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@wolfweed– Thank you! I can’t believe I only just twigged-

I can’t help thinking at least that Moffat has read the book, and it is an influence- maybe one of the reasons I’ve taken to 11 so much is because Moffat’s Who was reminding me of this. Names, memories, stories…

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OK, was just browsing through the DM thread, and some people talking about all the aliens in 11’s first series fleeing the silence, and whether ‘the silence’ always meant the alien Silence, or something else, and I realised what that series had reminded me off, that I couldn’t put my finger on. Something that involved breaking the forth wall (in a way), memories, stories and names.

The Nothing in The Neverending Story, probably my favourite book when I was a child. The first film wasn’t bad, but no one ever captured the second part of the story, I think.

So in The Neverending Story, all the creatures of this world are fleeing the Nothing, which is spreading patches of, well, nothing. The reason for this is because the Child-Like Empress is dying, and the reason she is dying is because someone from a different world/universe/our universe had to give her a new name. Eventually a young boy from our world who is reading this in a book names her and crosses over, which is where the interesting (I think) part starts. He remakes the world with stories, some from his memories of what he read, some with his own ideas. But what he doesn’t know at first is that every time he makes up a new story, he loses a memory.

It turns out that eventually- because this has happened many times before- he’ll tell his last story and forget his own name, and having no more memories, be consigned to a kind of purgatory. But while he’s losing more and more memories, he becomes more and more dangerous and stubborn. Eventually he does run out of memories, I think, but manages to find a memory of his father in a kind of mine (honestly, it makes sense in the book) and is saved.

And isn’t Doctor Who, in a way, we hope at least- a never-ending story?

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@phaseshift, @jimthefish re: Truculent Alexander. I’ll admit I did wonder for a while, when TS posted a few really quite reasonable comments about the foolishness of calling for the cancelling of DW by people just because they don’t like a couple of episodes-

Until he launched into his insistence that the big friendly button is a DEM- but a DEM cunningly disguised by being foreshadowed. Um- yup. That’s our Alex…

(good work on that thread, but probably futile…

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@haveyoufedthefish– I can really imagine the conversation.

It does highlight the differences between the Clara’s- Victorian Clara would look for his name, she did insist on following him- she was a much more conventional kind of companion. Interesting…

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@scaryb– mine too! I know the cloth thing is a bit tenuous, but pieces of cloth did seem to get a lot of screen time, considering there was a swimming pool and a library and all kinds of exciting things to show us.

and it does at least offer an explanation for the changed photograph.

Plus he liked Tricky, I can see him making sure the truth comes out.

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Just re-watched- a couple of thoughts. It was a cloth at the end (I thought it was paper the first time too), but it looked a lot like the cloth at the beginning of the episode, that the youngest brother was using to clean something.
Given the weirdness of the changes on the salvaging vessel at the end- the photograph of the brothers and their father- could it be a hint that he did in fact go to the other ship and change things, rather than the changes being a rather inexplicable result of the re-set? He could have done that when Clara was showering/swimming.

Secondly, I agree that there was something sinister in the way he said to Clara ‘you won’t go looking for my name’, but it also reminded me of when he was trying to help Amy remember Rory when he was erased from time- as though he was imprinting a suggestion. Though that might not work on this Clara, since she has a habit of taking him at his word- not following him, keeping the door shut when he said to.

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@juniperfish– yes, I thought that from the start of the episode. (Though in Red Dwarf they would have played the whole ‘we told you you were an android cos we were bored’ more for laughs, I think, whereas here it was basically a guilty panicked lie to cover up the truth.)

@galactus– interesting that she was exhausted. Reminded me of TBOSJ, when she asked him why they had gone to tomorrow and he said it was because ‘they’ had spent the whole night looking for them, and are you tried? and she said yes. Probably not significant.

You’re right that the memory stuff probably is. There has been a lot about memory so far, not just in this series, but generally under the Moff.  The concept of The Silence, Amy remembering Rory, memories-stories-soul, the Doctor constantly saying something along the lines of ‘this is new’ in the first half of this series, the second half’s focus on ‘remember’.

I keep thinking of the human memory as being like a computer. If you erase something, even if you remove it from the recycle bin it can be recovered.

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loved that.

‘Never follow a mad man onto a spaceship’ (or something like that). He really should get that tattooed on his forehead.

@htpbdet, agree, both Clara and the Doctor were brilliantly played in this episode.

I loved the ‘attic’ like room, incidentally filled with things that would work as currency at the market in TROA. Nice to know he’s a bit of a hoarder. And I loved the library. I want that library. Interesting that ‘The History of the Time War’ was written and printed in a book, but the ‘encyclopaedia Galifray’ (I think it was) was recorded in jars… does that mean the ‘history’ has a human origin?

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@IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan- thank you for that link. How brilliant is that announcement? ‘Do me the honour of becoming my widow’. I have a personal love for ‘ghoulish humour’. It really does work. And a good reference to the NHS, which at the moment might do some actual good.

Ian Banks is one of my favourite authors. Ian M Banks I have always intended to try out- my mother, who reads a lot of sci-fi highly rates him, but hadn’t tried any of the ‘literary’ fiction until I gave her ‘The Bridge’. ‘The Bridge’ is, I think, my favourite of his books, and one of my favourite books, and now, association of ideas, I really wish we could have had an Ian Banks written episode of DW.

I was just coming to terms with Terry Pratchett   having Alzheimer’s when I found this out. He also manages to talk about his condition with dignity, grace and humour. From personal experience I know how hard it is for someone, when they’re very ill, to put on a public face and manage other people’s reactions. Sometimes it brings out the best in them. I think humour is a wonderful gift, and the one thing that saves us, sometimes, from complete despair.

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Hi everyone- and welcome to all the new members, it’s lovely to see this forum take off like this.

Been trying not to spend too much time here and on the thread because I have an exam this afternoon. (Shame one of the topics isn’t DW…) But I have been dipping in on, ahem, ‘breaks’.

(Wish I had a time machine right know, though it would be what my father used to call a horrendous abuse of technology.)

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Minimal snarking on the other site so far… the night is still young I suppose.

Interesting about the Tardis translation field still working. And I loved the chained up parallel between Dalek Clara and the Ice Warrior.

Don’t think there were any ’27”s in this episode, alas.

Found the Doctor imploring the Ice Warrior to teach humans compassion a bit jarring. Could have seen Clara bringing up the fact that he hesitated when she begged him not to kill the professor, the Doctor being very disconcerted when it seemed to work, then telling the Ice Warror all his people were gone too. Assuming 11 can do that without also mentioning that it’s down to him, so basically run…

thinking about it, though, the Doctor resorting to compassion, denying soldier-like status (which the captain clearly smelt on him) and trying to completely avoid any semblance of aggression could a: be a sign of just how impressive/scary the Ice Warrior was,  b: a hint towards the doppelganger theories, or c: a hint towards something changed in him since he confronted ‘grandfather’ in the last episode. I mean the Doctor does favour compassion over aggression, of course he does. But he has shown a marked tendency to use his reputation as a weapon, and he didn’t here.

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Re: sonic screwdriver- I can’t remember which episode it was, but wasn’t there one when Amy had hold of it, and Rory asked what she was going to do with it, and she said ‘point and think’, and lo and behold, it did what she wanted it too. Almost as though Moffit was making fun of the concept. And I remember the River episode, where she’s shooting at the Silence, I think, and he’s there by her side waving his screwdriver around, and she’s not impressed.

So I wonder if the Doctor briefly considering then deciding not to hand it over is in fact a hint. Is he becoming too dependent on it? But then again, knowing that the sonic is the only reason River didn’t die utterly (though I myself have trouble thinking she’s enormously happy looking after virtual kids in a massive computer program for eternity) would he voluntarily give it up?

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@thedoctordude, yes, it’s interesting the reference to her mother. I’m tempted, after this last episode to think that the Clara of The Bells of St John is the original- she takes the name Oswin, comes up with ‘Run You Clever Boy And Remember’ to remember the wireless password, and gets uploaded with crazy hacking skills. The fact she knows Daleks when she sees them might just be that people in Earths future are once again familiar with them, but again, it might be a residual memory of her previous existence. But the mother dying does seem significant. In Asylum, she think’s she is literally nailing planks of wood to her door to keep them out, but really it’s a psychological process to keep them out of her head, and she does this in part by baking soufflés, and leaving chatty messages to her mother, as though in some ways it’s her bond with her mother that is keeping her ‘human’. So even though Darlek Clara knows her mother can’t literally come and find her, she is still protecting her, keeping her from being lost.

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@bobbingbird – right there. That’s why I love this site. Collective theorising is so much more fun, especially when you get the benefit of other peoples admirable knowledge of Doctor Who history. 😉

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Really happy to see the new posters over here. I used to really enjoy going to the DM blog in the morning and reading through new comments, but the nesting and the quality of the negative comments are close to ruining it. Yes, there always was some negativity, but I agree with @jimthefish, there’s a particular atmosphere now.

27. Yesterday I watched both of the new episodes and I noticed that in both, when the Doctor seems to be pulling out a random number to make a somewhat frivolous point he choses 27. 27 brains. Great scones in the lake district in 1927. I tend to feel that with Moffit, there are no coincidences but a lot of red herrings. But if he says 27 again next week I’m going with it.

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@jimthefish– god, that’s a good point, maybe he did lose some memories. Maybe not 11 memories, but previous doctors.

Which could lead into the 50th anniversary… and he would be less likely to be aware of it.

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OK, I didn’t mention it last time because it seemed so tenuous- but the Doctor’s tooth marks? Two times last episode we saw him biting into something then putting it down/passing it to someone, and here he did it again, with the weird blue fruit.

Nah, it’s still tenuous. But still a bit careless for someone with precious and dangerous DND.

Other than that- really thought for a moment the doctor was going to lose his memory. So then he’s loose on the Tardis, with an inexperienced, though ‘brilliant’ companion.  He stops trying to work out who she is, because he’s failed to ‘remember’.

Memories and Mothers seem to be important this time. No flickering lights that I can recall, though a sun went out…

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@janetteb, I agree about Clara, there is a lot pointing to it, among other things the differences between her reactions to the Tardis in the Christmas Special and this episode. Here she is pretty shocked and inarticulate, the doctor fast-walking her through it. The smaller on the outside comment sounds more like what you would like your reaction to be, if you ever got a second chance.

Her advice to the father in the Christmas special also sounded quite experienced. And this episode does partly explain how come, screaming genius or no, she could hack the daleks.

(I’m very impressed with the actress so far as well. She’d had to play three variations on the same character, from different era’s and regional accents. She’s had to ‘meet the doctor for the first time’ three times, she’s done this pretty well I think and all she gets is a pile of comments like ‘the totty’s up to scratch’ or ‘Doctor Who is sexist for using a young, pretty companion.’)

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@juniperfish– I loved the dancing. I’m not as a rule over-fond of physical comedy, but Matt Smith always plays it just right, with enough self consciousness to make it seem creditable.

Having sobered up and watched again on iplayer, I’ve been thinking about the things I liked in this episode. I liked the reappearance of the Great Intelligence, Oswin turning out to be an internet identity, the reappearance of UNIT, the Wi-Fi code rycbar, the little mystery with the ages recorded in the book- @bluesqueakpip, that was some top draw, epic geekiness with the numbers, loved it. I like the thing with the scarf (which I didn’t notice first time) and chapter 11.

I’m tempted to say that the best things about this episode are all the hints, tributes, suggestions and red-herrings, rather than the story itself. Which suits me find but I can see how people could feel underwhelmed or alienated.

That said there were some great lines. ‘Why do you keep pointing at that blue box when you say ‘mobile phone’?’ ‘Because it’s a surprisingly accurate description.’ And the doctor busking for breakfast money.

As for the main plot- does this mean the GI was partly responsible for the internet age? Or was it just taking advantage of human nature, like the exterminators in the power of three? And what would the GI have thought of the black boxes and possible extinction of its food source? And if the GI was basically eating their minds, why was it necessary that the minds have computer skills?

Regarding Clara’s accept. I think it’s probably deliberate. 11 pointed out how odd it was that Amy could grow up in Leadworth yet retain her Scottish accent. As a rule accents do change a little over the years.

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Re: eggs. Of course no eggs now it’s Easter.  wanted to get my boyfriend one today. No eggs left. amazing how relevant who is.

Although, a theoretical egg is there, given that with River Moffit seems to be on the chicken side of the which came first question: River was there before Melody was even an embryo, and in this episode, the doctor mentioned the name ‘Oswin’ to Clara before she created the online identity using that name.

We do have one important piece of information now. Clara is ‘brilliant’, but her ability to hack into things the doctor can’t, as mentioned in AOTD is explained. Her ability to withstand dalekisation is also explained. The password: rycmar- what were the numbers? isn’t an explanation but a hint.

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@scaryb I’m not sure now, but I remember noticing flickering lights, and thinking of possible significance.

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OK, bonkers theory: Earth was a computer but the files became corrupted (six times nine indeed…) so in TBB (or TWORS, which would fit in with the whole ‘new’ thing) it was dismantled and the components used to build an even bigger computer, a universe not just a planet. Oswin is in fact a program within this computer, essential to calculate the real question which, when answered, will in fact destroy the universe, because the question and the answer can not exist at the same time. (Alright, it wouldn’t fit with ‘Doctor Who’, but that’s assuming that that is the question, and so far it’s been presented as everyone’s best guess.)

(Wouldn’t you love to see Moffitts take on the Restaurant at the end of the Universe?)

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@jimthefish: giving a little irony to all those ‘this is new’s…

I’m torn between your theory, and ‘our’ doctor being the big bad. Mind you, RTD had two Doctors, one rather more dangerous than the other.

Most of Moffitt’s Who has revolved around how dangerous the doctor is, and I would love for the whole Doctor=warrior/Predator v Doctor=Caretaker/babysitter/cleaner contrast to come to something.

If you are right, would that mean elements of the doctor in the GI? In which case, not Eleven’s personality, but Eleven would have the memories to know its weakness, but it wouldn’t be mutual.

(Though Eleven’s weaknesses are obvious. He is kind, arrogant and feckless.)

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@Whisit there is a lovely Peter Pan element to the I am Spartacus idea.

Two things I keep coming back to. The fact that the Doctor said ‘this is new’ or ‘it’s new’ in every episode of the first half of the season, even when it felt quite shoehorned in.

And the fact that so far there have been two very unlikely alliances against the doctor as the big bad. It’s been going on since eleven started with ‘basically: run.’ Whether this tells us more about eleven or Moffitt I don’t know. I do think that when he decided to subvert the fixed point in time by faking his death he knew it was a risk. (Though if he hadn’t, River would have ended the universe. I’ve said this before, but: takes after her father.)

 

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@jimthefish Mind you, the Fall of the Eleventh could mean nothing more than he trips up and gets back up again perfectly unharmed. I wouldn’t put it past Moffatt.

Nor would I…

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@jimthefish– the stormageddin stuff was brillent. Kind of makes me wish Moffit would remake ‘Look who’s talking’…

Agree the Cybermen part were terrible, like @janetteb says,  the ending fell off badly. Even the script was making retching noises. Still, interesting that the only way in this episode in which the Doctor saved the day- was by tidying up. (And then before very long he’s introducing himself as the caretaker and acting like a deranged Mary Poppins…

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For all the flaws to this episode- I like the Craig episodes, mostly I think because he’s almost an anti-companion. Craig was the one who didn’t want to go anywhere, who chose instead what the Doctor calls the even bigger adventure (or something like that) when he drops Amy and Rory off in a new house. Craig’s laid back attitude ‘you can’t help who your mates are’  is an interesting contrast to Rory’s occasional (and perfectly justified) ire. Doctor Who is about adventure. But not everyone is naturally adventurous, and I get the feeling that it was his interaction with Craig here that provided some of the push in TWORS, at first to at least find out why he was supposed to die, and then to go against it. The Amy’s and the Rory’s are exceptional. Craig, who saves the day first by not wanting to move away from his home, and secondly by loving his baby son, is the best of the ordinary. The doctor has a clear penchant for human beings, that ought to include the ordinary ones.

I also thought there was a bit of a dig at RTD- we saw 10’s farewell tour in excruciating detail, lots of standing with a sad face and shouting to himself, and if I’m honest, it did a lot to soften the blow. Not a fan of protracted farewells. Here we see a portion of what 11 considered to be his farewell tour, which apparently consisted of turning up at peoples doors and chatting for a few moments, which is the essence of why I like 11 so much more than 10.

And as for James Corden- I don’t know. I like him here and in TL, I liked him in the History Boys, wasn’t keen on Gavin and Stacey, he’s apologised for The Lesbian Vampire Killers and as for his panel show, it seams reasonable to make ones buckets of money out of something like that and then for acting going back to (the relatively ill paying) theatre. I think he’s good in DW, that’s the main thing. In the Nineties who would have thought Sheridan Smith would have ended up with the career she has now?

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@whisht– agree about the new actors- but more because of the characterisation of the new cast.

The original was essentially a recovering drug  addict, an agoraphobic and a bi-polar personality disorder sufferer, with supernatural causes,sharing a house, which on paper ought to be more interesting than an obsessive compulsive, champion sulker and a re-homed stray (with supernatural causes) sharing a house. But for some reason the current set up  really works for me. (Incidentally, i rescue dogs, so i can say that if ‘re-homed stray’ is really what they are aiming for with Tom, they have it bang  on. He’s very sweet and loving, but you daren’t leave him to his own devices for too long.)

It doesn’t feel as though this was  intended as the last series. The last one would have worked fine for that. As is it I’m not sure how baby eve has bought about the end of the vampires. Stopped them taking over at that point, yes. Left Tom and Hal alive and human-like, maybe.  And they seem to have bought the devil into it, which feels a bit like a game ender, but for the most part it feels like a re-boot.

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Hya, thank you to everyone for your congratulations- would have replied earlier but last weekend was my friends birthday eve, birthday. and birthboxing day (/ happy 95% to me) celebrations, and on Monday I got an unexpected (and surprisingly crippling) thumb piercing from my Portuguese pedenco dog. This turns out to be a really nice place to go and brag about things like OU results and have people understand what you’re talking about, which is great. (my boyfriend was very happy for me, but would be more impressed if i could understand the internal combustion engine in more detail than: ‘Things go bang, make car move.’ (Which, I still maintain, is right, as far as it goes.))

Re: nesting system on the Guardian site. I also hate them. Mostly for the reason mentioned above that it makes it impractical to go back to the blog and read through the new posts. (The OU has a system which compresses older posts and expands new ones, which, if not ideal, is better). I keep saying that at least the Guardian has kept their content available for free online, but it’s starting to feel less free. Firstly all the moving advertisements, which constantly crash my laptop if I stay on there for more than 10 minutes. (That’s partly my fault as well, though.) And secondly the nesting system.

I always loved (poor thing that i am) when DW started again, looking forward to watching the episode, going on the blog, reading and refreshing the comments all evening, and going back to it every day for that week, seeing the newer comments. By the last couple of days, of course, I think most of the comments came from members of this community. But other than that this is now a little spoilt for me, as others have said here, it’s too good for trolling, trolls don’t need encouragement. In fact, maybe it’s too easy for trolls. Maybe it will spoil their fun… and plus I don’t take kindly to change. I throw a strop every time yahoo changes the look of their homepage and mail.

I have the impression that the Guardian is broke, and basically independent for the same reason- not owned by a millionaire/evil conglomerate, is that right?

(ow, my thumb!)

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Hi everyone… sorry for the smugness but have to put it somewhere- the OU assignment I mentioned elsewhere- I got 95%! And given that it involved creative writing, which I intend to pursue with the OU, I am so very happy!

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Just realised there is an edit function on posts! @craig, I love you!

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@phaseshift– that is so interesting, that coldness and cynicism can be reassuring, but it really was. Then again, isn’t it (especially according to Rory) the Doctors bursts of enthusiasm and lack of calculation that make him dangerous? (I don’t think Steel would have lost Amy the way he did in TGWW. Mind you, he wouldn’t have had her on the Tardis in the first place.)

Re: OU, fortunately I am a: on the old fee structure (fees just quadrupled) and because our income is next to nothing, i qualify for financial support. Basically, if you’re poor, it’s free…

@bluesqueakpip– not right now, but I am planning it for next year (or late this year). How did you guess? (looking nervously around the house)

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I really love this episode. As i might have mentioned, i love Moffitwho in general, but this episode almost stands out to me the way Moffit episodes stood out in RTDwho.

One thing that struck me, re-watching it, is how so much of the design of this episode resembles an elaborate stage set.

Also, when House is messing with Amy’s head, showing her an old Rory saying how they come every night and hurt me made me think of TATM. I’m not saying all that was planned at the time, but it does form part of a recurring theme of Amy and Rory parted, to one no time has passed, to the other, years. Auton-Rory didn’t age, but he does still have two thousand years of memories tucked into his head (I love that in a way he is older then eleven), in TGWW, it happened to Amy, here and in TATM it’s Rory.

We also have ‘basically: run’ with another hint of the dangerous nature of the Doctor. And the moment when he realises that everything will be alright, because the body holding the Tardis is dying, and he uses delaying tactics until she does so. Which is, as River might say, cold, but unavoidable. (Leaving Rory to stay beside the dying body, best person for the job.) It’s also interesting the way he moves between being desperiately happy at the idea of there being another time lord, to disturbed but hopeful at the idea of there being many time lords left, to greif and anger when he discovers what happened, all the way to using the fact that he ‘killed them all’ to try and intimidate House. (strictly speaking an exaggeration?)

I love the idea that it was, in fact, the Tardis that wanted to see the universe, so she stole a timelord and ran away with him. And Amy asking ‘did you wish really, really hard?’. And Matt Smith constantly switching between an ancient, battle scared being and a barely pubescent boy (embarrassment, and ‘bunk-bed’s are cool’).

Question for the Knowledgeable ones: Would it not have been possible for House to be the GI and escape into the world at the end of this episode? Did Gaiman make the change because he insisted on the Tardis destroying House at the end, or is, as @phaseshift suggests, Moffit playing a very long game re:GI that would be inconsistent with this episode?

p.s. also loved the Tardis’ comments about the Doctor picking up strays, and considering Rory to be the pretty one.

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@janetteb, I love Johnathan Strange… I love 18-early 19th century novels, and that is a wonderful example of an historical/fantasy novel that fits well in the time period.  And Handmaids tale is in my top three dystopian novels.

@jimthefish: love Patrick Hamilton, not read that one yet. Re: Brett Easton Ellis- which of his have you read? I loved Lunar Park, then found Imperial Bedrooms oddly reductive- like Glamourama coming after American Psycho. I don’t know anyone else who likes him, though.

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and, HaveYouFedTheFish: I did wonder about the photographs in the children’s home in TDOTM was it? Didn’t strike me as shots taken at Devils run.  River was, undoubtedly, alone, scared and a child in America at a certain point. I do want there to be more, and more about the Gamma forest. It seemed to mean more than just a way to tell him ‘Doctor means warrior to some, you’re getting scary.’ Why would River Song use the Gamma forest version of her name rather than the given version of Melody Pond? Who was the solider who died fighting with them? At the time I assumed the doctor left at the end to go find her there, and that was when he met the solider.

(But then again, I also thought that Rory was actually the good man River kills, because he went all Anakin-Skywalker to Darth Vader about what happened to his wife and child and she had to kill him before he put on an astronaut costume (for no good reason, but made a change from Roman) and killed the Doctor. In retrospect, a tad maybe too dark for DW, and I love Rory, so thankfully I was wrong.)

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@haveyoufedthefish: re: fall of the eleventh- fall from grace-  I think that’s credible, given the whole ‘risen-fallen’ aspect of AGMGTW. That meaning has been established.

I seem to remember (ignoramus that I am)around the time 9  ended people saying it was unfortunate after one series because there is a limited number of regenerations. Is that the case? If so, how many were there?

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@phaseshift:

In fact she had a video boxed set in the 90’s. (I still find it weird to think that’s quite a while ago now.) So I was quite excited yet nervous to watch it again- was it actually any good? Have I been spoiled by modern production values? So I borrowed the first disk from the set- having forgotten how many episodes went on each story. I have now watched, I think, all but the last episode of the first story. I’m reassured by my frustration- it was really good, and I, apparently, am not irredeemably spoiled.

So thoughts so far- yes, definitely to the play like feel. I like the way they left so many spaces, let the story unfold slowly. In a way it was probably great preparation for MoffitWho, however stylistically different they might be. From what I remember and what I have re watched so far, it isn’t very much about logic, or about science. It’s about the interaction of characters and atmosphere. especially the atmosphere. And taking a really creepy idea and running with it. The many clocks in the house stop and your parents disappear. Things like clocks, nursery rhymes and photographs being dangerous. Maybe that’s why I like Moffit making Statues, moving your glance and snowmen scary.

One thing that struck me in the first story is how awful it is from the boys point of view. His parents vanish, two strange adults turn up, say they are there to help, make something really horrible happen, then prevent you from getting help from the police. (Hi, we’re a fire. We need to see your frying pan…) One of them constantly barks at you, the other one looks and sounds like Johanna Lumley. Poor kid…

I think maybe the absolute lack of budget might have become a strong point. (like the Sally Sparrow episode?). When you’re not trying to construct spaceships and alien planets, but instead are using stuff found all over the standard props department, you don’t get the wobbely cardboard feel. And from what i remember and have re-watched, other then the introduction (SAPPHIRE AND STEEL HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED!) it’s really more supernatural then sci-fi. I think the basic stories would have worked without the sci-fi context.

Steel was chilling. But I always liked him. Oddly, i misremembered this exchange: Boy: ‘Don’t you know your history?’ Steel: ‘I know my history.’ (no excuse for ignorance about the industrial revolution, then, had it come up.) as being between nine and Rose in DW.

Have more thoughts but don’t want to do long long post and beer going down nicely, and (string of Firefly style Chinese swearwords) reflective commentry for OU to write…

 

 

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My mother got the Sapphire and Steel DVD boxed set for Christmass… anyone else here who used to watch it?

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@Phasehift- I haven’t seen the new Being Human episode yet, will do on iplayer today. I did notice  that under the tv review for it today someone was asking if there would be a series blog, and it didn’t look like there would be-  could be a good time to do a bit of fishing…

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@blenkinsopthebrave thank you. Interestingly, from TEH, I felt that 11 was such an old doctor. It made sense of River (either saying or implying) that ‘her’ doctor was older then 10. He really is. But then, Matt Smith has such a wonderfully versatile face!

@juniperfish <waves back> been lurking all year/month, this community is a godsend. I try to remember that I was concerned by the fact that RTD and DT were leaving, hoping it would still be good, just in case the next changeover is coming up. But I really do think, as it is now, there is a classic quality to Who. I suppose I have more to lose this time, because this is the incarnation I’ve really latched onto. But yes, to continue that point- had I not liked 11, I might have given it all up. Moffits audacity has, I think, stabilised the franchise to an extent. Maybe I’ll love 21 this much…

(regarding merchendise- i bought my boyfriend a Hornby Train-set for his 40th last year, so someone bought him a Hornby blue police telephone box to go with it. But when is a blue police telephone box ever not a Tardis?)

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This is a little embarrassing, really, but I’d have to say that in a way Eleven is my doctor.

We watched it in my house when I was younger, but I can only find annoyingly vague memories of various scenes. I know I liked it at the time, but not to the extent of, it seems, everyone else here. (in my defence, I’ve actually blanked out quite a lot of my childhood (never so terrifying phrase as: your school days are the happiest days of your life) and I was born in 79 so I only really had 80’s doctor who to get into.)

I liked RTD. I liked RTD a lot more before Moffit took over. I liked Donna. As for David Tennant- sometimes I read a book, and the writer is very good, and very clever, and I keep thinking while iI read it how good the writer is, how clever. But it’s distracting, because I’m thinking that rather than being absorbed into the reading of the book. DT always had me noticing his acting. He was a very good Doctor Who. I thought that every timeIi saw him. With Matt Smith I just think ‘the doctor’. Old eyes etc.

I like the Moffit puzzles. I like the way he writes himself into a corner, then bursts his way out of it with brilliant special effects, gorgeous scenes and heart breaking characterisation, but without over dependence on logic. People criticise him for putting style over substance. I think in fact he puts both style and substance over practicalities. I’ve read, on the Guardian thread, what are objectively much more satisfying endings to the ones that he produces. But I never feel disappointed when I watch the real ending. Someone on the DM blog accused him of ‘writing checks his arse can’t cash’. But no one else out there (apart from maybe Joss Whedon) can even write checks like that.

But the great thing is, because he has produced a doctor who does in so many ways look back to previous regenerations, because he does, on occasion, return to doctor who’s past (Homo reptilian, the GI etc) I’m now more interested then I ever was to explore the canon of Doctor who. Like someone said, very new, but very old. Nine and Ten, i think, belonged very much to RTD. Eleven belongs to the whole historical franchise.

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@phaseshift– me too. Ihave to admit I haven’t seen much of the Older Who, and this does remind me more of HG Wells than it does of recent Who. Very chatty Darleks. I’m finding it a little confusing, but i do need to look more at the other incarnations of the Doctor. (For example, i did’nt know anything about the significance of the’Great Intelligence’ until people on the DM blog started talking about it.)

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@phaseshift– re: eleventh hour- i do like that, though i can see that line coming simply through Moffit having the doctor do the thing with the pages, and then the analogy was too much fun to resist.

There are other repetitions, which might or might not be deliberate. For example, (for a really bonkers one) Clara says ‘eyes front soldier’ as a reason why the Doctor should climb the ladder first- though given the length of her skirts, not really an issue. The other person in Who to say ‘eyes front soldier’ is Amy… Older Amy to be specific. The other Who character to be really good at hacking into networks. Oswin’s abilities honestly did remind me of Older Amy in AOTD, which is probably why the repeated phrase here struck me so.

(Though I know older Amy dies, and I don’t think she’ll come back. I think phrases like this are like echoes, reminders of past episodes, maybe just a little fun for the fans…)

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Does anyone else find the lines: ‘the pond is yours. What is growing inside it, when it is ready, is ours’ incredibly creepy when you think back to demons run etc? And then shortly after, Madame Vastra commenting about the snow that remembers ‘I hope it’s listening to the right people. it could be a terrible weapon in the wrong hands’. I think it’s probably just an echo of the past- or maybe a deliberate reminder of River? Though I’m afraid i think if she does come into it again, it will be because she’s died/been saved (uploaded)/the doctor has given her the sonic screwdriver.

 

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Hya just one thought. I noticed in the first part of the season the doctor said ‘It’s new’ or ‘this is new’ in every episode. (I think.) And two times in this episode the doctor and his friend referred to the memory snow as being ‘new.’ However, i have learned from you lot on the other blog that the Great Intelligence itself is most certainly not ‘new’- or shouldn’t be, to the doctor. And the other repeated phrase from the first half was to do with remembering. I can imagine with the anniversary Moffit will want to mix in a lot of new and old. The current Who universe has crashed, been reset, rebooted and restored as often as my computer hard drive (which is a lot). Is it really the same universe as that of his predecessors, in any sense other than if you change the handle of a broom, and then the brush, its the same broom?

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This is great. Thanks Craig. Now I can antisocially obsess over Doctor Who all the time…

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