27 April 2017 at 03:14 #56779Anonymous @
@rob great to see you and your avatar back! Your coffee machine is working over-time?
Reminds me, need to pop down and get the 27- buck coffee plunger going -hilariously cheap and very good coffee (considering I was a percolator girl but no-one else would drink it claiming it was so strong the spoon stood up!).
Agreed: the clues in The Pilot were wonderful. The gentle pace at the beginning helped us focus on the new companion -a real and proper re-boot, which, when you get to Episode 2, is interesting -reboot/robots.
All the best,
Puro.27 April 2017 at 21:36 #56807wolfweed @wolfweed
Beware: Some really narky posts on the page in the link below… I’m not sure if all the haters know (or care) that it was Peter Capaldi’s idea for the 12th Doctor to play the guitar? Whatever the case, they were spared this:
Too much a Clara overdose for a story which introduces a new companion, perhaps?
Is she returning (Steven Moff said no in 2015…)???27 April 2017 at 22:21 #56809Redlemons @redlemons
@wolfweed thanks for the heads up. It has never dawned on me to want a companion from the USA even though that’s were I am from. When they say his companions are whinny I wanted to yell… Let’s see how you’d handle being in those situations. As far as his playing the guitar, if I lived as long as him I think I would learn lots of instruments.27 April 2017 at 22:41 #56810
@redlemons As far as his playing the guitar, if I lived as long as him I think I would learn lots of instruments.
Yes — things aren’t hopping all the time; we don’t get to see the quieter moments a stretches of time in the Tardis, we get the *stories*. Why wouldn’t he play guitar? Though I think he’d play some quieter, more meditative work too, in those quieter times. But we’ll never see those . . .28 April 2017 at 10:15 #56824
@wolfweed: Thank you , what a shame they had to cut the scene. As I keep harping on about, they cut the Dalek scene too, the funniest scene in the episode – well, one of them. I still haven’t seen the article where Steven Moffat explains why they cut it. Could someone steer me in the right direction please?
Missy28 April 2017 at 16:05 #56834JimTheFish @jimthefishTime Lord
@missy– SM talks about it in the After Show interview for this episode, which I think @craig has posted on this thread. You should be able to find it if you scroll back a couple of pages…
thanks to @wolfweed for posting. Hopefully this scene will make it onto the DVD release… in fact, what with that and the ‘missing’ Dalek scene, is there an argument for an Extended Cut of this episode, I wonder….28 April 2017 at 20:57 #56840Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
Really not sure why people hate the Doctor playing the guitar. He’s played the recorder, formed his own rock group (with Marcus Aurelius on bass guitar) and seems to know how to play the harp. Which is also a Gallifreyan instrument as well as a human one.
Music is clearly part of a young Time Lord’s education, so why shouldn’t he relax with a guitar this regeneration?28 April 2017 at 20:59 #56841JimTheFish @jimthefishTime Lord
@bluesqueakpip — I agree. I’ve loved the guitar/fading rock star aspect of Capaldi’s Doc…28 April 2017 at 21:14 #56842IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant
I agree, although it is worth noting that where Who is discussed in less…..nerdy…environs, the guitar and the tank were very widely, and wildly, acclaimed. Obviously I exclude the Graun from this, despite @danmartin‘s best efforts, because it has been largely over run by fuckwits. But, f’rinstance, the various official Facebook pages were places of much whoopin’ and hollerin’ at the tank and the Strat.
(Although, having said that, from the explanation given – probably the right choice to cut the scene).29 April 2017 at 05:13 #56851
@pedant I get the impression that nobody was offended but old fan geeks (like me) who think that having been watching forever, they somehow have acquired the right to defend “their” show from anything they see as “new”, plus the right to school everybody else in the few ways that it is appropriate to enjoy DW (unlike me, thank goodness). Although young fans can be rigid in their own ways, of course. Maybe if more of both cohorts had bothered to go back and listen to Capaldi’s group doing “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” . . . only he wasn’t playing the guitar, so . . . maybe not.
I liked the guitar; I liked the sunglasses. I like *anything* that gives this highly expressive and inventive actor more stuff to turn into “stage business” so that it serves the scene. I guess I’ve just got no standards; sometimes it’s just more fun that way.29 April 2017 at 07:44 #56852Anonymous @
I liked the guitar; I liked the sunglasses. I like *anything* that gives this highly expressive and inventive actor more stuff to turn into “stage business”
Me too: although a lot of people (and fair do, people here too) thought the tank and the glasses AND the guitar were part of a ramp up of OTT fun attempting to inject ‘much needed’ humour/ lightness into a season that lacked such in the previous season. I liked ’em all. I have no standards either 😀
Puro29 April 2017 at 07:47 #56853Anonymous @
personally I want him to spend 5 hours scraping away at oboe reeds and then play something nice from the 1700s.
But that wouldn’t get any airplay.
(Puro)29 April 2017 at 08:04 #56854
@Puro Hell, I’d listen. So, here’s a guy who got what he wanted: his “dream job”. Now he’ll head out on his own and think about all that that meant, and what it means now. I remember when he said on some panel, or in some interview, back at the beginning, something about how overjoyed he was to have this chance at the role of his dreams, but that of course, “being Scottish”, he couldn’t help but think too of how it would have to come to an end at some future point.
What better man to play a 2,000 year old traveler with a Tardis.29 April 2017 at 08:26 #56855Mudlark @mudlark
Though I think he’d play some quieter, more meditative work too, in those quieter times. But we’ll never see those . . .
Perhaps we did, though – in that final scene of The Woman Who Lived when we saw him in meditative mood, alone and playing his guitar in the lighted interior of the Tardis, framed by the star-sprinkled blackness of space.
If liking the guitar, the sunglasses and the tank are a hallmark of a lack of standards then, like you and puro, I am similarly lacking 🙂30 April 2017 at 03:38 #56896
@jimthefish I’ve loved the guitar/fading rock star aspect of Capaldi’s Doc…
D’you think I’m off in seeing a gleam of self-satire in the flamboyance of the entrance-with-guitar-and-tank? It never struck me as “fading rock star” but rather as “wannabe rock star” — which was, at one point, what Capaldi and his friends all were. “If you can’t be childish sometimes — ”
@mudlark Quite right, that was a private moment with music. Sometimes I wish they had time for a bit more of that sort of thing, but of course the story must be served before all else . . . Still . . . stillness also serves sometimes.30 April 2017 at 05:28 #56901
@ichabod: If liking the guitar, the sunglasses and the tank are a hallmark of a lack of standards then, like you and puro, I am similarly lacking
Count me in too. A favourite clip of mine is when he spots Clara (Magicians Apprentice) and plays the first bars of “Pretty Woman.” Pure magic.
Missy30 April 2017 at 07:10 #56905
@missy Or — was that Missy he played it for? Or both, when he spotted them on the battlement above?1 May 2017 at 02:55 #56961janetteB @janetteb
I woke up in the middle of the night and realised why there is a portrait of Emma Hamilton on the wall to the left of Rembrandt. It is a reference to Missy, Emma being chiefly known of as Nelson’s mistress. I am now even more curious as to the identity of the woman on the right. She is clearly roughly contemporary to Emma, so that narrows the research a little. (Rubs hands with glee. The game is on..)
I too enjoy the guitar and the glasses. The later is something I am perhaps more used to than a lot of other viewers as my s/o at one stage was developing monitor/sunnies as part of his wearable computing rig. (before the smart phone appeared on the scene) I see the guitar playing as just another expression of the playfulness of the Doctor. He likes to show off, and how better than by making a big noise so neither aging rocker or wannabe, both of which have a twinge of sadness about them.
Janette1 May 2017 at 04:04 #56965winston @winston
@janetteb @missy and @ichabod I liked the tank and the guitar and the “idea” of the sonic glasses but I love PC’s expressive eyes which tell so much of the story that I don’t like them covered up. Anyone else think the Doctor is just a little more soft and fuzzy this series? I want to give him a cuddle.1 May 2017 at 04:36 #56967
@winston I like to see his eyes, too, and actually prefer the sunglasses as something he gets to play around with as a prop. And yes, he’s softened and warmed, but reassuringly calm and confident about the downside — people dying. Not happy about it, mind; but not demoralized by guilt and remorse, either. Good; he’s earned some inner peace and balance. I wonder how long it will last . . .1 May 2017 at 09:55 #56976Mudlark @mudlark
The woman in the print on the wall to the right of the fireplace is also Emma Hamilton. It’s from one of the portraits of her by Romney. She must have had more portraits painted of her than any woman in history.
Did he met her at some point, even enjoy a brief dalliance with her ? – it would have been in character for the tenth Doctor, although I doubt she would have held his interest for long. I think it was Madame Vigee Lebrun, who also painted her, who commented that she wasn’t very intelligent.1 May 2017 at 12:47 #56985janetteB @janetteb
@mudlark So both portraits are Emma. That would account for them being of the same period. I had not had a really good look at the second one.
Reading about her recently I don’t think she was particularly intelligent or altruistic either so she has the later in common with Missy. I wondered if Emma was the inspiration for Rebecca Sharp of Vanity Fair. I don’t think she would have been the Doctor’s “type”.
Janette2 May 2017 at 04:58 #57021
@jimthefish; How rude of me! Thank you so much for the info about the After show, I shall have a look.
@ichabod: No, I’m pretty sure it was fro Clara, because he heard her voice.
@winston: You took the words right out of my mouth. Yes I would like to hug him and I felt it even more so in Thin Ice.Thing is, it’s making it harder to say goodbye to him isn’t it. *sniff*
Missy3 May 2017 at 03:28 #57049
Very enjoyable, I watched the After show on YT and heard Steven Moffat’s explanation about cutting the Dalek scene.
Still a shame, but I could understand his reasoning. I do believe they said something about it being on the special Edition? May watch again. he is a delight to watch and listen to, a natural comic.
Thank you again @jimthefish;
Missy6 May 2017 at 22:08 #57173wolfweed @wolfweed6 May 2017 at 22:22 #57174nerys @nerys
@ichabod I must not have any standards, either. I too have loved Capaldi’s magician’s coat, the guitar, the sunglasses, the “fading rock star” aspects of this Doctor. Why wouldn’t he explore that aspect of musicality merged with personality? It seems so very Doctor-like, to play with human personae and see if they fit.15 May 2017 at 21:00 #57531Frobisher @frobisher
Hmm, a belated thought: Anyone else get a bit of a Flight of the Navigator vibe from this? I love that film! 🙂3 June 2017 at 10:31 #58406
Well, I disappeared for a long time, both because I’ve been extremely busy and also somewhat unwell, but also it has to be said because I just stopped enjoying Who. Season 9 was arduous, but gosh I’m enjoying Season 10! I’m glad we’ve found our way back to a Doctor/Companion dynamic where the Doctor is front and centre. Loving Bill!3 June 2017 at 10:43 #58408
@serahni: I just stopped enjoying Who. Season 9 was arduous
That’s almost blasphemous! *grins*
Ever since PC became the Doctor (except for the rare episode because of the writing) the show has been superb.
I loved 8/9/ and now 10, with, as I said, exceptions. Surely you can’t have found fault with “Heaven Sent?”
Missy3 June 2017 at 11:08 #58410
@missy I will admit Season 9 had moments of splendor. Heaven Sent may be Capaldi’s finest, but I suspect, for me at least, it’s because it was just that; Capaldi’s. Don’t get me wrong, when Clara entered the show in Smith’s final run, I loved her. I enjoyed The Impossible Girl arc. But, for me, there became a twisted dynamic where she took over the show and then the eventual payout just didn’t resonate with me the way I had hoped. I should not have been glad when a character I loved so much to start with left.
That being said, I will be sad to see Capaldi go and I do want to rewatch all his episodes now that I’m not waiting to try and figure out how all the Clara/Danny stuff fits in, or how Clara’s departure was actually going to pan out. I suspect I will find more things to treasure, but only because I’ll be ignoring all the nonsense that got in the way of it being his show. At least in my eyes.3 June 2017 at 13:34 #58421
@serahni I’m sorry to hear you didn’t enjoy Series 9 all that much. It was the Capaldi era that brought me back to Who, and I haven’t caught up with the final run of Smith’s tenure and the “Impossible Girl” arc, but I never did become a big Clara Oswald fan — although I was moved by her actual relationship with the Doctor, her romance arc in Series 8 was wearying. I’ve seen most of that season and intend to catch up with the rest eventually — probably by year’s end as Capaldi’s departure looms — but it’s telling that the “missing” episodes for me are “Kill the Moon”, the 2-part finale, and “Last Christmas”. She and Danny did get way too much attention given that it wasn’t that romantic or exciting (and kind of derivative of Rose and Mickey) — and she really did have more chemistry with the Doctor! It didn’t help that in a lot of situations she seemed to be a bigger jerk than the Doctor (supposedly) was but he always seemed to get the short end of the straw.
Series 9 did a better job balancing Clara and the Doctor, though in hindsight I see the seams show with regards to it their relationship — Jenna Coleman staying on was an eleventh hour decision and until the finale arc starts Clara spends a lot of episodes mostly on the sidelines, with her conversations with the Doctor often in the “margins” of the actual stories. I do wonder what Series 9 would have been like if Clara was gone — would they have gone with a new companion like Bill right away, or maybe had him searching for a new one in the midst of adventures like the Davros 2-parter that are really about his relationships with adversaries?
Any-who, I’m glad you’re enjoying Series 10 and Bill and the Twelfth Doctor!3 June 2017 at 13:51 #58423Anonymous @
had him searching for a new one in the midst of adventures like the Davros 2-parter that are really about his relationships with adversaries?
Ah OK! I thought that this introduction to 2015 was the Doctor’s relationships with everyone: not just the sisters of Karn, or Gallifrey but the Trio of Davros, Missy and Clara: the friend inside the enemy. This is the process where Clara grows more interested in Missy, where even the “clever Clara” theme’s cemented: and I like it!
It’s hard to handle an extra person, as it were. The Doctor is his own adversary, Missy and Davros are worthy opponents (Davros the antagonist here) and by having Clara present, in world, we it thru Clara’s eyes. Here Missy can tutor Clara on: “How the Doctor frees himself.”
And Clara gets it: “he assumes he’s going to win“.
Lesson 1 for Clara in Season 9 -it’s a feasible idea. And moves on from a previous lesson: use enemies plans against them (Flatline..)
Kindest, Puro3 June 2017 at 14:16 #58424
@thane15 That is an excellent point — “The Magician’s Apprentice”/”The Witch’s Familiar” does get a lot of material packed into its two parts by way of setting up all of the season’s major themes and plot devices and juggling a bunch of familiar characters about along the way, in some fresh combinations at that. I just see Missy and Clara as sort of the B-plot to the A-plot with Davros and the Doctor. 🙂3 June 2017 at 14:58 #58427
@missrori It is likely true that a lot of my weariness is still directed at Season 8, which is just another reason for me to give Season 9 another shot. I am happy I decided not to be a grouch and gave Season 10 a chance whilst it’s actually airing instead of waiting, even though this way I have to deal with the frustration of not being able to binge-watch it! I know this Season has its own arc but it feels less reliant on it than the past couple. I’ve enjoyed every episode so far and I probably haven’t said that since maybe Season 7.3 June 2017 at 16:24 #58428
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