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16 October 2013 at 09:49 #18575
I eventually caught up with watching this episode last night (recorded from Watch channel).
I didn’t notice the graininess after the shot of a model Tardis in a heap of sand, and a lot of the graininess would have been hidden by the poor resolution of the 405 line TV sets of the time.
A major theme of this episode seems to be the act of pushing buttons and pulling levers without knowing what action they performed, and was established in the early Tardis interior scenes. (2 killed so far).
NOTE: A rewatch of the ending this morning confirmed my initial thoughts that it wasn’t the Cyberman that killed the archaeologist but a weapon that appeared out of a wall. I am not even sure that this Cyberman was a functioning unit, but I should find out in the following episodes.
Re: Jamie’s era.
A quick bit of research found that he was picked up after the Battle of Culloden in 1746.
BTW I wonder if the designers of computer mice were influenced by the (what we now know are called, although not named at this point) Cybermats.
9 October 2013 at 09:40 #18040Re: The Master
But right from the off he’s not really been thinking things through which leads me to think that the Doc’s description of him as an ‘incompetent bungler’ in episode one is actually quite accurate, rather than just simple jealousy
The Master definitely has a higher opinion of himself than his capabilities seem to justify.
Mind you, at times this seems to apply to the Doctor as well.
6 October 2013 at 15:10 #17926As I have Watch Channel and can record it on TiVo (which I will have to do as I will be out walking on that day), I would like to go for “The Tomb of the Cybermen.
It is to be shown in a 2 hr block (at 14.30 on Sunday, 13th of October), but, I assume, that there will be breaks between the episode for the ads.
Should we watch it one episode at a time?
5 October 2013 at 20:09 #17895Lovely twist on the “escape from the cliff-hanger” by the simple action of “calling for help”!
Jo showed that she is not a helpless bimbo. It is a long time since I watched the Jon Pertwee episodes, so I hope that the script writers didn’t turn her into a numpty.
At least The Master wasn’t completely too wrapped up in himself his own plans, and could take an action that was in the common interest.
I found it interesting that the Doctor called Mike Yates by his rank and surname, and Jo called him by his first name. Is this an indication of a developing relationship?
I also found the Doctor’s final comments, where he was relishing further meetings with the Master a bit sinister, as though he was turning to the Dark Side. (Oops, wrong programme!)
28 September 2013 at 20:05 #17649Nicely paced with the comic relief stirred in with the cliff-hangers.
I don’t understand why the master had to supply a new telephone cable when I thought that all plastic-covered cables had a life of their own.
🙂
BTW Although it may be frowned on now, making hot drinks with lab equipment happened in the 1980s.
14 September 2013 at 20:23 #17295About a week before I watched this episode, I watched “Spearhead From Space”, the first of the Jon Pertwee episodes and the debut of the Autons. Unfortunately, the picture quality of this DVD is not as good as SFS.
The humour of the series is still going strong and I can see that there are good bits to come, although I thought that the acting seemed a bit stilted and rushed compared to SFS. The squid (or is it it octopus) reference is probably lost on people who didn’t see SFS. (I am not sure if it is O or S, my memory problems + a bottle of wine!)
I thought that the bomb “cliff-hanger” was a bit contrived and that the episode was a bit rushed, and that the fairground sequence seemed too contrived. I hope that I am proved wrong and that we return to the circus.
I also thought that the effects of the turning radio-telescopes wasn’t very realistic and the black outlines around actors’ faces was off-putting when compared with, not just current effects, but what was done on SPS.
A friend of mine thought that “The Happiness Patrol” (Which, unfashionably, I like) looked cheap and tawdry, and I was thinking the same about this.
However…………. (three more episodes) THE STORY RULES!!
BTW I have never been a big fan of the Master, and what happened to the glowing eyes?
3 September 2013 at 17:29 #16934We have our own Dalek (otherwise known as Bridgewater Place) in Leeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgewater_Place
It was built with an aerofoil shape in one of the windiest parts of Leeds and it accelerates the winds around it.
It blew tiles off the roof of the neighbouring Grove Inn, which I found shut for that reason when I once went to celebrate my birthday there.
There are times when I have nearly been blown off my feet when walking near it.
On a more serious note, it once killed someone when it blew over a lorry on top of a passing pedestrian, and they often close off the roads near it when there is a high wind.
31 August 2013 at 20:51 #16859BTW
Sorry for the duplication in the first paragraph in my last post.
and
“monster” should be “magma monster”
31 August 2013 at 20:26 #16857The black, satyrical humour is more to the fore in this episode, with its pantomimic villains and monster, is more to the fore in this episode and, no doubt, the little kiddies will really enjoy the President falling to his death down the lift shaft.
Glorious overacting is in abundance in this episode, and I find that it is reminiscent of mumming plays. This may be where the design of the monster comes from (as in Snap The Dragon). This programme was written at a time when the interest in British traditional customs was strong.
At this point of the plot, the stage design has become more stylised and, personally, I think that Doctor Who often works better when it is like this, not trying to be realistic, and with a Pythonesque/Douglas Adams sense of humour. I reckon that this and the story, “The Happiness Patrol” (with the Kandiman) are excellent examples of this kind of story.
The complicated interconnectedness between the protagonists and the antagonists are becoming apparent, and there may be more to come in the final episode, as the wheels of the mill keep on grinding and mixing the story strands even more intimately, and I am anticipating more delights in the final episode (unless they were forced to make too many edits!).
BTW I have only recently realised that “Spectrox” is based on “spice” from Frank Herbert’s “Dune”. I have to admit that I have not read the novel, but I think that I may have seen the film on the telly a long time ago. (I had to check on Wiki.)
My Final Questions:
Will Spectrox prevent the President from meeting his death at the bottom of the lift shaft?
Has Perry been cured of Spectrox Toxemia.
Are there any other disguised androids around? (Morgus’s secretary seems a good candidate.)
Anyway, all the best,
Steve The Whistle
30 August 2013 at 18:54 #16802Here is the correct spelling and definition from the New SOED that I have stored on my computer.
synchrotron
n.M20. [f. SYNCHRO- + -TRON.]
Physics.
An accelerator in which electrons or protons gain energy from an alternating electric field as they travel round a closed orbit in a magnetic field, the strength or frequency of the field being increased to keep the radius of the path constant as the particles gain mass relativistically.
Comb.: synchrotron radiation polarized radiation emitted by a charged particle as it spirals at high speed in a magnetic field.
17 August 2013 at 20:42 #16330I enjoyed watching a slower-paced story after Ghostlight, which I found easier to follow on a second viewing with commentary text switched on.
I agree with most of the things that @phaseshift has to say, and it is also worth noting that the Miners’ Strike was in full flow when this episode was broadcast, though, of course, the economics and politics are still valid now. At this time, there was some dodgy use of the police, and the rumour was that some of the “police” on the picket lines were members of the armed forces. I wonder if further episodes will mention The Enemy Within”.
Anyone used to more sophisticated stage scenery and props of recent years may find that the painted backgrounds and other props look slightly ropey, although someone with a combined TV/DVD would not be surprised to find that the remote control can also be used to open sliding doors. Of course, if there is a strong story with plenty of page-turners (not sure of the equivalent TV phrase), this can be forgiven.
I am looking forward to discovering how the various story strands come together on the other three episodes. (Honest, I won’t cheat!)
BTW
If the Doctor wears a stick of celery on his lapel as a gas detector, why does the Prince of Wales sometimes wear a spring onion on his?
🙂
16 August 2013 at 21:18 #16291You have reminded me of a person who recently wrote a letter to the Dalesman Magazine saying that his/her descendants had worked in the Swaledale lead mines in the 19th century.
14 August 2013 at 13:35 #16084I have heard that the tennis score “love” (= zero) derives from the French “l’oeuf” (= egg).
Have we collected enough yet to make an omelette?
🙂
13 August 2013 at 21:39 #16058Dear Doctor
I have just spent over an hour of my life looking at the interior of a “hi-tech” police telephone box on Earl’s Court Road.
Do I need psychiatric help?
stevethewhistle
13 August 2013 at 08:30 #16007Re: Ducks
I’d just like to point out, for the benefit of readers who aren’t into cricket, cryptic crosswords or bad puns, that:
duck = zero.
(ducks quickly before a virtual cricket ball comes through the computer screen) 🙂
9 August 2013 at 22:59 #15826Welcome back @Shazzbot
I just want to point out that the Doctor’s theory of when Amy was abducted and replaced with the ganger wasn’ t necessarily correct. He does make mistakes.
9 August 2013 at 22:26 #15822WATCH IT FIRST
WATCH IT FIRST
WATCH IT FIRST
WATCH IT FIRST
WATCH IT FIRST
WATCH IT FIRST
WATCH IT FIRST
Another densely-packed episode. There is certainly no padding of the storyline.
I reckon that there are too many ideas competing for space without enough room to explore any of them properly. Your thoughts do not have any time to come up for air and breathe!
Some of the plot lines (eg hunting Queen Victoria) are suddenly introduced, seemingly out of nowhere, and the “cuckoo” reference to Gwendoline doesn’t seem to be properly explained (unless I missed something).
Some nice touches of humour that seem to characterise what I have seen of McCoy’s tenure as doctor. I like the references to Shaw’s “Pygmalion” and “Don’t touch the soup”. The impossibility of trying to use a static model to catalogue a dynamic situation was also nicely brought out. I also liked the way that Ace mentored Control and made her fit for taking over the expedition.
There were some annoying bits. I don’t like the idea of having evolution (or should it be devolution in this case) work on terrestrial individuals, although I could accept it on alien individuals, and I haven’t worked out what all the night staff were and where they disappeared to at the end. And what are the full implications of the euphonism “Sending (someone) to Java”? I am assuming that it is a reference to Java Man.
At least I seem to have been right in my assumption that the basement was a Tardis-like vessel.
I haven’t yet watched the story with the text comments switched on, so, for all I know, it may have originally been intended to be longer and then edited drastically.
However, I enjoyed the quiet, gently-humorous (if explosions can be gentle) ending between The Doctor and Ace.
BTW I get the feeling that aspects of this tale have influenced a lot of AG stories. Anyone fancy spotting them???
Don’t touch the soup!
3 August 2013 at 21:07 #15009I reckon that I will have to watch this and the previous episode with the subtitles turned on. I know that my hearing is not so good these days, but I AM watching with the sound routed through a Hi-Fi.
Everything seems over-rushed, and I wonder if they have tried to squeeze three or four episodes’ worth of material into two.
At this point in the series, there is wide scope for BonkersTheories but, hopefully, all will be revealed in the final episode.
Does the reference “gone to Java” mean that they have devolved to Java Man?
I thought that one of the husks was a Silurian, but how can lizards evolve into mammals?
Is the evolution of Josiah (who, I assume, is named after the relative of Charles Darwin, Josiah Wedgwood) fuelled by the devolution of the others?
The cellar does have the feel of another time machine, I feel, so, is the bright light related to time travel?
BTW
I recently watched the DVD of The Happiness Patrol, which, so far, I prefer to Ghost Light, although my opinion may change after watching the final episode.
2 August 2013 at 12:37 #14829I checked the Virgin TV scheduled of BBC1 at 19:00 on Sunday, 4th August, and the programme scheduled for that time was Celebrity Mastermind.
Surely this means that the new Doctor is John Humphrys.
🙂
25 July 2013 at 00:30 #14363At this rate of buying DVDs, I will soon have more than Sally Sparrow!
🙂20 July 2013 at 21:31 #14219I expected Leela to have been more proficient at killing Greel, but maybe the armour was knife-proof, and, if she had succeeded, it would have been a very short episode.
I am not sure where the parody of “The Green Eye of the Little Yellow God” is from, but Wikipedia doesn’t think that it is from Harry Champion.
I reckon that the comic relief was kept up nicely to the end.
BTW
Did Scotland Yard really supply the TARDIS?14 July 2013 at 20:40 #13881At least we know that Weng-Chiang isn’t Weng-Chiang (unless he was named after a Chinese god).
13 July 2013 at 21:23 #13799I finally got to watch this after a walk in the hot sun in the Yorkshire Dales National Park (in Cumbria) and missing the thunderstorms. A bottle of wine was also consumed tonight.
Weng-Chiang’s incoherent OTT screaming left me puzzled as to what had been left behind, and I had to turn the subtitles on. Not all the dialogue was included in the subtitles.
The scene of Weng-Chiang’s den is still unknown (surely the B is not Buckingham Palace), but we are building up for the final battle. I hope that Leela has not been too affected by the chloroform.
9 July 2013 at 09:27 #13411The film poster has reminded me of the old proverb:
Time flies.
You cannot.
They fly too fast.🙂
7 July 2013 at 22:28 #13321@chickenelly and others.
As I have bought Revisitations 1, I would be interested in a joint rewatch of “The Caves Of Androzani” (which I don’t think that I have watched) and “The Movie”, which I switched off at the time because I thought that it didn’t seem like Doctor Who (not British enough).
My views may have changed having seen the AG style, and I am not afraid to admit that I can be wrong.
6 July 2013 at 19:48 #13271Sorry for a second post so soon, but I have just realised that the ending is about the only part of the episode where the possibility of someone’s immanent death doesn’t occur.
6 July 2013 at 19:38 #13270At last, a need for the giant rat! (let’s hope that that is the end of it)
I was wondering whose dead body would appear in the knife cabinet (and when).
The revolver and card trick provided entertaining misdirections from the main plot.
Interesting to see how Chang has changed from being the main hated baddie to a pitiable, badly-treated victim in four episodes.
The big question, whose answers are slowly being revealed is “Who and what are Mr Sin and the so-called Weng-Chiang”.
You don’t see many cliff-hangers where no-one is about to be killed (although it is not certain if the professor is dead or alive) and it is difficult to work out what will happen next, and where and when it will happen.
Any bonkers theories out there?
29 June 2013 at 18:58 #12999Not a lot happening in this episode, but the plot is thickening slowly. However, it seemed to get to the cliffhanger very fast. (I must be used to 45 min episodes now!)
The potential goryness of this episode is, thankfully, buffered by the comic relief.
Leela gets a chance to use her brains a bit this week. I didn’t spot the switch in the dressing room coming.
I am assuming that the “Chinese Cabinet” is not in the laundry basket as there doesn’t seem to be enough room for it, but what will happen when the Doctor’s map on the tablecloth is discovered?
Will the Doctor fire the gun with Leela in the way, and if he does, will it explode?
Has Leela still got a knife on her and can she overcome the giant “rat”? She should have the ability to do it, and it would be of benefit to the story if it were finally to be disposed of.
Will we eventually see behind the leather mask of Weng-Chiang (bearing in mind that it was screened on a Saturday tea time)? Maybe his head will just be a skull.
Will there be a clip of George Formby singing “Limehouse Laundry Blues”?
22 June 2013 at 19:15 #12777I liked the line that the “Blue Guards” would only call the “Sanit(ar)y Inspector”.
Also that the professor’s housekeeper was called Mrs Hudson; and the giant money spider, which I think worked better and more subtle than the giant rat.Other things that I particularly liked have already been mentioned.
I thought that the shining eyes was a bit too much of a cliche for that time, and that the scene would have worked better without it. Of course, it could have been meant as a joke.
In keeping with the spirit of this forum, I have only watched it once, so there are probably things that haven’t lodged in my memory or that I haven’t noticed.
I reckon that it was quite dense but nicely paced, and that the slowish pursuit scenes lead nicely into the finale.
PS Does anyone think that there was a love interest developing between Leela and the professor?
It may be worth mentioning that lasers only started to come to the fore in the early ’70s
and holograms were a relatively new concept when the programme was made.
21 June 2013 at 21:13 #12725As @miapatrick mentioned Border Morris on the “Talons of Weng-Chiang” thread, here is a link to a video of the Shropshire Bedlams (English-Welsh) Border Morris side.
(Please can somebody remove the first posting with the error in the link to Mia…..)
20 June 2013 at 21:20 #12682Hello All
I have finally received the boxed set from BBC Shop that contains “The Talons of Weng-Chiang”. It also includes “The Caves Of Androzani” and “The Movie”, as well as various extras. The BBC Shop emailed me on Monday that they had dispatched it, but the post didn’t deliver it until today (Thursday) and I stayed in for 2 days of sunny weather when I could have been out walking. (grrrrrr!!!!)
Anyway!
I never saw the original screening as I didn’t have a telly (not even B&W) in 1977 and, although I have seen quite a few BG episodes when they were broadcast at the time, and on UK Gold, I have not seen this before. I have been a Good Boy and only watched episode one tonight.As I was born in 1954, I would like to state the context for this story (with some links to Wikipedia etc.).
As has already been said, the show is parodying various tropes of 19th and 20th century culture, This meshes well with other programmes at the time. It was made shortly after “Monty Python”, and it was broadcast only the year before “The Hitchhikers’ Guide To The Galaxy” hit our ears.
The Music Hall scenes were a pastiche of “The Good Old Days”, a BBC recreation of music hall nights, which was staged at Leeds City Varieties.
Leela’s and The Doctor’s (I will have to re-view to find out the name that he used in the Police station) clothing, I think, was designed to be “outlandish”, although @curvedspace this link to Victorian clothing reform may be informative.
The magician’s character is an obvious parody of Fu Manchu although, the stories featuring that character were based in the early 20th century.
Although I was watching on a digitally remastered copy, I wouldn’t have known that the giant rat was a giant rat if it hadn’t been signalled beforehand.
BTW @
@miapatrick Sorry to have to correct you (as I am quite capable of making typos myself) but it should be Border Morris.18 May 2013 at 21:47 #9635Or can meta-history be unwritten?
18 May 2013 at 21:45 #9634Is The Doctor now established as the most time-travelled being in the Universe?
18 May 2013 at 21:26 #9623BTW
Clara could still be the daughter of The Doctor and River.BTW
Note that the Scottish dialect pronunciation of “daughter” is “doctor”. 🙂18 May 2013 at 21:17 #9617I do like the idea that the birth name of The Doctor is irrelevant. The meaningful name is the one that he gave himself, with all the promises and responsibility that goes with it. I think that this fits in well with series 5 to 7. This would also, I think, apply to The Master.
However, I like the idea (posted on the Grauniad) that the name his mother called him was *Sweetie”. After all, it’s the name that his wife calls him.
11 May 2013 at 20:56 #8584The cybermites remind me of this picture by M Escher.
9 April 2013 at 12:11 #4801Re: The Tardis Lock-out
The Tardis might have locked the doors to keep out The Queen Of Ages so that she couldn’t avoid singing her song.
11 January 2013 at 23:01 #1257POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILERS
Here is the current list of the programmes that BBC Radio4Extra are broadcasting.
Series 4
1
Death in Blackpool
MON 07/01
2
Situation VacantTUES 08/01
WED 09/01
THUR 10/01
5
Deimos Part 1FRI 11/01
6
The Resurrection of Mars Part 2MON 14/01
TUES 15/01
WED 18/01
9
Lucie Miller Part 1THUR 17/01
10
To the Death Part 2FRI 18/01
11 January 2013 at 22:15 #1255Radio4Extra are currently broadcasting series 4, which was released from Dec 2009 to Mar 2011.
BTW, On the Wiki article, there are some MINOR SPOILERS regarding featured characters.
8 January 2013 at 22:09 #8874 January 2013 at 14:48 #337Hello All
I’m in at last.
Thanks Craig
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