Doctor-Donna, Amy absorbed the crack in her wall, Clara is ‘The Impossible Girl’.  Wouldn’t it be nice to have just Joe or Jill Normal in the mix, finally?  {sigh}

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @Shazzbot- no problem with moving the conversation- though there is a tenuous kind of relevance, it is definitely a case of the first story making me think about possibilities for the next ones.

    Yes, AG, I almost mentioned Martha as the only strictly ‘ordinary’ companion. But thinking of the others- Rose (unless we now decide there was some sort of recognition going on) Donna and Rory all seemed ordinary at the start of their adventures, and then came into their own. Amy- as  I think someone here put it: Eleven imprinted on Amy like a little baby duck- they had that brief history in her childhood and his ‘birth’, and when he found her again, there was mystery around her. River would never dream of seeming ordinary, and came with the mystery of how she knew him- and how well she knew ‘him’. Clara was special twice, before he even met the original.

    What I’m getting at is, would the next doctor have much patience with normal humans or aliens/people? At the beginning, we had two aliens- one of which seemed considerably more fond of and comfortable with human beings than the other, accidentally acquiring/kidnapping two humans. I don’t think Clara needs to be descended from Susan for her role in the program to echo hers.

    One difference between Moffart and RTD, is that the Moff hasn’t had the short termers, the not quite companions. Rory turned out to be essential. River, the Doctor’s wife. Rita died in episode (alas). This might have cut down on the input of ‘normality’ in the series. And in a way, Stax is possibly one of the most relatable new Who companion figures. (Or have I lived too long in the north?)

    Re: human/doctor- I prefer Smith to Tennant, I like a more alien doctor. I think this is a really good aspect of the series. Because a lot of people feel ‘alien’ at times. Sometimes people might relate to the Doctor’s difficulty in relating to people. I think sometimes we need a companion to cover the ‘human’ side of things, and let the doctor be the doctor. But the human side of things has to matter, or why bother?

    DenValdron @denvaldron

    I think that by definition, anyone who travels with the Doctor will cease to be ordinary.  I mean, they see things, they do things,  the often end up far away or quite different from who they started out.

    Jamie was a Highlander

    Leela was a futuristic savage.

    Romana (either) was a Time Lord.

    Turlough was an alien.

    Nyssa was an alien.

    Adric an alien.

    Sarah Jane Smith’s life was changed to the point that she was a de facto supernatural investigator.

    They often ended up in different places in space and time, they married alien war chiefs or kings.   Sometimes they died.

    Anonymous @

    Hi there all and thanks to @pedant and @wolfweed for those wonderful vids particularly the teenager: “who IS  that?” and “he’s ugly”. God, I teach these types and thankfully there’s some ‘hip’ teens I know who happily wear that Fez and a bow tie to school on free-dress days and they were quietly confident that Capaldi  would make a great doctor. They’d watched The Thick of It, you see. Also, these same teens actually love older actors like Bill Nighy so, I guess, they’re not all that awful and typical 🙂

    On theories, I too wonder alongside @bluesqueakpip whether Clara would be Dr Capaldi’s daughter with River or related in some other way as @janetteb suggested -there’s an understanding or acceptance that the TARDIS gives Clara (clicking her shut) whereas before she (the TARDIS)  seemed slightly sick or suffering from indigestion when Clara flew with her. Also, Clara has this preternatural ability to sense-as she did with the Hurt Doctor- that he had “younger eyes”. She’s not as ‘flip’ either as she was in the Bells of St John, although that could be a writing development rather than anything singularly empathetic. Either way, I hope she is with the 12th/13th for a while longer; as her youth and sparkiness is a nice contrast to Capaldi’s ‘grown up’ doctor. Funny, I don’t see him as ‘old’ at all. In interviews, he’s generous and humble and quite witty and in ‘The Hour’, for example, he’s wonderfully intriguing. A complex mixture of sour, withdrawn and shrewd with precarious thinness and pallor. Lots of nervous hands too =like Mat flapping his.

    Whilst I loved Dr Tenn, I did always find myself admiring his acting rather than the role/episode itself. Someone else mentioned this above (forgotten who -must keep written notes) and also commented on how Dr Smith managed to convey a very very old man -even though as an actor he was about 26 when he started in this role? Amazing really. For that reason, my boy adored Dr Tenn (cried his eyes out during the overly long “I don’t want to go” exit) but is deeply distressed at Dr Smith’s departure. Something about Mat seems very genuine; a soaring spirit compared to the linguistic cleverness and verbal hi-jinks of Tenn’s doctor.



    CraigNixon @craignixon

    Companion wise, I’m hoping we (like @Shazzbot) get an Alien, or even a Human from a different time period. Jamie-like for example. Victorian Claricle would have been excellent.


    What is everyone wanting from the next series?

    Me, I’m hoping for a full blow arc. Not one or two episodes that center around it. But something in every episode, hints and clues to pour over.

    Dependent on Xmas episode, Gallifrey not to be found. That deserves to be a multi season thing, maybe little bits restored as we go(the painting broken up?)

    I want a good explanation of why Capaldi / Baker etc played two roles – I think he’s said that’ll be resolved?


    Do any of you think there will be a ginger doctor??? Or a kid doctor??? That would be cool to watch. “I’M FINALLY GINGER” Ha I would love to so that

    Anonymous @

    Just found this place looking for Dr Who.  Man, do you guys go on!?  Can I join in?  🙂

    Peter Capaldi is more than Malcom Tucker in In The Loop.  Have you seen Skins, or Local Hero?  And Neverwhere?!!  Why does everyone on the web assume he’ll be swearing nine shades of blue as The Doctor!?

    He should be like the Fifth Doctor, and have loads of people in The Tardis (but not Adric, who wants to kill another companion like that?!).


    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @drsmith – just as a reminder, anything that might be considered a spoiler should go in the Spoilers forum for discussion there. @phaseshift or @jimthefish, could you move post #22381, please. Thanks

    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord


    I’m afraid I trashed your reply while moving, which may become an occupational hazard. If it’s not derived from an official BBC source, it should be discussed in the Spoiler thread. Feel free to repost it there for discussion by all means.

    wolfweed @wolfweed
    The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman

    Here’s a strange coincidence. There’s a scene in the thick of it where someone mentioned Doctor Who, and it cuts straight to Peter Capaldi.

    Arbutus @arbutus

    The Doctor has said that “regeneration is a lottery”. But I wonder if it is truly as random as that? There has been discussion about how the Doctor comes by his new faces and new accents, but what about the personalities? We know that the Sisterhood of Karn were able to intervene in the creation of the War Doctor. But that aside, has there been a pattern in the type of person that each new Doctor becomes? I think that there has.

    In most cases, the Doctor’s new persona has been a change of direction from the one previous. Often, it is even possible to guess at events that might have encouraged a change in personality in a new incarnation. Perhaps the Doctor’s regenerative process acts as a sort of survival mechanism, as in evolutionary theory, taking elements that have been successful and discarding what hasn’t.

    As we have seen in The Day of the Doctor, the Doctor’s post-Time War incarnations are a direct response to his activities during that event, stages of his grieving process. The Eccleston Doctor is still in survival mode, still tough and independent. Regeneration rejects some of those qualities, seeing that the Doctor must regain his lightness of being to survive. The Tennant Doctor does this, but is still too immersed in tragedy, too inward-looking, so upon regeneration, a very child-like, joyful Doctor emerges, one who wears his emotions on his sleeve.

    Now, the Time War has been resolved; there has been redemption. And, just as the Hurt Doctor regenerated when his role was complete, the Smith Doctor is about to do the same. What will the healing, evolutionary process do for him this time?

    We know, of course, that the new incarnation will be older in appearance. We can guess that along with that appearance will come a more mature personal style. Perhaps the Doctor’s more serious side will rise to the fore once again, a more imposing demeanour, harking back to his first and third incarnations, possibly softened by some essential Doctorish quirkiness. (This is something that worked well for the Fourth Doctor.) Might we also see some Seventh Doctor craftiness and some Third/Sixth Doctor arrogance? And perhaps some of the wonderful moral outrage that the Doctor used to exhibit in some of his other incarnations (Two, Five, and Eight come to mind here).

    You can call these guesses or just a wish list.  🙂  I’m not sure which they are, myself. But they are all qualities that I can see Peter Capaldi potentially bringing to the role, and qualities that I think are born out by the Doctor’s own history.


    DiscoStu @discostu

    When I heard of Peter Capaldi’s casting, I had no idea who the hell he was, until I looked him up on IMDB and he is actually in one of my favourite horror films:  THE LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM.

    And because of that, I think he will do a pretty good job as the Doctor.

    wolfweed @wolfweed


    Anonymous @

    I placed this comment here because it sort of relates to the new Doctor’s story lines. Sorry if it strays to far from the thread.

    My question: Is there anyone else hoping that the Doctor and Clara are still trapped in the Doctor’s time-stream?

    I would like to see Capaldi’s Doctor, (not sure about number but I think 12), have adventures about safely returning Clara to the real world. 

    I know that most people beleive that the Doctor simply escaped with Clara as soon as he was able to find her. But if they didn’t escape like that, then the DotD and TotD episodes could have taken place in the time-stream still. Then the time-stream would nicely explain how he was able to interact with former versions of himself. And this would mean that even more previous doctors could team up or even previous monsters could be fought again. 

    I will admit that the thought of former Doctors returning is my major reason for wishing for this, since I am still hoping for Matt Smith to return as the Doctor (nothing against Capaldi).  I am also interested in learning about others ideas on the subject.

    Thanks and Hello to all

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Roman Camp named after the new Dr Who star in recently published comic book ‘Asterix & the Pechts’…

    Risdat @risdat


    That is a wild and wicked view that could indeed provide promising who material in the future.

    Unfortunately I recall that Moffat said that they had actually left the time stream. I don’t know exactly where I read this, but there must be some people on here who know…


    ScaryB @scaryb

    @barnable @risdat

    Definitely been out of the timestream since the end of Name of the Doctor

    Can’t find the link just now but Moffat confirmed in interview in early December. Matt carried Clara out (but they didn’t have enough time to do more than suggest it)


    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Yes, it was Matt’s knee; knee problems plus carrying actress aren’t a good combination. I bet Jenna Coleman was wondering if she was going to be dumped on the floor any second. 😉

    They were originally thinking about a dramatic run/leap – which would have made it obvious they’d got out of the timestream. Instead they had to settle for a rather less dramatic suggestion of a turn.

    BFI interview, I think.

    wolfweed @wolfweed




    @barnable @risdat @scaryb @bluesqueakpip

    Timestream confirmation can be found here:

    ScaryB @scaryb

    Haha @wolfweed – that’s brilliant. Nice to know that Tennant’s Richard II extensions have a continuing life 😉

    Thanks also for the Timestream reveal warning when you originally posted the link to the Moffat interview.

    wolfweed @wolfweed
    Monochrome Dimension @monochromedimension

    @wolfweed – That quote he used… First Doctor… is that just a coincidence or is that a hint!? I’d love for his outfit to be like the First Doctor’s; obviously not exactly the same but something similar!

    wolfweed @wolfweed




    FallingForTwelve @fallingfortwelve

    Hi all.  Just joined.

    REALLY REALLY enjoying the commentary about Clara… something about her character bothers me, but I am hoping that she becomes much more moving forward.

    So stoked about the choice of actor for the new Doctor… I’m a fan of men of a certain age, and while Matt Smith was impeccable and adorable, he was virtually uncrushable.  For some reason, I feel the need to have a crush on the Doctor.

    Anonymous @

    welcome @fallingfortwelve   what a great name and terrific avatar. I agree re Clara. Is it the endless talking: “are you doing the clever thing now?” I found her hard to take in the episode BofSJ: it took a long time for me to warm to her. I wanted a different, older person, not a girl….I know: notPC on many levels. Also, I have always loved Peter Capaldi- seeing him years ago in a panto/play. Fell in love. He hasn’t changed -a few more lines and wrinkles which add dignity IMHO. Can’t wait for his arrival this year…. Kindest, purofilion

    ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity

    @fallingfortwelve – Matt was a bit too puppy-dog for me (not to mention being far too young and unlined for a woman of 44 to find attractive) but Peter – well, I do like a man with presence, and he has that in spades!

    Clara’s taken time to grow on me, but I do hope she gets a decent chance in the next series. She felt like a case of “brilliant plot device, oh heck we’d better give her a pretty face to cover the lack of an actual character” up until her whole Impossible Girl thing got sorted out.  I started to see promise in her during The Day Of The Doctor, and as I think Jenna Coleman is a thoroughly decent actress I hope she gets some better stuff to work with this year.

    I’ve seen a lot of comments around the web about wanting Twelve to be a “darker” Doctor; I’m not sure what that means, but here’s a short wish-list of mine:

    1) Less pratting about; less whimsy and general silliness.  Matt did it very well, but for me it detracted from the more serious moments.  He was more Approaching Light Shower than Oncoming Storm; I hope the writers don’t waste Peter’s talents the same way.

    2) A little offhand rudeness to the companion(s) now and then.  If somebody’s being an idiot, I’d like the Doctor to tell them so! The Fourth Doctor could do it – the last couple have been too “sweet” for that kind of thing and being old-fashioned, I don’t want the Doctor being “sweet”. I’d like to see a bit of impatience, some flashes of annoyance instead of all that lovey-dovey, they’re all wonderful stuff.

    In fact, I’d like to see a Doctor who is a bit more alien in his interactions. Somebody who doesn’t suffer fools gladly.

    I also have a bit of a theory.  Remember what the War Doctor said about his successors’ regret saving lives? Perhaps the removal of his guilt over Gallifrey will make the Twelfth Doctor slightly less reluctant to use stronger means against his enemies? I don’t mean he’ll suddenly start zapping everything in sight or blowing up whole worlds – he’ll always be a good man and stop short of violence – but now he knows he hasn’t committed genocide in the past, he may just be a bit less apologetic about the odd failure to save every life in the future.

    Which brings me to another great hope for his era. Please, let’s get some jeopardy back!  Nobody who dies actually seems to stay dead any more, and while that might be reassuring for the kiddie-winkies, it’s pretty darned unrealistic.  “Oh, look, Rory’s dead again” became boring quite fast, and in TNOTD Strax can revive Jenny too….

    I don’t want people being killed left, right and centre; just once in a while let it be shown the Doctor can’t save everyone.

    Besides, PC does grief and tragedy brilliantly. It’d be a shame not to use as much of his terrific acting range as the writers can get.


    ScaryB @scaryb


    Interesting post, though I thought

    not to mention being far too young and unlined for a woman of 44 to find attractive

    was a bit of a sweeping statement 😉 Fortunately different people find different things attractive.

    I agree that Capaldi is a brilliant actor and I’m looking forward to seeing where he goes with the character. I’ve been wondering if they’ll maybe go into 6th Doctor territory – to make him an unsympathetic character who gradually warms up; the challenge being to do it properly this time. (And shades of Hartnell as well of course). No problem with a bit of conflict in the TARDIS (and there was plenty from previous companions eg Donna and Amy/Rory) so long as it doesn’t resort to boring bickering as in a lot of Davison’s stories.

    I thought Matt did an amazing job though; turning on the head of a pin from manic whimsy to darkly thoughtful to outright troubled; he knocked it out the park in NotD, DotD and TotD in terms of developing the character and showing a very vulnerable, and at times quite alien, side to the Doctor.

    I agree that sometimes the dead should stay dead, but that’s difficult in a show with time travel, and the target family audience. But at the same time the last 3 series in particular have taken us on an emotional journey that dealt with the fallout from grief and loss. eg knowing Amy and Rory had a good after(Doctor)life doesn’t stop us and the Doctor feeling their loss keenly; River and Matt’s final farewell scene isn’t less emotional (for me anyway) for knowing we could still see her again and that this River is only a projection. River’s biggest fear is that the Doctor will rewrite their history – don’t change anything, not one line – ie that she will be forgotten.  The cracks take you out of time, like you never existed, no-one remembers you.  Memories – no matter how painful – are how we keep the dead alive and stay “human”.

    On the subject of memory, I suspect Capaldi’s Doctor’s apparent memory loss is temporary, to allow Clara to explain things and bring the casual viewers of the 8.1 up to date 😉

    Actual deaths when they come are more shocking – Cass’s death in Night of the Doctor for example. Kahler-Jex in Town Called Mercy. Even nasty bad guy Solomon in Dinosaurs… the fact that he was exploded triggered a lot of debate about the morality of the Doctor taking his life.

    ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity

    @scaryb  – my apologies if it came across as a sweeping generalisation; it was intended to be a specific statement of how this 44-year-old female feels! I’ve heard so many people stating that they find Matt dazzlingly attractive and thought – what?  He don’t do a thing for me!

    If I could figure out smileys, I promise I’d be using one there!

    I’m a little alarmed at the thought of going too Sixth Doctor – it’d be a big risk, in my opinion, to try something that extreme, even if Moffat and co are more likely to get it right.  I’d hope for more Baker T. than Baker C; and you’ve pointed up exactly why the Davison era isn’t one of my favourites; that particular bunch of companions were not an easy bunch for me to take to!



    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    make him an unsympathetic character who gradually warms up; the challenge being to do it properly this time. (And shades of Hartnell as well of course).

    I’d prefer it if they went Hartnell rather than C. Baker. Hartnell was never unsympathetic (despite being a bit of a git). I got The Beginnings set for Christmas (Unearthly Child, The Daleks and Edge of Destruction) and – as they made heavy play of in An Adventure In Space And Time – Hartnell does indeed play it with a twinkle. There’s also an obvious love between the Doctor and his granddaughter.

    I have no idea how long the memory loss is going to last. Might be ten seconds. 😈 Could be a series-long arc; he’s got to get to Time War Gallifrey to be ‘all thirteen’, after all. But it would be just like Steven Moffat to stick that nice little cameo in The Day of The Doctor – and then have it turn out to be the central point of Series 8. The Doctor has to take part in saving Gallifrey; we’ve seen him take part in saving Gallifrey. But he can’t remember what he did as his previous incarnations, or even how to fly the TARDIS. 🙂

    Arbutus @arbutus

    @confusedpolarity  While for the most part, I had no problem with the silliness, I love this sentence:  He was more Approaching Light Shower than Oncoming Storm.

    Fully agree with your second point regarding alien rudeness (“brusqueness” is a good word as well). The ninth was also good at that, although due to the way his relationship with Rose was written, he rarely treated her that way. Actually, I think that the reason we haven’t seen as much of that in the AG series is not so much the “sweetness” of the doctors, as the dynamic that was written into their relationships with some of the companions. For example, the Tenth had no problem lobbing the occasional insult Donna’s way (and vice versa), and Eleven was often quite unkind to Rory. And I agree, I prefer that over the “sweetness and light” approach.

    Your last point is an interesting one, and I’m not sure what I think. As @scaryb, says, there have been deaths in the new series (I would point out Astrid in Voyage of the Damned as another one), and they do have an impact. The “not dead but gone forever” approach works for me as well, except when they subvert it by bringing the characters back, as with Rose. I sincerely hope they don’t make that mistake with River; it was having her back for a proper farewell with Eleven worked well, but I’m not sure she should be coming back again. It was great that when Amy and Rory left, they really left.

    Or do you mean companions? The Big Finish audios tend to drop companions a lot more than we have ever seen on TV, and I’m not altogether sure how much I like it. More realistic, certainly, but I don’t know about better. And in any case, I don’t know how dark they can let it get in a family t.v. show.


    Arbutus @arbutus

    @scaryb    Like @confusedpolarity, I definitely found Matt Smith too young to “crush” on, but for myself, I don’t need to find the doctor attractive in that way, and I loved his quirky alien approach to the part. I am, however, delighted that the doctor will once again be older than I am, although only just!  🙂

    Regarding the prospect of a less “charming” characterization, I think that there is so much good will toward Capaldi in the part that they can probably make him as unsympathetic as they wish, and people will still like him!


    ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity

    @arbutus – I’m not at all averse to silliness in Doctor Who – Lord knows it wouldn’t be the show it is without it! It’s just that for me personally there was too much of Silly Eleven and not quite enough of Serious, which I agree Matt could do extremely well.  It’s all a question of balance, and to my taste it got a bit skewed as Series 6 & 7 went on.

    A good friend of mine, who at 57 had watched every episode from the very beginning, gave up toward the end of Series 6 because “it’s all too panto now.”  I wouldn’t go that far, but I’m glad to say she’s coming back to give Series 8 a chance!

    I’m certainly not advocating bumping off a companion every few years to keep up the jeopardy level 🙂 either!  Astrid’s death was affecting because it was a death; the temporary ones are the ones I have an issue with as plot devices.  The eventual departure of the Ponds was beautifully done, but leads me to another question.

    In earlier eras, would the Doctor have been so affected by their loss? I rationalise his dependence on his human companions (Eleven’s grief at losing Amy and Rory, Ten’s pining for Rose) as being related to the apparent demise of Gallifrey. Hartnell’s Doctor waved his granddaughter on her way with advice about “no regrets” Tom Baker’s parted from Sarah Jane with a sweet mutual “don’t forget me”. Was it because they didn’t feel the same loneliness as the last of the Time Lords?  Or, quite simply, because audience in those days didn’t demand the same level of emotional involvement expected now?

    And as the only woman in my circle who screamed in protest when I saw David Tennant because “the Doctor’s not meant to be good-looking!” I’m certainly not cheering the arrival of Capaldi because I personally find him easier on the eye than Matt; I’m just thrilled to see a brilliant actor taking on the role.


    Arbutus @arbutus

    @confusedpolarity     In earlier eras, would the Doctor have been so affected by their loss?

    I think that both of your answers are of course correct. In the real world, audiences today do want lots of emotion. This is why we now see all kinds of back story and personal life for the companions, which never happened BG. And it’s why the Doctor seems so angst-ridden at times. And of course, in-universe, the Doctor was changed by the events of the Time War. Although I never loved the writing that had the Tenth Doctor in mourning for Rose long after she had gone, and oddly, find it hard to imagine the Ninth Doctor responding in this way. He, I think, would have been more inclined to move on.

    I had more sympathy for the Doctor’s reaction after what happened to Donna. Since her fate was arguably the sadder one, it seemed reasonable that he would respond by declining to seek out a new companion, after what association with him had done to Donna!

    In the case of Amy, it seems harder to explain, since there was nothing intrinsically horrific in her fate (of course, that whole plot point didn’t really make sense to me, as I could never come up with a good reason for him not to go back to some point in time and find her. At least, not a reason that I found convincing. Some people have suggested that the events of the Night and the Doctor minisode took place sometime between this and The Snowmen, and so he had also seen the last of River. This would make a little more sense to me as the cause of his unhappiness.

    Wouldn’t it be fun if, when the next companion goes, the Doctor makes much less fuss about it? It’s hard to imagine Capaldi’s doctor being quite as emotional as his two predecessors.

    And as the only woman in my circle who screamed in protest when I saw David Tennant because “the Doctor’s not meant to be good-looking!” I’m certainly not cheering the arrival of Capaldi because I personally find him easier on the eye than Matt; I’m just thrilled to see a brilliant actor taking on the role.

    Arguably, the doctor has been good looking in the past! Looks aside, I’m happy that the next doctor will move up a bit on the age scale, as it will silence those who feel that it is necessary for the doctor to be younger to appeal to the twenty-something audience. Agreed that Capaldi will be as brilliant as the Doctor as he has been elsewhere.


    FallingForTwelve @fallingfortwelve


    How I agree with you on so many of your points.

    There was a time when Tennant played it rough… when he had some rage and danger in him.  I remember, particularly, in Human Nature – I think it was season 3 of the new season, where the family of alien hunters were looking for him, and he and Martha were in (I think) year 1913, and he’d forgotten who he was, and become human.  The show with the pocket watch.

    At the end, he gave the family what they were wanting all along – the ability to live forever – but in captivity.  Remember, one of them was stuck in mirrors, one was frozen in time and made into a scarecrow.  I don’t remember what he did to the others.

    Smith didn’t have any of the inherent danger that Tennant was capable of bringing.  Even Tennant didn’t bring it often.

    Agree about the annoyance that has worked in the past.  Would enjoy seeing more of that.

    Yes, Clara – her personality seems kind-of modeled after Tennant’s Doctor.  Chatty, gabby, smooth and cool, and really clever.  They didn’t bring her any farther than the brilliant chatterbox.  They could have.  They may.  I hope they do.  Because “clever” characters are a dime a dozen in this series.  And you can’t replicate Rose’s determination, or Martha’s single-minded anger, or Amy’s unbridled joy, or Sarah Jane Smith’s humor and strength…. or hell, even Adric had a thing, a thing that made him different.  I disliked Donna, but her brassiness and screaming, well that made her singular.  Clara is kind of a thing they’ve done before.  I want them to make me love her, or at the very least, KNOW her.

    I’m really excited to see a new direction here.  I really did love Smith – he was joyful and wild, and reminds me of my blessed 20-year-old nephew who has ADHD.  I adore that kid.  So, as a result, I love Matt Smith.  And my daughter is in love with him, and I approve of that wholeheartedly.

    But now, something new, with an actor I really admire.  Here’s hopin for good things.

    ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity

    @fallingfortwelve – Human Nature is one of my favourite new series stories for a lot of reasons (I’m a sucker for historicals for starters) but Tennant’s performance in it is definitely on of the major ones.  He managed to differentiate between the human teacher and the Doctor so well – and those punishments he gave to the family were really chilling.

    I do like Matt in the comedic moments – he’s wonderful at the child in the Doctor – but I have missed the other side of the character and both he and Tennant have resorted a bit too much to raised-voice acting when they’re trying to show the Doctor’s fiercer side.  Considering that Malcolm Tucker is never scarier than when he’s not just yelling his head off, I’m hoping Capaldi will do things a bit differently.

    Maybe Clara will be thrown onto the back foot by a new Doctor? I’m hoping so, she’s a bit too smooth and competent, too much in control with Matt’s Doctor.  I’d like to see her flailing around a bit, at least in the early stages of the series; now they’ve drawn attention to her inner control freak, being a bit of that myself, I’d love to see her being led a bit of a dance.

    Actually, I’d quite like to see River brought back and placed in the same situation when I think about it. If Matt had stayed I don’t think I’d really have wanted to see her back, but now… I can see a Capaldi/Kingston double-act being fantastic.



    hanrjsolo @hanrjsolo

    I just finished watching the new episode of Sherlock and noticed certain letters in the end credits were in red. They spelled out WENGCHIANG. After a quick Google search I found that it’s a reference to a Baker era Doctor Who story arc. My question to you. Is Moffett trolling us or is this legit?

    Charlie Cook @charlie-cook

    May be a reference to Sussex Vampyre. See

    Charlie Cook @cookgroom

    Opps! missed cut-and-paste – May be a reference to Sussex Vampyre. See

    Arjay @arjay

    Hi! I’m new here. Ended up searching for a forum to while away the long wait for the show to come back. Loving the theorizing.

    @arbutus     Often, it is even possible to guess at events that might have encouraged a change in personality in a new incarnation.

    I actually had somewhat similar thoughts and I’m glad someone else thought so too. My theory is that choosing 12th’s face has to do with his purpose. Both Donna and Clara reminded him about being The Doctor and saving instead of merely accepting the death. I’m thinking that association triggered that choice of face in line with his revived purpose of being The Doctor.

    Whisht @whisht

    Hi @arjay – welcome!

    And nice spot!

    “Doctor – you’ve forgotten how to fly this thing??”

    “erm no, it’ll come back, I think… what else do I need to do?”

    “Doctor – you save people. Remember?”

    “yes yes, that was the thing I was thinking of when I regenerated… I save people… that’s why I thought of this face…”


    Anonymous @


    Apologies – I blame my cold for that shocking lack of bonkersness!

    I hope you make that you ‘strap line’. What a great quote 🙂 .  I moved it from your post in TofD, it was too hard to resist.  Your post Re the Bad Wolf theory has reinvigorated me. I now have a new theory about Capaldi’s Doctor (13), that is based on my theory from TotD.  Hold onto your hat for this one.

    As you know I support the theory of two coexisting time lines leading up to TotD. One we watched happen (I believe no longer exists after TotD) and one we did not get to see and know nothing about.  The time line that D13 will follow now is the same one we know nothing about.  It could be very similar to the one we watched, but I don’t think so. 

    The reason I don’t think it was similar is based on all the new characters we saw in TotD. 

    1. Clara’s Mother and Father – I’ve read posts wondering why Clara’s parents don’t seem to be the same ones we saw earlier.  Could they be different people because they are from the other time line we never saw?  I agree with the theories that Clara was adopted, so maybe she was adopted by two different sets of parents? One set from each time line.
    2. Handles – could the cybermen from that time line be friendly?
    3. Tasha Lem – the Doctor seemed to know her very well, and she even knows how to fly the TARDIS.  If she is from the hidden time line, she could be yet another wife similar to River Song or might actually be River after regenerating.   Did she have to use up her regeneration energy to save the Doctor on that time line too?

    My point is that anything would be possible now.  D13 might have amnesia or he might have memories from another life lived on the hidden time line. New faces we have never seen before, that he seems to have known forever. Just like Tasha Lem.

    @purofilion – I’m still working on ideas for Clara and Clock Towers, but nothing has popped into my head yet.  I’m still thinking though. 🙂

    @arbutus and @devilishrobby – I didn’t want to leave you out of this one. 😉

    Bonkerizing Barnable

    wolfweed @wolfweed


    Doctor Who fan art from 1976 drawn by Peter Capaldi!


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