On The Sofa (7)

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    spacedmunkee @spacedmunkee

    Howdy all,

    It’s Friday night and it’s beer o’clock so just jumped in to share a thought I had. I wasn’t sure which forum was most appropriate for this so I’ll dump it here.

    I re-watched TMA the other day and something about the Doctor’s statements that he is A doctor, plus the continual serpent imagery throughout the series set off a lightbulb moment where I pictured the image of a snake coiled around a staff. There are 2 symbols of serpents wrapped around a staff, one with and one without wings, that are commonly used in the medical industry. I started looking around and found the following link which seemed to provide a decent comparison of both symbols. It’s interesting that both mythologies mentioned feed into this series’ arcs and themes in one way or another.


    I’m unaccustomed to having an independent thoughts such as these so I’m feeling pretty chuffed with myself. But in typing this, there is a very strong chance this has already been discussed and debated ad nauseum here, in which case I’ll slink back into my corner and drink my beer quietly.

    lisa @lisa


    TBH I am so ready to get some answers! I think we all know that her story will deeply
    effect next season and probably have as part of the story arc the Doctor’s recovery over her.

    It’ll be weird but also I feel like it’s time for a new and fresh direction change IMHO.

    Kharis @kharis

    Along the Tarot theory.  We have not seen the ‘Star’ yet, which could mean Clara’s ending has a positive side.  The Star traditionally proceeds Judgement and World cards, and follows the Tower.  Unless tomorrow is the Tower, and if that is true, it’s going to be a devastating episode.


    Kharis @kharis

    @spacedmunkee Dang!  Just looked up your link!  Good one!  Like The Great Intelligence and Clara wrapping around his timeline intersecting and the Raven casting it’s shadow and protecting at the same time.

    @lisa Agree, just not ready for another Amy and Rory or Rose moment.  Too sad.

    todeledo @todeledo

    Do you any Christmas doctor who songs?



    This was written by Murray Gold specifically foe Voyage of the Damned

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    This Murray Gold song was used several times, but its Christmas connection is that it was played at Donna’s Christmas Wedding reception.

    todeledo @todeledo

    Thank you for the music 😉

    My music teacher asked us to chose a song for school end 🙂

    SirClockFace @sirclockface

    So the big question…Who do we think is going to be the next companion?


    On Facebook yesterday the Doctor Who page threw out a “What’s your Favourite Cap Doc moment” thread. You would be amazed at how popular the guitar-riff-on-a-tank scene is.


    It would not especially surprise me (if filming schedules can be sorted) to see Ashildr along for a longer ride, desperate to do penance.

    Frobisher @frobisher

    @sirclockface @pedant

    It would not especially surprise me (if filming schedules can be sorted) to see Ashildr along for a longer ride, desperate to do penance.

    I hope not. I am not overly keen on the character or the actress. 🙁

    River Song, perhaps? It would be interesting to see the dynamic of CapDoc travelling for an extended period with an older companion who is more his equal.

    lisa @lisa
    SirClockFace @sirclockface

    @pedant The guitar riff on the tank is simply one of the greatest scenes in any theatrical performance ever including the ‘You asked for an axe fight’ at the end!



    Oh, the scene was a blinder, but from the sniffiness in some quarters (esp the Guardian thread) you would think he’d come on naked.

    Also, I think you may have exaggerated *just* a tad.

    ichabod @ichabod

    A bit about Moffat from Moffat; how can so many people hate this guy?  I just don’t get it.



    Mersey @mersey


    Thank you for sharing that. I don’t understand it either. I don’t agree with every change he introduced especially from series 6 but he is the author of the most brilliant episodes in Who modern era and for me series 5 beats every RTD series (I love RTD episodes but none of his series had so incredible arcs [maybe except Bad Wolf] and internal coherence as series 5).

    ichabod @ichabod

    @mersey  You’re very welcome!   How could I have resisted?  He speaks so well for himself.

    ichabod @ichabod

    @mersey  Sounds as if I need to entertain myself this coming dead season with a re-watch of Series 5!

    Here’s a thing: I just can’t help myself.


    I hope the link works — it’s worth it.

    Mersey @mersey


    … or just use the bracelet 🙂

    paulb @paulb

    Has the Doctor ever visited Australia besides The Enemy of the World?

    Anonymous @

    Well having just read Son’s discussion about Dylan in the pub and I can surely say I don’t know what song he’s talking about…or….is it The sad lady of the Lowlands…..? There’s a fence in that lyric I think. He can google, dang it!

    I thought I’d muse (off the drip for awhile, not that you could tell, as I ramble anyway) but I read some of the reviews -for want of a better word about Capaldi and I have to add my own (oh of course you do, Puro!). I was thinking about this Doctor’s nature, and I believe he exhibits something which, to me, at least, speaks to the strong will in all of us: he has fixity of purpose and the strength of meet the constraints which concern him.

    I believe he understands the fleeting composite of a moment; how insight once revealed, cannot be taken back. I’m reminded of this in several places in the last years: that wonderful animated whirling at the end of Dark Water where, on a neat two-step, he turned and showed a new face -as if he were a completely different person; fresh, clear eyed, with a startling smile and a cheeky poke of the tongue: “I’m an idiot. In a box.”

    From then his path seems clear.

    Having secured his role with the help of Clara, he’s tested it, examined and re-examined it, exerted it and assured its continuation. There’s no gimcracky, no trumpery, he’s not a trifler but frets about his impartiality and ability to be the carer, “a role taken very seriously” admits Clara. He’s vigorous about that and when faced with the potential death of a character, a soldier perhaps, he’s unflappable, imposing and cool and yet as Clara’s intimated many times, “any war will end at the first sound of a crying child.”

    When frustrated and angry he’s snappy and belligerent or worse, up close with a deadly, toneless voice. Still, at the end he promised Clara that the name he chose was the name he makes -remembering forward again, perhaps?

    There is a rawness to this Doctor that reminds me of gentle old age, of passing time and the natural withering of us all. Interesting that he chose that beautiful crimson morning coat in Face the Raven -how appropriate for a funeral. His features are alien. Every bit as Eleven’s: this Doctor’s face is even, long and almost vulpine. The plum stains on gaunt cheeks mark the arc of adventures in the last difficult months travelling with the increasing vain glory of Clara (a concept I stole from @pedant and which fits).

    His eyes, red and watery are merry, sardonic and weary. But when that swooping raven, a terrible augury to the Romans, came for his Clara, this Doctor’s stillness was a marvel. In between animation and the tensile coils of an actor’s movement, there must be corresponding stillness and calm and I thought Capaldi’s Doctor communicated that marvellously. As a person who responds to voice and pitch, it’s his pristine tone which I enjoy so much. It draws you in like the most delicious and tasty food. It’s enchanting to me, that voice, a perfectly composed mix of light sonorous tenor and plangent baritone.

    As to tonight. How will he react? Will he be faced with the Furies who magnify every fear and terror? How will that manifest in him?

    Having seen the Doctor’s carefully plotted brinkmanship with Davros, his easy smile and observant nature, I believe he’ll outsmart his enemies. But if they’re lurking inside the friend, I’m not sure if he’ll retire unscathed.

    At times, viewers may sense a harshness in him -to me it’s just more of the raggedy Doctor but ragged in an entirely different way. He’s certainly still vulnerable but occasional lapses into confusion and a lack of accepted social graces shouldn’t act against him. In fact, such eccentricity is a delight. That old adage, ‘actions count more than words’ fits this Doctor. I believe that’s enough to cement my faith and trust in him. And beyond that I like him -I like him an awful lot. I’m fully won over.


    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    Hey all I just wanted to mention that when I watched Face the Raven again tonight, I noticed something peculiar.  When the Raven/Spirit took off for Clara the tattoo on Ashildr didn’t release like it did for the other man.  Now I don’t know if it’s because like Ashildr said that Clara cut her out of the deal, so the spirit/raven didn’t go through Ashildr or it’s a very noticeable out for Clara’s death.  I don’t know if it’s been discussed in the Raven thread I don’t remember reading it anyway.

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @lisa and @puroandson

    Regarding watching Heaven Sent/Hell Bent – I’m going to have to ask your forgiveness on that one, I’m afraid. Currently Monday, and not only is the episode unwatched, I still don’t want to watch it. 😀

    Not in a grumpy, miserable, I-don’t-want-to-watch this sort of way, I hasten to add. I’m sure Heaven Sent is magnificent, but the sheer relief I felt on Sunday morning at having successfully NOT watched it was a bit of a surprise. I suspect I disliked Series 8 and 9 far more than I’d allowed myself to realise.

    Besides, if I keep forcing myself to watch Doctor Who when I’m not enjoying it, I’ll end up like those certain type of ‘fans’ who post at T’Other place every week, explaining how this week’s episode was terrible, that the viewing figures are falling (with dodgy statistics) because this week’s episode was terrible, and that the producers ought to bring back the Saturnyne from The Vampires of Venice (because this week’s episode was terrible).

    After that there’s nothing left but to change my username to MattSmithIsCool and start denigrating the artistic taste of anyone who has the temerity to even think that this week’s episode might possibly be not terrible. 🙂

    But I’m not planning on leaving the Forum. I may not be joining in the discussions of Heaven Sent (after all, it’s a bit difficult to discuss an episode you haven’t seen), but there’s still the Sofa, the pub, and there’ll be the Christmas Special (which I do plan to watch) and the rewatches.


    Arbutus @arbutus

    @bluesqueakpip    🙂  I logged on specifically to leave you this message and found that you had already been here on the subject before me.

    I just wanted to tell you how much I admire the approach you have taken to the Capaldi era. You have said before that you were taking awhile to warm up to Capaldi’s Doctor, and now we learn that in fact, you have not been able to like him at all. But for most of two series, you have continued to contribute meaningful and objective commentary that has added so much value to the conversations on the Forum. Talk about putting your money where your mouth is in the fight against ARSE! I wish that some commenters in the other place could see how civilized people can do this.  🙂

    My hope is that when we eventually move to the Doctor’s next incarnation, you are able to get as much joy from that person’s interpretation as I have gotten from Capaldi’s. You deserve it!

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip — well, certainly no one can say you didn’t give Capaldi a fair go. I guess there are always just some Doctors we don’t warm to. I do kind of know what you mean though. I think regardless of how well it was done the ‘regeneration crisis’ plot line of last year might have fatally ‘holed’ Capaldi’s Doctor in some way for some, in the same way that Colin Baker could never, ever recover from throttling Peri in The Twin Dilemma. It was an act that just defined his whole era. Just watched The Eleventh Hour last night and Matt just sweeps us along in his enthusiasm and likeability from the moment he appears. And he keeps us swept up throughout his entire tenure, even when his stories started to take a dip. It’s possible that Peter suffered a little because his opening story didn’t allow him to ‘imprint’ himself on fans strongly enough.

    It only struck me relatively recently that part of the reason I like Capaldi’s Doc so much is that he really does remind of an old university professor I had who turned out to be a big influence on me. Made me work bloody hard but I also ended up taking as many of his classes as I could. And Capaldi’s Doc not only looks like him a bit but rather acts like him too.

    These have been a tricky couple of years, which I’ve really enjoyed, but I think the tone of them has perhaps been dictated by Clara as much as the Doctor. While Jenna and Peter have clearly had chemistry, I think 12 should perhaps have had a new companion from the outset, rather than having to accommodate one quite as tricky as The Impossible Girl. I actually think now might be the time for River to come aboard as a full-time companion, perhaps with a third in tow. What wouldn’t have worked with Smith might now definitely work with Capaldi.

    So understand the relief you might feel at taking a step back but I would definitely recommend you take a look at Heaven Sent when you feel able. It’s a startlingly good, probably ground-breaking piece of Who.

    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @bluesqueakpip I hope to see you on the classic who forums then, I found links to the episodes the other day and I’m midway through the An Unearthly Child serial at the moment, I suspect that I may spend a lot of my time over christmas trying to watch through the 26 series (the shortness of episodes I’m sure will help, but I think I counted 40 odd episodes in series 1!)

    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip @arbutus @jimthefish @whisht

    This is son of Puro typing for Ma (the hybrid -then the bus!).

    We had no idea you didn’t warm to Capaldi Miss Squeak but it’s OK -and yes, Whisht, I read your sneaky post there on the other thread.

    Well, Squeaks you’re nothing like those other posters. You have educated us and according to young Son your timey whimey approach is always educational.

    Son of Me says: “I loved Capaldi because he reminds me of Dad”. Wow. Nice. Very nice. I think so too. Sir Ilion can’t fix anything for shite (yes, type that son) but he has a similar personality so in the house it’s like watching a copy. Without the spade and the wires because electrocution would definitely happen. 🙂

    Right, run for bus then.

    Son of Puro!

    chop chop!

    lisa @lisa

    Home InvasionThis was an interesting weekend…
    Posted by Peter Jackson on Sunday, 29 November 2015

    click on where it says  ‘Home Invasion”   – you will all like this !

    Craig @craig

    @lisa Fixed that for you. I really enjoyed it today.

    lisa @lisa



    Thanks for fixing me !            always much appreciated        🙂

    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip


    Favourite bit –

    you want to film it in New Zealand for six months and he wants you to film it in twelve days in Cardiff.


    lisa @lisa


    Well as the 2 are  probably together now in NZ  hopefully they will be working something out?

    fingers crossed !

    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @lisa that did give me a chuckle! also reminded me of how large my list of shows I need to catch up on is: Classic Who, The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, Game Of Thrones, Supernatural, I could go on for ages but I think I’ll stop there.

    Anonymous @


    oh boy, that was awesome. The comments, however, were mainly deranged. You know my user name for facebook so I had to respond to some twit who said that “this clip was more entertaining that the last few seasons of Doctor Who”. I’m afraid I let rip.

    No doubt the lady will send me some general nastiness along the lines of “you dum persan who like who and your a idiot you are also a c****”  -or worse.

    Still, that was very very amusing to watch and beautifully put together. Thank you for finding that @lisa. Great fun. Son of Puro will derive great enjoyment of it as he’s quite the fan of Peter Jackson.

    Just Puro

    winston @winston

    @lisa Thanks for that!  I love Peter Jackson just sitting around the house polishing his Oscars.


    You’ve heard of mansplaining? Meet fansplaining:



    ichabod @ichabod

    @pedant  Love “fansplaining”!

    And just something from that latest Radio Times Moffat interview, here’s the beginning of an answer to a question about making a flow chart for writing an episode to keep it all straight:

    The chart would be worse than the script. Most of my stuff is much simpler than people credit it for being.

    In other words — he’s claiming that he leaves the bonkerizing to us.  Makes me wish he were part of the gang here, actually bonkerizing himself along with the rest of us — now, that would be something to see!

    But — does he really believe what he said?  Do we?

    lisa @lisa


    He has always said that his kids need to be able to understand Who. He has been consistent about that – and, imo, truthful, but he is very good at putting teasing window dressing in, from the dream catchers in S6 to the tarot (apparently) in this season.

    The dream catchers were, of course, the most meta of clues as to Amy’s condition. Few modern TV writers understand the meta as well as Moffat. There is always the risk that it becomes a bit too knowing and inward-looking, but on the whole he manages to stay on the right side of the line.

    Unlike the dickhead who thought he could school JK Rowling.

    And this is just Absolute. Fucking. Genius:



    ichabod @ichabod

    @pedant  He has always said that his kids need to be able to understand Who. He has been consistent about that . . .  Few modern TV writers understand the meta as well as Moffat. There is always the risk that it becomes a bit too knowing and inward-looking, but on the whole he manages to stay on the right side of the line.
    Unlike the dickhead who thought he could school JK Rowling.

    And here’s another one:


    Good (Time) Lord!  Talk about torturing yourself!  At least CapDoc had compelling reasons to stagger his way through Hell.  This fool should have left off years ago, but no, gotta poison the well for everybody else (except the rest of the gripers who would also do themselves a favor and go find something they like better to watch, for gods’s sake).  I’ve outgrown DW a couple of times in the past and left it, dipped back in to see if it was more to my taste, back now for — well, probably as long as we’ve got CapDoc, but who knows?  In this guy’s case, I think DW has outgrown *him*.  Sad.  It’s not a religion; they don’t excummunicate you if you leave.

    Anonymous @

    @pedant Thank you for that sir: we both had a huge laugh.

    Much appreciated.


    Anonymous @

    Hello Whovians, Whovites and other Whomans! I’ve been hiding under your bed for a few weeks, but now I decided to take the plunge into this weird and wonderful world.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @Morpho welcome to our Who loving community. Don’t fear we tend to chase off the Daleks.



    Anonymous @

    Thanks @janetteb 🙂

    AlexPond @alexpond

    Good day my fellow Whovians. I’m a Swedish guy who would like to have more friends that understand how brilliant the Whouniverse is. I appologise in advance for my poor spelling skills sence English is not my native tounge. I’m hoping to have some good chats here. All ready feel at home at this place! 🙂

    darbycrash @darbycrash

    Yeah @alexpond you know your English is better than some native speakers! Then again I live in NJ in the United States so there you go.

    CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis

    Don’t know where to post this question, but does anyone know why the Time Lords are such jerks? They are supposed to be “the best of the best”. Super intelligent, super civilized, but acts rotten. Also, how could the “greatest’ get their hineys whopped by the Daleks?

    winston @winston

    First welcome to @alexpond ! I hope you like it here. I agree that the Whoniverse is a great place to visit.

    @everyone  When I was young and was reading a book that I loved, I would race through the pages until I realized it was coming to the end. Then I would slow down , almost dreading the last page and the end to the  story. I hate endings. So now with the last episode (besides the Christmas episode) fast approaching I am getting that same feeling. Anticipation for the ending and all it may tell us and sadness and regret that Doctor Who is over for another season.

    The only consolation is that my daughter, who is visiting , is a Who fan so I will have someone to watch it with . Popcorn will be popped.

    spud @spud

    Hi – I just wanted to say I thought ‘Heaven Sent’ was probably the best episode ever.  Even after 2 watches it is still breathtaking in its originality.  Peter Capaldi must be the best Doctor ever too, he brings real acting and a sense of gravitas to the role.

    Do you think there is going to be a spin-off with Clara and Ithgyr (spelling?).  And who is going to be the new companion?  They are keeping their cards very close to their chest.

    Love the forum and comments, mine are not nearly as intelligent!


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