Boom

[Craig @craig Emperor]

It’s the return of the Moff. Stephen Moffat comes back to Doctor Who with what sounds like a very high-concept script.

Caught in the middle of a devastating war on Kastarion 3, the Doctor is trapped when he steps on a landmine. Can he save himself and Ruby, plus the entire planet … without moving?

Sounds like it has echoes of the scene from “Genesis of the Daleks” when the fourth Doctor stepped on a landmine on Skaro and had to be rescued by Harry.

Written by Moffat, it is directed by Julie Anne Robinson, who already directed “Space Babies”.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

I’ll give my thoughts as it’s a Moffat script. I think that’s probably the episode that has appealed to me the most so far, as I prefer sci-fi over fantasy. And I liked the high-concept. And it was, for all the budget, a bottle episode, and Doctor Who in a quarry (which is fun for us older viewers).

It had a lot of good ideas. And Moffat really has a thing for religious soldiers, doesn’t he? I just think the resolution let it down. I will watch again when it is not 1am. But I think it was rushed and was an almost literal deus ex machina. Nothing wrong with that, just not to my taste.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

WOW!

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Sorry @craig Ending made sense for me – virus, antivirus. AI. AI fights back. Very Moff. Love (parental) saves the day. Clerical soldiers (again!), war as capitalism. Reminded me a bit of Oxygen (which I also loved). And yes (as Moffat’s said in interviews) ripped off/inspired by Genesis of the Daleks.

Disneyfication of DW? Capitulation to US audiences? So far we’ve had a go at pro lifers, plight of refugees, organised religion, capitalism (ambulances that kill you if you’re not economically viable (WTF!!)), war. Bring it on!

Yes there’s plot holes, stretching of disbelief… that smart mine really isn’t so smart… but I LOVED this one!

More later (when it’s not so late and I’m more sober!!). Look forward to hearing everyone’s views.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Absolutely loved it. This is what Moffat does–he adds gravitas to, well, everything. With RTD2 the relationship between the Doctor and Ruby was sweet and full of fun; here, the relationship was tested with visible threat. And it means that we will carry that experience through to the next time we see them together. The snow for example. As a result of the way they interacted in this story, the snow implies something more serious than in did in RTD2 episodes.

And the issues this one dealt with: AI, capitalism, organized religion, were, well, serious on a scale that RTD2 hasn’t offered.

More thoughts…later.

 

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@scaryb Nothing to be sorry about 🙂

The ending works for me too. I just think, if I was giving notes, The Doctor should have somehow reprogrammed the AI John to attack your recurring friend Susan Twist. It would have given The Doctor more agency.

By the way, is Susan Twist real? I haven’t Googled her. I’m not sure I want to.

[WhoHar @whohar]

Thought it was the best ep yet. But….I didn’t love it. A lot of old themes brought back.

That said, I thought it was the best performance by both Millle and Ncuti.

And more snow….

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@craig The actress is real, but to be honest, I am getting a little irritated by RTD2 dropping her into every episode. One would assume that just like us watching, the Doctor can see this same face in every episode. But with no response on his part. The payoff better be pretty good.

 

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

Wow Gatwa is excellent, isn’t he! And Gibson held her own beautifully.

Those tense exchanges as the Doctor balances on the landmine – the fear, the stress, the emotion and the thinking calculation arising from the depths of our very old Gallifreyan friend, as he deals with his very young Earth companion in this deeply dangerous spot he’s got them both into – wonderfully gripping.

Delighted to have Moff back aboard the Who train.

The Doctor is as scathing about capitalist war-for-profit as we would wish him to be.

And who could have forseen that this episode would, in bitter tragedy, be resonating quite so heavily in our world as it is now. If you haven’t heard of “Lavender” and “The Gospel”, Israel’s war AIs controlling their drone-strikes see here:

https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes

@scaryb  Yes, the determination of RTD2′ s Who to bop Disney audiences on the nose with food for political thought is definitely a relief. And Moff really exposes that perennial platitude, “thoughts and prayers”, heard from religious pro-gun Republicans whenever there is another hideous school shooting, with targeted venom here.

The Doctor referring to himself openly as a “Dad” is definitely intriguing and made me wonder if, in some timey wimey manner, Ruby will turn out to be his daughter and hence Susan’s mother.

The snow fall, combined with this series’ theme of the world of fantasy bleeding into reality, has made me think of Hans Christian Andersen’s The Snow Queen. Will the Doctor end up with a splinter of ice in his hearts, with Ruby’s love required to save him?

 

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

And there is singing in this episode again – the Doctor sings the Skye Boat Song.

Obviously that’s a nod to Gatwa’s Scottish self. It’s also a song about an exile (Bonnie Prince Charlie, the Stuart would-be King) and one who tries to return home, but cannot, and must ultimately live the rest of his life in exile. So perhaps that song resonated with the Doctor as he contemplated his mortality (pretty sure you can’t regenerate if you get blown to smithereens) now that Gallifrey has been destroyed (again).

Apparently, the Skye Boat Song is a 19thC adaptation of an older 18thC Gaelic song, Cuckoo of the Grove, in which a man laments his lost love:

Chuachag nan Craobh, Cuckoo Of The Grove

Who is the other parent of the Doctor’s child/ children? Are we circling that?

We don’t, of course, know whether the Doctor was in a female or male incarnation when they became a parent (or indeed, whether the Doctor’s child/ children were grown in the Looms).

Then there’s the ditty the Doctor recites:

“I went down to the beach

And there she stood,

Dark and tall, at the edge of the wood.

‘The sky’s too big. I’m scared,’ I cried.

She replied,

‘Young man, don’t you know there’s more to life

Than the moon and president’s wife?'”

A beach at the edge of a wood put me in mind of Edward Lear’s wonderful poem The Owl and the Pussycat:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43188/the-owl-and-the-pussy-cat

which my child self loved, but which I didn’t realise, until much later, was a queer love song (no gender revealed for either the Owl or the Pussycat).

Who is the mysterious “she” in the Doctor’s ditty?

Apparently (I’d forgotten this, so credit to others on the interwebs) Missy tells Clara in The Magician’s Apprentice (9×01) when Clara asks how long she’s know the Doctor: “Since always. Since the Cloister Wars, since the night he stole the moon and the president’s wife, since he was a little girl. One of those was a lie; can you guess which one?”

So I’m back to wondering whether Missy/ The Master and the Doctor were once lovers and parents together.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@juniperfish Thanks for the information and the reflections. You put up a strong case for the possibility that we may find out far more about the Doctor’s past. Indeed, we (or at least, I) have assumed that it was Ruby’s past that we would discover as the season went on, but it may well be that we discover more of both their pasts. Inter-linked pasts?

Clearly time to watch the episode (along with “The Church at Ruby Road”) again.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@blenkinsopthebrave Yes, and the Doctor quotes Philip Larkin at the end of the episode; “What will survive of us is love” which is from the poem An Arundel Tomb:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47594/an-arundel-tomb

which is about a lovers’ tomb and contains a reference to snow:

“Persisted, linked, through lengths and breadths
Of time. Snow fell, undated. Light
Each summer thronged the glass. A bright
Litter of birdcalls strewed the same
Bone-riddled ground. And up the paths
The endless altered people came,

Washing at their identity…”

and the last verse is:

“Time has transfigured them into
Untruth. The stone fidelity
They hardly meant has come to be
Their final blazon and to prove

Our almost-instinct almost true:
What will survive of us is love.”

I’m definitely getting tingles about the idea of beloveds separated through time – whether those beloveds are parents and children or lovers or both remains to be seen… but Ruby is pulling snow, ephemeral beautiful snow, through time and space and memory.

[Mudlark @mudlark]

Perhaps this wasn’t quite top tier Moffatt, but it was still very good indeed and, as was the Moff’s stated intention, generated a surprising degree of tension, notwithstanding the knowledge that the Doctor must inevitably survive. Even though I had exposed myself to multiple spoilers and had a good idea of what to expect, I was fully engaged and on the edge of the sofa throughout.

No doubt there will be the usual complaints about the social and political messages embedded in the narrative, but sadly they are needed more than ever and I don’t think they were too blatant. Eisenhauer warned of the dangers inherent in the growth of the military/industrial complex way back in the 1950’s, not that much notice was taken then or since because, as the Doctor said, ‘War is business’, and it’s all good if it drives the economy. And where weapons and materiel have been stockpiled there are always people who can find a pretext for putting these products to use. Then come the deaths and the inevitable ‘thoughts and prayers’ – the mantra of those with no true empathy. Whether not religion  provides a pretext for war or helps to fuel it – well, that very much depends on who professes that religion and how they interpret it’s tenets.

As others have noted, there were lots of delectable call-backs, beginning with John Francis Vater’s laconic ‘Dad skills’, which is how  Capaldi Doctor explained his ability to send the child Danny to sleep in Listen’, so yes, it seems that the idea of the Doctor as father and family man may be coming to the fore.  The concept of hand phones – mobile phone technology implanted in people’s hands – was, I suspect, inserted by RTD, because it figured previously in Years and Years, perhaps inspired originally by the manner in which people mime phoning.

 

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@juniperfish

Thanks for the reminder of that poem. It has a particular resonance …

 Ruby is pulling snow, ephemeral beautiful snow, through time and space and memory.

If only RTD has the delicacy of touch to realise this emerging theme1

[syzygy @thane16]

Cor, it’s lovely to read everyone’s wonderful ideas and memories of past episodes: the doctor’s ditty “the moon and the President’s wife.” I KNEW I recognised it from time past….

thank you to @juniperfish and to @scaryb @blenkinsopthebrave @mudlark and @craig

So much to read and ponder on and respond to! whee-hay!!
Puro.

[syzygy @thane16]

@mudlark yes, one thing about RTD is that ….lack of delicacy …but in rewatching the Tennant years, and of course the Ecceleston years also, RTD has ….I was about to say “matured” as a writer which is a tad arch of me. Still, great to see a completely different episode in this season: more dialogue and less shouty shouty..And I love a callback.

This episode came at the right time too.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@juniperfish – Thanks for all the links, and insights (as always). The Owl and The Pussycat – a fave of mine too – and no, I didn’t realise its subtext either.  Re The Skye Boat Song – that’s also a call back to the Troughton era (the Yeti in London (recently rediscovered and revitalised)) – Troughton plays it on his flute. So there’s also a wee reference there to Jamie (be still my 10 year old’s  heart!) ) as its reference to Bonnie Prince Charlie is contemporary with him.

Useful link here about all(?) the Easter eggs in Boom – https://mashable.com/article/doctor-who-boom-easter-eggs

@mudlark not quite top tier Moffat but second tier Moffat Who is still much above everyone else! And for me, it’s close. Everything is in there, but you have to pay attention to pick up on it all.

@craig (@blenkinsopthebrave and everyone!) – yes Susan Twist is a real actress (some TV stuff, film and lots of theatre). Interestingly she also appears in Wild Blue Yonder – as Isaac Newton’s housekeeper. So maybe that scene isn’t as random as we’ve been led to believe. And maybe there’s a reason the Isaac is Black, as opposed to colour blind casting to annoy the trolls! Or a lack of available actors as RTD is apparently saying! It does seem that something is interfering with the timelines.

One more thought about the show and anti-war themes – again, waaay back, with Troughton – in The War Games the Time Lords (first appearance) are plucking soldiers out of their timelines to play at war. For their own amusement if I remember correctly (it’s been a while!). Moffat’s  calling out about big arms business actually creating war for profit really resonates with me.  With Boom suggesting not just the landmine but also booming business for Villengard. I’ve been thinking very much the same recently.

Second watch through and I still love it!

It also couldn’t have been earlier in the run – you couldn’t start off a new series and a new platform with this, has to be worked up to. Lull viewers into a false sense of campy fun (which is also very much DW)!

Btw – does anyone know what’s happened to @bluesqueakpip? Is she still around? I miss her insightful input.

Thoughts and prayers everyone!! 😉

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@thane16

Puro!!!!

Great to see you

[WhoHar @whohar]

<span class=”useratname”>@blenkinsopthebrave</span>

Re the payoff. There may not be one, it could just be an RTD joke. Hopefully not.

Some decent stuff in this episode. It felt very familiar, probably due to a lot of themes being re-purposed. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing.

As @craig said above, it was more Sci fi and dialled down the fantasy side which I also prefer. Some of the Sci part was best not being thought about too deeply, and I’m never a fan of the love conquers all ending (see also Closing Time)

I like the chamber piece episodes, as there is generally less running around and more thought.

Lots of mad theories already, and that’s great. On the Devil’s Chord thread I postulated that the whole season might be based in a Mind Robber-like Land of Fiction; this would help explain some of the anachronisms.

Odd to think we are almost halfway through this season already…

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Hi all liked this episode much more than the first 2. It had a much more classical who feel. I am beginning to wonder about Ruby and is it possible this might be Susan’s daughter that she has somehow sent to the doctor to look after, as she would be his great granddaughter but only part galifreyan and possibly another hybrid. Though what is it with RTD and Moffat having to have a big mystery surrounding the female companions it seems to be a constant theme over the years of NuWho.

 

[Charlie Cook @cookgroom]

Brilliant episode! A good dig at holy wars – interesting comment about almost all wars have been about religion.

Quick scan of the comments, nobody seems to have latched onto inability to identify the next of kin. last line of the show was from a poem by philip larkin.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@whohar

Lots of mad theories already, and that’s great. On the Devil’s Chord thread I postulated that the whole season might be based in a Mind Robber-like Land of Fiction; this would help explain some of the anachronisms.

Who-oof! That’s a thought and a half!

@cookgroom Good call on the “next of kin” thing about Ruby. Maybe it was unable to find her n.o.k. because they will (should) all be dead by now. But yes, clearly (especially as Susan Twist s involved!) it could be something else about her that is deeply hidden (like the music last week). Wonder if The Doctor is on its database….!

Bit more thought about An Arundel Tomb – beautiful poem, which is not quite as unambiguous/straightforward about love everlasting as it might appear on first reading, or when lines are taken out of context. It’s also about the passage of time and decay and how things can possibly be misinterpreted when viewed by a different culture and a different time.  And there’s also this bit:

…Rigidly they

Persisted, linked, through lengths and breadths
Of time. Snow fell, undated…

Full thing here, if anyone wants to check it out.

[janetteB @janetteb]

First I must confess, I have read all the comments before watching the episode. I have been really looking forward to this, the return of Moffat to Dr Who and it did not disappoint. it was so good, tense, political, and with emotional depth. Ncuti really “aced” it. This is the first time we have seen the depth of his Doctor.  He has so much energy and in this that is all focussed simply on keeping still. Ruby is shaping up to be a very good companion. She reminds me of Clara but I daren’t say that too loudly as some members of the household didn’t like Clara. Also I love Sky Boat Song, and the context was perfect. (only good thing about Outlander was the use of the music at the beginning and that it was inspired by Dr Who.)

Probably digging too deep but Larkin also has a link to 1963. (Claiming it was the year that sex began in Britain)

As with all Moffat episodes, I really need to watch it again.

Was it Villenguard or just a similar name that is mentioned in Doctor Dances or Empty Child? The one that is now a banana plantation?

cheers

Janette

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@janetteb

Yes, the first mention was in The Doctor Dances. Captain Jack used a blaster to open a locked door in the hospital. The Doctor explained to Rose that it was a ‘ Sonic blaster, 51st century, weapon factories of Villengaard’.  Jack noted that the factories were destroyed when the main reactor went critical and the Doctor then added that there was a banana plantation there now, ‘I like bananas, bananas are good’ – which come to think of it is something that the eleventh Doctor might have said

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@scaryb

Re The Skye Boat Song – that’s also a call back to the Troughton era (the Yeti in London (recently rediscovered and revitalised)) – Troughton plays it on his flute.

Someone on T’Other place mentioned that the Great Intelligence (whom we meet for the first time in that Troughtn story) is associated with snow. so there’s a possible link to Clara, as she scattered herself through the Doctor’s timeline in Moffat’s The Name of the Doctor to defeat the Great Intelligence.

Someone else on T’Other place pointed out that snow, as frozen water, suggests a possible link to Amy Pond and River Song.

I think RTD2 and Moff are determined to leave as many diversionary breadcrumbs as possible to keep us guessing regarding the mystery of Ruby’s parentage.

So far we have:

1) Related to the Doctor’s granddaughter Susan, either as a descendent or (in timey wimey fashion, as a parent) because of the Susan Twist actor who seems to follow Ruby through time

2) Related to Amy/ River via different forms of water association

3) Related to Clara because Clara jumped into the Doctor’s timeline to defeat The Great Intelligence, who is associated with snow

4) Possibly seeded by The Great Intelligence as a trap for the Doctor

Any others?

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@craig a bottle episode, indeed, and this is something I have noticed in the new RTD Who. Bigger budgets, but yet, I don’t think it’s affected the contents. And this is a big example of it, it could easily have just been filmed in the BBC sci-fi quarry without making any real difference. And this I think is a good thing – the effects budget is mostly being treated as decorative. So there doesn’t feel as though there’s that dependence on it, yet.

@mudlark – I noticed the dad skills and the link to the episode with child-Danny

@thane16 re the lack of delicacy/woke crap etc- I think RTD has moved as a writer, from Queer as Folk to It’s a Sin, he’s really, really bringing the anger now. The love, but also all the anger. And it feels like there’s more right now to be angry about than we might have thought there would be in the 90s and 20o0s. I think sometimes about the people who say ‘ok, yeah, older sci-fi was political too but it wasn’t as in your face’ and I wonder if, if that was true, it was sometimes to subtle too make people take it in? Because some people missed the political content, some people disagreed with the progressive messages and powered through it. He’s not a subtle writer- but he’s not going for subtlety I think. As a side note, in terms of catering to American audiences I think the part about being scared of being picked up by an ambulance has a particular resonance in some places…

@scaryb so there’s a (Susan) Twist at the Start of one of the Anniversary episodes – and then a Twist in each episode of this season so far? And is she following the Doctor?

@juniperfish If it wasn’t pretty likely that Ruby having two hearts would have been noticed in her lifetime, I’d wonder if she’s not a timelord in any way, but she is whatever species The Doctor is. But we don’t really know enough about the Doctor to know he’s a specific species, that he wasn’t an experiment before he was found. And I do wonder with the themes from TBBW, binding with salt, the Toymaster etc following, this extra-dimensionary theme – how far they’ll take this?

@cookgroom Yes that was interesting because in her day to day life on earth, her mother is her next of kin. That’s who she’d have put down on forms all her life. In this particular context, however, that’s difficult – say she and the Doctor die and her mother gets her remains with a hollogram – it’s not ideal, but better than never hearing anything of her again. But she seemed genuinely confused and stumped, and why was she asking the Doctor?Does she assume he knows something?

 

 

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

Apologies for the double-post above folks – @craig please do delete one of them – not sure why it duplicated?

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@miapatrick  @cookgroom

The inability of the ambulance AI to identify Ruby’s next of kin was clearly supposed to be significant, and not simply down to the fact that she had just arrived on the planet and the information was lacking in their records. In fact, since the ambulance  was  able to identify her date of birth and calculate the years that had elapsed, rather than just assessing her biological age, it was apparently able to access an unfeasibly vast database containing the records of every human being since such records began,

The ‘next of kin’ referred to were, I assume, specifically her birth family – the family which Ruby had hoped the researchers on ‘Long Lost Family’* could trace  for her. Like the ambulance, and as Davina McCall reported to her in The Church on Ruby Road, they drew a complete blank – no documentary evidence and no DNA match. The only direct clue so far as to her origins is that, when the Doctor  went back a third time to the scene where she was found, the person leaving the scene turned and pointed directly at him. So whether or not that person was the mother, it was apparently someone who knew or was known to him.

*I think that is the title of the TV programme in question.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Seriously good. Curiously timely. Can he write? Yes he can.

So, what have we here? The Crash of The Byzantium. Demons Run. Malfunctioning Mummy Tech. Nightmare AI hardware ala Oxygen.

And the snowflake?? The Snowmen someone said?

Hmmm. Not sure about the snowflake. We might have been played a bit there. Like Poirot on the Orient Express. Too many clues.

But, yes, lots of stuff about someone whose name begins with S. Don’t forget Stukey Sue and her three babbies!

Three cradles.

A reference to a highway woman.

Another Shobogan/Timeless Child?

This more rounded episode contrasted curiously with the 2 preceding. You would hope RTD is aware they were lacking and where. Will those stories be filled out or completed in the arc?

 

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

@ps1l0v3y0u

Yeah, lots of previous themes and Moffat-isms.

This more rounded episode contrasted curiously with the 2 preceding. You would hope RTD is aware they were lacking and where. Will those stories be filled out or completed in the arc?

There was quite the contrast, and I’d say with all the previous eps right back to The Star Beast.

If RTD is aware of the problems with the first two stories, he is unlikely to have any opportunity to do anything about it now – we can only hope it is part of some wider plan of which we are, currently, unaware.  Given they’ve already started (finished?) filming season 2 / 41, then he would have limited opportunity to change direction there, unless he is going to write on-the-fly.

The pace of filming is interesting. I think it points to Gatwa moving on quite quickly. What it means for the next season is open to debate. Maybe RTD has a fully fleshed-out, season’s worth of stories or maybe he is having to write quickly due to other constraints. Given he got burn out last time, I do wonder how much appetite he will have for a third season if he’s under this much time pressure.

[WhoHar @whohar]

@mudlark

The inability of the ambulance AI to identify Ruby’s next of kin was clearly supposed to be significant

100% agree.

no documentary evidence and no DNA match

Does this imply Ruby has human DNA, because the researchers would have identified any anomaly? If so, it would kibosh some theories. Or does it mean that her DNA had no match because it was alien, thereby supporting said theories?

[WhoHar @whohar]

@miapatrick

Bigger budgets, but yet, I don’t think it’s affected the contents

In a recent interview Moffat talked about budgetary constraints for this season, so it seems the writers’ ideas are outstripping the accountants’ ability to pay for them. As it ever was.

Interestingly, the first Doctor story The Edge of Destruction was a bottle ep, only written because the total Season 1 run was – at that point – two episodes short. David Whittaker, who wrote the scripts at short notice and in only two days, famously described the process as a nightmare.

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@mudlark I think you’re right on the meaning but I’m a little bothered about it because she has a legal next of kin – her mother adopted her. What she has is no genetic relatives. Legal next of kin is generally decided by closest generic relative – or spouse/civil partner – but in cases of adoption, it’s adoptive family. I might be being a bit pedantic because I had to research this quite a bit not long ago (one day I might tell you all about the hospital heist).

 

All that said, she has no living next of kin, it’s clearly long after her mother’s death.But that could be true of any companion… there’s just something about it that feels a little clumsy and I find the use of ‘no next of kin’ a little unfortunate because so far I think they’ve really well balanced the fact that A: she wants to find her biological family but B: she has a mother she loves very much.  I’m still intrigued about the way she was asking the Doctor.

@whoha possibly the magic pot of gold has been widely overestimated. More than you can get out of the BBC doesn’t necessarily translate to a whole dragon’s horde. Still, there’s been a few episodes where you can see where the money was spent for effects – but the story could have been shot without it. And this episode: a quarry, a silkscreen, some inventive use of cardboard boxes. It might have been fun if they’d just gone for it, given some of the fans what they said they wanted. But just as possessions expand to fit a bigger house, or ideas expand to fit a bigger word count, doctor who’s writer’s ambitions, as you say, can probably strain any budget.

 

I always enjoy bottle episodes, I like the way necessity has created a particular kind of episode that even carries over now where there is more money.

 

 

 

 

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@whohar

Does this imply Ruby has human DNA, because the researchers would have identified any anomaly?

On a re-watch of Space Babies I paused on the image of the Tardis scan to see if I could make out any details. Under species scan it definitely said Homo Sapiens, and the DNA scan showed what appeared to be a normal double helix. What was odd was that under Age the scan appeared to say 10 years – though admittedly it was slightly blurred so I couldn’t be absolutely certain. There was also the figure 68%, but I couldn’t make out what it referred to.

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@miapatrick

Legal next of kin is generally decided by closest generic relative – or spouse/civil partner – but in cases of adoption, it’s adoptive family

True in our present day earth, and I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. But this is the whoniverse in the far future and on a distant planet, so the writer is free to make up the rules as serves the plot 😉

[JimTheFish @jimthefish Time Lord]

Well, that was an absolute cracker. Once again, The Moff has come up with the goods. Interesting that some feel it was a piece of second-tier Moff as while it maybe wasn’t in the Blink/Listen/Heaven Sent strata, it was still above the Beast Below/Let’s Kill Hitler tier. Mind you, I’m not one to talk, having been dismissing the recent RTDs as second tier myself.

Certainly, like the RTD episodes there’s an element of ‘greatest hits’ going on here. As others have said above, there’s a lot of Moffatisms in there — the obvious Genesis of the Daleks reference but also elements of Oxygen (again, interesting how it keeps cropping up. Could it be we’ve found another one of Who’s slow classics?), the Magician/Witch two-parter, the s5 Angels two-parter with the military clerics but I was mostly reminded of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances.  But part of me also wonders if this was Moffat’s riposte to Ker-Blaam! with the similarity to the title and with the critique of late-stage war-fuelled capitalism in contrast to Ker-Blaam!’s ‘hey kids, capitalism is a good and necessary thing so just be thankful for yer McJobs).

I get why some might have issues with the ending but I didn’t really mind it. I also get why some might feel RTD doesn’t bring the subtlety in the same way that Moff does but I think that’s slightly unfair. Space Babies and The Devil’s Chord are, I suspect, analogous to Series 1 from Rose to World War Three — slightly more lightweight, rompy stories to break the audience in gently before things take a tonal shift with Dalek onwards. If RTD relies on sentiment and spectacle (which I think he does a lot of the time), Moffat is more driven by emotion and ideas. But RTD can dial the sentiment down when he needs to, as well as dial the darkness up. The two of them together kind of make the ideal showrunner and I do wonder (hope?) that maybe Moffat will step up to the plate again if and when RTD wants a break.

But Moffat certainly seems to have a good handle on this Doctor and on Ruby (who’s really coming into her own now I think, although she does still feel a little like a Rose/Clara hybrid sometimes). We certainly seem to be leaning into the companion as mysterious enigma thing again which feels a bit done to death but I’m still suspecting something of a misdirect. But Gibson was great in this episode while Ncuti was absolutely spectacular. Forcing him to stand still for most of the episode was a genius move and allowed us (and him) to focus on his considerable acting chops rather than his kinetic energy. This episode really did seem to have his first genuine I’m the Doctor moments. On the surface he might still seem a bit of a Tennant-type Doctor but the controlled rage he brought to some of his interactions with Mundy felt very Capaldi-esque.

And on the subject of Mundy, have we now met next series’ companion already? I was very much reminded of Journey Blue from Into the Dalek by her character and she did feel at the time like a potential but unexplored companion. Does make me wonder what kind of long game is planned for Series 2.

All in all, a nice chewy episode which made me realise how much Moffat brought to the table (it seems no one quite fuels the bonkerising on these forums as much as he does).

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Courtesy of Mrs Blenkinsop, an interesting reflection on Philip Larkin’s “An Arundel Tomb”

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/articles/69418/philip-larkin-an-arundel-tomb

 

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@blenkinsopthebrave

Yes re the ambiguity of the last lines of the poem:

Our almost-instinct almost true: 
What will survive of us is love

And I’m back to thinking about the Master and the Doctor and their relationship.

We’ve got the Chekhov’s gun of finding out in The Giggle that the Master was imprisoned inside a gold tooth by The Toymaker (which we see being picked up by someone unknown in that episode, after the Doctor banishes the Toymaker). So we know the Master is getting out of that sparkly tooth, right? And coming back at some point in the Gatwa era.

The Master’s genocide of Gallifrey seems, in The Timeless Children,  to have come from a narcissist rage that the Doctor (thanks to Tecteun’s unethical genetic experiements) was revealed as the origin of all the Time Lords.

But I wonder… what if in all this twisted once-upon-a-timey-wimey, something terrible happened to the child (children) the Master and the Doctor once had together? Something so painful neither of them ever speak of it, but it’s what eats away at the toxic core of their relationship – the canker in the rose. And finding out the Doctor is, technically, the parent of all Timelords (when they’ve lost their own child/ children) sends the Master over the edge.

What will survive of us is love, but love can be very tainted love – “There’s always a twist at the end”…

Obviously my bonkerising is over-heating and I’ll have to go and have a my tea to calm down 🙂

If Moffat was showrunner I think I’d be on the money, as Moffat loves a family drama, but not so sure this is where RTD2 is going with it…

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@juniperfish It goes without saying that I love your over-heated bonkerising!

Re: the reflection on Larkin above, why does the Doctor quote Larkin? Apart from his free and easy attitude to women, his views on race were problematic to say the least. So why Larkin? What is Moffat and/or RTD2 asking us to think about?

I can understand your attachment to the notion of a union/child between the Doctor and the Master. For me, the jury is still out on that one. But the idea is intriguing.

But why Larkin? Nothing is accidental or incidental when it comes to both RTD2 and Moffat.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Haha @juniperfish

Great to back to proper bonkerising again!

How about Mrs Flood? Where does she fit in? I get the feeling we’re being distracted from her. (Flood, unfrozen snow, Pond, River… )

@blenkinsopthebrave

But why Larkin?

Well it COULD just be the poem, but the Doctor does make reference to the sad little man who wrote it… Course he was also famous for his comment on parenting – “they f*ck you up your mum and dad…” which could tie in with Juniperfish’s theory about the Doctor and the Master! (And one more thought on that – Checkhov’s tooth was picked up by a very nail-polished hand – Maestro?)

Nothing is accidental or incidental when it comes to both RTD2 and Moffat.

Indeedy 😀 (Especially when you see how much they’ve been obfuscating about Moff’s return!)  I love this little clip which came out this week:

And this too – talking about how to write DW. These two are a real double act. I suspect they share ideas a lot more than they let on. Apparently Moffat was one of the first people RTD told about going back:

There was a bit in an interview with SM where he mentions that he’s had an eye on Season 2/15/41 “for reasons that will become clear in due course”! River? Or another returning Moff character?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Back to Boom – interesting image from the first scene, which is at the head of this page – a blinded (and blindfolded) soldier stumbling around with a big gun. Very metaphorical. It also reminds me of something but I can’t think what yet… It does put me in mind of the art from 1980s 2000 AD – particularly Ezquerra, Brian Bolland. Especially the gun, but there’s also something about the blindfold.

One thing that’s come a lot in the discussions is Moff being criticised for repeating himself. For me it’s more that he’s writing the same universe, so why wouldn’t the clerical soldiers, the Villengard weapons factories etc come up again? Likewise gizmos that preserve at least an impression of a person after death are a thing in his universe. (And maybe a way to introduce a more compforting idea of death for younger viewers).

Last thought for now – Splice. That’s an extremely odd name!

[WhoHar @whohar]

@scaryb

a blinded (and blindfolded) soldier

I’ve been (over) thinking about this… how did he get injured? Presumably on the battlefield, but a battlefield with no enemies? Shrapnel from another mine perhaps.

Also were the mines invisible until stepped on? If so, that raises another question – at some point there was the Doc (already primed), and then Ruby, Splice and Mundy all within a few feet of invisible mines potentially, and all just moving around. Seems…reckless.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@whohar

how did he get injured?

That struck me as well. I like the idea that the “enemy” doesn’t exist – metaphorical shadows and mud. But yes, in that case, who/what causes the casualties? Are the ambulances even more sinister than they look? Are there ambulance equivalent “enemy” tanks that we haven’t seen?  Villengard (or whoever is buying their weapons) AI remotely controlling explosive devices?

And yes, reckless – first thing you should be thinking if your companion stands on a mine is – are there any more?! And it looks very disconcertingly like a roomba (those little robot vacuum cleaners!) 😉

[WhoHar @whohar]

@scaryb

Killer roombas, I like it! I recall an animated show “Love “Death and Robots” on Netflix and an episode called “Automated Customer Service” which has such a device. It’s adult animation with a mix of horror, sci-fi and comedy, and they explore some interesting themes. I’d recommend.

 I like the idea that the “enemy” doesn’t exist

I had the same initial feeling. Although I now think it would have been more powerful to have Villengard selling weapons to the “bad” side as well as the “good” side.  Showing a complete lack of any morals, and giving them a way to massively increase their income. Keep selling each side progressively better weaponry to alter which side was winning, thereby increasing the desperation of the losing side, and making them buy the next gen of weapons. Ad infinitum.  Double bubble as Del Boy might have said.

Although Moffat’s theme of blind faith would have needed some rethinking in the above scenario.

[dwnerdfrommars @dwnerdfrommars]

Guys, I think Ruby Sunday might be the One Who Waits and The Doctor might not know it and possibly maybe Ruby goes back in time and does exactly what The Doctor told her not to do. And that “There’s always a twist at the end” and in Boom, with Varada Sethu’s character, I think it’s foreshadowing something huge.

[dwnerdfrommars @dwnerdfrommars]

There also has been a surge of people that want to come back to Doctor Who, like Carole Ann Ford.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@scaryb – Good thought on the resonance of Larkin to the story arc via his most famous “they f- you up” poem on the difficult relationship between parents and children:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48419/this-be-the-verse

I agree “Splice” is a very odd name for a kid, and I wonder if her name is also meant to resonate with the story-arc, because what do we commonly think of when we use the word “splice”? Gene-splicing.  And now we know the Time Lords were created by Tecteun by gene-splicing the Timeless Child’s (the Doctor’s) DNA into Shobogan DNA.

It’s interesting, isn’t it, that those great foes in The Time War, the Daleks and the Time Lords, now turn out to be species which have both have been genetically engineered by Mengele-type immoral scientists (Davros and Tecteun respectively).

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@juniperfish

It’s interesting, isn’t it, that those great foes in The Time War, the Daleks and the Time Lords, now turn out to be species which have both have been genetically engineered by Mengele-type immoral scientists (Davros and Tecteun respectively).

Absolutely! (And both with aspirations to rule/control the universe).

I’m just hoping RTD2’s not planning on finding the Dr’s original parents any time soon. The great thing about The Timeless Child concept is that it brings back the mystery to the Doctor’s origins, as well as separating them a bit from the psychopathic TimeLords.  Is there another race out there (possibly beyond the universe) who can regenerate… or was the Doctor originally abandoned for being a weird anomaly, potentially the only one of his kind?

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@scaryb @juniperfish

Is there another race… that can regenerate?

What exactly do Mire ‘genetic sticking plasters’ do? When does healing become regeneration? What did it do when combined with the human dna of genius.

I don’t think ‘Splice’, as a name, can possibly be any kind of accident.

Has anyone come any closer to ‘the moon and the President’s Wife’? Of course (since the Invasion of Time) The Doctor IS President. And Dr Moon is the central processor for The Library, in which his wife is preserved/incarcerated.

Or that is a lie and The Loon really did know him when he was s little girl.

Or The Loon lied completely Exxilon City stylee.

Or The Loon is such a loon that truth and lies no longer has a meaning for him/her… er they.

I’m still going with The Loon is Max Capricorn’s tooth. It really does that!

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

More thoughts on Larkin.

He was credited with being the first Librarian to digitize his library. it was the university library in Hull (think “Blink” for Hull and also think of Doctor Moon for the digitized library).

 

 

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