The Pilot

Home Forums Episodes The Twelfth Doctor The Pilot

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    smallgreenplant @smallgreenplant

    *sigh* theres a noob error…

    Redlemons @redlemons

    @whisht thanks for the welcome. After reading everyone’s theories I feel I am well out of my league, but I  love reading them all.   Tom Baker has always been my favorite guess it’s cause he was the first DW I had the chance to see.    Again thanks!

    Mudlark @mudlark


    *sigh* there’s a noob error…

    Not to worry. Code occasionally appears in posts, sometimes for no obvious reason, but you have a chance to delete it. For the first four minutes or so you will see ‘edit’ top right, next to the post number, and if you click on that you can make corrections, whether it is intrusive code, typos or whatever.


    Mudlark @mudlark


    Re the cataract surgery: I had problems with dry eye syndrome after the first eye was done – as you say, it felt sometimes as if I had grit in the eye, but on the advice of my local pharmacist I used hypromelose drops, which were very effective in alleviating the problem. With the second, right eye, there have been fewer after effects, though for several weeks the eye was so dry when I woke that it felt as if the eyelid was sticking to the eyeball, but again, the drops were very effective.

    The benefits have been twofold. The yellowish haze which obscured things has gone and, as @nerys says, colours suddenly seem brighter, truer and more vivid, but also I can *see* clearly for the first time in nearly 60 years without having to resort to glasses.

    Whisht @whisht

    ah – seems I didn’t give credit enough to Phaseshift for his Egg whisk as well as his nods to Shada and Professor Chronotis

    Somehow I thought of Blenkinsopthebrave – was it the wine I’d been drinking linking my thoughts to that great gentleman’s wine cellar??
    I’ll never know, but only a man of his class would say “nay, not I but this other”.


    As for @redlemons – aw c’mon, I reckon there’s more bonkers theories in people here yet!

    btw – did anyone else see/ think that the vault was damaged? I think I saw a part of the door that exposed the inner workings of the lock (but I’m not saying this was done by the Doctor).

    hey ho – monitoring or breaking in…….?

    Craig @craig

    I don’t know how I managed to miss this on my YouTube visits as it was posted 6 days ago. But here’s almost an hour of Capaldi, Moffat, producer Brian Minchin and new companion Pearl Mackie talking about the new series. I have to admit I haven’t watched it yet – just about to – but I’m already assuming it’s good.

    Edit: forgot to add, don’t watch if you don’t like even mild spoilers!

    ichabod @ichabod

    It’s excellent — thanks so much for the link!  Did Moffat ever do stand-up comedy?  He’s amazing with the quick, clever, and funny retort (often a retort to what he himself just said).  Quick wits — damn it, he will be missed.  Some excellent questions from the audience, as well.

    One odd thing, though, and I wonder if anyone else felt this: I swear, sometimes when Pearl was answering a question, she reminded me very strongly of River Song, maybe in part because her voice in the show is higher (presumably signifying younger, more excitable), so when it lowers down into her throat a bit more she sounds very adult indeed.

    I like Peter’s remarks about preferring his nostalgia as memories dropped into the creative stew of his experience rather than freeze-dried and stored in a cabinet of frozen files (or, maybe more accurately, smear-able memories over re-watching the version of the story fixed on film).

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Just back from a second viewing. OK, it is clear that the vault is not inside the Tardis, it is on university grounds. Also the Doctor clearly does not want to open the vault. And he says at some point (I know, forgotten already) that he has made a promise (to who?) that keeps him at the university. (And has for the last 50 years…?)

    And from this I conclude…that I am not much clearer to an understanding…And yet, for some reason, I believe we are going to see Heather again. And I also think that the puddle that takes Heather as a pilot is not simply SM repeating himself (The Landlord) but will play out in some way over the course of the series. Maybe.

    ichabod @ichabod

    @blenkinsopthebrave  The vault is in the basement, isn’t it?  They went outside the building with the Doctor’s office in it to reach the vault.  Universities in the States sometimes have whole mazes of service tunnels beneath the buildings on their campuses, which maintenance staff use to deal with plumbing, ventilation, heating, and cooling systems.  That’s what it looked like to me.

    Someone suggested (somewhere — here?) that the Doctor’s promise was made by him to himself — not to go traveling with a human companion again? — so maybe he’s been using the vault as a kind of anchor to his traveling impulse: have to stay here ’til we get it open and see what’s inside, or ’til it’s time to open it and let whatever it is out . . .

    Little House @littlehouse

    Hi all,

    I’m new here.  I have watched all of the new Doctor who series (but only a couple of the classic series).  This is the first season that I have watched realtime.  Always before I waited until the series came to Netflix to watch.  But after more than a year off, I just couldn’t wait anymore.


    I loved the Pilot and have watched it several times.  I have a couple of bonkers theories that I have not seen here.

    The first is about Bill.  I think that she is the granddaughter of the Doctor and River.  The doctor’s last night with River WAS 24 years long…  And 50 years as a professor was plenty of time to watch a daughter grow up and to keep an eye on a granddaughter (from afar…”not supposed to interfere”).  The doctor did seem to know Bill’s mother as he is the one who took pictures of her.  He did look at Susan’s picture as he said, “I noticed you.”  And keeping an eye on a granddaughter would be a promise to keep.  Following this line, there must be some enemy of Bill’s in the vault.  Something we have not seen before?  I don’t know.  I loved River and would love to see her story (if not her) continue.

    My other observation is when they are on the future planet and the Doctor is explaining the super intelligent space oil.  He says, “A left behind droplet of a liquid spaceship.  A single teardrop.”  He goes on to explain how and why it took Heather.  But I find the use of the word teardrop interesting. The word drop would have worked just as well, except that at the end of the show, Bill has a tear in her eye and says, “I don’t think it is mine.”  Is it “A single teardrop of a liquid spaceship?” I doubt that we have seen the last of Heather.

    I have loved reading all your posts.  Can’t wait for the next episode.

    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    @littlehouse First, welcome!  You’ll feel right at home here.  I really like your comment on the teardrop – I hadn’t connected those two moments, but I feel sure you’re right that they are significant.

    I don’t know about your other theory – there is something of a consensus that the photos with Bill’s mum were done by the doctor dashing back in time to take some photos to give Bill something by which to recall her mother, since neither Bill nor her foster-mum had any recollection of that box of photos being there previously.  But, as we say so often here, Who knows?


    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Just got in after a lousy run at work, but my mind’s buzzing with a couple of ideas so I’ll mind-splurge ahead of tonights show.

    Our little game of ‘choose-a-choon’ for The Pilot on the music thread (excellent choice of tracks @whisht and @thane15) found us dwelling on the possibility that Heather was a David Bowie tribute (the girl with the mousy hair, with a disconcerting left eye, and more than a little bit of an unearthly starchild).

    The question that remained was, really, why? Well, I’d forgotten something Peter Capaldi mentioned at the beginning of series 9, another thing on his wish list. He would have loved Bowie to appear on the show (he also said that if he had access to a real TARDIS he’d go back to watch the Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders of Mars concerts – showing himself to be a man of impeccable taste). It would have been awesome, especially if they’d gone with my own suggestion of asking him to reprise his role of Nikola Tesla from The Prestige.

    And then came 2016 🙁 . As Peter seems to be getting some of his other wishes granted this year, I’d see this as potentially a tribute by a couple of fan boys.

    I genuinely haven’t met an older fan of Doctor Who who isn’t drawn to Ziggy Stardust. They play on the same turf and the call outs to Bowie over the years in Doctor Who have been many and varied. We also know Doctor Who was very much on his radar. In 1973, after recording Jean Jeanie for Top of the Pops, the band went to the BBC television centre Bar to spend an evening drinking with the Doctor Who team who were working on Planet of the Daleks. Apparently onlookers were convinced that the band (who were still in costume) were making an appearance on the show. Much later, Bowie seriously considered playing Sharaz Jek in Caves of Androzani (it didn’t go ahead because he was on tour and the production could not delay for three weeks. If Peter Davison’s last story had been the end of the season, with another story before it, it could’ve happened. This is another reason (if any were needed) to dislike Twin Dilemma).

    So, yeah, if Heather is part of a tribute then she isn’t a monster and things are not as they seem. Watching this, she’s a mirror for the Doctor. She offers Bill travel in Time and Space and keeps her promise to not leave without her. The Doctor warns against it because ‘she isn’t human anymore’. Neither is the Doctor, of course, he’s never been human. But perhaps living like a human in his rooms and having a day job has led him to forget that to an extent. His ‘alien’ viewpoint may be compromised.

    I just thought I’d put the idea out there. Bowie has a tremendous back catalogue and I’d be lying if I said my knowledge of his career and work was anywhere near comprehensive. I adore the seventies stuff in the main. So, if you think you’ve spotted a reference then make it known.

    If, for example, the Mark Gatiss episode (set on Mars apparently) sees the appearance of John Simm as the Master, then that is intertextual gold (John being the Star of Life on Mars of course, a show I’ll recommend to anyone who hasn’t seen it).

    See you all after the (freakiest) show.

    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    Oh @phaseshift, I do hope you’re right. I would love to think that Bowie is there in Who, past and present.  I did think momentarily of Bowie’s eye when I saw Heather’s, but I didn’t follow the thought through.  Will be on Bowie alert from now on.

    Anonymous @

    @phaseshift @cathannabel

    “exeterminate confirmation bias, exterminate, exterminate”

    Ronson and the others, seriously?

    “wot, a show like that?”

    They were pretty drunk and fairly high. Bowie was off his nut, then.

    But a lovely idea.

    Puro (a bit bleary myself).

    Anonymous @


    Mum, honestly, go back to bed!

    It’s Thane here. You’re letting yourself go again. 🙂

    No more Bowie stories, mum, leave it to the professionals who know things.

    In fact it’s time for some Dire Straits…..there’s a song that would fit right here.

    No, I know you want more Bowie, but after breakfast….OK, after a coffee….

    Just ignore her,

    Thank you for reading and for your patience, Fora! (I learnt what fora meant! I thought it was a bush or plant. How embarsasing that was!). I really liked The Pilot. Not as much as the episodes in 2015 but I did enjoy it and thought it shows a bright future for the series. I do think the earlier episodes in the first series were dark and Mat will always be my favourite but I enjoy how PC brings some momentum into the series, now?

    Thane15 and Puro (needing her warm -up and polite coffee for the morning).Yikes, it’s early here and cold!

    lisa @lisa

    Didn’t the Doctor say he promised to watch after the crypt?  Did he make the promise to River ?

    Is that why Nardole is there?  Added value as he had previously been River’s assistant so did he

    help her  to trap what might be in there?

    If this is the case we aren’t finished with River’s story?

    Apologies if some one already thought this.

    I  just don’t want to give up on River because I like her story too much.

    Missy @missy

    As no one has come up with an idea about what the GOLD SPIRALS were under the glass dome, or a theory about the BIRD – other than a Raven – wrong shape – I tried asking google.  No luck.

    Ashes to Ashes was well worth watching.

    Perhaps the Master’s ring is in the vault – who knows?


    Missy @missy


    Yes I too have dry eye syndrome – badly.  Thing is, now it’s even worse, unless I use drops and wear dark glasses whilst on the computer. The drops are OPTIVE. With luck, things should improve with time.


    Anonymous @

    @missy. Hello there. Thane here.

    Indeed, the bird (not a raven) has been noticed by others including @mudlark,  and  @smallgreenplant

    @littlehouse great to hear from a new member. Love the idea of the “teardrop.” And you’re right, it could’ve been left as a ‘tear’

    @cathannabel – mum is  waving “halloo”

    @phaseshift. I loved Bowie. Well, I still do <teardrop> but I know that on my 2nd birthday I got a CD of Scary Monsters. I didn’t know what it was but I learned to use the house’s stereo. Each year and for Christmas I received an album of an important group/artist. At age 3 I got Blonde on Blonde. By the time I was 5 and in school, I was the only person who could spell “blonde.” Anyway, I loved the whole Ziggy Stardust ‘universe.’ I used to ask Mum have other bands or people done this type of thing and she said, “yes, the Beatles and also Jimmy Buffet, tried.” She’d laugh then, but actually, I like Jimmy Buffet’s Volcano.

    I have no doubt that Steven Moffat and Gatiss really like David Bowie’s music  and that he’s like a companion in the Tardis. Like the Tardis was Idris, I think there’s a ‘Bowie’ in there too. But not locked away – all over the universe which is why I think like @cathannabel, yourself  and @littlehouse could be right, Heather’s coming back….

    @lisa Oh, I love River too. I think we won’t see her again and it makes me sad but I’m so glad that the Christmas special in 2015 saw them on Darillium. I also really like Nardole and so does Mum? Neither of us saw him in anything else before then but I know that in the UK he’s all over the telly.

    Thank you, from Thane.

    Anonymous @

    @missy what are the GOLD SPIRALS?

    Is that a hidden something in this episode? Like we saw Mary Celeste in vertical writing in the area where the Doctor tends to the vault?

    I don’t think the bird is a raven as you pointed out. I think it’s an alien bird -like a combination of different birds? I think @Ichabod was in on this discussion too further up thread. It’s amazing that there are already 4 pages of comments about this terrific ‘pilot’, isn’t there?!

    Have you seen the next one? I watched it with Mum on iview but I’m going to watch it again tonight and then tape the special with Rove McManus on ABC2

    Thank you,


    Missy @missy

    @craig: First of all, thank you for the video, I’ve just watched it.

    One hopes that the young person who was being bullied is not on this forum and has reported it to those in charge. I’ve never seen Steven Moffat so angry and agree with everything he said. Let’s also hope that the bully was watching and feels heartily ashamed of themselves. Loved the way he described DW as not resembling anything else but itself, and thinking how much better a film he was watching, would have been if the Doctor turned up with the Tardis.

    Peter’s comment that he was a fan, but not a student is exactly right, from my point of view, and ‘watch out” when you tread on a creaky floorboard, was food for thought. I’ll keep my eyes open for that one.



    Missy @missy


    Thank you so much for responding, I was beginning to think that I was invisible – only joking. I didn’t notice any comment from @ichabod, but then there were so many posts, and I’m not on here every day, that I tried to speed read. Obviously NOT a good idea as I missed it. Yes, indeed, it’s a brilliant plot and it seems as though everyone of us likes it. No, I haven’t seen the next one it’s on tonight, my recorder is all set up to receive it, and the chat thingy afterwards. Don’t you think that the panel, the presenter in particular, is a little silly?  Or is it just me? I’d love to know what the gold spirals are all about, perhaps nothing? Simply a red herring?

    Thank you again,


    Redlemons @redlemons

    I am so enjoying Bill. Watching episode 2 for the second time. Her views on things are wonderful. “Do you have stretchy arms like Mr. Fantastic?  You never thought to bring the seats closer,” that was great!  Why hasn’t he thought of that. What, what, what is his oath? This is going to be a great season.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    Hang in there!  If my experience is anything to go by the dry eye does clear up eventually.  The first eye to be done was much the worse affected and the syndrome lasted about six weeks. With the other eye it was, as I said, only a problem first thing when I woke in the morning.  Hypromelose, incidentally, is the active ingredient in the eye drops my pharmacist recommended, not the brand name, and they were quite different from the medicated drops prescribed by the ophthalmic surgeon

    Anonymous @


    No probs. Mum used to like Rove McManus a lot in the old days 🙂 He used to have his own show on Channel 10. A chat show. One of the tennis players – one of the doubles guys was/is his best friend and was there for Rove when his (Rove’s) wife died. Anyway, funny you should mention it but it was Rove who interviewed David Bowie ( which there’s a  lot of talk about on the other thread and the music thread) and got a lot of good stuff from the Man!

    I haven’t watched the aftershow -too busy studying. Mum might have though.

    Thank you, Thane

    geoffers @geoffers

    Well, in the moment when the Doctor hesitates as he reaches out to wipe Bill’s memory, the music which we hear is Clara’s theme

    As I have maintained throughout, all the evidence suggests that his memory of Clara has been not been completely obliterated – possibly because the neural block had been configured initially for a human brain, and she may not have been completely successful in ‘reversing the polarity’.  He can no longer recall what she looked or sounded like, or how he felt about her; he can no longer *see* her.  When he was talking to her in the diner, though, he could remember details of at least some of their adventures together, including the events which led up to his decision to use the neural block on her and the reason for the decision, which was to protect her.  There is still a subliminal memory which can be evoked by certain situations or trigger events.


    ah, thank you for the “clara”fication, on the music! i was pretty good at recognizing the music cues back in smith’s run, but i’ve gotten them all jumbled up in my brain since. therefore, i didn’t even recognize clara’s theme…

    the second part of your comment brings up another connection, though. wiping his own memory of clara has left a “clara-shaped” hole in the doc’s memory, just like deleting himself from history left a “doctor-shaped” hole in the universe during smith’s run. so, he should be able to build up a profile of who this missing memory person is, just from the contextual things he still remembers! such a nice thematic callback to my favourite doctor (though i really do love capaldi for his portrayal, the writing for his first two series just hasn’t held up, so far, the way it did for smith, overall)…


    Anonymous @


    Hasn’t held up? 🙂 Noooo!  Seriously, I understand what you’re saying, though.

    I think it has held up quite well, personally. It was certainly “dark” (Lordy, is that word overused!) but certainly, whilst I’ve adored The Pilot and Smile, my son, Thane is pining for Series 8 and in particular 9: his sadness is connected to a feeling that it will never reach those particular depths in character ‘accession’ . It was certainly sinister and angst-ridden but being 13 or 14, then, he was spellbound. He preferred Smile to The Pilot not just with respect to its creepiness but also its rather obvious connection to our forthcoming ANZAC Day and the various docos discussing Australian -indigenous Australian -involvement in the war. There was a scent of that, at least, in Smile and there were moments of silent commemoration which we recognised retrospectively.

    The musical connections to The Pilot are extremely interesting -the Gallifreyan theme, River’s, Beethoven, etc make an appearance and there are a few tubas, I noticed, burping their way through the most intense plot points!  Nice to hear these underrated instruments making an appearance occasionally.


    Puro and Thane

    Anonymous @

    in case anyone makes the mistake of checking internet reviews on youtube, be aware of the ‘Did it Suck?’ review.

    My particular gripe was the reviewer claiming all “of the music in this episode was re-used” together with “why would Nardole leave a smelly poo if he’s a droid? Lazy writing!”

    Big Sigh. If I was all over youtube making comments, I’d offer the gentleman an invite to this glorious forum where snarky ‘nick-picking’ is avoided. I think @craig added, above, the interview with Capaldi, Moffat, Mackie and Minchin where there was some discussion about on-line bullying? I stress the strength of our own Forum and our good fortune.

    It’s rare for us to come out and say: “I hated Clara, thank god, she’s gone” which is then (in interweb speak), click bait with 1004 ‘likes’ etc. Here we welcome people who loved Rose and Tennant, weren’t thrilled with Clara’s Impossible Girl concept but are ‘on board’ enough to respect others’ views; have their opinions challenged (respectfully) and interrogate a trope causing others to reach, perhaps, a new conclusion.

    I never take for granted what we have on this site -I think other Aussies like @janetteb and @missy (as well as ex-pats!) would agree.

    I know it’s a lot of work @craig,  but it’s worthwhile. Speaking to another mate on the site, we said our views have often changed after reading other arguments. The erudition is striking as is the love of learning. Thane often says to his mates: “if not for this site my love of Who wouldn’t be the same, I’d never have watched Sherlock or known about Joss Whedon. My writing has improved, I now read actual books, I’ve learnt about History  [@mudlark] & new music [@Whisht @pedant @arbutus ].”

    Thank you @craig and the mods. I hope we make your job easier when we’re appreciative of others. Also for putting up with me writing the word ‘certainly’ to @geoffers three times in as many sentences. I blame youtube! *-_-*

    Kindest, Puro and Thane.

    geoffers @geoffers


    “hasn’t held up” is just my opinion, of course! i think the writing is still at a high level for capaldi’s run, but even the last smith series started showing some cracks. i’ve always blamed moffat, for dividing his time between who and sherlock, and spreading his genius a bit too thinly…

    but smithdoc had some quite dark moments, too, so i don’t think it’s just on the regeneration trauma that they went for with capdoc. there was that comical/whimsical face that smith put on over his inner turmoil, that capaldi has slowly been growing into (with little nods, like how nardole commented that he does get quite silly, sometimes). maybe capdoc just veered too far away from my favourite portrayal (smith’s), and that’s why i feel the way i do? not let down, necessarily, but less connected to the character, perhaps?

    i’m glad, though, that we all connect as deeply as we do, in our differing ways. that’s a testament to the power of the show, in general, that it can be so many things for so many viewers, on so many levels. and i think it keeps surviving (and thriving) because of that fluidity/malleability of concept…


    geoffers @geoffers


    Also for putting up with me writing the word ‘certainly’ to @geoffers three times in as many sentences. I blame youtube! *-_-*

    i certainly didn’t even notice that! 😛

    Anonymous @


    Oh, yes you did! You’re being kind. Honestly, the innernet, hey? I was just on a link from a member here to do with Lucy Allan and her wish to remove 30 pounds from those most in need and I was SO close to making a comment: thank goodness I didn’t. That’s why I have Thane! He’s my better angel, always sitting on my shoulder sayin’ “mum, ignore that.” Considering at 15, most of his mates eat lunch whilst texting, texting whilst in class, or at sport, texting whilst walking etc etc I think I’m pretty lucky to have him 😀

    Thank you geoffers -also, I don’t know if I ever said, but I love that avatar. I used to have a ‘firey’ Ilion one which unfortunately came out so dark one couldn’t see the Greek pyre -hence fireofilion, when I first joined. Yours, however, is so clear! But I’m  waaaay off topic now…..mod alert……>

    <diving behind sofa>

    ichabod @ichabod

    @thane15   [of the writing in S8-9]  I think it has held up quite well, personally. It was certainly “dark” (Lordy, is that word overused!) but certainly, whilst I’ve adored The Pilot and Smile, my son, Thane is pining for Series 8 and in particular 9: his sadness is connected to a feeling that it will never reach those particular depths in character ‘accession’ . It was certainly sinister and angst-ridden but being 13 or 14, then, he was spellbound.

    So was I — still am.  Maybe lots of people get a version of their own adolescent angst back in their seventies!  As or depth of character, that does seem right for S10, at least.  In a way, S8-9 was quite mercilessly focused on the internal struggles of the two leads, which I think is what took us to those depths, if we willing and able to go there.  I do get a very weird feeling about S10 — that it’s where Capaldi and Moffat *thought* they were going to go from the outset, but — is it both of them being Scots?  <ggg>  Drawn, I mean, toward a dour slant on life — anyway, that’s not what happened, because they both needed to get *that* quite adult Doctor out of their systems, while they still had Coleman to work with.  Now — that’s all put to bed, except for an echo here and there, and we’re seeing more external adventures — lots of plot/explanations, and at least an effort to blow something up, in “Smile”.

    I’m not saying the Doctor could or should continue in the darker vein of anxious introspection of the previous seasons; but I am saying that I, too, miss that tone, even though I’m enjoying this lighter, brighter Doctor very much.  Moffat did pave the way for him in the toned-down, accepting Doctor at the end of THoRS.  In this series, I feel as if they’re going where they originally thought they were going with S8.  Some comments I’ve seen suggest that the other way round would have worked better for more fans than the darker 8/9 did.

    But I also wonder whether maybe part of Capaldi’s decision to leave at the end of S10 is about missing those darker depths himself, and feeling unable to muster sufficient enthusiasm for never touching those character depths again under a new show runner/writer . . . I think he said (on Graham Norton?) something along the lines of, “How many times can you say, [insert a line like ‘I just reversed the polarity of the neutron stream’] without phoning it in?”  Iconic figures have iconic lines.  Well, that’s a bit bonkers, I’m sure . . .

    Drat.  And it probably belongs in the “Smile” discussion?  Anyway, as I pretty much expected, I’m enjoying S10 so far — but nostalgic for the emotional maelstrom of 8 and the doomed trajectory of 9; and very interested in how fans react to the tonal shift in S10.


    Anonymous @


    Now — that’s all put to bed, except for an echo here and there, and we’re seeing more external adventures — lots of plot/explanations, and at least an effort to blow something up, in “Smile”.

    I’m not saying the Doctor could or should continue in the darker vein of anxious introspection of the previous seasons; but I am saying that I, too, miss that tone, even though I’m enjoying this lighter, brighter Doctor very much.  Moffat did pave the way for him in the toned-down, accepting Doctor at the end of THoRS..

    Indeed, “spot on.”

    I really loved the way you wrote that as well as the reference to an “emotional maelstrom” and a “doomed trajectory.”

    Definitely a tonal shift -I remember an old lecturer of mine speaking of “Western tonal systems and Non Western atonality” and I’m getting that here. As if everything is completely different. Because it is! What you wrote really summed up that exquisite journey for me beautifully. Thank you.

    Capaldi possesses a quality which enables him to enter wretched depths of the divine madness as well as triumphant redemption like no other -for me. He has that presence or ‘Parousia.’ Not to get too biblical: “the whole creation groaneth in travail.”

    I’m reminded of Athanasius’, “God became man in order [so] we become God” turned into:
    The Doctor became mortal, so that we become the Doctor  -and we see this through Clara. She was the conduit or the ‘individual present;’ our pivot point in understanding the Doctor’s incarnation, his reasons for self-reflection and raging internal debate. She had to leave him. Through the Doctor’s birth labour (and the reversed mind wipe) our own labour’s immanent and active in the present world.

    Now, he’s no longer alienated (forgive the pun); he’s not off-world and has a promise to keep…There’s momentum as well as a brake, carefully applied.

    I’m loving it!



    Anonymous @

    @geoffers OK, it was @ichabod -but actually both of you as I used that springboard to travel myself.  😀

    Even when editing this, you’d receive the initial 1st post in your email box and @geoffers would be thinking,  “you’re who now?”

    That’s why Thane’s around! He’s there to say “no, wrong person, mum!” He’s actually studying at the present. I know this because he’s memorising and therefore muttering, continually.


    Redlemons @redlemons

    In reading a couple of the post here about PC, I would really like to comment. He is not my favorite Doctor as I have stated earlier but it may be that I want to be entertained when watching DW. I found the previous episodes with Clara brooding. Terrible that I want my soul lifted by a fictional character? Maybe …  In the Pilot I finally found him delightful. Now after Smile, I know I will miss him. I am now looking at him differently.  We all have up and down years. And after watching the you tube interview, it’s good to know that PC is a fan and not a student, just like me.

    ichabod @ichabod

    @thane15  You’re welcome, Puro — I have to say, I appreciate so much having this forum on which to think about these things “out loud”, and in such good company.  That’s made this stretch of DW (Moffat/Capaldi) especially rich for me (and, I think, for others — not just a fascinating series, but excellent conversation around it as well).

    And then I have to go look up “Parousia”, and that takes me to a page that pops up first is “something or other”, and now I’ll be getting stuff from persons of the Evangelical persuasion (pardon me, but Oy, vey).  Well, now I have an inkling of what it means — “presence after absence, but not a return”; the arrival of a king at a place; manifestation of the spiritual in physical form (only?  or ralso just a sense of presence?).  Which includes, on that page, manifestation of Ancient Greek gods (Asclepius is given as an example).  (Have I got your intended meaning, Puro?)

    PC can do that.  He did it, literally, as far back as “Crow Road”, playing the protagonist’s “disappeared” uncle Rory.  Malcolm Tucker is idealism deeply betrayed into fierce cynicism (but still in there buried deep — and betrayed again, at the end of TToI).  Maybe it’s the super-power of gifted actors, unevenly distributed and unevenly received — for some, this Doctor connected brilliantly in S8-9; for some others, not (or, not at first, or only now and then, and so on).  Jenna played us, if we were willing to see ourselves in Clara’s strong, ambitious, but conflicted and mercurial nature.  Moffat provided the score.  Not bad.

    Hey, “The Leftovers” is back, start of the final season — do you get that show in Oz?







    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    We all know that Peter Capaldi is quite the talented artist but it turns out that Heather is no slouch herself. Really liked this.



    Oh that’s really nice.

    ichabod @ichabod

    @redlemons  I found the previous episodes with Clara brooding

    Yes, they were.

    Terrible that I want my soul lifted by a fictional character? Maybe … In the Pilot I finally found him delightful. Now after Smile, I know I will miss him.

    Nothing terrible about that!  The Doctor is for everybody over-all (all, that is, TV watchers who love SF/F and DW in particular), just not everybody at the same time.  I’m glad to hear that it has clicked for you now, because you are part of the audience they’re looking for in S10 — so enjoy!

    Anonymous @

    He has that presence or ‘Parousia


    Yes, indeed, you have. Presence. Place and it depends whether it’s Homeric or Athenian Greek, but it’s “place whither” -although a Homeric scholar will say, “no” but we’re close enough with “presence.”

    Haven’t seen Leftovers yet. Will very soon. The modem…leads to Netflix…leads to much fun.

    Need a new modem. Haven’t quite got there yet!


    Missy @missy


    A member (sorry can’t remember who) said that they thought that PC tried to hard, at least to start with. I don’t agree, he was right into the part from the very first moment you met him, he just clicked. Although I liked MS ( I liked all of them) it was he, in my opinion, who was trying too hard at first. I was astonished that you didn’t think these episodes ‘didn’t hold up’ compared to MS’s series, but then we are all entitled to our opinions on here. 🙂

    Puro and Thane.: Actually, I’m English by birth,  just been here a very long time. but I take your comment as a compliment. *very big smile*

    @thane15:   Puro :             “Capaldi possesses a quality which enables him to enter wretched depths of the divine madness as well as triumphant redemption like no other -for me. He has that presence or ‘Parousia.’ Not to get too biblical: “the whole creation groaneth in travail.”

    My sentiments exactly, and I too am loving every minute of it.

    @redlemons:    “it’s good to know that PC is a fan and not a student, just like me.”

    And me.

    @jimthefish: Clever, thank you for that.

    Missy @missy


    Thank you for your encouragement, I shall indeed hang in there. They are improving every day – as long as i wear dark glasses whilst on this machine. With me it is the second eye which has given me most trouble. I’ve made a note of the drops mentioned by you.


    geoffers @geoffers


    I was astonished that you didn’t think these episodes ‘didn’t hold up’ compared to MS’s series

    it’s not intended as a knock against peter, at all, he’s fabulous with what the writers have given him (all the nuwho guys have been equally terrific in that respect). i just think the overall vision of the series was stronger and more cohesive for smith, vs the recent years for capaldi. and i blame moffat, for allocating a bit too much time for other things (looking at you, sherlock!). it’s a tiny drop off in quality, but it’s there for me, nonetheless.

    as for our differing opinions, well, this forum would be rather stale if we all agreed on everything! i’m just glad that everyone who disagrees with me, does so in such a nice way… 😀

    Anonymous @

    @geoffers I see where you’re coming from, definitely.

    it’s not intended as a knock against peter, at all, he’s fabulous with what the writers have given him (all the nuwho guys have been equally terrific in that respect). i just think the overall vision of the series was stronger and more cohesive for smith,

    I agree totally. It’s a terrific place because we can hold different opinions. No fun in agreement anyway: And also I see exactly where you’re coming from. I still think that incredible first look at Mat Smith (Doc12?) was the best ever. Alive and fresh. But you need the ‘ups’ to know the sad stuff. Things went one way with Mr Moffat and now they’re going the other so I guess the best question is:  “what’s next?”

    From Thane.


    Missy @missy

    @geoffers:  I didn’t think that for a moment, it’s obvious that you admire PC as a n actor. 🙂  I cannot agree about Steven Moffat however, but that is what this forum is for, listening to others opinions, even if/when we don’t agree.

    @thane15: What is next indeed – exciting innit!


    geoffers @geoffers

    @thane15  @missy

    and once we’ve learned “what’s next?” then it’s on to “who next?”

    from the “ups” to even sadder stuff…


    Redlemons @redlemons

    Not sure if anyone posted this before but could Bill be a relative of Jenny? Can’t imagine that Jenny is floating around out there and never tried to find dad. Maybe hearing he is on earth follows him there and falls in love. Ok I am a dreamer and its probably out in left field.

    myth96 @myth96

    So I’m relatively new to the forum, but I personally thought this was a great starting episode for a new series and especially one for a new companion. Nothing over the top or wildly daring, but still a solid episode overall. I’m really curious about the big vault and I’m also excited to see a little more of Nardole.

    I can’t help but think of the Pandorica when they showed the vault. I haven’t heard many theories, but the craziest one I’ve heard is that his next incarnation (13) is actually inside the vault (for whatever reason). Not sure how much supporting evidence there is for this (probably extraordinarily little) but still something cool to consider.

    gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar

    <span class=”useratname”>@myth96</span>

    First, welcome to the forum, it’s always nice to see more people join. I just wanted to say that I agree with you about this episode being a fine and solid episode and was a good start for Bill and that it wasn’t over the top. I didn’t think of the Pandorica when I saw the vault, that’s a good comparison. I don’t know why number 13 would be in the vault but you’re right, it’s neat to consider.

    I think that this was a good introduction for Bill and so far I like her. I hope to see Smile soon so I can see more of her character.

    Rob @rob


    Welcome back Doctor Who 😀

    Haven’t seen episode 2 yet, as per usual working away from home, my wife is beginning to forget what I look like.

    Episode 1 we both enjoyed greatly and she watches because I’m a Who Fan

    More red herrings in that episode than you can shake a stick at or maybe his office was simply a memory box stuffed full of good things. The raven was Clara, channelled through Ashilda ….. there you go a triple espresso inspired mad theory

    Will be playing catch up this weekend.

    Thank you all for the comments I’ve read through all of them and as per usual feel very very stooopid

    Must dash the percolator is bubbling 😀

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