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oh bugger. Just caught up with the news.

will try and think of something more insightful, but maybe Moff’s not lying about not having cast yet, if the regen in the xmas special is right at the end.
They wouldn’t need to write anything in particular for the new actor, just “… and new face is revealed. [end credits]”

btw did they have to release the news now, as they were casting and Smith accepting other work??

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So – a bit late(!) for Saturday night, but…

Heres’ a track I surprised myself by liking when I heard it a few months ago, but had a chuckle at hearing the lyrics in a different light!

“We are the people who’s come here to play
I don’t like it easy
I don’t like the straight way
We’re in the middle of something
We’re here to stay
And we raise our heads for the colour red”

kind’ve a theme song for (some of) us?

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btw found a great Saturday night track I’ll post tomorrow.

it may even be a theme song….. though maybe that’s a stretch – but it made me laugh at the time!

;¬)

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ah @craig – thanks for Free Falling.
Kinda reminded me that there was always something restrained about the production of music at that time. I can imagine he ripped it live, but the production dampens it all down. However the hook and songwriting is still great.

and @scaryb – The Byrds as a reply.

Well, its a definite echo (see what I did there? Clara? echo? oh…. oh well…..) of Dylan – his writing and sound in both tracks.

So, how best to respond to both? Well…

it could’ve been Tangled up in Blue…. or Isis… but “falling” and Clara made me think of Listen the Snow is Falling

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Brilliant!

Welcome @brynwe – and thanks @mtgradwell for a completely factual and informed welcome to Brynwe – but only in Dr Who could something that factual could be quite that confusing!

;¬)

Not that I have a better answer (MTGradwell is as ever right).

Brynwe – I don’t know where to watch it (I mean, i wouldn’t be so gauche as to suggest googling “silence in the library watch online” or anything) but its worth watching.

oh, and feel free to theorise wildly about what may happen – as you’ll see where you first posted I was completely wrong, but had fun doing it!

;¬)

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blimey @curvedspace – hope she’s fine (and not uploaded anywhere).

she wasn’t holding a leaf was she…?

:¬ 0

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blimey! @Shazzbot has just turned all Sopranos!

“Hey, Donnie – yu don’ wonna get unlucky bro’.
Y’know, my boyzs can get awful over-protecdive – and dat ain’t nice.

y’know whad I mean?”

Shazzbot, from now on, whatever bonkerserizing you’re saying, is alright by me

:¬ –

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Hi @theseniletardis – I liked Clara too.

I like the fact she’s smart and the actress playing her is capable of portraying that (probably because she is smart herself). Her smartness means she’ll do the unexpected (ie actually doing what the person who’s been through this before counsels her to do, such as “stay here”).

What did you like about her?

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Hi @theseniletardis – welcome!

best get stuck in. We’re friendly. Any spoilers on the spoilers thread. theories on the 50th thread.
Memories of past Drs on the past Drs thread….. Music on the erm…

hmm….. I’m not good with words and fear I’ve done the here’s-how-to-suck-eggs thing so I’ll shut up!

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts wherever you post them!!

;¬)

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ah, thanks @craig for the update on @htpbdet

Jeezus, that means that he won’t have read any of the comments on the thread for TNotD (and probably elsewhere), so when his health does allow him back, can we treat him as a slightly-time-travelling companion?

He’ll have missed loads of conversations and thoughts, so lets bring him up to speed gently, as he brings us up to speed on the context, thoughtfully.

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Hi and welcome @peargrins (nice avatar!)

ooh theorise away on the ol’ leaf thing… there’s meat on the.. erm… branch..(?) for that…

[hm, mixed metaphor again, apologies, no good with words]

;¬)

and @satsumajoe – oh I am SO waiting for Aria to be mentioned (and yes “Love is a rebellious bird”).

But anagrams come first (for the writer to get to the words/name we go backwards from), so it seems a tad unlikely…..

But if Moffat says

“ohh yes, I was sitting down and thought what can that chracter be called? Well it was for the 50th so I went all Latin and thought opera would be a good idea, so then wrote a weird awkward phrase”

then I’ll buy everyone a drink

;¬)

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Hi @coldsnow – phew! Just to let you know, I don’t think your “spoiler” is really a spoiler.
It sounds much more like a bonkers theory! And that’s a good thing!

Spoilers (on this forum at least) are ‘facts’ outside of the episode, that relate to a future episode (eg Hurt being in the 50th, photos of a specific alien on set, a mate-of-a-mate who was chatting to a runner and found a photo proving that Obama will be the next Doctor etc etc).
Your thoughts sound more like what most of us get up to here – thinking about the episode, watching closely, wondering and then positing a theory (albeit bonkers!).

I’ll admit I didn’t see Clara transforming/looking like Rose, but agree there’s been Wolf mentions (see the Cold War thread and elsewhere here!). And the dates aligning – I’ll cede to your knowledge and others here who’ve been all over the numbers! There may be something in all that!

Btw – if you do have anything like I’ve described as a “spoiler” there’s a specific thread for them, so post as many of those things as you want over there. However, you sound like you’re theorising so you’re welcome on every other thread!

;¬)

In terms of anagrams – what makes you think I like anagrams??

;¬)

You can also get “sonar calls a widow” as well as many other (unlikely) anagrams!

My favourite was “DW now L; CALs OS Aria” (still waiting for mentions of Aria!!)
or
“DW saw CIA so ran lol”

or the @scaryb / @bluesqueakpip -ping
“DW is also Clara now”

;¬)

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@scaryb – I’m with you in that JLC could play the Doctor; I just think that they can’t do it now, as it’d be terribly hard to shake the “promoted companion” tag.
But she’s got the ability, no doubt. As an actress, she comes across as smart (and she probably is in life).

oh, btw @jimthefish – Julia Davis was me (and I’ll leave that hanging there for everyone who hasn’t a clue what that means!)
;¬)

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ah @jamesunderscore – I bow to your superior argument!

No one, no matter how megalomaniacal, would possess Eric Roberts!

back to drawing board (knew it couldn’t be that easy really!)

;¬)

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Hi @denvaldron
Just in case you missed it, some Cushing love on the Guardian (because of the DVD and Blue Ray reissues of the films)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2013/may/28/doctor-who-1960s-video

Just ignore the commenters!

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@bluesqueakpip, @Shazzbot (and probably loads of other people!!)
In terms of regenerations and a limit… I’m obviously going to ignore the possibility it was a throwaway line/ inconsistencies in the scripts, years apart.
(as if! and we’ve no truck with that kinda nonsense here!!).

I wonder if it could be this simple (did I really just type that..?):

Could it be that the Timelords have a self-imposed 12 regeneration limit. There are no physical limits, but 12 is a way to ensure Rassilon/Omega megalomania-madness doesn’t ensue (as well as not stultifying the Gallifreyan aristocracy even more than they are).

The Master has to ‘ask’ for more regens and the TLs allow him to continue (he doesn’t need to ‘do’ anything, its just that their big-book-of-reckoning notes he has a dozen more regens).

So, the Doctor could go beyond 12 without doing anything if the TLs are still locked.
And if they’re unlocked, he could still go beyond 12 with or without their agreement (though if he went against them then he’d be running for another reason!).

And he’d still be worried about the possible ensuing madness that could creep in (as well as not wanting to go/ fear of Valeyard etc if that is providing any dramatic tension).

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@scaryb? or was it @osakahatter (who had some beauties upstream) or @bluesqueakpip..? have trawled back but can’t find the posting I’m trying to reply to, but….

The idea that at the end of the 50th, Trenzalore is ‘undone’ ie it is no longer the death place of the Doctor – completely agree!
imo this is essential, otherwise Moffat’s left another plotline towering over all of the next series (ie “the Doctor can’t die at the hands of this alien – he dies at Trenzalore” – so no tension).
It would also mean having to have that broken Tardis window through the whole of the future of the show (as the tomb-Tardis has this broken window).

So – end of 50th is not ‘just’ HurtDr rehabilitated, but Trenzalore undone.

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@pennyintheair – love your leaf-theorising! Will try and wrap my head around it, but I do think you’re right, in that there are elements of the last series that i still think will be resolved.

I hadn’t thought the 50th would be an appropriate point to tie them up, but if they were visited as ‘illustrative’ as to how travelling in the timeline helps the Doctor, then perhaps no problem!

eg Clara and Rose (re)visiting previous adventures (eg tBoSJ) to ensure Clara gets to the Doctor (ie Rose is the “woman in the shop”; 10 causing the screeching tyres we hear while they’re in the cafe, unless its one helluva Chekhov’s Duck!).

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Ok, I won’t flog the dead horse (hm, another bar… “The Dead Horse”..) anyway, I realise that I can’t even cast my own bad jokes!

Frasier – The Master
Lilith – The Rani

How did I miss that?? Of course we’ll need to find room for Vastra as Rebecca(?) or as a patron who’s going out with the girl in the kitchen (and the only person who doesn’t realise is Woody/Strax).

Now, will put this to bed, as I had an “Alan Moore moment” when I realised that the US would cast Russell Brand as The Landlord.

{shudders}

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Hi @craig – looks like 20 pages of comments could be the ‘max’ that the system allows for returning to the page you were on, or linking to the latest link (the word “indexing” springs to mind, but I really have no odea what I’m talking about!).

When I just posted on the 21 page tNotD, I ‘returned’ to the first page (ie not seeing my post).

probably the right time to close tNotD thread then!

;¬)

and run a book as to how long the 50th thread will last until its 20th page!

At least it doesn’t break though – ie we’re not losing posts (at least I don’t think we are) so it is a robust system – thank you!

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Hi @mispawsintime – I think I know what you’re getting at.

At the end, Smith says:

“The name, my real name, that is not the point.
The name I chose, is ‘The Doctor’.
The name you choose, its like, its like a promise you make.

He’s the one who broke the promise.”

Clara then faints, just as HurtDr begins to turn around.

It is a slightly strange stress on the word “you” (as in “you choose”) as if Clara has yet to choose a name, and when she does, it will be like a promise you make.

Of course, he may ‘just’ have put stress on the word for no real reason, but…. we don’t take mistakes/no real reason around here!

;¬)

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Hi @fishcombobulated – I love the name!

btw (and this is me being very very very thick)

just why are there so many fishes here? A few birds yes, but so many fishes in the (sea of) threads…..

I really should know I s’pose….

;¬)

I think your first impression was probably correct – not sure how, if HurtDr is in 11’s past, the Pat Gang can have helped HurtDr as they seem to be of 11’s period, but I’ll go along with ya if theres’ a chance (I can imagine a scene with them afterward if that makes sense a bit like who’s on first

eg
“who’s that?
Yes.
What, Doctor?
Yes, but no, not really the Doctor.
huh? Who?
Yes
What??? Doctor??!?
No, Who.
What?????????

[ad nauseum]

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@denvaldron – well, I’ve mentioned Horror Express a couple of times (I’d wager Mr Gatiss has a copy at home!!) so thanks for mentioning it up-thread.

If its Peter Cushing’s birthday, then I have a slightly awkward link to post.

I have a strong memory of this, as when I watched it as a kid, I thought it was an incredibly tender love that he had for his wife – a love so tender that he wanted to create a rose to be named after her (as she had passed away by then).

Its only problematic for its recent context, but let’s focus on Cushing and learning a bit about cross breeding roses!

(and yes, Roses….)

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to be honest @craig – you say “learning” but the Spoilers thread was a stroke of genius.

Spoilers are the antithesis of speculation and can’t co-exist in a single thread (a “fact” kills speculation cold dead).

But spoilers are fan-nip and are gonna be around any fan-site, so setting up a quarantine zone for this hazardous material was brilliant.

(and don’t say you hadn’t thought it through/ took a punt etc – enjoy the backslap!)

;¬)

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he he @scaryb –

as I say, it practically writes itself….

and Clara as Carla??!?? makes me think…:

Sam – Peter Davison
Diane – Romana II
Frasier – The Master
Lilith – Madame Vastra
Coach – an older Tom Baker

any thoughts on these two?
Norm –
Cliff –

Though I’m sure this works:
Woody – Strax

;¬)

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btw @craig – just a suggestion, but on the homepage, the description of the 50th show thread includes the word “rumours”

As we’ve had postings before of spoilers on non-Spoiler threads, we could hardly blame anyone new for posting spoilery rumours if that’s how we invite people in!

😉

(but if I’m being paranoid, ignore me!)

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“where no-one knows, your name…”

[burm dahm dahm-dahmm]

where-err no-one kno-wws you’re naayayme”

[burm dahm dahm-dahmm]

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Hi @denvaldron,

I was replying to you here via an iPad – there the greatest thing according to some, but I still haven’t managed to turn off the bloody auto-correct so my reply didn’t link to you.

as I was saying to @miapatrick on another topic, computers do exactly what you tell them.

[sigh]

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Hi @LBJ19 (and anyone else!) – not sure if you’ve posted before, but just in case you haven’t, I don’t want to think that you’re not welcome just because your post was moved (and importantly not deleted!)

I think you should treat anything which is undoubtedly ‘factual’ (eg a picture of someone on set, an insider who’s told you that Prince Charles is guest starring as the Master etc) as Spoilers (unless someone says ‘erm, no, we all know that JLC has signed on for another year’).

In a way, the Spoilers thread are a quarantine zone for stuff which is ‘fact’.

Basically a lot of people here love speculating/ theorising.

Actual real-world facts as to the next episode are anathema to speculation.

Facts as to what will happen kill speculation dead.

But…. facts as to what will happen are like fan catnip (fannip?) and many here are weak, so we set up the quarantine zone of the Spoilers thread.

You’re absolutely welcome to post insider stuff to that thread, but the other threads are for speculation (as well as general stoopidity, avatar updating, deep Wholore knowledge, in-Whoniverse badinage, disagreements over the worth of Bakers etc etc and even more fun etc).

long post, but short message – welcome!

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also, I’m an ignoramus (great word, terrible fella) but whatever i did to make @scaryb spluter I apologise.

and I didn’t touch her, honest.

I was all the way across the bar at the time.

:¬)

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i know I’ll regret this but……..

@den aldrin – I actually prefer your theory to @badwulf‘s for most of the reasons you posit. It’s elegant.

But, there are very good reasons to run simulations of old scenarios even when they are ‘irrelevant’ to contemporary technology.

Strategists often revisit ancient and old battles to learn why they worked. They rerun them to work out why they worked. If anything, it’s to see how the combatants dealt with luck etc. If anything it’s to teach them to be sneaky, brave, decisive, aware, resourceful – traits that are useful to any commander.

There is also the pride/ competitive aspect: “I could have won that battle, even with their resources”

So, two reasons you’d run simulations of old battles (I obviously rule out “fun”).

But I still prefer your theory!

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@miapatrick – so many students saying “I don’t know where I am”

Thanks for this as a lovely springboard for the imagination!

The real problem with computers, is that they do *exactly* what you say.

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Ah I’d stick with the Rose & Crown,

But I’ll have 4 Bloody Marys please.

😉

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Hmmm mm….

(thinks whether there’s thread crossover potential for the Music thread and the pub’s jukebox in the corner…)

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Btw, do you think I should pitch my idea to HBO?

“basically it’s Cheers with Doctor Who as the landlord”

It pretty much writes itself… and each episode can end “Time everyone, please”

Spinoff gold, I’m telling ya.

.

.

Obviously the US version would use the template of that nice man Davison’s Doctor, whereas the UK version would be modelled on the more garrulous Baker’s, with more weariness, sauce and invective…

I’ll get me coat

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btw, I think that’s make a great spinoff show.

A Timelord called The Landlord, Tardis-less and slumming it in an Earth pub, spewing forth his universe-weary pearls of wisdom.

.

and a white wine for the companion.

;¬)

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a few people here coming up with for other names of pubs…

maybe this thread should be called “Down the pub” and we can nominate ‘venues’ for certain weeks.

Also, as there was a fear of rowdiness, if anything does kick off while we’re ‘in’ the Slaughtered Sontaran (for instance), our landlord @craig could always call “Time” and head off for The Dead Bird….

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wow – just saw the minisodes up-thread.

They really do explain or give a flavour of the relationship of River and the Doctor. The Amy ones less so, but River’s – absolutely.

And thanks again @wolfweed – as I think i sadi, i’m enjoying the Clara-Zeligs.

and are we calling her fragmentations “Claricles”?

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loving the crown @chickenelly – suits you.

and loving the Rose & Crown.

as ever, I fancy the barmaid (sigh).

though, as ever, there’s no chance anything will happen…

.

and @craig, ironically I actually look like Brad Pitt.

;¬)

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Hi all – if we are to close tNotD thread, may I suggest that we give everyone the weekend to add whatever they want?

It might be a good way to tease out any remaining theories but also some bonkers from any lurkers (nothing like a countdown to increase activity!)

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I’m with you @whohar – the more I read of @denvaldron the more I’m convinced!

However that last phrase “Let me think about it for a while” makes me think of Deep Thought.

.

.

And I’m scared.

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aww @timeloop you genius. Totally agree!!

I had thought to put ‘Hurt’ here, but hadn’t thought to look for Who compilations! (original Cash video being so moving what with his wife June Carter passing away soon after).

And my god, doesn’t Matt look young!

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he he he ha ha!!

Brilliant!!

ok, my penance was to have to wade through a few poor quality vids.

Your penance is to wait through some appalling ‘acting’ to get to a classic track.

@craig – for you are, The Prince

.

.

(its even got a blue bow tie!)

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Hey (oi) @craig – thing about a Modded – you have to listen and reply!

;¬)

Mind you, you could also point your ring at me*.

[ahem]

.

.

.

*that’s a movie ref. honest.

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@denvaldron
woah! – tall order to reply properly to your original post, which was obviously well thought through.

However, never let an outrageous request go unanswered.

So….

[ahem]

1) Chameleon Arch’d Doctor Cushing – yep
2) Time War – “Gallifrey went tits up” – yep
3) “Time Lords are dicks” – hell yep
4) Fixed points in time… ok….
5) ‘War Games’ leads to regeneration to Cushing – ok, yep….
6) Explains “you’re half-human” – erm… oooooookkkaayyyyy
7) Susan as agent to keep him from remembering – annnnnd back to solid ground!
8) Disabled Control Room – hmm… yep, ok
9) “Time Lords are dicks” – yep!
10) Time Lords screwing with Daleks – yep
11) Send not-quite-Gallifreyan-Doctor to mess with Daleks – hmm? erm.. oookaaaayy….
12) Cushing is off-roading with adventures – ermm…….
13) Cushing collapses his false reality due to Susan crisis at end of 2nd movie – Yep! great crisis point! yesyes!
14) Sorry, there is no 14 – end of canon.

;¬o

so, mainly yes, its late (for me) and I kinda had to hmm during some bits in the middle, but overall all it all holds together magnificently and – and this is *important – its fun and logically coherent.

.

.

*importance for me was fun – logic was a boon!!

Also, perhaps more importantly, I like a real affection for a doctor (and I know you don’t think he’s perfect but simply a character of his time) but I now am beginning to get an affection for Cushing…

jeez I might even rewatch the films!

thankyou!

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OI! CRAIG! Keep yer spoileryness to yerself!!

You’re Modded!!

ah well, let bygones be zy…….

;¬)

[Whisht @replies]

and the note above gives me the pleasure of posting on the Music thread.

I mean, how else can I tell Craig he’s Modded?

;¬)

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Hi @budinacup – apologies on @craig‘s behalf, but there were lots of speculation although also one of us here (I may be wrong but perhaps Bluesqueakpip or ScaryB) suggested that they’re the easiest misdirection that the production team could use to confuse speculators (even bonkers ones like us).

or especially bonkers ones like us (who still think Ganger Doctor is on the prowl).

Its all speculation as we haven’t seen the episode yet and Moff may be misdirecting.

So – shall we keep this thread entirely devoid of press clippings, Film set photos, BBC postings, interview-watching speculation, etc and only for bonkers speculation?

even if we think everyone must have seen [thing we’ve seen no matter how media pervasive as others live in other countries].

please?

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Hi @denvaldron – I love your retcon of Cushing! For me it works.

And its not like I’ve been tossing and turning about whether he’s been misunderstood or that his films were terrible.

They exist, I saw them (or at least one) and erm, well, that’s it.

But, I completely get the Chameleon Arch retcon and get that it works!

Now, you also happen to fold in about 13 other *big ideas* into your first post, so I’ll have to go back and work out if I’m with them as well, but thanks so much for diving in – its a pleasure to read your thoughts!

[clears throat overly audibly]

I propose that we include Cushing in the Faces of the Doctor thread!

And I do that as I love your theory and also (mischievously) know that it’ll throw others here into floops of flunder (i’ve just made that up) as they’ll hate it, not know what to do with it, won’t add up properly and won’t know which month to sandwich it into!

but…… don’t care – maybe a leap month for Cushing and Harndel?

thanks again (and don’t care if you don’t care that I liked it!)

;¬)

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blimey – lots of great theories! Thanks everyone!

Loving the idea(s) that the Hurt Doctor started the War in the name of sanity (just how mad was time-travel and the Timelords getting??!??), and that Clara releases him by mistake.

[sigh], I could do with an army, a sprinkle, a dusting of Claras to tidy up my life.

Would these splintered Claras be “Claricles”?

I was thinking of snow, and stories. (and Claraflakes sounds like a cereal).

And if they are, can anyone spare a few to solve/keep tally of all the bonkers theories??

;¬)

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