The Woman Who Fell To Earth

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    Darth Valaryn @troygorsline


    FYI – I am not afraid to express my opinion. I just posted how I don’t like a famous painting. The fact that I claimed I would never post about something I just posted about, was supposed to be quirky – hence the Ooops in parenthesis. I think others got the joke as they commented on it.

    I am getting the vibe that you are an outraged individual who just isn’t happy unless they are outraged. That’s fine. I live in America. That seems to be our jam these days.

    Sorry if this fan site offends you so much. Maybe we misunderstood, too? Maybe we didn’t get your sarcasm about the only reason a composer got the job was because of their race? I like the music in the episode. True. I didn’t really pay all that close attention to it. I thought the premier was solid and most fans (PhD or no) would agree that the music probably had a part to play in that.

    You disagree an that is way fine with me. I guess I don’t get into arguing that much either. Maybe I should turn in my USA card, we seem to be really good at arguing these days, too. I think it’s the fault of the media (JOKING ABOUT THAT TOO!!!! I am a big fan of sarcasm I guess. Maybe that is why I enjoy humor coming from the UK)

    swordwhale @swordwhale

    Too adult? If Who isn’t giving 7-year-olds nightmares, it isn’t doing its job.

    @pedant … bwaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! >D

    Perfectly describes that lovely balance of fascination and terror that makes the Whoniverse unique…



    Just to tidy up, I found a tweet from Tosin Cole conforming that the red thing was the bike light (very matter of fact – no archness).

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @msrbahar First of all, Cole isn’t of African-American ethnicity, as far as I know the actor has no links with the USA whatsoever. And Gill’s character we’d usually say of asian ethnicity if we felt the need.

    Secondly, thing is, those white doctors and companions, that people didn’t like, did people criticise their casting for being based on their ethnicity? White people are the majority in the UK. But we have a lot of people, we have a lot of people who are not white, many of them are actors. This means that it is possible to chose an ethnicity for a part, and still chose the actor on the basis of their acting skills. The fact that they deliberately cast people of a particular ethnicity seems to some people to translate as ‘they put out a standard casting call, and the first candidate of the ‘right’ ethnicity got the job’. Or, ‘they put out a casting call for a particular ethnicity, no one turned up who was any good, so this joker got the job’. No, not how it works.

    Anonymous @

    I meant African obviously… he is not American. Oh and excuse me “asian”.. Jesus! Talk about political correctness, really? I am not complaining about the ethnicity of the cast. I don’t know how it was cast but do you really think that had nothing to do with it. I even said I am fine with that as long as they are good actors.  I merely said if they were not good actors would you say something? You people obviously think the BBC can do no wrong. I do not think the music is good by any means.

    Anonymous @

    @troygorsline I am not outraged at all you are reading that into it. When did I say this site offended me? Yes that is our jam in the US, but I respect your opinion.

    swordwhale @swordwhale

    Still reading through all the great commentary…. whoo!

    He’s no big warrior leader; he has to cheat to even have a chance of passing his people’s test. He’s not even a great warrior who fights other warriors – more a serial killer of worried brothers, random drunks and kindly grandfathers. A murderous, cheating bully.

    @bluesqueakpip I feel like maybe this kind of villain reflects much of what’s going on in several parts of the word in real life… or some of our collective unconscious angst…. evil cheating bullies abound. Where…is…the…Doctor?

    janetteB @janetteb

    I talked to a four year old today who told me that the “girl doctor” is her favourite and the new assistants are great. Lovely to hear the opinion of the up and coming fan generation. She also told me that her dad covers her eyes through the scary bits. I have heard that Blink was her favourite episode prior to this series starting so she is not easily scared. I don’t think I was brave enough for Dr Who at that age.




    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @msrbahar did you read the second part of my comment? I’ll paste it here:

    White people are the majority in the UK. But we have a lot of people, we have a lot of people who are not white, many of them are actors. This means that it is possible to chose an ethnicity for a part, and still chose the actor on the basis of their acting skills. The fact that they deliberately cast people of a particular ethnicity seems to some people to translate as ‘they put out a standard casting call, and the first candidate of the ‘right’ ethnicity got the job’. Or, ‘they put out a casting call for a particular ethnicity, no one turned up who was any good, so this joker got the job’. No, not how it works.

    Does any of that suggest I think the ethnicity of the actors had ‘nothing to do with it’? I’m merely pointing out that they still ran auditions, they still required actors of sufficient skill for what they had in mind. When someone is in their 60’s is cast in a role, people don’t seem to assume they got the part simply because of their age.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    Welcome to the English language. English is a global language, and words from one area of the globe may have different meaning in other parts of the world.

    For example, ‘African-American’, to a British person, would mean ‘a black person from the United States of America’. ‘African’ would mean ‘born in, or a citizen of an African country’, and the British history of colonial involvement in Africa means that they might be white, black, or possibly ethnically Asian.

    Ryan’s from Sheffield. To date, it looks like his Dad is also from Sheffield and his Nan was from Sheffield. Unless it turns out that his Mum was from Guyana or somewhere, he’s not an African in the British sense. He’s English, or Black British if you need to specify ethnicity.

    ‘Indian’, to a British person, would mean ‘born in, or a citizen of India’. Yaz has specifically mentioned being called a rude word for people who have Pakistani ancestry – so she’s not ‘Indian’. I’m not even sure if she could claim Pakistani citizenship by now, as it looks like she’s about third-generation Sheffield.

    Brits use ‘Asian’ because we commonly distinguish between ‘Indian’, ‘Pakistani’ and ‘Bangladeshi’. So Yaz is English, or ‘British Asian’ if you need to specify ethnicity.

    I’m not sure why you think this is political correctness. If you described an actor as ‘American’ and someone replied ‘No, they’re Canadian, or I suppose you could say North American’, how is that politically correct?

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    Anyway, getting back to the music – @thane16 will probably know more about this than I do, but the hiring of musicians became much less ‘white male’ when many of the top symphony orchestras introduced auditions from behind a screen.

    That is, the panel couldn’t see who was playing – they could only hear how they were playing.

    syzygy @thane16


    And the great Zubin Mehta said, “I don’t think women should be in orchestras.”


    The Big 5 in the States hire carefully as you say.


    often political correctness is a term in the pejorative used to denigrate courtesy.


    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip Yes I already stated that I meant African ethnicity, obviously! Really… you had to go on with all that? @miapatrick  Good luck with Brexit we have Trump and you have that… the world is not so different these days.

    Yes it seems like there are many composers on the new DW… seeing three episodes… it’s more like someone said “we can’t let this be broadcast like this…. it is unacceptable”…. and brought in somebody else for the emotional scenes…  UPDATE saw the 4th episode and my opinion is even stronger… I could write better score with my crappy midi keyboard and Logic Pro…

    Here is a genius film composer at the top of his game… I am not going to say “in my opinion”… if you don’t realise that EVERY post is that person’s opinion then I give up.. @thane16  and I don’t care what Dr. PURO  has to say about it! You can coldly analize all you want just because you know more “facts” about music does not mean you have talent or taste…  you seem to be a good music “historian” but that’s all I see… thanks for you input… Even if Bernard Herrmann or Prokofiev disagreed with me why would that change my opinion… trust your own knowledge, instincts and taste… Here is Bernard Herrmann, The Ghost and Mrs. Muir: Andante Cantabile Fos is not allowing it so here is what they allow, not sure why fuck them do not rent or buy it download it:

    syzygy @thane16


    honestly, I don’t know what I did to upset you so virulently. I pointed out areas where I felt you had unfairly claimed Akinola had “no talent: and was “horrible!”

    He had not completed all the orchestration, himself -others had assisted. I also found comments regarding “Jodi’s lack of talent” to be a trifle unnecessary and was upsetting – but that’s also perfectly fine for you to write. As I said, this isn’t a place where everyone says “yes, sir, no ma’am” without critique.  To me, and on Forum you’ve stated “PhD, who gives a shit” which is also fine. I can cope! 🙂

    I never stated my qualifications as ‘showing off’  is unnecessary. I wanted to suggest  what instruments were used and who the orchestrator actually was during 3 episodes. I was never cold. I also never said I was “talented” or possessed “taste.” You’re claiming I’m “a good music ‘historian’ ” when I’ve never stated I am: though certainly, it’s a necessity in the work I’ve done with respect to orchestration and other related fields.

    If you believe the comments I have made point out that I’m merely a “good ‘historian’ ” (although you use qualifying apostrophes to imply I’m deficient in this area) then that is your prerogative. I just don’t understand what I’ve said to you that has caused you to be so angry at me? Because it looks like anger. I suggested your direct your fury at Alec Roberts; I also asked that you explain why you’re of the belief that those episodes are so poor. I explained the orchestration and the use of real-live instrumentation, rather than synths as well as mentioning some composers or scores that I found agreeable -including Spielberg’s work with Williams, which you yourself brought into the original conversation and so I was hoping to create a dialogue in that respect.

    And that didn’t happen.  But that’s OK, too 🙂


    Puro (Thane typing for Puro).

    ichabod @ichabod

    @thane16  (Puro)  often political correctness is a term in the pejorative used to denigrate courtesy.

    Yes, the evil Right has captured that phrase it and turned it into a pejorative, with great success.  Someone once asked author Ursula LeGuin, in an aggressive tone, whether she would describe herself as “politically correct”.  She answered, with considerable steel (she was a formidable person), that yes, she would, since she was against slavery, misogyny, racism, exploitation, etc., and would never apologize for being so.  The idiot who had asked for this had enough sense, at least, to shut his mouth.

    The phrase has (at least) two meanings now: it either refers to common decency and humanity as per LeGuiin’s reply, or the insistence by some on, for instance, referring to manhole covers as “person-hole covers”, and to someone crippled by arthritis as “differently-abled” (and where that line is drawn tends to vary quite a bit, according to all kinds of factors including who else is in the conversation).


    syzygy @thane16


    And, as for “who gives a shit”? I do

    Indeed. Whether a degree, undergraduate or post-graduate, post-doc, doctorate or PhD these are all necessary to expertise. Also, just for what I call “knowledge for knowledge sake.”

    That leads to great dialogue, conversation, inspiring thought processes and personal goals



    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    I can’t wait until you hit the episode about Partition…

    Seriously, are you the sort of person who, when told that someone is from Texas, insists that you already said they were from Louisiana?

    geoffers @geoffers

    troll-eo, troll-eo, wherefore art thou, troll-eo?


    apparently. msrbahar has gone off to “write [a] better score with [their] crappy midi keyboard and Logic Pro.” can’t wait to hear it…

    thanks to everyone who tackled that incursion, i was mustering my strength to try to talk them back from the edge, but i fear i wouldn’t have done nearly as well. :/

    winston @winston

    I like her, she is “The Doctor”.  In fact for me she became the Doctor almost as fast as Matt Smith did. Her clothes are quirky and her boots are cool and she made her own sonic spoon. I felt the 10th and 11th Doctors in there as well as the 5th. The first episode is over and I am very happy with the new Doctor.Can’t wait to see what happens next.


    Mirime @mirime

    I’m late to the party and haven’t read the whole thread, but I liked it, like her. Still not sure on Chibnall…

    On Grace, there seemed to be a bit of a warning there – I’ve not seen anyone else saying this, but she was enjoying it too much, bit like Clara perhaps? Just caught up with her a bit quicker.

    CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis

    I have been DVRing the new episodes and have not watched them yet. With the holidays coming up and regular TV goes to reruns and Christmas shows that aren’t very Christmassy, I hope to get caught up. 1st, glad the Doctor has a sonic screwdriver again. 2nd I still liked the old TARDIS better, the new TARDIS looks to much like a carousel  at the fair. i liked the baling wire theme the old TARDIS had. BTW, I have never watched the old Doctor programs, the old black and whites, hopefully BBC America will run them sometime in the future. I’m wondering, whatever happened to the Doctor’s granddaughter, where did she go? Or the Doctor’s daughter cloned from David Tennant’s Doctor? Why can’t the Doctor go back in time and visit Amy and Rory? Clara Oswald was the “Impossible Girl” who supposedly couldn’t die and then did????? Donna, Martha, they aren’t dead, are they? Why can’t the Doctor ever see them? So many great characters to miss. Loved Sarah Jane Smith, what few shows I saw of hers, and her limited series. Any answers, comments, shut ups, (LOL) would be appreciated.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    I have been reflecting who a while on this before posting. On the one hand, I think JW does a great Doctor on her first appearance. On the other, it seems (as a script) to draw more attention to how to assemble the Tardis Team than how to overwhelm the viewer with the wonder of an alien on earth.

    And strangely, for a first episode, there is no reference at all that this alien can travel through time.

    Finally, as a character, I really think I would loved Grace to have been an ongoing member of the Tardis Team.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @winston Interesting that you mention 5th Doctor. it had not occurred to me at first but I am beginning to see a bit of 5th Doctor in Whitdoc.

    @cedarbranchtardis you do ask a lot of question. I think the simple answer is too hard to bring back the actors. RL determines story telling unfortunately. I also want to know what became of Susan. One day one day….

    @blenkinsopthebrave There was lots of love for Grace here too and much dissapointment that she did not become part of Team Tardis. she would have been a great companion





    Why can’t the Doctor go back in time and visit Amy and Rory?

    Short answer: cast availability (Lis Sladen is dead, Karen Gillan and Jenna Coleman fantastically in-demand and busy).

    Slightly longer answer: the show needs to keep moving and looking forward. Once it gets bogged down in its past, it is dead. Moffat trod a very fine line, with an aim to resolve many of the cruft-laden inconsistencies that a 55-year-old show has accrued. But now there is almost no historic plot-hole that can’t be resolved by saying “That was a Claricle fixing thing”. Which is good, even (especially) if it enrages the Angry Virgins.

    If there is a really good story-telling idea (or a gratuitous excuse like an anniversary) I see no problem with bringing past people back, if they are game. But in storytelling terms it is not helpful for a show that is at least half about the unknown future.


    There is much love for Grace, and I think that is why her loss was such a powerful storytelling device.

    CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis

    I realize that many of the past stars of The Doctor would have a difficult time coming back full time, and I don’t think I would want that. I was wondering about a “special guest appearance”, or a special show. I do not want to see it get bogged down, either. I’ve watched other shows in the past and I finally got burned out on them after so many years.


    Anonymous @

    I have now watched most of the Doctor Who series from Season 1 (recently aired in the US through season 12) through to Season 12.  I think I have seen 99% of the old episodes and 100 % of the new show. What was nice about the previous seasons is that they maintained characters from one doctor to another. The continuity was great and you looked forward to seeing those familiar characters.  In the new season the only old character is the Tardis and she isn’t talking!

    They are going to have to up their game to be a winner with this new crew. The show is okay but let’s face it it’s not as good as it was and I miss that and want that excitement back. I just read the article that Jodie is going to leave the show is 2019. I think we need better story lines and more dynamic supporting characters for this new Doctor to be successful.

    I’m debating ordering the dvds for the previous seasons so I can watch the series I have come to love and hope to catch episodes I may have missed. I can only save so many episodes on my cable DVR and I miss the old characters. If anyone has ordered the entire series from seasons 1-12 on EBay from China please let me know if the quality is OK. Thanks.

    RED HEART @davis

    The show is awesome and I love it too much. My wife also loves the show and bought a thirteenth doctor who coat. She didn’t find any screwdriver. We are hoping for the next action of this series.

    Robsie @robsiehallert

    This was a wonderful season starter and introduction to the new Doctor.
    I could not have asked for better!
    And I love the new “fam.”

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Well, just watched it for the first time.     Ummmmmm.    Definitely liked Yaz.  Ryan and Graham were okay, didn’t annoy me.   Jodie Whittaker, I just can’t get enthusiastic about.   Too bland.   She just doesn’t have the impact a Doctor should.   Not helped by the fact that many of her lines were – uninspired.   They didn’t have the sparkle of a Moffat dialogue.   She did a lot of explaining stuff we all know already.   And she really should avoid the goldfish look and keep her mouth shut.   Maybe she’ll grow on me, Matt Smith did.

    Grace, now, I really liked.   And she was courageous and adventurous.   AND THEN THEY KILLED HER!  Wtf???   (Actually, I would have loved to see her – the actor that is – as The Doctor.   Now wouldn’t that have triggered a few people.)

    The ensemble companions aren’t really my thing – scenes where each one takes it in turn to ‘contribute’ something useful just set off my ‘contrived’ detectors like almost nothing else.

    The plot was generally okay.   The writing did actually make me feel sympathetic to some of the red-shirt minor cast – the security guard for example.    But it all felt a bit – routine.

    The villain was kinda hokey.   Creepy, but a bit Ice Warrior, and the info-dump he did explaining his entire setup in one go was very obvious (“*INFO-DUMP*” jumped into my brain as soon as he started).   The Moff would have broken it up with (funny/sarcastic) interjections from the Doctor or companions.    The information-gathering ball of snakes was a far more scary ‘monster’.

    Not that it matters, but the ‘coming soon’ bit on the end credits was weird, all those people-I’ve-never-heard-of due to appear in future eps does nothing for me, why should I care?   I just hope their bit parts are well written.

    As I said, ummmmm.   Hope the next eps improve.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Just re-watched with the commentary track (J Whittaker and the director) on.   Her Yorkshire (?) accent was much stronger on the commentary track, I found it a bit distracting for a Doctor  (which is odd, since I didn’t find Eccleston’s accent weird, nor Tennant or Capaldi’s Scottish ones).    But I’m starting to get used to it.   Not sure if I could say the episode improved with second watching, since I had the commentary track to distract me.   Maybe I’m ready to move on to the next ep.    If the Doctor acquires a bit more gravitas and the dialogue peps up a bit, I’ll accept it, if not I’ll (mentally) draw a line under the end of Moffat/Capaldi’s Doctor and regard season 11 like a spinoff.

    (P.S.  Before someone shoots me, I put the ‘(?)’ after ‘Yorkshire’ because I’m no expert on accents, I’m sure somebody will correct me on that).

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