General Open Thread – TV Shows (2)
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Craig 4 years, 2 months ago.
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10 March 2017 at 15:43 #55773
Yes, Happy Buffy Day everyone! I was browsing @jimthefish‘s superb blogs earlier. Nicked some of my own Buffy comments on this forum for a hasty blog – https://cathannabel.wordpress.com/2017/03/10/a-slight-apocalypse/
Really really want to rewatch from the beginning but might settle for a few highlights…
11 March 2017 at 00:44 #55775Anonymous @
@cathannabel @jimthefish @missrori @pedant
Me too! I even used some quotes from Buffy during philosophy class -the teacher, ‘old school’ got it -none of the kids did. Shame. Mum is watching season 4 and often says it doesn’t have the same punch as 3 or 5 and yet it has some terrific individual episodes. Also those great throwaway funnies are awesome.
To Buffy. Hip hip hooray. 😀
11 March 2017 at 01:12 #55776@cathannabel @missrori @jimthefish @pedant
Thanks Miss Rori for the links!! Mum and I just read them -well, mainly she did (I’m trying to work out my philosophy homework -if ANYONE can tell me their view points on this I’d be grateful: “Is happiness related to things of any kind?” Pretty sure it’s an obvious question but I’m 2nd guessing!) and she left a comment on the Guardian page written by a Lucy person? Mengen/Mangan? The article was good & the comments were fantastic. It seems there is no-one on earth who doesn’t like Buffy!!
You know what? About a year ago, Mum gave an 18 year old friend the first 3 seasons as a gift. She even sent a note to James Marsters agency and asked for an autograph. How cool’s that?
The friend hasn’t even watched them.
What. A. Dick. 🙁
We’re going to do a BuffWatch today -in between Mad Men (Vincent Kartheiser! -related to Angel so that connects some dots). I love Mad Men. Mum, not so much. There’s a lot of sex. It’s a bit red-face for me. She pretends to have tired eyes during those. And the smoking they do. Bad on!
Thank you,
Thano
11 March 2017 at 02:39 #55779@cathannabel @missrori @jimthefish @Thane15
There is a small possibility I might have commented on the Graun thread…
Anyway, worth noting that RTD and Moff have both explicitly acknowledged the debt to Buffy.
Season 5 of Buffy remains, to me, the finest single season of TV storytelling in any genre, ever. Matt Smith’s first season (S5 also, of course) came close to catching the perfect storm of arc, performance and metaphor that Buffy caught with the run from The Body to The Gift, but that is a mighty high standard to set.
11 March 2017 at 09:38 #55780Yes sir. Mum remembered you made a passing ref to Buff about 2 years ago and she said, “erm, is it good, erm?”
You said what you did above and lo and behold we got it! I mean we really got it!
For the record, I love, love PeterCapaldi in Who but my allegiance is to Mat Smith -time of my life I guess, although a few stories (the hotel one) was so scary at the time I couldn’t watch it.
Happy Buffy day!
11 March 2017 at 09:55 #55781Mum ALSO commented. The first time was lovely; to the idiot who complained about Lucy’s incorrect choices, not so nice! Also she wants you to know she nicked your line “arcastic”
She’ll buy you a drink at the pub apparently.
There were a few nasties on the Guardian (or, what’s it called here?) anyway, they said the usual: “Buffy was sh**” etc. Apparently Anthony Head said he can’t remember all the bits fans point out to him. He’s 61 AND the hours they worked were pretty tough so, I’m not surprised.
Anyway, I’m gonna watch Bridge over the River Kwai to prepare for soccer at 7 am tomorrow! Aaaaaagh.
11 March 2017 at 12:25 #55782Basically what @pedant said re. the two s5s. Two of the best handled arcs in TV of any genre in the best two decades.
And The Graun is so terminally toxic these days that I’ve killed that incarnation of Jim The Fish over there.
15 March 2017 at 17:31 #55801American Gods starts in April too, from the fantastic book by Neil Gaiman. So far it’s looking pretty damn good. The tale of Shadow and the mysterious man who claims Wednesday is his day!
Is on Starz in the US, and Amazon Prime in rest of the world, from what I can tell.
15 March 2017 at 23:20 #55802Apropos to debates of long ago, 3 episodes in and it seems that with season 3, Broadchurch has very much got its mojo back.
Which hopefully bodes well for Chibnall’s next project.
15 March 2017 at 23:35 #55803You reckon? (I’m home sick, ssh!).
Mum was watching it and couldn’t get her eyes of it.
I was “oh no, not this again….Rory the priest, the woman with the husband who wanders in and out (the couple who’s child was murdered) and then Tennant going: “Millllrrrr”.
I left her to it. But she’s watched it.
I tell you what I really disliked? Man from Mars -or, whatever it’s called with the dude who was the Master in Who?
I found it SO SLOW.
Then, at the last bit (Mum called it a very long coda) Dad said: “I’ll listen to you in a second, but this is the end.”
“The end” consisted of every character saying something sweet and powerful, all overlapped. It was like being hit over the head with a dead fish. Very unimpressed, me.
Mum had said that originally she’d liked it. Anyway, at the end, it said “written by Chibnall” and I thought “yep, thought so.”
However, I’m sure Who will be great (hoping hoping).
Thane
15 March 2017 at 23:37 #55804Mum’s just roasted me. On the internet and sick?
No t allowed! 🙁
Watching Mad Men -LOVE it. WATCH it Mr P, you’d enjoy it. It’s sublime but broadchurch is “merely phenomenal” -Mum said this and I don’t get it. Anyway.
15 March 2017 at 23:45 #55805The AMerican Gods looks terrific. We’ll have Netflix soon -isi-ish. But I don’t think that’s Amazon Prime. I’m doing a subject where you look at all these different television ‘hotspots’. I’m hoping to learn the difference between Stan’ AMazon Prime; etc -making better decisions I guess. But mainly I don’t have time to watch anything on a normal school day. 30 mins max what with H/W; soccer; training and all the rest. Sitting down is rare! 🙂
But I think AG looks terrific.
Thank you.
(yes, Mum, I’m going…..)
15 March 2017 at 23:50 #55806@pedant with season 3, Broadchurch has very much got its mojo back.
Well, that’s a bit of hope, I suppose.
@thane15 “oh no, not this again….Rory the priest, the woman with the husband who wanders in and out (the couple who’s child was murdered) and then Tennant going: “Millllrrrr”.
On the other hand . . . Yep, that sounds just like my own reaction to S1 of BCurch, and the 1st ep of S2, which I watched enough of to know I didn’t like it (even without the dead fish effect). Oy.
@craig I’m more than ready for “American Gods” — loved the book, and this cast looks great! Awful lot of gore in those trailers, though. I wish new series weren’t going so crazy for Splash-and-Splat, but I can’t really blame GOT for showing the way into all that; if not them, somebody else would have broken the (bloody) ice.
“The Leftovers” is due back soon, final series — itching to see it, very nervous about how they’re going to wrap it up.
16 March 2017 at 00:43 #55807@thane15
You are so comprehensively wrong about Life On Mars that you may very well have come up with an entirely new definition of wrong.
But, to be fair, you need to watch the follow-up, Ashes to Ashes, to fully understand your wrongitude.
Sometimes things are meant to be slow. And also: made in the structure and style of the shows of the era. You need to track down The Sweeney.
You get a very small allowance for not being familiar with some of the very English 1970s idiom. But only very small.
In fact, as a general observation, your failure to fully appreciate good crime drama is a big gap in your education. You need to read The Big Sleep, by Raymond Chandler and The Maltese Falcon by Dashiell Hammett. In fact they should be the next books you read. Falcon first, then Big Sleep, so you can see the development of the genre. I expect a report back.
Also looking forward to American Gods. The book is a masterwork.
16 March 2017 at 01:12 #55808If something’s slow, it’s slow -but just to me.
Also, I have read The Maltese Falcon -recently. I loved it. But. I actually preferred the film -this never happens. The book is always better than the film but I didn’t find that this time (or on this occasion).
Also, I just found Life on Mars to be extremely repetitive. No doubt I’ll watch Ashes to Ashes -but I’ll stick by my belief that the endless and tormented ending of the Life on Mars was a “conceit” – I learned that word and idea from you. I really think it’s a conceit -what does it add to the entire series? You ALSO said, once “don’t be in love with your own words” and I think Chibnall was -at that point at the end of the series which turned the whole thing sentimental rather than respectful.
Again, my opinion. And yes, several months ago I wasn’t reading anything. You might be surprised to know I read constantly now. Wanna know what I’m reading in addition to anything to do with school?
1. Lee Child
2. E A Poe
3. The physics of HPE
4. The Knowledge Illusion (that should blow your socks off. Have you read it?)
5. The entire New Testament because Theology is important whether you believe in a god or not
6. Cosmos and the Psyche (read it?)
More to life than detective stories except I’m reading them too. And at 15, that isn’t bad. Is it?
And now, we’re on the wrong thread…..Should be books @pedant
Now, I’m going back to my 1300 word analysis of my volleyball dig where I am reading ACTUAL periodicals.
I have no time. Did I mention that?
🙂 Thane
16 March 2017 at 01:40 #55809@Thanes15
Also, I have read The Maltese Falcon -recently. I loved it. But. I actually preferred the film -this never happens. The book is always better than the film but I didn’t find that this time (or on this occasion).
Then what is the most important difference between the book and the film?
And, no.
was a “conceit”
It’s not a conceit. Watch Ashes to Ashes.
Read The Big Sleep (and then Farewell My Lovely and The Long Goodbye).
Almost everything you read and watch now owes a tremendous debt to two genres that snobs hate.
Should be books
Genre’s cut across media. Ars gratia artis.
>>>>Clicky<<<<
16 March 2017 at 02:12 #55810@pedants (oh sorry, wrong name @pedantic ) 🙂
Then what is the most important difference between the book and the film?
It lacks layers, in my opinion. And that’s concise.
Yes, I know “snobs” may dislike detective stories. But I’m not a snob nor do I “hate them”
In fact I reference Lee Child, Sue Grafton (both write the form in a short story too) and E A Poe.
So, according to you I’m on the right track. See?
Also I reference The Knowledge Illusion. Have you read it? Hmm?
This book claims that people are generally more stupid than they actually realise. Or, to be nicer (there’s a wealth of niceness here, innit?) “people aren’t quite as intelligent as they think.”
And Star Wars was cute. But never a favourite of mine. I have no interest in Jedi mind tricks.
Happy?
Thanestickingupforhimself. (might be my new handle).
16 March 2017 at 02:23 #55811Yes yes yes. The Sweeney. I think I can congratulate myself knowing that I KNOW Sweeney. Oh for heaven’s sake there’s also Hill Street Blues (mum watched that when she was 14) and also The Bill -early series only.
So, yep, there’s also “Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy”; “Callan” ; “House of Cards” and also recently Mad Men.
If you think I like shows which are “fast” or I like seeing Apocalyptic movies, you’re very wrong.
To grasp your wrongitude, fully, you need to realise that a) Leftovers and b) Rectify was my favourite television of all time but continuously reviewed as “slow” -which I disagreed with, there’s difference between “slowness” and unnecessary “repetition” masquerading as layered. (I’m on bloomin’ fire).
It’s 3 am your time, innit?
You are not going to change my mind quite so easily. All this over Broadchurch? Come on! Who’s the cocky git now?
🙂 (at least I use a smiley face -and “clicky” refers to click-bait. I don’t think so).
16 March 2017 at 02:54 #55812Problem -I would not recommend referencing your own work in order to make a point? Or to back up an argument. In the world of academia this isn’t allowed all that often (mum should know). 🙂
However I’m a lowly soccer player (no, I’m not being sarcastic. I like it but will I be a soccer player, who knows? It’s in the hands of the gods).
From Quiz Show (something I watched at age 10):
“Ah, but you are such a philosopher, I would I could be like you.”
And this: (for fun, don’t get peeved) “You are, after all, much better at this than I, so practised, so rehearsed, so well performed as on a stage. We must applaud you.”
Beat that with a stick 😀
All in fun, now, OK. No more pushing buttons. Mind you, I seem to be connected to those buttons in a big way. My problem, I guess.
(phew, that was racy!)
Thane
17 March 2017 at 22:19 #55818@thane15 I’m glad to hear you have such good taste re crime drama (and “The Leftovers”, which had better not let us down next month!). But I loved “Life on Mars”, though it didn’t get as quirky as I’d have hoped, given that it’s a time-travel plus “fish out of water” story. You might like the mystery stories of Reginald Hill, if you don’t already know them. Try “On Beulah Height”, a gorgeous piece, IMO. When you have time, of course!
@pedant Where can I find “Ashes to Ashes”? I didn’t know there was a sequel to “Mars”, but am definitely up for it, if possible. Agree on AG — wonderful piece of work.
18 March 2017 at 01:59 #55820Doesn’t appear to be on Region 1 DVD (either Amazon or the BBC America store), so unless it is on iTunes or one of the streaming services in the US then it’s a region 2 import and a region-hacked player.
18 March 2017 at 02:28 #55821@Thane15
I thought I’d posted a reply last night, but it went into the nether realm. So mk2:
m -I would not recommend referencing your own work in order to make a point?
Why? Look at anyone of any note, in any field, and they cite their work as their body of knowledge builds. And also when they are teaching.
“repetition” masquerading as layered. (I’m on bloomin’ fire).
Alas, the problem with being on fire is that you get burned.
I think your mum has a copy of my story Amoreuse. Get her to give it to you, and then come back and talk about repetition. ‘cos if you don’t know how a story ends, you aren’t qualified to comment on it. Just like, once upon a time, your mum wasn’t qualified to dismiss a show about the blonde chick who kills vampires.
And watch Ashes to Ashes.
It lacks layers, in my opinion. And that’s concise.
Nope. It is much simpler than that and is a straightforward matter of observation (feel that heat!). There is a crucial difference between book and film that probably explains why you are blind to the many layers of the book (the film is one of the most important in US cinema and a true masterpiece, but that does not excuse dodging the question). A clue: The film and book versions of A Clockwork Orange differ in exactly the same way, to much the same effect.
The Knowledge Illusion
It’s not a new concept:
>>>Clicky<<<
And since you chickened out of the last clicky, here it is:
18 March 2017 at 04:00 #55822@pedant Okay, I might just have to wait for Ashes to Ashes to surface someplace accessible to me; thanks! Is there a book as well, or is it strictly TV?
18 March 2017 at 11:30 #55823Not as far as I know. Maybe on Amazon.
18 March 2017 at 17:27 #55825@pedant No book that I could find, and the TV series was apparently supposed to show up on Amazon several years ago, but never did. DVDs are available, but not for US players. Drat. The obstacle course of life.
19 March 2017 at 06:48 #55828Yes, thank you, I read a few of those terrific stories but not Amourese ? Mum won’t let me near that! But they’re terrific and you are very talented. Nor can I watch Clockwork Orange til I’m about 18. In the house, this doesn’t work: “get your mum to.” I’d get a severe wack over the head if I approached an inquiry like that.
I also really like conversations? Not debates or arguments? Didactic behaviour is not really “teaching” though it is has its place. But if you write: “nope; alas; you’re blind to…;” and more “no” words, it’s just a “you’re wrong, I’m right thing” which doesn’t really work for most people. For me, being composed and not erratic works better.
I apologise about The Knowledge Illusion. You couldn’t have read it as Mum received a copy from a mate at Brown a few weeks ago.
It’s a new iteration of the concept; a different exemplar showing non-exemplars and the greys in between.
So, it’s good to read to the end of “the story” (this book) in my opinion at least, if the reader approaches a new sense of the concept:
‘cos if you don’t know how a story ends, you aren’t qualified to comment on it.
A Jedi makes mistakes and some Jedi’s aren’t even the best they can be.
Onwards! (as Mum says)
19 March 2017 at 06:50 #55829But it’s all good, I like you a lot, anyway, and really appreciate you taking the time to show me things.
Thane15
22 March 2017 at 12:52 #55841Charity Auction Night on Friday 21st April
Bid for signed photo of Peter Capaldi, for more info/tickets follow the link https://mydonate.bt.com/donation/start.html?event=410175
28 March 2017 at 04:11 #55889I don’t think I have asked this before. did anyone see “In the Loop?”
Very course, but very funny. It brought tears to my eyes.
Missy
29 March 2017 at 08:38 #55895@missy “In the Loop” made me laugh. Now it kinda makes me want to cry . . . so innocent, compared to what’s going on now! Well, so it seems to me, anyway.
30 March 2017 at 05:21 #559067 April 2017 at 00:17 #56003Right. So. @All, but principally @Thane15 and New Improved Drug Free Puro.
Netflix.
13 Reason Why
Apparently based on a YA novel of the same name.
Watch it. Heartbreaking and arguably important.
A strong cast backed by the most understated use of music means that, when it needs to, it can go to the darkest of dark places without flinching and without mercy.
8 April 2017 at 04:24 #56017@pedant and others
I stress it’s Puro here 🙂 Young one isn’t won over to B’church.
Not wanting a wrangle (*American* word) over Broadchurch I’ll simply say that Tennant is mighty fine. And Andy Buchan as Mark Latimer’s incredible. If this is Chibnall’s best then we’ll be thrice lucky in the successful stewardship of Doctor Who.
Kindest,
Puro (hiding out).
PS : @janetteb Indeed, ‘No-man is an island’. However his treatise on the Use and Evolution of Language is less known and vital to our accepting how language should and must change. Slang has its uses and Americanisation’s are just fine. I think of all the American telly I’ve seen and compare it to even one recent Australian show and I’m embarrassed being an Ozzie. What do we have, exactly? Newton’s Law? Various reality shows?
Doctor Blake approached ‘success’ but ended up, like so much, a tad confused as to its ‘benchmark application.’ 🙂
8 April 2017 at 05:36 #56018@thane13 I certainly accept that language changes and I don’t object to the odd “Americanism” as long as it isn’t only “Americanisms” and at the exclusion of all other influences. It is the difference between enrich and completely overwrite. Australia could have decent television. In the past the ABC especially did make some good mini series. (eg Power without Glory, Ride on Stranger and my favourite, Timeless Land) They had plenty of room for improvement but the potential was there. Why now so dire? In part due to lack of funding but also the feeling that “others will always do it better so why bother”. Cultural hegemony is certainly a factor in the death of (quality) Australian TV production.
This is not just an issue for Australia. Hollywood dominates world film making it increasingly difficult for indigenous film industries to compete. For instance several African directors have made interesting and intelligent films but only film students would be aware of any of them. Back in the nineties several Chinese films caught attention but they were still only playing in selected cinemas to the “art house” audience. To see a non Hollywood or “Britflick” film I would have to go to the city.
Cheers
Janette
8 April 2017 at 07:11 #56019Hey there, Thane back again : -}
I agree. It’s really hard at school at the moment, and I don’t know if you’re children or relatives experience this, but we learn very little in English -hard to believe! I was in some trouble as I forgot my reading book for the measly 15 mins per week of “free reading” and I think Mum’s going to ‘suggest’ something to the teacher. Such as that reading for 15 mins per week in English class may as well not happen.
🙂
I think, for boys education, it’s not the best. I’d prefer her to give me some exercises to do with writing: tricky sentences, mistakes in paragraphs and so on. I read at home where its quiet or, if it’s a whole lesson but 15 mins? It may as well be 2 mins!!
From Thane.
8 April 2017 at 07:24 #56020@thane15 I did it again. Got the numbers wrong. Apologies. Proof reading is not my strong point.
My youngest is in your same year level. (It is year 10 isn’t it?) He hasn’t enjoyed the direction English has taken in the past year or so. There is next to no creative writing which is ironic given that universities now all have creative writing courses, something they did not offer at all when I was at Uni. I don’t think he has “free reading” time as he isn’t taking a book to school. He is reading “Hogfather” at home and taking rather longer than I approve of. (Not locking the computer early enough. He loves reading but when there is a choice between reading or computer the later invariably wins.)
Cheers
Janette
8 April 2017 at 07:54 #56021Hey we’re Brothers From Another Mother. 🙂
I know! It’s like we’re in the same class. NO creative writing. Apparently there’s a short story, in class, under exam conditions and I understand that because of plagiarism. Thing is, I know how the kids cheat. They are so obvious (to me anyway) -they look at phones, write big words up and down their thighs -because who’s going to check that without a harassment suit? HAH! It’s awful.
Apparently we’re doing this in 2 weeks time. I’m panicking already. Mum calls it, like Brian Greene on the ABC does (I’ll go into that below for you), “credentialing” students so it’s like a tick in the box rather than achievement. I slog away, get a B+ when I KNOW it’s an ‘A’ and then get given no feedback! This has to be unethical. It’s like they only want certain students to even study English and all the rest can do “English for Dummies” which is basically learning how to write a cheque etc. How boring.
Free reading could be good but for 15 mins? I think that’s terrible and not having any at all? Maybe worse. My teacher reads the paper while we read!! Oh boy, not good.
I think courses of creative writing at uni would be great. I know Mum didn’t do much of that either. It was more “study literature this way” which also has its place but learning to write, well, that’s an art, to me. Doing this in two weeks is 6 lessons!
In term 3 we do a Shakespeare. Mum will go spare on this for sure. She’s always saying Shakespeare should be ‘spoken’ and declaimed -I might have the wrong word.
*Brain Greene is that American scientist. There’s a really good interview with that weird dude, Pickering on ABCiview under exclusive interviews with Charlie Pickering. Here he speaks about “exams as garbage”. Exactly what I think. I regurgitate facts and forget it 24 hours later. I don’t know any other way. The kids obviously think cheating is hugely helpful which is so sad, legit.
We have to take a HUGE breath to get thru this year and then two more.
Thank you for reading my rant!!
Thane (yeah, I’m basically still 13 anyway as Mum would tell you!!)
PS: on the plus side there is some good television. I’m slowly coming round to Broadchurch after a stern talking to. Also Mum really wants me to read books by Donna Tart. It looks really hard! Maybe there’s a movie first 🙂
8 April 2017 at 08:02 #56022@janetteb But it’s good he’s reading Hogfather -I know, the urge to use the computer is like an addiction. Our bandwidth is so bad and mum is forever putting off getting it fixed which means probably she’s inching me towards reading -which I did today: 56 pages and counting……Maybe I’ll get an iceblock as a reward!
Also not Brain Green <facepalm> -Brian. Not too nerdy but very clever and easy to listen to. Wish he was my science teacher.
I used to have trouble imagining things when I was reading? Mum said that is a skill children have. But I only got it about 2 years ago? I have no idea how this didn’t happen. Mum would tell stories, we’d see things but somehow I really couldn’t picture a ‘thing’ in my head. Apparently this is why students don’t want to read -the words don’t translate into images. Fortunately that’s happening now for me. The right way round! How does anyone even teach that type of thing? I guess it starts in Kindy.
Thank you. From, Thane.
9 April 2017 at 04:46 #56032@thane15 I have never really thought about it, perhaps because I grew up reading. We did not have television until I was about eleven but if anything that aided the ability to imagine rather than diminished it as it opened up my knowledge of the world. Likewise I don’t think computer games harm the imagination. IT is just that they are so addictive. My youngest grew up with less restrictions on computer time than his older brothers but reads more. I don’t know that young people read less than they did. When I was growing up other children watched TV or played outside. They didn’t read. My friend and I were the “odd kids” who preferred going to the library to playing sport. Being sent to the library was considered a punishment then. I was frequently told off for reading too much or reading the wrong kind of books. So to sum up, the older generation will always worry about the choices being made by the younger generation simply because they differ to what they did. “ie playing computer games must be bad because we didn’t do it.
And now to help R.3 with his homework. In class essay tomorrow, science test on Tuesday while R.2 has fallen behind in the last week with his work so we need to keep two noses firmly pressed to respective grindstones this afternoon. Oh for next week, holidays, hot cross buns and Dr Who..
cheers
janette
9 April 2017 at 04:54 #56033@thane15: Doctor Blake was awful. I cannot put my finger what it was – slow and boring comes to mind. Miss Fisher Mysteries on the other hand, were great fun. The chemistry between Jack and Phryne was electric.
Janette: One of our grandchildren has begun studying Ancient China in History. what the devil china has to so with Australian history is a mystery. She does read books however. Hogfather is fun, the film is even better.
Missy
9 April 2017 at 06:49 #56037what the devil china has to so with Australian history is a mystery.
Oh LOL. I know!
Oh hang on, you’re serious ? 🙂 No, surely not Miss Missy. I know I’m only 15 but China has EVERYTHING to do with Oz history -Goldfields, the immigration period of the 1950s and the White Australia Policy.
So, I realise you must have been joking!
Good one! There’s a really good Australian doco on Australia during the 1950s and 60s and the interactions with the Chinese.
Also, Ancient History isn’t just about Western History -the usual Greek, Roman etc but also, as Mum wrote in a textbook, the Ancient Chinese, Japanese and South American areas (and eras) have proven how far we’ve come and how, in many cases, we owe a lot of our current knowledge to the early Chinese. For example: the loo was an Ancient Chinese invention as were some medical advances. I’m really glad that teaching equips students with knowledge of that period -it became very Westernised for many hundreds of years – to our great shame.
History is one thing, done well.
But you know that -oops! 🙂
From Thane
9 April 2017 at 08:24 #56038@thane15 and @missy
I grew up in Ballarat which at one time had a high population of Chinese miners. Every time there was a celebration the Chinese would provide dragon dancers and fireworks. Despite the claims that there was no intermarriage I knew several people who were descended from the Chinese including at one time the Mayor. There are now many more people living in Australia with Chinese cultural roots as a result of post war immigration so yes Chinese history is “relevant” to Australians and as Thane has pointed out, all history is relevant because it is about the world we live in.
cheers
Janette
9 April 2017 at 13:48 #56044Also, this:
interesting that LGBT characters being present in a fictional universe is considered political, but being strangely absent isn't.
— Snow Wight (@crimefish) April 7, 2017
10 April 2017 at 10:01 #56058@thane15:
No, not joking and I think you know that. *winks* It is her mother, our daughter-in-law, who was complaining about it, and she’s 100% country Aussie.
Of course the Chinese played a role in Australia’s history, but not an Ancient role. This country’s history is very recent, only just over 300 years of white settlement – to me that’s recent anyway, coming from the Northern Hemisphere. You could also say the same about the Afghans, but at my granddaughter’s school at least, they teach nothing about them. History of all countries should be touched upon, but your immediate history, your ancestors should come first.
Missy
10 April 2017 at 13:31 #56062for starters, no-one is 100 % Aussie. You said it yourself .
to me that’s recent anyway, coming from the Northern Hemisphere
In fact, the notion of nationalism upsets me. I live here. But it’s not ‘my’ country’ and as for schooling, 99% of expert teachers would disagree with you about how the ancient Chinese have affected and effected everything, right down the line, from Eastern Civilisation to our own Western Civilisation.
Immediate ancestry? That sounds a lot like the incorrect interpretation of a quote about “building our own fences” as well as dealing with “our own problems first”. If we only know, first, our own ancestry, we can be blinded by this and not proceed to a knowledge of other, important civilisations.
This has worked (or not worked) for you, in one way, and not I’m not being disrespectful, when I say this, but had you learned, or read about how the Ancient Chinese Civilisation helped ‘create us’ then you might have not said:
“what the devil China has to do with Australian history is a mystery.”
If you’d perhaps benefitted from that as a younger student you might know. The education system some years ago left out huge chunks of important stuff. I guess what I’m hinting at is that these areas of History are increasingly important for kids to know. And the curriculum in that respect is changing positively, in my opinion so I think, soon, your grandchild will be able to answer your question. Which is good! 🙂
And I really thought you were joking. Apologies: possibly because I haven’t come across that type of opinion before?
But that’s OK. We’re all learning, all the time.
Thank you,
Thane
10 April 2017 at 13:33 #56063heck, I thought I was on the first thread we started this on. Apologies mods and lurkers!!
14 April 2017 at 06:09 #56145@thane15 for starters, no-one is 100 % Aussie. You said it yourself
Now who’s being picky? She is 100% COUNTRY Australian – meaning she wasn’t born in the city.
I must be a bit thick, because I still cannot see what ANCIENT China has to do with this country. Recent Chinese influence, I take your point. However, you are an Australian (not 100% of course *grins*) and I am not. We learned about the commonwealth of course and how they were formed, but most was about British history over the last 1,000 years and how we branched out.
No apologies required by the way.
Missy
14 April 2017 at 07:57 #56147Puro, the mother here. Haha! Don’t be so *hard* on yourself
I must be a bit thick, because I still cannot see what ANCIENT China has to do with this country.
I think what Thane was getting at was that all History -that’s around us -affects and effects us all. I was proud he could use the words ‘effect’ and ‘affect’ correctly.
We are part of the Pacific area, for better or worse, and Ancient history (whether Greco-Roman; South American) has influenced us in many ways. Check out Wikipedia (though I be may be joking): there are a couple of excellent books I could suggest providing hours of interest in answer to your very fair question:
<i>what the devil China has to do with Australian history is a mystery ?</i>
🙂
You might be interested to know that Mad Men Season 2 has a consulting producer – Marti Noxon the Mistress of Pain! @jimthefish introduced us to that particular term. I shan’t claim that Mad Men is a show of Buffy’s extraordinary quality -unlike tWW the characters are replaceable at times, which, perhaps could be its (the show’s) point but I’ve understood more clearly from a number of members including @mudlark, @janetteb ; @pedant and @ichabod that dialogue should deliver a genuine personality or it faces looming inauthenticity. @pedant reminded us that ‘conversation’ needs to be ‘real’ ; on point and precise with some dialogue delivered via “a snort” or “a shrug.” -particularly as he’s writing about two teenagers. @ichabod I’m training Thane up in the concept of the ‘venturesome girl’ as opposed to ‘adventuresome’ – two quite subtle differences. It’s a good trope but it needs to work.
Thank you for that.
I find our knowledge of history must allow for the complexity of the social history as well as the larger ‘inventions’ which had a knock on affect on our particular continent -and on any Western continent, for that matter.
Kindest,
Puro and Thane
14 April 2017 at 08:19 #56150@thane15 and Puro: You’re welcome, always. And venturesome is better — it dispenses with the whiff of aggressive action that “adventuresome” has, I think.
14 April 2017 at 15:48 #56153@Thane15
Marti Noxon the Mistress of Pain! @jimthefish introduced us to that particular term
No he bloody didn’t! (He planned to but some idiot spoilsport confound his plan).
Mad Men is on Netflix, so will get a watch
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