Into the Dalek

Home Forums Episodes The Twelfth Doctor Into the Dalek

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    Craig @craig


    A Dalek fleet surrounds a lone rebel ship. Only the Doctor can help and he needs Clara by his side. In a story that starts by taking cues from ‘Dalek’, it becomes ‘Doctor Who meets Fantastic Voyage’ as the Doctor and Clara are miniaturised and enter inside a ‘good’ Dalek to repair it.

    Blinded by his old hatred, the Doctor needs Clara to make him see sense as they head for the heart of the Dalek. What he finds there forces him to examine his conscience and question whether he is truly a good man.


    Well that was cerebral.

    In more ways than one (all of them good)

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    I’m surprised by who saved the good soldier!


    Was John Frobisher a good man?


    It seems Clara loves a squaddie…

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    I really enjoyed that. Bits of it definitely tapped into my ‘creepy’ brain-centres. 😉

    And a lot to think about as well. They seem to have avoided having a permanently good Dalek, but have left open the question of whether Daleks could indeed, become good. Especially with the idea that ‘The Doctor’ was created by that 50 year old story, ‘The Mutants’. And that chilling final judgement (which I think we also heard in Asylum of the Daleks):

    You would make a good Dalek

    Which can be read on so many levels…

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    ‘Little splosh? Lovely.’


    Both ‘saved’ screams are similar. The 1st one the Dr saves Journey with a TARDIS of course…

    phoebe-phire @phoebe-phire

    @bluesqueakpip There is a story, I think its in the 50 Anniversary collection of 11 stories one for each Doctor, where there is an alternate timeline with only good Daleks, it was caused by the TARDIS trying to escape from a Supernova or something.  The Doctor ‘corrected’ this and reverted to our known timeline.

    phoebe-phire @phoebe-phire

    @Bluesqueakkpip that line <b>You would make a good Dalek</b>  was also used in the episode ‘Dalek’ with the 9th Doctor.

    mightbesherlock @mightbesherlock

    The face, the expressions, the vocal intonation – am I seeing a rebirth of the “real” Timelord? Just don’t submerge all that talent and imaginative acting with sloppy script writing…. Come on BBC!

    No, no, no, no, no!
    Re-hash of old ideas – damaged dalek (9th doctor)
    Change the dalek race for good (4th doctor)
    Have nice daleks or change their thoughts (5th doctor)
    Daleks feeding on organic matter (10th doctor)
    and on and on an on….
    What’s the matter with Moffat?
    Doesn’t he have an original idea in his head?



    @mightbesherlock (but probably not)

    This is serial storytelling in which a key – but actually rather limited – antagonist can’t be ejected. Revisiting is rather difficult to avoid (it has proved even harder for the Cybermen, ‘cos they don’t even get to squawk “Exterminate!”).

    This was an interesting riff which is clearly not done with just yet.

    Moffat has more original ideas in his head than anybody who can list things by rote.

    TheatreGuy @theatreguy

    Great episode – one of the strongest Dalek episodes since Ecclestone. Zawe Ashton was wonderful as Blue, I’m wondering if Danny Pink was a version of the dead brother – placed in Clara’s way

    ScaryB @scaryb

    @theatreguy Danny Pink as version of dead brother – interesting idea.  I like it!

    Pink/Blue names – notice that they’ve reversed the usual gender connotations.

    Another thought about Danny – wondering if he’ll follow Clara one day – into the junkyard perhaps – to find out what she’s up to with the old guy and the blue box.  Clara’s reminding me more and more of Barbara as she gets more teacher-ish.

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    I liked, for the things I liked and the things I disliked. The doctor feeding the doomed man something so that he could use his death, I hated that. So did the doctor, and what else could he do? The loss of triumph when the dalek went off fueld by the doctors hate. We saw the difference between this and the last doctor. Essentially, they’d feel the same conflict and sadness, but this felt like twelve sadness.

    Oh, and soldiers. The doctor rejects, Clara doesn’t.

    Missy ‘saves’ another? I’m liking my CAL/papal mainframe/missy idea more.

    The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman

    Long and short of it, It’s Invisible Enemy with Daleks

    ScaryB @scaryb

    A much darker Doctor altogether.

    One who realises that he can’t save everyone. Journey’s brother (unless he was accidentally sideswiped into Coal Hill School!)

    ‘He was dead already, I was saving us’

    I can’t imagine Smith or Tennant saying that line.

    This Doctor actively encourages some people to sacrifice themselves for the greater good.  And these people end up in Missy’s “heaven”.  Hmmm. She still doesn’t strike me as being the benevolent sort.

    This Doctor is possibly more realistic, but he’s also the one who knows he didn’t kill all the children on Gallifrey, that he found another way.

    But his self-doubt continues. “With great power comes great responsibility”.  Good intentions are not enough. He is shocked when he realises the Dalek has recognised the familiar in his hatred of them to reboot its understanding of the universe. Would the Doctor really “make a good Dalek”?

    (@pedant Great to see you back and in excellent form 🙂 )

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Gretchen Alison Carlisle sacrificed herself.

    Did Humpty sacrifice himself?

    TheatreGuy @theatreguy

    Oh and that Clara slap was felt all the way through time and space – another belter from Jenna

    Anonymous @

    More cogent thoughts later after a rewatch but @scaryb, yes a much darker Doctor and I too couldn’t have imagined either Tennant or Smith, or even Eccleston, saying that line. I was impressed at just how quickly Capaldi has established his Doctor as something different, something unique.

    Although, perhaps not that unique, because that scene kind of made me think of the version of the Seventh Doctor we saw in the Virgin adventures.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Carlisle again

    What is it with Cumbria? Is it just some running Moffat gag to give us something to obsess over?

    [edit: I note that the River Eden runs through Cumbria]

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Sorry @scaryb

    That looks like I was questioning you but I hadn’t read your post!


    So does Missy only take martyrs or just Doctor-made-martyrs?

    Maybe we can clarify next week…

    ScaryB @scaryb


    Did Humpty sacrifice himself?

    It’s looking like it, I think. I don’t believe the Doctor pushed him, he’s not changed that much. But like Gretchen, Humpty may have been persuaded to follow his own inclination. Both sacrifices save others.

    @miapatrick I agree re a CAL/papal mainframe/matrix type thingy. But how do  they get there? HFM being a robot (mostly) might have been connected to a mainframe. but Gretchen appeared to be human.  (Is Missy River in disguise and excelling herself in trying to get the Doctor’s attention, LOL)

    Variation on the Genesis question – if you could “treat” the Daleks’ malevolence/”fault” by administering certain drugs/radiation dose… have you the right to do so?  The Doctor says the change in outlook in the Dalek was only down to a realignment of its synapses caused by the radiation leak… but all thoughts and personality are down to the synapses.  The Daleks are already mutations, their malevolence – as stated in this episode – reinforced by programming.  Why did this Dalek seek help – was it because it knew it shouldn’t be feeling “nice”?

    wolfweed @wolfweed
    Oblique @oblique

    In reply to mightbesherlock’s post: Continuity reference points are there for fans. They have become more prominent in recent years, I think. The writers have to tick quite a lot of boxes when writing scripts, and its worth considering the demographic they have to pen for. Doctor Who is peak-time viewing on a Saturday evening: – challenging; aired as a family show, so it has to appeal to mum and dad as well as the kids and their teenage siblings. This is why  in ‘Deep Breath’ we have a Tyrannosaur; Clara’s angst on coming face to face with Peter, innuendo, as ever, and the titivation of a lesbian kiss. Its about keeping everybody happy, its all about ratings! ratings! ratings! And, for the serial connoisseur there are continuity reference points. Good luck. Doctor Who doesn’t require new ideas when old stories can be drawn on and re-worked, and lets face it, we’ve been round the block several times already since the re-launch, oh so many years ago. The scripting may be formulaic and predicable, but that’s exactly what the average viewer wants: more of the same. I’d read recently, one of executives quoted as saying they didn’t feel the  show held no surprises, that show was being taken in a new direction.  Could that be the light-entertainment theme tune?


    Retcon alert: “He might be a duplicate” (as opposed to a conversion).

    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Yes – It’s ‘The Chase’ all over again*. Expect Craig Ferguson to play the Dr’s robot duplicate at some point…

    (*Or maybe it’s Resurrection of the Daleks…)

    ScaryB @scaryb

    Random thoughts –

    Why couldn’t/didn’t the TARDIS save Journey’s brother?

    Missed ref in mightbesherlock’s list above – The pilot that McGann’s Dr tries to pluck from the jaws of death in Night of the Doctor

    @wolfweed Thanks for the link (and no prob re overlapping posts – different timestreams & all that!)

    Is Courtney a soul-sister of Melody Pond?

    Theme tune – I prefer this to all the post 2005 versions, though it does seem a wee bit muted. But then, I reckon the original can’t be beaten for way out weirdness, so anything else is going to sound second best. This one is getting closer though.

    @bluesqueakpip Carlisle? I missed that. 🙁 Where?

    Anonymous @

    Hey there, newbie writing.Overall, I really liked the episode. I don’t know if anybody noticed, but when Danny Pink was in the school, he talked to the ginger lady. She somehow talked a bit strange to me, (reminded me of a Spoonhead). Or maybe I’m wrong, haha 😀



    Why couldn’t/didn’t the TARDIS save Journey’s brother?

    1. Because he was already dead? (The obvious)

    2. Because Clara is really the Tardis and is in urgent need of a shag? (The bonkers)

    3. Because Stephen Moffat is a sexist pig and only women need saving? (the Twitter hypothesis)

    4. Because Missy is Up To Something? (The convoluted)

    33/1 Bar these.

    ScaryB @scaryb

    Oh, and I love the xray effect of Dalek blasters on the victims, I’ve missed that


    wolfweed @wolfweed

    The anti-bodies looked a bit like (Dalek) ‘eyes’ and Clara’s shirt was covered with eyes…

    chickenelly @chickenelly

    Hmmm @wolfweed…. Humpty last week collected some eyes, and the Doctor seemed to be having trouble with his eyes (ie not being able to see properly) – a theme continuing on this week if you take into account his comments to Clara?

    A theme like the eggs and lights from last series perchance?

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @scaryb – it’s at 0:33 – Gretchen gives her full name as Gretchen Alison Carlisle.

    Quite a few people over at the Graun speculating that Journey’s dead brother is Danny Pink. They certainly did blur and shadow his face as much as they could, but if it’s not Samuel Anderson playing the brother, they’ve picked an actor who looks very like him.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @pedant – I thought the ‘he might be a duplicate’ was a reference to the Dalekised humans from Series 7.

    But, having mulled it over, I think it’s another hint in the direction of ‘I’ve seen this face before.’ If Kai Blue (Journey’s brother) does turn out to be a physical duplicate of Danny Pink, it might be part of that storyline.

    Alternatively, Danny Pink is also a Claricle. A Dannicle? A Pinkicle?

    [Coat. Will get.] 😀

    cpgolfer @cpgolfer

    Not sure about this regeneration he’s so serious,stern, and judgmental  to reject blue just because she chose to server, I really don’t like the bias the show’s writers have against the military.  Blue did prove  capable of thinking beyond being a good soldier or she would have blown them all up when ordered to. I’m beginning to miss the madman with a box because he and the 10th doctor would have given her a chance to lay down her weapons if she wanted to join them in the tardis. I truly hope the writers give this doctor the chance to fix that mistake and loosen up a bit

    Serahni @serahni

    Well, I just watched it.  Going to need to see it a couple more times to absorb details but my initial reaction was that I enjoyed it.  Capaldi is really impressing me, this Doctor is just a bit terrifying and unpredictable and that makes me feel reborn again as a viewer because, even though he’s always been a little prone to eccentricity and one step ahead of us all, this time around he seems like he’s on an entirely different page.  A good Dalek indeed.

    And yet, what a play on words that is.  Did it mean he would make a good Dalek in the traditional sense, where ‘good’ means ‘proficient’, or that he would be a GOOD Dalek, moral and able to go against his programming to make the right choices?  The ambiguity of the meaning of ‘good’ in that parting suckerpunch is open for debate, I think.

    Clara’s slap is currently my favourite highlight.  You go, girl!  No good Daleks indeed; how deeply personal that is to you even if you don’t realise it, Oswin.



     I thought the ‘he might be a duplicate’ was a reference to the Dalekised humans from Series 7.

    Oh, absolutely – but they were described as conversions before, not duplicates. (It may be nothing, just something that didn’t get picked up in the edit, but duplicates + Cyborgs (or rather orgcybs) made of spare parts + a possibly virtual heaven brings Moff’s fascination with duality, reality and identity to the fore again.)


     I really don’t like the bias the show’s writers have against the military.

    It is an error to confuse writers with characters – this Doctor was a soldier in the longest and most destructive war in the history of the universe – a war the compromised his very sense of self and left him traumatised for centuries – and has earned the right to hold whatever views he likes about war and warriors.

    Silverman @silverman

    Only two episodes in and I think Capaldi’s Doctor is – to borrow 9’s word-of-choice ‘fantastic’. I know we haven’t seen much of him – and I have nothing against Matt Smith’s portrayal – but I thought the whole episode was thoroughly entertaining from start to finish. I like this new, grumpier, colder Doctor – as many have said I’m not used to the Doctor saying things like “He was dead already, I was saving us”, although this didn’t jar with me for some reason – possibly because he’s not being cruel, just coldly pragmatic.

    I’m also liking the puns and the withering put-downs. It’s totally different from the recent incarnations, yet somehow still ‘The Doctor’ (I’m saying that he DIDN’T push Humpty out of the ship last week btw…). In fact the attitude reminded me of some of 9’s characteristics – specifically when Rose was objecting to him using dead peoples’ bodies as hosts for the Gelf:

    ROSE: It’s just wrong. Those bodies were living people. We should respect them even in death.
    DOCTOR: Do you carry a donor card?
    ROSE: That’s different. That’s
    DOCTOR: It is different, yeah. It’s a different morality. Get used to it or go home

    Has this regeneration gone wrong though? Is he partially suffering from amnesia? I was under the impression that when the Doctor regenerated that he knew who he was, and could remember everything, he just looked and sounded different and had a completely different personality, but essentially he knew who he was. I remember in ‘The Christmas Invasion’ 10 saying he didn’t know what kind of man he was, in terms of personality, as he was still working it out, but he was completely at home as the Doctor from minute one and obviously considered himself the same person in terms of memories and past deeds.

    Maybe it’s all to be explained…

    Doing an ‘Inner Space’ with the Dalek was a neat idea, and it worked really well – nice direction, and good to see Michael Smiley and Zawe Ashton. I did feel gutted for Blue though – after all 10 hated the military but was persuaded by Donna to let Jenny go with them – with Capaldi’s Doctor it was so final, and what a smackdown! In some ways that’s the cruelest thing he’s done so far – normally he’d offer someone who wants to change a chance to travel with him and do just that.

    @scaryb – nice note about the names and swapping the genders around – I hadn’t even noticed!

    @pedant @oblique @mightbesherlock

    Originality is tough thing to achieve as we are all  consciously and subconsciously influence by ideas in other media. I always think it must be so tough, maybe nigh-on impossible to put forward an idea that’s *completely* original. Obviously there are no real limits writing something like Doctor Who, but ideas are bound to be influenced by something before.

    As it happens I thought this was a pretty unique episode, and @pedant and @oblique make really good points about the audience this show has to cater for and the different approaches it employs to do this. Also I think they’ve attempted to do different things with the Dalek storylines recently, and they’re all interesting. My favourites would still be ‘Dalek’ because it showed a Dalek changing and having a different emotion to hate, and Rose helping the Doctor change, and ‘Doomsday’ as we got to see how terrifying fully powered Daleks were, and also them kicking the ass of the Cybermen. However, recent Dalek episodes have been high-points and thoroughly entertaining.

    (Sorry to those who found this all a bit ‘TL;DR’ – I apologise!)

    Silverman @silverman

    @pedant @bluesqueakpip – all this talk of duplicates and replicants concerning Danny Pink is interesting. It would be truly disturbing if they fell for each other, and then one of those Dalek-conversion eye-stalks appears… *shudders*

    On another note: as that Dalek exterminated all the Daleks on that ship, but was then going to join the other Daleks was he not just going to wipe them all out? That seemed to be the logical outcome…

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Oh, by the way, has everyone noticed that the rebel ship was the Aristotle?

    Marcus Aurelius last week and in the 50th, now Aristotle. Both, of course, discuss the nature of a ‘good man’.

    Anonymous @

    @mightbesherlock so having viewed a few bits and pieces I’d have to agree with @pedant about the issues you have the ideas about the Daleks. I mean “come on” (to use your words) the Daleks are not a new enemy, the same methods used to destroy them must be employed and as a repetitive, rather OCD ‘race’ they’re going to try the same techniques to deploy themselves as ‘gods of the universe’.

    There will always be a ‘damaged dalek’; the idea of changing their thoughts  or changing their race permanently has been tried with other ‘monsters’ –because it makes sense and deserves another try (it’s the Doctor’s way). That they feed on organic matter has been around since the Thals -right from the beginning. At least it was one hypothesis at that point.

    Did you enjoy the rest of the episode. What did you like about it?

    Kindest, purofilion

    Anonymous @

    @oblique I like your post and the argument you put forward. But I would have to disagree with the ‘scripts are formulaic and predictable’. Really?  I think they’re quite the opposite. The Doctor is elfin, dissolute, hard, sometimes unforgiving and so very different to Number 11 (Smith). I think that the last episode was simple and fairly linear but not predictable at all. In  fairness, the people on this Forum are average (Ok, “speak for yourself” etc) but we don’t expect the “same old same old”.

    As for “not requiring new ideas”, the entire last season was based on new ideas -there wasn’t anything in it to suggest or imply something old -other than the GI. The concept of Christmas, Trenzalore, ‘the Question that must never be answered’, the tesselecta, the Impossible Girl. I could go on!

    So no, these are all brand spanking new ideas. As for “ratings, ratings, ratings”,  I believe that’s a cynical view. I think if you produce an excellent show that’s new, humorous, beautifully filmed, with sparkling characterisations, the ratings will take care of themselves. And that’s what’s happened.

    Think of the Show’s history. The ‘little Show that could’: now it’s all over the world, interacts with viewers on-line, has a huge commercial following (as well as the …er..nerdy followers) and fan creativity has really sparked with this series, unlike any other, except for perhaps Star Wars (and that’s because of Lego!).

    Kindest, purofilion

    Anonymous @

    Many more laughs reading through these posts so far than were in the episode (@pedant), but I’m not complaining at all. It was great!!!

     I almost had to make sure I was watching the right show. I don’t think I blinked for 30 minutes once the Doctor and company entered the Dalek. 😯

     The slap was made even funnier contrasted to the intensity of the rest. It’s even better, to think Clara did it because she felt personally offended (@serahni 🙂 ). That might also be a good clue for a bonkers theory if she is.

     I’m with you @purofilion, I don’t think it is predictable at all. For those that think so, who is Missy? I threw up my hands in surrender when she collected another, whatever they are. The lone Dalek story has been done before, but never from the point of view from inside the Dalek (yes, Claricle, but that was still from the Doctors point of view when we found out).

    I need to watch it again, but I’m not expecting to make any sense of where the story is going or who Missy is or how she is doing it (@scaryb). Fantastic is right (@silverman).

    Anonymous @


    Pink/Blue names – notice that they’ve reversed the usual gender connotations.

    Or what we think of as ‘usual’. The notion of pink for girls and blue for boys is a relatively new concept.

    Up to and including the Victorian era, pink was considered a boys colour (red for men) and light blue for girls (dark or Royal blue for a woman).

    I learned that from watching QI 🙂

    Anonymous @

    @barnable -exactly. Which is why in joy, excitement and confusion, I posted The Who on the Music thread: kinda works. We like to play at deducing don’t we? and maybe we’re all just playing at ‘air’, in the end.

    LordLord @lordlord

    Is The Doctor “A Good Man”? Are some better than others?

    Remember when “Rusty” said: “I am not a good Dalek […] You are a good Dalek”

    I believe that Rusty was saying to the doctor: “You may kill millions of Daleks and other malevolent creatures, but at least you do it after showing mercy first, and only to protect others.”

    Despite not carrying a weapon, The Doctor, all of them, have killed. And a few times he had killed without mercy, and sometimes he had killed for revenge as well for the safety of others (or worse, he left them alive, i.e. “The Family of Blood”). But overall The Doctors tries their hardest to be as good as they can be. Being very old, they can only deal with so much bull**** before they snap sometimes.

    But this Doctor does seem more stern than past ones. I mean he still jokes, but he’s serious about it at the same time. Having a more brood and pensive mind this time around, its understandable that now he’s doubting and thinking about his past decisions/mistakes.

    The Doctor is like a funny Batman, looking for justice where its needed, but sometimes losing his way. Nevertheless he gets back on the right path and tries to redeem himself.

    *Sigh* If only my essays I turn into school were that good.

    What are your opinions on the new question, not “Doctor Who?”, but “Am I a Good Man?”

    geoffers @geoffers

    @TimeCahoot – greetings, and welcome!

    i thought that woman was rather rude, and i am hoping that there are few like her in the actual british education system!

    also, the lady in the window in that scene, with the “crazy” looking hair, wasn’t she one of the schoolchildren in clara’s dream sequence in “deep breath?” the one who challenged clara to expel everyone?


    Anonymous @

    @lordlord nice post did you mean ‘brooding’? (‘and pensive minds’). Interesting that you referred to the Doctor as ‘they/their’. I tend to think that of course he’s made mistakes -with companions he tends to ‘perform’ better. The companions humanise him – re Donna and Amy. The Faces of the Doctor thread informs us about whether the Doctor is a good man.

    But “A good Man Goes to War” sums it up as did The End of Time when Wilf gave him his gun, and shaking it in his hand, begged the Doctor to NOT: “put the people down there, including Donna before the Master: don’t you do it, sir, don’t you do it.” He still wouldn’t take that gun!

    Even UNIT recognised that he was a good man -confused and alien, but good -most of the time. As humans, we’re good, 50% of the time, maybe more. Should we expect more of the Doctor? I think Clara, Aurelius, Aristotle and Socrates would have thought we should.

    But I like a complicated man -not necessarily one who’s good all the time -but that’s me; attracted to the ‘bad guy’ (LOL). 🙂




    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @cpgolfer – as a few other people have pointed out, the bias against the military comes from The Doctor, not the writers.

    I don’t know if they’re going to emphasise it in other episodes, but this Doctor behaves like an ex-soldier in a few places in Into the Dalek. And yet, he’s being specifically employed as a Doctor. But he priorities ‘mission over personnel’ when he throws the squaddie the tracer. Solid military thinking – if saving your soldier will imperil the mission, you don’t do it. You leave them to die. But that’s not what a Doctor would do – a Doctor would isolate the patient and then try to save them.

    Equally, the ‘he’s on top if you’d like to say a few words’ is very much squaddie humour. Death in battle tends to be on the messy side and the British Army has a lot of black humour about it.

    In many ways Journey is playing the young, idealistic officer and the Doctor the old sweat. I suspect the reason he doesn’t take her with him is that she makes him fall back into that role. He doesn’t need her (or any former soldier), he needs Clara. As he implies a few times in the episode, Clara’s there to do a job. She’s not ‘the assistant’. She’s there to remind him to care.

    Anonymous @

    @geoffers  you’re right the student at the window ‘saying I wish’ is the one Clara remembered saying to her: “Go on then do it” (ie: carry out the threat; which then meant Clara survived Humpty). I presume the wild hair student (WHS) is positioned as the ‘arsy one’. I have about 30 of them. 🙂

    Happy Days.  Kindest, puro.

    Anonymous @

    @fatmaninabox I did not know that about our relatively new colour positioning ‘system’. I love QI. At the moment I’m watching his friend, Hugh Laurie.

    geoffers @geoffers

    i am wondering if anyone else got the obvious nods to ‘star trek: the next generation’ (episode “I, Borg”), where the enterprise captures a member of the borg (“resistance is futile!”), and he becomes semi-independent (even choosing a name for himself, “hugh”), and strikes up a friendship with geordi la forge. at the end, captain picard chooses to let him return to the collective, with hopes that his new-found individuality will weaken the hive mentality of the borg…

    [in looking up this info on wikipedia, the article states that “resistance is futile!” is a proclamation from BG Who by none other than the master, in “The Deadly Assassin,” way back in 1976! that’s some knowledge dropped on me, right there! lol]

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