Spoilers (2)

[ichabod @ichabod]

@janetteb  I like that slant on it: the macro foreknowledge is permanent background that the Doctor can reach into in emergencies, but he normally leaves it alone so as to be able to actually carry on a relatively sane life (well, lives) on the level of “current events”.  That works.  To have a brain big enough to keep everything throughout time and space in sharp focus on the micro level would probably mean having a brain as big as the universe, which is a bit extreme even for the Doctor.  Sounds like, from another pov, having mentally scanned the Akashic records (of everything ever) and then walking away with a rough summary version in your head with the fixed points highlighted in red . . .

[jphamlore @jphamlore]

@ichabod I thought it has been established that one cannot consciously know certain things about the future and then act contrary to them without creating paradoxes.  Of course one can try to do certain calculations to avoid destroying the very fabric of space and time.

And I suspect since it is imperative that Doctor Who the series take advantage of whatever memory people have of Interstellar, now is the time to have another take on foreknowledge.  Perhaps there will even be mentioned some sort of 5-dimensional bulk and beings in that bulk, one of the beings a version of the Doctor.

The Doctor looked away from the void, the Master looked into it when they were initiated.  I suspect Rassilon and the Time Lords looked into the void and saw their future where Gallifrey had disappeared from the record and made plans accordingly, with failsafes:  the Doctor and the Master.

 

[ichabod @ichabod]

@phamlore  I can never stay clear about what’s been established and what hasn’t, since the writers do sometimes play fast and loose with previously ‘established’ stuff (like, say, Clara being a Time Vortex acrobat satellite to the Doctor’s entire series of lives in S7, and a convincingly human and normal, intelligent, willful woman with a grandma and a boyfriend and everything in S8); though maybe some reconciliation of those two identities may be part of the story of S9 — so, well, I get confused.

Thing is, if he knows some (all?) of the “fixed points”, and fixed really does mean fixed, then you could know your necessary place in snapshots of those fixed points, and feel confident in doing whatever you like in between nothing that you do (short of suicide, and maybe not even that) can change the fact that you *will* wind up at your next fixed point.  If the universe were so delicate that fixed points can be abolished or knocked askew by the Doctor choosing a course that doesn’t correct itself to lead him right to the fixed point he’s trying to avoid, then the fixed points aren’t fixed; they’re conditional.

Which, at least for TLs, would make sense.  What is “lordship” over Time if it doesn’t include being able to boot a fixed point out of your way when you need to and replace it with something more to your liking?  Or does it only mean that as a TL you can *see* all the fixed points, but not do anything about any of them?  More like a Time Accountant, or a Time Cop, keeping the order of things in line?).

On the other hand, I really do take to the idea that the Doctor’s calculations, the ones we saw him working on in S8, were about dodging a future fixed point that includes, let’s say, Clara’s departure or death — although when caught up in the present moment, he can shut all that out and react spontaneously to foreground events.  And I also like the idea of the TLs having pre-planned for the foreseen “destruction” of Gallifrey (which now isn’t destruction but sequestration) by “seeding” the universe with not one but two rebel TLs, who between them can, presumably, re-establish the TL race in the future.

I did see “Interstellar” and sort of understood it (?) at the time, but can you use that film to narrow down the “5-dimensional bulk” thing?  I’m not following, but want to.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@phamlore Just as the Doctor can play fast and loose with fixed points in time when it suits him (and the needs of the script writer/director) so the scriptwriter/director can play fast and loose with what is or isn’t established lore in Who.

or that at least is my belief…

Cheers

Janette

[gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar]

Hi guys . Big Finish has released the name of one of the new radio plays in the ” Doctor Who: Classic Doctors , New Monsters ” set . One of the plays is name ” Fallen Angels ” . This audio play will have the 5th Doctor fighting the weeping angels . The radio play will also star Sacha Dhawan , Diane Morgan , Matthew Kelly , Joe Jameson , and Dan Starkey ( yes , Strax but he will not be playing Strax ) .

[lisa @lisa]

Hi – Michele Gomez hinted this week that there is a connection between using
the same location in both ‘Deep Breath’ and ‘The Girl Who Waited’. This that got my brain
ripping again. So how does the ‘2 Streams’ facility in GWW relate to the ‘3W’ facility in DB?
The 2 Streams facility was sort of a clinic that administered a medicine which was
to cure a plague that afflicted aliens including Galifryans. It also has as a part of
this story this notion of disconnected time streams and I wonder if this is in a way
similar to the time pocket situation of Galifrey ? So the site being referenced was supposed
to be on an infected planet called Apalapucia. I think the planet was a conglomeration made
up of various bits appropriated from other planets and turned into a version of part spa
and part clinic together in one. It had teleporters and inter-active interfaces [Seb?}
I recall several people mentioning the fact that this might not be a coincidence and now
we know and I’m trying to analyze this. Any ideas folks? 2 streams as spa and clinic and 3W
as???

[lisa @lisa]

BTW – The giant magnifying glass that allowed communication between the 2 time streams
in GWW between the sick in the red waterfall area and the green in the normal time stream
area reminds me of Clara being able to talk to Danny after his death when he was inside
the Matrix thru a special ‘potal’. I think this is just brilliant continuity in tying
these 2 episodes together!

9

[janetteB @janetteb]

Interesting. Thank you for that snippet of info @lisa. I will have to re watch The Girl Who Waited as I really don’t remember that episode all that well. Like other I too assumed that they were simply re-using an old set for economy reasons but Moffat is the master of making a story out of necessity so it would not be at all surprising if there is some connection after all. Moffat also likes to play with reality and alternate time streams.

So now I know what to watch on Monday.

Cheers

Janette

[lisa @lisa]

@Janette I also recall that in GWW Amy has to choose which of her selves to delete.
In DB Danny has to choose whether to delete his emotions. Your right that SM often
re uses many concepts over and over including places that don’t physically exist etc.
and so on.
I will be trying to remember linkages for days now 🙂

@Purofilion Very Happy (belated) Birthday Missy Puro 🙂

[lisa @lisa]

@Janette In both situations the dead are being looked after !
( ok time for a break now 😉 )

[Anonymous @]

@lisa thank you for the birthday wishes…hang on…wrong thread. oops

[gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar]

Moffat as said that Maisie Williams character will only be appearing in one episode , she will not be seen again but he did say that they are not just ” throwing her away ” .

@lisa Your theory about the episodes ” The Girl Who Waited ” and ” Deep Breath ” got me thinking . The bits of other planets that Amy found might not be on Apalapucia but be on their own planets . When Amy stepped through the door way she could have been teleported . If there was a small chance of her being teleported she mighted have also time travel . Maybe The Doctor would have to time travel to Gallifrey . The bits of other planets might also be holograms and I’m sure that Missy would use holograms to tease The Doctor . I think that your theory is a good theory but I don’t think that the two episodes are really connected . The Doctor never really got to explore Apalapucia and Clara has never been there , well she did when stepped into The Doctors time line but that was only a echo of her . Doctor Who has reused alot of places for filming and I know that they have done it more than once for this season so the same filming grounds might mean nothing . On the other hand they did mention Amy in the last season and Moffat does like to tease us and bring people back to life so maybe we will see Amy return if the episodes are connected .

[lisa @lisa]

@gamergirlavatar I think the different locations that Amy found and moved thru in the
GWW episode were all within that ‘clinic’. I imagine that this clinic could be something like
hollow decks (star trek as an example) or even very much like the Matrix world (like in DB)
These 2 episodes have some possible links that seem intriguing. I don’t see Amy returning but
I believe we will see other past characters coming back into the story.

[gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar]

@lisa Yeah I think those other bits of planets were on Apalapucia to and I don’t see Amy coming back as well . That post were just some theories I came up with . I’m sure Amy is gone and they won’t bring her back but I’m sure some characters will return .

[gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar]

Reece Shearsmith is going to guest star in the episode Mark Gatiss for season nine .

[tardisstowaway @tardisstowaway]

@gamegirlavatar I think Amy is gone to. Although Moffat brings people back to life a lot I really don’t think it would be appropriate to bring a character so associated with the 11th doctor back to have to cope with the regeneration of the 12th doctor. I think it would be too awkward. And anyway I don’t think she would come back with ought Rory either.

[tardisstowaway @tardisstowaway]

Also what are people’s thoughts about the trailer for season 9?

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Hello @tardisstowaway (great name!) and welcome.

There is a specific thread for just that on the site:

http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/trailers/bbc-approved-doctor-who-series-9-spoilers-and-trailers/comment-page-3/#comments

where you will find lots of thoughts about the trailer.

 

[Anonymous @]

Peter Capaldi recently commented that the issue with The Doctor & Caecilius would be resolved during S9.

Doctor Who fandom is now apparently going into meltdown after a certain couple were spotted in Cardiff last night

So, is an RTD penned episode featuring the 10th Doctor on the way or is this just a couple of cheeky chaps trying to wind us up (and, judging by some of the reaction, succeeding)?

[lisa @lisa]

@FarManInABox I also saw a rumor about the 8th Doctor possibly returning???
I think it would be so cool to have some new interpretation
about how the Doctor chooses his appearance. Remember the
4th Doctor said in the under gallery that he revisited some of
old favorite faces. Oh and please please bring back Doctor Tom
again too!!!!!
BTW – On the subject of TonDoc there is that theory about the under
gallery being the inside of the curator Doctors Tardis and that the
door is located behind the painting of “Galifrey falls no more”.
I’ve re-watched that part over more than a few times. I hope we
get to see more of that location with TomDoc!

[gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar]

@tardisstowaway My thoughts on Maisie Williams character is that she will not be this big character who knows about The Doctor before she meets him . I don’t think she will be a old companion returning or be Susan . I think she will just be a one story character who will be very likeable and smart and maybe people will want her to return but she won’t . I think she will not be part Time Lord , she will be a human but a human who loves adventures . I typed some more theories about her on this thread if you want to read them .

[lisa @lisa]

New trailer being released today according to message that posted from
Doctor Who site just now!!

[JimTheFish @jimthefish Time Lord]

@lisa — new trailer should be live at 7pm apparently

[lisa @lisa]

@jimthefish I know where we will be at that time – watching the only thing that
matters!! over and over 🙂 a welcome diversion and then back to real life

[Anonymous @]

I’m trying desperately to not read anything into this but ‘The Doctor’s Daughter’ (who is also his wife!) has been spotted with, erm, The Doctor.

[janetteB @janetteb]

Seems as though the Tennant family have been holidaying in Cardiff recently. Curiouser and curiouser. Moffat pulling the strings or the return of Jenny??

Either way a lovely photo. Thanks @fatmaninabox

Is that a new coat or just an embellished sleeve that CapDoc is wearing? Looks rather like my boots.

Cheers

Janette

[IndigoMoose @indigomoose]

I just learned that Karen Gillan (Amy Pond) was also present in Fires of Pompeii as a sooth-sayer. Heavy face make-up, massive robe, and a bit part made her difficult to spot. Perhaps this incident will morph into the Fires of Pompeii connection? After all, Amy did have a facination with Roman soldiers and it was her imagination that allowed the Dotor to re-enter the universe after he slipped through a crack in time.

[ichabod @ichabod]

@janetteb  Ah, I think the coat sleeve looks tricked out somehow because the coils connecting the old fashioned land line (?) phone the Doctor is using are picking up a shine for the lighting.  But that coat does have a *lot* of buttons on the cuff, too.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@ichabod yes you are right. IT is just the phone cable. I think my taste in gothic coasts is getting the better of my eyesight.

Cheers

Janette

[lisa @lisa]

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/doctor-who/242720/doctor-who-season-9-news-new-images

nice synopsis of all spoilers so far

[janetteB @janetteb]

@lisa thank you for that link. No real spoilers but some interesting snippets of news there to help endure the interminable wait until the 19th of September.

Cheers

Janette

[lisa @lisa]

https://www.facebook.com/BBCAmerica/photos/pb.13048857977.-2207520000.1440546625./10153504384847978/?type=1&theater

This is a picture from the prequel film showing in the theatres – this is 1 of two but this one
interested me because of the big wolf like shield on the caped guys chest. Made me think of
the wolf of Fenric. Hoping the prequel shows up on YT or someplace like that particularly for
those folks that cant get to see it in a theatre before season 9 starts.

[lisa @lisa]

Cult box says the chalice shown in the new posted photo is the same as the 1 used by the
8th Doctor in his prequel which may be a coincidence but… also, in the other released
photo of the prequel everyone is carrying shovels. What are they going to dig up? Could it
be that chalice? How would it get from that place to the Sisters of Karn? Another
terrific little puzzle to season 9! 🙂

[Anonymous @]

Sorry. I’m new here so I’m still not exactly sure what I’m doing exactly, but is this a good place to write my opinion on Maisie Williams in Season 9?

[janetteB @janetteb]

@theconsultingdoctor The general rule is that this thread is for discussion of anything referencing information that is not “official”. As far as I know there is no news regarding Maisie Williams’s appearance in Doctor Who that has not now been revealed through official sources, ie the trailer. However it is usually best to err on the side of safety as many of our members really really hate spoilers of any kind and post here if you are unsure.

Alternatively if your theory rests purely on BBC released information you can pop over to the bbc-approved-doctor-who-series-9-spoilers-and-trailers thread in blog posts and join in the discussion about the trailer there.

Cheers

Janette

 

[Anonymous @]

Thanks @janetteb .  I’ll go over there now.

[Anonymous @]

So, I don’t know if this would be considered official, and even though I think it is, I’m just going to be safe and talk about it here.  I was thinking about how Osgood is returning, and I think it’s pretty obvious how she returns.  As soon as I saw the first picture of her alive for Season 9, I was and still do think that she when she was  killed by Missy that was actually a Zygon version of Osgood that was killed, and the human Osgood was off somewhere else, so she was never killed.

If you think about it, Osgood seems to be a very smart person, and I doubt that she would actually just walk right up to Missy and then be killed.

[Anonymous @]

Sort of staying on the topic of Osgood, as much as I love Moffat’s writing I just have to rant about him for a minute.  He used to be my favorite writer, but I’ve noticed a very obvious pattern. The only time that Moffat has written an episode where someone has actually died a real and permanent death (and correct me if I’m wrong), was in the time of angels with the guy who’s neck was snapped, and even Sacred Bob could still communicate after that.  In the Girl in the Fireplace, the girl dies.  In A Good Man Goes to War, the girl that wants to meet the Doctor dies.

These are the only times that Moffat has not done the thing where “Everybody lives!”-9th Doctor (From The Doctor Dances, written by…Steven Moffat!)  He just can’t kill off a character, and to prove it I will follow this post by the list of everyone who died, and then didn’t die in episodes written by Steven Moffat (So, that means I cannot include Captain Jack who never dies, until the Face of Boe thing, but I won’t go there.)

[Anonymous @]

Oh, real quick, before I make a long list of people who died, and then didn’t I forgot in A Christmas Carol, the girl who was frozen died, but other than those 4 times…

[Anonymous @]

Okay, I just went through a list of every episode written by Steven Moffat, and here are all of the people that died and then didn’t die in episodes written by Steven Moffat.

Season 1: Anyone who was turned into a gas mask zombie ended up living.  The first boy had been dead before he was turned into a zombie, and then he came back to life.

Season 3: Some people do die in Blink, but if you think about it Moffat created a monster that kills you by sending you back in time, so technically they aren’t actually being killed.  They still get to have full life in another time.

Season 4: When River and everyone that dies in the forest of the dead, they are all saved onto a computer, and are technically still alive. Also, River does come back.

Season 5: The boy that you think is sent to his doom in the Beast Below survives because the star whale doesn’t hurt children.  In the Flesh and Stone, the people who die by walking into the crack never really exist, so they aren’t technically dead. That is the same for Amy’s parents who are forgotten from the crack.

Season 5/6/7: Rory keeps dying and eventually does die, but like I said before, he isn’t actually dead, just back in time.  He and Amy live out their lives together.

Season 6: The Doctor dies, but then it turns out he’s a robot. Strax dies in a Good Man Goes to War, and then doesn’t in the prequel  to the next episode.

Season 7: I already mentioned Amy and Rory. Clara dies multiple times. In the Wedding of River Song, Jenny and Strax die then live.  THe Great Intelligence returns.

Season 8: The cyborg that dies goes to heaven. In Time Heist, the two people in the bank die, but then were actually transported.  The kid Danny kills returns in the place of Danny.  Danny and many others come back as Cybermen, and then he comes back again in the Christmas special even though it is just a dream version of him. Also, Kate survives falling out of an airplane.

And in the Day of the Doctor, EVERYONE ON GALLIFREY IS SAVED! Moffat can’t even let the time lords die, and that’s kind of the whole point of the new who series.

Now, I just want to say that I’m okay with some of these characters returning, but what bothers me is that it keeps happening.

This is the spoiler section so it’s okay for me to say that Missy and Osgood both are alive after being killed in Season 9.

Moffat is making me want characters to just die already.  The everybody lives thing is getting way over used. If your a Sherlock fan, keeping this spoiler free if you aren’t all I’ll say is more than once in Sherlock (not saying who).  That is just another thing proving he can’t kill characters.

[gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar]

@theconsultingdoctor What you have to remember about Moffat is that he kills people and than brings them back to life. This can some times get old but, in sci-fi people always die and come back to life.

[lisa @lisa]

Apparently there is a new trailer from the BBC/UK and at 26 seconds into it there
is something new and intriguing! It looks a lot like a gate(archway) of some type.
It shows a Tardis leaning over on the right and some letters possibly Galifreyan?
underneath. I cant wait to find out where this gate leads to! Anyone have any
interesting ideas about this gate?

@arbutus – You may be right but I thought that it might be a possibility that
the spiky tooth folks might still have been stuck on the end of time planet.

[lisa @lisa]

Wondering if this gate is on Galifrey and that maybe the Time lords had this
extra time gate for the purpose of traveling? Maybe this is how Missy
made it back to Earth. I imagine there had to be possibly hundreds of Time
lords trapped on Galifrey and so why couldn’t they achieve the creation of
a time gate?

[ichabod @ichabod]

@lisa  That arched gateway stands in what looks like a depopulated war zone, with the TARDIS knocked or landed crookedly next to it (but with its top light still on and no visible damage.  But what we see through the archway is a daytime desert, all sunlight, sand, and rock — not, it seems to me, a very hostile prospect in its own right, not a refuge from the gloomy foreground.  I read that instant as a look into an abandoned transfer-point, no longer in use because it doesn’t get you anywhere better than where you are already.

Unless, of course, the desert is an illusion, or a momentary stepping stone to yet another transfer, to something better.

Or, the whole system is kaput, battered to bits or self-destroyed, leaving gateways to ruin everywhere and noting but . . .

[lisa @lisa]

Regarding this gate in the trailer video – my hunch is its Galifrey and the
gate allows them to pass thru from the ‘stasis’ Galifrey outwards. Similar
in the way the Zygons broke out of the pictures being kept in the under gallery.
Maybe its a way that the Doctor broke into stasis Galifrey? Looks a bit like
the Tardis broke thru and tipped over and the soils from the day side spilled
over into the night side? Why am I thinking that this might be from the episode
towards the end of the season that Capaldi is in by himself? The series can’t
start soon enough! I’m attempting to fan fic every curious scene I look at ;(

[janetteB @janetteb]

@lisa thanks for the link to the trailer. I have to watch at least one more time before I can really comment but yes there is a definite hint of Gallifrey there.

I do wonder if anything more is going to be made of the paintings of Gallifrey in the Gallery. Is that where Gallifrey actually is hidden, in the National Gallery. Maybe the numbers Missy gave the Doctor were the security code. That would certainly explain why almost every alien incursion is centered around London or at least the U.K.

Also seeing M.W at the end there inspired another idea though I sure someone must have suggested it elsewhere but she could be the Meddling Monk. (Though I doubt that Moffat would play the gender change card again immediately after doing that with Missy.) However if that is Gallifrey in the image then I think it heightens the likelihood that M.W, is in some way connected with it.

Cheers

Janette

[lisa @lisa]

@janetteb Well I don’t know what to be thinking anymore about who MW is. For a
moment I was even entertaining a little conspiracy theory that it had to be Ace based
on the fact the ‘Curse of Fenric’ audio story was getting released and that Sophie
Aldred who played Ace before was everywhere doing all the comic cons and Who cons and
that was some how a clue. But that’s just silly …. right? lol

@Supernumerary Yes I’m thinking your right about that last planet being further
along into a time without any life surviving. I’ve always liked that episode and
Jacobi’s master. A bit unfortunate that we only saw him in the part that 1 time.

[lisa @lisa]

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-09-02/does-this-explain-how-river-song-is-returning-in-doctor-who

River Song for Christmas

[janetteB @janetteb]

Just saw that on the Guardian. Made my day. I was saying to R.1 the other day that I did not think last year’s christmas special could be bettered. Maybe I was wrong.

Many felt that the poignancy of her farewell to the Doctor in The Name of the Doctor but as Dan Martin points out that is her farewell to Smithy Doc. A.K refers to the casting. I wonder whom she is referring to.

Cheers

Janette

 

[gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar]

Alex Kingstons River Song will meet the 12th Doctor this Christmas. The filming for the Christmas episode has already started will air this Christmas.

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