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Hi @janetteb

Yes, New Zealand has the huge advantage of being an island, and the current government did most of the right things and acted fairly promptly.   We were helped by seeing what was already happening overseas, but also, our current government is fairly popular, which undoubtedly helped greatly.   None of the other mainstream parties could see any political advantage in undermining the Government’s lockdown/quarantine measures.   We’re in the middle of an election right now but most of their criticism has been of the occasional failures of quarantine or quibbling about the management of lockdowns, not questioning the need for them.   So whichever party wins, it’s certain that immigration restrictions, quarantine of arrivals and anyone who tests positive for covid, and lockdowns in the event of any outbreaks, will continue at least until a vaccine is found.   We do have our share of conspiracy theorists and lunatic fringe, but – on this issue at least – there are very few of them, everyone has seen the overseas news.

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Hi @janetteb

Spiders. I live in Auckland, NZ (we’re just about to drop back from level 2 Covid to level 1, by the way, Auckland had an outbreak of a couple of dozen cases, mostly only a couple of miles from where I live). But we have very few poisonous spiders and they’re not bad, I think about one person a year gets bitten and no-one dies. We did have lovely (I know you won’t think so) big ‘Avondale spiders’ – I live not far from Avondale – they were Australian Huntsmans that somehow got established. Generally harmless to people, we had one in our garden but I haven’t seen one for years.

But then, in Australia, *all* the wildlife hates you and wants to kill you, or so I’ve heard 😉 We’re luckier here, I like to walk through the bush and I usually go everywhere barefoot, the worst hazard is common yellow wasps. We also have centipedes, which creep me out far worse than spiders, but I’ve only ever seen one big one (6″) and that was caught by a friend’s kids in their garden in the bush.

Anyway, Rosa – I just *know* it’s going to be a story with a moral, and while it’s a very worthy story, it isn’t Doctor Who. I watch Doctor Who for escapism. Also, my aversion to preachiness even extends to things I agree with. For example I’m broadly anti-gun, but I don’t need the Doctor telling me so every five minutes. Of course what is ‘preachy’ is very much personal opinion, some of the Daily Mail readership seem to see the mere fact of the Doctor being female, or Yaz’s mum wondering if Yaz and the Doctor have something going on, as pushing all sorts of feminist/gay messages, I don’t notice that unless the script starts belabouring it. There used to be some popular American TV show, now mercifully faded from my memory, where you could guarantee that the last two minutes would be the ‘hero’ telling his listeners (and the audience) what the moral of the story was. Ruined the whole show for me.

Hope the cat’s visit to the vet was successful, please continue…

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Hi @winston
If you’re intending to watch all of NuWho in order, may I recommend the page at tardis.fandom.com that lists all the eps (you may know it already) https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_television_stories

I found it was the best way to keep track of the inter-series specials (particularly the after-season-4 ones at the end of Tennant’s turn), and it also lists many of the ‘prequels’ and ‘webisodes’ in Seasons 6 to 9 which are well worth watching, though it tends to list them after the relevant season.  But it does give the original airdates so I actually made my own list with all eps and specials and extras in order so I could watch everything in the right order.

 

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Spiders.

Okay, first, I liked this ep, liked Yaz’s family (and her Mum) and the researcher Jade. And some good scary moments (scared me, even though I like big spiders). Would have liked it better but for the plot holes around spiders.

I do agree with the Doctor’s disapproval of guns, except that Chibnall seems to be undercutting his own argument, every time. (In Ghost Monument, no you don’t shoot the sentrybots, just zap ’em with a nuke-like EMP – how is that better?)

But ‘everyone’ seems to have swallowed the implicit idea that shooting is a quick and painless death. This is complete BS. Unless Mr Big was an expert on spider anatomy, and a crack shot, all he was doing was inflicting random pain on it. But was the spider even suffering (before it got shot), or was it slowly drifting away? Humans deprived of oxygen do not suffer, they just lose consciousness (it’s the build-up of carbon dioxide, not lack of oxygen, that triggers the breathing/choking reflex). Maybe spiders are the same. So Mr Big was just torturing a dying creature. Chibnall could have made that obvious, but he let Mr Big off the hook. (And why didn’t the Doctor just sonic Mr Big’s gun to jam?)

And the spiders in the ‘panic room’, where it was implied that it was more ‘humane’ to let them die ‘naturally’ than shoot them. Well, given that shooting is far from painless, maybe it was, but it sounded unconvincing. I prefer to think that Jade would have come back (and did, because they’re still there) with a few cylinders of nitrogen to flood the room’s ventilation system, that would do it.

These plot holes could so easily have been fixed with a couple of lines of dialogue. Why do I get the impression that most of Chibnall’s stories are at first-draft stage and could have done with a bit of decent plot editing?

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Oh, scary episodes?   I think it has to be  Blink, Midnight, and Listen.   It’s always the things you can’t see that scare you the most.   In Blink, the Angels are moving when you can’t see them, so every time you do see them it’s a shock.    In Midnight, you never see the monster (and the mob turning on the Doctor is almost as scary).   And in Listen there are two scenes, one is the Thing that you never see clearly under the blanket, the other even more scary is the banging at the end of the world when there should be nobody there.

But in terms of scary, and it’s not sci-fi, but I think the scariest few minutes I ever saw were in an old Clint Eastwood movie called Play Misty for Me.   Eastwood played a DJ who had an affair with a woman who proved to be mentally unstable (probably couldn’t be made now because, stereotypes) but anyway, she had already stabbed a police detective to death with extreme violence so we (the audience) knew what she was likely to do, and we knew she was waiting somewhere in his house for him, but Eastwood didn’t.   And he came home and the camera followed him as he casually and unsuspectingly wandered from one room to the next, every time he walked through a door you didn’t know if this was going to be the moment she attacked, and when it wasn’t, the tension went up another notch…

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Well, with Good Omens I had an ubergeek moment when I realised the Witchfinder had stuck a pin in a real 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey map. In the wide shot the shape of the roads and river looked familiar to me, I guessed Henley on Thames (it was pure chance I went through there a couple of times on visits) and bingo! – with a bit of searching the map matched exactly. In the close-up, they’d just expertly replaced the word ‘Colstrope’ with ‘Jasmine Cottage’. I was really chuffed at finding the exact location of their mythical cottage. Everything else was unchanged from the real map.
It struck me as a bit odd, because ‘Tadfield’ was supposed to be near Oxford, which would suit with the topography of having an airfield nearby, much too hilly around Colstrope.
Then I found out that my insane map skillz had discovered – what Wikipedia and all the world (except me) knew already, what a let-down.    Seems ‘Jasmine Cottage’ really was filmed at Colstrope Farm, near Hambledon village. The film makers cheekily stuck a pin in the precise position of their filming location (even though it was quite wrong for their story). Not sure if it was an easter egg or thumbing their nose at obsessive map geeks like me. 🙂

Okay, back to Who.   I watched seven minutes of ‘Rosa’ and realised I wasn’t enjoying it.   It wasn’t fun.   I’ve watched ‘Mississippi Burning’ but I don’t really need heavy social history realism on Who.   So I just read the very full synopsis on tardis.fandom.com (there doesn’t seem to be anything significant on terms of the overall storyline) and jumped to the next ep.

I wasn’t expecting anything much, written by Chibnall and with a leaden title like ‘Arachnids in the UK’ – but I was pleasantly surprised.   Liked Yaz’s family, liked Yaz’s mum, liked the woman scientist, the spiders were really creepy (and I *like* lovely big spiders in real life, google ‘Avondale spiders’) but the shot of that mass of them scuttling towards us down a hallway really creeped me out.   The big boss was suitably nasty, if a bit disconcertingly uneven (he fluctuated from gung-ho to cowardly, from obstructive to informative as the plot required), I was sure he was going to try and dispose of all the witnesses.   And really, the old Doctor would not have let him get away with walking out of the hotel claiming a victory, remember what the tenth Doctor did to Harriet Jones?   The scenes with Graham and Grace’s memory were truly sad.   And Jodie’s character is improving, she still did a bit of heavy-handed lecturing but not as much as in the first two eps.

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Hi @janetteb

Nice to hear from you and know I’m not just talking to myself  🙂

As far as having 3 companions goes, I don’t mind them, I just think it diffuses the relationship with the Doctor (which could be either a good or a bad thing).   So far (2 episodes) Ryan and Graham are okay, I moderately like them.   I think Yaz looks the most interesting, but so far she’s not had very much to do, hopefully she gets more in the next few eps.

At times it did feel a bit as if Chibnall was writing an ‘introduction to Doctor Who for new viewers’.   If S12 is better (in your estimation, and I know different people have differing viewpoints, but yours seems to be fairly close to mine so that’s hopefully a good gauge) then that’s encouraging.   I haven’t ordered S12 yet but I will when I get a bit further through S11.

Good Omens (the book) is fairly close to the TV series in its plot, the biggest addition in the TV series is Aziraphael’s and Crowley’s backstory through history, and also (I think) their respective ‘trials’ at the end.   (And I was fooled completely that they’d swapped identities – cunning).   I think they had to add those bits to make up the running time, six hours is a huge length to stretch a story to, I think Gaiman did extremely well not to have any slow flat bits.   Other than that, the TV series is pretty faithful to the book.  And the book is written with Pratchett and Gaiman’s customary skill with words, I’m happy to say.

Speaking of which, have you seen the movie of ‘Stardust’ – I thought that was rather charming.

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Well, I watched the first two eps of Season 11 so far, and called a brief halt.   I have my doubts (in advance) about ‘Rosa’ (Parks?) because it seems to me there are many ways it could go horribly wrong (but I haven’t read any reviews or anything, I don’t till after I watch the ep).   I’ll be relieved if it works, I’m just not so fond of recent-historical figures.

But I’ve ordered Ghost Light, I’ve read that it has a weird plot and spooky parts so I guess that qualifies as a spooky ep?  The first of Old Who that I will have seen in recent decades  (I saw the odd Troughton and Pertwee ep when it was first on, yes I’m that ooold, but never a Sylvester McCoy ep)

Currently partway through watching Good Omens, I loved the book, didn’t know there was a TV series till I was watching Tennant at a con Q&A on Youtube (he’s in it).   Like it very much so far.   If you’re going to have a cast of thousands, that’s the way to do it.

 

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Ummm.   Well, I just posted my impressions of The Woman Who Fell to Earth on that thread.   I was – not horrified, but rather disappointed.   Chibnall does not have the genius for dialogue that the Moff had.   “I’m the Doctor” – at last, finally, but – “sorting out fair play throughout the universe”.    Whaaat?   Who wrote that?   How could Jodie bring herself to say it?   Do they know what ‘bathos’ is?   (Maybe it was intended as a funny line but neither the star nor the director have the timing for that).

I’ve just watched The Ghost Monument.   Like the storyline, great scenery, plenty of drama, only one scientific howler (acetylene rises but it keeps on rising, if there was enough left to ignite there would be, not burning but a massive explosion – acetylene is combustible at anything from 3% to 83% in air, which is a hell of a wide ratio – but I can overlook that).   So, quite a watchable story overall, with even a bit of traditional running-down-corridors, with a satisfying conclusion.    But will someone please stop the Doctor from being so didactic and preachy, it’s just annoying, could someone please make Chibnall cut her speeches in half.   We usually get the idea, whatever it is, it doesn’t need repeating twice over every time for the hard of comprehension.   Zapping robots with a nuke-like EMP is better than shooting them with guns, believing in yourself is a  Good Thing, Teamwork is also a Good Thing, I’m expecting Family Values to raise its head any moment.

And the new Tardis – would be an interesting cavern in a magic castle.   As a space ship, it’s a cluttered mess.   This leaves Capaldi’s great spacious control room as far and away the best Tardis.

I think I’m going to mentally draw a line under Doctor Who at Twice Upon a Time, and regard S11 like a spin-off, that way I can be more charitable about it.    Oh my gods, I’m turning into one of those moaning Old Fans aren’t I?   I’d better stop right now.

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Just re-watched with the commentary track (J Whittaker and the director) on.   Her Yorkshire (?) accent was much stronger on the commentary track, I found it a bit distracting for a Doctor  (which is odd, since I didn’t find Eccleston’s accent weird, nor Tennant or Capaldi’s Scottish ones).    But I’m starting to get used to it.   Not sure if I could say the episode improved with second watching, since I had the commentary track to distract me.   Maybe I’m ready to move on to the next ep.    If the Doctor acquires a bit more gravitas and the dialogue peps up a bit, I’ll accept it, if not I’ll (mentally) draw a line under the end of Moffat/Capaldi’s Doctor and regard season 11 like a spinoff.

(P.S.  Before someone shoots me, I put the ‘(?)’ after ‘Yorkshire’ because I’m no expert on accents, I’m sure somebody will correct me on that).

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Well, just watched it for the first time.     Ummmmmm.    Definitely liked Yaz.  Ryan and Graham were okay, didn’t annoy me.   Jodie Whittaker, I just can’t get enthusiastic about.   Too bland.   She just doesn’t have the impact a Doctor should.   Not helped by the fact that many of her lines were – uninspired.   They didn’t have the sparkle of a Moffat dialogue.   She did a lot of explaining stuff we all know already.   And she really should avoid the goldfish look and keep her mouth shut.   Maybe she’ll grow on me, Matt Smith did.

Grace, now, I really liked.   And she was courageous and adventurous.   AND THEN THEY KILLED HER!  Wtf???   (Actually, I would have loved to see her – the actor that is – as The Doctor.   Now wouldn’t that have triggered a few people.)

The ensemble companions aren’t really my thing – scenes where each one takes it in turn to ‘contribute’ something useful just set off my ‘contrived’ detectors like almost nothing else.

The plot was generally okay.   The writing did actually make me feel sympathetic to some of the red-shirt minor cast – the security guard for example.    But it all felt a bit – routine.

The villain was kinda hokey.   Creepy, but a bit Ice Warrior, and the info-dump he did explaining his entire setup in one go was very obvious (“*INFO-DUMP*” jumped into my brain as soon as he started).   The Moff would have broken it up with (funny/sarcastic) interjections from the Doctor or companions.    The information-gathering ball of snakes was a far more scary ‘monster’.

Not that it matters, but the ‘coming soon’ bit on the end credits was weird, all those people-I’ve-never-heard-of due to appear in future eps does nothing for me, why should I care?   I just hope their bit parts are well written.

As I said, ummmmm.   Hope the next eps improve.

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Weeeeell, just watched Twice Upon a Time (well, a couple of days ago).    Which was pleasant watching, nothing earthshaking like World Enough and Time.    It did have probably the best line in all of Doctor Who – “It’s not an evil plan.   I don’t really know what to do when it isn’t an evil plan.”

Nice bit of fan service with the first Doctor and his Tardis, and I really did like that Testimony gave the Doctor back his memories of Clara.

So now, I’m about to venture into 13th Doctor territory for the first time ever.   Not sure how I feel about this, I’m hopeful if not confident.   I think the Moff will be a very hard act to follow but I usually manage to take each episode on its own terms.

I was actually ready to do this two days ago but then Youtube showed me a link to a Doctor Who panel at some Con, which of course linked to another, and I disappeared down the Youtube rabbit hole for two evenings.   There’s a huge amount of Who peripheral footage on Youtube.   So now I’ve got gigabytes of Con Q&A’s on my hard drive, I’m ready to resume Season 11.    Here goes…

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P.S.   Mondassian Cybermen.     When I first saw a picture of the original cybermen, I cringed.   The most pathetic ‘monster’ ever, only too obviously a person wearing a sock on his head.    Worse ‘special FX’ than Lost in Space.    (Steven Moffatt apparently felt the same – he thought they were rubbish).

Now I have their ‘origin’ story from World Enough and Time, they are by far the most convincing and scary Cybermen of all – precisely because they *are* a (mutilated) human in a sack.   What previously detracted from their believability, now adds to the horror.    I never would have thought that possible.

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World Enough and Time / The Doctor Falls

I’ve just re-watched through them and, wow.  Incidentally, the phrase ‘World enough and time’ is from a poem ‘To his coy Mistress’ written by Andrew Marvell c.1650.   Is this Moff having his little pun on Mistress?   The poem itself is a bit Omar Khayyam-ish, roughly ‘I would take a world of time, but life is short, so we should get a move on’.   Or as Billy said in ‘Blink’, ‘life is short and you are hot’.   I could imagine all sorts of implications for the finale double-episode.

But anyway, the first scene in the space ship is Missy at her most delightful, so what happens next is truly startling and shocking.   Did anyone, ever, imagine for a moment that the blue alien would actually shoot Bill?    (And yet Moff managed to mingle incredibly dark with genuinely funny lines –  “if somebody kills you and it’s not me, we’ll both be disappointed.”)

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a darker fate for a companion than what happened to Bill.    Repeating myself, did anyone ever imagine for a moment that Bill would actually be fully converted into a Cyberman?   At that point everything seemed utterly hopeless for her character.   Seeing Bill slowly realising that she was a Cyberman was probably the most heartbreaking sequence in Who.   So I was utterly delighted when Heather showed up to rescue her.

No, I didn’t think Heather’s rescue was ‘too easy’ or too ‘deus ex machina’, since we were told all about Heather in episode 1, and of course I had completely forgotten about her (like everyone else).   But so what? – logically, it made perfect sense that Heather could have been keeping track of Bill, and when would there ever be a stronger reason for her to show up and rescue her.   I don’t need Moffatt to have kept waving clues in front of me, I *like* it when the writer tells me what he’s going to do in Scene 1 and then takes me by surprise when he does exactly that.   I know there are similarities to Clara’s ‘rescue’ – but obviously not enough similarity that I was led to suspect what was coming.  And I refuse to indulge in the miserly game of ‘if only XX hadn’t been rescued the same way’ – I like Bill, I loved Clara, I’m happy for both of them.

So, fantastic season ender.   I think I still like Hell Bent best, just because it was more fun to watch, but World Enough / Doctor Falls is right up there on the top shelf.

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@oochillyo

Hi Declan, since I’m watching them all in order, the ep I’m about to start next (with due solemnity) is  World Enough and Time / The Doctor Falls.    Because I know it’s the end of the season, the end of Bill, Nardole, the 12th Doctor, Missy, and Moffatt.   The end of almost everything, in other words.     (Yes I know there’s Twice Upon a Time still to come, but that’s not a regular ep).

 

Suggestion for something for you to watch (are any other guys reading this?   Please suggest something for Declan, if so)

If nobody else has any suggestions, and if you want something less serious than World Enough and Time, how about a favourite like The Doctor’s Wife?   Or, if you like Amy,  The Girl Who Waited?   Or, if you haven’t watched it many times already, Blink?   Just random suggestions.

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@oochillyo

Declan,  since the alien is, well, alien, then maybe it could be a humongous bacteria.   That’s no more improbable than any other explanation,I guess.   🙂

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One thing I have to retract from my post at 11:10pm – the yo-yo wasn’t ‘wrong’ as I stated, the Doctor employed it *after* touchdown, not before.   (The synopsis at  tardis.fandom.com  had events out of sequence).   But the Shuttle would still have made a new crater when it hit.

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Maybe my previous post should be in the Kill The Moon forum, which I am now reading, but there’s another point I’d missed, made by Badwulf on 4thOct2014, that the Space Shuttle wouldn’t even be at the Moon because it could barely lift one maximum-size H-bomb into low earth orbit  (Shuttle capacity 24 tonnes, Tsar Bomba weight 27 tonnes)…   why (for the purposes of the story) didn’t Earth just build a super-rocket?

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Kill The Moon – My reservations are twofold: First, I think Doctor Who was maybe unwise to tread so close to the edge on the abortion issue (and I don’t think this is the place to debate that so I won’t give my views on it).

But secondly, and I’ll happily discuss this, is the physical/mechanical impossibilities which are not only featured but lampshaded. Now Moff lampshaded the improbability of Santa and his elves in Last Christmas *but* then he ‘fixed’ it. Not so in KTM, no fix would have worked (other than, ‘it was all an illusion’).

First, the Moon is ‘getting heavier’, with no apparent cause. How? That’s a violation of conservation of matter, one of the fundamental principles of physics – particularly flagrant when you’re invoking physics to explain why that extra mass is causing catastrophic tides on Earth. Then, blowing up the Moon with just 100 H-bombs? – wouldn’t even scratch it, and in any case, if it did disintegrate the Moon all the fragments will just stay orbiting about the same centre of mass. Next, the Space Shuttle, which is a glider when it lands – how did glide to a landing on the Moon with no air to glide with? How was there any apparent gravity to operate a yo-yo? – there should have been NO ‘gravity’ as the Shuttle headed ballistically towards impact.
Next, not a physics point, but how would you get everyone on (half of) Earth to agree to switch their lights off at an hour’s notice? And finally, how does a newly-hatched creature lay an egg of equal size and mass to itself? Oh, one more thing, when that moon-sized dragon flew away – wings? In space? How does that work without air to react against? And flapping in real time, say a 2-second period with an amplitude approximately equal to the Moon’s diameter, which means a peak velocity of 4000 km/sec, or an acceleration of about 400,000g – just exactly what materials is the dragon made of?

Why does that kill the story for me when I can accept ‘bigger on the inside’ and time travel? Because the Tardis is alien tech, whereas the whole premise of KTM is explicitly based on Earth technology and actual physics (for example, the moon having effect on tides).

It’s a matter of context and consistency within the story. The Doctor can ride his old Triumph bike up the Shard (in The Bells of St John) because he’s ‘fixed’ it with alien tech. I’m happy with that. But we *know* that if Clara tried riding her perfectly-ordinary little bike up that it would instantly fall off and seriously injure her, because ‘real’ earth physics applies. Following any story requires an assumption that things will work as they do in our world *unless* there is some special reason, supplied by the story, for them to work differently. Fire and bullets and lack of air will kill you. Water is wet and (some) things float on it. People can’t fly (without help). And so on.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by  Dentarthurdent. Reason: Corrected accleration to 400,000g

[Dentarthurdent @replies]

Hi Declan

Kill the Moon – I see you concentrated on the human relationships.   It wasn’t that that turned me off KTM, it was the atrocious physics (but then I’m an engineer).

However, to answer your points (with what I remember from a few weeks ago) –  first off, Courtney was really, really annoying.   I would have chucked her off the Tardis for everyone’s safety, you just *know* she’s going to do something stupid that endangers everybody.    I think Clara was quite wrong to force the Doctor to take her.

I would absolutely have killed the moon alien *if* it was sure the alien would kill all life on earth.   But of course this was a huge unknown.   I absolutely sympathise with Clara’s fury at the Doctor abdicating responsibility and putting her in the hot seat – he *must* have known the probable results (or been able to predict them), it’s the sort of thing he does all the time.   Was he just leaving Clara to it to teach her a lesson? – totally uncalled-for, hugely excessive, friends don’t treat friends like that, and risking the future of life on earth on a last-minute decision by Clara or anybody else is NOT the sort of thing the Doctor would do, ever.   (I just read the synopsis at tardis.fandom.com, the Doctor *did* know.   That is virtually inexcusable).

So, even on ‘relationships’ factors, I wouldn’t have liked the ep.   The only good thing was the monumental clash between Clara and the Doctor at the end, but (IMO) that could have been engineered in a far more credible way without having the Doctor go so out-of-character.

I seem to recall the lights-on/lights-off scenario was contrived because communications were breaking down.   The time for a radio signal would be the same as the time to see lights – just over a second.

Think I’ll make a separate post of why the ep totally failed in physics terms – you can probably safely ignore it   🙂

 

 

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@oochillyo

Hi Declan

Up to you if you want to share your thoughts on Kill The Moon.   I’d be interested,  can’t promise to agree but that doesn’t matter.    This is a democracy   🙂

 

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P.S.   Intriguing that the Tardis’s translation field extended to the cave the Romans were hiding in and the cairn at the Gate – and presumably the Doctor must have ‘fixed’ it so the field persisted inside the Gate forever, for the benefit of the Picts and Romans (or maybe by the time the field wore off they would have evolved a pidgin)

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Well, I survived Who going full Edgar Rice Burroughs (the Martian one).    So now I’m up to Eaters of Light, which I like a lot better.   The Roman soldiers/deserters were surprisingly decent fellows, I was much amused that they found Bill’s sexual preferences quaintly old-fashioned.   (That’s two lots of deserters in a cave in two episodes).    I actually understood the rationale for the Romans/Picts guarding the gate at the end of the ep, much better this time around (better than my first view a year ago) – due to the time slip, their ‘lifetime’ inside the gate was virtually ‘forever’ in our world.

I have a slightly melancholic feel watching this ep, because I know it’s the last ‘regular’ ep, tomorrow is the beginning of the end.

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@oochillyo

Hi Declan

Well, Martha was the only NuWho companion who left of her own volition. I liked Martha and would have happily watched her in another season, but if she had to leave I applauded her decision. It was certainly a ‘different’ way to leave. I suppose having developed a crush on the Doctor, it might have been a little difficult to write her for another season.

I was a bit unhappy that a bright young doctor got turned into a soldier; but more so that she ended up married (?!) to Mickey, the useless boyfriend. Okay, so he improved a bit, but he was never the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. And why married, ffs? Martha and Mickey, either or both, could have been shown fighting Sontarans without needing that. It did absolutely nothing for Martha, IMO. Maybe it was supposed to be a consolation prize for Mickey, but I couldn’t care less about that. And I couldn’t see any chemistry between them. If there had been any story between them in episodes there might have been some basis for it, but coming out of nowhere – as I said earlier, I think it was just RTD trying to tie up loose ends that weren’t really loose and didn’t need tieing. I’m quite happy to leave their futures undefined and their options open.

Umm, I’m in danger of contravening the rules (and my own unwritten rule) about too much negativity so I’d better stop there. If you like to fanfic their relationship then good for you.

(My unwritten rule – 1. Don’t be negative about too much, and 2. The fans (including me) don’t own the characters, the production staff do. So what they say is canon. Without them, there would be nothing for the fans to be fannish about.)

 

[Dentarthurdent @replies]

Hi Declan

Absolutely no offence taken.   The misunderstanding was perfectly natural, and arose out of my own wording, so I can’t blame anyone else.    There’s nothing wrong with being a professional reviewer, I was just in a hurry to correct it because I’m not one.   Back to episodes…

Certainly Bill was taking major risks in ‘Pyramid at the end of the earth’, the Monks might have fried her like they did the generals, or done something else dreadful to her, she didn’t know. And one might say she had no business trading the Earth in return for fixing the Doctor. And in Lie of the Land, again Bill risked getting her brain fried, and was the cause of the Monks defeat. (In fact, both those times, I think Bill was taking on more authority than Clara ever did). Of course, when Bill finally met her end (at the end of the season), it wasn’t as a result of anything like that, more just an accident. But being around the Doc was always a high-risk occupation. Another season with Capaldi and Bill, show-run by Moffatt, would have made me happy, but I guess after 6 seasons Moff was entitled to call ‘enough’.

I did like Martha, and I cheered when she very sensibly walked out on the Doctor (but they parted on good terms). She could see that she was getting stuck on him but all he could see was the ghost of Rose. But then she didn’t really escape, she got caught up with Unit (I’m ignoring Torchwood since I’ve only seen it once) – and then ended up fighting Sontarans with Rose’s cast-off Mickey. Wtf? That did not make me happy. And it was so – unnecessary, just for a 30-second scene at the end of an ep, tying up a loose end that really didn’t need to be tied up.

Doctor Mysterio was okay as a Christmas special, I enjoyed watching it, certainly didn’t hate it. Grant (and maybe his girlfriend also) would have been okay as companions, though maybe a bit reminiscent of Amy and Rory (though I guess by now any companion(s) are going to be reminiscent of earlier ones). I think Grant was ‘The Ghost’, wasn’t Doctor Mysterio actually the Doctor?

Though my favourite Christmas ep of recent years has to be Last Christmas, for several reasons – first, because of Santa and his cheeky/sarcastic elves. We know Doctor Who is sci-fi, not fantasy, so what are mythical fairytale characters doing in it? Fairytale figures who are doing their very utmost to draw our attention to their impossibility, furthermore. And then it turns out there’s a good sci-fi reason for them to exist *and* for them to be waving their unreality in our faces! Second, because of the Inception-meets-Alien vibe. And just when you think you’ve woken up, it turns out you’re still in the dream. That’s always effective. I love it when writers do that to me (some people get all indignant about being fooled. I’m delighted if it’s well done). Sometimes the ‘it was a dream’ reset button is an expedient used by lazy writers to get them out of a plot hole, but not in this case. Certainly not when we’ve been told explicitly what the Dream Crabs do and given every clue to the puzzle. That ep was one that repaid watching about three times.

 

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Hi Declan

No, *I am not a professional reviewer*

Sorry for shouting, but I want to kill that idea before it even gets started.

I realise having said “some reviewers disagree with me” could give that impression, but I certainly hadn’t intended to.   My fault for not being clearer.    But no, I’ve never done a ‘review’ of any Doctor Who episode.   My comments on this site are just random thoughts and opinions, like yours and everybody else’s.    If I’m familiar with what some reviewers say, it’s only because I’ve been Googling some of their reviews after I watch episodes.

I have nothing against professional reviewers, and in a different world I wouldn’t mind being one, but I have a strong urge not to misrepresent myself.    I’ll comment further about the companions in a few moments, but I just wanted to get that in quick

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@oochillyo

Hi Declan
Please don’t ‘dread’ Empress of Mars. Nothing horrible happens to Bill or the Doctor. I just think it’s a ho-hum episode that can safely be ignored.
By the way, I was just plagiarising ‘Pookieuk’s inevitable contribution to the Guardian comments pages of every ep – first message, always, ‘Well, that was no Robot of Sherwood’. Actually I’ve just noticed both eps have the same author, well I found Robot to be not great, but more fun. To be fair, some reviewers disagree with me, but then they’re often all over the map, what one reviewer thinks is a strong point another one will hate.

Bill is rapidly growing more competent, notably in the Monks trilogy. (This is probably why I had a vague memory impression of the next ep, Eaters of Light as having featured Clara as the companion, but I couldn’t find it in her episodes – now I know why). Bill should be very, very afraid – Bad Things happen to Companions who get too good at the job 😉

(Damn.    Had a wifi glitch and lost half the message and had to retype it.   I should know to write these things in a text editor and copy&paste when finished!).

 

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Um.  Just watched Empress of Mars.   Well that was no Robot of Sherwood.   More like Love & Monsters or Fear Her.   It just seemed to me that the plot and much of the dialogue was entirely by-the-numbers Indiana Jones – not something I notice very often in recent series of Who.   Just one good moment – when the slimy lieutenant *actually got shot dead* by his ex-commanding officer.

But I’ve just realised, I only watched the Monks trilogy (Extremis, Pyramid, Lie of the Land) through once, so tomorrow I’ll do a repeat of those (and doubtless some of the apparent plot points in Extremis will appear in slightly different light now I know the denouement – better or worse I’m not sure, it will be interesting to find out.    Many of Moffatt-era plots deserve watching through twice, first time to get the ‘feel’ of it, second time to understand it).    Then I’ll skip straight to Eaters of Light.

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@janetteb

Thinking it over, I’m inclined to waver a bit about the Rose-Tennant pairing.    Looking back at my self-compiled sequence-of-episodes list (which I created  so I could watch all the odd prequels and webisodes in the right order, but I also ‘shaded’ the episodes according to how good I thought they were), I agree Season 2 is fairly weak.   Note that Seasons 1 and 2 appeared much stronger *at the time* because we hadn’t seen subsequent seasons to compare with.

My least favourite companion is Donna – you know what they say about first impressions.   Donna had probably the worst introduction – the Doctor was in shock and grief at losing Rose and all of a sudden there’s this shouty woman, destroying the mood.   Absolutely not the way to make friends and influence people.   Also, her introductory episode was – not the best.   If she’d been introduced more gently (like, say, Martha was) then maybe I might like her better.

I haven’t seen any of Seasons 11-12 yet, though I’ve got Season 11 (still sealed) and I’ll pick up S12 at some point.   I’m steadily working right through New Who (went back to Rose, now I’m up to The Lie of the Land) so I’ll carry straight on to S11 when I get there.   I’m spacing out my binge-watching by indexing/editing old photos, thousands of them, I’m 3 years behind on that, but Covid restrictions are a good prompter to start catching up.   3 years ago I travelled on the Trans-Siberian from Vladivostok to Moscow and I took 6000 (!) photos in six days; that’s 1000 a day, one a minute or one per mile on average.   Sounds a lot but when you’re sitting in a very comfortable train with a camera and not much else to do but watch the scenery, and clicking (with digital) costs nothing except a lot of time editing later on, but I’ll likely never be there again – might as well take a lot.   Literally half the photos will be no good because of random poles etc in the way, maybe only 10% will be usable.    The other remarkable thing is, I can pinpoint many of them to the nearest yard (in the middle of Siberia!) with the aid of Google Maps Satellite View, I never expected that when I was taking them.   But it does make indexing them much slower which is why it’s taken me a month to (virtually) get to the outskirts of Moscow at last.    I’d rate Google Maps as the greatest thing on the Internet; or at least as beneficial as Youtube.    Just think how science-fiction-y it would have seemed when Doctor Who started (or maybe even when Rose first screened) that I can access, for free and within seconds, a close-up aerial view of almost anywhere on Earth.

So that’s what I do on the sofa   🙂

 

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Hi @janetteb

I see you posted while I was posting.   Nice to hear from you.   I really don’t have much to discuss about your post since I agree with all of it  🙂

Nardole, I didn’t rate very highly in his first appearance – didn’t dislike him, just didn’t take to him much.   But he ‘grew’ on me, he’s well written and I have to admit Matt Lucas delivers his lines extremely well.   Yes I would have been happy to see Bill and Nardole go for another season.

I was very surprised at the development in Pyramid where Bill asked the Monks for help; I had thought the Doctor would get out of his dilemma some other way.   I can’t really blame Bill for doing that.   I’m a bit surprised – since the Monks had just fried the three generals for their ‘strategic decision’ – that they accepted that Bill had the authority to do that.   How?   As representative of the Doctor who was currently president of Earth? – that was stretching it a bit, particularly since the President explicitly disapproved.    Obviously it suited the Monks to go along with it (but then why were they so persnickety about their little rule in the first place with the generals?)   In retrospect, that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but – like the Monks – I’ll go along with it for the sake of the story   🙂

I was also surprised (and quite impressed) when Bill – obviously suffering from buyer’s remorse – filled the Doctor full of lead, even if they turned out to be blanks (which also surprised me).   I didn’t know she had it in her.

 

 

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@oochillyo

Well, I haven’t seen anything past Twice Upon a Time, so far.   (My favourite line, ever, goes something like: “Oh, it isn’t an evil plan.   I really don’t know what to do when it isn’t an *evil* plan.”)     I gather Graham is Bradley Walsh, who I only know from The Chase – from what I’ve seen there he could be good in the role  (you’ve got to be very good to read a complicated quiz question quickly and clearly so a contestant isn’t left wondering ‘what did he say?’)   Just imagining, yes having Bradley and Nardole verbally butting heads could be very good indeed, though I think ideally they’d need Moffatt’s writing to give them the best material to work with.

My favourite Doctor-companion pairing?   I think the War Doctor and The Interface (Billie Piper), brief though that was.     After that, the 12th Doctor and Clara – Capaldi is such a strong sharp-edged character he needed someone assertive to challenge him.   Though Bill did shoot him, so there’s that…

Other than that, Rose and Tennant, though slightly impaired by too much emotion at times – I think Moffatt writes emotional moments much better than RTD, this is a case where less is more, much better to hold back on the acting and let the viewers feel the emotion.

To respond to Winston – I think that bunch of companions, all at once (if that’s what you meant), is just too much.    Two or three people (i.e. one or two companions) offers an interesting dynamic; adding more, even if they’re excellent characters, just dilutes it.   Less is more, again.

That’s IMO, of course.   I’m visualising some awful scenes with ‘ensemble’ shows where it’s painfully obvious the characters have had the lines shared out equally among them, probably by contractual obligation.   On the other hand, if the characters are properly written as individuals, it can be made to work.   I’m thinking of Blakes 7 for example.   Though it rarely had all seven (or 5, or whatever) on screen at once, it broke it up into twos or threes which made it manageable.

 

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@oochillyo

Hi Declan

Series 10 ep 6 – that’s where I am.   I just watched Extremis – Pyramid at the end of the world – The Lie of the Land trilogy straight through.   They’re all pretty good, I think, though I think they could have been condensed to a double episode.  As always, I love the flashes of humour with Nardole and Missy.

I’ll try to avoid any too-detailed spoilers:    I was rather horrified that Bill actually caved in to the Monks to save the Doctor (I’d forgotten that development from the first time I watched).   Oddly, I thought I remembered that Erica (the lab worker) had sacrificed herself to save the Doctor, which didn’t happen – I must be misremembering some similar occurrence in another episode.   But then I was really impressed with how far Bill was prepared to go in her confrontation with the Doctor in The Lie of the Land (you’ll see what I mean when you get to it).   On my first viewing that sequence of scenes had me all over the map.

Too bad about Bill’s love life, she just has no luck at all in that direction.

Good to see Missy again, she is quite the most deliciously wicked mischievous villain ever.   She has style.

Okay, that’s enough for tonight.

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@oochillyo

Hi Declan

In The Forest Of The Night doesn’t really bother me with its incredibly rapid tree growth. Maybe because I’m a tree-hugger so the idea of more trees is congenial to me. But I think, more, because it’s biology – something I’m less involved with and less finicky about than physics or mechanics (I’m an engineer). And it’s a bit more mystical, so I can give it a pass.

Kill The Moon, on the other hand, emphasises physics and current Earth technology right from the start, so the problems are highlighted for me. The closer to current technology something is, the more any ‘impossibility’ drops me out of the story (unless it’s explained as alien tech). I get a bit uncomfortable at ‘HMS Valiant’ the flying aircraft carrier in David Tennant episodes, and very leery at the space-flying Spitfires in Victory of the Daleks. The nuclear sub gently planted in the desert in Pyramid at the End of the World, on the other hand, doesn’t worry me, in fact I love it, because ‘it’s the aliens that did it’.

Clara ‘having power’ in Kill The Moon – well she didn’t want it (who would?). It wasn’t her choosing. That was kind of the point. The Doctor forced her into that position and she was furious about it (and I don’t blame her). (Making ‘the world’ vote by turning off their lights was another thing that jarred on me, how would anyone even organise that?   Without the usual perverse 10% who have to do the opposite just because they can?) The best thing about that ep was the subsequent verbal clash between Clara and the Doctor. While I like it when they get along, I also like the drama when they don’t.

As for being ungrateful in Hell Bent – the Doctor was proposing to wipe her memory and put her ‘somewhere safe’ – how would that have worked? There was a lot of (fan) indignation when the Doctor did just that to Donna, and she had a comfortable niche to settle back into (and she never seemed to appreciate the adventures while she was having them, unlike Clara, who came to live for them, almost literally). Ashildr/Me didn’t have any power other than what she had learned to take for herself. Immortality could be a curse as much as a blessing. Clara and Me took what was the best option left for them. Who can blame them? (Well, I can’t).   And Clara did take care to rescue the Doctor’s Tardis for him, track him down and plant it where he would find it.

But then, I like Clara and have done ever since Asylum of the Daleks, so I’m biassed.

Are you watching the episodes in any sort of sequence?   I’m a little bit puzzled  as to where you’re up to.

 

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@oochillyo

Hi Declan

I’ll admit right off I’m no expert in physiology and I didn’t do any research on space. I based my answer mostly on physics. I’m starting to question my own assumptions.

Um, there’s (as usual) a host of ‘answers’ on the Internet, some of which are obviously made up. But one I found (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/ ) suggests up to three minutes. But anyway, we know that the Doctor gave Bill his own helmet at some point, at which point her suit (presumably) automatically repressurised. I guess this was before the critical time had elapsed.

And on reflection the electric shock is a bit dodgy too. Enough current can cause permanent damage, on the other hand a small current (not enough to cause physical damage) can still stop someone’s heart. In which case the Doc would have had to give Bill a restart inside four minutes. Oh, but here we are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronarcosis.      Though I doubt the ‘procedure’ would be accompanied by blue sparks everywhere.

So I think it’s ‘near enough’. (The episode that really causes me problems is ‘Kill the Moon’, the mechanics is just impossible right from the landing of a Space Shuttle – a big *glider* – on an airless moon. Tardis – fine. A Space Shuttle with no help from alien tech – never. And it gets worse from there. I’m an engineer. The nearer something is to present reality, the harder I find it to ‘suspend disbelief’).

Re ‘Listen’; it really didn’t worry me that Clara ‘gets all the power’, in fact I don’t think she does. She certainly isn’t exercising it consciously. Clara didn’t intend to make the Doctor afraid of the dark, it was just how fate played out. Same as I don’t hate Me for the death of Clara in Face the Raven, she hadn’t intended it. Again, Fate (which is just a fancy word for sh*t happens, IMO). I don’t think the Doctor has to be the hero of every episode, so long as it’s interesting (take ‘Blink’, for example, nobody seems to worry that it’s all about Sally Sparrow).

Okay, that’s enough from me.

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Well, when it comes to surviving in space, the answers are not as obvious as one might think.

I believe there is a limit of approximately 4 minutes that the brain can survive (at normal temperatures) without a blood supply, before damage starts to happen (much longer in cases of extreme hypothermia, but that wouldn’t apply). Holding breath would be a bad idea, breathing out just empties your lungs, I guess then the moisture in them would start to evaporate but with no airflow to accelerate the ‘drying’ process I imagine it wouldn’t be too quick. I don’t think you’d have any ‘suffocation’ feeling since that’s caused by CO2 build-up, not lack of oxygen. ‘Freezing’ or hypothermia would not be a worry in the short term; although space is extremely cold, vacuum has no ‘heat capacity’ and no conductivity, you’d only lose heat very slowly by radiation – quite unlike cold temperatures on Earth. I think, eventually, the lack of external pressure might cause bubbles to form in your bloodstream and that would be nasty. Short answer, as long as they got Bill back into a ‘normal’ environment within 4 minutes she should be fine.

As for her subsequent electric-shock-induced ‘death’, it appears she was just rendered momentarily unconscious – entirely possible and has happened frequently, though I wouldn’t care to predict in advance whether a shock would kill someone or not, presumably the Doctor can. I assume cutting through the door was Bill’s suit in control, and the Doctor then ‘revived’ Bill.

So, I have no problem accepting both incidents.

Series 8 – are you up to ‘Listen’ yet? I love that episode, both for its unconventional approach (the Doctor sitting on the Tardis talking to camera), the interplay between the Doctor and Clara (which is brilliant as always), and by far the two scariest ‘monsters that might not exist’ ever – the thing under the blanket, and the noise in the empty future base. As always, what you can’t see is much more scary than what you can.

I did Series 8 a month ago but it’s still fresh in my mind so happy to discuss episodes. I’m currently on S10, ‘Extremis’ is next, which I recall as an excellent ep from my previous watch-through.

Nice to talk to you, kinda wondering if anyone else will join in?

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Hi Declan

Well I left a respectful gap in my viewing after Hell Bent (which was a magnificent episode IMO), out of respect for the departed Clara.   We all have different favourite companions but Clara’s one of mine.   And I wanted to savour that ep before I went on.

Currently just watched Oxygen – excellent episode, Jamie Mathieson’s one of the best writers (I loved Flatline).   I actually dared to read the comments ‘below the line’ in the Guardian review for the first time in a couple of seasons (it was the whining there that first sent me to this site), but this time the complaints were mostly absent, quite a few commenters were amused by the effect its treatment of toxic capitalism would have on Daily Mail readers.   (What, did nobody ever watch the Alien series?   Weyland-Yutani?)   On the other hand, it got in a pretty good swipe at overbearing ‘health & safety’ measures.   But anyway – gripping episode.   And it all hangs together pretty well, actually I understand it better on  the second viewing – e.g. the Doctor’s ‘suicide’ reprogramming of the computer made the suits’ control program redo its profit calculation.   I know the script said as much but the episode was so packed with developments, that didn’t really register on me first time.

I loved the bickering between Nardole and the Doctor – (Bill:) What’s a fluid link?   Nardole:  No idea. But the Tardis can’t go anywhere without it.   Doctor: Who told you that?   Nardole: You did.  Doctor (fiendish grin): Exactly. (Slams ‘takeoff’ lever down).

So when I’ve worked through Season 10, I’ll carry on to my (as yet unopened) Season 11 boxset.   I’m hoping it will be good, I have niggling doubts whether a new show runner can match the Moff but we’ll see.   Female Doctor, no problem, but it all depends on the actor and the writing.   We’ll see.   Tough luck on Bill, only one season.

 

 

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@janetteb

Thanks for your kind comment.   It’s almost like therapy for me to write comments on an episode which made a deep impression on me, as this one did (specially since it’s the farewell to Clara).   I watch the episode, then I want to do something to celebrate the qualities of the episode, or just to ‘wind down’ from the emotional high that it induces.    Obviously everyone who watched it at the time has had their discussion, years ago.   The best I can manage is to post my comments in some suitable spot  (like Rigsy painting the Tardis? – that’s way too fanciful a comparison!) and if someone happens to read them and respond – well, that’s nice.   Thank you janetteB.   🙂

 

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Thanks @winston

Just a couple more reflections. I said previously that putting Clara back in London would have created a time paradox. But then the Doctor said he would put her ‘somewhere safe and out-of-the-way’. But (if her pulse had returned) then when she died (again) a paradox would arise. If her heart hadn’t restarted she would have been in a strange position, not knowing why or how. Flying off with Me in the Tardis was certainly her best option. Would the Time Lords bother to pursue them? Maybe not, they didn’t seem to bother too much about chasing the Doctor except when they had a specific aim in mind.

Just re-watching – the first ten minutes are pure spaghetti Western. Once Upon a Time in the West is my favourite, and Rachel Talalay is taking a leaf out of Sergio Leone’s book, with the near-wordless, unhurried, almost stylised action, in a vast open space. And Murray Gold has gone full Morricone. Gallifrey looked gorgeous, as did Skaro at the start of the season.

I had thought that the Doctor losing his memory in the Tardis, then being woken by a passer-by, then walking into the diner were successive events. But obviously not, since, between being woken and the initial Diner scene the Doctor had acquired an old pickup truck, and he said he’d been to London to look for the Tardis. Which confused me a bit initially, but there’s actually no conflict there. But in that case, Clara must have dropped the unconscious Doctor off, collected the Tardis from London, and then waited weeks for the Doctor to travel to London and back the slow way, and materialised the Diner on the Doctor’s route. But then, the dialogue of the final scene with Clara and Me makes it appear as if it follows closely on the Tardis memory-loss scene. I suppose in Diner time that was possible – dump the Doctor, collect Tardis, and jump some weeks into the future for Clara’s final encounter to return the Tardis. Does this mean Clara was watching over the Doctor to make sure he was all right? I guess that’s okay with me.

I watched the scene in the diner with even more attention this time round. Of course it was written so, first time through, we didn’t know which one had lost their memory. Clever Moffat, operating on so many levels. But now *we* know: so, did the Doctor guess who Waitress Clara was? He must have become certain when the diner dematerialised and he saw Clara’s portrait on his Tardis. But did he know from the first moments and he was just hiding that from Clara? In which case “If I met her again, I would absolutely know” was a double bluff. Well I still can’t tell. But after reading many posts in this thread, I’ve concluded that “Memories become stories when we forget them” was a very cogent statement. I think the Doctor could remember the facts of most of his interactions with Clara, just the emotional impact was missing – for him. But still very much there for Clara. Those scenes in the diner are beautiful. Superlative acting. “You said memories become stories when we forget them. Maybe some of them become songs.” Awwww.

 

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@janetteb

Hi JanetteB

Pleased you liked Day of the Doctor.

You mentioned  Good Omens  in an earlier note – that’s a pretty good book too.   I particularly like the interplay between the angel Aziraphale and the demon Crowley – two soldiers on opposing sides in an outpost who realise they have more interests in common with each other than they do with their respective commands.

I don’t know if you know Neil Gaiman’s  Stardust  – that’s pretty good too, and a very entertaining movie version.   I find Gaiman’s stories (at least the few I’ve read/watched) to be pleasantly good-humoured.   That goes for The Doctor’s Wife too.

Also Terry Pratchett’s Discworld novels – I have all of them (I think), though I prefer his earlier ones to his later ones.   I find his Discworld quite reminiscent in tone to Doug Adams’  Hitchhiker universe, even though Discworld is explicitly fantasy and Hitchhiker is explicitly sci-fi.   But if you arbitrarily swapped wizards and werewolves and spells in a Pratchett for mad scientists, weird alien monsters, force fields and androids  I think it would ‘feel’ just like an Adams manuscript (or vice versa).

When I was young and foolish I favoured sci-fi and looked down on ‘fantasy’ – but now I’ve concluded the dividing line is narrow and probably fractal –  Pratchett vs Adams being exhibit #1.

The one thing all my favourite writers have in common is a way with words.   It’s a gift, I think.   No matter how inventive or exciting the plot is, the moment it starts to read like a police report I lose interest.   But if the phrasing is original enough I can keep reading for hours.

 

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First, I think Missy (above) is correct when she says that Clara thinks the Doctor is outside the Tardis when he says “It’s me”.

Now back to my reaction to the episode…

Wow. Just, wow.

I just watched Hell Bent and it is an emotional rollercoaster. Besides being a beautiful-looking ep (especially after the grimness of Heaven Sent).

The whole recurring scene with the Doctor and Clara in the diner was delightful but bittersweet, with that special kind of delicious irony that imbues lines that have more levels of meaning than the characters realise. (There should be a word for that but I can’t think of it). As when Clara says “She could be me, for all you know”, and Clara knows it, we know it, but the Doctor doesn’t. That entire scene had me smiling but my eyes were damp.

Those scenes where the Doctor confronted the military might of Gallifrey – and they all deserted and walked over to his side – were amazing, visually and dramatically. I did like that the pilot of the gunship was so careful and restrained – obviously acting under orders, but highly professional. And the General, too, was unfailingly polite and honourable – I felt rather sorry for him/her when the Doctor first clocked him one then shot him. But I had to admire the economy of the exchange – “Regeneration?” “Tenth” “Good luck” “You too, sir”

And it took me entirely aback (though it shouldn’t have) when the direction of the story changed abruptly from the Doctor as new Lord President to suddenly going rogue and absconding with Clara.

All the dialogue was beautifully written, from the frivolous – for example why the Doctor never asked how the Time Lords unfroze Gallifrey – “I didn’t ask. It would have made them feel clever” to the intense, as with Clara’s dialogue with the Doctor in the crypt, to the really clever reveals such as Clara’s answer when Ohila asked what she said to the Doctor – “Nothing I’m going to tell you. Except maybe this one part. I said Don’t worry, Doctor. They’ll all be looking at me” and the camera pans back to reveal an open trapdoor where the Doctor had been. I’m a sucker for clever and original dialogue.

The whole episode was just crammed with little Easter eggs for fans, such as the knocking on the door at the end of the Universe – four knocks, of course. But we never did find out whether the Hybrid was Ashildr/Me, or the Doctor (who might be half-human), or the Doctor plus Clara, and it didn’t really matter. It was just a mystery myth encouraged by the Doctor so the Time Lords would have to let him finish his ordeal on Gallifrey. I did ask myself, why did the Doctor encourage this mystery in the first place, since it made the Time Lords kidnap him and Clara got killed in the process? But my answer is, he didn’t – if he’d been captured (with Clara still alive) he might have simply told everything he knew and got let out of the Confession Dial; but when Clara died, he formulated the plan to make it back to Gallifrey (the slow way) and use Time Lord tech to save Clara.

And – this is where the emotional roller-coaster kicked in again – the realisation that Clara’s pulse wasn’t going to restart. The second time in three episodes that Clara’s had bad news, as in fatal, though this time it was the Doctor’s miscalculation not her own. And the scene where Clara would rather die than lose her memory was tragic. (Of course this wasn’t new, Donna underwent the same thing. The difference was, Donna had an established life to slot back into). That aside, I think the Doctor hadn’t thought it through – if he took away Clara’s memories of him, and even if her pulse restarted, what was he going to do with her? He couldn’t put her back in London at the time of her death – time paradox. He couldn’t keep her with him in the Tardis if she had no memory of him. Where could he put a girl with no pulse?

As it turned out, Clara found her own niche – travelling in the Tardis with Me. But that final scene in the diner was as touching as any ‘parting’ scene in Doctor Who (even though the Doctor didn’t know it). I think Moffat managed the most skillful ‘loss of a companion’ sequence in all of SciFi. He managed to spread it out over two episodes so I feel she’s been properly farewelled, without dwelling on long teary farewells. Much better if the characters restrain their emotion and let the audience do the feeling for them.   And personally I love that Clara’s not dead-and-gone, even if we won’t be seeing her again.    I rather like to imagine the concept of Clara and Me spreading a little bit of chaos through the Universe.

 

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Is this the library?  Ah, good.   Where’s the swimming pool?

I just read ‘The Day of the Doctor.’ I don’t normally bother with ‘the book of the film’ or ‘the book of the TV series’ because it’s often a disappointment – the magic that the director and actors created on screen may not be echoed by the skill of the author. And sometimes vice versa – an author can weave fascinating patterns of words on the page that may not translate to the screen. And quite frequently the book, the play, the TV series and the film may be quite different works – looking at you, Hitchhiker’s Guide 🙂

But I was recently Googling for any interviews with Moffat (or the cast) of The Day of the Doctor because, unaccountably, the DVD doesn’t have a commentary (why is it so often the mediocre eps that have commentaries while the awesome eps don’t?) when I came across a page of the book on Goodreads. And Moff has a sufficiently good way with written words that I ordered the book.

Well, I’m pleased to say the book wasn’t a disappointment. It sticks fairly closely to the events of the episode (the Night of the Doctor included), with a few extra scenes added, which either weren’t in the TV script or got cut, most likely the former. It also has entertaining ‘meta’ notes before each chapter, a little like DNA used to include but more extensive. The only bit missing was the presence of the Interface in the background of several scenes (she was in the barn with the War Doctor of course), I suppose because two-thirds of the Doctors (who were sharing the narration) couldn’t see her. I actually missed that, since her presence livened up many of those scenes (the Interface is such a scene-stealer, and I mean that in a good way 🙂

So, it goes on my bookshelf, it’s a keeper.

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Just watched it again (I watch all the really good episodes twice, even on a re-watch through the series like I’m doing) and this time the last ten minutes had even more effect on me.    I liked the touch that Clara ordered Me to take the teleport bracelet off the Doctor before she would let Me take the shade off her – that’s Clara, trying to take control of the situation.   (That was the moment Me and the Doctor realised in shock that Clara had the shade, they both knew the implication of that).    I was damn near in tears as the realisation dawned on Clara that she wasn’t getting out of this one.

This is not only the best ‘parting’ scene in Doctor Who, it’s the best death scene I have ever watched in scifi.   And it’s precisely because all the actors dial back on the emotion and heroics and leave it to the viewer to feel it.   Oh, and excellent writing.

 

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I’m in a mild state of shock. (Even though I have watched the episode previously, a year ago). So even though I know (this time) what’s going to happen, this episode can still move me profoundly. And I shed a tear at the coda of Rigsy’s little shrine to Clara at the abandoned Tardis.

On my first watch through a year ago, though I knew Clara was leaving at the end of the season, I hadn’t expected this ending. The episode started off so fun and light, Clara on 110%, yes indeed a bit wild and reckless but she carries it off well. And there was an intriguing mystery premise (trap streets), followed by the ongoing mystery of who or why Rigsy had been set up. And right up to the point where Ashildr/Me couldn’t take the curse off, I never suspected that Clara wasn’t going to get out of it. But the contrivance of the Raven (I guess it could be equated to a curse) was well ‘sold’ such that I never questioned it.

On the re-watch, I’ve realised that all the characters acquitted themselves honourably at the end – Clara, the Doctor, Rigsy, even Ashildr (who never intended harm to Rigsy or Clara). But they’ll all be feeling enormously guilty. Excellent writing and acting all round, especially Capaldi and Jenna. I can’t hate anybody (except maybe the unknowns who were blackmailing Ashildr) – it has the feeling of a Shakespearean tragedy – good deeds never go unpunished.

Was Clara’s death not important enough – she died by unlucky accident, not knowing what she was risking and not saving the world, just saving a graffiti artist?   I know some people think that way.   But I don’t agree.   Tragedy happens all the time by the most trivial chances, all we can do is deal with it.   I loved that Clara ordered the Doctor ‘no revenge’, even while I sympathised with his words to Ashildr that he might find that difficult to keep to.

This episode goes in the top drawer.

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Well, in my re-watch I’m up to Face the Raven.   I’ve been putting it off for a couple of days, not because I dislike it, in fact it’s a great ep, but because I know it’s the (almost) end of Clara, who I like muchly.   Just watched Sleep no More, which does nothing for me – and why is it that Sleep No More gets a commentary track while none of the much better surrounding eps (the Zygons, Raven, Heaven Sent/Hell bent) do?   That’s just cruelty!

On the subject of companions, Osgood might have made a good one (and would have been a fan favourite) though she would have had to lose her fanworship of the Doctor.    But I think that became impossible when they ‘cloned’ her, since two Osgoods became necessary to keep the Osgood truce.   I guess one at a time could have taken time off for a trip with the Doctor but that could have been a very tricky dynamic for the writers to handle.   And two Osgoods would have been a nightmare for directors (like any double character) since every shot would have had to be repeated and the ‘blocking’ and cutting becomes so tricky.   Scifi loves to clone characters but the clones never last long for that reason.   Farscape cloned Crichton (and the end of that episode was a memorable vignette of the two Crichtons grimly playing Rock-Paper-Scissors and dead-heat-ing every time) but then they ended up on two different ships for the next half-dozen eps, at the end of which one died.   So it’s probably just as well for Osgoods’s health that they stayed on Earth out of the spotlight.

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Well this was another attention-grabbing, fun episode, a fine counterpart for The Magician’s Apprentice. And like that one, I feel impelled to burble about it so I’ll just give my impressions.

It starts with Clara looking at an upside-down world featuring an upside-down Missy (nobody really thought they were vapourised in the previous ep, did they?). But kudos to Missy who somehow managed to program Clara’s vortex manipulator to materialise her suspended on a rope from a convenient pinnacle. The repartee between Clara and Missy is always a delight. And I have to say, even though Clara is one of my favourite companions, I don’t in the least mind that she’s subordinate to Missy in this episode.

So the Doctor steals Davros’ mobile throne. The Dalek chant of ‘Seek, Locate, Destroy’ was the title of a Blakes 7 episode. Written by – surprise, surprise – Terry Nation, creator of the Daleks. I’m certain beyond reasonable doubt that the Moff put that in deliberately.
The sight of the Doctor cruising around impregnably in the middle of the Daleks was so enjoyable I was truly shocked when Colony Sarff erupted from beneath him.

As a Clara fan I should be outraged at her treatment at the hands of Missy – suspended on a rope, pushed down a hole to test the depth, tied up as a decoy goat, and finally – after Missy deflates the Dalek and the undead Dalek slime kills its inhabitant – don’t we just know who’s going to have to have to crawl inside it (and it ain’t Missy). But Missy does it all with such malevolent style I can’t hate her.

The Dalek translating everything into its narrow vocabulary. ‘I am Clara’ = ‘I am a Dalek’. ‘You are different’ = ‘Exterminate’. And I love the moment where ClaraDalek shoots uncontrollably while Missy dodges the ricochets. I’m told that new recruits given their first firing of a submachine gun have a similar problem letting go of the trigger. I do love the retcon that ‘Exterminate’ reloads, this is the perfect explanation for all the ‘Exterminate’-chanting Daleks over the years.

Davros almost made me feel sympathetic towards him in his conversation with the Doctor. Was he being entirely deceptive in his philosophical discussion with the Doctor? Was the Doctor being entirely deceptive in his compassion? Who knows?

And Missy saved the Doctor (with a Dalek gun). I liked that. Is that the exact same gun that the Doctor almost shot ClaraDalek with, and saved Young Davros with at the end of the episode? I wasn’t keeping track but it’s a Moffatt episode, I’ll bet it was.

Okay, that’s enough goodness, if I noted all the lovely little touches I’d be writing pages.

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Um.   Well, I’m not sure that made sense.   Yes I know that clue was in whose Point of View was could access.   And the reveal at the end was a good spooky shock.   But somehow it just wasn’t enough fun to make me want to re-watch to sort it out in my mind (unlike, say, Last Christmas or Listen), and it was too confused for easy following who was being chased/killed, not helped by the gloom.   And also, since I know we lose Clara (who is one of my favourite companions) next episode, I’m disappointed that there isn’t much for her to do in this ep (other than run around like everyone else).

I’ve just re-watched it and I was hoping to find it better than I rated it first time round (as sometimes happens) but it just failed to grab me.   On paper the concept is really ingenious and I should like this ep – I do like these monster-puzzle eps, like Flatline or Listen, and the bombshell ending should have been my cup of tea.   But the storyline felt too muddled for the ending to have much impact.

Ah well.

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Thanks Declan

Well those flame wars ranged anywhere from deadly serious (just as well the combatants were at the other end of a phone line – and 56k dialup took a little bit of the heat out) –  to kids just trying to outdo each other “I’ve got my big gun, ya pathetic wimp”  “I’ve got my anti-tank missile, dumbo!” “Well I’ve got my tactical nuclear weapon!”  sort of thing.   Occasionally a stranger would happen on such an exchange and be shocked and alarmed by the threatened violence, much to the amusement of the combatants.   I’m not sure it would even be possible these days, someone would take fright and call in the net nannies.

I suppose it was the text equivalent to modern shoot-em-up online games.   Maybe not really.

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Umm, I tried it, but I don’t think I helped much since I didn’t know almost all of the terms.   Partly at least because I haven’t been

‘in’ a fandom for yonks.  I did know ‘flaming’ though, I recall in bulletin board days (that was about 30 years ago!) we used to have the most spectacular flame wars.   😎

Oooh look, the website’s emoticon translator has given me the Sonic Shades   😎   😎   😎

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Hi Declan

There isn’t an episode that scared me so much I’d skip it. There are a few that were poor enough (in my opinion) that I’d skip them on re-watch unless I was faithfully doing the complete series.

However – scariest episodes or moments. The blanket monster in Listen. The Silents in the asylum, sorry orphanage, in Day of the Moon.   The knocking creature in Midnight. All of which fulfil the criteria that the scariest things (in fiction) are the ones you can’t see.
And in terms of ones you can see, the Weeping Angels in Blink.

All of those, of course, are far too good to ever skip. However, I might postpone those eps if I was watching late at night, alone in the house.   🙂

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Well now (he says, coming to this discussion five years late. But what’s 5 years when we have time travel?)

I’ve been told (by one person) that it’s perfectly okay to try to resuscitate a long-dormant discussion, and since nobody has told me otherwise, that must be a 100% majority in favour. We are a democracy (to quote Colony Sarff).

I just watched Magician’s Apprentice / Witch’s Familiar and wow. There was so much good stuff in it I want to celebrate it by babbling about it. I can see from a quick scan that every possible theory has already been canvassed so I think I’ll just touch a few things that struck me.

But first – the Prologue, set on Karn. I love the way Ohila calmly takes the Doctor’s every ‘No’ to be a ‘Yes’.
DOCTOR: Why do you always assume I’m lying?
OHILA: It saves time. The truth – will you go?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: When?
DOCTOR: Soon.
OHILA: Why? Did something happen?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: Was it recent?
DOCTOR: Yes.

To the episode:
Handmines. Ouch. Lasergun-equipped Tiger Moths and bows and arrows are kind of obvious for an anachronistic war, the sort of thing even I could have invented. But handmines? A truly deadly pun, but most people would think ‘nah, ridiculous, can’t ever work’ and dismiss them. But not Moffatt and the Who FX crew, they actually did them. Truly horrifying creepy.

Missy demanding eight snipers targeted on herself. The nerve of that woman. And carefully adjusting an airliner just for a sunshade. That’s Missy all over, an amazing combination of whimsy and overkill. Every scene with her in it is a joy to watch.

Missy: “[Look for] the slightest, tiniest anachronisms” – as the Doctor rides in on a tank wailing on a guitar. Way to make an entrance!
I loved Bors giving the ‘cut!’ signal to the Doctor’s dreadful fish-tank puns.   As another commenter here suggested, I now think Bors was transformed into a Dalek ‘skin job’ by Colony Sarff’s snake, rather than being a deep-cover mole.   That would chime with Colony Sarff having followed Missy and Clara to the scene.

The planet Skaro looks totally convincing and quite intriguing. Kudos to the Mill. It looks like it would be a fascinating place to visit if it wasn’t for random Daleks.

Davros – a truly shudder-inducing ancient wreck. I had not expected (in the next episode) to almost start to have some sympathy for him.

I wasn’t entirely surprised by Missy’s attempted defection to the Daleks, but then I certainly wasn’t expecting the Daleks to immediately exterminate her. Maybe they realise just how tricky Missy is.

So, Missy, Clara and the Tardis all just vaporised, that’s certainly starting the season off with a bang.

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